Healing After Trauma & Addiction | Asa Wilson

In this episode of Never Alone Live, Johnny Hayes and Krista “Sober Barbie” Flanders sit down with Asa Lowcountry for one of the most raw and powerful conversations yet. Asa opens up about addiction, trauma, incarceration, human trafficking, losing her daughter, recovery, spirituality, and the life-changing journey that led her into advocacy and recovery leadership.

Now serving as Executive Director at FAVOR Lowcountry and working extensively with Oxford House sober living communities, Asa shares how recovery, connection, peer support, and purpose helped completely transform her life. The conversation also dives into sober living, recovery resources, the fentanyl crisis, criminal justice reform, and helping people rebuild their lives after addiction.

Follow Never Alone Recovery:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/never_alone_recovery/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NeverAloneRecovery/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@neveralone_recovery
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@youareneveralonerecovery

#recovery #addictionrecovery #mentalhealth #sobriety #healing #podcast #recoverypodcast #humantrafficking #fentanyl #oxfordhouse #mentalhealthawareness #motivation #hope #sobertok #selfimprovement

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Okay, welcome, welcome, welcome everyone to uh Never Alone Live. And uh I'm Johnny and I'm joined uh of course by Krista Sober Barbie, and today we have a very special guest. Asa. Asa, you are uh you got a lot of titles, you got a lot of jobs. You are the executive director at Favor Low Country and for the Oxford House. Oxford House is sober living, correct? Correct. And you are the training and education coordinator for the state of South Carolina as well as outreach and all sorts of stuff. Asa, this is uh this is tremendous. Let's uh let's get into it. Tell us uh tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Oh hi everybody, I'm Asa. I'm a woman in long-term recovery since June 21st, 2018. And as Johnny said, uh, you know, lots of hats over here. Um little bit about me though, I'm from Monks Corner, South Carolina, which is a little rural town in Berkeley County. Um, and uh, you know, grew up in a in a household with uh my parents and in active use and um was around some really uh chaotic and and and uh not so healthy environments growing up. And uh what I learned as a child and and uh as I've gotten older is that I'm an empath. And what that means is like I feel other people's energies and emotions. And so what I discovered is being in the energy uh and the emotions that my parents were going through and the people coming in and out of the house, I was so full of fear at such a young age, and you know, uh started drinking at the age of 10 and marijuana at the angel of 11. And so, and that that kind of just uh you know spiraled and as I say graduated to uh more illicit substances as I got older. Um, so yeah, um I I uh yeah, that happened very fast. My senior year high school, I ended up getting pregnant with my daughter, and um, by the time I I was in you know my senior year, I not only was you know cutting school, I was engaging in a lot of criminal activity, um, I was uh being extremely promiscuous, and that led to me not knowing who my child's father was. Um and so I had that guilt and shame surrounding that because in society, of course, that wasn't accepted. Not only that, but you know, going through um and being active use with substances, um, I I could not get my stuff together. Um, and and I wasn't able to be a present mom to my child. And I got, you know, I really got caught up in in this uh gang activity and um uh engaged in in lots of criminal stuff and robbing people, putting people in trunks, running in people's houses, zip ties, you name it, you know, selling drugs. Um, and uh that led me down a long criminal path, you know. I think I've been arrested over 60 times. I have been probably in every county jail here, uh North Carolina, Georgia, uh Alabama, Florida, Virginia, um, and because of you know the lifestyle that I lived, I you know, jumped, you know, state to state to try to run away from from my use when in all actuality I was like running for myself trying to find relief, which never happened, um, wildly enough. Uh I would have some period periods of of of abstinence and and trying to get my stuff together and holding out on a job here and there, um, you know, trying to be a mother to my child, but ultimately um I wasn't able to do that because the drugs and alcohol just took over my life. Um, I was extremely powerless. Um, and and you know, I you couldn't tell me that then though, because then I had my shit together because I was living in a hotel and I was driving around a stolen car, you know. So to me, my perception was so skewed and I was so delusional that I allowed myself to just continue on that vicious cycle for so many years. Um, when my daughter turned 11, she was uh molested by my dad. And um uh I had gotten her back for a period of time, and um, I lost my daughter and my father in the same day, and and uh they had put me on like a uh safety plan to get her back, and I couldn't even do the safety plan to get my child back. Um, thank goodness I had a close friend of the family take take custody of her and and give her this fulfilling life that I wasn't able to provide. But that is just an example of how much the alcohol and drugs had a hold of me. Like I honestly did not care about being a mom. I didn't care about being a sister, a child, you know, a good friend, you know, uh let alone hold down a relationship because uh of the you know manipulation, the dishonesty, the you know, using of people, you know, all of the things to just all I cared about was myself and getting the next drug or alcohol inside of my body. And and I literally had that tunnel vision for only that. Um, and I didn't know how to get out of it. Like I had never ever seen or hurt anybody. I didn't hang out with people in recovery, right? Like I hung around the people that had what I wanted, right? Or um that I could get something out of that I needed. And um, you know, in that in doing that, uh the the the individuals that, you know, my acquaintances that I thought were my friends then, um, were not really good people, you know. Um, and so that went on for for quite some time. And um I ended up connecting with a woman that um was uh I I was introduced to and she was a madam. And um she showed me this life where I could, you know, um do demoralizing things and get money for it. And um she introduced me to another group of guys, and I got caught up in a trafficking ring for probably four years, uh, and I was moved around all over the state. Myrtle Beach was a really, really uh prime place for that. And also here in the low country, like people don't realize this, but you know, Charleston is so riddled with human trafficking, it's unreal. And, you know, we I I was groomed and programmed to believe that these guys loved me, they were taking care of me, um, when all the while they were using me and um, you know, uh put putting me out there in really dangerous situations. Um, I was robbed a couple of times, I was raped multiple times, and and it and I I never thought I was ever going to be able to get out of that. Um, I would get arrested and they would bond me out, you know, um, because they loved me or they were taking care of me, right? And I always fell back into that same thing. Um, you know, when when my daughter was 17, she called me and I was in a hotel on Ashley Phosphate here in North Charleston, and and she wanted to connect back with me. And she had she had just turned 17. She was uh gonna run away from her godmother, and and she wanted to come be with me. And I I felt so like, oh my gosh, I was so happy. And she loved me so unconditionally that I could not do any harm in her eyes. And I remember her coming to that hotel, and I was, I was um, you know, I was I'm an intravenous, well, recovering intravenous user, and I was injecting heroin and methamphetamines right in front of her, and and I thought that was okay, you know. Um, I also had her, you know, wrapped up in the trafficking ring. And I don't think she ever got trafficked, but she was exposed to a lot of things that she should not have been exposed to. And I'd never seen it as a negative thing or a bad thing. Again, you know, I was programmed to believe that this was okay, right? Um, and it's just crazy how I'm sitting here right now, even thinking about that, just thinking about the mental space, the emotional space that I was in, where I just did not care, you know. Um, oh well, I all I cared about was drugs, you know. Um, so she was with me for about six months, and I ended up letting her start smoke weed, and she was smoking some methamphetamines, and like I was I was making that okay for her. And uh she ended up starting dating one of my acquaintances um that was my age, and I tried to put my foot down and be a mother to her all of a sudden and say, you can't be with him. He doesn't have a job. He's da-da-da-da-da. Like, I'm now trying to be this mother figure. And of course, she she didn't respect me in that in that manner. And she ended up running away with him, and I couldn't find her for like two weeks. And um, at the, you know, we were moving around hotel to hotel in here in in Charleston, and uh, I remember getting a call um, you know, uh May 18th of 2016 saying I needed to go to the Trident hospital that my daughter had been in a car accident. Um, and so, you know, in in for me, like I was woke up, I was dope sick, I was like, you know, sweating profusively, I was, you know, diarrhea, vomiting. And the first thing I thought of was going to get a bag before I made it to the hospital to go be with her. And and again, that's just another example of I could not stop. Like, I could not stop. It didn't matter what happened in my life, I could not stop. And um, I went on about a three-hour adventure. I never ended up copping, uh, got to the hospital, was met with the chaplain saying she wasn't gonna make it. And um in those moments, you know, I was in like a lot of denial, and I I just I I didn't want to believe him. And they took me back to the room with her, and you know, three weeks prior, we got matching tattoos on our ankles of the eternity sign, infinity sign with a heart on it. And the only way that I could even verify that it was her was by looking at her ankle. And um, you know, by that time, you know, like I had already burned all the bridges. I didn't have family members to call, I didn't have a support system, right? Like I had some dope boys, I had these guys that you know you know, it just all the people that I surrounded myself were in that world. And um I was I was sitting there alone with her, and my conscience was clear from chemicals, right? Like I had this, I was present, I was ever present, and I and I got to sit with her um her last couple hours of her life. And um I remember when um she took her last breath, and I I I I felt her energy leave her body, and there's this energy, and I can't even explain it. Um, something just you know, I could almost see it and feel it. And and in those moments, I realized that there was something more to this life than the what I was living. And whatever happened in front of me, and maybe not death, but that spiritual experience itself, I wanted to know more, right? And so from that day forward, I just started seeking. And it's crazy that seeking just something more to this life. Like, what am I supposed to do? Seeking purpose, seeking knowledge, seeking spirituality. And, you know, in that moment that was so dark and desolate, like it has brought so much light to my life today that you know it's just profound how those negative traumatic experiences can take you somewhere that um you can't even fathom, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Um, I guess I guess gotta jump in and thank you so much for your transparency and for your honesty and vulnerability here. This is, I mean, this is these are hard things to talk about. I mean, it's this is uh this is your your your truth. This was your existence. And you know, um, you know, our our job now is spreading hope and uh and look at Krista in Krista's job is technical difficulties today. Uh but uh uh you know, spreading spreading experience, strength, and hope, which you which you do so well. And uh I'm gonna jump over because there's some comments our your friend Katie Graham, who uh who is actually the person who I don't know if she introduced us, she introduced us to Favor Low Country, and then uh and then we were introduced to you, but she's such a big fan of yours, and you've inspired her. And I know anybody who's watching this, who's going to watch this, is going to be uh inspired as well. Because, you know, we we grow up in in a what we consider normal, and that kind of creates our version of normal. And hindsight being 2020, it was it was the furthest thing from normal, but at the time, at the time, it was it was you know okay, and that's where that that cunning, baffling, powerful comes in is when it takes over my brain and makes going to jail normal. Normal people don't go to jail. Normal people don't go to jail, you know. Uh, but we allow it to become the normal. Um, let me. I know you're yeah, I want to I want to hear what you know initially got you, you know, sober and stuff like that. But I wanna I want to break this down for a second. We can go on to this topic of of of creation of normal and then how we get to redefine it.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Hmm. Yeah, I think you I think you said it perfectly. You know, it's it's it's wild that society and culture and this normal, right? This normal, and I think that's a cycle in a washing machine, right? Because what is that? Um, my normal then is definitely not my normal now, and nor do I see that as normal, right? Like I I don't even know where the hell I got that from back then, you know, and and I think a lot of that is is is programmed by society and conditioning, right? As growing up, like we were supposed to take care of our parents, and and there's a whole nother story in with my parents and I, like I could go on for for days, and and you know, we're supposed to take care of our mother and father, you know, uh, in the Ten Commandments, even like it's really wild. Um, not that I follow organized religion because I don't, but um, you know, it's just it's just really uh profound how the normal then and what I perceived then is definitely not today, and and and probably some people would not see my life today as normal either because it's not theirs. Everybody's definition is different, and that's okay, right? I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

It is absolutely and uh you know, but the the fact that I know for myself, and I can only speak for myself, but you know, I didn't have a job, I'm living in my mom's basement, I got a baby on the way, and uh no car and no means of of supporting myself, let alone a baby, and and I'll waking up in jail every now and then. And I if anybody would have asked me, I was doing fantastic. And you know, looking back at that now, and it's like, what I was delusional, and that's uh I mean, I think normies don't understand that how the drugs and how the alcohol forms us into this delusional, you know, person that we're we think that this version of ourself is great.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Yeah, absolutely. And uh, you know, I often uh find myself at these tables with these individuals with you know uh law enforcement and public officials and legislation and all of this, and having my lived experience at the table, I feel like it's profound and it's definitely helpful for them because they don't understand it. And they don't understand that, you know, when when when there was fentanyl that first got you know introduced on the streets, like any anybody that was a heroin addict, right? If someone passed away or died or overdosed from that bag or that batch, we all flocked to that, and they couldn't fathom, you know, why we would do that. Well, because you're not one of us, you have no clue what we go through, right? That that's normal for us, you know. Uh, and yeah, I I think um it's wild um uh when you're trying to explain some of these things to people that just don't understand, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

You know, we had uh so at Freedom Fest, uh, you know, which was down in Charleston, and it was so awesome. Chris Rosier, who you know is who's the uh the chief deputy in uh Charleston County, he uh he came and he spoke, and uh afterwards, you know, because he's a normie, you know, he just sat and listened to all these stories and all these people, and he actually told us, you know, he said, uh he says, You you you changed my life with all this. And because normies don't see it, they don't understand the uh the the it's it's learned behavior that we learn, and it's uh the learned behavior into the progression of of the disease. And you know, the disease, it's more than just the drugs and alcohol, it's the thinking that allows me to think that what I'm doing is okay. And uh, so it was it was it was profound hearing him talk about that. Uh so that's why we do this. We have these conversations so that you know, and granted, other we've got a bunch of people in the comments that are our friends that are in recovery, but it's for the people that aren't in recovery and the people that are new, that are that are in their in their in their ism right now saying, I'm doing okay. Come on, guy, let's uh let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Well, I think that's one of the main reasons what kept me out for so long is because I was an optimist, because I seen the best in every situation, and it kept me complacent in those spaces. Like I didn't know anything else, so why would I seek anything else? Since you know what I mean? Like, and I think that's why I'm so passionate and I'm so driven to do the work that I'm doing, because people just don't know about recovery. I had never, ever been introduced to any form of recovery. I I didn't realize till I walked in my first AA meeting that my granddaddy wasn't Alzheimer's, and then I found out from family that he passed away with 31 years of sobriety in AA, and there were signs all over the house, easy does it one day at a time. But I had no clue what that was, you know, until I walked into my first meeting. And so it's like again, you know, it was there, but I didn't know it, you know. Um, and and again, I made the best of those situations and normalized what I was doing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

My uh my grandmother was 26 years sober when I got sober, so uh I know all about it. And I was my first meeting, I was nine months old in a baby carrier because my mom was in and out of the program. And I remember the meetings being at my house when I was a kid, and I would walk in, and I was in high school, so I was stoned out the bejesus, and I would walk in and the smell of coffee, but they always had cookies, and I like that, especially when you're stoned out the bejesus. But uh uh, I don't know what's going on with Krista's stuff, but this conversation has been uh awesome so far. And uh, so now you've uh you your your daughter passed away and you're still running the streets, right? You know, let's let's get to that gift of desperation. What led you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

So ironically, in this wild when I didn't even realize it until I was out of the other side of it, but for two years, like uh after that, I got arrested on her birthday that year after she passed away, and then I got arrested for the last time the next year after on the day that we buried her. And I had that was like not my I was not asking to get arrested. I did not have any intentions on getting caught. Um, but I caught a bunch of charges. I had like 42 felonies um out of Manning, South Carolina, Clarendon County, and then I got caught for four more felonies for distribution of fentanyl and heroin and manufactured methymethamphetamines the last time, um, and then also absconding drug court because they had sentenced me to drug court in Clarendon County. I absconded and never felt followed through. So then I caught the four more felonies in Charleston and I sat in uh Charleston County for about seven months. Um, during that time, though, I was facing 11 years. So at that point, I had just come to this level of acceptance of I'm going to prison, it's cool. Like I'm at a level of acceptance, like wherever the universe needs me, you're right. Like if if I'm needed behind the wall, I'm going behind the wall. If I get an opportunity to go back out, then I get an opportunity to go back out. I knew I wanted something different, I just did not know how to find that or what that was going to look like. And I remember um I read some self-help books while I was in there, uh, The Wise Heart by Jack Cornfield. It's the Buddhist principles of the Buddhist psychology. And I started practicing mindfulness and setting intentions and forgiveness. Um, and then I read um The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, great book. And I I I ironically was locked up with a yogi who was in there for improper use of a telephone. And she introduced me to yoga and the chakras and Reiki healing and all these things while I was in Charleston County. I can't make this shit up. So, so you know, kind of right before I was released, I was offered a deal to do drug court again. And I was like, sure, like, yeah, I mean I'm I'm down. I I I had heard that you never get two opportunities to do drug court. So when they came to me with that, I was like profound, like, whoa, this is wild. And so um I ended up uh getting sentenced to drug court. And uh when I got out, my my drug dealer picked me up and put me in a hotel and and gave me a pack to sell, right? Because this is the only lifestyle I knew. I was going right back to what I knew. That's all I knew was like being on the streets. I knew I did not want to go back to my traffickers, right? Like I did, I knew I did not want to, you know, go back into. That lifestyle. So I was like, okay, I can sell drugs and I can make this. And um, I remember going to drug court my first time. I hadn't done any drug testing for them. I hadn't gone to any meetings for them or treatment commitments. And ironically, the judge is in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, and he sentenced me to 90 meetings in 90 days. And when I walked in that jail, that courtroom, I had an ounce of heroin and an ounce of ice on me in the courtroom, general sessions. And I did not even realize I went in there with those drugs on me until I was leaving. I was like, whoa, something's got to change. Like, I can't keep either I'm going to go all in and I'm going to do this thing and not sell drugs and complete drug court, or I'm going to run. It's going to be one extreme to the other. And uh I got a couple of series of phone calls as I was leaving the courthouse that day. And um someone told me about an Oxford house and uh gave me a phone number to call. And I called to set up an interview, and I went to my first AA meeting. And when I walked into that first AA meeting, there was some women, one of the girls I was trafficked with, and the a guy that I used to buy dope from as the chair. And I know there's a meme out there. It says, when you walk in your AA meeting and you and you uh and your drug dealer's chair in the meeting. Well, that's kind of exactly what happened. But when I got when I got in my first meeting, I I realized like, you know, y'all are sober. This is where y'all have been. There's no way. Like, you know, when when people were sharing, they were sharing things that was going on within me. And I was like, you know, thinking it was the feds and like y'all are watching me, and this is crazy, you know. And um anyway, uh, when I left that meeting that night, I the Oxford house called me, and it was the girl from the meeting that I had been trafficked with that was the president of the house, and uh that was a whole nother Godwink, right? And and that aligned, and I was able to get into the Oxford house, and I hit the ground running. Like I just hit the ground running. Like I gave the pack back to the dope boy, he paid my deposit in my first two weeks of my Oxford house, like set me up. Um, you know, and and I haven't looked back, you know, it's been wild.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

And that was uh June 11th of 2018.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

So I I got sober in jail. I was using in jail. Um, I didn't get released from jail till October 18th of 2018. I got sober June 21st, 2018. But my recovery journey started when I got out of jail. I mean, I I used my recovery date as when I stopped using because I was still using in Charleston County when I first got in there. It was it was prevalent on the yard, right? Like it's very easy to get. Um, and and I kind of stepped away from that whole crowd and asked to get moved to a different unit because things were shifting inside of me spiritually that I didn't even realize. I just didn't want to be around that type of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Now the Oxford House is uh is a sober living community, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, so you were doing drug court and you were doing sober living. Um, what is uh what's sober living all about?

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Oh shit. So it's really depending on which sober living you go to. Um, our model, the Oxford House model, I mean, just just th we have 136 houses here in the state of South Carolina. We have over 4,000 houses in the nation. Um, here in my area, in the low country, we have 44. In the last five years, I think I've opened 32 of those. So, you know, we have expanded exponentially here. I believe in the model, it's a democratic process. There are positions inside of the house. You have a curfew, you have chores to do, uh, you have to have a job within two weeks, you got to find a home group, got to find a sponsor, mentor, or peer support, whatever modality that you work. Um, you have to do all of these things, but the structure aligned with the structure of drug court. So it was really easy for me to get acclimated, especially because I had a little bit of influence from the court system, right? Like had a little judicial push. Um, and I honestly did not want to go to prison. Um, I wanted to do something different. I had that ambivalence of like wanting to do it, but not knowing how to do it. And thank God that the people before me just kind of guided the way and showed me the way. And, you know, um, it's it's been a magical experience. Um, so yeah, I think it's different, whatever sober living you go into. I can't say I've seen one subliving uh living ran the same way. Um ours is done by as a democracy. There aren't any managers, there aren't any uh paid employees in our houses. They are peer-ran sober living houses, and it works. Um, there's a huge study that DePaul University does, and there's an 82% success rate that if you stay in Oxford for 18 months, you can sustain long-term recovery for the rest of your life. And those numbers are huge, right? Um, and it works for me. Um, and I think um, you know, because of the life saving that it did for me, like I just keep promoting it and expanding it because there's so many people that want and need um, you know, safe, sober living, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Well let's define, I mean, uh, this is this is literally for the people who don't know what sober living is. And uh, you know, I got out that we're funny, we're uh we're all in the same boat here, and I love when this happens because you got sober in jail, I got sober in jail, Krista got sober in jail. We all got look at how much we have in common. And but uh, you know, I got out of jail and I went uh and I never went to sober living, I never went to rehab, never went to detox. Detox was four days in a as three days in a jail cell, but um uh just four, because sober living is very prevalent down in the south, and up here there's not much sober living, and I'm just outside of Chicago. And you said DePaul, that's a Chicago school.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Um, but uh what is so sober living is a place you can go and stay, and as long as you stay sober and follow the rules and the guidelines, that you can have housing. Uh, you can stay in an Oxford house as long as you like. I mean, we've got people that have been in Oxford for 25 years, we've been existing since 1975. So we have people that have long-term residence. Um, I was in a house potentially for almost two years. Um, and then I uh shifted to my own one bedroom uh little cottage house um on one of the properties. But um, you know, it it's just uh it's what you make of it. I'm just gonna keep it 100. I mean, you can go in a sober living and use if you want, but you're gonna end up getting caught and you're not gonna be able to stay very long. Um with Oxford House, if you have a return to use, you have an hour to leave, and then we provide resources to treatment, detox, or other sober living options for you to go to. But ultimately, with ours, uh, we we have strict stipulations that if your behavior is off or you uh, you know, uh you could be expelled for for return to use.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

So you know you live, you pay rent. Um, do you pay you is it utilities are included and all that other stuff? You know what what are the nitty-ditty great details?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

So depending on which and I I can only speak for Oxford House, right? That's the only thing I have experience in. So with us, you have a 150 non-refundable move-in fee, and this is goes across the nation, right? Every house. And then it's depending on the house, you pay 120 to $200 a week, and you pay that in advance. So potentially our houses here in the low country run between $150 and $170 a week. That includes your rent, that uh, you know, your rent, your your utilities, uh, all of the furniture is provided, everything is there, all the house supplies, uh cleaning supplies, toiletries, um, all of that is there. Um, the only thing that you know you will need to provide is you know your own food if you want special food, but food banks drop off food to our houses um all the time. I can't say that about every Oxford house, right? But here in the low country, we have set that up to get people food that maybe, you know, um need that need food. Um, so yeah, it's it's everything's included. That's the internet, you know, your phone. They there's a house phone in every house in case you don't have one. Um, and and then again, water, lights, rent, all of that's included in that.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, I love that. And that's not then I'll something that I don't think people understand that's out there is for 600 to 750 bucks a month, um, you're paying for your rent, the utilities, the gas, the water, the internet, this and that. What would cost you, even in a shitty neighborhood, you know, what would cost you two grand a month, you're getting for half of that, and you get the stability and you get the uh the you get meetings and you get some accountability and um you know, I think I think sober living isn't talked about enough. I talk I go to talk at rehabs a lot, I go and talk at detox a lot, and all these people that say they're going home after they get out, you know, give yourself a chance. Give yourself a chance. Sober living is a tremendous opportunity. Now let's talk about who can go to sober living. Do you have to come out of treatment of some sort?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Nope. You can come straight off the streets with us, you can have a positive UA, you can have drugs in your system. As long as you are uh honest about where you're at and share that and be transparent with wherever you're interviewing at, they will let you in the door. It doesn't matter. We don't we don't require detox, we don't require now if it's alcohol or Xanax, we are you know liable to hold you accountable to getting to detox, but houses will potentially hold the bed for you if they vote you in um and just you know help guide you on that journey and get you into detox. And once you detox off of alcohol or Xanax, you can come in. Um we accept individuals that take MOUD for medicines for opioid use disorder. So we take all those. Um and and and it's uh we try to meet people where they're at, right? Like and try to provide you know these things for them. But those are the only there are no other stipulations. You can come in without money, even. Um, a lot of our houses are financially stable, and if not, there's some you know, grant funding, there's scholarships, there's all these things in different organizations that we network with that can help financially too. Um, and invoke rehab is a is a great resource. They help you get job placement, they help with EES, they help with bus passes, they help with all of the things. So, you know, we have such a huge resource, and especially here in the low country, like so many organizations and nonprofits that you know are here to help people as long as they're willing for to get the help, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

You know, and that's what most people so why you know when you look at the numbers of people that relapse after after rehab, right? Uh something like 70 to 80 percent of people relapse. Why? Why do you relapse? And it's because life happens and don't have a job, don't have a car, don't have a good place to live, don't have this, don't have an education, don't have means, don't have food, you know. So they what do they do? They turn back to their old solution, which is as we were talking about before, that was normal. You know, doing it this way is the abnormal. If you get sober, I got sober at 26, so I had 26 years of learned behavior, and then now I'm fresh out of rehab, 30 days gung-ho, and I have to learn all of it all over again with all this knowledge behind me that if I could just go sling a little dope, I'd be fine. Yeah, that's uh that's that's the that's that start of the relapse.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

And yeah, and I really appreciate you mentioning like your treatment, you didn't get an opportunity to go to treatment, you didn't get an opportunity to go to detox. Um why we have such high rates coming out of treatment is because this individuals are not connected to recovery. There's a two different, those are two different models, right? You have a treatment model and you have a recovery model. And I believe in the recovery-oriented systems of care model, allowing someone to gain as much recovery capital that they can obtain to help support them in their recovery. And and it's wild because the a lot of these states, and South Carolina being one of them, is a treatment state, right? Like all of the funding goes through the treatment. But what happens to these individuals after treatment? Just like you just stated, they go back to the same people, places, and things. They go back to the same things that there was their normal, right? And it's like introducing those individuals to community, to connection, because the opposite of addiction is connection, right? So, you know, to those recovery communities where they can be around the same uh individuals with the same ideations, right? Like it's you you can't put someone, it's almost like that story, the forest with the tree. And you put plant a tree if it's wet by a dead tree, the the tree's gonna die. You know, if you put a tree by a live tree, the tree's gonna flourish and grow.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Oh, what a good that what a picture you paint with those. Oh, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

So you put somebody back in this environment where it's still unhealthy and they were not thriving and they were dying, you know, and then you could put them into this community where it's alive and thriving and doing the things that you know for fulfilling purposeful life, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:31

You know, I this the word you just said the something that I recovery capital. Every meeting I go to is recovery capital, every you know, they said that 90 and 90, so important, so valuable, and uh, I think I mean it's crucial uh because it's that foundation, and you lit get that good foundation. If you try stacking stuff on a shaky foundation, you're gonna be shaky. Whereas if you get that good foundation and you know, you start stacking on top of it, now you can actually move, now you can breathe, now you can grow. And oh, I love that dead tree. Uh that dead tree analogy you just did. That was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I mean, it's way more uh, you know, the way it's like the story of it is way more, you know, uh uh uh detailed, but uh I I did the short, the short route.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah, that that was perfect. That was absolutely perfect. So uh, okay, so we've talked, I don't want to beat up sober living anymore, but I'm glad we talked about it, and I'm glad we clarified it for people who don't know. Um, so I wanna my next question is you've you've jumped into working in the recovery field. When did you do so? What was your your calling to do all this?

SPEAKER_02 35:43

So, to be quite frank with you, I was living in an Oxford house for two years, and I got the opportunity to become a certified peer support specialist. Um, and I did the training and I learned so much because I had this biasedness not only towards uh medicines for opioid use disorder, I believe absence was the only way, AA all the way, 12-step, 12-step, and it opened up my heart and mind to so much more and so many different pathways. And um, I got the opportunity to get hired on with Oxford House. And my first thing, my passion, what drove me to begin with was opening women and children's houses so that nobody will ever have to go through what I went through with the loss of my child, right? So I could not get sober and get my daughter back, right? I didn't get it done and she passed away, right? There was no opportunity for me to do that again. However, and with my living amends, I have opened probably 14 women in children houses and have been able to connect these women back with their kids and get them get custody back of their children, right? That was that was my main like drive. Like I don't and it still is drive, right? She is my daughter, is my drive, right? And it's like trying to help people and and men, I don't want to just uh single out females because fathers still want to be fathers to their to their children as well. And it's providing those spaces to be able to heal with their children, right? And so that was that was pretty much the catalyst of me coming into working into the recovery field. I at the same time I got hired on with Oxford House, I got hired on at a 301, uh Dorchester Alcohol and Drug Commission. And it's a totally different world in the in the 301 system. But I was able to get those experiences through the 301 and then and then also with Oxford House, and the dynamic of the peer support in both of those worlds is just totally different, right? With Oxford House, there's a lot of case management, there's a lot of uh you know, riding, people around, there's a lot of all the things really in-depth. And then with the 301, you have all these stipulations and guidelines and politics and all of this, which I did not really care for. Also, you were enclosed in an office for you know eight hours a day. I I wanted to be out in the community, I wanted to be doing all the things. So uh what the board chair for Favor Low Country had reached out to me through another friend, uh, had heard about me, and they were like, hey, why don't you offer ASA the job? And yeah, this this place was about to dissolve. Um, it was um, you know, COVID happened, there was nothing going on, you know, they couldn't keep an executive director, they couldn't keep an employee. There was a we only had the peer support trainings going on. So we we do that here at Favor. We we do the training, 46-hour training to, you know, train individuals to become peer support specialists and then embed them out in the community uh and organizations and entities that hire peers, right? And so that was the only thing going on at that time, and I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I'm gonna be quite frank. I have learned um through a lot of mistakes uh of what not to do, right? It's been a huge learning experience. All the while I was working on my bachelor's at the College of Charleston. So I've been doing that. I did that too. I just graduated in December with that, and I'm now in the master's program for public administration. So I'm wanting my my goal now, because everything has shifted. I didn't I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up, right? I knew I wanted to help people, I knew I wanted to continue to open houses, which I do. Um, I've it I just didn't know where the universe needed me to be. Um, and and somebody approached me and said that, you know, I have a great stage presence and a voice that people listen to, and I really needed to get into legislation and policy change. And so that's the path that I'm going right now. Um and I I'm in hopes that one day, you know, wherever I'm needed in that space, um I will be a voice, you know. Um, and and and I have been able to create initiatives and programs through this um through this position and learn grant writing and getting grants. And we went from a $90,000 a year organization to year three, we are almost at $750,000. That's not right, it's not a lot, but it's way better. I have my better, it's not a lot to me because I have goals and vision and aspirations. I'm trying to be a millionaire, yeah, a million million dollar organization, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

That's my everything's gonna start somewhere, you know, and you're on a great start. So Krista's having huge technical difficulties, but she's in the chat right now. Yes, okay, I'm in the chat, and it won't let me do anything else. Uh, but she doesn't want to miss this one. So Krista is a huge fan of yours. I don't know if you know. Oh, that's awesome. And she is in the process of trying to start a sober living in her community, and she's in front of uh the the government trying to uh adjust policies as well. So she is uh she is she she did not want to miss this one, and here she is having technical difficulties today.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Well, her and I can jump on a call outside of this, and I can try and help guide her, but there's ways that you have to approach this. And we have uh going back to the several, we have a hell of a legal team out of Washington, D.C. The founder of our organization was a lobbyist, Paul Malloy. He is an amazing guy, but he got policies and legislation changed for Oxford houses. So there are a lot of stipulations that you have to go through if you're not an Oxford house, right? Uh, and and I know that sounds crazy, right? But there is protection in legislation for individuals with disabilities, right? The FD, the FD uh the 1988 um Federal Fair Housing Act, it it protects individuals with substance use disorder, so they cannot discriminate. So that put it but and that doesn't not it's not just Oxford House, that's with any sober living. So if she's running into anything, she can refer to the Federal Fair Housing Act. Um, and there's there's a couple of other things that she can lean into. Um, it really just depends on what kind of sober living that she wants to open. It there's a lot of red tape in different counties and different areas and uh zoning and building.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

It's different state to state and city to city and county to county, so it's different all over. But Kyle, our friend Kyle, who is uh he he's actually the this hoodie I'm wearing, normalized sobriety. He's uh he's trying, he's from Wisconsin, where he says that alcohol has been normalized and they've normalized drinking and people can drink at an at underage and things like that. So he started normalized sobriety, and he just said in the comments that they have a real lack of sober livings in Wisconsin. He's on boards and trying to do things the same thing, so but it's different everywhere, and there's different laws and and rules. But then the Oxford house, you how many Oxford houses are there in the country?

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Over 4,000. I think we're at 4,387 when I looked yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

The number just keeps growing because uh Nikki's in here saying she's got Oxford houses in Arizona, and uh that's the best thing about this. So I'm gonna get uh Asa on tiki talkie, whether she likes it or not, because uh we get to make all these friends all over the country, and uh, you know, and we get to see how it is in other places. If I hadn't done all this with Krista, I would have never been in Charleston um for Freedom Fest and learning about all the stuff that you guys are doing down there. So, you know, it's uh so now you gotta get on tiki taki. I'll get you there. Um so okay, so you you got into favor low country. They they they pulled you in, you've become uh becoming executive director. What what what policies have you been able to adjust and what's what's broken that you are fixing right now?

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Currently, or all through it?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

All through it, all through it, no okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

So, so you know, one of the things, so what I what I've done is I've used my experiences and everything that I went through and the barriers and challenges that I had to overcome, right? So I'm using those experiences to change the systems, right? So, for instance, I was arrested, I don't know how many times I over 60, right? Out of Al Cana detention center here in Charleston County, you know, there was never any resources offered to me. There were never any recovery, nothing. No housing, no anything. And I would just revolve, right? Revolving door, just in and out. And so what we've done is I created a pilot. We started it back in July, where we have peer supports going inside of the jail and creating recovery plans for individuals before they get out. So landing them in a sober living, connecting them with the recovery community, connecting them with a peer support while they're in there, the peer support that they'll be working with out here, right? So they're already connected, have a bond, connection, um, and then recover, you know, connecting them to whatever modality of recovery that they they think is best for them because we let them create their recovery plans, right? Um, what that might look like. Also, you know, advocating for them in court, right? When they go in front of the judge and they've been working with this peer support for X amount of time, we write letters of support and show up to court for them so that we could hopefully get their sentences reduced or ref deter them from going to prison, right? If we can get them into a treatment center, if that's what they need, or if they need detox, if they're only in there and they get a PR bond out, we might meet with them one time and and try to advocate for that. So going into the jail presented a lot of challenges. One, I was working with the previous uh sheriff. Uh Roger works for Richie, and Richie is the sheriff now, but before that was another sheriff. And I had had multiple conversations with her over the last five years. Um, she talked great and never never followed through, unfortunately. And that's neither here nor there. And then Richie got into office last year, and I was able to have a sit-down with him and explain to him where our bound, like where where our challenges were, where we weren't feeling supported. Like people need a chance, they need an opportunity to recover. And um you couldn't have anything, any type of law enforcement infraction, or you know, you couldn't connect a seatbelt ticket, uh uh a warning, any of that to be able to go inside the jail. You had to have a 10-year window of not not having any infraction. Well, I mean, I've only been out then, it was six years, and they wouldn't let me in. And um, I'm like, that's one thing that's gotta change. If you want someone with lived experience that has had experience with being inside of the jail, as well as substance use disorder, more so opioid use disorder, because that is what we're dealing with here in the low country is you know, the overdose overdoses is just wild. I'm like, we have that's the first thing that's gotta change. So he wrote rewrote the prop policies inside of the jail, and now we have five peer supports going in weekly. Um yeah, and that's been wild, right? Like that's been a crazy experience. And I mean, we the success stories that we're hearing coming out of it. One of the gentlemen that was approached by one of the law enforcement, his last time that he was arrested, he was offered these services. That's been a crazy experience. And I mean, we don't mind me.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

It's uh I'm trying checking on things and doing pushing buttons.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Okay, cool. Um, it you know, he came to me day before yesterday and he was like, if it wouldn't have been for that, for that officer, you know, trying to trying to offer me help, I wouldn't be where I am today. And he's now over a year sober, and he was one of our beginning per people in the pilot that we we worked with. And just hearing that, you know, it just warmed my heart because like sometimes I always feel like I'm not doing enough. Like there's so much stuff that needs to be done. And I realize I'm only one person, but at the end of the day, it's like so many people need help. And um, anyway, it was very fulfilling and rewarding to hear him say that. Uh, another thing that we did, um, we have overdoses, and you know, of course, uh, we're we're we I think everybody is is facing those. Um, but with law enforcement, um, they're the first ones at the scene. And so we had paired with the Charleston City Police Department. Um, and they just hired a peer-through us, uh, and they're gonna be doing follow-ups for overdoses and doing drop-off bags and providing resources for individuals, you know, planting seeds, if nothing else, to let them know, like, hey, when you're ready, we're here for you. And it's wild to see the recovery in the public health sectors come together, right? Like it's never been that way. And and and and addiction is a public health problem. Like it's not just, you know, it's just it's just wild. Um, it's really cool to see. And then we have the Bridge to Hope app, which you get 24-7 peer access at any time, um, and resources and treatment centers and detoxes and sober living resources. And right now it's only covering Berkeley, Charleston, Dorchester counties, but we have a vision for expansion throughout the state and at some point maybe further. But the logistics and the analytics behind that app is something savage. And uh that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

I've heard about it, and uh, and you know, I want to go back to the advocacy at the courts because I mean, if uh if Roland Hazard hadn't been at the J at the court to talk the the judge out of letting Ebby out, Ebby wouldn't have found the Oxford group and he would have never found talked to Bill W. And you know, this is every time you do what you do, you are potentially creating another Abby that creates another Bill Wilson. That's uh that's enormous, and you know, that's this is the kind of crucial thing that that people don't do, you know, especially people who go to meetings. They go to meetings, they don't drink, go to meetings, they find God, they have faith, their life gets a little better. They'll keep going to meetings, they keep helping others. It's doing these other things, it's going above, it's going beyond, and it's getting involved, and that really changes everything. And what you're doing right now, you're changing society. You're changing, you're not just changing, you know, one person at a time, you're changing thousands.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

And I still have lots of work to do. So, and and I realize that, right? I got I've accepted my purpose here. I know that it's bigger than I could ever even imagine. And I'm okay with that. Like, right, I'm just going with the flow of whatever the universe brings in front of me. And uh, you know, if whatever that looks like, you know, we've been able to expand our services in Berkeley County and we have a peer support that does outreach out there. Um we created a program for regulate and recover, which is working with uh violent offenders coming out of probation, pardon, and parole where they can work on their anger management challenges along with their substance use with a clinical component here. Um, you know, there there's so there are so many programs, you know, and it's just it's just wild. Um I it even feels weird just saying all that out loud.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

So what is uh let's uh we'll go we'll I'll give you the last question is what is what is your hope for the future? Okay, I get I get asked tough questions every now and then.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Um continue to heal society, you know. Um I'm really big. Um I'm a Reiki master. I collect crystals. If you can't see behind me, I have a lot of them. And I my whole house is gridded, my my office is gridded in my car. You know, I wear them usually on me at all times. I believe in the healing of crystals. I do a lot of meditation, I do a lot of sound healing. Um, and this is all for my self-care, right? Like I I feel like that's imperative for my spiritual well-being. Um, and I also, you know, take trips and love the mountains and the water and um all the things, right? And so I have realized that I am a conduit to continue to heal. And there's so many different levels to that. And right now it's, you know, at a level. And when I lean into my Reiki healing, that's another level of healing. And when I get into legislation and policy change, it's gonna be a whole nother level of healing. And it's just, you know, I want to continue to promote healing. That that that's my goal, you know, and and that looks like not just with substance use disorder, because when you remove the substances, you know, you still have a lot of things you need to heal. And um, it's it's with healing families, it's healing relationships, it's healing jobs, it's healing, you know, spiritually, mentally, you know. Um, yeah, that's that's my goal.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

You know, I uh the the awareness isn't uh isn't as big as it needs to be. Um the the fentanyl crisis is just that. I don't believe that there is experimentation anymore. Um, you know, I'm I'm I'm 48 and you know, 30 plus years ago when I started, you know, experimenting with drugs, it was a lot different than it is today. Uh everything is stronger, and now they're adding fentanyl to everything. The days of experimenting with drugs are gone, and because anything can kill you now. And that's I people don't get that. People are they still think that oh well, you know, my parents smoked weed back in the day. Yeah, great, but it wasn't it was this ain't your this ain't your dad's weed. This is uh this is everything is laced, every bit of heroin is laced, every pill that comes off uh and being sold on the streets is laced. Everything you're putting into your body could be laced and could kill you. Are out of this world, and we this this this fight that I know you're fighting, that I know that Krista's fighting is uh is the is more the fight of awareness than anything else, letting people know dude, this is not the way to go. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so Asa, I'm so glad you were here and joined us today. Um Christa's technology, she's gonna be she's gonna be yelling at me all day long because her technology wasn't working, but uh this was a great conversation, and I'm I'm so grateful for you for all the things that you're doing, and anybody who gets to work with you is uh is is very lucky because uh, you know, you can't uh you know, passion is something that you can't, you know, pay for or sell. It's uh it's inherent, and uh and you've got it, and that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Thank you. I appreciate you all for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Yeah, so thank you everyone for for watching, and uh we'll see you again next week. And God loves you, so do we. And uh have a great day.