Why Women's 401(k) Balances Fall Behind—and How to Change It - with Erika Goodwin & Madison Oakley

Episode Intro: The GAP with Erika Goodwin and Madison Oakley

Women retire later, live longer, and often try to do it with less money and less margin for error. That isn’t a personal failure, it’s a system of pay gaps, caregiving interruptions, and uneven access to workplace retirement plans colliding over decades. We sit down with Erika Goodwin and Madison Oakley from the American Retirement Association to introduce the first annual National Women’s Retirement Security Day and explain why it’s designed as a call to action, not just another date on the calendar.

Episode Description:

We dig into the stats that should make plan sponsors and advisors pay attention, including how women’s 401(k) balances can be dramatically lower than men’s and how small differences in contribution rates turn into thousands of dollars when income is lower. We also talk about the practical fixes that already work in the private retirement system, like expanding access to employer-sponsored retirement plans, automatic enrollment, and automatic escalation, plus what recent retirement legislation has unlocked for small employers and savers juggling student loans and long-term goals.

Then we get tactical. We share how RaiseHER gives communities a ready-to-use financial literacy program, what success looks like in year one, and the simplest actions anyone can take right now: log into your account, reset your password, check your contribution rate, confirm beneficiaries, and ask HR who you can call for help. We also talk about the added hurdles women of color face, and why the most powerful form of advocacy can start with one conversation at a cookout or dinner table.

If you want clearer next steps, better language to talk about retirement, and resources you can trust, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend or colleague, and leave a review so more people can find Women’s Retirement Security Day and join the movement.

Guest Bio: Madison Oakley

Madison is the Advocacy Engagement Manager for the American Retirement Association (ARA). In this role, she executes strategies aimed at enhancing member engagement in advocacy initiatives, including D.C. Fly-in meetings for constituents, grassroots advocacy campaigns, and the Political Action Committee. She also facilitates volunteer committee activities for ARA members, including the Thrive Mentoring Program for women, Third Thursdays with Women in Retirement, and the ASPPA and NAPA Government Affairs Committees. 

Madison has a background in political fundraising. Prior to joining ARA, she spent four years Molly Allen Associates LLC where she was responsible for PAC fundraising strategies for several Members of Congress and candidates. Previously, she was Deputy Finance Director for a congressional campaign in Nevada and interned for a Senate campaign in Wisconsin. Madison has a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science and Critical Identity Studies from Beloit College, and a Certificate in PAC and Grassroots Management.

Madison lives in Arlington, VA with her husband and two cats. In her spare time, she enjoys knitting, crocheting, reading, and spending time with friends.

Guest Bio: Erika Goodwin

Erika Goodwin is the Director of Advocacy Engagement at the American Retirement Association (ARA), where she leads select advocacy engagement strategy at the federal level and grass top engagement to advance retirement security solutions.

Erika leads Women's Retirement Security Day, a national initiative focused on raising awareness of the challenges women face in preparing for retirement and bringing together advocates, policymakers, and industry leaders around solutions. She has also led several initiatives to advance women and expand opportunity within the retirement industry, including the Women in Retirement Conference (WiRC), the Nourishing Our Wealth and Thrive mentoring programs, the ARA Council for Women, and efforts to create pathways for HBCU students to earn ARA professional certificates.

A graduate of Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, Erika holds Project Management Professional (PMP) and Certified Meeting Professional (CMP) designations. Outside of work, she is an urban farmer and a Caribbean carnival enthusiast.

Contact Our Guests:

Madison Oakley
Advocacy Engagement Manager
American Retirement Association
MOakley@usaretirement.org
703-516-9300

Erika Goodwin
Director of Advocacy Engagement
American Retirement Association
EGoodwin@usaretirement.org
703-516-9300

Website: https://www.usaretirement.org

Transcript

Speaker 3 0:53

Welcome back to The Gap, the podcast where we tackle one of the biggest challenges in America today, closing the retirement savings and coverage gaps, while also shining a light on what's actually working in our system. I'm Shannon Edwards, your host and owner of TriStar Pension Consulting. I would like to welcome all listeners to our podcast with a special welcome to those of you listening for the first time. Today, I am thrilled to welcome two women I deeply respect, admire, and consider personal friends, Erika Goodwin and Madison Oakley from the American Retirement Association. Through my work with ARA, I have had the privilege of working closely with both of them, and I have seen firsthand the passion, energy, and commitment they bring to strengthening the private retirement system and expanding opportunities for women. Erika has been with the ARA for more than a decade and now serves as director of advocacy engagement. I first worked closely with Erika during the early years of the Women

Welcome And Meet The Guests

Speaker 3 1:46

in Retirement Conference and later through the ARA Council for Women, Thrive, and Third Thursday. Erika has been a driving force behind so many of the initiatives that have helped women in our industry connect, lead, mentor, and support one another. Erika is a builder. She builds programs, she builds community, and she builds momentum. Madison serves as advocacy engagement manager at ARA, where she helps members advocate for policies that protect and strengthen the employer-sponsored retirement system. She brings a strong background in advocacy, fundraising, grassroots engagement, and women's policy issues. And she has quickly become an important voice in this work. Today, Erika and Madison join me to talk about the first annual National Women's Retirement Security Day, why this recognition is so important, and how ARA and the Raise Her Initiative are working to improve financial confidence and retirement security for women across the country. This is not just another awareness day, it is a call to action. This conversation is exactly what this podcast is about celebrating the success of the private retirement system while also asking how we can do more to close the savings and coverage gaps. Erika and Madison, thank you both for being here.

Speaker 1 2:58

Well, thank you, Shannon, for having us. I mean, I don't know that we would say yes to just anyone. So it is a pleasure to join you.

Speaker 3 3:06

Well, I am so glad that we could make this happen. Erika, you've been a part of ARA's women focused work for years. What first drew you to this mission?

Speaker 1 3:18

I think starting at the American Retirement Association, I started as a temp in the conferences department and was happy to support logistically the work of the organization. But it became clear that I didn't just have the opportunity to work here, but I had the opportunity to learn alongside all of the members. Working in the conference team, I would sit in your session rooms and I would glean so much information and realize there were conversations that I wasn't privy to, that I wasn't in the room for, but my family and my community could benefit from. And that really opened my eyes up to the potential.

Speaker 3 3:56

Madison, your background includes political fundraising and advocacy. How did that path lead you to the retirement security?

Speaker 4:05

Yeah, thank you. So you're correct. I have a background in political fundraising and campaign

How Erica And Madison Found This Work

Speaker 4:11

work. And so retirement, you know, growing up was not really something that I was necessarily interested in. My dad would tell me about the importance of saving and, you know, the investment options available to me. And it would go in one ear and out the other. And it wasn't until I got my first 401k at my previous job before I came to ARA that the thought of retirement really became real. And around this same time at 57, my dad retired from a 30 plus year career at State Farm. So that, you know, for me, that's when retirement became, you know, something that I had to think about. And, you know, I thought that's amazing that he could retire before 60. That sounds really appealing to me. I'd like to do that. So that's one of my goals. And, you know, coming to the now work at the ARA, I've learned so much about the importance of, you know, the work that we do here and our mission of making sure that everybody can have, you know, what my dad has and being able to retire with dignity.

Speaker 3 5:13

Erika, when you look back at those early women in retirement conference days, what stands out now?

Speaker 1 5:20

Oh my gosh, Shannon. Uh what stands out is the network of women that I never expected to meet and didn't know that I needed. It's been a privilege to work alongside so many amazing women like yourself who've been on the planning committees and volunteering because each of you all are powerhouses to be in a male-dominated industry in the first place. And then many of you to be business owners yourselves. I got to see and glean a little bit of courage from you all to, you know, be a little, stand a little taller, try a little harder, push a little bit more in my own professional life and to aim for more. But what really stands out is all the late nights that we had where I had to sneak away to get away from you guys in order to get up and go to work the next morning. But it was a lot of fun. And of course, starting out with you and knowing that you were a committee member back then at that first conference in Vermont that I staffed, all the way up until now you becoming the president of ASPA, one of our sister organizations. I was so very proud when you took the stage and took the helm because I remember where you started from and I was right next to you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 6:34

Um, Madison, what surprised you most when you entered the retirement policy world?

Speaker 6:41

I don't know. I'm I guess just how close-knit the community is. You know, I've learned that a lot of the the folks in this industry got started because, you know, they had a parent who worked in the retirement industry and they're, you know, they're taking on their small business or, you know, following their lead. I think, you know, the retirement industry is not something that a lot of people consider when thinking about what careers are available to them. And so those who are in this community, like especially the actuaries are which are like the smallest sister organization that we have at around 500 strong. They're so close knit. Everybody knows everybody. They're, you know, they have a a Google chat or they're they're chatting all the time about, you know, the issues that they're they're coming to see in their work. And I think that's one thing that's been so amazing and the thing that I really love the most about this industry and this organization.

Speaker 3 7:38

Yeah, it's it's a pretty special one and it's very collaborative. I will I will give you that. Erika, do you remember the moment you thought women in this industry need a bigger platform?

Speaker 1 7:49

Hmm. I think it could be a lot of little moments, but really to make it more personal. My mother was a school teacher in DC public schools. And when she she had a vision to retire and wanted to, you know, work till 60, but was injured on the job. And at that time, there was no such thing as the Americans with Disabilities Act. And so there was no law that said that her job had to accommodate or make accommodations for her to continue to work. So she had to retire early. So it was nowhere near time for her to retire, even though she had been saving diligently. And she ended up, she lives off of Social Security now. And so I see that story up close and personal. And I also have the contrast of my sister, who worked for 30 years and retired just in the middle of COVID. She

Why Women Need A Bigger Platform

Speaker 1 8:42

worked one job her whole career and saved a little bit and was able to get to the goal. So, somewhere in between my mother's story and my sister's story, I realized that the information that our members have can change lives of many people and also can change generational trajectory. In the Black community, there's like 56% of Black Americans have zero dollars in retirement assets at all. And so it has become a very personal and important mission for me to work alongside my colleagues to try to close that retirement savings gap one woman at a time.

Speaker 3 9:21

When ASPA TPAs and Napa advisors came together for the women's conference, what changed in the room?

Speaker 1 9:29

I think what changed in the room was making your own room. I think it was Virginia Wolf. I was an English major and undergrad, so she wrote a story about a room of one's own. And I think that is what happened is when the TPA women and the advisor women came together, you created space for yourselves to have the conversations that were important to not only motivate you all, but keep you in the industry. You also began to create a network and change the environment in terms of being collaborative. Shannon, I remember you saying for years that what is it, men compare, women share. And I think that legacy still lives on. So when you created that space, you changed the legacy in the industry. There was also a famous picture of uh the first Napa, one of the first Napa summits, and there was maybe a handful of women in the bathroom, and there was only a handful of you guys. So you took a selfie in the bathroom, and then years later, there was another photo when there was actually a line for the women's bathroom that was like an unofficial indicator that the women's conference was bleeding over into the other industry events, and that it was more welcoming space for women to collaborate and to be educated amongst your colleagues.

Speaker 3 10:43

Yeah, it really has changed the look of the sister organizations when you go to the larger conferences now. So, and it's really it's exciting to see what sparked the idea for the ARA Council for Women.

Speaker 1 10:56

Yeah, you guys wore me down. So, in my tenure in the conference department, as I worked on the women in retirement conference or work as it was then, there were additional requests that naturally came about in terms of opportunities to create a mentorship program. And there was one of the five organizations that are under the ARA umbrella had a mentoring program. And a second organization said, We'd like one too. And I said, Well, wait, it doesn't make sense for you guys to start over from scratch. A lot of the requests that you have, they bridge across all five sister organizations. So why don't you guys form a committee so that you can share resources and work towards the same goal collaboratively? And then the Council for Women was born.

Speaker 3 11:47

And it's a very important council. You guys have done some really good work.

Speaker 1 11:52

Um, we have great volunteers.

Speaker 3 11:55

Well, we have some fantastic women all throughout the organization. I'll I will give you that. So, and I've gotten to work with a lot of them and love it. Um, what was the catalyst for Women's Retirement Security Day?

Speaker 1 12:09

Another great question. I think Madison had already joined the team at a point where we were acknowledging pay equity days as a part of our advocacy work. Maybe about three years ago, we started to fold over advocacy goals into the scope of the Council for Women. And one of the first forays into that space was to acknowledge pay equity day. So there's Women's Equal Pay Day, Black Women's Equal Pay Day, Latina Women's Equal Pay Day, so on and so forth throughout the year. And we were in a team meeting with our CEO Brian Graff, and we were talking about that project. And he said it was a worthwhile effort. And while pay equity is one of the underlying reasons why women oftentimes don't have a secure retirement, it didn't sit squarely within our mission at ARA. And so we took another look and said, well, there isn't a day that actually talks about women's

Building The Council For Women

Speaker 1 13:02

retirement security. So why don't we create one? And so Women's Retirement Security Day was born.

Speaker 3 13:08

Awesome. What statistics should make plan sponsors and advisors stop and pay attention to this day?

Speaker 1 13:18

Well, you could talk about a lot of stats like women's 401k balances being approximately 65% lower than men's. I mean, that goes back to that pay equity as well. We've talked to some really amazing women in the industry economists recently as a part of this initiative who point out other opportunities or disparities in employment opportunities, time off for caregiving, that also dampens a woman's ability to earn a paycheck and the thus to save for retirement. But I think that's one of the startling statistics. And even if you look at women contributing an average of 6.4% of their income to retirement plans compared to 6.7 for men, it sounds pretty much like neck and neck. But when you look at how much they're actually making, that's a difference of $6,103 for men compared to $4,521 for women. So if we don't make as much, we simply cannot save as much. So that was one that I think should make everyone stand up and take notice.

Speaker 3 14:22

How does the caregiving and longevity and access, how does all that collide for women?

Speaker 1 14:33

I think access is a great question. One of the areas that ARA advocates for on a regular basis is access to a workplace retirement plan. We know that savers are more likely to save when they have a plan at work. We know that small employers oftentimes have challenges with offering retirement plans, but due to some recent legislation in Secure 2.0, we've made it more accessible for people to actually, um, employers to start a plan and be able to offset some of the costs to start a plan. But it's just simply right there in front of you. Um, a lot of times people contribute through auto enrollment where a person will automatically be enrolled into a retirement plan and they don't even notice the money that is not going into their take-home pay. And then auto features like auto-escalate also help them move the needle towards getting getting their retirement savings up where they should be. Um, so I think those are you know two things that really help out to close the gap.

Speaker 3 15:38

Okay, Madison, now you. What does it take to turn advocacy into action?

Speaker 15:44

It takes a village. That's that's definitely what we've learned. And, you know, I think that's the the point of this campaign is for it not to be squarely in this industry. You know, our goal is not just for ARA members to participate, it is for everybody because you know, what we know is that they don't talk about retirement in schools. This isn't something that's taught in high school, maybe in college, if you know you're majoring in finance, but really it takes having conversations at the dinner table with your family members or your spouse or you know, sitting at book club with your friends and somebody's talking about the, you know, their own retirement plan. And so, you know, this is I think what advocacy looks like. It's not, it doesn't have to be just going to the hill and meeting with your members of Congress, although that is part of it. It's also just having conversations and you know, taking care of those in your life that you love.

Speaker 3 16:50

So Women's Retirement Security Day now has tools and resources and partners. What does success look like in the first year?

Speaker 1 16:59

Oh my goodness, success looks like we got to the day. We didn't realize how much it would take to actually create a new advocacy day. We like to say that we are building the plane as we are flying it. But thanks to our team here at ARA, we are we're in pretty good shape. We're four weeks out from the day, and we think that success looks like partners in the industry having the tools to shape the day that aligns with their company's mission. So this isn't a day that we created for ARA's sake. It's for the sake of all working women in the United States. So we're hoping that companies across the country will find our tools online and participate in the campaign online in whatever way that looks appropriate for them. We've heard some people say that they're going to have sessions with their ERGs, that some people are going to participate in the social media campaign. We've even gotten our mothers and my sister, our own family members to participate in the campaign by sharing short testimonials about what they would tell their younger self about retirement. And it's amazing what people would say. So we are asking folks, you know, success would look like people talking to one another, sharing stories, and sparking thoughts and conversations that will lead them to a resource. So the purpose of having partners on this day on our website is so that people can go to resources and learn more. We don't think that we're going to solve everything in one day, but we want to bring awareness to it and point people in the right direction

Creating Women’s Retirement Security Day<br>

Speaker 1 18:34

to resources they can trust.

Speaker 3 18:36

How does RaiseHER fit into the bigger movement?

Speaker 1 18:41

Well, RaiseHur is an initiative that was created by one of our five sister organizations, the National Tax Savings Deferred Association. A couple of years ago, they started their own initiative to increase the education and financial literacy of women across the country, and they created a RaiseHer platform, which is a teaching model. So there is a tool that they have created, including a PowerPoint and supplementary materials. Folks can go onto their website and become a certified instructor through their program and facilitate their own financial literacy session. So it's especially designed for school teachers with school teachers in mind to be able to go and download those materials and implement them into their own communities.

Speaker 3 19:28

Okay. What makes Razher practical for advisors and plan sponsors?

Speaker 1 19:35

I think it's practical because it's not branded for any one industry. A lot of times, you know, our members have to go through compliance approvals. It is accessible and available and editable so they can actually have a tool at their fingertips. Oftentimes when Madison and I are looking for volunteers to teach in schools or to at community events, financial literacy sessions, the number one request from those that we're asking is do you have a deck? And so RaiseHER serves as that deck that's readily available for advisors and industry professionals to use.

Speaker 3 20:13

So the goal for Razer is to reach one million women in five years.

Speaker 1 20:19

Why that big? Why not? I think when NTSA created the program, they were seeing the extensive opportunity and ability to educate women. If you look at the US population, I think the number is pretty fitting. And we know that women are the center of many communities. And once you teach something to a woman, she's usually teaching it to her community and to her family. So if they could get to that goal, even if it's not in five years, I think that it can change the trajectory of communities for a long, long time.

Speaker 3 20:59

So where do you all where do you all see the private retirement system is already helping women succeed? Oh Madison, you want to take a shot at that?

Speaker 21:11

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the the work that we've done already with Secure and Secure 2.0 in the last years, like anything that expands access to retirement plans, period, helps women. So, you know, things like savers being able to put money away into their student loans and also get the company match for their retirement plan, that's that's huge for for both men and women. You know, things like automatic enrollment. I think the statistic is something like when when participants are automatically enrolled in their retirement plan, 90%, upwards of 90% will stay in their plan. That's huge. So, you know, anything that we've done so far I think benefits women, you know, and the reason that we have we're starting Women's Retirement Security Day is because there's still more to be done. You know, the gap between men and women saving for retirement still exists. And really, you know, one of the biggest pieces of that is the caregiving gap. Although the, you know, the stereotype that women are caregivers has kind of gone away. The reality remains that women do become caregivers for not only children, but also, you know, they're in the sandwich generation, they're also caring for their parents or you know, siblings or loved ones. And, you know, it's it's hard to be a full time caregiver and also have a job. So a lot of women are leaving the workforce entirely for, you know, a number of years and you know, not being able to put any money. way, you know, whether it's a year or a decade, that adds up. And so, you know, being able to, you know, have some sort of safety net for those women who are taking time off is really important. And that's something that, you know, we're hoping to see within the next couple of years.

Speaker 3 23:14

Madison, what has advocacy taught you about persistence?

Speaker 23:21

I think it's taught me that advocacy never stops. Like I was saying with secure

The Numbers Behind The Retirement Gap

Speaker 23:26

and secure 2.0, you know, these laws are passed, our members are now figuring out what they need to do to change their plans in order to be compliant with these new laws. And at the same time we're working on secure 3.0. So you know it's a it's a vicious cycle. And every time a member comes to us saying that, oh, you know, I'm having this one issue with this this one plan sponsor. Is there something that we can do? You know, is there a legislative fix that would help us? We say let's look at that. Like this you might not be the only one that's having this issue is is there actually a legislative fix? And a lot of times there is. And so we continue to move the needle and you know we continue to pass laws that benefit our members and savers around the country.

Speaker 3 24:20

What have the women in ARA taught both of you?

Speaker 24:26

I'll start I think what I've I've learned and I I knew this before coming to ARA but I've learned that the women are the ones who get things done. You know if if you need something in a pinch I know who to call and it's it's usually a woman who's in leadership you know and I think a testament to that is like our mentorship program that we have for women called Thrive. This is something that was started by the Council for Women. And we I've seen that not only do people come in asking for a mentor but they're like I want both. I want to be a mentee I want to mentor people as well or they'll come in as a mentee and then afterwards they're like I'm ready to mentor the next generation you know I feel that it's my duty because I think a lot of the women in the industry have been you know they have shared experiences. And so that's something that there's something that each of them can teach to each other.

Speaker 1 25:37

Erika I would say I mean the women at ARA have have taught me so much. I feel like I've had a lot of informal mentors who have been cheerleaders along the way I see you guys and I know that you see us too. Mostly the women I think here have reinforced for me that it's okay to carve out space for yourself. Meaning it's okay to hold space for women in the industry year after year you all reaffirm that despite what's going on in the rest of the world in our industry and in your association you will continue to place the women's initiatives at the top of the list to make sure they are they remain and that you all are always looking to replicate yourselves in a way. So you're always reaching back to pull someone forward and to hold someone up and like Madison that's a a value that I already held close to to my own self and uh is one that I live by myself but you all demonstrate it year after year. And it's a one thing to see it in practice in a conference room and it's another thing to see it like at the board level in leadership. We also have the privilege of supporting a number of women in senior leadership and the organization and that is I think inspirational not only to our staff but to the membership as well.

Speaker 3 27:09

Agreed agreed how do you think we can make the topic of retirement and saving feel more approachable and not so overwhelming.

Speaker 1 27:19

You know this week we have two summer interns with us this summer and one is a young lady her name is Paige she just graduated from Howard University and I took her with me to a networking event for women in government relations on Capitol Hill and we were in the Rayburn building and we're thinking of ways to kind of go viral and talk about retirement like what can we ask people? And I say you know what Paige you just graduated from college. I wonder I think everyone in this room would remember what year they graduated from high school or college but how many women know what year they're going to retire? And so we started asking them the question you know hey how are you? What year did you graduate from high school and what year will you retire? And it gave women pause. And so it's a very simple question but it's a big idea that you have to set a goal. And I think that is something that you know a goal that we don't often think about until one person that we spoke to said she didn't think about until her peers started retiring at work. And that, you know, people have to start wherever they are it's never too late. But I think you know that is one thing that could shift the conversation is just to ask the question what year are you going to retire? Or what does retirement look like for you? What does it mean to you? I think that by virtue of working here, when I first got here retirement and my community always looked like the job you would do after the job you did for the majority of your career it was the next job. It wasn't actually a date where we would stop working. And I like to continue to see people change their mind about what retirement means for them by taking action and you know taking advantage of resources.

Speaker 3 29:03

What do you think the biggest barrier to closing the gaps that women have in not

Access At Work And Auto Features

Speaker 3 29:10

well obviously we we know how to close the gap in coverage we got to get more people sponsoring plans but in closing the savings gap what do you think the biggest barrier is pay equity equity I think we talked with some economists and labor experts yes just yesterday we were recording a podcast for Women's Retirement Security Day and job opportunities and looking at the pay that women have and also looking at the jobs that women typically work.

Speaker 1 29:40

A lot of women work lower paid hourly jobs a lot of women don't realize that if they're not an hourly job it's up to them to advocate for themselves to be able to get a promotion or to share information amongst one another to know when your pay is not equitable and to become your own advocate.

Speaker 3 30:01

That is something that is going to be essential if we don't ask we don't get yeah I know um so when I was in my 20s I was at a CPA firm and I've probably told you this before but I was not getting pay increases. I had just had a baby I was expected to work hundreds of hours of overtime a year you know and so I packed up and left and started my own business. I decided to heck with this I'm going to be my own boss and I'm going to create a place for women to be able to work and still have a family but build a good career. Unfortunately there's not a lot of women out there that can just say to heck with this, I'm going to go start my own and and do it the way I want to do it. So it's it is really difficult when they're in those lower paid jobs and when they're not getting the raises that the men are getting and things like that. So and you know I know back back then too it was like oh well the woman has to take off and take the baby so you know to the doctor or go to the school programs. So the man's here working all the time that's why he makes more he's more reliable whatever so luckily I think those things are shifting some I think those views are shifting some there's a lot more women working now but I don't know.

Speaker 1 31:19

Yeah and it also seems to be like a long long time ago the belief was that men were the caregivers or the primary breadwinners and so they were taking care of a wife and a child and so women were staying home. They weren't working but that was eons ago. Yeah that was a long time ago it's not the case anymore and you know we've seen progress like I just turned 50 this year and I know that it was just a little over 50 years ago that women were able to take out their own loans or open a bank account without the signature of a man. So that has been just about a little over my lifetime. So with changes like that in the law that allows women to actually have ownership and autonomy over their own finances. And I think it's important to remember things like that to know that it wasn't always the case to even appreciate our opportunities in front of us now. Yeah I agree.

Speaker 3 32:20

What do you think keeps women from engaging early enough in these conversations?

Speaker 1 32:26

I think it's the same thing that stops any person male or female from engaging in the conversation it's just not something that is a topic that is brought up. We are taught in school to prepare to take a job but we're not prepared or taught how to end a job. And so I think that that's the biggest obstacle is talking about a person's full life cycle and what you want every stage of your life to look like we're learning from the stories we're collecting that retirement is not the end. The retirement is the beginning of new opportunities for people to live how they want to and to pursue other goals.

Speaker 3 33:09

I think that type of conversation could change things how do we make sure women's retirement security day becomes a movement and not a moment I don't know Shannon how you tell us how do we do it we built the day for you and your peers like how do we do that you tell us what do we need to do well I mean I think first we're doing it here right just the more we can talk on podcasts about it the more we can get it out in social media the more we can get people here locally in our own communities involved. I mean I don't think like I said I I don't think it's going to happen in one year.

Speaker 1 33:51

Yeah it's not we are also as a team working on what we hope will be a congressional resolution. So we're not stopping with like the online campaigning we're also socializing these ideas on the hill to bring awareness to our representatives in hopes that it will become a part of you know the

Advocacy That Starts At Home

Speaker 1 34:13

their talking points and that they'll help to expand the message to their communities back home in their districts. So I think it'll take a community just as this campaign is not focused on just one person. There are personas in the campaign so there's the saver who's this star, the center of it all and the idea is that the saver doesn't get to the goal alone. There's the saver, there's the teacher who's teaching and picking up on financial literacy lessons at any age wherever a person is there's the mentor that's you know your cheerleader in your corner saying you know you got this you can do it a little bit at a time there's the advocate who's working on legislation or even the saver at some point has to become her own advocate. And so these personalities are all necessary including a visionary who we think as the financial advisor the financial services professional who sets the big picture to say it's actually possible.

Speaker 3 35:17

So we think that in community it can become viral more people can get to the goal but it's none of this is done in isolation what do you need more of partners presenters employers advisors or awareness savers.

Speaker 1 35:34

We need we yeah you know I think we need more share we need more savers telling their stories we really as we work with the planning committee we would start with an hour long call and our calls would go to 90 minutes easily because one topic led to another topic to another topic and we realized that is how savers learn in community in conversations conversations make it approachable and digestible so we need more conversations. We need more people actually saying this is my retirement year or I wish I knew this if I could tell my younger self blank about retirement this is what I would say. If I could abolish one money myth it would be that financial advisors aren't just for rich people. We need very simple sentiments shared in a public platform and more of them.

Speaker 3 36:28

Yeah I agree and and I hate that people think that financial advisors are only for wealthy people. That's one thing you know we talk about with our financial advising partners because you know we partner with a financial advisor on every 401 we have and so every you know whenever I'm talking to new financial advisors why should you be selling 401 plans why should you be helping with this I'm like it is so important because you are probably the only financial advisor some of these plan participants will ever meet ever will ever have. So what you do can change their lives.

Speaker 1 37:01

Absolutely I meet people still this weekend when people find out I don't know if this happens to Madison but when people find out you work in retirement they immediately want to ask you questions that we aren't qualified to answer. But we always direct them back to their retirement plan at work. We say hey do you have a plan at work? Do you participate and they say yes I say well there should be somebody you could call and talk to at least once a year about your retirement plan. Just go to HR and ask them for the phone number. So that is like could be the key to unlock potential for a lot of people just knowing that they have access to more resources than they even know right in their workplace.

Speaker 3 37:39

Yeah I was at a benefits fair yesterday for one of my clients and so I just had a table and all of their employees would come through and could ask questions and they weren't asking me technical questions and they certainly weren't asking me questions about secure right they were asking

What Success Looks Like Year One

Speaker 3 37:54

me about what they should invest in and you know things about their loans things that I like what you should invest in. I'm not your financial advisor like I can't even talk to you about that. But that's where their questions are or one person said I haven't signed up because I got overwhelmed when I looked at all the choices and I was just like all you have to do is just you know put your money in the default fund and talk to your financial advisor.

Speaker 1 38:19

Yeah and just ask questions. I think it's important to keep asking we had one retiree on our session yesterday and she said that was her advice is just to keep asking keep asking questions until you understand just keep asking don't be afraid to do it. It's information that you know these service providers are here to service the saver. So they shouldn't be afraid to tap into them.

Speaker 38:45

I think also you know a lot of the conversations that you know we hear from from savers and you know when financial advisors or anybody is talking to them about retirement sometimes it can feel like abstract and it can feel like it's all about the money and like the investments in the stock market. But what we really I think want to share with this campaign is the success stories and the retirement goals. Like what does retirement look like for you and how can you achieve that you know and we we spoke with my mother yesterday who just retired this year after you know a long career of working you know a number of odd jobs and you know her her goal was really for retirement to look like a new life you know it's not an end it's a beginning you know she's about to go on like a month long trip in Europe and and so you know I think this is something you know thinking about what you really want out of retirement the positives of retirement I think that's important to share in this campaign.

Speaker 3 39:52

Absolutely um where do women of color face even bigger challenges?

Speaker 1 39:59

I would say there are a number of disparities including access to healthcare you know if you talk to anyone I think in retirement healthcare is the number one you know challenge but access to healthcare can be you know a substantial cost if you have to pay out of pocket for services. I think a lot of families in communities of color are trying to manage daily expenses and really you can't step back far enough from the everyday to think about the future. And then there's also disparities and discrimination still in pay and advancement. Black women especially are the number one highly educated group in the United States but still don't make the same dollar that a white woman does so for the same job. So you know that's where advocacy comes in again and sharing information and knowing what the benchmark is for the work that you're doing and being able to advocate to have pay equity that would be like one of the the number one challenges what can a plan sponsor do on women's retirement security day oh they can encourage women to do like five things log into their account locate their account password um reset it if they need to log in check to make sure that they are contributing check their beneficiaries also they can share information about Wiser the Women's Institute for a Secure Economic Retirement Cindy Hounsel is the CEO and president of Wiser and I think she's been running that board for over 20 years. There are a significant number of resources that she has for women at every stage of life whether it's divorce having a baby stepping away for caregiving widowhood she has step-by-step guidance for what a woman needs to consider or what action she needs to take in those instances so they can introduce them to organizations like Wiser. But definitely know your login to your benefits account reset your password if you need to check your to make sure your beneficiaries are updated are the the basics and then go check out Wiser.

Speaker 3 42:26

Okay. What can a financial advisor do beyond just posting on social media?

Speaker 1 42:35

I think that's a good question. I think a financial advisor can take a moment to become acquainted if they aren't already with the unique challenges that women face. So they service lots of clients but to brush up on their skills and make sure that they are

RaiseHER Financial Literacy Tools

Speaker 1 42:49

prepared to meet women where they are and to speak to the unique situations that they face and the intersectionalities that they need to consider when they're advising women in particular who would make a good raise her presenter school teachers school teachers community leaders think about Girl Scout troop leaders I think there is no age limit you know financial education can be appropriate and adjusted for just about any age so think about community leaders who have engagement with with their members of their community and organizations it'll be perfect. What's the first step someone should take to to join raise her or to get the tools or to teach a raise her class oh go to our website usaretirement dotorg and look for raise her R A I dollar sign e H E R raise Her and it will take you directly to the resources you can also go to the Women's Retirement Security Day website and under Resources and tools there's a link to the RaiseHER program. How is ARA tracking progress towards one million women count by count when everyone participates when anyone participates we get numbers back and a report back. There are actually certificates that are given certificates of completion at the end of the program and those certificates allow us to track those who have successfully completed it.

Speaker 3 44:32

What role do you think men should play in this movement?

Speaker 1 44:37

Men are still a majority of the professionals in the financial services industry so it's absolutely necessary for them to participate in this this campaign as well to make sure that they're reaching out to their women clients on this day it's a nice Reminder Like we have reminders when we need to change the battery and our smoke detectors at home. Women's Retirement Security Day can be the reminder that they need to actually circle back to the women in their plan to make sure that they are on track towards their goals.

Speaker 3 45:10

Five years from now, what would make you all say we did it?

Speaker 1 45:17

Five years from now, what would make us say we did it? I'm on a beach halfway five years from retirement, and I see a commercial about women's retirement security day come up on my Instagram feed, and I didn't have to put it there.

Speaker 3 45:43

That's great. Okay, as we start wrapping things up, what is the one action you want listeners to take this week?

Speaker 45:54

I want listeners to have a conversation. You know, I think sometimes money can feel taboo. And but we all, you know, we have our friends, we have, you know, family members that we can talk to about this stuff. So, you know, reach out to your friends and say, hey, like what retirement plans do you all have? What age are you going to retire? What are your retirement goals? Just starting the conversation is enough.

Speaker 1 46:22

Absolutely. I I concur. It's summertime, it's cookout season. Have a conversation at the next cookout and make it fun. Talk about, you know, in retirement, what our cookouts look like. You know, there's so many things that people don't think about in retirement. Like, what type of lifestyle do you want to live? Do you want to go on vacation? Do you want to, you know, rent? Do you want to own? Are we going to be a girl gang and buy a house together? I don't know. Like whatever that vision is, like start thinking about your vision and make a vision board. Make it plain and then take that first step towards your goals.

Speaker 3 47:00

What message do you have for women who feel behind?

Speaker 1 47:05

Oh, there is no such thing as behind. Start where you are. You will never regret the step that you take today. I'm not a person who started out saving in my 20s. Like I said, I started here at the American Retirement Association in my 40s. So it was then that I got serious about saving for retirement,

Caregiving Gaps And Policy Persistence

Speaker 1 47:27

but I'm still, you know, chipping away at it, you know, one day at a time, one paycheck at a time, one year at a time. I challenged myself to increase my contributions by 1% each year at least. And I don't even miss it. Um, so start where you are, find out today if your employer offers a retirement plan. And if not, go to Wiser and find out what other options you may have to begin saving outside of your employer.

Speaker 47:59

It's never, it's never too late and it's never too early to start.

Speaker 3 48:04

Yeah. I I love that that there's no such thing as behind. There's a financial advisor who runs a commercial on TV here. And he said that, you know, he has customers come in and say, when's the best time to plant a tree? And he says 20 years ago. But if you didn't today, today. And it's you know the same thing for retirement. 20 years ago is the best time, but if you haven't, go ahead and do it now. What message do you have for planned sponsors and financial advisors?

Speaker 1 48:32

Join us in participating in Women's Retirement Security Day. Share it with a colleague, share it with a friend. Let us know if you'd like to partner with us. There's still opportunity to highlight your organization. We'd be happy to add you as a resource.

Speaker 3 48:49

Final thoughts. What gives you hope about women's retirement security?

Speaker 1 48:56

What gives me hope is being in a space where we can create opportunities like this. And then thinking about the person who needs the inspiration, and that the message that we're putting out may just be the thing, the catalyst that starts them on their journey towards retirement security. You know, there are people that we will never meet. This is a moment in her story, not history, but her story that we get to accomplish together.

Speaker 49:28

Yeah, I find it very optimistic how many people have already expressed interest in getting involved, you know, the creative ways that our planning committee and our members and our volunteers have wanted to, you know, get involved and help with us. You know, I think this is this is going to be a long time coming. We'll be we'll be doing this for forever.

Speaker 3 49:52

Forever. Yeah. Well, thank you both for being here today. I really appreciate you sharing with us. And I want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in. All of the resources will be in the show notes as well. And we will also have contact information for Erika and Madison if you want to get a hold of them. So thank you again, ladies.

Speaker 1 50:12

Thank you so much. Bye. Bye bye.