Raising a Generation of Women Ready for Retirement

Episode Intro: The GAP with Stephen M. Welch and Cindy Hounsell

Retirement doesn’t begin at retirement, and for many women, the biggest risks show up decades earlier in quiet ways. Money messages that discourage questions, lower pay over time, career pauses for caregiving, and missed access to a workplace 401(k) can all stack up into a retirement savings gap that feels impossible to catch. We created Women’s Retirement Security Day to name that reality and to focus on what actually helps.

Episode Description:

We’re joined by Cindy Hansel, founder of WISER (Women’s Institute for a Secure Retirement), and Steven Welch, managing partner of Crown Mark Wealth Advisors. Cindy shares how a pension freeze nobody could explain turned into a lifelong mission to make retirement rules and resources understandable. Steven tells the story of losing a large chunk of savings after concentrating his 401(k) in company stock and how that pain shaped his commitment to education, better plan design, and real guidance for everyday workers.

Together, we dig into the drivers that compound fastest, including longevity, caregiving, and gaps in participation, and we challenge the lazy advice to “just save more.” We talk about retirement planning in plain English, why retirement is a financial condition not an age, and the practical basics that prevent heartbreak, like keeping beneficiary forms updated and getting one-on-one support. We also highlight what plan sponsors and advisors can improve now, including automatic enrollment, auto-increase features, and communication that meets people where they are.

If you want a clearer path to women’s retirement security, listen, share this with someone you care about, and subscribe so you don’t miss what we publish next. After you listen, will you leave a review and tell us the biggest retirement question you want answered?

Guest Bio:  Stephen M. Welch
 
Stephen M. Welch is the Managing Partner of Crownmark Wealth Advisors, launched in 2025, and headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia. With a proven track record of excellence in retirement planning and corporate financial strategies, Stephen specializes in empowering individuals and businesses to achieve their financial goals through comprehensive, tailored solutions.

During his successful tenure at Morgan Stanley, Stephen served as a Retirement Plan Advisor and Corporate Retirement Director, guiding businesses in optimizing their retirement plans to attract and retain top talent while ensuring compliance and sustainability. His designation as a Financial Planning Specialist underscores his ability to approach each client’s financial journey holistically, incorporating investment strategies, retirement planning, and estate planning to deliver growth and stability across life stages.

Stephen’s approach is defined by his commitment to building strong, personalized relationships with clients. Leveraging cutting-edge technology and a deep understanding of the financial landscape, he transforms challenges into opportunities, ensuring that every financial decision aligns with his clients’ long-term objectives.

As a co-founder of Crownmark Wealth Advisors alongside Sean Foote, Stephen brings a shared vision of providing a boutique wealth management experience that prioritizes client success. Together, they offer a comprehensive range of services for high-net-worth individuals, business owners, and corporate executives.

Stephen’s dedication to his clients’ financial well-being ensures that they are not just planning for the future but thriving in it. Whether optimizing retirement strategies or navigating complex financial decisions, Stephen delivers the expertise and guidance clients need to secure their financial legacy.

Guest Bio: Cindy Hounsell

Cindy Hounsell is the Founder and President of the Washington D.C. based Women’s Institute for a Secure Retirement (WISER), a nonprofit organization founded in 1996 to improve opportunities for women to secure retirement income and to educate the public about the inequities that disadvantage women in retirement.

An attorney and retirement expert, Ms. Hounsell has been widely quoted in various media and publications including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes/PBS Next Avenue, Barrons, U.S. News and World Report, CNN, CNBC and NPR’s 1A, All Things Considered, Morning Edition and Marketplace.

Ms. Hounsell also serves as Director of the National Resource Center on Women and Retirement; the Center WISER operates in partnership with the U.S. Administration on Aging. Through the Center, Ms. Hounsell provides technical assistance to national organizations and trains leaders and grassroots advocates across the country.

 Ms. Hounsell has testified before Congress and has served as a delegate for a number of White House summits and conferences.  She has authored many chapters, columns, articles, op-eds, papers and booklets focused on women’s retirement issues.

In 2018, Ms. Hounsell was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the Plan Sponsor Council of America. Ms. Hounsell was also named a 2015 Influencer in Aging by PBS- Next Avenue. The Influencers in Aging list highlights 50 thought leaders, researchers, experts, executives and everyday people who are redefining what it means to grow older in America. Ms. Hounsell was named by Women’s eNews as one of 21 Leaders for the 21st Century, and Money magazine named her one of its 40 Money Heroes for helping women secure their financial futures.

Contact Our Guests:

Stephen M. Welch
Managing Partner
Crownmark Wealth Advisors
CrownmarkWealth.com

Cindy Hounsell, JD
Founder and President
WISER
WiserWomen.org

Contact Our Host:

Shannon Edwards
President
TrisStar Pension Consulting
TriStarPension.com
LinkedIn

Transcript

Why Women’s Retirement Security Day

SPEAKER_07 0:53

Welcome back to The Gap, the podcast where we tackle one of the biggest challenges in America today, closing the retirement savings and coverage gaps, while also shining a light on what's actually working in our system. I'm Shannon Edwards, your host and president of TriStar Pension Consulting. I would like to welcome all listeners to our podcast with a special welcome to those listening for the first time. This is a special edition of the gap. Today we are recognizing Women's Retirement Security Day, and I cannot think of a more important topic for this show. As many of our listeners know, the focus of the gap is right there in the name. We talk about the savings gap, we talk about the coverage gap, we talk about the work still ahead of us in the American retirement system, but we also talk about what is working because the private retirement system in this country has helped millions of workers save, invest, and build a more secure future. And today's conversation sits right at the intersection of those two ideas, acknowledging the progress we have made while being honest about the gaps that remain. Women's retirement security does not start at retirement. It starts much earlier. It starts with the money messages girls hear growing up. It starts with access to workplace savings. It is affected by pay, caregiving, time away from work, divorce, widowhood, confidence, and whether women have access to trusted advice at the moments when they need it most. That is why Women's Retirement Security Day matters. It gives us a chance to pause, focus, and ask, what are we doing to help women not just retire, but retire with confidence, dignity, and security? I am so pleased to have two wonderful guests with me for this conversation. Cindy Hansel is the founder and president of Wiser, the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement. Cindy is an attorney and nationally recognized retirement expert who has spent decades working to improve women's retirement outcomes. Through Wiser, she has helped educate women, advocates, policymakers, and the public about the challenges women face in securing retirement income. She also serves as director of the National Resource Center on Women and Retirement, has testified before Congress, and has been widely recognized for her leadership in this space. And joining Cindy is Stephen Welch, managing partner of Crown Mark Wealth Advisors in Atlanta. Steven has extensive experience in retirement planning, workplace retirement plans, and corporate financial strategies. Before launching Crown Mark Wealth Advisors, he served at Morgan Stanley as a retirement plan advisor and corporate retirement director. Steven works closely with clients on comprehensive financial planning, and he brings a particularly valuable perspective to today's conversation through his work with female clients, his support for women entering, his support for women entering the advisory profession, and his commitment to developing the next generation of retirement leaders. This is going to be a conversation about awareness, but also action. We will talk about why the gaps exist, how they show up in real women's lives, and what plan sponsors, advisors, employers, families, and the broader retirement industry can do to help close them. Cindy and Steven, thank you both so much for being here and welcome to the gap.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Awesome. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_07 4:15

Thanks, Shannon. Cindy, why did women's retirement security become your life's work?

SPEAKER_05 4:23

Well, I had worked for a company for 10 years and they decided to freeze the pension. And no one could tell me what that meant. It was 30 years ago I started Wiser. And I people would say to me, Oh, the company just doesn't want you to know why they're doing it. And I said, No, nobody, nobody knows. Nobody can answer the question. This is the first one that ever got frozen. And so I want to know, do I put it in the freezer and wait, you know, till I'm like 80 or something, and then start taking it out of the

A Pension Freeze Sparks A Mission

SPEAKER_05 4:53

freezer? But there was no such opportunity. So anyway, I made it my commitment because I came to Washington, went to law school, and actually ended up like working on retirement. So that was what pulled it all together for me.

SPEAKER_07 5:11

So awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Steven, what drew you to retirement planning and workplace plans?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Wow. So first of all, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to do this because it's it is absolutely important work. My journey into financial advisory actually started in a retirement plan. I worked for a telecommunications company in the early 90s. And not knowing and not having enough education about investing, I did what most people did. I just kind of guessed it and winged it. Unfortunately for me, I ended up putting 10% of my income into the corporate retirement plan, the 401k, 90 plus percent of that being directed towards the company stock. And in the early 20s, in the early 2000s, when that company then filed for bankruptcy, lost about $270,000. The impact to me was not only financial, but it was an awakening. It made me understand and realize that I knew nothing about investing at that point, you know, in those early days. I was in my mid-20s at that point and knew very little about investing, whether it was stocks or bonds or or anything. And so the realization was there was a whole world of investments that I knew nothing about. I couldn't even really put together how I had lost or what I had lost. There were no advisors to give me direction and guidance. And so, you know, watching an account go from $200 plus $1,000 to zero overnight left kind of a painful mark on me. And so when I got into the industry years later, it became my work not only to help participants and provide them the guidance that, you know, I never got, but to make sure that none of that, what happened to me, happens to anybody on our watch. So, you know, that's where my passion lies. And that's why I'm so heavily involved in securing retirement for the common person.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

That is an awesome why. I love that. I hate that you had to go through that, but that it led you here is really it's really awesome. Um, I want to ask both of you, what does retirement security mean to each of you? And Cindy, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Okay. Sorry, I'm reading my question here.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

What it means to me is I started a new life when I learned what it meant to lose your pension. I I was part of a little commission in Washington, and they had these were three things that were going to make you a failure in your retirement for women, and that was divorce, longevity, and not having a retirement plan at the workplace. And so I had just qualified for, you know, basically all those, all those lifetime changes. And I saw that there were so many women, the divorce rule is actually pretty easy if you if you know that there is such a rule, and somebody tells you, no, you you you can't have part of that pension or it doesn't belong to you, you can't do that in a divorce, which is not the rule. And so what I I saw that that was one of the easiest ways to get to women, and it tricked a lot of, you know, I don't know, excitement about the fact we we were teaching when we started, even women in in prison who were like had been in for a long time, and because of their age, a lot of them were being released. And when we told them about the divorce rule, it was for them like winning the lottery because they had kids waiting for them on the outside. And it it was just an interesting concept that that would be the first group of women that would jump on that rule. So anyway, and then you know, we we run the National Resource Center on Women in Retirement, and that's been a great opportunity for women. That's what we've spend most of our time doing, and I'll be helping Stephen getting some of his people to like pay attention to to some of those rules and look at the resources down in Atlanta, especially. We have partners down there also. So very exciting. Wonderful. And the resource center, what people like about it is a lot of women that have little income, say for

Losing It All In Company Stock

SPEAKER_05 9:53

retirement, people start telling them about budgeting. And if they're working a couple of jobs or hard jobs, they already know how to budget. I mean, they know that they they only have limited resources. And so the important thing for them is getting some kind of a foundation of what how the financial system works for them. And I over the weekend I was laughing because I had somebody come and was planting in my garden for me in the heat. And and he was telling me, he was saying, like, what do you do? And I told him, and and he said, Well, I know he said, This friend of mine, she just turned 85, and she just found out that she has a penalty for her social security, her Medicare premiums because she didn't sign up at 65. She never got a letter. And I said, Well, she doesn't get a letter. You have to, you have to be looking for it at 65 and go sign up yourself. And so he here's somebody who spent her life doing financial education and was an attorney and a tax lawyer, and she had a lot of qualifications, but nobody ever told her. So she's being penalized. So some of the some of the things that we share with people seem so simplistic. It's just, I didn't know. But if you know, then you can make a lot of good changes, and people get excited about that. So, which is why we even do that with the younger people, you know, who believe it or not, can get excited about retirement. And it's wonderful to see.

SPEAKER_07 11:21

So anyway. Yeah, definitely. Steven, what does retirement security mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, I mean, it for to me, it's it's allowing you to continue in a lifestyle that you've grown accustomed to. I mean, you know, people work the their entire lives to quote unquote retire and and be able to kind of live life the way they want to on their terms versus working for someone that says, hey, you have to be at the office at nine o'clock. You can leave, you can leave at five. And so retirement security to me means helping people to craft a life after work that they will truly enjoy for the things that they then determine when they get up, when they, when they're able to relax and when they can take vacation. So, you know, for me, it's it's helping others to shape the future for themselves and the in a lifestyle that they desire.

SPEAKER_07 12:21

Why do you think that this issue in particular deserves its own annual day of recognition?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

You know, to me, it it's it's everyone's journey, right? I mean, we will all work, right? And we will all retire, right? And and so, and and then certainly at some point we will all die, right? We will all pass away. And so the the more control you can have over that journey from beginning to end really deserves its attention because we're all going to get there. The differentiator is how will we get there? And so I think the answer to the how will we get there really depends on the amount of guidance you get, the advice and direction that you receive while you're in the midst of that journey. And you can really see a differentiator between those. I look at myself as a prime example. I didn't have the guidance. And so I made a catastrophic, what could have been a catastrophic mistake. You know, I had invested everything I had into a corporate retirement plan in the company stock, right? And had I had I been older, had this happened to me in my 50s or 60s, it would have been devastating. Fortunately for me, it happened young enough that I could recover. And, you know, thankfully, it gave me this beautiful career and a passion that I can pursue, you know, to help resolve this for others. But you know, it deserves its time because it is so important and it impacts every single person that you know has a career that aspires to continue a lifestyle into their later years or what I call their twilight years beyond employment. So yes, it does deserve the attention. It it impacts every single individual on this planet.

SPEAKER_07 14:14

Stephen, what does what did does your retirement plan work teach you about the power of the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, it is, you know, the the workplace is the most impactful thing that people do. I mean, sometimes the work that we do defines us, defines who we are. It defines who our our generation will be and our children and our families. And so the workplace has a massive influence. I mean, if you are if you are a minimum wage worker and you do not have access to retirement to prepare for those twilight years, the reality is that you will work forever. I think one of the things that I try to impress upon participants and plant sponsors is that retirement is not an age. We have been conditioned to believe that retirement is an age. It's 65 and it's not. And what I try to do is help people understand that retirement is a state of financial condition, not an age. And the example that I always use with folks is if you are 65 and you have $50,000 in your retirement savings and you have an annual expense of $50,000, you can't retire. However, if you're in your 40s and someone hands you a check for $5 million, guess what? You can retire. And so it is it is less about age and more about financial condition. And that financial condition is really determined by how you prepare for that eventual event of retirement.

SPEAKER_07 16:00

Yeah. Um, I want to ask both of you, and Cindy, I'll start with you. Who or what shaped the way each of you talks about money? Was it a mentor, a client, a family experience? What shaped the way you talk about money?

SPEAKER_05 16:17

Oh, I think I I my dad was in the military and we moved all over the place, and

What Retirement Security Really Means

SPEAKER_05 16:23

I sort of learned how nobody knew those things, actually. People complained about money all the time because there wasn't enough of it, but they didn't know, you know, the answers or how to change the situation. It's not like you can go just apply for, you know, an increase in your salary just because you happen to be in the military. So I think that that made a big impact on me. And my my dad, I was an only child, and I had a mother who was like, she had like chronic conditions, and so she didn't really pay any attention to that. So I was sort of my dad's sounding board, you know, of like what what we were doing and why we were doing it. So he I guess he was my mentor, but you know, it was just it was something that he cared about and tried to help other people with. People came to him for advice, even though he, you know, he didn't have a lot of schooling about that. It was a long time ago. So yeah. Anyway, but the world was different. You know, this is like it's like so different from anything that I experienced even when I started Wiser. So I think it's great that people pay attention more and try to get you know, retirement account in their workplace benefits and realize how important that is and to pay attention and you know what's happening to that money. I mean, Stephen and I in in many ways had a similar experience. You know, I lost my long-term pension, you know, but he he lost, you know, he could see the value of the cash. Like none none of us could see how bad losing that freeze frozen pension was gonna be until we got to the age of say 60 to see, like, really, that's you know, that's 10 years. Whoof. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:14

Steven, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, listen, I I grew up in a in a very simple family, and and like many of us, I didn't have my parents couldn't teach me what they didn't know, right? Um they didn't have a a background in investment or finance. And so I would say that the what shaped my view of money was was really the lack, right? I didn't grow up with wealth. And so that workplace experience at age 23, which is when I started that company, you're not thinking about retirement. You know, I'm like, how can I pay my rent and my car and and get to work? And so, you know, it it was lost on me the value of the retirement plan. And it wasn't until that event happened, losing everything really at the time, really shaped and molded me. It it forced me to learn about an industry and and a very valuable part of everyone's life, which is savings and investment. It it propelled me into a situation where I literally went to the library and pulled investment for dummies off the bookshelf and read it cover to cover. And because I had never been exposed to it to that degree, I had to read it twice, maybe even three times before it started to really set in what had happened to me and what I needed to do for my future to make sure that I could have a successful retirement outcome and to build wealth and be able to create the security and safety, not only for myself personally in those younger days, but later on in life, as now I'm I'm a responsible, I'm a husband, I'm a father, you know, to be able to really guide and navigate this world of finance and investment more securely for not only myself, but also for my family. So, you know, I if you're asking me where was there a mentor, I think there were several. Were there was there something or someone that gave me a life lesson? I think it was that catastrophic event, if you will. And and you know, I think it life is oftentimes not what happens to you, but how you react to it. And fortunately for me, I was able to react to it in a way that gave me this wonderful career and the ability to impact others with my experience to help them avoid some of the pitfalls and challenges that I've faced.

SPEAKER_07 20:51

Thank you for sharing that. Um, Cindy, was there a moment when it just came to you and you thought this needs a national conversation? We have got to be talking about this on uh on a wider plane.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Well, I think there have I was in Washington for enough of those conversations, those commissions on Social Security and Medicare and and all of that. So I guess I just didn't have that thought in my head. I just knew that women were behind and that nobody was telling them the things that they needed to know. And so when we started Wiser, one of the exciting things was because it was a different world, the foundation that that gave us uh startup money had an opportunity to get our booklet, our 10-page booklet with sort of all those little gotchas of what you need to know. And and and they put the the the booklet in Good Housekeeping magazine. And that at that time, that was, you know, that was the time when people just waited for those magazines. You know, people still wait for people, but I think, but you know, it's it's different for the the it was what every woman needs to know. And even when I was sitting in my office and I was new to all of it, we had just set up the office and they were sending in little pieces from the the you know, that I would like to have a copy of this and sent money. And so, like, you know, help use this to help other women. People, you know, would put in like a couple of extra dollars and everything. And so it was it was amazing, and it proved to me like how much people were looking for something that was going to help them understand and make changes. So that was my conversation anyway with people. So still having that conversation.

SPEAKER_07 22:50

Well, it's a it's a much needed conversation. Steven, is there a plan sponsor or participant story that has really stuck with you?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Oh God. I mean, we're we're talking about the 20 years, right? The last 20

Retirement Is A Financial Condition

SPEAKER_00 23:03

years of life.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

There are so many in terms of conversations. I've I've had participants that, you know, when it relate as it relates to beneficiaries, right? One of the most impactful things is early in my career, I received a call from a participant that, you know, her late fiance hadn't changed his beneficiary document. And, you know, just he had been previously married and just, you know, and divorced, but never changed the beneficiary document. And so when he unfortunately passed away in a workplace accident, you know, his fiance, they'd been together for for almost a decade, and they were supposed to get married. And I think in the coming year, she called and was looking to claim the benefits that he had had, assuming that she was the beneficiary, only to find out that no, he had never changed it. He had been divorced for a number of years and just never changed the document. And so for me, that that kind of stuck with me because it happened early in my career. And so as I meet with plant sponsors and participants, you know, I'm I'm very focused on making sure that they update their beneficiary documents and that they keep that information up to date. But I mean, just watching, you know, the number of participants that go through this this journey and look up at age 60 and say, hey, you know, I'm I'm going to retire in five years. And that's when they start to focus on, you know, what's in my account, what's my balance, and seeing that and the disappointment to them that, listen, you really don't have enough prepared to retire in five years. You haven't done the work. And so, you know, that drives my passion to make sure that we're educating people earlier, that, you know, financial resources and access to information is readily available to participants, whether they're 23 like I was starting out or they're in their 50s, looking at what I call the retirement red zone, where you've got to really put it all together is important to me. And so I think there are a lot of participants that have impacted my view and my perspective on the retirement journey. But for me, it's it's really taking all of these pain points and turning them into success stories where, you know, I've watched participants, you know, retire and say, hey, look, I'm retiring next year, and looking at their balance and seeing, hey, look, they've got enough, or putting a plan together for them from a wealth management perspective, because, you know, the journey up the hill is is pretty easy. It's the decumulation side that gets more challenging. And so you know, what I look to do is help drive people's results on the front end and then prepare them for the journey on the downside of the of their employment history. So, you know, I I think it's a lot of people that have influenced my perspective.

SPEAKER_07 26:23

Um, in your opinion, why can't we treat women's retirement security as a once-a-year message?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Because it's it's not a once-a-year thing. It's a per paycheck thing, right? I mean, it's so, you know, you can't look up and say, oh, well, once a year I'm gonna check on my health, or once a year I'm gonna check my blood pressure. It's it's not that type of conversation. It's something that needs to be worked at. And, you know, it's about consistency, just like anything else in life, whether it's your physical health or your emotional health or or your finances, it's something that you have to be responsible for on a frequent basis because it's not the thing that you do at one moment, it's the little things that you've done over decades that really start to add up and create the environment for that successful retirement outcome. So you can continue your life in your twilight years in the way that you would like to or that you've grown accustomed to. And so I think those are that's really the reason why this has to be a continuous discussion, not just a once-a-year event or a once-in-a-while topic, or let me check every couple of years. It really needs to be an ongoing dialogue.

SPEAKER_07 27:42

So we've, Cindy, we've talked about the fact that women's retirement security is affected by gaps in pay, time off for caregiving, longevity, and just workplace access to plans. What gap do you think compounds the fastest? What do you think that which of those and maybe there's not just one that makes the gap compound the fastest, but in your opinion, is there one that that makes it compound faster than another?

SPEAKER_05 28:12

Yeah, I mean, I think for women especially, the the issue is that they don't realize that they're gonna have to pay for those extra years. So I always say if you're at the the Thanksgiving table and you have, you know, Auntie so-and-so who's in their 90s, and then somebody else who's waiting for their hundredth birthday, you better recheck all your numbers and realize what's gonna happen. And the other, the other big, big issue these days, well, there are two big issues, I think, is the fraud issue. And that just is everyone. Doesn't matter how much money you have. I think people are just afraid of losing. There are too many bad stories going around that people worry about. And then caregiving for mainly women. I mean, women for just doing more of the things that with their mother that their brother is not going to be doing, so, or somebody else in the family. And so the caregiving is a huge issue. And, you know, there are scary studies around showing that like women end up homeless because they ended up doing too much unpaid caregiving and left their jobs and you know didn't didn't try to find other help where there might be other help and even from other family members. And so that's that's a big passion for a lot of people that I know is making sure that people understand the financial issues around caregiving.

SPEAKER_07 29:35

That means Steven, what do you think plan sponsors need to understand about women who are participating in the plan but still falling behind?

SPEAKER_06 29:48

Yeah, I mean, I oh I'm sorry, I thought you wanted me. So both of you can both of you can take. Cindy, you go Cindy, you go first. Ladies first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:58

I I well, I was just gonna say that the longevity issue means that you're probably gonna need more money to to keep living the life that you're living today. And and so that people don't think about that so much. And the the actuaries don't like when you say that women need more money because they they think you know you're gonna scare people away from saving at all if you if you tell them that they're gonna need more money. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

No, no, I I I agree with you, Cindy. And and Shannon, I I think it's it's all the parts that compound, right? And I think plant sponsors need to understand a woman's journey through you know employment into retirement is very different than most men, right? I mean, you know, I'll continue to work while you know, I continued to work while my wife was pregnant with our kids.

Money Messages And Early Education

SPEAKER_00 30:53

I was I continued to work while she was caregiving, you know, for our her parents, right? I, you know, it never stopped me. When you look at the numbers statistically, you know, who was most impacted during COVID? Most women stepped away from work while their husbands continue to work. Well, what does that mean? Well, that means that there are more gaps in their participation in retirement plans, to Cindy's point, longevity, right? So women will outlive most men statistically, requiring greater resources in retirement. So I don't think it's any one thing, I think it's many things. And I think plan sponsors as a whole need to be more clear and aware that there needs to be more focus on helping women gain access to investment resources and guidance. It's not something that's often spoken about. Fathers, you know, myself included, I'm a girl dad, right? So, you know, I've seen and watched fathers spend time teaching their sons how to throw a ball, teaching their sons how to balance a checkbook, but is that same focus and attention being paid to their daughters?

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And so I think there needs to be greater awareness for for young ladies about you know financial investments and and financial tools. It's not just about, oh, let me teach my daughter how to cook and clean. It it is, you know, how do you run a household? Right. And I think it was such a, you know, I think in many places it is so dated to have that mindset of, oh, okay, you know, my my my daughter's gonna grow up. I need to teach her how to care for a home. No, you need to teach her how to care for a home, but you also need to teach her how to balance a checkbook, how to make proper investment decisions, how to, you know, acquire real estate, how to build assets, how to build and create wealth, how to manage wealth. And so I for me as a you know, as a father, I have just as much focus on teaching my daughter how to throw a football as I do teaching her how to, you know, how to balance and make proper investment decisions and educating in them and guiding them about what their future really entails.

SPEAKER_07 33:26

What do you think the industry gets wrong when they just when they say just just save more? That's the answer, just save more.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

It's not a saving problem as much as it is, you know, a guidance problem. I I think, you know, as a whole, people are afraid of finance and investment. It's it's a scary place. And and so I think we need to demystify some of this. I how we say it's not rocket science, it's how it's delivered. And so changing the language around how we talk about finance and investment matters. How we deliver that message to participants, male and female. I mean, there are a lot of men that are afraid of investing, they they don't understand it. And so I think there's a human nature response to back away from things that are scary or that we don't understand. We hear the horror stories, and so people run from that. And so I think we need to bring a clarity and understanding and a common, you know, theme to the discussion and demystify it in so many ways. And so, you know, I I think that would be really, really helpful. Let's not talk about the alpha and the quant, you know, factors of this. Let's make it plain and simple. Hey, listen, this is how much you will need in retirement. Here's a pathway and here's a game plan for that, and and make it very simple for people.

SPEAKER_07 34:57

I agree. And, you know, it's so funny because I think when I was young, we were taught that talking about money was rude. And you didn't do that. You didn't ask people how much they made, you didn't ask people uh those questions at all. So I think getting rid of those stigmas is really important so that we can start having those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

No, absolutely. It it was, you know, in our day, it was, you know, hey, go sit over there. This is grown folks' business, right? When dad was doing taxes or mom was, you know, trying to balance the budget, right? You know, and yeah, it was, you know, go sit off off there or go play outside. This is grown folks' business. And the reality is those children grow into grown grown folks, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

They're not learning at the level, if they're not sitting at the table while we're doing our taxes, right? If they're not sitting at the table when there's a real estate transaction or where when we're trying to figure out, you know, healthcare benefits or budgets, right? Then they never get that education early on. And so one of the things that I try to do with my girls is I involve them, I engage them in those conversations. I want them to see, hey, look, you know, we're we're closing on this house. Here's how we got this, or here's how we have to budget, you know, now in preparation for the things that we want. And so I think the more we can include our children in those conversations early on, then as they age and get into the workforce, they'll understand these concepts. I think the the education needs to begin sooner than later.

SPEAKER_07 36:36

Agreed. Cindy, what progress so far makes you most proud?

SPEAKER_05 36:44

I I think the fact that people don't say, why women? You know, like the word is out there, why women? Like why wives or would matter, you know, to women more than men or whatever. So we used to get that in the beginning. So people would say, Well, why, you know, what about everybody else? I guess we'll look at those arms around the table, you know. That's that's why women, that's part of it. But I think that's a big piece of it. And also the longevity issue has really impacted people. I think there's there's a lot, a lot of discussion about how, you know, there are these studies and they show how long women live and and compared to men, and and and but nobody pays attention to those numbers. And that's the purpose of those studies is to look and see what factors you might have in your family that make it important for you to concentrate on the issues of longevity. So I I think there's there's just a lot of that discussion around, which there never would have been, you know, 10, 10, even 10 years ago. And so I think that's very exciting. And the fact that women, you know, women are doing the caregiving and seeing how it impacts their own life. And I think there's a lot of help coming down the road because there's so many new proposals out there that employers are paying attention to on like flexible hours and what what are some of the things that can be done that would make it easier for people to stay in a job and not just throw their hands up and just say, I can't keep doing all of this. So I think that's that's a good thing for employers too. I mean, they want to make make it better, I think. So anyway.

SPEAKER_07 38:36

Um what do you all think we're getting right in the private retirement system?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

I I think the you know the the parts of really emphasizing how important it is to start early, you know, things like automatic enrollment, I think have made a dramatic impact on the retirement savings, you know, rates and and the success of more and more participants getting engaged in a plan sooner than later. But you know, I think you know, legislation and and and

Longevity Caregiving And Other Accelerators

SPEAKER_00 39:13

features like auto increase, you know, have helped the retirement story. So I think they're getting it right. I think doing things like you know allowing practitioners that are actually doing the work to have an impact on on creating legislation around retirement matters because laws get written oftentimes by folks that don't experience it. They're not doing the work. And so our ability to impact an industry as plan advisors is important. I and I think having more folks involved and more impact on the way retirement plans work and and how the legislation is written and the rules around it matters. So I I think the industry as a whole is is getting better. A lot of work still to be done, certainly, but I think we are moving in the right direction in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_07 40:15

Cindy, do you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_05 40:17

I I was well, I was thinking that people need to know that there's like there are bills in Congress, and when they start passing bills getting close to the end of the year, there we stand a good chance to see some really helpful things in caregiving, like out-of-pocket expenses, things like that, that people don't even realize that you know, that they're spending that much money going to the drugstore, getting medications, or doing things that they're just doing it on the fly and not thinking, well, where is this money coming from out of my my pocket? But there's good legislation around. And and so I think I think that's you know, that's helpful.

SPEAKER_07 40:58

So what gives you all hope for the next generation of women savers?

SPEAKER_05 41:06

Well, I mean, the one thing that always makes me sort of sad, that's why I like our program with the college students, is that that they begin to think like, well, I'm not even gonna get any money from Social Security, or it's just I'm just throwing my money away, or whatever. But once they start to know the issues, they get excited about ways that they can tell their fellow, you know, generation, you know, about like where the money goes and what we can do, and how do we make sure that we're all gonna be able to collect that money or our grandparents are gonna collect it or whatever. So I think I think that's a good thing. So and to see young people get excited about retirement is wonderful.

SPEAKER_07 41:50

So Steven, did you want to add anything?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah, I think you know what gives me hope is as Cindy said, you know, younger folks are getting involved, they're thinking more about retirement at an earlier age, especially women, right? And the journey is very different, as I mentioned before. And so I think there's a increased awareness of retirement and the financial responsibilities that each young person has, not only for themselves, but their families. I think there's an increased awareness that Social Security is not going to be enough. It was never designed to be the only resource of retirement income for people. And I think that it's uh very much like the concept of retirement at 65. I think we've been falsely given the hope that Social Security is how I'm going to retire. I'm going to press the button and get a check every month that covers all my needs and wants. Um, and and that's a false narrative. And so I think there's an increased awareness. So that gives me hope, as well as the fact that you know, I'm seeing young women now getting more engaged in in industry, in the industry at large. That that's inspiring to me to see the change and the shift happen, to be able to walk into rooms and see a more balanced demographic than I've seen in my earlier years when you know when I started in the industry, it would be a room full of men. And now I'm we're seeing that shift. And so that really is inspiring and helps me feel like, yeah, we're making progress. Again, more work to be done, but but certainly moving in a in a more positive direction.

SPEAKER_07 43:45

Yeah, I know when I started in the industry and I would go to conferences, I was like one of five women probably that were there. And now as I look out at like the ASPA conferences, the TPA conferences, that side of the industry, you have seen a huge shift where I think really we're at the women are at least half of the population and and maybe more than that now on our side of the industry. And I know when I know that the financial advisor side has a little bit has a little bit to go to get to that, those kind of numbers, but I have seen a huge increase in the number of women on on that side as well at the conferences that I have the pleasure of attending.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

So Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 44:30

Um so, Stephen, we've talked about the fact that you have a lot of female clients. Um, and so what I want to know is what questions do women ask that men normally don't, and what concerns do you hear from them that the industry really underestimates?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yeah, no, great question. So I my engagement with my female clients. And and prospects is very different. You know, men are very bottom line. What's your performance going to be? And if I give you X, what am I going to get out of it? And I think that's that's fairly common without broad brushing it. But yes, my female clients ask me things about care. You know, how many times am I going to be able to meet with you? How how often will will we be discussing my future? You know, what are the how are you going to help guide me? How are you going to help educate me? Are the questions that I rarely get from from my male clients, especially initially. And so I think those are things and considerations that as a as advisors, we need to be aware of. How am I going to care for this young lady as she makes her journey through employment into retirement and to build and create a legacy for herself and her family? How is it different? And we as advisors, especially male advisors, need to be more in tune and aware of the differences and be prepared to address those questions, concerns, because the questions that women ask about investment and guidance and retirement and longevity and legacy are very different because their journey is very different.

SPEAKER_07 46:48

Very nice. Cindy, what's the difference between education and empowerment? And what kind of messages do you think actually build confidence?

SPEAKER_05 47:01

I mean, I think of what I hear from back from people, which I think is interesting. I was thinking about that with your questions yesterday. And I I find it fascinating that when people hear something that strikes them, and for everybody it's different. I mean, their own life experience, then they say, you know what really impressed me? I I know everybody says you're supposed to start early and I didn't start early, but I saw that chart you brought where if you started saving in your 20s instead of in your 40s, that you would have this much more money in your when you went to retire. And so I'd like to know more

Beyond “Just Save More”

SPEAKER_05 47:43

about that. I want I want a copy of that chart. Like I want to give it to all my women friends. It's it's so interesting. It's like it clicks. And I've seen that even with like the young people, like once they they understand really what compound interest means. I mean, otherwise people don't go around just talking about it, you know. So, but when they see how individually it can make such a big difference in their lives, covers what, you know, your your how long you're gonna work, you know, like your health care like needs, etc. That's one of the things people don't like to factor in either, that how much the premiums are gonna be and on your you know, health insurance as you get older, especially. And so I think when people when when it's like you push the right button with people, then they get really excited about it. And you know, it's maybe it's what they need sometimes. During the pandemic, we we do a lot of educating for the network of aging professionals, and so it's a it's a government program, pretty much. It's a you know, most of the people work for different agencies in the government are used to. And and so what was fascinating with the with the pandemic was that people people really made that made a difference. Like people even downsized, you know, like I finally did with the calculations that you were telling us we need to do with those tools you tell us are available. And and so I I think you know, it's exciting when you see that happen when people are so happy, but I never really understood it enough to be doing it. And so when a lot of my friends were like losing their jobs and you know, things were happening, I felt really like competent and confident that I was gonna have enough money because I'd already taken care of that before the you know the bad part, before we all started losing our jobs or you know, because of the uh the pandemic. So I think you know that's exciting for people to be able to not worry.

SPEAKER_07 49:55

Yeah, agreed. How early do you think that money conversations should start? And what how does the message change as people get older? So how does the message change from like your teens to your 20s to your 50s? Steven?

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah, no, great question. Um, so uh how early should the money conversation start when speech and language matter? I I I mean I that's my way of saying, you know, as as soon as possible. I mean, I have a little thing I do with my daughter, who's 10, my my youngest, and I let her when we go out to dinner, you know, I'll we'll get the bill and I let her do the math on the tip, right? And and it's it's my way of kind of teaching her, hey, this is how much this costs, right? It's reinforcing her understanding of math and how to calculate, but it also is giving her the power of saying, hey, look, I'm responsible for this part. She knows that when the bill comes, she's I'm gonna hand it to her and I actually let her sign for me, you know, on the on the payment, right? And so instilling in her an understanding of finance early, early. And we talk about assets and liabilities. And, you know, when it's a conversation about, oh, I want this toy versus that one, well, which one is most valuable and what's the value of things? So I think those conversations need to start very, very early. You know, I didn't have that growing up, and so part of my passion is to give that to my children. The accumulation side is is the easier part of the equation, right? It's you know, put money in and the balance grows. And you know, I think there's unfortunately a perspective of set it and forget it. That's what I did when in my 401k, right? I set it up and then I never looked at it. I never I didn't open, I did all the things that I tell people not to do. I didn't look at any of my statements, I didn't follow the market, I didn't make any changes to my allocation when the markets went up or down. I just didn't know what I didn't know. And so I think that conversation needs to be ongoing and consistent. And then the the challenge is the decumulation side, right? The accumulation side is the easy part. Put the money in, set, set it and move. The decumulation side is is the part that you know I think is most challenging and requires even more education than before. And so I think the the conversation has to be ongoing and continuous because the the challenges change and it's an individual challenge. In our household, we we became caregivers for aging parents. Wasn't in the plan. It just wasn't part of our equation. We'd never thought about it until suddenly one day, right? And and that impacted everything. It changed the way we looked at our future, our retirement. And I think this generation is is uniquely challenged by what I call the sandwich generation. We're taking care of aging parents, we're raising young kids, and somewhere there in the middle, we've got to figure out our own retirement journey and the financial impacts. Our parents are living longer, so we're having to take care of them for longer because they didn't figure it out, right? And so I think this generation is uniquely challenged. And so what I endeavor to do is to prepare my kids for when I'm older, right? And then hopefully I don't have to, they don't have to step in and be a resource to me in my twilight years. And so I'm preparing better, and I'm hopefully preparing them better for their journey as well. I'm here. I think we lost you. I can hear you.

SPEAKER_05 54:13

Oh, okay. Erica, you there's a something, so there we go. There we go. I was just gonna add that we put out these fact sheets and things about you know, when you're 50, when you're 60, when you're 70, or what are the things that you should know about? Partly because I had a an economics professor at a at a big college, I won't name the college, that never signed up for her retirement. Like when she and so she ends up, you know, like getting close to thinking, like, I need to look into this. And they said, Well, you're not in the retirement plan. And she said, How how could that be? And nobody, you know, nobody had told her when she signed her papers when she was, you know, getting the job 40 years earlier or something. But it it's those are the things that really like sort of spark an interest in making sure that you know everything you're getting, you know, with those employee benefits and and that you're signed up, like you you had mentioned earlier, Stephen, you know, sign it up in the right places because it can change your whole life. You know, for her, there was no recourse, basically. The school wasn't going to give her the money that she, you know, that she didn't save for all those years. So I I like the idea of basing it on age that at least by the time you're 50, you should know these things and you know, check up on them. Means like going to the office, knocking on the door, and finding somebody, you know, or getting online and keep finding somebody to make sure that you're in the right, right zone of wherever you need to be. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

No, I I I think you're spot on, Cindy. I mean, it and the the conversation is different, right? I mean, the the conversation that I would have with my 20-year-old self would be different than the conversation I had it with my 30 or 40-year-old self because your priorities shift. And I and it when uh when we look at that, look at it from that prism or that perspective, you know, I look at 23, like I said, my my

What Women Ask Advisors First

SPEAKER_00 56:23

focus was okay, do I have enough money to pay my rent and and and pay my car payment and and maybe get out and have some fun, right? That's a completely those thoughts are they don't even register for someone in their mid-30s, right? They're they're not concerned about you know going out and having fun or how much is my bar tab gonna be. They're more focused on how do I, you know, am I married, am I single, am I, you know, raising children? Well, how am I what is tuition? What is you know my my kids' tuition look like? And then as you get into your 40s, well, it's you know, how do I acquire a home? How do I, you know, prepare for, you know, what's the daycare bill like? Um, you know, and so the the conversation around retirement and financial awareness and and financial skills really has to evolve depending on the demographic that you're you're speaking to. And I think that's one of the things that we as financial advisors can really hone in on and bring to the table because the conversation is different. And I think that's why it's important to have, you know, to cover that generational gap. When I was 20, I'm not gonna listen to a 60-year-old tell me that I need to prepare for retirement. It just wasn't. And now that I'm you know creeping towards those higher numbers, I used to be the young gun and now I'm I'm the old guy in the room. You know, I have to be very aware that I'm speaking to a 20-something that isn't so much focused on you know what life looks like in their 60s and 70s, they're more concerned with how do I, you know, accumulate enough money to purchase a home? Right. And I think we've got to really shape the conversation a little differently based on who we're speaking to.

SPEAKER_07 58:27

Yeah, I agree. Um where do you all think women are still underserved by the retirement industry?

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Where do we begin? Um, I I I think it's it's having the unique understanding that you know a woman's journey is very different financially. There are so many more considerations for women's journey into you know retirement or wealth, whether it's you know, when am I having children, how many children am I having. You know, I recently had a conversation with a client about a prenup, you know, and and she's you know looking at getting married and and we're having those conversations, um, being able to provide that type of guidance. And so I think in in the workplace, I think plant sponsors and advisors need to just be aware and more aware that there are differences in that journey and be able to help you know young women and and the likes react and be able to respond and and and be able to address the concerns that are very, very different, you know, about health care and and elder care. You know, statistically, most it's mostly women that become caregivers. And so how does that impact, you know, how does that impact your journey? And I don't know that we've really fully educated, you know, advisors, plan sponsors, and women alike on what that looks like, these considerations, these things that are around the corner that we don't see right now. And so I I try to encourage you know my clients and and plan sponsors to to consider those things. You know, what what does, you know, your parents are in their 70s. What does what did their 80s look like? Are you prepared to take on the responsibility of your parents? And and really kind of illuminating that for folks really does make them take a step back and go, oh, I didn't think about that. I didn't think about caring for mom and dad in in their 70s and 80s, or how prepared, you know, one question I ask, how prepared are are your parents for retirement? And when I ask that question, it immediately I see the lights come on, like, oh God. I haven't thought about that. They hadn't they hadn't factored that into the equation of their retirement or how it's going to impact them. And so I think we just need to ask those questions.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:09

Cindy, did you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:11

Yeah, I was gonna say that I think the biggest thing for women with the their employers and retirement plans is having access and knowing, you know, that they're in the plan and all of that. But a lot of times people don't even know that they're eligible, or somebody just tells them on the fly, well, you you haven't worked here long enough, or you know, that type of thing. I I find something that excites me is that when I work with some of the financial companies, the big companies, like the insurance companies or those those groups, and they'll say to me, Well, I know that our you know, our client groups are not in a similar fixed position, you know, with the same assets. And I say, Yes, but whatever they hear from you, they're gonna want in the future. And that's what's exciting because that like I didn't know I could do that. Or I went to my boss and he said, if I worked five more hours, you know, a week, and so I'm gonna do it, he'll put me in the retirement plan. It's like before that, they didn't know anything, you know, they didn't know that there was a retirement plan. So I think wherever you get your information and it's out there in many different ways, and a lot of people are trying to make a difference, which is exciting.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:26

So it is exciting. It is really exciting just to hear the conversations that we're having as compared to those that we were having even 10 or 15 years ago. So Cindy, Wiser's resources have been described to me as practical tools for every stage of a woman's life. What do you think women are looking for most often in those resources? And what resource do you wish every woman knew existed? Let's see.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:56

I mean, I think what people want is their particular information, which might not be the generic. I mean the worst of it is the small business people, you know, because they don't they don't have anyone who's ever run a small business. I run a small nonprofit, so it's like running a small business. So when when people tell me, don't you think they should do this, I think like, no, I'm not gonna stick those people to these poor people poor people that are trying to run a business or something. But, you know, to find the easiest way to get access for people and and to, and that's what I think we're you know, people really like about our information. So so we have the National Resource Center on Women in Retirement, and and with that, there's a lot of information on where you can get the resources or which tools you can use and you know to figure out. And when people people will say, Well, I just heard on the radio some talk show, and you know, you need you need a million dollars for retirement. I'm never gonna have a million dollars. And you say, Well, go to this tool over here and start putting in all the premiums you're gonna be paying up until up until retirement age, and you'll see how they get to the million dollars. But you can do, you can do better, believe me. So people like, you know, finding out because they don't know how to do those calculations. It's you know, depending on your age, I think, and you know what your family has done. Because I tell people if, you know, if you come from a family where everybody's around the barbecue and they're talking about how the 401k is not doing well, then you know what kind of a family you know you're in and where to get access. You can, you know, who's that guy over there that was just spouting all these things about you know, target date funds and and things that people that would help them make, you know, help them like to invest, you know, people need to uh, you know, get rid of that.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:03

So anyway, I am that nerdy person at the family barbecues, I'm not gonna lie. Um so this is our first women's

Tools Checklists And Plan Access

SPEAKER_07 1:05:13

retirement security day, the very first one, and we are going to have one annually. What do you all think plann sponsors should do between this year and next year?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Yeah, I'll I'll jump in. So, you know, I think again, the the work that that we're doing around this is bringing awareness, right? And and I think it starts there. First, you have to identify that there is a problem and clearly define that problem before you can ever solve the problem, right? And so I think you know what plant sponsors need to do is is really understand that this is a problem, that there are significant gaps and and start to work with advisors and you know record keepers and TPAs on on how to address these concerns. I think the being able to have resources for this data and and look at their population demographically and not only from you know men to women, but also you know, what age groups do we have that we we serve as employees? I think plant sponsors are starting to accept the responsibility of what they're putting together. It's not just, hey, we let's have a plan, let's throw it out there, sign this piece of paper, and and now we have a retirement plan. I think plant sponsors are now becoming clearly aware that they have a responsibility to the employees to be able to create a plan that works for their participants, not only At a broad level, but also down to the individual level. And so what I would like to see plan sponsors do over the course of the next year and then into the next decade is really accept that responsibility and then begin to take action, you know, measurable, consistent, deliberate, intentional behaviors that create greater security for everyone at large in the retirement community, but also specifically focus on the needs of women. Because as we mentioned, you know, there are interruptions in a woman's work history and their work in their work tenure. And some of those are voluntary and some of those are forced. Who's going to take care of grandma? When she's ill, you know, those are those are forced situations. I I didn't sign up for that. It just happened and you have to respond. And so unfortunately, women are historically the ones that have to step forward and do that. I don't know how we address those those gaps, but it it can be disruptive to a woman's career and the repercussions of that. Okay, I need to take a year off to have a child, I need to take another year off to raise that child, and then oh, I'm going back to work in you know six months, doesn't really work for everybody. And so because behind that might be, oh, I'm about to go back to work. Now a parent has become ill, and now I have to continue you know stop working for longer. And then how do we get back into the industry? Right. I mean, it's it's the story that we've all been told and and all felt in our younger ages of, oh, you need credit. Well, but you don't have any credit. Well, how can I get credit if you won't give me credit? But you need credit to have credit. I think the story becomes, you know, well, why did you stop working? Well, I've been off for five years. Well, why did you, you know, an understanding of an employer to say, well, you know, this person took this time out in order, and so let me give them another opportunity. And so I think women are faced with that a lot more than than men ever are, questioning gaps in their resume and and why they took time out or why they took a year or two years or five years away from the workforce to address family concerns. I think there needs to be a greater awareness and greater understanding of how to help folks navigate that, both on the employer and on the employee side.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:50

Yeah, I agree. What do you, Steven, think that financial advisors should be doing differently over the course of the next year?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

Over the course of the next year. You know, that's a that's a tough question. You know, I for me as and as an advisor, the things that I work on are a lot of the soft skills. You know, how do I speak to people? How do I lead them, you know, down this journey? How do I how do I make this complex, scary financial world very simple and and benign that they can accept it and understand it? And so I think the psychology and the behavior finance piece, I think is becoming more and more important as a financial advisor. Because I think people are gaining more access through technology to the information, but they still need someone to translate. And so I look at what I do for a lot of my clients, male and female, as a translator, as somebody that can soften the scary complexity of it and make it very simple for them to understand. And I think advisors need to adopt the role as leaders and educators in the space that is a little confusing to others. Let's simplify it. Let's not make it so scary and complex. How can we meet the client at their level of understanding? And I I think the work that I try to do in behavioral finance and in psychology, you know, and asking those questions, well, where are you in your understanding of investments? Are you a level 10 or are you a level five? And if so, if you if you can admit to me that you're a five, then I need to come down and meet you at that level of conversation so it's clear and I'm not talking over you or below you in any way, shape, or form. And so uh, if I were speaking to an audience of of young new advisors and even some older advisors, that would be the one thing I think that we all need to be able to do is be able to communicate at the client's level so there's a clear understanding and it's not so intimidating or or scary to them.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:16

Agreed. Um, okay, I want each of you to complete this sentence. Cindy, we'll start with you. Closing the gap starts with blank.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:27

It starts with educating people about the Sabres match and waiting to hear what's when when those regulations come out and make sure that you're one of the people that gets a match from the government when as soon as they start.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:43

Excellent. Steven?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

I I would I would almost piggyback on that. It starts with education early. I've said this before that we used to have home economics, but I really do think it needs to be home economics, right? Understanding of what how what it takes to run a household, what finances look like, because it is I think in in in terms of our life's journey, one of the most impactful things that we have to learn and understand. And I don't think that education is oftentimes being taught in the home. As I said, you know, our parents can't teach us what they don't know. Our schools aren't really educating and teaching it at to the degree and to the level that that we need to. And it's not until you know, folks' life hits them as it did me, that they gain an understanding of it, right? It's for for a lot of folks until they get enrolled in their first 401k at age 21, that they have any exposure to the stock market for many people. Their 401k or their retirement plan becomes their first exposure into investing. And so I think that needs to change. So I would say it begins with education.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:09

And early, early education.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

Early education.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:12

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Uh, what is one action for every woman listening? One action they should take.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Get a I I would say selfishly, get a financial advisor or a coach. I I see folks run out every January, every gym is packed. Yeah. And by April, everyone is, you know, half of those people have left, and folks will spend hours doing reviews on, hey, I'm gonna get a new trainer. I I think the same excitement and energy needs to go into finding a coach or a you know financial advisor or someone to help them steer the ship early is is very important. So yeah, I would I would say people need to to take that step, get someone that's in their corner, or at least if if it's not someone or some, you know, make it something. I mean, there's access to information on such a high degree now, whether it's you know through the internet or you know, chat GPT or Claude or you know, AI technology, you can ask these questions where it's you know in the comfort of your home or you know, where you're not staring at another person. I I think a lot of folks have a fear of being viewed as,

What Sponsors Should Do Next

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

oh, you should know this, right? Um and so I think the technology allows people to access the information with without having to to sit across from somebody and feel intimidated. And so, you know, whether it's you know, classes online or or things like that, I I think people need to take that step.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:53

No, I agree. You know, I think it's a shame how many people that we come across um in in the plans that we serve that think that they don't have enough money for a financial advisor and that the financial advisor won't want to work with them. And then when I'm working with new financial advisors, because I do a lot of 401k training with with new advisors that have just, you know, started in a business and want to know more about 401ks. And the one thing I say to them is, you know, you guys are so lucky because you are probably the only financial advisor some of these people are ever gonna meet, and you can actually impact their lives for the better. So you need to take that seriously as part of your job and you need to be passionate about it because these people need you. And they those those 401k advisors may be the only one they ever see because they are too nervous to ask somebody or they think they don't have enough money. So I totally, I totally agree. I would I would encourage everybody to have a financial advisor. Cindy, what's one action you think every woman listening should take?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:58

Well, I I think you should remember your longevity. And when you're making these financial decisions that maybe are not going to be good for the next 20 years or so, think about you know how you could change that. Like what do people think about in-home financial care for you know, for long-term care needs? Like all the things you you you're buying this expensive car that maybe you won't even be able to drive, you know, in a couple of years. So it's those financial decisions I think that catch people up in many ways, because they don't think of they don't think of what their life is going to be like. Even even when the the signs are there, like other people in the family, you know, have these issues and things that they need to watch out for as well. So and as Steven said in the beginning, it's sort of like we're all gonna pass on at some point. So you want to pass on with as much as you can.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:05

Yeah, right? Yes, yes. So when we get to Women's Retirement Security Day next year, what do you all think would make make all of us feel like this has been a success and that we've made some real progress over the year?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

You know, it is it is there's an old phrase that you know, it's turning the ship, you know, a ship in the night, right? It is this is a game of inches. I mean, I I think we we have to not only appreciate where we've been and where we're we've where we've come from, but the direction that we're going. It's hard to say. I mean, it it's it's a game of inches. We're moving the needle little by little, one participant at a time, trying to help them, help folks in general, you know, make better decisions. It's hard from a perspective of, you know, as Cindy said, you know, you're making decisions today that will impact you 20 years from now. Not everybody has enough perspective or long-term vision to see that. And so I think there are a lot of challenges in making in moving the needle and moving things along in the direction. But I think we're moving in the right, right on the right path. I think the efforts are being made, and I think things like you know, women's retirement security day and and year and conversations, it matters. It makes an impact. One thing I love about this industry is my ability to impact a lot of people. And generationally, I've watched clients that were, you know, go from single to married to divorced to remarried to now their kids are in college and now their kids are becoming clients. And that impact matters to me, you know, have changed lives. And I think we I think as we move through this, we're we're gonna look up, hopefully a year from now, 10 years from now, and see the work that we've done has impacted not just a few people, but hundreds of people, thousands of people, millions of people, because you know, as I said before, we're all gonna pass through this journey. And at retirement, I've said this before is there are two types of people, those with assets and those without. And I'd certainly I've yet to find the participant or client that says to me, Steven, we've hit retirement. And oh my God, I'm so upset we have too much money. You know, we're we're too well planned here. That conversation has yet to happen. And I think when it does, I'll I'll press the button and retire myself. So, you know, those are the alternatives, those with assets and those without, those with knowledge and those without, those with access and those without. And I think those are the questions that we need to answer and get more people on the on the with side of that equation.

unknown 1:21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:11

Cindy, do you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:14

Yeah, I I would just actually say some of the same things, but I think that if people know that all these things are out there, I mean, we've had 401k days for over 25 years, you know. So I mean, it's not like the pieces aren't out there for people. So I think that everybody wants to invent a new way that, you know, may not be the way for everyone either. So anyway, I I think you know, taking advantage of what's out there. And as Steven said, I I I know a lot of women feel that way about you know, financial planners, or it has to be a woman, or or you know, it doesn't have to be a woman, you know, it it there's just such individual experiences for people. So most of my mail now comes a lot of it from end-of-life things and long-term care insurance, and and I think all of those things are worth investigating. So those those are good partners to have too, I think, to so that people are really prepared.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:25

What is a final message you all would give to a woman who feels behind?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

That's what we call it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:40

So I think the only way to do anything about it is to get some professional help. And if you can save more. I mean, I think I don't like to see people beating themselves up because they've just done all these things for the people in their family, and so they've used up too much money. I mean, you just have to put your boots on and start, you know, marching to figure out how you're gonna fix it, and you need help to do that. So, you know, I mean, even the banks have people there that you can ask questions, you know, like or just the basics. And I've known a lot of people that that's how they started was they just talk to the guy that sits in the you know, the chair with his name on his on his desk or something, and can give you can give you some advice in the beginning anyway. So make sure you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

So yeah, I I would I I would I tell people all the time, listen, it's never gonna get easier than it is today, right? You know the procrastination is is probably the the the biggest drawdown of success, right? Or detractor from from potential success. And so start today, whether you're 50 and and you're in the quote unquote retirement red zone, or whether you're 20 and thinking about, you know, how do I pay for my rent? How do I, you know, there are tools and resources readily available. Find a coach, find somebody to help guide you, but start, you know, just just begin. And it doesn't have to begin with perfection, it just just begin, just start somewhere. So that that would be my guidance.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:30

What's a final message you would give to an employer or a financial advisor who wants to help but doesn't know where to start?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:38

You know, for a financial advisor, you know, learn the industry. Yes, the technical skills matter. Learn people. Learn people. This is a people business, you know, when and it's about connecting with individuals and having a genuine interest in helping and serving others. And I and I think that's one of the the soft skills that I don't know that they still teach in in behavioral finance and and in in these you know rooms where you know you're becoming an advisor. I remember I don't I know it wasn't part of my initial training. Um it was more about, hey, this is how the market works and runs. And so I I think those soft skills or I would tell an entry-level advisor or a beginning advisor to learn the soft skills. You know, how do we how do you care for people? How do you listen?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:34

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

How do you learn from people? How do you how do you speak to people? How do you meet them at their place of need? You know, I I would I would start with you know

Final Advice And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 1:25:43

that as an advisor. The technical stuff, it changes and and there are ways to learn that. You'll always learn that. But if you can't make a common connection with with somebody sitting across the table from you, then you're not going to be very good at this business, no matter what, how much technical skill you have. For a plan sponsor, I would say the same thing. Go out and find a financial advisor. You know, these plans have gotten complicated. It's not as much as, hey, let me sign a piece of paper and now we have a plan, voila. It is okay, now we've got a plan. How do we now guide our employees to retirement security and success? You know, how do we create opportunities for people to move into retirement comfortably, safely, and with the appropriate guidance? How do we put the appropriate resources around them? So, you know, I would say the same thing to a plan sponsor is find the resources, find somebody that that genuinely cares about people and and that will has the technical skills and the resources to serve not only the plan, but also its participants, because that's where that's what it's all about is serving the participants.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:02

I totally agree. I, you know, I get so frustrated when a client comes to me and says, I haven't seen our financial advisor in five years, which we hear, I mean, it's not uncommon. And it's so frustrating when that happens because when you're choosing a financial advisor for your plan, you need to be choosing someone who's gonna service the plan and service the participants. Otherwise, why have a plan?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:25

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it it is it is it is frustrating as well. You know, when I when I started in the career, I I would hear senior advisors say to deal with this participant, or I don't want to, well, why did you why are you doing the job then? That is that is the job, is is taking care of the participants. And so whether you're serving the plan from the committee level down, or whether you're working doing one-on-ones with with participants, that is the job. So, you know, if that's what you've signed up for, then deliver on that.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:04

Exactly. Cindy, do you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:08

No, I I just I I agree that it has to be one-on-one. I mean, at least some of the time. I I have an insurance policy that I on on a property that I have. And every year when they give me the rising costs, you know, I realize I haven't heard from them again the whole year. You know, I mean, I can figure out whether I want to continue the insurance, but it really aggravates me. So I'm sure that if they were my financial planner, they would not be for very long. So I think that's what people are looking for from a good planner. I think they want to, they want to know. And they want to be asked those questions. Like, I've I've done a lot of programs in the past of telling the planners like what are some of the things you can say that are going to make people happy that you're asking them. And, you know, it becomes like, do you have the account for the sister who's been sick her whole life or something, and you know nobody else is going to be there to pick up the pieces for her care. Or, you know, do you have anybody in your family? You know, the more generic questions. People really like to hear that you're thinking of the whole holistic piece of this, you know, that you might need extra, extra savings to take care of.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:27

So thank you. Cindy and Stephen, I just want to thank you both so much for sharing your time and your insights and your perspectives with us today. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of The Gap. If you believe that you have an innovative approach to closing the gaps in the retirement savings for Americans and you would like to share your ideas, please let me know. My contact information is in the show notes. And if you want to get in touch with Cindy or Steven, their contact information will be in the show notes as well. Don't forget to follow, share, and leave a review if you've enjoyed this conversation. Together, we can keep closing the gap one plan, one policy, and one participant at a time.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

Thank you.