The Gap
Most hard-working Americans are not saving enough for retirement and will come up short. Even with all of the focus over the past decades, most Americans don't have access to an employer sponsored retirement plan, or aren't adequately saving in their existing plan. This equates to a sizable GAP in American's retirement savings. Get ready for a dose of insightful conversations with Shannon Edwards and her expert guests as they explore innovative strategies to bridge the retirement savings gap. Whether you're an employer, benefits manager, or a financial advisor looking to excel in the retirement plan arena, listening in will help you unlock the secrets to closing The GAP and stay ahead of the future!
The Gap
Apryl Pope, CFP: Closing Retirement Gaps Through Education and Empowerment
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What if your money weren’t a source of stress, but instead a tool that gave you clarity and confidence about the future?
This episode invites you to rethink how you approach financial planning—not as a rigid checklist of savings and investments, but as a way to design the life you want. You’ll hear how simple shifts in perspective can help you uncover overlooked resources, make smarter decisions, and finally take the weight of financial chaos off your shoulders. If you’ve ever felt like you’re juggling too much and falling behind on preparing for the future, this conversation will give you practical ways to get back in control.
Our guest, Apryl Pope, is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ who serves as a personal CFO for high-achieving women. With over a decade of experience, she helps clients organize, automate, and simplify their financial lives so they can stop spinning their wheels and start building toward their goals. Her path into financial services was shaped by her own experience of financial disorganization, which gave her a deep empathy for the struggles many people face. Beyond her client work, Apryl has taught financial literacy in schools, served in the Peace Corps in South Africa, and held leadership roles in nonprofits and professional organizations. Her passion is not only about helping individuals secure their futures but also about creating a ripple effect of financial wellness that strengthens families, workplaces, and communities.
In this episode, Shannon and Apryl Pope discuss:
- The importance of financial planning and literacy for individuals and families
- Challenges and gaps in retirement savings and access to financial resources
- The role of service, education, and mentorship in empowering communities
- Strategies for creating financial security and designing a meaningful life
Key Takeaways:
- Getting organized financially—by securing insurance, estate documents, and a debt payoff plan—before a crisis hits can mean the difference between peace of mind and devastation when life throws unexpected challenges.
- Regularly reviewing overlooked assets like stock options or employee benefits can unlock life-changing opportunities, such as eliminating debt and freeing up income to build long-term financial security.
- Broadening your perspective on money through service, cultural exposure, or volunteering can reshape how you view wealth, teaching you to reduce stress by focusing on meaningful living instead of chasing arbitrary financial milestones.
- Rather than fixating on hitting a retirement number or age, you can design your next chapter around the lifestyle you want—then align your finances to make that vision possible, whether it means starting a business, traveling, or simply reducing expenses.
"What I don’t want to do is send you home wit
Welcome to the gap, a podcast designed exclusively for financial advisors and employers seeking to enhance their retirement plan operates and bridge the gap in America's retirement security. We taught the change makers to dive into innovative strategies, compliance updates, and best practices to help you provide top-notch retirement solutions, stay ahead of the future, and ensure a secure financial future for all Americans. Here's your host, Shannon Edwards.
SPEAKER_02Hello, I am Shannon Edwards, your host and the owner of TriStar Fensure Consulting. I would like to welcome all listeners to our podcast with a special welcome to those of you listening for the first time. I started this podcast because I have a passion for helping Americans achieve a dignified retirement. By sharing innovative ideas, this podcast is designed to help close the gaps that America has in retirement savings and coverage. By doing so, we can improve the lives of working Americans. Today on The Gap, I'm excited to welcome April Pope, certified financial planner and the founder of Pope Financial Planning. April serves as a personal CFO for high-achieving women who are ready to stop DIYing their finances and start building a strategy that supports both the lives they're living today and the futures they're working toward. With more than a decade of experience, she specializes in helping clients bring clarity and confidence to their financial decisions. She helps them offload decision fatigue and organize financial chaos to bring calmness to both their present lives and their future goals. However, April's impact reaches well beyond her professional work with clients. April is passionate about making financial planning approachable and empowering for those who may feel overlooked or underserved. She devotes time to advancing financial literacy, mentoring other women in business, and serving in volunteer leadership roles that strengthen both her community and her profession. She has a long history of service and leadership in her community and beyond. Through all of this, April's focus is clear helping people move from overwhelmed to organized, from reactive to proactive, and from carrying the weight of financial decision making alone to finally breathing easier about their money. Her work focuses not only on helping clients secure their own futures, but also on creating a ripple effect of financial wellness in families, workplaces, and communities. April's passion for education, empowerment, and service make her uniquely equipped to help close the gap in financial literacy, retirement savings, and economic opportunity. Welcome to the gap, April. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Shannon. I'm super excited about this. Ever since I started my podcast, you were one of the first guests that I wanted to have on because I follow you a lot like on LinkedIn and stuff. And obviously I've known you for a while and you are so active in the community and in helping people. So let's get started. Um, first, can you please share with us your personal journey? What led you into financial planning, into this profession, and eventually to founding Pope Financial Planning?
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, that was an interesting journey. Uh, it started with being on the other side of everybody that I used to help. So, right, help. I was in their shoes. So uh it really started when we moved back to Cincinnati, Ohio. So I'm originally from Cincinnati. My husband and I were living in the DC area, had some kids, and needed to come home because we need to probably take care of these kids. We need some grandparents and stuff. So when we moved home, I took a year off and I was like looking at everything, and that's when I like kind of stumbled upon like this financial wellness and all this kind of stuff. And I looked at all of our stuff and I was like, we are a hot mess, like a hot mess. I'm like, we and we made good money, we all this, but we had no insurance, we had no trust estate planning, we had nothing. And I'm like, and now we have two little humans dependent on us. So I had way too much time in my hand. I was on maternity leave and I just started like reading everything. Uh, fell into the whole like Dave Ramsey kind of deal, read through all of that, and I was like, okay, we're doing all of this right now. So I did all of it, got did the whole get out of debt, sold everything, got all my estate planning, life insurance in order. And as I was going through that, um, I actually ended up getting thyroid cancer. Oh, I was at the hospital and I was like, the lady's like, Do you have your power returning in your healthcare? And I'm like, Yeah, actually I do. And I already had like great term insurance. I had all this stuff in place. And I'm like, yay me. Like I six months ago, I would have not had any of that in place. So when I realized that, I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm so glad I got this taken care of early before I needed it. And that kind of spun into when I was teaching at the time and went back to teaching um high school. I was like, I need to teach this to kids, I need to teach just the parents, I need to teach everybody. So I got it into the school district where I was as a course that was um I was teaching to seniors. And then I started volunteering during the evening for those parents of the school. And so I just found so much like joy and passion, and like it was just so fulfilling. I'm teaching, you know, calculus during the day, which I love calculus and honors out too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a math nerd, but I was like at night, I'm like really, I mean, people were coming to me and we're do we're helping them get out of bed, and like they have kids with diseases that they need to help save. I'm like, all this stuff, I'm like, wow, this is like impactful work. So I decided 10 years ago, it's been 10 years in business, is when I decided to go ahead and do that full time, got all my licenses, um, started helping everybody. And 10 years fast forward, here I am.
SPEAKER_02It goes fast, right?
SPEAKER_04Real fast.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it goes real fast. It just that's how, because we've been, I've been in business. Um, I started TriStar over 25 years ago, and I feel like I'm still just 25. I'm like, how did I like how did I start a business 25 years ago? And I'm already over the age of 50 and a grandma.
SPEAKER_03So you look great, and you look great. So it's been treating you well.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, thank you. Um, so you describe yourself as a personal CFO for high achieving women. What inspired you to focus on serving this specific group? And how does that connect to the bigger picture of closing financial gaps?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a really good question. I feel like I wear two hats because I do have like two different ways that I work with folks. And so with, I'm working with everyday Americans that are trying to retire. I also do retirement plans. So, you know, that business that I'm in, that's where I'm working with. Anybody boots on the ground, I'm a retirement plan advisor, I'm sitting one-on-one with all employees. And so that is where I do majority of like my everybody homework. Yeah. My other part is really the quote financial planning. That's my private wealth and financial planning. So I only have so much time in the day. And so what I after working with so many people and figuring out like who can I really make the biggest change for? So it's like I can help anyone. Like I have, you know, but I only have so many hours in the day. So I looked at who I enjoyed working with the most, but also who had the biggest transformations and who I could really like, I feel like I was doing life-changing work. And it was this group that just really values the time, needs the expertise, has the resources. And because I do a lot of nonprofit work and I'm involved in a lot of nonprofit, a lot of my clients are as well. So I see it as I'm helping them get their lives together. We're setting up, you know, don't advise funds. So they also can fund their charities and other things like that. So it's like I'm not just making an impact in their personal lives because I'm freeing up that time and those resources and making sure they can retire and they're okay. Now they who have a lot of resources can pass that forward to other things that are important in the world. So it was a way to like kind of it's like two ways to get into like helping them so they can continue past repaying it.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. And you're right. You know, I talk all the time to people about like our industry and retirement plans and the fact that we do change lives on a daily basis. My husband will laugh at me because I'm so passionate about it. He's like, you're, I mean, like, you're not operating on somebody's heart. Like, look, nobody's nobody's bleeding out and you're stopping to bleeding. I'm like, I know, but it's it's that important. The way we change lives every day is what keeps me like pulling up to the office every morning and walking in and crunching some numbers. So uh anyway, I totally get it. Um we want to be saving lives on the line, but we're definitely changing them. We are definitely changing them. And I would argue saving them, honestly. Looking back, were there any defining moments or catalysts, whether in your career, your volunteer work, or your personal life, that just really influenced your path into financial services? I know you mentioned because you had two kids and you kind of wanted to get your act together, but what else kind of really influenced you as you were deciding to start Pope Financial and really starting to dig in to being a financial planner, not only a financial planner, but teaching all the financial wellness and really working with people.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I don't know if it was a specific moment or event, but just working one-on-one and like you said, realizing you're changing lives. So when you it comes easy to us, we're in the industry, it comes easy to us. I'm also an educator, like that's what my degree is in teaching. Right. So this is a skill and a gift that I have that just naturally comes easy to me. So when I'm thinking, oh, I'm just sitting here talking with a couple people, I'm doing these things, and then they come back, or then you see a change and you're like, oh my gosh, they're like, and you say these things and you gotta be careful what you say to people, because I've done some things and give some advice, and they're like, oh my God, we sold our house and completely moved and didn't all have like, oh, did we really like? I didn't need to do all that.
SPEAKER_05They're like, yeah, but you said it, it was a great idea. And I'm like, wow, I better be careful what I suggest. I'm gonna make sure I do the right thing.
SPEAKER_04Um, I am, but it's like though when you see people's lives, like you can see it. And because I mostly, I mean, we do have clients, you know, across the country, but the majority of ours are are local. So I literally can see some of the changes or I see thanks to social media, like you can see they started these these college funds, and now their kids are going to college and they're pulling from them, um, where they're doing things that they want to do. They finally got out of their job and started their own business because they had some savings aside to be able to do it. So I'm it's the results. It's the results that you're just like, and for teaching, I mean, usually you don't see results. I mean, nobody, yeah, we taught, you know, exams or whatever, but nobody's like, wow, you know, Miss Pope, your algebra skills like changed my whole life. Like, how do I want to say that? Like, it might have helped them in college, but um, this is like really, you know, really results that that keep me, that's what keeps me, you know, going into the office every day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so that's awesome. And I I love that you teach adults too, because so oftentimes, you know, so few states really and so few school districts require any type of financial literacy or financial wellness. So I think that so many times we see parents who aren't educated in financial wellness. So they can't even teach their kids about that, right? Or they're afraid to even discuss it with them because they feel like they don't have the knowledge base. So I love the fact that you're teaching the parents too, so that we can start building a stronger base. Honestly, I know Petrus Kmantros was on my last podcast, and that was one thing we were talking about is just needing to reach these kids so much earlier than we do now, and their parents who who don't have any idea.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, you're right. Because I mean, they can't talk about it at home. And I don't, I don't make anybody feel bad. I don't feel guilty. We didn't learn it. I don't know about you. We didn't learn anything. Oh, so like it's not like you just fell asleep during financial wellness class, like it wasn't there. So it's like, you know, get rid of that guilt. It's okay. Let's start now. What can we do better?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because back then I just took economics. I didn't take financial wellness. I mean, I had the benefit of having a a father who was a CPA and a mentor at his office that was closer to my age and like took me under her wings and was like, okay, you're 18. You need to start saving in our SARSAP. And I was like, what is a SARS? What is that?
SPEAKER_05Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_02So, but I I mean I lucked out. So um, what you know, a lot of financial advisors don't focus on retirement plans. I mean, you've seen it in our industry that there's not a lot of financial advisors who focus on retirement plans. Um, a lot of them find it easier to focus on individual wealth. So, what made you lean into retirement plans? Because a lot of advisors will tell you it's just too hard. I don't make enough money on them after when you start them. It takes forever for it to really pay off. So, what made you lean into those?
SPEAKER_04Yes, uh, very specific reasons. So, again, I did not come from this industry, I'm not brought up in this industry at all. So, I have a completely different lens. I'm just like, okay, how what's the most efficient way to help the most amount of people? So, when I started coaching and doing my business in the beginning, obviously I'd have to, people would have to pay to work with me. Yeah. And then it's like all the people you want to help, they can't afford you. So I'm like, oh my gosh. So I'm, you know, I get my credentials. I'm like, I'm a certified financial planner, I'm gonna go help the world. Like, but the world can't afford, right? People can't afford to hire a personal CFO, a certified financial planner. So I went to a Napa conference, uh NAPA summit, and it was, I don't know, eight, 10 years ago. And I don't even know how I ended up there. Honestly, I shouldn't have a plan. I don't even know. So I got there and I was like, oh, like you could do this through like the workplace. I was like, aha, I figured this out. I have the employer, they have money, they can pay it. So if I have that employer pay me, now I just can actually do my where I can help everybody. So it seemed like a no-brainer. It was like, and it was also when my kids were younger, so I was like, I couldn't do that. I wanted to do nine to five, not five to nine. No, like I wanted to do nine. And that's kind of what plans were. So I was like, these people work during the day. Um, HR and and I usually I love my favorite clients are really nonprofits. Um, so again, I'm doing that same double thing. So they're doing good work on the front line, so I can make sure I'm working with them. And they have budgets to be able to afford it. So I'm like, great, I can get paid and I can also just pass this along. And that's part of my selling point. And a lot of the plans I feel like that I won have been like, oh, well, we have a CFP available at to all of our employees. And they do. I they use it, they ask me everything. I have chat with CFP nights, you know, once a quarter, like we we do it all. But that was the thing. I was like, I can leverage somebody else paying for me to be able to help everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think it's so important, you know, when I'm talking to financial advisors, especially newer advisors, um, because that's something that I do in my firm a lot is like train financial advisors on 401k plans, right? On the technical side of it. And I know when I'm talking to them, I'm like, you do not understand how important you are to these employees, because a lot of them will never be able to afford a financial advisor on their own. And you are the only financial advisor they will ever know. So, you know, if you take care of them and and do right by them, I mean, it's going to change their lives.
SPEAKER_04Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's it. And so they will never, it's most of them won't ever work with a financial advisor outside of their 401k advisor.
SPEAKER_02So it's important work. It is, it is. Um, over your career, you've helped women move from financial overwhelm to clarity and confidence. Can you share a success story or an example of your impact, the impact your work has done in one of your clients' life?
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, that's a good question. Two come to mind. One I was just uh on a call with this morning. Oh, yeah, that's I'm trying to think. Like, okay, so well, let me go with the first one that came to mind. The first one that came to mind, this is, and it has to do a little bit with like a workplace plan. This is a client, she works with me individually. So we're doing all the things. I'm working on retirement planning and estate planning and uh risk management. We're doing all the things. And then it comes to her, are you on track for retirement? So I'm starting to look at her benefits. And she's like, I don't really know. I've been working with this company for all these years. I have all these things. I don't know what an ISO is. You know, she has a stock options, RG. She's like, I don't know what any of this means. And she had some a decent amount of credit card debt that was kind of in her way, but makes great money, right? For sure. I like just send me everything, of course. She uploads everything to the vault.
SPEAKER_05I'm looking at it and I'm like, girlfriend, you have almost a hundred thousand dollars in incentive stock options right now that you literally can take off and pay off like your house and all of your debt, like all of your debt.
SPEAKER_04You can be debt-free from this statement. You had no idea what it meant. Like she just like keeping this paper. I don't know what this paper means. Nobody says anything at work, and the person that comes in, I can never schedule. And so she literally had the keys to being debt free in a box of statements that she's just been shoving on, and she's like, What? So I took it, you know, we came back and explained what it was, you know, of course, all the tax benefits, all the kind of things. But when you looked at all of it, it made, I mean, it changed, like she was in tears. Like, and she won. Like, this was this year, so she's done. Like, they've been exercised, they've been in her account, everything's paid off. She is done. So now her paycheck has been rescued. She's able to help her parents, she's able to do all this other stuff that money was just like bleeding out of her budget. And all along she had the solution right at home, but just didn't know. Right. That's the kind of stuff we geek out and nerd over on that kind of stuff. I'm like, what? This is this is simple. Like, this is to me, it's simple. So t sharing that information is like it's just it's a gold mine. Like, oh my god, I really helped uncover this. I'm like super tired. I could wait it. I think I was looking at it like nine o'clock at night. I'm like, okay, I cannot eat over like I was like, okay, I'll wait till the morning.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I mean, things like that happen every day. That's awesome. Um, you've also made significant contributions through service from the Peace Corps in South Africa to supporting individuals experiencing homelessness at Mary Magdalene House. How have these volunteer experiences shaped your perspective on financial planning and equity?
SPEAKER_04Ooh, man. Um yeah, if we start with Peace Corps, that kind of shaped like just seeing and living outside of the states and seeing just how a lot of the rest of the world lives. Um that kind of shaped just really who I was. So not necessarily like my financial planning, but just kind of how everything that I do. Um and also is why I got into education. So I'm still in education. So I think serving in the Peace Corps, living in South Africa, that was two and a half years of my life, living with my host mom and family who like retirement's not was not a thing. Like they don't even, that's not even a thing. Uh like you work forever, and then it's actually pretty cool. You work forever until you can't, and then your kids bring their kids there, and then you watch the kids while your grandma, while the child can go out and work and help bring money home. And then it's like just the cycle, and then you get old and your kids take care of you, and the cycle just continues. So it's like a beautiful way of living. Um, it's not what we have here, right? All multi-generational households and all this kind of stuff. But what I wanted to bring back was that was like it's a there's different stresses in developing countries, don't get me wrong. Sure. Stress of like retiring and working all this hard work and you know, like, when am I ever gonna be done? That wasn't there. It was like a it was this way of just enjoying life and the cycle of life and continuing that. So, like, how can we enjoy life? And we talk about this coverage gap some savings gap. It's like, I think we're just too stressed about like the wrong thing, and we don't even know what we're trying to work for, trying to get to 65 and have a bucket of money. Like, that is not the game plan. So I think that kind of helps shape of like how can I make just making your life better and and reducing stress. Because that was one of the best times of my life living there. I mean I was broke, had no money, but I mean, I was like so much, and it was great.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I loved it.
SPEAKER_04Um, but I've always been service. So that started, I've always done service, I'm on nonprofit boards. The Mary Magdalene house, like that is one of my favorite things to do. I got introduced to them when I was teaching at uh the local high school where I just started about bringing this stuff. Um, it was a local school here that we did work with them. And then I was like, I just love it. I just love it. So, like again, I want to help everybody. I can't help not everybody needs a financial planner. But what I saw there was people that were experiencing homelessness, like I went down twice a week at that time and did laundry. So they had a facility where they didn't come in, like they only have one set of clothes. We'd wash them, give them a fresh set, and then they come back the next day and get them. And so again, it's just a little part that like you can go and make somebody's life better, they smile, they can come in and take a shower and shave and do all those kind of things and then go on about their way. It's not perfect or it makes you sad about our whole system, but that's another story. But at least like, what can I do to, you know, there's a little bit of guilt of like I'm working with people that can pay me, but like I still have to, I gotta have my hands in some right. So that's how I can still stay connected. So I'm not just, you know, working with CEOs and CFOs all day long. Um but it's good work. I still want to have my hands, hands on my ground too.
SPEAKER_02Sure, sure. No, I do that as I do something similar with a group here called Infant Crisis Services, and I was able, they actually had a teen board. Um, I used to teach a service learning class, my kids' um school, where I would teach the class and teach them about different service opportunities because they were required to have service hours. And so I I started to get to know infant crisis and was able to actually get my kids and lots of my friends' kids involved there, and still to this day, my son is on. their young adult board and things like that. So and I know exactly what you mean. Like we still need, you know, our our service projects on top of of the work that we get to do every day.
SPEAKER_04Um and I'm going to write that one down infant services. Because I I feature a nonprofit in my newsletter every month.
SPEAKER_02So yeah infant crisis services they're amazing. And they're just a great group of people and they you know they serve babies who can't take care of themselves. So okay awesome I look into that. Thank you. Um today you're you're serving on the board of the Episcopal retirement services still, right? Um how does this leadership role allow you to make a broader impact in closing financial and retirement gaps in your community?
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah interesting I wasn't even thinking about ERS but very interesting story with them. I didn't know who they were when I got asked to be on their board I had to Google them. But once I did and I saw what they're doing so they provide like it's long-term care facilities depending on what it is continuing.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_04Basically they're serving um aging adults and in what I have realized in our industry is the middle the middle is left out there is something for people that can afford it can go to the amazing facilities. People that have no money can qualify for the other facilities everybody in the middle who we work with every day that's done a good job and mixed up at 41k and done the thing they can't afford the big one they'll too they have too much money for this they're left out. So it's called the middle market. And when I found out about what ERS is doing and what their passion project and what they are like the I mean they are like the first groundbreaking organization really doing this because they are building like literally going to read a breakground on a middle market solution. So it's something that American regular everyday working W-2 Americans that want to retire with dignity that we are we are like pounding all their this is who we want to help. Now there's going to be a solution for where they can go and afford for continuing care or if it's going to be long-term care or whatever services they need as they age. So it's that was like oh I will see this through like I'm super excited. I have clients where I can't even fit them. We're getting long-term care insurance and you're like I mean that's awesome but like what facility was gonna where can we even use this for? We have to like really look to be able to afford something. So they're they are really focused on that and that's their growth strategy. So I'm really excited to be a part of that and see that through.
SPEAKER_02Yeah no that's really awesome. That's great. And as I mentioned earlier I met you through both of our involvement with the American Retirement Association. Specifically your sister organization is the National Association of Plant Advisors. Mine is the American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries.
SPEAKER_03That's such a big mouthful yeah I know I know asthma is like I it I feel like I just learned what asthma stood for last year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah something something something yes exactly so I know that you've served on a few of their volunteer committees that fall um primarily under NAPA's umbrella such as Thrive Mentoring, uh NAPA 401k summit, the planning committee and the women in retirement conference which now we are calling RISE. Tell me what you've learned from your involvement in NAPA and the ARA as a whole I'm assuming you also do some of the advocacy work um on the NAPA side as well. So tell me what you've learned as far as being an active member and volunteer with with ARA.
SPEAKER_04What have I learned that we are all struggling with the same things and all in this together. And what I love about the sister organizations, I mean things like our relationship and people that like I wouldn't know you or all these other people like feel like I'm gonna really know them and can call if I have any questions. So what I feel like is it brings us together and we're all from different broker dealers, different you know professions, different everything, but we all are trying to do the same thing. And so when you realize that we all have the same mission, we have very we're very different people, but we have the same mission and when we come together and it's you can most of mine are like the women organizations that I'm a part of very passionate about that. We just can share everything. And so it's like making things move faster. We are sharing things and there's just there's zero competition. It's not like you know it's this is what I need help with who can I call they'll be like oh yeah you should call this person call this person they're gonna be able to help you. And so I see that I'm a part of that. I love it. You see people switching jobs and careers and moving with others like oh yeah that's the work connection like I remember you know making salsa with those ladies you know it's just like such a good uh I don't know it's like it is a sisterhood but it feels very welcoming. And so otherwise it's so big ARA is so big and all the different silos you know like why would I besides working with my TPA that I work with on you know like I've been working one I probably wouldn't talk to a bunch of other TPAs and have it have that experience with them in those relationships, but we do. So I think it's connecting us all and we have the same vision, have the same struggles and we're here to help each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and I think you know I've said it a lot I feel like we are so blessed in our industry because it is so collaborative versus cutthroat like so many other industries are.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And we all seem to have the same mission of just making this industry better as a whole and making people's lives better. And that just comes out you know that that mission of just wanting to give back and improve things just comes out in all of us and brings us such great collaboration. I just I feel so lucky to have found not only an organization but an industry as a whole to be a part of that encourages that and fosters that and builds that I just think it's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Yes I agree with you.
SPEAKER_04Have you gotten anything from your involvement with ARA like that you've taken back um you know things you've learned from other people that you've taken back that have helped you close some of those economic gaps in your own community hmm actually yeah one of the first presentations I ever did on this closing the gap the fifth uh 56% everything is African American don't have enough in retirement that whole I did an entire it started as an in-person seminar and then I did a webinar and then ARA had a brochure on this and it was like this weird trifold thing and I worked directly with them of like updating that and how we should do it and format it and I used that um took it to our local chamber and went worked with business owners in our local chamber here to like actually share this information. So I probably I think I might have been the only one that ordered like 150 of those and then I went to like Summit later and there were some more on the butt thing and I like left out with like a handful of them trying to shit it out. But it was this whole idea of like closing the gap and what's happening and being aware. So it was the it was specific statistics and they're different now but access to plans and also how many people have zero dollars in retirement and it was don't be the 56 that's what it was don't be the 56% and I think it was specifically it was you know African American families of this specific amount income level that have zero dollars in retirement. So it was like that's eye-opening like when we're saying like not a lot of people are ready people are ready for retirement no these people have nothing like right slowly zero dollars like let's start there like this is a real issue. So that's where I think I got the information out. And then when we talk with other different advisors and stuff we can do the nerd work behind the scene of like helping plann sponsors realize some of the benefits of auto enrollment and some of the so when I use that it's like why would I want to auto enroll I don't want to do that on a basis and it's like well what percentage of your employees have nothing in retirement? You're probably one of the reasons you know like in a nice way like right can't solve this with bland design you know we can we can be behind the scenes and taking that. Because if we just talk about it and share it and don't actually go to implement it, I mean like what are it's good to make you know bring awareness up but if we're not changing and and like you said plans are the way that change the most people at once. I can only work with so many people one. Yes. Planning one has 5,000 people and you get them to do auto enroll and auto escalate you talk about change lives. That's where you guys get a like the TK is like get that way that way a document is changing lives.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah no and I you're right I like I love to have the plan design discussion um especially with auto enroll now and now what I love too is it's not even a choice. Not even a choice. Not even a choice. Yeah I'm like remember I've been talking about this well now just so yeah no I and I love that we just this is what we're doing now so here you go. Reflecting on your career so far what lessons have you learned that you believe are most valuable for financial advisors, employers or even individuals working to secure their retirement lessons that are most valuable that's that's a big question.
SPEAKER_04I think I start with mindset or like what is it that you really want in thinking about that because I think a lot of guilt comes around am I ready? Can I do this? I read some half article that said I could take this percent out so I need this amount here. I think what you really need to do is think about you know what is your mindset? What does that next chapter look like? I don't even use retirement usually is the word like what are you ready next? And so when you really sit down with folks they're not nobody I don't have anybody that's gonna just stop working at 65 everything is going to stop both both income there everybody's gonna stop doing everything and just start spending all the money on the RRA. Like no that's not really what happens and so when you look at if I were thinking like what could I take away I would say design your life design what your life looks at that next page and don't think about a number like what age or whatever. What does it look like? I want I want to start a business I want to do this I want to have real estate I want to do this. Okay and then back into like where you are because in too many people are reading little bite-sized pieces and thinking they have to have this X amount of dollars in their account or they are not ever going to retire. That's not the case. That's just not the case. It's about how much you need to spend and then how can you turn have do you have some income to cover that? And then when can you make that happen? So I think designing your life around what you want and then matching the numbers up to make it work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I don't know I know you're a fan of Nevin and Fred as I am I don't know if you've listened to their new podcast where they interview people from our industry that are now actually in retirement. And I think one of the coolest things to listen to them is to listen to how the people they're interviewing like planned for what retirement was going to look like and you're right like design it how do you want it to look and even practice it you know I've heard them say one thing you know like Nevin's kind of practicing retirement right now, right? Fred, Fred is still full on working but Nevin's like practicing um and so I think that's so important right to to really design and to look out you know how far is it going to take me to to get that and then because I can't imagine just stopping work at 65 and never doing anything again. I mean I I love to play golf but not that much.
SPEAKER_04Not that I mean it's like yeah not that much no I like to go to the pool I have burn up if I stop like what are we going to do here? So no I think that's what the the the end goal is like what are you going to do next? Yeah exactly also like the practicing is a great great part of that. When we look at budgeting and stuff it's like okay what does it look like without you might hurry up and pay off your mortgage like you have all this extra money you might not even need all the things that you did your your pension and your social security might cover all your expenses. So it's really like how can you knock out some of those big bills so that you can get there a little bit earlier. So instead of being like I'm gonna have a mortgage all the way until I'm 84 practice not working out like you just use all your income for these last five years and knock all that out now you have barely any bills. I bet you get out of there a lot earlier.
SPEAKER_02Right exactly exactly so um what do you see as the biggest challenge the biggest challenges working Americans especially women face when it comes to retirement savings and financial security well statistically they'll say like access to plans but it's that gap um most of us have that caregiver gap.
SPEAKER_04And when you look at the statistics on that, you know whether you're stopping to have children or raise children or help aging parents or it's a lot of time it's the woman that stops working which means contributions stop matching contributions stop as well income stops as well. And so uh a few even a few years of that makes a huge difference. I don't know the solution of how to fix it but um I know I always tell I used to tell my students don't come near the problem if you at least have a part solution. And now I'm like yeah being a hypocrite but I I do think I don't like you probably know more of the stats on that and like specifically what that is but that time out of the workplace we're banished for it. We're kind of like penalized for it. And we can't even yes there's you know if for children maternity leave and all of that but like it's just it's not enough. Like nobody's gonna take right I mean it really isn't so if you want to take more you're doing that on your own and so you're again not working. So I think that's one of the biggest things and then I also statistically it's the access like when you look at different groups a lot of different groups even having access to a plan. So like you're working there's a lot of different small businesses there's a lot of people that and women own a lot of small businesses and don't have access to a plan or haven't started a plan. So they haven't just because I haven't found them yet. That's why I haven't found them yet and told them about the secure tax credits and why go to the plan right away and and it'll look almost free. I haven't that's because I haven't we haven't gotten around to it yet. But those that I do open the and start those those startup plans, they just didn't think they could have access to one. They didn't think they can afford one I have three employees and then now once you have the vehicle because we know you're like way more likely to save if you're saving through a workplace plan and it's coming out at your paycheck. So right and then figuring out how to solve the when we have to stop several years of working when you ask that's challenged too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and you know you mentioned like um not being able to afford to start a plan it's amazing to me I don't know if you come across this how many people small business owners will say oh I can't have a 401k plan they're just too expensive. Yeah and I you know I when you start talking about even even without the tax credits right because we have the tax credits now that can help pay for the first few years but even without them they're getting you know a pretty good deduction for contributions like the company's making and things like that. So I don't you know I I think that myth of it's just too expensive because when we look at like what they can increase their contributions by compared to like a simple IRA versus a a full on 401k, um we can find them ways, right? To make it not too expensive. Um maybe we just maybe April you and I just need to do like a series of webinars talking specifically to women small business owners.
SPEAKER_04Yeah they exactly and you can tell so the thing is they think when I hear this it's like yeah I can't match all my employees four percent every single employee I have like oh if only you had to work with somebody that could do the plan design that would make it you know you have options.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I and it's like have you actually looked at what that number is that four percent number because I think if you looked at that number you would be surprised and then you add on the credits and the deductions and things it's like that.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely and that's what I do use like I'm like before I do any kind of proposal I'm like send me what your payroll is and even if you have an idea of what your monthly payroll is just give me your what what did you you know do on whatever payroll system you did last month. Right. Do a quick thing look at four percent four percent of that tell them an actual number we talk in percentages all day long and nobody in the world thinks about percentages. So like this is how much that is they're like oh that's not even that bad. So you're right bringing in the numbers helps.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I think when they actually see it it's crazy it was like so my office manager Allison was telling me that my my employees were really disappointed that I don't have vision care. I have every other kind of care for for their benefits, right? Like we have all the other cares. We just don't have vision care. And so I was like okay well run a number and so I had my insurance guy give me a number and she she came back and said no I don't think we're gonna do this because the company has to pay for the full amount and I was like I I added up and it was like five hundred dollars a year would pay for my employee and their family to have vision care. And I was like you're telling me that for$500 a year per employee I could solve a problem that they're unhappy about like Yeah okay I just needed to see the number right put the number to it. So yeah I think seeing the number helps and not talking in percentages and not talking in jargon that we use. Yeah and jargon all the things yes across all of it um many people you serve are obviously juggling careers caregiving we just talked about that financial responsibilities all at one time what strategies do you use to help your clients balance the the competing demands while still trying to straight to stay on track for their retirement savings?
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah it's not easy there everything is pulling at us and everything is more expensive and I always sound like you know kids on average cost about$300,000 was you're 18. So every single one you end up it's like dang everyone's in my pockets and I'm supposed to be able to so I'm really into automation very into automation I make sure you know they take care at least get the free money that's coming from their employer. But what I don't want to do as again I as a personal CFO what I don't want to do is send you home I was a teacher. I'm not sending you home a homework I don't do that right you're not gonna get it done. So like this morning when I was meeting with the another client I whatever I'm telling you to do we're doing it together. So when you book our meeting our check-in meeting you we're getting it done so I'm not gonna add to the stress of you thinking oh that's right I need to do that I need to change my allocations I need to do that rollover I need to you know switch my automatic payments to my new credit card so I can get the point like so we schedule it and we do it. So I'm like all right here we go what are we doing? Might go in there, change that thing, log this, do this, do that. So when we leave there's no homework. So that's just one-on-one how I I can because I'm working with busy professionals. What they don't have is time. So if they can book 45 minutes with me and we can get done what we need to get done that's something that I'm not adding to their list. So I always try to not add anything to their list. I make sure that we get the work done right there when we can do it work alongside with them. I also I'm not gonna send them away to do estate planning and their tax whatever I'm in the meetings with their state planning attorney and their CPA and we're all doing together. I'm like hey guys here's the spreadsheet here's what we need this is what we have for taxes this year. How are we gonna do this? What do we need to do? Okay cool let me make the changes so just being that that personal guide alongside of them so they don't have to stress about it, think about it. Um I'm there to yeah not give them any more work. What they don't need is all work you're already thinking for their money. So like everybody wants all their money the kids and this meat and everything else that's so expensive so I also cannot take more of their time than they need.
SPEAKER_02I I think that's amazing for sure. I know my estate attorney sent me home with like three questions and I've still not I have still not like a big packet I still have not sat down with my husband and had the long conversation to answer the three questions right I'm like oh because it's homework. It's like the time I get home and I make dinner and we clean up after dinner and you know then I'm just like oh I just want to veg right now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah exactly like that conversation sometimes it's kind of weird again you're like okay I want to hang out I want to sit out talk about this. So when we're on you know husband and wife and we did this with another client it's like you know they they didn't really want to say like I really want my sister to do it. I'm thinking about my brother you know so I bring it up it's like okay so who do you want to take care of your kids? They were having the conversation on the screen write that up. And I'm kind of in the background but I brought it up and I'm like well let's just think through this. So being that third party it's get it done but also they're not the one that has to bring it up and they're not the one that has to say it, you know so I a lot of times I'm just I feel like I'm a family therapist counselor. If I get any other designation it's gonna be licensed social work.
SPEAKER_02Right exactly licensed therapist. Licensed therapist uh I love that um you've created a webcast series and I've I've seen it on your LinkedIn and I think you've done them in person too for your clients and other people in your community um I know you've given frequent presentations about savings and financial literacy. Tell me more about the programs you've created who they're directed towards and what results you're seeing with those yes very different I have a lot of different things going on.
SPEAKER_04What you're seeing now our weekly webinar series that's specifically these are for For like potential new clients. Like these are not current clients. I don't have their email addresses. So none of those are live on LinkedIn. You have to actually register and put your email address so that I can get you in my CRM.
SPEAKER_02Right. So you can get a yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So that's what you're seeing there now, our weekly webinar series. Uh I also do uh I used, then you can see the old ones where I'm doing them live. Some of it I'm just giving live information, quick little bits, you know, jumping on either Instagram or LinkedIn. I've not done much all summer because I have three boys that play four sports.
SPEAKER_02I understand.
SPEAKER_04Yesterday was the first all kids were back in school. So yeah, when you looked at it today, I was like, yeah, this actually will work. Uh nobody's gonna be here. So that part I I will be getting back into more of those where I'm just giving out information, not looking, you know, not looking to connect with anyone specifically. But I also do um two others, webinars that I do. All my fight I do all my financial wellness for all of my plans. I create all that information. I do all my own videos. So those go out quarterly. I do them live quarterly, and then I have, you know, where I send out all the replays. I have a little page that is, you know, they can watch all the replays on that if they want to. Um, and then I also do, I have a weekly not weekly. That would be way too much. A monthly newsletter that I do, a little snippet of something that goes to my entire database. So it's like entire database, it's clients, it's retirement plan clients, and then potential prospective clients is what I'm doing on LinkedIn right now. And so, yes, you know, like what do you see from it? Oh, it's very different. It's funny because like you can track it, which I think is really interesting to see. And I can tell specifically, if I don't invite people, I mean, this is not our rocket science. If you don't specifically invite them, they don't show up. Like just putting a health there isn't gonna happen. You have to actually follow the steps and invite them to the event and send the thing and follow up the thing. So I now have a new marketing intern who's that is only that is her job only, is to get people there. So nice gotta do that. Um, and then you see the results. But I know as soon as I do my quarterly webinars for my plans, I have a button in there because all of our plans also have a quarterly chat with the CFT Day. So I can tell right afterwards my calendar starts leak lighting up because something, whatever, pinged a question they have, so they're on my calendar and scheduling right away. So that's how I can tell those are working. And then those are you know workplace plans. So it's gonna be just something I'm working with as individuals on. Um that's awesome. But yeah, I look through all of the the data. I don't there's too much to do as a business owner, as you know. So I don't sit and look through all my like constant contact data to see like who clicked on everything. I don't care about who unsubscribed. I'm like, great, clean my list. I don't even care. So I don't have the I probably could spend more time looking specifically what's happening, but I know that I'm getting clients, I'm getting people that are scheduling calls, scheduling meetings, and yeah, that's the that's the game plan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a lot. I know it's it's a lot, it's a lot. So I actually um postponed or just kept pushing off and pushing off starting this podcast for like two years. So it it took like two years to jump off the cliff. So yeah, yeah, once we start getting the ball rolling, it's like, okay, I can do this, I can do it.
SPEAKER_05But it's a lot, it's a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a lot of commitment. And so if you could share one piece of advice with our audience, um who may be financial advisors, maybe plan sponsors, um, it's it's actually directed at both. Um so one piece of advice about helping close the gaps in retirement savings and coverage, what would that piece of advice be?
SPEAKER_04Uh for plan sponsors and advisors and CPAs, everyone, anyone that has any influence on plan design, I know new plans. We don't have to worry about new plans, they have to have it old plan. And so it's really get that auto enroll there. Like that auto enroll is is is just huge. And and as the advisor, it's your responsibility, our responsibility to make sure people know how to opt out. I'm not saying we need to like make sure everybody's doing this, make sure they know how to opt out, they get the button, they get the options. But even in the countries where um donor, what is it? Um when you donate your or organ donors, we're gonna opt out of organ doning, it's like 90%. So, you know, I don't know. It's it's just that I think is one of the biggest takeaways that you can do there. And then on the advisor side, another part of our role, you have to make sure there's access. Like you said, we are most likely the only advisor they're ever gonna see. Uh, so it's really, really important to take that role seriously, make sure you're helping. Because I think the financial education and the mindset and the behavioral changes and all of that, that's just as important to getting them to taking advantage of the match, right? So, like get them to take advantage of the match and they have all this money, but they have no emergency fund. They just keep taking a loan out. Like, what are we doing here, people? We need to really help all the other areas that they are struggling in and keep them going back to the retirement plan or feeling like they're broke. Let's help them clear up some of those other issues. So it might not be one-on-one, it might be some kind of AI solution, some kind of robot solution. It could be something. Um, there's like new text messaging solutions to help with behavior management, but whatever you can do to help those employees so they're not just using the retirement plan as a savings account.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. I totally agree. So, from your volunteer work with the school, with schools, retirement services, community organizations, where do you see the biggest opportunities for improving financial literacy and access to retirement plans? You said the biggest opportunities for improving financial literacy and access to retirement plans.
SPEAKER_04So improving financial literacy, you have to go where the masses are, I think. So it's not gonna be one-on-one. It's just like teaching, like getting it in early. We're talking about getting it in the education systems, making it mandatory, if there's something you can do in your state, I mean, that would be great. Advocacy work is important. Get that there. But if it's even through plans, like workplace plans, a lot of plans that we see when you're like, What's your what's your financial wellness? What do you do? How do you a lot of it's not there? So get to the schools, get to the plans, that's how you get to the masses. Um what was the second part of that?
SPEAKER_02It was the second part of that question. Uh we the biggest opportunity for improving financial literacy and access. And I think we we touched kind of on access too, is like I think re-educating people on what's available.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Re-re-educating people and business owners. Yeah. So making sure business owners know that they too can have a 401k. Like it's not expensive. Um, every business owner can actually do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. Um okay, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners, whether it's about your work, your volunteer efforts, your vision for a more financially secure future for working Americans, anything else that you would like to add?
SPEAKER_05Um, this is exciting. This is really good work.
SPEAKER_04We have a lot of work to do. Um, so anybody that I think any of us that are involved in, whether it's financial planning or working with plans, keeping that vision alive. Like we are here to help everyone retire with dignity, but what does that really mean? So just keeping that vision, staying motivating. Like it is, it can be depressing, it could be stressful, and we have to keep that smile on our face. And, you know, even when I'm looking at someone who is$100,000 in credit card debt and$200,000 in student loan debt and all these things, we're like, we're gonna figure it out. We're gonna figure it out. Yeah, it's not the end of the world because I mean, stress, this stress can be real. I mean, I'm talking about real. People are you know harming themselves. I mean, like, it can get real. So I want to make sure I always tell people too, people get so stressed out all day. And I'm like, good thing you can't go. We really can't go to jail for not paying your credit cards. Like, I'm joking. Right. You can't. I'm like, just because they keep calling, like, hang up, act like you're somebody else when they call.
SPEAKER_05Like, just change your name.
SPEAKER_04You know, try to bring a little bit of like like lightness to the because people really are stressed about some of these issues. Right. And so we don't, I want to make sure that we're not gonna add to that. We're gonna stay positive. We we're here to help. Um, you know, we're not a knight in shining armor, but we're gonna be working alongside with them. And they are looking for us for hope. They gotta keep that hope alive. So they're looking for us to hopefully help them in some way. So we got to stay positive when we're trying to do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's awesome. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for sharing your insights with us and for chatting with me today. I really appreciate it. Thank you for the help or the work you're doing to help Americans close the gaps in their savings. Um, for anyone who wants to learn more about the work April does every day, we will have her contact information in the show notes. And if you're listening to this podcast and you believe that you can that you have an innovative approach to closing the gaps in retirement savings for Americans, and you would like to share your ideas, please let me know. My contact information is also in the show notes. Thank you for joining us on The Gap, and please join us next time.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to The Gap. Be sure to check out the show notes for important links, retirement plan resources, and more at TryStarPension.com. While you're there, sign up for our information packed newsletter. And if you enjoyed the conversation, follow our podcast, share it, and tell a friend about it. And most importantly, rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening.
