Closing the Gap with Lisa Gomez - Part 2

Episode Introduction - The Gap with Lisa Gomez 

A retirement plan can look like a line item on a pay stub until you’re the person without one. That’s where this conversation starts, and why it gets so real so fast. I’m joined by Lisa Gomez, a nationally recognized employee benefits leader and the former head of the Employee Benefits Security Administration at the U.S. Department of Labor, the agency responsible for protecting the workplace benefits of more than 150 million Americans.

Episode Description

We sit down with Lisa Gomez to talk about what the retirement industry gets right, where the real breakdowns still happen, and how we can close the retirement savings gap and coverage gap without falling into defeatism or victory laps.

We dig into the practical reasons people don’t participate even when they have access to a 401(k) or workplace retirement plan: confusing communication, benefits that look good on paper but don’t solve day-to-day needs, and the emotional reality that money stress and mental health are tightly linked. Lisa pushes us to get out of the echo chamber and talk directly with workers and employers, especially the demographics that keep getting left behind, so we can design solutions that actually change behavior.

We also explore what financial advisors can do best when they serve as a whole-person guide, not just an account manager. From there we zoom out to policy and infrastructure: responsible financial data sharing that supports holistic planning, clearer and more consistent ERISA fiduciary expectations across shifting investment debates, and the opportunity for small employers through PEPs, state programs, and underused tax credits. We close with a challenge to plan sponsors and advisors: schedule real plan design reviews, strengthen governance, and keep asking whether the plan is truly helping people build retirement security.

If you found this helpful, subscribe, share it with a plan sponsor or advisor, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s the biggest obstacle you see to improving retirement readiness?

Guest Bio:

Lisa is the founding member of LMG Collaborative Consulting Solutions, a firm providing comprehensive public policy and other consulting services in all aspects of employee benefits, including compliance, plan administration, plan design, advocacy, communications, government agency engagement, and strategic planning. In this new chapter, Lisa seeks to partner with employers and other plan sponsors and administrators, labor organizations, service providers, and worker advocates and use her experience and voice to help them successfully achieve their goals. Lisa can also serve as a professional trustee or independent fiduciary, expert witness, arbitrator, or mediator. 

Lisa was nominated by President Joseph R. Biden as Assistant Secretary of Labor for Employee Benefits Security for the U.S. Department of Labor in July 2021 and was confirmed by the U.S. Senate in September 2022. She was sworn in by Secretary of Labor Martin J. Walsh on October 11, 2022, and served in that position until January 20, 2025. Previously, Lisa was a long-standing partner with the law firm Cohen, Weiss and Simon LLP, representing labor organizations and employee benefit plan sponsors and administrators, and the chair of the firm’s management committee. 

Contact Lisa M. Gomez:

LMG Collaborative Consulting Solutions
https://lmg-ccs.com
lisamgomez@lmg-ccs.com
917-757-5100

LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gomezlisam/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to part two of my conversation with Lisa Gomez. If you missed part one, be sure and go back and listen to it. It was very enlightening and enjoyable. I hope you enjoy part two. You helped oversee a system covering hundreds of thousands of retirement plans and trillions in assets. What do you think the industry gets right that people don't talk about enough?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I think the industry gets lots right.

What The System Gets Right

SPEAKER_01 0:33

You know, again, I I have dealt with so many different organizations, stakeholders who are, you know, I think that we often, as with anything, you know, you it's so easy, it's a natural thing for people to focus on the things that are not going perfectly well versus the incredibly like huge percentage or you know, part of things that's going extraordinarily well. So when you think about the fact that that that while, yes, we need to have more people engaged, you know, saving, all of that, the fact that we have a voluntary system that employers do not have to offer, and that so many people do have access to retirement benefits, specifically talking about retirement benefits now, but that so many people do have retirement benefits and are accessing those benefits and are, you know, leading themselves and being led, you know, together with having the support of this industry that is leading them towards financial security in retirement, that that can't be understated, right? And and I, you know, prefer not to have or or to kind of like give a lot of air to the conversations or the the narrative that the system is broken, right? I I don't think we should be talking, it's it's a very defeatist attitude, right? And it's not recognizing the good that is happening at this, and and it's you know, and it's just a difficult if someone comes to you and tells you your car is totaled versus like you can, you know, you got like there are ways that you can improve to make your car work better, you know. Um, I and there's certain parts of your car that might be outdated now and you know you need to replace. So similar with the retirement system, you know, there are certain things that we just have to come, you know, come to accept the fact that, you know, things need to change and we need to change ways of delivery, we need to innovate, you know, we need to recognize that, you know, maybe parts of the system aren't working as well as they should be. At the same time, I think that we can't get too complacent with like and patting ourselves on the back saying, like, we've done such a great job. Sometimes I sit at conferences and I'm listening to all of these various conversations about, you know, financial wellness or auto enrollment or you know, the changes in secure 2.0, increasing access, all of these, you know, various things that are happening out there. And everybody's like, you know, yay, we're doing such a good job. However, like, you know, I think trying to get to a point where we're saying, like, we're doing a good job, and there's still so much more that can be done, you know, and there are people who are, you know, that access to a plan is, you know, not enough. And like, why is like what's happening? So trying to focus on, you know, not being negative about it and not saying like everything is so horrible and so many people are being left behind, but recognizing that, you know, there are that we are, you know, progressing in a positive direction, but that there are areas where we need to be thinking, you know, we need to be really thinking long and hard about are things working? How should we shift? Who is being left behind and why? Why aren't people accessing? You know, is access to a plan enough? And for employers who aren't offering plans, like what, you know, what is it that's stopping them from doing so? And like, how can we really, you know, in a meaningful way be talking with either employers who aren't accessing plans, employees who are not, you know, taking advantage of plans that are available to them, like, you know, kind of getting out of our own heads sometimes about why we think things aren't, you know, like working as well as we would like them to, or what improvements might be working, you know, might be beneficial to people. And, you know, instead talking with the folks themselves who have to deal with this on a day-to-day. But, you know, but I I think you know, trying trying to look at this as more of a glass half full rather than a glass half empty, um, but not, you know, thinking like we we should be shop popping champagne at every moment and our job is done here.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

So well, okay, so that leads me. You kind of touched on this, but do you have anything specifically where you think we're falling short in closing the gaps in savings and coverage?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, one is that there are, you know, we keep seeing that that there are like certain demographics of people, whether it's you know, types of workers, people who live, again, like in certain areas of the country, people of certain ages, people

Who Gets Left Behind And Why

SPEAKER_01 5:42

of certain genders, people of certain races, like people, all of these various things we see. And like how much are we? I don't think that we're doing enough to really be talking directly with those people about what is stopping them. You know, and I feel like this happens in so many different areas, but not just in the retirement world, but there are, you know, we are very fortunate to have lots of very, again, you know, bright, dedicated, well-intentioned people who work in the retirement industry and genuinely want to try to solve problems. But we don't have all of the best answers. We may think this makes perfect sense, but I think there's too much of a disconnect in not talking with workers themselves and not talking with like employers themselves about like what's holding them back and where they're and and what could they really use, you know, and and what will like change the need. So I I I there needs to be more of a you know, of a connection with like real world life, and even in communicating like the change, the good things that are happening out there. One thing when I was at EBSA, I would always, always say to my staff, like, you know, my dad is that you use my dad as an example, like at it, and like you need to explain, we need to explain whatever we're doing in a way that my dad, and this isn't, you know, it's not like but like for like pick John Q, number whatever. How is that person going to like read about what we did and think that like that was meaningful to them? And I think it's the same thing for a plan sponsor, you know, they could a plan sponsor can introduce like all sorts of different enhancements to their plan pro offerings. We hired this one. If the if you have one of your employees that says, you know, I that means nothing to me. And it's either because I I don't understand it or I don't under, I don't appreciate how it is helpful to me, or it's actually not helpful to me at all. And and it's not helpful to most people. And it looks pretty that you did that, but you know, so I think the more that it's trying to get down to like the practical, we lose sight of like that practical, is this really helping anyone? Right. So, you know, I I think that that is that's an area in which we have, you know, like just trying to trying to do a better job at thinking about in real life for real people, how outside of the conferences where we're all a little bit of a, it's a little bit of an echo chamber talking about, you know, how things work. Like, what does this mean for for anybody on the outside and how can we be making it better? And I think too, like in the financial, like what does financial wellness mean? Like I'm all for financial wellness, but like what does that mean? Like and I think a lot of it's one of these things that, you know, again, would never tell people to abandon their financial wellness programs? It's not important. But, you know, I I fear that sometimes it sounds like something great that you're doing, but how much does the plan sponsor really understand about like what is financial wellness? Like when is a person, person financially well? How do we help make them financially well? And I guess the other just kind of attachment to that is that, you know, having when I was at the Department of Labor, worked a lot on the health side in mental health benefits, you know, and trying to improve access to mental health benefits. Um, and then also working on retirement and the the and you know, access to retirement, equity in retirement. It's so clear that there's such a connection between a person's mental health and their financial health. And there's not enough of bringing those two things together and thinking about just the emotional, you know, people, a lot of the reasons why people don't think about retirement is because what happens when you retire? You know, you're getting old and eventually, you know, you won't be here. People don't want to think about those things. Or people have financial stressors that, you know, or you know, mental health issues that they might be dealing with, or the financial stressors are affecting their mental health. I think that there's not enough of that kind of looking at the person as a whole person and thinking, you know, how how do we best serve that person, you know, in all aspects? So we need to get, you know, a little bit better at not working so much in our silos and trying to come together to best serve the people that we're serving.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah, agreed. What role do you think the financial advisors should play in helping bridge the savings and coverage gaps?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I think that, you know, financial advisors can be a person who, you know, in in if if if we're talking about like financial advisors and who are working with individuals, right, can be, you know, one one of the one of the most important resources to an individual

Advisors As Whole Person Guides

SPEAKER_01 11:20

in that, you know, they can really be talking with a person and and trying to look at that person as a whole person and not just their, you know, their retirement account or you know, the IRA that they service or like whatever piece of it that there may be, but just trying to get to know that person as a whole person and you know, trying to to find out, like, well, like tell me about you and what are your goals, what's important to you. Do you have a sick child, you know, or a child that has a medical condition that you're going to have to care for, you know, for the rest of their lives? Do you have a, I don't know, like a very wealthy aunt who is going, like what's what's going to happen in your life? And so that that person can really be the the financial advisor can be someone who can really like stand on the side of the person and help them, you know, help lead them through through, you know, the various stages of their lives. And so I, you know, I think that they, you know, that they can play a very important role. And and trying to, even if you're not the, you know, if the the financial advisor is not the one that's going to certainly solve all of those problems, but you know, helping have being someone who can at least guide someone towards, you know, the financial advisor is likely to know about various things that the individual should be thinking about. And, you know, while you have to stay within your own lane and how you can help that individual person, being someone that the the worker, the individual that you're working with, can look to as, you know, kind of like a Sherpa that you can say, like, I don't deal with this, but you should really talk with someone who does this. And, you know, I don't deal with, but you should, you know, like trying to trying to be seen as the individual, as someone who really, you know, who they know like which part you play, you know, in that person's future planning, but you know, but are also looked at looked to as someone who's a very critical part of that financial planning, and you know, and and that they understand, you know, your value and how you can help them and how you can again just kind of like empower that person to be, you know, to be making the right decisions on their own and understanding what the various options, whether they're investment types or you know, just decisions to be made. So, so yeah, but I but I get that it's you know, it's a tricky place to be because trying to balance to explaining to a client, like, you know, where where the lines begin and end and like what they can and can't rely upon.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

So if you had a blank slate, what are one or two changes, whether it's policy or industry driven, that you think would move the needle faster?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Let me think about that for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

You know, I do think that if we could if we could think more about data that is available

Data Sharing And Fiduciary Clarity

SPEAKER_01 14:47

related to an individual saver, you know, you know, with data that we you know, you have a person and they have you know their financial information that is that all different types of financial information that is out there, right? Um bank accounts, you know, the home that they may own, additional homes that they may own, student loans that they owe, you know, like whether it's obligations or assets, everything tends to kind of be in all different places. And also just like understanding, again, the person from a holistic standpoint, what they need. And I've heard from so many people, you know, in so many different areas, whether it's talking with record keepers or talking with advisors or talking with HR people, plant sponsors, that there's a big desire to be able to have access to more information about a person so that you know they can serve the person in a more holistic way. And so, you know, so one major change I think would be to recognize that and try to work together to find ways to responsibly open up some of those, you know, pathways of data so that people can, you know, I'm talking about advisors being able to talk about other, you know, options, but you may, you know, an advisor may have a very, you know, small lane of information that they have about this person and they, you know, have no idea about the rest of it. And it's really, you know, becomes so much up to the individual to tell you, you know, about some of these other pieces. So, and I've talked about this in some other contexts that in, you know, in when you think about your medical information, pathways were opened so that, you know, doctors could talk with each other's hospitals, pharmacies, everybody. We don't have that same system set up in the more kind of financial and certainly retirement area or employer-sponsored benefits area. And, you know, while I I definitely recognize that there are security issues and, you know, you want to protect the individual at all costs, that there should be ways to make this so that we're not operating in all of these different silos. And that if we can, you know, open up more of that so that people can have more information about the individual that you serve and be able to be talking with, you know, with other people who are involved in that, then we'll, you know, then we'll be able to just serve the the individual better. So I think that that is that is one thing to try to address that and see how we can responsibly do that. I think the other thing, you know, one other thing that's just kind of top of mind for me because of everything that has been happening with the with you know, with the fiduciary rule, with, you know, what's happening with, I guess more on what's happening with the the whole, you know, discussion about alternatives and 401ks, and then, you know, ESG investments and you know, anything that might come up as the either concern of the day or the you know, the big, the new topic of the day as far as types of investments and in retirement plans. I I wish that I could just wave a wand and say, look, we have a regulation, you know, the reg we have a law. The law is ERISA. ERISA has certain fiduciary duties, and we have a very basic regulation that says, like, these are these are your responsibilities, plan sponsor, to look at. And and that when it comes to all of these different types of investments, like the the your responsibilities remain the same, and they don't change, like when you're talking about this type of investment or that type of investment. But and that all that we're going to do is try to, again, you know, empower you to be able to make good decisions. You know, we're not going to say that you can't do this and you can't do that, or you shouldn't do this, or you shouldn't do that. It's going to be with each thing, with each type of investment we're looking at, just what do you need to know? What do you need to be asking questions about? How can possibly the industry being, you know, be improved to better accommodate OrissaPlans, retirement advisors? Because right now, you know, just having been a former practitioner and then now having coming out of regulation, it one it's just a constant problem of like the back and forth, back and forth, you know, and also kind of inconsistent messaging. Because, you know, if you're going to be told, and I mean, and this happens, it's not like one administration over another, but if you're going to be told that, like, you know, certain types of investments, we should be taking our thumb off the scale and letting people do what they want to do. But other kinds of investments, we're going to put the thumb like totally on the scale and tell you what to do, then, you know, but that thumb may come off, you know, in four years or maybe put back on, or uh like what's a person to do? So I would love for there to just be like, forget everything that everybody was saying about these various types of investments and which regulation applies. There's this one regulation that applies, yeah, that applies to investments. And then there are these offshoots of guidance that, you know, when it for any specific thing, these are things to watch out for to ask about, you know, that whatever, when it might be the right thing to do, not the right thing to do, right thing for certain people. So that would be my magic wand. Let's just like start over.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

I think we would all appreciate that, trust me. Uh what do you see as the single biggest opportunity to close the coverage gap in America?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

You know, I think that as far as closing the coverage gap, I think one, you know, the the opportunities that are available, you know, on the state level with, you know, some of these programs that, you know, that offer for employees being able to have some form of coverage. I mean, that is,

Small Employer Plans And PEPs

SPEAKER_01 21:24

you know, that is definitely an opportunity. I also, you know, I do think that in the world of PEPS, that if if done correctly, if implemented correctly, and if particularly for small employers, because I know, you know, even for myself, having previously been a relatively small ish employer who was trying to offer uh retirement benefits to you know the employees of the firm, it is very daunting to take upon all of these responsibilities on your own. So So I do think that that PEPS, you know, can be a real game changer to be able to close that coverage gap. If, again, if things can be done in a way that is responsible and that employers understand like what they're there, it's not a set it and forget it, and you know, you don't have to worry about it. You handed everything off to someone. But, you know, but if it if things are established in a way that employers can feel that, you know, it it it is something that, you know, is way more manageable for them to undertake and they understand how it works and they have professionals that they, you know, can rely upon to guide them, then that, you know, hopefully will be, you know, will be very helpful. But and I and again, you know, I think the the other part is, you know, I know you told me one thing, but you know, I do think another part of it is trying to, again, really understanding like what the reasons for the coverage gap are and why aren't people saving more money? Or, you know, why aren't employers offering retirement plans? Like what are the things that are stopping them? And I know people have been asking these questions, but just continuing to ask these questions and and you know, I mean, trying to address the various problems that there are out there. I guess that's what I would okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

No, that's great. I really that I I really agree. I we've got to get more of these very small employers adopting plans, whether it's simple IRAs, whether it's PEPs, whether it's individual plans. I would love to see that. And I and I also think, you know, uh making people more aware of the tax credits that are available, because we in practice still see a lot of small employers, a lot of CPAs who are not aware of the tax credits, and a lot of a lot of small employers who are not aware. And then even when we set up a plan and tell them about the tax credits, they forget about them and their CPA doesn't know about them. So we're we're seeing a lot of those credits go unused. So um I think it's on us as an industry to keep just educating people as much as possible on the things that have been done to offset the cost for small employers to set up a plan.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah. No, I mean, I think that that is that is definitely true, you know, to try to, because employers, you know, I mean, their their main job is going to be running their business. Yeah. And so unless you either have, you know, employees who are who know enough to be able to really be, you know, trying to influence the employer, saying, This is important to me for you to, you know, but they need to know enough to be asking for that, or employers, and they're they're, you know, the people that they work with to understand all of the various benefits that you know offering a plan can provide to them, you know, aside from just having, you know, employee goodwill and like better treating your employees better, but you know, thinking, thinking of all of that. And then, you know, also just on the employee side, trying to have people understand from a young age, you know, teaching them in high school or earlier about like compounding and just how taking like, you know, even a small percent of your pay and put like how much that can help you, or and certainly like if your employer has an employer match, you know, just not walking away from those things. And, you know, yeah. So I I mean, I I do think it's I do think it's difficult. And I wonder too, even because there's so much thrown at you when you first start a job and trying to absorb, you know, everything that is coming into your brain when you're coming in. And you may not be ready to make some of these decisions or understand everything at that point, but having, you know, an employer, you know, really be dedicated to not just saying, like, you know, and I don't mean to say this in a dismissive way to employers, but that it's not enough to just say, welcome, here's your packet, join, and then never talk about it again. And say, Well, I offered them a plan, you know, because to your point, the employer's not going to get the benefit of having that person in the plan, and the person is not going to have the benefit of being in the plan. So it's a constant, you know, it's it's a constant conversation that has to happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

As you look ahead to this next chapter of your career, first tell us what you're doing and what impact do you most want to have on the retirement system?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah. So I am, I'm working as an independent consultant. I have my own consulting firm. And through that firm, I am I am still a lawyer. So I can still provide legal services, and I'm doing that with some plan sponsors on certain transactions. But I'm doing, you know, uh a wide number of things from providing

Lisa Gomez’s Next Career Chapter

SPEAKER_01 27:18

strategic policy advice on different types of entities who are looking for best ways to deal with the Department of Labor and EBSA on any given, you know, issue that they may want some insider advice on how to best approach that, to dealing with individuals who might have an investigation open with EBSA or who may be trying to obtain a political, excuse me, a prohibited transaction exemption, who might be looking for an advisory opinion, you know, different uh different ways in which I can be helpful to like how to best position yourself for that. I am working as an independent fiduciary for a fund that, you know, needed some direction there. So again, like whether on an individual transaction or just to for terminated plans moving forward, talking about that. And I am working with some clients on providing training on fiduciary issues or regulatory updates or how to work with departments. And, you know, that part of it has been a lot of a lot of fun because whether it's something to be provided for, you know, for your staff internally or externally for clients to be able to understand, you know, what's happening and how does it affect me. Because again, just having come from the outside of DC and outside of government world and perspective, to then having been there and seen what happens within the system and like how people take advantage of it, how people are not taking advantage of it, and then coming out of it and trying to take all of that experience to help people themselves be impactful and to succeed. Those are, you know, different things that I am doing. So anyway, it's been just definitely continuing to, you know, speak at conferences, to go to conferences. And I get the, you know, the best part of me getting information is and sort of learning more how I can be impactful is by going to conferences or listening to webinars, but just taking in, you know, I say I'm in sponge mode right now, just taking it all in and listening to what people are saying and problems that people are having and where they face challenging challenges, and then trying to figure out for myself how I can be helpful to them, whether it's, you know, it's great if people hire me, but even if, you know, people just want to chat or help me point them in the right direction, anything like that. But anyway, it's been fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

It's evolving. That's awesome. I'm I'm so happy for you. For plan sponsors and advisors listening, what's one thing you would challenge them to do differently starting tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I would challenge them to take a step back from kind of like what they are doing on a day-to-day and have been doing on a day-to-day, as far as you know, delivering benefits and their, you know, what's in their plan, what's in their, you know, investment structure,

Rethink Plan Design And Governance

SPEAKER_01 30:40

how they like just how they are operating on a day-to-day, to stay take a step back and you know, start thinking about it's it's difficult. I'm not gonna say that this isn't you know a different difficult task that I'm giving because I know that it's hard to just kind of get through the day-to-day. But it it is worth step taking a step back and thinking about, you know, the various things that you do provide, the benefits that you provide, the people that you work with, how you deliver benefits, what your employees want, and like looking at these individual pieces with a fresh eye, like either trying to do it on your own or talking with someone else to get a different perspective and thinking about like, does that still work? You know, should we be thinking about something in a different way? And even taking that to looking at your own, you know, your plan document and like look like looking at like what do we, you know, what do we actually do and offer here? And does it still make sense? But kind of like, you know, taking that step, taking, you know, maybe like once a quarter, you know, if you if that's all that you can do, but saying, like, I don't know, on the 15th of the third month, I'm always going to do this and I'm going, I'm going to take that step back and and think about like why are we really doing this? And is it is it working? But just to to challenge yourself to to that. And because I do think that too often it's, you know, it's we all have very busy lives and lots of things. But you know, to to take the time to do that. I guess, and you know, because I can never just give you one answer, my second thing would be just to like also as part of that, like just revisit your governance system and make sure that, you know, you haven't like things haven't fallen by the wayside as far as like what you document, how you because at the end of the day, all of that is going to be the most important thing. Like, how did you get to any decision? So making sure that from a governance standpoint, that that is not forgotten as you go through all of the different changes and implementing things and you know, yeah, like your core governance structure is intact and strong because that's going to be your best protection at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Yeah. No, I I love that taking the time to reevaluate your plan. Because I mean, small employers, they're busy, right? I mean, we for our clients, we offer them the opportunity to sit down and review their plan as far as the, because we do compliance side. Um, so all we do is compliance, but we offer them the opportunity, like, let's sit down, let's look at your 5,500, let's look at your financial statements. And we can do that, you know, in conjunction with the financial advisor. And the record keepers have so many reports now that they can give you to show you like what's your rate of participation. They can get it down to like this age group is participating at this level, and this age group is participating at this level, so that you can kind of see what you know, what your financial wellness of your participants looks like. What does their savings look like? But so many of our clients are like, I don't have time for that. Just send me the report. I'm gonna file the 5,500 and we'll talk next year. And so I agree, you know, even if it's just once a year sitting down and reviewing, like, let's do a plan design review, let's look at everything that Secure offered. Do we need those things? Is that just gonna complicate things? So I think I think that's great. I think that's great.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah, no, and and certain things, and certain things, like just on that note, you know, I definitely would hear from plan sponsors that like there are paths that have been opened through Secure 2.0 that are voluntary, like you don't have to do these things, but they could be helpful. And I would hear so often from plan sponsors that like there are so many things that I have to do that I can't focus on the things that I don't have to do. But when you look at some of those things, like for example, emergency savings accounts, you know, it could be that based on your employee population, that that is the reason. Like if you talked with people and they said, I don't want to put money away because I am living, you know, my financial situation is such that I'm terrified that if there's an emergency, I'm not gonna be able to access this money. And if you can put something in there that will avoid, you know, so that like if they need a new set of tires, right? So yeah, so trying to, it's kind of like thinking it, but again, I I do not, you know, I I don't mean to make this nobody, nobody is going to come at this and say, like, come on, you know, yeah, you need to make time. I know it's difficult, but in the long run, it could it could work out, you know, much better. And and also sometimes looking at your appeals, like I would always tell clients to, like, even if somebody is handling most of your benefit appeals, to to make sure that you're getting reports and you're really paying attention to those reports, like, where are the appeals happening? Because it could be that you have a lot of claims getting denied because the language isn't clear enough, or because, or you're looking and saying, well, wait a minute, like our my employees need this. Everybody's appealing for it. You know, everybody's putting in claims and they're getting denied. And can we do something about that? Because that's something like I really want to be able to pay for. So, like trying to find these little spots where you can take a deeper look into your plan and whether it's best serving both the company and the employees rather than just, you know, getting into the spot that's so easy for all of us to get into where you're just going through the motions and filing, you know, hopefully doing all your compliance stuff, checking all the boxes at the end of the day, it's not serving anybody in the way it best can.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Right. No, I agree. And, you know, sitting down, because I know like service providers like like us and like the financial advisor, we have access to a lot of information on things that are available throughout the industry that the client doesn't have access to. So, like if you don't want to do emergency savings inside your plan, well, I know of a company called Sunny Day Fund who will do it outside of your outside of your plan, right? If if you don't want to do emergency savings, well, maybe you could do the emergency distribution that is now allowed. Or, you know, if your pain point is I hate submitting contributions every pay period, I don't have time. Well, okay, let's talk about payroll integrators and how can we take that off your plate. And so just sitting down once a year and talking to your service providers can like solve some of those pain points. If you just take an hour to sit down and and and find out and discuss, okay, these are the problems I'm having, or this is what I see with my employees, and just kind of brainstorm.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

So I think that's I think that's well and hopefully, well, and hopefully, like consultants will do more of like what you're talking about. That's kind of because what you're talking about is stepping away from the usual, like, I need to talk to you about, you know, talk with you about X, Y, and Z. Right. And kind of like using your wave a magic wand analogy and telling your, you know, the client, telling the employer, if you could wage forget about everything that I've told you about how, you know, how your plan works, whatever. If you could wave a magic wand and, you know, be like having a plan that did things, like what are those things? Because it may be that they don't know that those things are possibilities, you know, like how can how can we make this better? But it's, you know, it is hard to take the time to do that. But I think in the long run it's really helpful. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Final, final question. I have I have so enjoyed this. But final question.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

This is great.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

What gives you the most optimism about the future of the retirement of retirement in America?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

What gives me the most optimism is that there are that there that I have just really learned that there are so many people who are

Optimism And A Listener Invitation

SPEAKER_01 39:05

really truly genuinely dedicated to improving the system and and and that are looking for ways to do that. And, you know, it may be that sometimes we're not doing in the most efficient way, or we're not as, you know, well guided as we should be, or you know, but that like at its core, just to have so many people who are, again, I keep using, but like smart, mission-driven people with good intentions who want to truly see things get better, and you know, and and maybe need some more guidance and paths and you know, ways to do that. But, you know, but there is, you know, there there is a it's a great community of people. And and I think that like that is the most important, that is the most important thing. Like, I don't know, there's a quote in there somewhere that I'm forgetting, but it's like, you know, group of well-intentioned people can change the world. It's something like that. But, you know, I mean, I think at the if if you don't have that, that that is what I'm most hopeful about. That I I really have learned that, you know, while there's always like bad apples everywhere, right? The the community is, you know, by far made up of people who are really looking for change. And that, you know, if we just continue to to go at it and don't settle for, you know, that anything is good enough or we've tried hard enough that, you know, we can we can continue to find answers to these, you know, to to making the system better and better. So that's, you know, I I have, you know, have faith in in the people that make up this this industry to just keep pushing it forward and not accept, you know, that we're gonna stand still. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Yeah, my friends and I talk about all the time how lucky we are to have found an industry to work in where we change people's lives every day, but we also get to work with people who feel the same way we do and are passionate about it and want to change people's lives. And not only that, but it's a very collaborative industry. Like everybody, it's it's more collaborative than I'm gonna compete against you or you're gonna steal my client. Instead, we're all coming together and lifting each other up to improve the industry and make everybody's lives better. It's just such a it's such a unique industry. It just is amazing to get to work in. And then to have, you know, an organization like ARA who's pushing it all forward for us too is I mean, they're an amazing group of people to have the opportunity to work with too. So totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Totally agree. So lucky. It's been and I have definitely been very thankful and grateful to be benefiting my own self, like myself personally, because I came into this as like the Washington outsider who is Lisa Gomez, you know, coming from my own. And, you know, and and I have met so many people and continue to be. I mean, this has been, you know, a great thing for you and I to talk, but but I do genuinely, you know, feel that people are trying to, you know, are trying to lift each other up and to, you know, and to and to try to just make things work. And sometimes we all need a little help about how to get there, but but yeah, no, so it's it has been, you know, it has been wonderful. And also to keep each other accountable along the way, where it's like, you think you're helping, but you're really not. Can we talk about this? You know, so sometimes you it takes your best friends to tell you where you might have like fallen off the, you know, yeah, the the best laid path. So yeah, but I I I do. I I I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

So well, good. Well, we're lucky to have you. So thank you again for joining us today. I really appreciate it. And thank thank you to everyone listening. Um, we will have Lisa's contact information in the show notes. And if you have an idea that you want to share with our audience on how to help close the savings gap and the coverage gap that we have in America, in America's retirement savings, please be sure to get a hold of me. I would love to have you on. And hopefully we'll have you back next month listening in again. Thank you. Thanks so much, Shannon.