Bonnie's Journey in Retirement Plans

Episode Introduction - The Gap with Bonnie Treichel

Today on The Gap, I'm excited to welcome Bonnie Treichel, a true leader and innovator in the retirement plan industry. Bonnie is the founder and chief solutions officer of Endeavor Retirement, where she focuses on simplifying retirement plan governance so advisors and plan sponsors can spend less time navigating complexity and more time helping participants save successfully for retirement. She is also a partner at Endeavor Law and brings a unique perspective as an ERISA attorney, former advisor, and plan sponsor. Bonnie is widely recognized for her thoughtful leadership on fiduciary responsibility and retirement plan governance. 

Episode Description

Governance isn’t glamorous, but it’s the difference between a plan that hums and a plan that hijacks your week. We sit down with Bonnie Treichel —ERISA attorney, former advisor, and founder of Endeavor Retirement—to translate fiduciary responsibility into a simple, repeatable system you can actually run. From future‑proofing your investment policy statement to building a one‑page map of duties, Bonnie shows how clear roles, documentation, and cadence stop finger pointing and free up time to help participants save more.

We dig into the risk spectrum behind real-world corrections, where legal black and white meets the gray of business judgment. You’ll hear how to right‑size best practices for a five‑person plan versus a 5,000‑person plan, what truly belongs in a committee charter, and why actionable education beats dense white papers. We also tackle today’s biggest pressure points—cybersecurity, privacy, missing participants, fee confusion—and outline practical steps for data mapping, vendor oversight, and secure workflows that meet DOL expectations without overwhelming your team. 

Training advisors to train sponsors scales good governance and raises outcomes across the system. With steady process in place, you can shift attention to participant engagement—re‑enrollment, smart defaults, timely nudges—and keep people invested through market noise. Bonnie also shares optimism about bipartisan momentum on coverage and the growing pipeline of next‑gen talent, plus a preview of her new book, Your Retirement Sketchbook, designed to make planning approachable and fun.

Guest Bio Bonnie Treichel:

Bonnie Treichel is the Founder and Chief Solutions Officer of Endeavor Retirement, a consulting firm dedicated to solving problems for plan sponsors, advisors and service providers in the retirement plan industry. Her unique experience as an ERISA attorney and advisor helps her bring governance solutions for day-to-day issues that are an inevitable part of running a successful retirement plan. Bonnie is also a Partner at Endeavor Law, a firm dedicated to supporting the ecosystem of financial services with their retirement plan-related decisions, documentation, compliance, regulation and litigation. As a thought leader on retirement plan governance issues, Bonnie has been quoted in publications such as The Wall Street Journal, InvestmentNews, 401(k) Specialist, Ignites, PlanAdviser, NAPA Net Daily, and Journal of Pension Benefits. She is an active member of the American Retirement Association and has served in various leadership
roles as well as the American Bar Association’s Tax Division where she is on the Lifetime Income Committee.  When she isn’t working on retirement plan issues, Bonnie enjoys traveling, spending time with her golden retrievers, Sadie and Sunny, running, riding her bike and volunteering for Make a Wish.

Contact Bonnie:
bonnie.treichel@endeavor-retirement.com
https://endeavor-retirement.com
816-284-2180
@btreichelesq

Transcript

Welcome And Mission To Close Gaps

Speaker 1 1:33

Hello, I'm Shannon Edwards, your host and owner of TriStar Pension Consulting. I would like to welcome all listeners to our podcast with a special welcome to those of you listening for the first time. I started this podcast because I have a passion for helping Americans achieve a dignified retirement. By sharing innovative ideas, this podcast is designed to help close the gaps that America has in retirement savings and coverage. By doing so, we can improve the lives of working Americans. Today on The Gap, I'm excited to welcome Bonnie Treichel, a true leader and innovator in the retirement plan industry. Bonnie is the founder and chief solutions officer of Endeavor Retirement, where she focuses on simplifying retirement plan governance so advisors and plan sponsors can spend less time navigating complexity and more time helping participants save successfully for retirement. She is also a partner at Endeavor Law and brings a unique perspective as an ERISA attorney, former advisor, and plan sponsor. Bonnie is widely recognized for her thoughtful leadership on fiduciary responsibility and retirement plan governance. She's been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Investment News, Napa Net Daily, and many other industry publications, and she's a frequent speaker at numerous conferences around the country. Her work has earned her numerous honors as well, including Investment News 40 under 40, the ABA's On the Rise Top 40 Young Lawyers Award, and recognition as NAPA Top Influencer. She's also the co-author of the upcoming book, Your Retirement Sketchbook, which brings retirement planning concepts to life in a clear and approachable way. Bonnie's work highlights something we talk about often on this podcast. While we still have work to do to close the retirement savings and coverage gaps, the private retirement system does work when it's governed well. Bonnie, I am so glad to have you here. Welcome to the gap. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm super excited to have you. And the first thing I want to do is start with your background and your journey. You've had a truly unique career path as an ERISA attorney, an advisor, and a plan sponsor. Can you walk us through your professional journey and how those different roles will ultimately led you to found Endeavor Retirement?

Speaker 3:51

Absolutely. Well, much like others that you meet in the retirement plan space, I certainly did not grow up on a farm thinking, hey, I'm going to become an ERISA attorney someday. But, you know, I've somewhat fell into it and am very thankful and have a lot of gratitude for the industry that I love and fell into. So I started out, I did one year of litigation defending broker dealers and investment advisors, and soon learned that I was not a litigator. I didn't really enjoy the uh fighting with other attorneys on a day-to-day basis. But that opportunity to start in financial services helped me to see that I had an opportunity to get into the ERISA side or retirement savings side, working for similar clients in the retirement plan space. So I spent some time working for a very well-known attorney doing retirement plan work, again for broker dealers and investment advisors, and really liked the building of things instead of fighting over what was already burned down, so to speak. And so that was a really great experience. And then, you know, maybe what I'll say is always maintain your network because through networking, I went from being an ERISA attorney to being at a networking event where I had an opportunity to go work in-house at an RIA. And at that RIA or registered investment advisory firm, I was able to maintain a book of business and become an advisor. Even though I said, I don't know the first thing about investments. I can't be an advisor. But probably Shannon, as you see, a lot of working with plan sponsors and being an advisor, it's not just about investments. It's about plan compliance and all those things I did as an attorney, but doing it with everything from I had some startup plans to some billion-dollar plans, and they needed someone to service those plans. And so that really helped me to see like the real practical side of the law and actually working with those clients directly. And I really appreciated that experience of being an advisor, getting firsthand knowledge of the practical side of, hey, you should actually correct this plan. But what does that really mean for this employer, not just sitting in an ivory tower doling out legal advice, if that makes sense?

Speaker 1 6:03

Yeah.

Speaker 6:03

Um, so that was a really great experience. And then eventually I peeled off and started. I've I actually started an RIA for a while. And that was, again, a good experience to learn about starting a firm. And then eventually had the consulting firms that I have now. I have a consulting firm for advisors and a law firm. And a lot of it is very in line with the values you have in this podcast of closing the coverage gap. I thought, hey, as an advisor, when I was in-house, I was really set on how do we make things simple? How do we make things understandable? And I thought I could start a consulting firm to help advisors help their plan sponsors. And that was the idea behind starting Endeavor retirement uh five years ago next month.

Why Train Advisors And Build Partnerships

Speaker 1 6:46

Oh, congratulations. I didn't realize it had been that long. That's awesome. And I love your focus on helping advisors. And I know in our market, we work a lot with advisors who don't, who are not specialists. And we're always looking for ways to educate them on how to better serve the clients that have the plans with them because there's there's really a lot that goes into doing 401k plans the right way for financial advisors. And too often we hear the story of the of you know, the plan sponsor that hasn't seen their financial advisor in five years. So I love that you're training advisors on how to be a better advisor to retirement plans.

Speaker 7:28

Yeah, one of the things I really try to focus on partnership, right? You know, we we hear all the stats about how there's going to be all these new plans, which is great, but we need these new plans to have qualified folks helping them. And I think that scares people from wanting to be in the plan space, but you don't have to be afraid of it. You just have to find the right partners working with people like you and your team. And, you know, you help a lot of advisors where they don't have to be an expert at everything. They just have to, like you said, like show up and bring the right partners to the table and know what they're good at and stay in their lane and then bring in other people to be in those other lanes. And through partnerships, we really can create more successful retirement plan programs.

Speaker 1 8:09

Absolutely. I totally agree. I totally agree. What gaps or recurring problems did you see in the retirement plan ecosystem that made you feel there was a real need for a firm focused specifically on governance solutions?

The Governance Gap And Actionable Education

Speaker 8:24

Yeah, so I felt like there were gaps where there were marketing firms out there or real like compliance firms out there, but there wasn't the synergy between, hey, how can we actually create actionable training? Again, not pure compliance, not marketing, but really the middle ground of that. How do we take something complex comes out from a legislative perspective or regulatory perspective? Let's take that real complex thing and make it simple and understandable so that an advisor can go deliver it to their plan sponsor or to participants. So we're really focused on creating resources that advisors can put in their branding. Doesn't need to be in our branding, and we'll rebrand it for them. And it really is about the training piece. So it's the presentations, I'll call it like mini guides, and it can be some of them are participant-facing, some of them are plan sponsor-facing, but it really is with the focus of actionable education, not big long white papers, but how do we really try to train the trainer, so to speak? We really want to empower people through knowledge to be able to make better decisions about the plan and for participants to be able to do the same. And I didn't see a lot of firms out there, you know, you could hire an attorney at a pretty high price point, you could hire someone to do compliance, you could hire someone to do marketing, but there wasn't really that education piece. And it goes along with one of our longer standing clients, which is ARA or the American Retirement Association, and we do a lot of education through them as well, training advisors. And so it really is that synergy of how do we train the trainer to be able to go out and work with those plant sponsors.

Speaker 1 10:08

Nice. Was there a particular moment or client situation or industry experience that really crystallized for you how critical governance is to a successful retirement plan?

What Governance Really Means Day To Day

Speaker 10:20

Oh gosh. There's probably a few of them. But for me, so when we talk about governance, it's like, well, what is governance actually? You know, it's like, because technically you don't even have to have it. And I guess I'll start with like, what does governance mean to me? All plans have to have a plan document. They have to have that. But really for me, what governance means is all the process you put around running your plan and the documentation to support that. And so for some plan sponsors, they may say, I'm a small plan. I don't need this, I don't have to have this thing. I don't have to technically have an investment policy statement. But really for me, governance is the process. It could be more sophisticated or less sophisticated, but it's the process you put around how you run your plan. So even if you have a very small plan, it's still really important because what happens when, you know, the next HR person comes in or the next person who's even just doing the contributions and remitting them. You know, it's just what are the steps? What is the SOP, so to speak, or the internal procedures for getting the money remitted to the trust each month, for example? It really are those set of steps or processes that all plans have to have, no matter how big or small you are. And it's part of the change management when you have different folks coming and going from the organization. For me, you know, something as simple as an investment policy statement or committee charter, I think we use that term a lot. But again, it's who are the players who are in charge of this plan at the organization? What are they responsible for doing? And how do they delegate that externally and internally? And again, we don't have to get too fancy with it, but I think what I saw is that even when you were thinking about roles and responsibilities externally and internally, there's oftentimes a gap there. It's like, I thought he was doing it. I thought she was doing it. And it's the finger pointing. And that's probably for me what crystallizes the need for a good governance program. It could be as simple as a spreadsheet that says, here's the people and here's what they're doing, and just maintaining that. But that framework of identifying roles and responsibilities is critically important.

Speaker 1 12:32

I totally agree. We see that happen all the time, especially in small firms that don't have HR, like HR people, where they'll get a new person and then all of a sudden we have all these late deposits, and they're like, Well, you didn't tell me that I needed to make these deposits. And we're like, we didn't even know you existed because we thought Mary was still there doing the deposits. And so we've really tried to reach out to our clients now and be more proactive about hey, you need to really tell us if you change if somebody changes responsibilities or somebody leaves and somebody new comes, we need to know and we need to set up a time to talk to them because they need to understand the rules that govern this plan. And then we can help them get into their new role and see what they need to do. But it is we're having to be more proactive too, as the TPA in letting our clients know, hey, you need to reach out and we need to help train your new person.

Preventing Errors Through Roles And SOPs

Speaker 13:30

That's such the value, too, of working with, you know, someone like you, Shannon, and your team is that you're there to help provide that continuity when your clients sometimes lack the continuity. That's something, the stickiness that you bring to those relationships and really training, you know, folks as they come and go.

Speaker 1 13:48

Yeah. I mean, we would really rather not have mistakes that we have to fix. So if we can get ahead of it and make sure the mistakes don't happen, it makes that our lives easier too. So anyway, how does your legal background shape the way you think about fiduciary responsibility and risk management compared to how advisors or plann sponsors may approach it?

Speaker 14:09

Oh, such a good question. With the lawyer hat on, it's always thinking about risk. But I think one of the things I try to do, and this actually probably comes from the combination of legal as well as being an advisor for a period of time, is really helping people to think about, I'll call it the spectrum of risk, right? There's risk involved with the plan from the first dollar in to the last dollar out. But I really have tried, and again, this is the combination of having been an advisor and sat at the table with everyone. It's yes, the law says X. And I can think about the law says X. Epgers says do Y, you know, that sort of thing. I really try to say, here's the spectrum of risk. If I put my business hat on, you know, the law says you should do this. Doing nothing to correct is this. In the middle is X, Y, and Z. Here's the spectrum of risk. My job is to inform you, and you get to make the decision, and I can support you through navigating that. And so I think that really comes up a lot when we're talking about how to correct an error. There's everything from doing absolutely nothing to spending millions of dollars to do something else. And what's that in-between look like to help that, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of times it's a business decision. And we want folks to have a plan. And I'm not saying don't correct your errors, but it really is helping people to really think about navigating sometimes the difference between a VCP, where, you know, we've got people actually filing with the IRS, sometimes waiting for several months, to a self-correction, to doing nothing at all. And so I think over time, I've really tried to think about how do we help people navigate that spectrum of risk and understanding the difference between the black letter of the law versus what's gray area and helping people think about that. Because at the end of the day, I want people to have plans. I want people to be compliant, but we also just want to think about how do we help support business owners and plan sponsors in their decision making. I don't know if that makes sense, but it really is like there's so many different decisions folks can make on that spectrum sometimes.

Risk Spectrum: Legal Black, White, And Gray

Speaker 1 16:18

No, you're right. And like as a TPA, because I have my ERPA and I can I can practice in front of the IRS and defend a client. But there comes a certain time where as a TPA and not as an attorney, I'm very black and white. So if there's a correction to be made, I'm gonna look at Epgers, we're gonna do it this way. And I'm not gonna stray from that lane. And so when my clients are like, well, I don't like that lane and I don't like that answer, that's the point at which I'm like, okay, you know what? We need to hire an ERISA attorney because they they can tell you what the gray area is and they can help you decide. And I will actually like I'll sit in on the meetings that they want me to. And then if the attorney asks me, like, hey, I need you to sit out of this one because they want to talk about, you know, are they gonna correct it? Are they not gonna correct it? What are we gonna do? So um, I I know it's really helpful, you know, to have those team members that I can call on that can talk about the gray area versus me being the black and white area. Yeah, absolutely. Endeavor in Endeavor retirement has grown into a respected voice on plan governance, fiduciary education, and advisor training. What accomplishments are you most proud of so far?

Speaker 17:30

Hmm, really great question. Well, first and foremost, thank you. You know, as I very much so respect the work you do in the industry and the brand that you've built. And guessing you can appreciate, like as a small business owner, you know, businesses have ups and downs. And so there's some of these, you feel the highs high and the lows can be low sometimes. So as a small business owner, I think one of the things I'm probably most proud of is I enjoy the opportunity that we get to choose where we spend our time and resources. And that's one thing I love about being a small business owner is that we have the opportunity to donate to causes that we care about, to invest time and resources that we care about, and to work on projects that we feel like can like really move the needle. So, for example, I'm really proud of the fact that, you know, as a team, we get to donate to cause, you know, when we are profitable, we get to donate to causes we care about. So we have spent a lot of time and resources on make a wish. And I, again, I know you do a lot of this type of work too, but make a wish and both volunteer time and then financial energy and efforts go into that too. I'm on the board of the FinServe Foundation and spend a lot of time and then also have donated a lot to that as well. And so those are things that I'm very proud of. Each year at the holidays, we always pick something that we're donating to and kind of doing that in the name of our clients. And so, again, that's something I'm very proud of is that we get to choose as a group what we're going to donate to. And that makes me very, very proud. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 19:09

Yeah, we have we have a lot in common, Pani, because I I do a lot of work with Make A Wish too. And I was also 40 under 40, but a long time ago, way before you were 40 under 40. And we're both Napa Top influencers. Yes, I know. And now you have a big role at ARA. Yes. And that's where that is probably what I'm most proud of lately, is just being able to do as much advocacy work as as I get to. And you're right, it's as a small business owner, I can I can put some of my time toward the advocacy work that ARA does. And that that's that's what fills my bucket is getting to really do some some help for that organization and give my time. So I really love it. You've been widely quoted in major publications and recognized as a thought leader across the industry. How do you decide where to focus your voice and energy as regulations and priorities continue to evolve?

Small Business Wins And Giving Back

Speaker 20:07

Good question. You know, I think one of the things is just it kind of going off of what we were just talking about, it really is, and I encourage others to do the same. It's where do you have value alignment, right? So we were just talking about ARA, for example. And I think, you know, I have good value alignment with ARA. And so a lot of times when I have opportunities to be a part of NapaNet, for example, I really try to focus energy. There. And so it is finding opportunities where there's good value alignment and finding those good partnerships. So I think that's something that's very important to me is always trying to find good value alignment, good partnerships. And like you were talking about with the advocacy, same thing. It's I believe in the work that ARA does. I try to be part of that work, both with financial contributions and then also to your point, you know, where am I going to invest time from a research perspective and a voice perspective? I really want to do that at places where I feel like they're carrying out the mission that we believe in, which is coverage and making sure people have access. And that's important to our team and to me personally.

Speaker 1 21:17

You've also created advisor training programs and CE eligible boot camps that we've been talking about. Why is education such a critical lever for improving outcomes in the retirement system?

Choosing Platforms And Advocacy With Purpose

Speaker 21:30

I have a belief that, you know, there's kind of two ways that things happen. One, historically, you've seen some who have, I'm going to say, had the information and they hold on to the information because that's a way that they stay relevant, right? So I've seen that my perception is that some have wanted to keep the information because that's how they keep the client, right? That's how they stay relevant as they are the holder of the information. I think there's a different, better way of doing business, which is hey, there's enough business to go around and there's a way of doing business that if you provide education, if you spread the knowledge, that's like spreading the wealth. And by providing training and by sharing the information, the best compliment is someone basically repurposing your work and sharing it with others. And so I really strongly believe in that. I think training advisors or training the trainer, that is a way to create more, you know, wealth for all, right? If we can train advisors, they can train plan sponsors. More plan sponsors or employers are going to have plans and that creates more access. We know from everything with secure one and secure two, and probably a secure three in the future, right? That we still have a problem with people having access to retirement savings. The way to solve that is by providing education to employers and to advisors as a gateway to that. So for me, that is my way of helping solve that problem. I love that.

Education As The Force Multiplier

Speaker 1 23:01

And I love that you say, you know, sharing the information. Because if we have hundreds of thousands of new plans come on in the next, you know, few years, we're gonna need more people that know what we do and how to do it, right? We need younger people coming in this industry. And and there needs to be a way for them to get training. I know even you know, my son is a financial advisor. And when, you know, he first started, it was hard for him to find people willing to teach him and train him and take them under their wing to teach him about retirement plans and not like technical stuff about retirement plans, about what the financial advisor needs to be doing, because the two gentlemen that he worked for did not do 401k plans. So it is important that we are training people and there's enough work to go around for all of us. I'd love that I think that's what I love most about ARA and the sister organizations is they're so collaborative with each other when we go to conferences and stuff. We just went to the women's conference, and you know, we all share because we want everybody in the industry to be successful because that means that participants are going to be able to retire successfully. And that's what we're all here for.

Speaker 24:16

Totally agree. I the collaborative nature of it and the understanding that like we we don't have to be enemies, we can be frenemies or whatever you know folks want to call it. But it's like your competitors are your friends, and that concept of like rising tides lifts all ships, like everyone will benefit when we work together on it because there is plenty of work to go around. Right.

Speaker 1 24:36

Looking back on your career so far, what are some of the most important lessons you've learned about what actually makes retirement plans successful for participants?

Speaker 24:47

Oh we've we've talked about this theme a lot, but it is, you know, what makes it suc what makes a successful plan? I do think a big part of it is education, but it's actionable education. So just putting stuff out there that doesn't move the needle. I think it's really cool to see some of the technology that is able to make it actionable for participants. I'm not diminishing investments, but it's it's not having the perfect lineup, right? In my opinion. It's about how do we make things so that there is enough actionable information for participants to be able to engage and take action. So I think that's something that's really meaningful to me is seeing when plan sponsors can really make sure that their employees have the information in an actionable way to be able to engage with the plan. You know, you hear some of these horror stories about, hey, in 08 or 09, someone moved everything to basically cash and then they never put it back and they missed out on all of, you know, the market going up over all those years. It's like, well, that person didn't have the right information to be able to take the right actions or to re-engage after a period when there was uncertainty. You know, those are the types of things where it's like, hey, really we need to just make sure that we have participants or employees rather who have the information at the right time to be able to take action. Again, there's all these new shiny bells and whistles, I feel like, but it's about keeping things simple enough that people are be able to take action. That kind of goes a little bit to the book that I wrote with Jamie Hopkins and why we did it and the whole point of it, which is making it simple, making it fun, and making people want to engage with it. That's the whole concept that I think if we can do that for employees that want to engage, they'll want to not say, hey, I'll put that off and do it later, but it's about making it something that someone's going to want to engage with so they'll actually take action.

Speaker 1 26:52

Yeah, I agree. Are there things you believed early on about fiduciary governance or plan design that experience has since reshaped or refined?

What Actually Drives Participant Success

Speaker 27:06

Good question. Well, I think so. As a younger lawyer, I was much more like every plan must have a committee charter. Every plan must have an investment policy statement, every plan must, you know, I was so rigid because it's like that was the best practice. And so over time, I think, and this came from being an advisor and sitting around the table. All plans don't have to follow the best practice. Best practices are in place for a reason, and that makes sense, right? Because largely it is the best practice, but that doesn't mean it fits for all plans. So I think that's the benefit of working with your advisor or consultant, your TPA, your record keeping partner, your attorney, is that they can help shape, yes, this is the best practice, but this is how it applies for you. Because yeah, the five-person, you know, plan, they don't probably need all those same things that the 5,000-person plan does. Now, yes, ERISA applies the same to all of them, but it's about getting something, like we said, that works for your particular plan. And so I think that's something I've really learned over time is the rigidity I had is like a, hey, well, I saw Fred and Fred said all plans need this. And so that's what you should do. No, that's a best practice, but it might not apply the same for everyone. Right. No, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 28:27

That's great. We often talk on this podcast about the retirement savings and coverage gaps. So, from your vantage point, what are the biggest governance-related challenges plan sponsors and advisors are facing right now?

Evolving Views On Best Practices

Speaker 28:41

From my perspective, there's so much that has changed over the past call it, well, I guess six years now, because I was thinking from the first secure, right? So we had secure and then cares and then secure. So you have all of these big legislative pieces coupled with the regulatory pieces underneath and increasing litigation. So you've got so much change that people are trying to keep up with. And so then when you translate that into, well, the governance framework, I'll give the example of we did a piece here for Q1 called like future-proofing your investment policy statement. And the reason we did that is that we're hearing from plan sponsors like, hey, this administration's DOL says this, and then the next one says this, and then the next one's back to what the first one said. What should I be doing? How do I have an IPS that can keep up with like ESG yes, ESG no, ESG yes, private equity, yes, private equity no, private equity, yes. Well, it's so much change. I think from a governance perspective, it feels like I'm not going to do anything because it's always in flux. What do I do? So I think that is the biggest challenge is this perception of constant change. And so what we're trying to do is help folks think about just keep it basic. Keep it simple. You probably are tired of me saying that on this. No, it's like, no, that's what it's about. Keeping it basic and simple. Like, you know, your prudent process, you know your basic due diligence. Don't try to get too wild on the fringes here with all these things. Just keep it simple and basic, and it will withstand all of the back and forth across administrations. It'll withstand all of the changing rags, you know, and then you can focus on some of these more complicated things like, hey, when RMD ages change again, then we can focus on that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:33

So with ongoing regulatory change and cybersecurity concerns and increasing litigation risk, where do you see the most pressure points for fiduciaries today?

Speaker 30:47

You know, things related to cyber and privacy. To me, when when I talk to people about, hey, this is where you've got to focus, I'm generally talking to them about data. So I'm saying, do you know what data you have related to the plan, who you're sharing it with, and how it's being protected? Because I do think from a risk mitigation, it doesn't matter if you are the five-person plan or the 5,000-person plan, the data thing can really hurt anyone, so to speak. That's where I see the biggest risk is in, you know, you've got the Department of Labor. They just came out with their priorities here recently, and cybersecurity was at the top of that list. So it doesn't matter what administration it is, they're focused on cyber. They had the guidance from 2021 that they then reinforced in 2024. And again, that really impacts all types of plans, both your retirement plan and your health and welfare plan. And so it's really just thinking about the privacy issues with that, how you're protecting it. And so, kind of a quick takeaway is really, and any service provider can help their clients think through this. Hey, what data do we have? Who are we sharing it with? And how is that being protected?

Speaker 1 32:07

Yeah, I agree. I think I think that that's where the most pressure is for a lot of the service providers too, especially us. Like you can do all the right things and still get hacked. You know, you can have everything in place that you're supposed to have. Um, and we try to train our clients. We still have clients that will send us full socials via email. And I'm like, I can't accept this. You cannot keep doing this. We have a secure, we have a secure portal for you to use. So I think cybersecurity, I think you're right, because it is one of the things that keeps me up at night too, as a service provider. And we have, I mean, my whole system's on lockdown. So Endeavor's navigator platform is designed to simplify governance and make it repeatable and scalable. How does that kind of framework help advisors and plan sponsors better manage their fiduciary risk?

Cybersecurity, Data, And DOL Priorities

Speaker 32:59

Yeah, so the whole idea is how do we come up with a scalable way to help you think about all those things you're supposed to be doing from a fiduciary responsibility perspective? I think one of the tough things about being a fiduciary or a plan sponsor is that there's no place where you get to go in ERISA or the tax code where it says, here's a list of your 57 duties. Oh, and now here's number 58, which is cybersecurity. And here's, you know, that doesn't exist. So what we're trying to do is come up with in a way that's very approachable. Here's a way to have a one-page kind of map of all the things you need to be thinking about. And then over time, each quarter releasing materials that fit into that map so that you can think about, okay, this quarter we're going to focus on the investment topic. This quarter we're going to focus on. And so it doesn't mean you have to meet every quarter, but how do we think about in an ongoing fashion meeting all of those duties so that we're not missing one, so that we're not missing forfeitures or a revenue credit account and really just all those different things from loans to cybersecurity that you have to think about because there isn't a checklist that gets updated every time the DOL says, well, missing participants, that's in your purview as well. Which for some plan sponsors, it's like, wait, we have to keep track of people's money even after they leave. Why wouldn't they have to keep track of it? Nope. It's on you, plan sponsor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 34:28

Yeah. We actually just took over a plan that um it's an old, old, old profit sharing plan, profit sharing only, trustee directed, balance forward. And they were doing it in Excel. And there's about there somebody started shredding. They they also used to not allow for distributions. Um somebody started shredding old employee files. And so now we have a handful of people we have no address for, we don't even have a social, so we can't even like do a lost participant search. Um, so it is it is a hard lesson to learn when they figure out that that's on them. And now we have to try to find these people. So, but they have help now. So that's good. What practical steps can advisors and plan sponsors take right now to strengthen governance without feeling overwhelmed?

A Scalable Map For Fiduciary Duties

Speaker 35:26

Great question because I think a lot of times people don't take any steps because it feels too big, too overwhelming to even get started. So I do think great way of thinking that through that, you know, just take some small step to get started. One thing I would say for plan sponsors is that if you're not working with a service provider such as an advisor and a TPA, that's a great step just to get the right partners in place. You know, being mindful of do you have the right partners to help you? That's a great way to get started down a good governance process. I think the next thing I would say from there is kind of going back to that, I'm gonna call it Excel function I said earlier. One, get your partners in place. And then two, just do an identification of roles and responsibilities, both internally and externally with those parties. So it really is, you know, listing out that Shannon's our TPA and Joe's our advisor. And we've got this record keeper, and these are our three people internally who are going to help. And then what are the tasks and who's doing which one? I think that's a really easy way to get started because it helps you to identify gaps in your process. Oh, wait, no one's in charge of missing participants or no one's in charge of figuring out who's tracking down cybersecurity issues. Okay, great. Well, the good thing about ERISA is that it not only allows but actually encourages you to hire outside parties to help where you lack the expertise. And I think we kind of, I would argue we lose sight of that because we're so focused on fees, because over time all the fee compression has scared people into feeling like we can't hire anyone because we can't pay for things because we can't, you know, spend too much money because it wouldn't be a reasonable fee. That's not the case. All these planned things that you can't do. And so I would just encourage people, hire outside experts, hire, you know, good experts to do all these things, do an inventory of all the tasks related to the plan. And if you don't have the expertise, hire an expert to help you do them. And I think that's a great step down the governance path that would really help you to figure out are we running the plan the way we should, and intend to do so. Agreed.

Speaker 1 37:56

It it always still surprises me how confused people are too about fees. You know, for instance, if they pay the fees outside of the plan, it's not an issue, right? It's not, it's not something they're going to get in trouble for as a fiduciary if if the company's paying the fees. But a lot of people have been scared. A lot of people use scare tactic, scare tactics to win the business, too, which always frustrates me. Um, you know, sell yourself, don't sell against somebody else or scare somebody to sell your services. But there is still a lot of confusion around fees. You're right. How do strong governance practices ultimately support better participant engagement and savings behavior and retirement readiness?

Missing Participants And Real-World Headaches

Speaker 38:42

Yeah, so I think by putting in a good, strong governance process at the plan level, it allows you to free up time to focus on, to me, what matters the most, which is the participants. But if the plan sponsor is always so like reactive to all of the issues at a plan level, they can't ever get to the meaningful work of, hey, how do we focus on more participant engagement? Oh, could we run this participant campaign? They can't ever get there if they're always reacting to some, you know, plan level this or plan level that, or the audit revealed X, Y, or Z. If you can get a good governance process in place where you've got the right partners and you're outsourcing to these partners and you're like in your flow there, then you can get to that meaningful work. Uh, what, which to me is why we have the plan of, hey, participants might benefit from this or that. That's really for me the benefit of a good governance process is if you get it right up here, you can focus on that next level, which is the participants, and really try some things out. All participant campaigns aren't always going to work. You might try something and it doesn't work, you've got to pivot and try something else. That's what's going to take a little time to get it right for your people.

Speaker 1 39:57

So as we start to wrap things up, what gives you the most optimism about the future of the private American retirement system?

First Steps To Stronger Governance

Speaker 40:06

A couple of things. I mean, one is the people in it who are trying to make it work, right? So, like the conversation we've had today, people like you, others in the retirement plan space, there's a lot of people committed to the space that gives me a lot of hope for what's ahead. Also, I think from just a legislative perspective, there's a lot of interest in solving the coverage gap, right? So, do you have a background? Drop from a bipartisan perspective of wanting to solve the coverage gap. You see it at both the state level and the federal level. And to me, that creates a lot of hope. I think there's a lot of opportunity out there. And that gives me hope and excitement of, hey, we're going to continue to move this forward. Another thing I'll mention is I, I think I said earlier on the board of an organization called Vincer Foundation. And that is all about bringing in the next generation of advisors. So we're focused in colleges and universities with 50 university partners, bringing in right now we're at about 200 students per year, and we're working to get that up to 2,000 students per year. Seeing those students and how excited they are, and they're both in retirement and wealth, but seeing how excited they are to make a difference in this space, that gives me a lot of hope and optimism. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 41:27

That's awesome. I wish we we need to do all that's that's one of the things we talk about at ASPA too, is how do we get into the colleges to teach them to even tell them there's a retirement services industry out there, right? Like, yeah, if you're an accounting major, you could also do this. So that's that's awesome that you guys are doing that. If you could leave plan sponsors and financial advisors listening today with one key takeaway about fiduciary governance and retirement success, what would it be?

Speaker 41:57

The one thing I would leave people with is don't try to overcomplicate it. Keep it simple and keep it basic. It's always an easier way to get started when you don't try to like shoot for the moon on step one, right? Get the right partners. Go out and make sure that you've got partners to support you. You don't have to know it all. Get a partner and keep it basic and keep it simple. That will allow you to get started and you can always improve and iterate over time. But if you just get started and keep it basic and keep it simple, I think that's a great step in the right direction.

Speaker 1 42:32

Finally, tell us more about your new book and where listeners can find it.

Fees, Expertise, And Reasonableness

Speaker 42:39

I am you you ask about like projects that I'm proud of. One that I probably was remiss in in mentioning is my new book coming out. I've never written a book before, so this was quite the undertaking. With co-author Jamie Hopkins, we have a book coming out called Your Retirement Sketchbook. It can be purchased on Amazon. It will be out March 31st. The concept of your retirement sketchbook is that it is for individuals. It could be someone who's preparing for retirement, someone in retirement, but it's 125 topics. Everything from starting with your relationship to money to basics around saving and investing, preparing your retirement income plan, and then into the spectrum of retirement itself and preparing for what it's like to live in retirement, where you're going to live, and preparing for end-of-life decisions. So it's the whole spectrum of the retirement planning phase. And each concept, each of the 125 comes with a sketch. So the idea is to really have something very fun and approachable to help you think about learning with a sketch to describe each thing. So if you've ever thought about health savings accounts and you're like, oh, HSAs, this is boring. Well, it comes with a sketch to make it more fun. So the idea behind it is how can you really think about your sketchbook, which again, retirement plans or retirement income planning, it's not like a, hey, you get your plan or your financial plan and then you print it out and that's it. It really is a sketchbook, right? Like it's changing all the time. You never know what's going to happen. So the idea behind the book is you're sketching out your vision for retirement, but it might be changing over time. So I'm really excited about it. Hopefully, it will help people to think about their retirement. It's not the couple on the beach like you see in those brochures. It really is being thoughtful about you get to sketch out your own retirement and it might be different for everyone, but that's the thing. You get to sketch it out. It's your retirement vision.

Speaker 1 44:39

That's awesome. Bonnie, thank you so much for sharing your time and your insights and your perspective with us today. It's so inspiring to hear from someone as passionate about the retirement plan industry as you are. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of The Gap. If you believe that you have an innovative approach to closing the gaps in retirement savings for Americans and you would like to share your ideas, let me know. My contact information is in the show notes. Don't forget to follow, share, and leave a review if you've enjoyed the conversation. And we will have Bonnie's contact information in our show notes as well. Thank you.