The Trap of Offense‼️

In this episode, we dive into the topic of offense and how easily it can take root in our hearts if left unchecked. We discuss some of the possible roots of offense, how to recognize when you’re holding onto it, and why forgiveness is essential to our walk with Christ.

We also talk about how forgiveness is first a choice, but not one we can make in our own strength. We need the help of the Holy Spirit to truly forgive, especially when the hurt is deep or an apology never comes.

Most importantly, we reflect on why we’re called to forgive when we understand the depth of what Jesus has forgiven us. Our prayer is that this conversation encourages you to let go of offense and walk in the freedom that Christ has for you.

We hope you enjoy this episode and continue to walk this journey with us. God bless you 🩷

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi guys, welcome back. Welcome to Renew and aka. Anticritse. You're what? Anthony Critzes. I'm Pauline. I'm Blessing. And this is Glory. Glory.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Let's go. How are you guys feeling today? How are you doing? Pretty good. Okay. Tired, but good. Yeah, that's that's nice. I'm hungry. I'm hungry. I feel good. I'm good. That's good. That's good.

unknown 0:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

How are you? I'm doing good. Increase volume. I'm doing good. Say like you believe it. I believe it.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

So we last time guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Last episode. Um the heart. Yeah. And the a lot of the matters are issues concerned with the heart. And then we pointed out about pointed it out. Sorry. That um it's I guess the most important factor. And it's much more about the heart than the outward appearance and transformations from within. And it's from that that our outward appearance changes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

It was talking about offense as well. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Jealousy, covetousness, envy, all of that jazz. And then we said we were gonna come back in the next episode to talk about offense. So like we don't like. And answer my question.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah, you had a question. Which was what is the root of offense? What do you think is the root of offense? I think, well, I think this is one. I don't think there's a singular root, but I do think, like, for example, in like friendships, relationships, whatever the case may be, um, like on my expectations, like maybe you had this unspoken thing, like you were like, Oh, I wouldn't do this to you, or like I didn't think this person would do this to me, or I expected to do this and you didn't do this. But it's like in those cases, the person's not even aware that they offended you. So that's like all on you, and you're just taking on this burden of offense, and you were slowly just chipping away. But also, the person is just there, they don't even know what they did to you. So I feel like that's one of the ways you can be offended. Yeah. Just by like not voicing out or communicating what you want a person to do and then not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And I think um another guess cause slash root I would say is um the fact that people want to be valued and when you violate that, it's like people will get offended, right? People want to have the sense of like acceptance in the world. And so yeah, when that is violated, like people get offended. And I think well, offense especially happens when the person is close to you, or usually like when you are in a close relationship with a person. I think that's when you can get or that's when the chances of you getting offended is pretty high compared to someone who gave you road rage on the streets, right? You're highly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You're highly to get offended when the person knows you because tying back to what you said, like there are certain expectations you have of that person, known and unknown, communicator or not communicator, you just have those expectations, and so then violating that makes you offended.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yeah, I don't know the answer to the question. What the root of offense is. I I I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer because I I I think I definitely do hear that it comes from different places, but I don't know if there's a difference between source and root, and whether those are sources or I guess mediums in which offense can come through, and whether there's still actually an underlying root, but what that roots, I don't know. So I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, same seem to have an answer. Which of us to you I don't really have an answer, yeah. I think you already touched on it.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Like moving on, what is offense? Like by that definition, like what what does it mean to be offended? How does that look like that?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Dictionary, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Who do we like? Merriam Webster.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Oxford, Oxford, Oxford, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

What did Merriam do to you?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Wait, I've always always just been a one that's a dictionary. Dictionary. Oxford is just that.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Merriam, I I'm your girl. Is it Oxford is just that?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

I don't even know. Or a boy. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Okay. According to well. Okay. The definition we're looking for is a feeling of anger or displeasure caused by an insult. Yeah, to feel upset or insulted. But that's to take offense, to feel upset or insulted. But I guess it's I maybe it means something maybe in in the Bible or in Christianity, it's like after that, it's like you now hold on to it. I guess holding on to a burge. Yeah. I guess. But then is different is getting offended different from holding onto offense, having offense to your heart? Are there are there different things? Do you get offended and then you now decide whether or not you want to?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I saw like a uh Greek word for offense. Because like in we're looking in the context of the Bible here, and the Greek word is scandalon, s-k-n d-a-l-o-n, originally referred to the trigger stick of an animal trap, the bait used to ensnare a victim. Oh lololo.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

That is my favorite authority.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Jump a beer. Jumbo bear. It's baits. It's a bait.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

That's a key word. The beats of seat. That's a key word. That's a key word. The title of that book came from the cooking again.

unknown 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Oh, that's easier, yeah. But it's very much his podcasts are so too.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

You should watch his podcast. I will. Yeah. He's very. But yeah, so the bait used to ensnare a victim. Figuratively, it means putting an obstacle in someone's spiritual path that causes them to fall.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

So this is it's a trap. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

It's a trap that enemy uses. And it that that that leads to how it hinders your spiritual growth and your relationship with God as well. Yeah. It's like now you have this thing in your heart.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

You can't even properly block the it blocks the exactly. Blocks the flow, blocks the connection. Yeah. And I guess it's sin because we're supposed to be forg unforgiveness is not. Unforgiveness is sin, yeah. Unforgiveness is sin. And if you hold iniquity in your heart, a lot of no hear you.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, and I think that's why. Oh, that was in one of the verses.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I think it was in Psalm 66 or 66, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And then I think that that is one of the major. I don't want to say major, but just one of the things that Jesus really emphasizes on and why he or why I guess the Bible speaks a lot about offense. I think just the knowing that it is a trap which can hinder your relationship with God from growing. And it kind of makes sense because uh I guess offense is tied to forgiveness slash unforgiveness. You see, and it's like how can you not forgive when your father has forgiven you?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

So I can see how that is like a maybe the root of offense is somehow connected to that, but another another discussion for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, so I can see why um God can take that very personal because it's like, yeah, you're not emulating what I have shown you.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Like I've shown you grace and you can't give us a exactly so yeah, and even where it says if you want to pray or you're having a reality and go make with that person and come back. It's just like, yes, it's actually a thing that actually does need to be dealt with. And I find that especially in in this day and age, it's easy to justify it or make excuses and be like rationalize it's like surely this person, like this person did something wrong, yeah. And so I should be offended by the wrong thing they did. Like it almost makes sense, right? But that's that's not how we're called to live as Christians. Because if if God was to live like that, we wouldn't be you see the problem.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

See the problem, see the issue. And I feel like people also take pride in the fact that um they are they don't talk or they're holding a grudge against a certain person. Like this person did this to me, so I'm not gonna talk to them. I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to associate myself with them, yada, yada, yada, yada. Without going through the rights, because in the Bible, there is the right. There's a process, there's a process to that, there's a procedure to that before you get there. But then people just take it and put it in their chest and they're like, Yeah, I'm not talking to this person anymore. Don't you dare talk to me if you're doing this, like, and yeah, people have to understand that the the way the the way the kingdom works is so contrary, so much contrary to how the world works here. Or yeah, because it's logical. Like, don't talk to this person, don't associate with this person, revenge, bite back, slap the other cheek, slap the twice if you they give you more cue than two, yeah. Like it makes sense, right? Logically, but then when it comes to like the school of the spirit, it's totally different different.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

And the first leads to bitterness, just like killing. And killing. Oh chill, guys. You read it. This thing is is dead.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Is it 15? 15. If you hate your brother, you just can't.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, yeah. You lose what you can kill. And it doesn't even, it doesn't even free.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Like, I don't know. Okay, I've had like I've had bitterness before, and it feels so held onto like this before, and it just feels so like it feels choking, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Drinking or isn't thinking someone would die. It's your mind. It's actually crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

You're like, yeah, I won't talk to this person. But they want to be here.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Imagine, they're just puppet, they're controlling you, or they're controlling every move. They're like, Oh, I'm not going to go here because he is here.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

The person just like doing that. Actually, when they don't know they've offended you, exactly. You're just there, ah, open your mouth. Actually, open your mouth because you're just there. Like, they're just like, oh, and this person's controlling you, and you don't, in fact, the devil is controlling you, don't know. No, literally, and you you think you're you're in control, you think you're you have the power, not knowing that they are they are doing it like this all the while, they're doing it like this. Yeah, it's actually it's very it's humbling. But now how do you it's humbling?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

How do you now identify the offense?

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Identify that you have offense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I did catch it.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

I mean, have you ever like been through a situation where like you had to you call yourself?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Call myself, yeah. I think, yeah, I did, but now it's now now I'm navigating that it was the the issue, the issue, but I think okay, yeah, in catching myself, I'd say like how how you talk about situation, like about the person, and like what are the emotions you have, like towards are you like angry, like what what is going on through your mind? Like, be honest with yourself, just look inward, like you can't see okay. There's my like bro, do you actually care? Like, stop this thing. If you didn't care enough, you'll be here talking about this.

unknown 12:13

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

That's why another thing we like to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Sorry. I know I guess we like to.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

I remember one day, so I was talking about an entirely different story, and then I guess I keep mentioning this girl, mention this girl. The person I'm talking to is like, you know, first of all, before we even get to across the matter, you need to forget this girl. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm not even talking about the like she's not in the main character. So why is she going to be covered up in the car? Why did you come into the conversation? Like, and we sometimes we like to say as like, well, I just don't like this person, but like, what is really going on?

SPEAKER_01 12:51

What's actually going on?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Like, it's it's worth it's worth looking at. Like, it's possible not to really, I guess, love everybody, but it's also possible to not be everyone's best friend, right? Like, that's that's not an issue, right? But it's like, what's really going on when you're like, ah that person, I just don't like her. I don't know. I don't like her energy. Like, look at it. What what what's really there? Right? Like, what is really there? What's really there? Yeah, yeah, I feel like that. And something I've found is that I it's easier to to be in denial. So easy, especially if or um there's denial where you don't want to admit it, and there's d well, I guess that's what denial means, but there's another angle from the one I just said, another angle where it's like you uh you have processed, like your words person has offended you. It's like, yeah, but you want to forgive them so bad, and you're just like, yeah, like I forgive you, and then you're gonna mention my name.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Mention my name.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

You really want to forgive because you're like, yeah, where Christians were supposed to do that, right? And you really want to forgive this person, and you're just like, yeah, like I forgive you, and like you, you actually didn't forgive them. You didn't, you maybe you didn't ask God for help. You thought, like, you know, your will was enough, like you can't will your thoughts. You can't will you forgive them like you you have to make the choice to forgive, like because you just has forgiving me. If that's the only reason you forgive that person, then do it. Then it's it's not because they told you story, it's not because they know the pain or the weight of what they've done to you, it's not because they will ever understand the weight of what they did to you, it's not because like the you actually have to come, like this person might never actually know what they have done, right? But because Jesus Christ forgave, forgive, I have to, and I'm going to forgive this person. I choose to forgive this person and then I guess work with the Holy Spirit to then actually separate them from that crime that they have committed. Which brings me to forgive and forget. Blessing thoughts. What are your thoughts on forgive and forget?

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Um I'll come back.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Okay, that's fine. Probably why you say that.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

No, she wanted to say something, so I felt like it was not forgiven for.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

What did you want to say? Oh, I was just gonna say, like um, I think like what you said is really important because when you your why is not really like brought to light. Like it because I remember there was a person that um had offended me, and like I was on the side where um I want to forgive the person, and you know, we want forgotten. And I didn't I didn't even really process everything that happened. Or I feel like because I wanted to be the person's friend again so bad that I was like, that was my why. I'm forgiving them so that we can move past this and we'll like have like a great friendship like it was before. And then it was just this whole journey where I started now processing things or like realizing what actually happened and everything that dah da. And then now it was I feel like the seed was already there, but it was just because I didn't address it fully that it started growing something in me because I feel like when it grows, then it's then harder to tackle. Yeah, it's harder to tackle because it's like you're addressing the not only that thing, but like what else has sprung up from it. Exactly. So had I had it been like a case where I maybe my why was like my why was different and I actually processed everything, I feel like the whole issue would have been dealt with like quicker and sooner, and I would have healed quicker or forgiven fully quicker and all these other things. And yeah, that's what I was just saying.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah, I think a way for me. I guess how I identified with the the whole denial thing, and the just the fact that like my aunts are always cute and they asked me what if I'll get this person. Oh yeah, like I have this one helps me. Then it's like if you think about it, like no, and it's like yeah, but you know, this is, and it's like girl, you have it, and it's okay to conditional, exactly, it's conditional, right? And for me, my first I was in denial, and I feel like that denial was pride in disguise. You felt like it was pride in disguise, like I was like, yes, like I'm a Christian, like obviously, like yeah, forgive this person, like I have forgiven this person, right? New angle on the bigger, but I didn't want to admit the fact that like I'm actually struggling and you were hurt by this, and I was hurt by this. Like, I didn't want to say it, right? Because again, perceived image, like what people think about me, people probably think I'm weak, like people probably think I was stupid for making the decision and I was this, da da da. All of that, right? So, me admitting that to myself was also like hurting my ego type thing, and I didn't want to do that, and that was like pride, so that was pride in disguise as denial. Uh pride, sneaky and um sneaky uh sorry, I was gonna say something and what's actually a part. Sorry guys, pride in disguise, and uh just the fact that you said first was denial, yeah. I said something, but I cut um it will come again, it will come again, it will come again, it will come again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then it was definitely the denial aspect.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah. What did I say before? Forgive or forget. Truth or cap. Just sounds so jazz.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Factor cap.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Fact or cap. Factor cap. Um I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I don't okay, like for forgetting wise, like, is it like for I don't think it's forgetting in the sense that you can actually like forever forget. Because I was saying like your memory is like spiritual amnesia.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

No, it's like all things are possible in Christ.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Okay, spiritual amnesia. My thing is tomorrow. Should we is teleportation, she'll start talking about it. Don't worry, I'm gonna get that.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I'm gonna get to where Philip got to. Listen, don't worry. Don't worry, no, don't don't don't don't read on my career.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Don't worry, no, I work in the world. I won't.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I won't. Like, I think you can never actually actually forget unless, like, I don't know. I don't think your human mind will ever actually forget something. Yeah, but I feel like the con like you making it conscious, like to not remember it, I guess, or not hold it against a person. That would be like the forgetting aspect. I don't think necessarily like a I won't I've no I've like erased this thing for my mind. But I think the forgiving part is something we have to do regardless, because that's it's not what Jesus came to do for us. And so I feel like we do have to follow in his image and forgive others as it's done to us the same way he did.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

I do I don't know if it's factor. I don't know which Well, it's not biblical.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I don't think that I know where they got it from. It's not their worth of word. Yeah, but where where the I guess where the the concept is coming from is um as far as the East is from the West, so he has put away your transmissions from you, right? It's like in that sense, like God has actually in fact forgotten us, and if we are to forgive, as Christ forgave us, it's like that will be our that's we should also do that. So I do agree with you in terms of like you it's it's not memory wipe, right? Yeah, I think but it's it detaching is then like detaching that thing from the person or what they did from you, yeah. But yeah, uh let me just let me just stop there.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I was going to go down a whole loop. I think I think that's that's yeah, obviously, yeah, like just detaching the the the fence from the person.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

So forgive or forget is no word for in the Bible, but forgive or forget, or what they mean. What it should mean as biblical Christians.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

I mean, if you think about how even God relates with us, like, and I feel like that even ties into I think episode two, where we have this like concept of um a father figure, and then we kind of like project it onto God, right? Where we think, oh, if we're coming to God, God is going to come and tell you, but you did this and this and this and this and this, right? But then that's not how He relates with us, right? So I feel like even with us. Whenever, yes, our sense of forgiveness, once we confess our sins and then we receive the gift of forgiveness, and like, yes, all all's well, right? We have to understand that God does not relate with us from that place of that sin that we committed, like, right? He's it's blotted out, like he doesn't remember it, right? He doesn't remember it. So I think you're not to come and say exactly you have to kind of apply it. But I think I think people just trying to they try to logically think about it and be like, oh, how can I forget, right? For example, out of context of what we're talking about, but like when Jesus told Nicodemus that like they have you have to be born again, right? And he's thinking about still logical, it's like how can I do it? I go with this room and but that's not what he meant by that. So even though forget forgive and forget is not biblical in the sense that it's not written word for word in the Bible, it's not the logical concept, exactly the concept of you actually forgetting. Well is this spiritual amnesia? You forgetting, right? But then in the sense that you detaching the pain or the offense from the person is what would be termed as forgetting.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

I think the whole spirit also does have to help with that. Yeah whether it's through spiritual spiritual amnesia or not, it will still have to come from him. You can't will, you can't will. Don't quote her on it, guys. Like I'm just yeah, it'll still have to come from from the Holy Spirit. Everything is from the Holy Spirit, man. Can't do anything. I can't do anything on my own. But I was thinking about something, and I don't remember what I was thinking about, but I will they'll come back to me.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Okay. I actually don't like I'm literally trying to remember what you were thinking about. What I was thinking about, like it's crazy. Um but it will come to me, it'll come to me. Will come. Oh, come to me. Oh yes! So going back to where you said your why, so it was one thing, um, the denial aspect and then my why. My why was I wanted to forgive the person on my own terms in the sense that I wanted the person to understand what he or she did before I was able to say, yes, like I'm forgiving you, you earned that, right? So it was very difficult for me to come out of that mindset because I'm like, surely this person must have known, like, Holy Spirit, aren't you with this person? Aren't you talking to this person? Like, there's no way this person has zero idea of what he or she did, right? So it was very difficult for me to like actually like come to the fact that, like, okay, it was it was a help of the Holy Spirit that had to remind me that look, if Jesus Himself waited for your justification for your why, like, then he wouldn't have died on the cross. Like, he would have never died on the cross. Like, I'm waiting for the whole world to come and explain to me why they did what they did and acknowledge that they did what they did before I died on the cross, then all of us are going to hell. All of us, right? Right? Instead, like he looked outside of that and was like, I don't, you don't need to explain yourself to me, right? I love you, I love you this I love the whole world. Like, that is what love is, right? So even with that, Holy Spirit had to help me to be able to understand that before I was able to, I guess, understand that, oh yes, so that was offense, and that's not what love is. So, yeah. So thank you, thank you, Holy Spirit. Because that was I remember what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

So I was gonna two things actually. I was going to make a side segue before we go into, I guess, healing in terms, because you've said now, okay, detaching the person. I guess the person from the offense. Where does healing come in the cases of I guess going through a traumatic experience or going through just really being offended, and that's what the person did to you has now harmed you or done changed certain things in you that have to come back to the way God intended them to be. Um, but what I was gonna say is, or what I was going to guess to talk about is I guess what how I guess the understanding of what God has done for us in terms of forgiveness can help us forgive people. And how that should I guess be the reasoning, like the overarching and forgive me because not because you said sorry, not because you understand, but because God actually forgave me. And I feel like sometimes for that to happen, we need to fully think about what we've been forgiven of. Because I feel like sometimes as Christians, we don't, it's like salvation, yeah, but we don't fully actually process, like asides, okay, I lied yesterday, God forgave me. Like what he actually did on the cross in terms of salvation, we have to fully understand that because that was the greatest sacrifice, right? We have to fully understand that because it's it's the blood that Jesus shed that causes, I guess, this forgiveness cleansed by the blood to even happen, right? So even thinking sometimes we we get, I guess, some emotional quote unquote with it, and like, oh, wow, like you know, I was such a bad person yesterday, and like God has forgiven me. And like, while that is really good, we need to really think past emotions and like okay, why did you just have to come? I would have like I was not in right standing with God, I would be going to hell. Like, actually think of that, what salvation really means, and how forgiveness could only come through that salvation and like the depth of it, right? But yeah, that was segue, segue. Healing.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Healing. Healing, what about it?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

We spoke about how what do you speak about? Like you spoke about how it might take a while, or sometimes it takes a while to actually fully work with the Holy Spirit to detach the person from this possible crime that they have committed. Right? But I guess where is that the same as healing? Where does healing come to play, especially if it's a I guess traumatic experience? And especially in a case where also perhaps you were not even aware of that you you need to forgive this person, like something happened to you when you were younger and like you don't you're just now coming into the realization of it. How does one, I guess, work through that? Because you said something about how you don't have to fully process everything to now arrive and be like, Yes, I have forgiven, right? Okay, but how do you kind of work?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Okay, I said that because I feel like people confuse or people make forgiveness emotional in a sense that um people feel like they have to feel a certain way towards a certain person before they feel like they've forgiven the person, and that's not necessarily true in a sense that it violates. I mean, based on our conversation, we don't know the answers fully.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Correct is for wrong.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, correct is wrong. We don't know the answers fully because yeah, it's basically like a opinionated thing and whatnot. But then based on our conversation, it violates the fact that forgiveness is a choice and can also be a process, right? So you waiting to feel a certain way about a person does not even make sense because that feeling comes from a choice you made, right? Exactly. So if you don't make that choice, then how would you even arrive to that point of you feeling like yeah, I've forgiven this person, but then even the whole feeling thing does not make sense. It doesn't make sense in the sense that like you're waiting to you're you're just boxing forgiveness in into a feeling form that but that's not what it is. If that's the case, then again, point back to God. It doesn't feel like for it feel like yeah, like it just it just wouldn't happen. It was a choice he made on the cross that yes, Lord forgive them for they don't know what they're doing. It was a a choice he made, right? And so that just debunks the whole, like, yeah, I have to arrive before I can say yes. Yeah, yeah. I've forgiven the person. So that's why I said that. And then no, I agree, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but um how I came to the case.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

I guess how then do you, I guess, process healing and still having that hurts or this thing without and like I've forgiven this person, but I'm still working through this hurt or this pain or this thing that they have caused, or this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

So how do you navigate that? Um, I would say there are no wrong answers. My personal difference, just personal based off of personal experience and how I'm going through that, right? Everybody's experience might be different, right? So I'm not saying, oh, this is the way or this is how healing should look like because it looks like looks like different things to different people. But for me, it had to again flow from that choice of okay, I had to think about um my salvation and what Jesus did on the cross for me, like exactly what you said, right? It's like how can I do this if the Lord has forgiven me? Like, there's no way I'm not going to demonstrate forgiveness to someone else if he, King of Kings, Lola, has forgiving me. Like, it doesn't make sense, right? And again, we're Christians, that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to walk like the way Jesus walked, right? So I came from that understanding, and from that understanding, I guess a revelation of love and how we're called to love, right? We're called to love our enemies, right? Enemies here doesn't necessarily mean someone who's fighting you, or it can mean someone who has offended you as well, right? At that point, they can become your enemy. So it's like, okay, then how do I demonstrate love to my enemy? Because what difference does it make if I love my friends and the person who's offended me, I don't love them, right? So I had to flow from that understanding as well. And um from that made the choice that okay, I'm going to forgive this person. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all of a sudden the hurts that event caused, like it just vanished. No, right? So from that choice, I was like, okay, separate, I'm separating this person from the events, like, okay, maybe the person didn't mean it the way he or she meant it. Or um there was this book I was reading with Stephanie Ike was like, oh, nobody hurts you from a place of love, and that it's usually like a crack that the enemy uses and he exploits it and uses for his bidding, right? So nobody hurts you from a place of love. And I guess those little little understandings came to me. It's like, okay, fine, I am going to actually forgive this person. Not necessarily because the person said sorry, not necessarily because the person understood what he or she did, not necessarily because like something bad happened to that person. I felt bad, so I was like, well, I'm going to forgive, like, not necessarily because of that, but then just those like foundational um foundational information cause me to make my decision. And then from that, I work towards the process of healing, acknowledging that, acknowledging that I am hurt, and so Holy Spirit, please help me out of this hurt that I am I guessing going through. And personally, I cannot necessarily well now I can engage with a person of some sort. I believe I can, I can, right? But then it comes or it boils down to reconciliation. Because remember when I first said usually offense happens to offense happens when the person who offended you is especially close to you because trust has been broken, vulnerability, like you can't be vulnerable with that person anymore because it's like, yeah, just a lot of things are now distorted and things can just go back to the way it was before. Right. Especially if the person has not necessarily like acknowledged or seen or seen what they've done or whatnot, right? Because there's a chance it can happen again. And I guess we can go through that scripture in Matthew 28. So basically it's where like I guess we're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Matthew 18 15 to 17. I'll read it in KGB. Moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if you will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, everyone may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah. So um There's a process to There's a process to it, and then forgiveness doesn't necessarily equate to reconciliation just as all the time. Exactly. Obviously, like some situations are different, right? But I'm going on the extreme case of if there's someone who is close to you and then they did hurt you whatsoever, and then it's like you're finding it really hard to reconcile the person. This is the I guess the process to it. You don't just say, Oh yeah, I'm cutting out this person, just like that, whatever. And it's very situational because obviously there's some relationships worth fighting for, right? But sometimes yeah, if it's if it's not working, so personally, that's I guess that's where I'm at in my healing. Understanding understanding, it's like okay, yeah, I'm going to keep my distance. Doesn't mean I don't love you, yes, I do love you, but I'm going to keep my distance, knowing that yeah, like I don't know if I can be reconciled with you, even though yes, I'm forgiving you if I don't know that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

It does. But I have a question that will hey it'cause it will cause problems, I'm gonna ask it. Well, you can ask, I'll ask it in the comments.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Pauline. Don't forget it, write it down. I won't forget it.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Um yeah, let me write it down actually.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

What was that gonna say?

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Um I think she said hurt people from Place of Love.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Oh yeah. Um I think like one part for me that really helped me um under like forgive and okay. I'm I'm referring to two personal experiences because the way I went about the healing and everything was very different. Because for the first one I really um focused on the hurt people, hurt people and how it is not like no one hurts you from a place of love and how um I know like this person probably didn't mean to do it, it's just how things played out and everything, which I guess helped me get through it. And I think at that time, like before it even happened, like I I knew it was gonna happen. Like God, yeah, hey, Charlie, you know how God gives us gifts and all these things, so I knew it was gonna happen, so I kind of had time to prepare and I prayed for myself and I prayed for my heart and I was like, I need help to forgive this person, and I also I was also like praying against I was praying for the person because I knew that it was not from a place of um love or them, you know what I mean? And another case was I think where I hadn't processed everything, so later I started processing things and I was just getting going through the emotions with everything, and like I was just growing in bitterness and all these things towards this person, and this person then I don't know, they were probably reaching like going through their own thing as well, and then they reached out to me to try and have a conversation. But at that time, I was offended, I was hurt, and I was not putting in the work to heal or move on from the thing, right? I was I was so like passionate about like speaking ill, like when they speak, like when that person's name comes up, I'm there, like the loudest person in the room, I'm active and all that stuff. And then now when the person reached out, it was actually to clear the air and reconcile. But because I was hurt, it went bad, and I ended up saying things hurting to not offend the person because I was offended and that now hurt people hurt people. I was speaking from a place of hurt and I hurt the person, and then later, after that conversation, I then got convicted. Like every time I'll try to ignore it, I'll try to ignore the issue, the fact that I need to heal, the fact that I need to forgive this person properly, and all these things, and I started working on that, and eventually it led to us having another conversation, and it was only when we had that conversation that I then realized that oh, I actually hurt the person as well when we had that conversation because I was saying all these things, and it was just like, and in that moment, I thought I was in the right, I thought, oh, you're fully just like everything I'm saying is valid and nothing I'm saying is wrong, da da da da. I didn't even think of the other person's um feelings at all, especially because I kind of had I had a great relationship with the person, right? And um, yeah, after that, like we obviously had our conversation and everything, the air was cleared and all that, but will I say like things are the same? No, it's just that I've I can say that I've detached the person from the sin or the situation offense or whatever, and I can now talk to the person normally, but we're not obviously close, but it is what it is. If we get close, we get close, if we don't, it's okay. But it's just that thing of um I feel like even when I was offended, um what's this? It also affected my prayer life, it affected my relationship with God because I genuinely felt heavy. I felt like even when it'll be times to like go deep and all that stuff, like I genuinely couldn't. I felt like I was trapped, like in this place where it was just frustrating. There'll be times where I don't even have words, I'll just be like, um, I'll just say, like, oh, I'll see the person and like that burns my mood or anything, and then I'll just cry. I don't have words, da-da-da-da-da-da. But until I dealt with that, then I realized the weight actually, I actually felt lighter, like physically, I felt lighter, and I was like, I didn't even know that it was having this much of an effect on me. So I think it's something really it's very sneaky, that offense thing, and it's just like pride, it's like pride, like you won't realize how much is actually affecting you until you actually deal with it and move on. So that's my little two cents too. Whatever you want had to say.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yes, it's been real, yeah, it's been very real. Don't be offended, don't don't offend to watch yourself. You must not be the one that God is leaving us the night and nine to to go and collect all the time. You can't be the one they're always collecting.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

But yeah, um something sorry, something little she said, it's very little, but then just the fact that she was able to put her pride aside, or she was able to humble herself enough to realize that she hurt somebody else. So I feel like that's that's that's the definition of taking the highway sometimes. We don't always have to. You might be right, it might be logical. It's like, yes, all these things I'm saying is really true. You did this and this and this and this, but sometimes we don't have to come at it with that. We have to humble ourselves and put that aside and just like possibilities. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

So, yeah, but yeah, thank you guys. Um, we'll see you on the next episode. Be great to solve these other differences. The brothers and quissons are often.