Bridging the Gap Between Law Enforcement & Addiction | Chief Rosier

This episode of Never Alone Live features Chief Deputy Christopher Rosier from Charleston County, South Carolina, who is leading meaningful change at the intersection of law enforcement and recovery.

We dive into how his work is reshaping the way individuals with substance use disorder are treated- focusing on compassion, support, and real solutions instead of punishment. Chief Deputy Rosier shares how his department is working to bridge the gap between law enforcement and the recovery community, helping create pathways to healing rather than cycles of incarceration

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone to Never Alone Live. We are excited today. We have with us from Charleston County, South Carolina, Chief Christopher Rosier. And um, you know, we are we had a we Krista and and Chief met um, you know, not too long ago, and then we had a conversation with uh with Chief Rosier, and he uh told us a lot of the programs that they are running in Charleston County. So we we're really excited because he's gonna tell us about that. You know, today's topic is we're bridging the gap between addiction and law enforcement. And so, so Chief, tell us tell us a little bit about you. What got you uh what got you becoming a police officer and interested in uh this this addiction epidemic?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Yeah, so I actually started my career uh in emergency services. So I was an EMT for a small county in South Carolina, and I noticed that we were continuing going to the same overdose houses day after day, and eventually we would end up going there for a fatality. And I was very early on in my career, and I said, There's got to be something better, you know. And I remember being told, you know, you you go to the call, you clear the call, you go to the next call. And I was like, there's got to be some type of follow-up. So as time went on, I decided to switch into the law enforcement aspect of it. And I've worked for the Mount Pleasant Police Department for 17 years, and we started, uh, at that time it was Chief Carl Richie, we started an overdose program, community wellness unit, and really started developing it. Well, last November he was elected sheriff of Charleston County. So, and he offered me a chief deputy position to come over, and part of that position is going to be running the community wellness unit. So I developed my team and we came over to Charleston County. We started uh January 7th of 2025, and our biggest focus is recovery in the community, bridging the gap from law enforcement to nonprofits to those that are experiencing overdoses. And what can we do? Let's let's eliminate the stigma, reduce the stigma as much as possible, and let's work together. There's stigma among law enforcement related to overdoses, as well as those that are having substance use disorder and law enforcement. So we started having roundtable discussions and started really formulating a program using technology. We implemented a program called uh SIMS Critical Incident Management System. And what that does is it allows us to share information for overdoses in real time with those that are in recovery to provide peer support. Uh, the first year we implemented that Mount Pleasant, we saw a 40% reduction in non-fatal overdoses. So we knew it was working. So we've expanded it countywide. Recently, Charleston County Sheriff's Office has taken over as the lead for that program for Charleston County. Uh, Dorchester County has just implemented that program as well. And our goal is to track every overdose correctly and to provide services in real time for those that need it. One part that we're excited about expanding to is we also have a detention center. Our average detention center population is anywhere between 1200 and 1500 per day. Our goal is to reduce that and provide as many of those individuals that are in crisis services. Uh, so currently, one of the first things we did is when you go to the detention center, if you have a substance use disorder, mental health, any of those uh screenings, we put uh evidence-based screening tools in place. Those screening tools will now get you flagged where we can provide you services while you're in the detention center. And when you're released, put you right into services as well, and then follow-up. The biggest thing is constant follow-up. Now we're taking it a step further and we're very early stages of looking at what we call the yellow line project. We're working with Charleston Center, which is a county-run recovery uh facility, and our goal is to prevent the individuals from even getting incarcerated. So, pretty much yellow line, if you cross this line, then you're going to be booked into the detention center. If you have these certain number of charges and we can provide services to you, we'll hold these charges to you complete programs, and those charges will not even go on your record. So, our biggest thing is getting those that really want the help into recovery, and then those that don't want the help, trying to encourage them to get the help. So, again, we cannot arrest our way out of this crisis that we're going through. We're definitely going through a crisis when it comes to overdoses and mental health. So we want to think outside the box, get information from those in recovery and work through it together. And the biggest way of doing that is by talking to those that have been walk the walk and talk the talk. Um, but we have we've seen some good projects. Um, we do know there's a couple things out there. People fear law enforcement and and you know, totally transparent. Do we go after the drug dealers and make arrest? We do 100%. Um, but those that are having these low-level offenses and you know, that's really trying to make a difference, we want to take that step beyond and not make charges. One thing we do not do, if there's an overdose, we do not make a charge on that. We want you to call the police, we want you to call the sheriff's office, we want you to call EMS, we want to save lives. Um, and then one thing that we have done. So last year, the sheriff's office, before we took over, gave out about 101 um Narcan kits to the public. This year we're already approaching 1800, so a big difference. And we're working with Charleston Center with these purple boxes, like a mailbox, all throughout the county. We rotate them based on spike alerts where we're seeing overdoses, and we're providing free Narcan to the public. Um, the first thing you see when we post about that is why isn't there insulin? Right? Yeah, why aren't there other services that are being provided? We took a lot of backlash on that, which our first post went viral, which was fine. You know, our biggest thing is this is opioid settlement funds, it's not tax dollars, it's from big pharma. Um, and we're able to use those funds to provide services. Um, and our biggest thing is is we want is follow-up. You know, you can't follow up with someone in a week and then forget about them. You have to constantly follow up. So that Simmons program allows us to track those overdoses. We've expanded our services. We have um one mental health clinician in the jail that works directly for the sheriff's office. We we're getting ready to add a second. We have two full-time re-entry specialists that help you get back into society, um, driver's licenses, birth certificates, anything you need helping you find jobs. Um, we've used the opioid settlement funds for um recovery scholarships. So we're paying to put you into recovery. Last week we took someone to CVS and got them their prescription, and then we we're doing the follow-up every week to make sure they're maintaining where they need to be. Um, and then we have one opioid outreach specialist in the detention center, and we just got funded through uh the funds again through opioid settlement funds to add a second to patrol so they'll start going out to these calls and doing some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

So I know it's a lot of information, but we're doing Chris. This is amazing, and I love what you're doing. And I want to kind of I want to you you just kind of gave a lot of information. I kind of want to break down some of the stuff that you're talking about. I mean, the biggest thing you you you know, is you could Charleston County has 500,000 people in it, and the fact that you're able to decrease overdose numbers by 40 using technology, this is this is miraculous. Everyone in every every government in the in the country should be using this. So you call this is the critical incident management system, right? Let's talk a little bit more about this because I mean, more than I mean, we've got a lot of people in recovery. You see all the comments in here. Uh, we but we've got a lot of people in recovery, but we want to bring this and we want our friends to be able to bring this interview to their states so they can actually digest. Oh my goodness, here's uh Chris that's talking about this this system. How do we implement it? So let's talk a little bit about this, and then I want to get into a couple other your programs a little bit more in detail. But let's let's start with this. How does this technology work between you and the addict suffering and the the actual decrease of overdoses?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah, so here's what happens, and sorry, I'm making some notes as I see some of the comments, so I can get back to some of these good questions that are popping up. But yeah, one thing that I wanted to mention is so when there's an overdose that occurs, we get uh we get a notification about it. We have real-time notification, it comes to uh one of our lieutenants, and um as well as um as me in the group, and we see that that there's been an overdose at 123 First Street, and this this individual was involved, and these other parties were in were the on scene, right? So those other parties on scene are at risk, they're very at risk of having an overdose because they're they're there when someone else is overdose. So we focus not only on the person that's had the overdose, but everybody inside that house or that friends group, and we start providing services no matter what it could be. Um, and that's I think is the biggest thing is we're we're focusing on the at-risk individuals. Um, so we make an entry into a computer database, we have a trusted partnership with some nonprofits, we have memorandums of agreements in place along with funding, and we send them a notification and they get it, they get a notification that we've had an overdose at 123 First Street, and these are the parties involved. They pick up the phone and reach out and try to make contact, offer services. They don't get a phone call, they try it again, they try it again, they keep trying until they get someone, and then they also can go out to the house and and do a visit. Now, again, our opioid outreach specialists are civilian employees, but they work for the sheriff's office, right? So the first thing those that are in substance use are going to say is, Oh, there's a cop at the door. It's got to be a narc, right? We make sure people understand that's not the case. We're not there looking for paraphernalia, we're not there looking for charges. We're there to get you into services, right? Like that's our biggest thing. Now, what and then so things that are important, our narcotics division, they worked the investigation to determine who they're they try their best to find out who the dealers are and go after them. Um, you know, last year there was a very big bust in North Charleston, one of the hotels. Ever since that, we've seen a drop in overdoses in that area. So obviously they were killing people and they should go to jail for that. However, those that are that are having the issues and the substance use disorder, we're providing those services and getting them into treatment. There's a so once we reach out and get them in get some services, we continue to follow up. The system has a tracking system. So every few days, whatever we set it to, five days, six days, it continues, it alerts us that we need to do a follow-up. We just reach out, hey Susie, how you doing? Still in treatment, you need anything? So that's part of it. It is not an investigative tool, it's absolutely not allowed by any of our detectives. It's very strict access. And again, it's the biggest thing is tracking those that are experiencing substance use disorder and providing real-time follow-up for help.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

That is amazing. That is amazing. And so, you know, addiction and alcoholism, all those things, this is where this is a disease, you know. And so, you know, I've been sober for 21 years. I've gotten sober through Alcoholics Anonymous, and I work the steps. And my book tells me it's a disease, it's a progressive disease. That first time you drink, you know, that's not the end-all be-all that's going to destroy your life. It's that later in life, as we go, as and our mind gets kind of flooded. And now, with all these other drugs that are out there that are really heavy hitting, the fact that you guys are looking at it more like a disease than an infraction, it's amazing, brother. And that's why I'm I'm really excited for with this conversation. Uh, the yellow line program that you're doing. I want to kind of dive into that because that's something that could be implemented very easily in other police departments, correct?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Correct. And I just want to make two comments before I forget. One, I've noticed a lot of people are posting about their county needs this. We have met with the the Sheriff's Association in South Carolina. So all the sheriffs, we've got in front of them and talked. Also, we're presenting at the South Carolina Governor's Conference. Um, you know, our biggest thing is we want to get as many counties involved as possible. So, one thing that's nice about this Sims program, you may live in Boston, but travel to Charleston, have an overdose, and we've had this happen. We that notification, because they're part of the system, if they're part of it, can alert back to Boston. So, not only do we provide you initial services, Boston can follow up with you and make sure that you're getting the long-term services. So it crosses over county lines. So now that Dorchester County is involved, you know, Dorchester, Charleston, and Berkeley all touch. And you know, your neighbor may be in one county and the other neighbor's in another. Like it's just the way it works. Um, we're able to share this information across jurisdictional lines. And if anybody is good about hiding information, and I shouldn't say hiding, but not sharing information is going to be law enforcement, right? So we we've got to be more transparent and share it, and we can't just say it, we got to do it. And that's a big thing with our agency. We don't just say the words, we're putting the actions, and these numbers back that up. Now, the yellow line project, it's very new to us. We're just now developing it. Dr. Foncel from Charleston Center is really kicking this off and working with it. Um, and we're gonna learn was trial and error. And you know, just like with Sims, we got doors shut in our face, just like you know, those in substance use disorder. Um, they've had doors shut in their face. So did us as law enforcement. We had to fight to get this program and fight to get information sharing because no one wanted to share it. Um, but now they see the value of it. You know, one of the best things is I was at a uh memorial service last year, and a lady walked up to me and gave me a hug. We've been working together, she's with a nonprofit, and she's like, you know what? Last year an officer was tasing me and locking me up. This year I'm giving you a hug and you're helping me, and I've been in recovery. And that to me is what it was about, you know. And every time I see her, we run up to each other and and and and hug each other, and they're like, How do you know her? I'm like, Well, you know, she's in recovery, we're helping each other out. She's kind of my mentor of what we can and cannot. What are we doing right? What are we not doing right? You know, if if something we're doing's not working, she's willing to come forward and say, Hey, this is dumb, you need to fix it. So we listen, and then she's like, you know, you keep checking on me, even though you don't have to, just saying, Hey, how things, how things going? So I think that's the biggest thing is we have to understand we're all in this together. It doesn't matter if we have a badge and gun, right? We're in this together and we have to help each other. If you don't think law enforcement officers go through these exact same things, you're wrong. We do. You know, we have EAP programs in place to help those individuals that may be having an issue. Um, but you first have to acknowledge there's a problem, right? Like you said, it's a disease, we have to acknowledge it. And then we got to provide services. And what's not working, we have to change. You can't just keep doing the same thing that's not working. If your numbers are going up, you're not doing something right. Uh, and that's one thing I like about working at the sheriff's office. We cover the whole county. We can, it doesn't matter if you live in Charleston, Mount Pleasant, North Charleston. We're here and you're in Charleston County, and we're gonna provide you these services. Um, with the Yellow Line Project at the detention center, we're gonna focus on two parts. One, um, before you're incarcerated, we're gonna try to work on diversion. Now, something that we've done is that we're lucky, Charleston Center has a sobering center. So we have last week we took three individuals to the sobering center, no charges, just dropped them off, said, Hey, they're public intox, they need to sober up. There's nurses and staff there, they'll watch them. And it's really, really, you know, it was a record for them. We've never had three dropped off in a weekend. They were all, you know, it was a smooth process. It saves the deputies a lot of paperwork. And then we follow back up. Hey, is this person getting any help? Everything all right? Um, we started piloting a program in Mount Pleasant before we left. We started looking at those that were arrested for DUI and to kind of see kind of where that's at. And we noticed that a lot of the individuals that were having DUIs, their next step was to go to drugs, and they weren't sure what those drugs were going to be, but they were just gonna try something, right? So we caught those at-risk individuals before they went into the the drug use by catching them with alcohol. So, you know, that's a good program. Um, I see one of the questions is asking uh about how are we doing that with mental health? So we have what we call a community wellness group, community wellness unit. They cover mental health, substance use disorder. They're kind of commingling, unfortunately. Sometimes someone may have a substance use disorder and also be suffering from mental health. We're working with the Department of Mental Health to provide services. Um, we do a lot with Charleston Center, Favor Low Country in South Carolina, um, and Wake Up Carolina. We have really worked hard together and we're trusted partnerships. They have to trust us as much as we trust them because we're sharing some very intimate information about individuals. Um, but we do have memorandums of agreements in place, and there's a confidentiality notice. You know, this isn't to say so-and-so is down the street because they have a substance use disorder. The whole point of it is to provide those services.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

This is amazing, Chris. You know what the what I'm hearing here more than anything is the big difference between you and other people that I've talked to, because I've talked to quite a few people in the law enforcement about this, and it's your open-mindedness. Uh, the fact that you're seeing, hey, what we did forever doesn't really work. You have to actually have some sort of solution, and the solution that you're providing, I mean, I I love this yellow line idea, and I know I'm beating it up, probably, but the idea that you know you get a choice, you know. Okay, you're here for possession and you're here for public intox. You have a choice. Do you want to be arrested or do you want to go to treatment? And if you go to treatment, you do the program, you don't get those charges. This is amazing. This is amazing. That's the most open-minded, profound thing that I've heard in forever. This is so great. That's I'm that I'm excited. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Uh and again, it's not just us. That's us working with the prosecutors, that's us working with the detention center. You know, we all have to work together. And when we have these meetings, we're very fortunate. Scarlett Wilson is our solicitor. She's there. You know, she's at these meetings, she's given us feedback on what we can do. The public defender's office is there, some of our judges are there. Like we're working together as one big one big organization. And Charleston County has what they call the CJCC, the Criminal Justice Council. Our biggest program is trying to get people out of the detention center and make sure they stay out of the detention center. You know, we don't want to put people in the jail. We want to provide them with services and and see them later on in life being successful. You know, that's what it's all about. Um, and then coming back in as a mentor and as a peer support. You know, one of our biggest issues in the detention center is trying to get peer support is our policy was they had to be 10 years out of recovery or in recovery. That that's a tough time for some people. So we, you know, we we've got that to around five years, it's case by case, interviews with them and we contract with them to get them into the detention center to provide services. Um, one of the issues we ran into, you know, in our detention centers, not even the correction officers allowed to have cell phones. We had to get a special waiver from the jail administrator to be able to use laptops and cell phones for Zoom for a lot of the services that they needed. Like, you know, it's hard to schedule these. So we're able to really work together. Um, and they're expanding their team, you know. They the the re-entry specialist, the mental health clinician, and the opioid outreach specialist in the detention center is one team and they work together. All right. You know, I'm I'm dealing, I'm I'm here with Johnny, and Johnny's got mental health issues, and Johnny's also got a substance use issue.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Yes, he does.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah, they both work together, you know what I'm saying? Like all of them work together, and they're coming up with a plan to fix it and uh are to you know uh provide services, and that's really the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Um that's that's the biggest thing of it all is all of these different pieces of the legislature need to talk to one another, you know. The the right you guys, you guys are talking with the uh district attorneys, you guys are talking to the the judges, you guys are talking to, you know, and and when it comes to all this, I mean I hopefully everybody's seeing that, you know, this isn't just uh uh an incarcerate or don't incarcerate, this is people dying, you know. There's uh the the the heroin epidemic, this fentanyl epidemic, this is really just taking people's lives, and it's taking lives quickly. And um, you know, so I see where you're where your system, the the sim system is talking between states, how amazing is that? You know, uh how so how do you personally get to, you know, if you want if you hear about a program that you hear is working in another state, how do you go about actually getting that uh as a as something you can implement in Charleston County?

SPEAKER_02 20:47

You know what though, our governments are well, one thing unfortunate, I work for an elected official, so we have a different set of guidelines and it's a lot easier. So one of the things that we made easy for us is our community wellness unit. You know how in law enforcement in the military, you have sergeants and lieutenants, it goes all the way out the chain of command. The community wellness unit works directly for me. There's no red tape, there's no sending things through the chain and getting delayed. The community wellness lieutenant works directly for me. I brought him onto my team from he came from Mount Pleasant with me. He's best in the business. His background is he was a clinician, then he became a law enforcement officer. He has 10 years in both, and he's the perfect combination of what we need for Charleston County. So he he just gets it done, and that's the biggest thing is the red tape is what holds things up. Um, I saw a question about people having, you know, what do you do about people that have had multiple tries at sobriety and it, you know, they keep having relapses. That happens all the time. That Sims program and the follow up is what allows us to do it. Now, let's say we're used to seeing Chris on the street, right? And our deputies are familiar with him, they'll pick up the phone and call our lieutenant that's over community well and say, Hey, I just saw Chris on the street. He's not looking so good. I know we've had him in recovery before. Can you look and see where the last place was? Oh, he was at Charleston Center. Let me go get him admitted real quick and get him back into recovery. Let's see what we can do. So, those are the type of things. The biggest thing is you have to change your culture of the law enforcement agency and have buy-in. And there's no better feeling than driving to work and hearing your office, your deputies on the radio saying, Hey, I'm taking this person to Charleston Center instead of the jail. Let's see if they can meet me and get them into treatment. That means that tells you right there there's a culture change within the organization. And that's what you have to have. That's the biggest part of it.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

So I'm in a neighboring county. I'm right, like neighbors to chief. And I got sober 10 years ago, but it was me getting arrested for my 12th time. And I never got a drug charge, but I did have a lot. So when I was I was seen by my grandma's neighbor, who was the head of the public defender's office at this time, and I had never met him, but he was last resort. He came to visit me, put me in the little where the attorney meets the inmate room. And he goes, Listen, all your charges look alcohol or drug induced. You're facing 20 years in prison. Why don't you go try rehab? And no one had ever offered that to me before, like none. And I was obviously intoxicated. I've read the FOIA reports on everything, and they're like, I could smell the alcohol and Krista. And um, but no one had ever offered it. I never knew treatment was an option. And I was like, okay. And I I ended up taking that route and I got sober. I had to go hours away. But it's kind of like he was doing that before this was even a thing, like out of the kindness of his heart. And I had a loving, supportive family behind me, and not everybody has that. And he saw that it was like alcohol induced, and I had a problem. And he sat there and told me, and I took it. And then the place you guys work with, the Charleston Center, my husband's life was saved 11 months ago yesterday, there at the Charleston Center. So I there's so much hope, and it just it's really cool seeing it all come together, and we do have to work together. And if you don't know what you don't know, people don't know there's a solution out there. You gotta tell them. And like if someone told me maybe my fifth arrest, I might have went started my journey a little sooner, but God had a plan.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

So right, and like you and I connecting, you know, I just happened to see some things that that was not going so well in a different county. And I asked you some questions about it. We were able to connect, and and I was like, hey, what can I do to help? You know, let's talk to some of these sheriffs in this area and and try to figure that out. Um, you know, I don't know what county someone was from, but I noticed they posted that we need re-entry specialists. One thing just to point out before January 7th, we had one re-entry special specialist in Charleston County. We have funded and added a second full-time, and we're going to continue to grow the unit, but we've already doubled Charleston County's unit since January 7th. So, and again, it's all working together, having meetings and figuring out what are small wins that you can you could have. You know, I had a mom reach out to me, her son had a fatal overdose over in our county on a very bad street that we know is a problem. So we sent our teams over there to really do some enforcement and try to sit over there. And then one day I was driving back from a meeting over there, so I sent her a picture of the street sign. I said, Hey, I'm over here sitting with my blue lights on, no one's gonna be dealing dealing drugs over here right now. And she's like, You don't understand the impact that's had. Um, and then our our team and her and some of her friends have gone over. We passed out Narcan to every house, um, you know, just trying to cut, and we've seen a drop in overdoses over there. Um, and that's a big thing, but we we've got to stop this high level of fentanyl coming in. I mean, you know, fentanyl is in everything, everything. And unfortunately, you know, we're we're we still are seeing some of these fatal overdoses.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

And you know, and it's a it's an epidemic, and uh, it's something that you know that you guys are doing a great job on. Um, you know, I got I want to talk about a stigma, the stigma between addiction and law enforcement. You know, addicts are afraid of law enforcement, uh, alcoholics are afraid of law enforcement, you know. Um how how do we how do we soften that? I mean, addicts are still doing illegal things, you know, and uh and they don't want to get caught. And you know, they see blue lights behind them, they they they are in fear, you know. Uh, how do we transition the stigma from, you know, hey, uh, instead of you know being afraid, these are the people that can actually help.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, and I'll you know, that's tough. One of the first things we did is we don't use the word addict at the sheriff's office. Uh, we just don't. That's a big thing for us, even when even when I hear that word, it makes my makes me cringe. Um, but that was very early on. That's talking to someone in peer support says, Hey, you know what? We don't like that word. Why don't we try something different? And I was like, no problem. But again, that goes back to being open and understanding, and I think that's the biggest thing is with stigma. Um, one thing I do want to mention, every single one of our deputies uh carry narcan in their car or on their person, or switching over to carrying it on their person so they're not going back to the car. And then for every overdose, we have these kits. It's a pencil case, simple, right? You open it, it's got narcan. So we carry these and they're left at every overdose scene for follow-up. But the biggest thing is this give this bridges the gap between an overdose and follow-up. It could be 30 minutes, could be an hour, could be two hours. There's an arcan there until we can get a follow-up done. Um, so the biggest thing is flooding the area with that. But I think the more you see the direction, also every one of our new recruits goes to the Charleston Center for a tour. They also listen to Nancy Stedman Shipman from Wake Up Carolina story where she lost her son to an overdose who was a high schooler and um had an injury, and that's how it started through uh pain medication. So that's a touching story. And my first time I ever heard her story, I was like shocked. It was such a moving experience for me. And I realized there's more to this job than locking people up, right? It's more than writing a ticket to someone. We gotta we need to save lives. And once you, like I said earlier, when you see individuals that have been in crisis and going through their worst time, what they don't want to see is another officer at the hospital, right? Or another officer providing a follow-up. That's why we brought in peer support, someone that's in recovery, someone that's walked that walk, and that we can work with them together. We're not passing them off to peer support, we're hand in hand taking a step back and letting peer support handle it and providing services as needed. But I'm telling you, peer support has been the biggest, biggest change for us and bridging that gap.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Now, with with what you're doing, this has to actually, I mean, we're you're you're helping decrease the number of overdoses 40. Amazing, amazing. How about the amount of other crime you're able to focus on because you're not focused so much on the addiction? You know, you get call, I'm sure you get calls to the same houses, the same locations over and over again where you're wasting time. And time is the most valuable thing where your officers could be focused on bigger problems. How much time is actually being solved as being saved, and how much much other crime, like our felonies down, are this and that down? Just if you could talk a little bit about that, it's curbing the crime, probably for sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, and we don't have our first year's worth of numbers at the sheriff's office for crime, so I can't really talk about that. Uh statistically, it seems like it's down. I'll be able to give you more of a definite answer once our numbers are in at the end of the year. So I don't want to misquote that, but I will say, you know, when you're someone asked earlier about violent crimes, you know, what are we doing for violent charges? We we are working with the judges to look at that. When it's a violent crime, it's it's different. We're held by certain standards and there's not really much we can do, but we are looking to for that. But you know, so one thing we've seen is we'll see somebody that's getting a public intox charge, but they've also got an assault charge. Well, unfortunately, because of that salts attack to it, we're kind of stuck and you have to go to jail. However, when you get into the detention center, you're flagged with our new screening tools that you have a substance use disorder, and we start providing services immediately. So just because you have a charge does not mean you're not going to get those services. Um, I went to a presentation a couple of years ago and the agency had an amazing program, which is like we said earlier, you know, you go to these conferences, you hear what other agencies are doing, you bring it back to your agency and you implement it, right? But the one thing that I didn't like is they said, but if you have a felony charge or a warrant, we don't provide you any services. I'm like, well, you're missing your most important population. Like, you got to think outside the box of this. Hold that warrant. If it's a shoplifter warrant, you could hold it, right? If it's a murder warrant, probably not. So look at neutrality of circumstances and put the individual above charges. You know, that's what's important. Uh, I I know based on statute. I love that. Yeah, you know, based on statute, some things were held to, but not everything, you know, a public intox really. Take them to the silvering center, let's get them some help. And you're no longer responding to this guy having us a public intox charge every single night. You've got him, and there that's where you're talking about saving resources. You're you're not constantly responding to the same house for an overdose, their same house for you know, EMS going to the same house for an overdose. It's you know, it's it's a big thing, and it's it's sad to see. I know it's very hard. It's a it's a sickness, it's an illness, a disease. It's very hard to break that. But I think if we continue this same cycle of providing service, providing services, eventually they're gonna take a bite at that and then yeah, and get them into long-term recovery. And that's our biggest seed, right? Right. You just have to keep, you know. Um, Nancy Shipman always says from Wake Up Carolina, you're throwing bobbers out, and eventually somebody's gonna take a bite at it, and then we've got them in the services they need. Um, and you know, just when there's a fatal overdose, which we hate to go to, if we have a fatal overdose, that doesn't mean there's not other individuals that need help and and services in that house. We provide that to the whole family, and that you know, grief groups that's another part, you know, that could lead down a road of alcohol and then maybe drug dependency or mental health issues. So you have to work with all of it. And I noticed one of the questions was is how do you implement this in an age in an area when there's stigma and law enforcement won't listen. Well, you know what? It starts with the leadership. You have to focus and meet with the leadership of the organization. If it's not from the top down, it's not gonna work. And that's why I work for Charleston County Sheriff's Office. Our sheriff proved that before he took office when he was the chief of police, that he believes in recovery, he believes in providing services, he believes in transparency, and that's why I left the job after 17 years to work for him, because I knew we were gonna make a difference in Charleston County, and that's the biggest part of it. We're leaving the we're leaving this community better than the way we found, and that's why I work here, and and this is why we do what we do.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

So, as far as bringing this to the leadership, I mean, you know, it's it's it's hard to get into the leadership. What's the best way of going about that? Would it be going to your you know, local community outreach meeting? Is it going to is it sending a letter to legislation? Is it what is what would be the best way of going about trying to actually bring this to your community?

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Have a sit down one-on-one with the leadership. And I'll tell you, I it's a little different. When when a chief when a chief deputy reaches out to another agency and they want to have a meeting, usually it happens, right? We struggle sometimes with other law enforcement agencies having meetings to discuss this. They just don't want to be at the table. And if we're struggling with that, I know the public's gonna struggle, right? You got to be open-minded, you got to focus and under you have to you have to get ahead of that leadership and show them the impact. They need to see it. Um, and that's a big thing for us. You know, I never thought in my career I'd be sitting in this seat having this conversation, right? But I went to a rec, I went to a meeting one time. I covered it as a public information officer. The the chief at the time wanted me to cover it for social media, and I'm sitting there videoing this thing, and I'm like, oh, I'm just ready to go. It's Saturday. I wish I was off. And I hear this lady tell a story about how her son died from an overdose. And I'm after it's all said and done, I'm driving home. I'm like, what am I doing? I'm upset that I'm here on a Saturday, and this lady lost her son. Like, I got to put things in perspective. What can I do to prevent someone else from having the same feeling that's lost someone? So let's let's focus on this. And that's really what kind of helped change my mindset on what it is. So I think these very impactful stories and these very impactful meetings, you just have to go in there and show them. You know, we we we've approached it with data. I mean, who wouldn't want to have 40% reduction overdoses in their community, right? Um, I've been to some of these conferences and met with some of the chiefs in Charleston, in not Charleston, but in South Carolina, and we've had good conversation and they're looking at the Sims program. Um, it's really just sharing information, being transparent and focusing on it as a disease and not looking down upon it, you know. Um, it could affect all of us at any time. You just never know. And I think that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

I personally started when I would see any public official or police or anything like they talk about recovery or addiction, I would send an email or a call. And then I was sitting down next to the chief of police of my area, then he's bringing me to town hall meetings, and then I'm like, oh, I get a public comment anywhere I go. So I would sign up and I would just give my three minutes. And they some listen, some don't, but a lot of the times they want to commend you and they want to tell you, wow, what you're doing is great. And like we kind of know us on the other side, we kind of know a lot too. And they want to know, you guys want to know, and we gotta bridge that gap.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yep, and it's just working together. That's that's the biggest thing is working together as one and trying to fix some of the issues that are going on in the community. Um, and and open door, listen, just have a round, you know. I've had some tough conversations in the beginning at tables and had to hear some things that we weren't doing correctly, but we fixed it. And when you fixed it immediately and you see that change, then you get buy-in from because they believe you're listening. That's the biggest thing is just listen. When you go to these meetings, you don't have to be at the head of the table and talk about it all. Listen to what the public has to say, make notes and start making changes. You'll get buy-in, you build trust and transparency, and that's the biggest thing. You gotta have trust of your community.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

You know, we I talk a lot about the gift of desperation, right? The gift of desperation is what will open people's minds when uh an alcoholic or someone addicted to drugs, because you don't like the word addict, I won't use it anymore. Uh, when someone's addicted, they they get to the lowest possible low that opens their mind to the possibility of changing and finding recovery. The same goes with the government. Um, you see enough overdoses, you see enough crime, you see enough things that aren't and you and the things that you're doing aren't working, the government can find the gift of desperation. And to find that another program is is getting a 40% decrease in overdoses, that's gotta take some sort of uh people gotta open their eyes and they gotta say, okay, these guys are doing it differently. How can we do this here? And I think when you get when you get those numbers, as much as data, you know, data means things, and if you see a decrease in felonies, if you see a decrease in in violent crimes, which I'm betting that your numbers are gonna come back at the end of the year lower because you have more manpower to focus on other things than just overdoses and the petty crimes that come with addiction. Um, so I think I think the biggest thing is uh your transparency with your data, that's gonna be the the thing that can really change because the gift of desperation is everywhere. And if if it you know, having somebody's child die, and I can help with that, you know, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Yeah, and one thing I will tell you that we are seeing, talking about numbers that I could attest to now is we are seeing our jail population numbers slowly dropping, and that's a big thing for us. We monitor that every single day, and we are starting to see our overall average jail population drop considerably. Um, you know, we were averaging 1500, now we're averaging 12 to 1300. That's a big drop. Enormous, that's huge, right? And I can't say this is all based on overdose response. I cannot say all that, but I think it's a totality of circumstances of everything being put together to provide the best services for Charleston County. Um, and I think I think we're gonna continue to see that drop. And um, you know, Charleston County, our biggest thing is when we implement this, we want to get all of Charleston County agencies on board. We have College of Charleston on board, you know. They're hey, we have overdoses, help us. We've got college kids, so that's worked out. We've got medical university of South Carolina public safeties on board. Um, the Isle of Palms and Sullivan's Island beaches are on board. The biggest thing is these law enforcement officials have to say there's a problem in our area, let's fix it. You know, acknowledge you have a problem and start working to fix it and be open to kind of where we were too, right? Yeah, it's the same, yeah. You know, same thing. Like, like you said, we want to provide as many services as possible as well and and help reduce these numbers. Long-term recovery is the key.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

See, now nobody wants to call their baby ugly, nobody wants to say it because they say what they want to say, oh, our community's perfect, we're good here, everything's fine. Small town America, we're good. And nobody wants to admit that there's even a problem, you know. You know, you see all of these uh I'm from Indiana, and you know, we have a lot of farm communities just south of me, and these communities where all of a sudden there's 12 overdoses in the course of a weekend because they're all on drugs and they got a bad package, and there we go, and now and oh, this was a one-time thing, and we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing. No, this is the call to change.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

And I've seen I've seen the care wake up Carolinas posts about bad bachelor, or like they'll do like big posts, and I'll share and be like, why can't my why can't my county do that? And then I've seen the viral posts of your the Narcan dispensers, and why and I was the one commenting it's the opioid settlement fund. Is it not? We're not just giving it away, it's already paid for.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

And um, it's funny you say that. So we put out so those those um spike alerts, they come from the sheriff's office. That's us sharing information from the coroner's office, from the sheriff's office to Wake Up Carolina and our nonprofits to put out an alert, let the public know there's a bad batch, we've got a couple fatalities, let's try to get ahead of this. Um, and then the other parts of that is um we're working together on trying to we put out this information in real time. You can't get these alerts on Friday night, not put it out until Monday. It's too late. We've lost who knows how many people, right? So the biggest thing is putting that information out, being transparent quickly and efficiently.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

And I know our county, because I've questioned where's the opioid settlement fund money going. And I know they got something at the coroner's office for like a faster toxology report for these reasons.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Which so Charlton County has that program, that uh device, and it's amazing. Yeah, um, it gives us quickly to be able to put that out. All right, this is what's going on. Let's try to figure out what it is.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

So let's talk about that for a second. The opioids opioid settlement fund. Every state in America got money from the opioid settlement fund, and then the state has dispersed it to every city in America, so there is lots of money to do something. Um, how much of that opioid settlement fund have you dispersed for new programs?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Every every dollar we have received is for programs within Charleston County. So Charleston County gets a large chunk of money, and then we come up with a plan on how we're going to implement it. We have reporting mechanisms in place that we have to report. Um, it's very well regulated. And um, our biggest thing, one was getting our can out to the public. This, the one thing that we're using for this year is we're adding that opioid uh specialist to patrol. So they will be responding to these calls and providing services in real time. Um, so all of those are type of things that we're doing as quickly as possible to provide services.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

And as far as actual recovery, I mean, you're you're you're I'm assuming you're seeing people that you're dropping off at treatment centers where they're actually getting into recovery and you actually follow up on that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Yes, our team does, yes, 100%. Um the problem is when you stop following up, people stop thinking you care. And then, you know, that that's the biggest thing. Follow up, a phone call, a text message. Uh, you know, sometimes we get blocked, that's fine. We change our number and send another message. Like, you know, you have to continue that approach to providing services. Um and you know, the biggest thing I think that gives us validity to our program is we separate the follow-up and community wellness from the enforcement. They don't even share now. The enforcement side will share information with us. We do not share information back, and it's a mutual understanding. Um, because I don't care if you have a bag of drugs on your table when we get there, right? I need to get this individual into treatment. Y'all figure out what's going on with this. We're not making a charge anyway. Go after the dealer. We're gonna focus on getting this individual into help and work through that. And that's I think is the biggest thing because there's no fear of charges. And once that starts getting outwards, hey, you know what? I call because you Johnny just had an overdose at my house. I didn't get locked up. No one, the police weren't mad with me. They weren't rude. All right. You know what? Let me see. Let me talk to this person. Let me talk to that person. Let me provide some services. But if we were going to these follow-ups and locking people up, no one's going to call us, right? Like no one's going to believe us. No one's going to trust us. And we just started at this agency in January. So we had to rebuild the trust in the community of focusing on what is needed. Let's see. So the re-entry specialist with the sheriff's office, they are civilian and they follow up on it. There is a timeline structure built into Sims. I'd say that was one of the questions. That timeline alerts us when those follow-ups need to be done so we don't miss anybody. And then we we log in and review them and see where everything's at. We can see the notes. But again, that's that's trust because we're sharing that information with a nonprofit that we have a memorandum of agreement with, so we could share that information in real time.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

That's amazing. That really is. I'm telling you, this has been really amazing. You know, today we've been talking with Chief Christopher Rosier from Charleston County, and your transparency has been awesome. I wish I wish there were so many more police officers like you in this country. And you know what? I bet you there are. And I bet you there's a lot of people that are fed up with the numbers that you've seen, and they're they're fed up with the crime, they're fed up with everything, you know, and you are actually here making a difference. I hope everybody on today's everybody that's been here, everybody that sees this video, you can share it with your local law enforcement because because because you know, Chief Roger here is making a difference, making a difference.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

So it's inevitable that almost everyone's going to be affected by this. Like I'm sure, Chief, you've had friends pass away from addiction or have known somebody that has, and then let's not even mention the trauma that you guys go through, the the post-traumatic stress that you guys go through on the job. I mean, it's all it all stems from somewhere, and you never know what somebody's going through. And education right here is key. Education's winning, like just knowing what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

So, one thing I wanted to bring to that, we've made it mandatory at the sheriff's office every year, every deputy, every civilian goes through a one-hour mental health check. And what that is, it's a clinician. It's we partner with Medical University of South Carolina. It's a one-hour mental health check to make sure our officers are in good standing. And that, you know, because we do see a lot, you know, we deal with a lot of infant deaths, trial. Um, we deal with traffic fatalities, we're dealing with overdoses. It's really a good way for us to kind of make sure that they're okay. Um, and that's we have a great EAP program, probably one of the best I've ever seen. That's a very strong program here um that we're continuing. But again, you know, I and I do know people. Uh, I know a lady, I know a lady in a county in South Carolina that can make a real difference in her community and they keep ignoring it. And her daughter died from an overdose. And I don't know what other impact you could have. Like, I don't know what else we can do to make an individuals in leadership positions see that it's a need. I just don't understand sometimes. You know, we get we get doors shut in our face sometimes. I got plenty, and I just keep right on knocking. Like, I'm here, I'm not leaving. Like, help me out here. Like, what you know, Dorchester County. So we were fighting hard with another county close to us to get Sims, and they they just weren't pulling, they weren't doing it. Um, and we were getting frustrated. And then Dorchester County came out of nowhere and got the program and said, Hey, will you help us? I was like, Heck yeah, we'll help you. We can share information, we can provide services because Charleston and Dorchester are so like again, you can live across the street and be in one county or the other. Um, it really has helped us kind of connect those dots on those that are in need, and every so the Charleston County has the license for sims, every agency gets to use it for free, and we don't even charge them because we're using settlement funds to pay for it, and it's really inexpensive. Not to mention, if you save one life, it's paid, it's worth every penny, right? So that's that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

And they go and save other people's lives because the whole point of recovery is you can't keep it unless you give it away. So we're out here trying to help. It's a trickle effect, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

One thing that I did learn very early on is when you're in recovery, you're always in recovery. That was not something that really kind of dawned on me until I talked to peer support. Yeah, um, and you know, you it's so crazy how you can connect these dots between peer support and law enforcement just by having a coffee or lunch and just sitting down and talking things out, and like, you know, that's a really good idea. Why don't we do that? We're at a conference and we're like, hey, does our detention deputies carry Narcan on their body? I know we have stations throughout the detention center, and we're like, I don't know. So we made a phone call, like, no, so we use settlement funds, and now every deputy will carry narcane on their person. You know, that that few minutes of running to a station and coming back, you don't have to worry about it anymore. It's on your belt. And those first two doses may save a life. And you know, it's just small things that you pick up on that oh, I didn't know I did that. Maybe this is a good idea, you know. Uh, and we Ori County, South Carolina has an amazing program in their detention center, and I know their director, so we sent our staff there to learn how they handled overdose response because they they had peer support in the g in the detention center before we did, and we kind of worked through it, they helped us navigate it. Then they sent their staff is going to come here to learn how we're doing with mental health, so it's just working together, you know. Put your ego aside, we're all law enforcement working together, you know. At the end of the day, I go home and take this badge and gun off. I'm a citizen, and we just have to care about people.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

So in closing, in closing, if you were talking to another chief of police in another county and another area that doesn't have that, they don't know what they're gonna do with the opiate settlement fund, they don't know uh how to fix any of the problems. If you're talking to another chief, chief to chief, what is it you say to them to help them open up their mind a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Listen to your community, set up a meeting, set up a meeting with your nonprofits, set up a meeting with your peer support individuals. Don't sit at the head of the table and don't talk, just listen and see what they have to say, make a list and then start checking some stuff off the list. I've I've been sitting here making lists the whole time. We're on a you know, we're on this call, but getting ideas and looking at something like that. I love it. I'm looking at the chat stuff to make sure I don't miss any of these questions. But the biggest thing is listening, listen to your community. You're you're in that position to serve and protect your community. What are you doing to make tomorrow better than today? And that's the biggest thing. Um, acknowledge that there's an issue in your community. If you're not tracking your numbers, then how do you know this program will allow you to track? Um, and again, disclaimer, I don't work anything for Sims that you know, I just believe in it, I believe in the program. Um, I think that's the biggest thing is listen, listen to your community and see what the problem is. Come up with a plan and don't be scared to make a change. If what you're doing is not right and it's not working, admit it and change it. You can't do any worse than what you're doing now, and that's the biggest, you know. We took a lot of risk when we kept making these changes, you know. Putting a peer support individual into a detention center, you lose a little sleep over that. Scary, yeah, really is. But to see the positive impacts and closely monitor it, it's worth every bit of it. It really is worth every bit of it. I went to I went over to detention center a couple weeks ago for a tour, um, just to catch up on something. And I ran into the peer support lady and she came running up to me, give me a hug, and they're all like, You know her. And she's like, A couple years ago, I was behind these bars. Now I walk in these halls as a you know, a free woman and helping these people that need help. And you know, you know, it was worth that. You couldn't have done anything. I could have won the lottery, it wasn't worth what happened that that minute with her, you know. Yeah, it was a big, big deal for me to see how that small gesture of getting them in there has made a difference. Yeah, and you know, if we save one life, it's worth every bit of it. But amen. You know, and sorry to go off on a tangent on that, but again, now we love this.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Very passionate our language, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

It's passionate.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

So if someone need wanted to get a hold of you and wanted to actually talk to you about this, if somebody, you know, because I I'm really hoping that people take this video and they go to their uh, you know, leadership, they go to their elected officials and say, Hey, this guy's doing it. How would they get a hold of you? What's the best way? Is it uh email?

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Yeah, send me an email and we can uh set something up. I could do Zoom. I've done Zoom with other agencies before and kind of talked out some issues um that they were having and worked through it. Our biggest thing is I'm available even after hours. If we need to do a phone call, Zoom, whatever, to get that worked out, we're here to help, you know. And again, we don't always get it right, we don't always do it right the first time, but we listen and we pivot and and we make it happen. Um, and that's our biggest thing. And we put the best people in place. But yeah, um, do you need me to give you the email now? Do you already have it?

SPEAKER_01 53:00

You want to put it out or uh I think uh Meg Megan will put it out in the comments. Uh but I mean we are planning an event in January um that we're gonna have speakers at and it's gonna be fun and we're gonna talk uh about you know recovery and everything. And I'm really hoping that you're gonna be there. We're gonna be in here in Charleston. So uh uh hopefully uh you'll be able to come and actually share. And you know, it'll be January, so hopefully you'll have some new numbers, and you know, the we just gotta keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing. If you go and you try to talk to the local chief and they don't have time, keep pushing, keep pushing because we can all, if we stand together, we can make a change. You're making a change, and we can take what you're using and and show it to other people because I'm telling you, I I love it and I'm excited. I'm meeting with my um my town this week, and I'm gonna I'm excited, I'm gonna tell them about your programs.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

And this helps um even with child protective services, brings families back together, lowers the emergency room rate, lowers the incarceration rate, stops crimes, like you name it. It's literally the trickle effect. And I'm very grateful, Chief, that you listened to my Facebook messages and responded back. And I'm grateful for this connection.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

So yeah, you know, you posting about a problem in your area is what caught my attention. And I, you know, for a sheriff or chief to say they don't have time to meet with you, I'm sorry, that just doesn't cut it. That's not true. You know, you can make time for what's important. And you know, I made time for today, it's not a problem, it's it's important, and it's overall making your your quality of life better for your citizens, and that's you know, that's what's important. One thing about Sims I wanted to share because we always get this question what about HIPAA, right? So we law enforcement's making the entries, so it's out of public information, freedom of information records, it's not coming from medical, so we don't have to worry about that. That does put some struggles with the hospitals, you know. People some we don't respond to all overdoses, some people go straight to the hospital, so we don't get that data all the time, but we're working on trying to figure that out what that looks like and EMS as well. We're working together with them um on what that looks like. So just just know that we we've thought all of those avenues because you know that question is going to come up, no one's gonna question us.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today, and this has been tremendous. I really thank you all for watching. Uh, and you know, bring this to your to your local government and let's see if we can all make a change. Chief, thank you so much for for everything you're doing, for recognizing this as a disease and for seeing it as in a different set of eyes, brother. I love you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Thank you so much. Let me know, and um, as as the emails come in, I'll make sure I respond back to them. And anything we could do to help anybody in the community, even if you're not a Charleston County resident, we'll be glad to bounce an idea off of us. Who knows? I may be able to pick up an idea from someone else and see that something we could change in our system, but we're willing to do whatever.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Yeah, we're gonna have to come over to Bu Ferret County. Okay, I'll set it up. I'll set it up.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and we'll see you all again next week. And uh and Chief, we're probably gonna have you on here again. So uh, so keep let me know when thank you. All right, thanks for the