Ears to Hear

Modern Christian Persecution - Derek Vanbuskirk | Ears to Hear #13

• Reed McRae • Season 1 • Episode 13

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0:00 | 48:06

 I sit down with a lifelong friend turned reporter on what he sees with Christian persecution today and many other interesting topics. 

Follow him on X: https://x.com/DerekVBK
His Insta: https://www.instagram.com/derek_vanbuskirk/

Title Song: Nothing but the Blood of Jesus by Free As a Bird

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SPEAKER_00

So I just figured this out I interviewed this guy last week, um Yan Nikalick. Okay. He's like he's like uh the expert on like forced organ harvesting of the Chinese Christians. Whoa. Yeah, we can get into that if you want. Um but yeah, after my my my editor was like, oh uh your your introduction really sucks. So they gave me some advice. So I I said like, well, some people do like uh I think Theobond does this and Jordan Peterson were like they have the interview and then they'll do like just by themselves to do like a little monologue explaining what they found out in the interview and kind of admit about the person. Uh because you want to make sure you introduce them properly. Of course. Or they were saying you get them to introduce themselves. Right. Um, I think it's better if you do it yourself because it shows that it's more respectful, I think. Yeah, it's like you've done your due diligence. Yeah. But it's like for me, that's always the hardest part. So because it's like the only part of the interview where it's like really scripted. Yeah. Everything else is like just free, free for all. Well, hopefully, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

So those are just things you can practice at some point. Oh thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, dude. Well, allow me to introduce my guest, my first guest.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, was that was that part of the uh yeah, might as well be.

SPEAKER_01

Um Derek Van Busker, welcome to Ears to Hear. I appreciate you being here, dude. No, thank you. Thank you. This is great. This is great. Derek, uh, we've known each other since we were three, maybe? 2000 and I feel like we've always known each other. Yeah, we were born in the same town. India Hospital?

SPEAKER_00

Uh in Eisenhower, Palm Springs baby. Oh, fancy. Yeah, what can I say? Dang. Yeah, I was a little ghetto. Well, it was right after they, I think right afterwards they they stopped doing babies there. Okay. And you were like born right after me, so that might be why.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, cool. Well.

SPEAKER_00

Very important information.

SPEAKER_01

Very important information. We were born in the same hometown. Our parents have known each other for too long. Too long. We grew up together, we did not go to the same high schools.

SPEAKER_00

No, I wish I want to show it to your high school actually. Do you really? Well, part of me guys Dylan and I talk about this sometimes, my brother. Um, yeah, like Lake's dope. And you said like the Better Water Polo program, and I we had a lot of friends go there. I ended up making a lot of friends at at my high school, but um yours was it was pretty great. It was cool.

SPEAKER_01

It was a good time. It's good. But Shadow Hills was cool too, and you and Dylan like ran that place. Oh, I you did, yeah. You guys were like the guys.

SPEAKER_00

Well, until I got cheated out of the uh I'm pretty sure I won that the the student body election, but we'll see. I think I actually am submitting a FOIA request, a Freedom of Information Act request to my local high school to have them release the I found out you could do this, so I'm gonna do it. Release the D Max nine years ago. Well, uh usually I was looking at it, usually about seven years they delete the server, so it might be too late now. But I want to try. We have a reception coming up, like the 10-year reunion. Okay. I'd love to be like, yeah, full-time journalist. Oh, yeah, we're we're we're in charge of it. Like, yeah, we're we're hosting uh yeah, I'd be like, yeah, I'm a full-time journalist, and also here's information that proved I actually won that election. That would be quite the really stick it to the high school. Really stick it to the van. No, but it would be funny.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if I chair with anybody, but it would be high school was never gonna let you win.

SPEAKER_00

No, I I want to make sure that I peaked in high school because the rest has just been.

SPEAKER_01

Right, it's all been downhill since you and me both, brother. Wait, how weren't you wouldn't you have been in charge of it?

SPEAKER_00

So I I ran for student body president. Oh Dylan was senior class president, so he would be in charge of the senior class. But we're gonna be doing it together. What if Dylan sabotaged you? Have you ever considered that? No. Like insider. Probably the opposite. He actually wanted to go for student body president. I talked him out of it. He probably would have won. Um, but I think I would have done a better job. Yeah. Um, I think I think he would agree with that. I don't know. But he he did great as as um senior president. So it's good. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

So fast forward through high school, you and I both were raised in very faith-filled families. Yes, very prominent, especially in an area where I don't know what the stats are. And Palm Springs and the Valley.

SPEAKER_00

It's very interesting there, because it's like they don't care. Like, California's just chill. So people like always like being a Christian in like you know, Palm Springs. Like, nobody cares. It's like you could be, you know, a super faithful Christian, you could be transgender, nobody cares as long as you're like not mean to people. Yeah, just like like if you love people, you're nice, that's what matters.

SPEAKER_01

Be there, contribute a little bit. Don't don't take away from the society. Yes. If you take people don't like it, other than that, California.

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, as long as you're just being nice to people, I think that's what really matters. Yeah. You can be some pothead who's just chilling in this basement all day, but like if you're nice to people, no one nobody cares.

SPEAKER_01

I yeah, I agree. And I liked being like a faith minority at my high school. Yeah. Did you feel that way? Oh yeah, it was great. Because like we would both everybody believed in you know Jesus and whatever, but right. That would be better, the world would be a better place. But I feel like there was like some big parties that overlapped in high school between like just people where it was like multi-school parties, usually drinking, usually drugs. Sorry, mom, but we would go to these parties. I never went to those parties, except one. You did go to one.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so so funny story. It was uh just graduated. Uh it was the day of my graduation, and my grandma was like hang out with us. She came home from like red red um red robin. No, red robin. Okay. And um my grandma was like, You wanna have to a party tonight? I'm like, well, there's one, but there's like because we already had our graduation party, it was it was it was great. Yeah, it was really good. Um and I was like, there's one, but there's gonna be like smoking and drinking stuff there. She's like, Oh, so you don't have any friends. You know my grandma, so this is hilarious. Totally out of character. I'm like, okay, fine, I'll go. It was it was alright. Kind of, I don't know. Yeah, I don't like babysitting, yeah, which is how those things tend to turn out.

SPEAKER_01

Usually so we would go to those. Uh-huh. And we're the D D for all our friends who want to just get wasted. And but I'd like made it, I mean, it was just known that I was the guy. The guy who didn't do that stuff. Yeah. And at parties, like people who weren't super close with me would be like, oh, like Reed's here, like, let's get him a drink. Yeah. And my close circle friends would be like, no, guys, and they'd be like drunk. Yeah. And they'd be like, no, guys, like, he doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like they they kind of want to say no for you. They did. It was cool. Yeah, like you watchers like those dare to do dare not to do drugs shit thing, uh, you know, like those videos, and it's like uh totally the opposite.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

At least in my personal experience. And I think a lot of that is like if you're just like upfront about who you are, right? Like before you even show up to the party, they know like, you know, even since then, I've been yeah, like I've never had issues where people are like, take this, or they're like maybe they'll offer to be nice. Or like the other day, uh I was standing at a friend's house and he like you know, they're like pass around their bombs, like, is today the day? I'm like, no, it isn't. But it's just uh you know, it's it's just chill. But they said it joking, right? Yeah, they said joking. I mean, if I would have offer it, they'd be like, oh yeah, cool. Right. But like they're not, no one's no one's forcing it. I think a lot of that comes from is I used to be like the most um, I don't know if you remember middle school, Derek. I'm just gonna work. Yeah, I just like always on the high horse, holier than thou. But like I think I've found like a good middle ground where I can like really be um true to my morals. Like I just won't like sacrifice any of those. Yeah. But also like super just chill with people. Yeah. Like I'm not gonna like if you ask me what my thoughts on the thing that you're currently doing, you're gonna hear it. But um like you can hang with the sinners.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean I think while making them know you don't agree with it, but without making them feel hated by you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I I think I'm pretty good at that. I think we have a lot of mutual friends that uh have have told me that. Like, again, I'd prefer if they didn't do that. If I'm hosting something, they're not doing that out of respect. Yes. But um, I don't know, I think uh I have a lot of friends that have been stopped doing that stuff, and I think a lot of it has to do with my example. Right. Um have told me that directly and some haven't, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I agree, and you've you've always been a good example, so thank you for that. Yeah, but yeah, no, growing up in a setting where it was just common to do I mean mainly weed. Yeah, that was just like the thing. You go to Coachella, everyone's smoking. Yeah, it's just what you did in high school, and thankfully it was raised, so it was easy to just stay away from all that. But I think once you do it, it's a little easier to keep doing. Yeah, like if you just make the decision once to stay away from anything that would numb your relationship with God, then it's just done. So every time following, every party, every interaction, even friends now I have who do that stuff, like it's just known. There's a mutual friend we have who I won't say, I won't say his name. Um one of the best guys I I know, but Oh, must be a different guy than I'm thinking.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

He's amazing, but like we're going on a trip soon, and like the jokes in our group chat about like this is gonna be Reed's first, you know, oh man, we're gonna get him out late, we're gonna get him drunk, we're gonna and like it's all jokes, and I know, but it's just it's funny all these years later, like there's still the respect, there's still the and it's respect via like guys joking about it. Yeah, anyway, that's all good. So high school ends, and we both we leave for two years. So we both dedicate two years of our lives to go and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we had, and your twin brother, so this brother we've referred to, Dylan, we all left within two months of each other. I left in October. You and I left the same day. December, yeah, 20 nine 2017. Um November 8th. Oh, okay. So we were a month apart. Yeah. Because that was October 19th. So 2017, a month apart, less than a month apart. We all leave the country for two years. There's like a band of us, but the three of us will talk about. Yeah. I go to Ghana, you go to the Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic. And Dylan goes to Russia. Russia. Oh gosh. So, I mean, we we could spend all day talking about that and we won't, but I'm just curious, real quick, like, I know what your experience was. Yeah. You know what mine was, and I know what Dylan's was. Mine and Dylan's, I feel, were polar opposite. Mine felt pretty opposite with Dylan's. But yeah, Ghana's a lot of people. I also don't think ours were as similar as we think. As we think. Like more so than Dylan.

SPEAKER_00

I've been to Ghana.

SPEAKER_01

You have their people.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, they're they're obviously people, they're great people. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I don't be that guy, but when you kind of get to a lot of these kind of less developed countries, uh, a lot of them kind of are the same. The very difference, I think, in their culture, but I think a lot of the like mentality, mentality, the lifestyle experiences kind of are similar.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I agree 100%. And having been to other now third world countries, like, yeah, it there's just a similar mentality that the people have.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Um, and there's kind of a contemplative spiritual side to that. Right. But Dominicans are like, they'll tell you they love Jesus, as a lot of them are like gang members and some uh stuff, or they're like blasting music at 2 a.m. And it's great, they're very open-loving people, yeah. Um, but it's just totally different than like like Ghana.

SPEAKER_01

How did you feel like trying to preach Christ to these people? Uh-huh. What was the number one like cultural, like specific to the Dominican Republic issue you faced trying to preach them the gospel of Jesus Christ?

SPEAKER_00

Well everybody believed in Jesus. Okay. Uh the question is what did they have like a relationship with him? Did they have like faith? Yeah. Um, because again, you'll see like these the gangsters are they call them tigers. Okay. Tigers, you know. Um they're wearing crosses or they have cross tattoos, whatever. Um that's very common. Yeah, they're like, I love Jesus, but like they don't understand Jesus. They don't have a relationship with him, they don't really know what Jesus wants from them. Um and again, I didn't really teach a lot of those guys. Um we focus mostly on like families. Okay. Um, but yeah, that was kind of the the thing. It's like, okay, how do we get you to act on faith, like going to church, reading scriptures, praying, um, versus just again, like I met one atheist on my mission. Dude's really whack. He was like one two years. No, it was one, and he was like, I don't want to say quite demonic, but there was like something weird about him. And he was like, maybe it was demonic actually. He like pulled us in his house and was like going off on random tangents on like I don't I I don't know the details, but like maybe it was kind of like demonic topics, yeah, at least. Um, but everyone else like, yeah, like everyone believed in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I met witch doctors and stuff and they believed in Jesus, you know. Like the question is, okay, um getting them to understand what God wants from them and then acting on that. So like there's a motto, and I I think other um kind of Latin countries have this too, where it's like, like, hey, I love to see you at church. Oh, C Dios Chate, like if God wants. And they don't understand, like, no, yeah, like you you know what you can you can easily know what God wants and you can do that yourself. Right. Like, it's not just like, oh, God's gonna just let this happen.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think getting that faith is kind of the hardest part.

SPEAKER_01

See, that's that's extremely similar to Ghana. Same thing. Their their phrase was God willing. God willing. Yeah, it's exact similar idea. Well will you guys come and worship with us this Sunday at church? Yeah. Oh, if God wills it. It's like God wills it. I promise you, God wills for you to go to church. Like you don't have to wonder if he wants you to go to church.

SPEAKER_00

You can ask him if you want to double check, but like we all know the answer is gonna be go to church.

SPEAKER_01

He he does will that for you. Yeah, it's not me like trumping on your free will. That's just gospel.

SPEAKER_00

And one of the things I think we learned in our mission was it's not about just uh getting people to do the thing, but it's about getting them to want to do the thing. Yeah, and to commit to these commitments um and to do things on their own and figure out for themselves if this stuff is true. Not just I don't think I ever convinced somebody on my mission. I just kind of let I just offer them the tools to figure it out for themselves.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's almost like the you can you can lay out, I think this is like a persuasion tactic that people use, but you you lay out some pieces of information in front of them and they have to draw the conclusion between them. Yeah. So, and like the news does this all the time where it's like, you know, so 20-year-old drunk driving accident, blah blah blah, this, and then they'll like state another cause from what happened to that, and they don't say they're related, but because you're the viewer, you make the connection.

SPEAKER_00

Because yeah, and as far as the journalism part of that goes, like there's there's things you just can't prove. Right. Uh or at least, you know, it a lot of it really comes down to the laws. Like, like, oh, why don't you say oh why do you say alleged terrorists? It's because, well, even if this guy or like alleged murderer, like I watched uh there's a I reported on this video with this case where there's a little video of the guy shooting the other guy in the back of the head. Okay, like we know who the murderer is, right? Um however, if there's some kind of mistrial or something and we're famed as murderer, uh they can they can maybe come for a throat. They might lose that, but like it's not really worth doing. And you can just put alleged in front of it or like hedge your bets a little bit. Um contribute it to, oh, this person is saying this thing rather than I'm saying it. And then um, yeah, like people are smart, you don't have to draw everything out for them. Yeah, um, let let them make those decisions.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that that definitely was like if I had to go back, and this is what I've said, if I had to go back and do the two years again, the goal would be yeah, sifting through, because again, everybody believed in Jesus. That wasn't the issue. It was finding people who were serious and looking for more, more, like devoting their whole will and life to God because and going back to especially them not having the same means and opportunities that were fortunate enough to have here in America, for somebody to choose to devote their life there, I feel like is harder in a lot of ways. Yes, resource-wise, resource-wise, and and time-wise, because a lot of them just statistically are as fortunate, aren't as wealthy. Um, I mean, some of the situations people were in were just brutal, they're just very hard. So to choose to follow Christ, but more so than a surface level like confession, I believe in him, yeah, but really dedicate time to okay, I'm gonna serve in his kingdom, I'm gonna go out and find people that are lost, I'm gonna go and serve my brothers and sisters. And I mean, time-wise, yeah, logistics-wise, they don't have cars, they don't they don't have the money to serve a chance to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Especially if you're let's say baptizing a young man and now he's uh obviously he has his his own will, but right he's you know expected to go out and and do what we did and serve a mission, you know. Uh you pay for that yourself. Yeah, you know, and that's that's uh that's hard to do. Um yeah, no, it is you're uh you you are asking a lot from people, but also people people want that. Like not only do they need it, like they need it, it gives them a drive, it gives them, and more importantly, uh you have to be willing to to be able to sacrifice everything to achieve everything. Um what does Christ say? It's uh you know, whoever loses themselves and for my sake will find it. That's that's the greatest verse I love that. But also it's like you're you're inviting these people to you know to to become who they can become. And and it's it's hard, you're it's like, you know, drafting people, but also it's yeah, it's um they know what they're they're getting into and they they I don't know, it's it's great, it's the greatest thing there is.

SPEAKER_01

It really is. And I we both despite how great or challenging that two years was, we both come home. Dylan has it challenging in a whole different way where nobody's Christian. Yes. Hardly anyone's Christian.

SPEAKER_00

No matter what um certain people in the media tell you, uh, most people in in Russia are not Christian. Yes. And those who are are in name only.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Um, totally. So we you know, we would probably teach, I don't know, I could teach 10 to 20 lessons a day. He was maybe maybe talking talking about Jesus. Like two people a week?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, maybe he burnt more scriptures than he was able to pass out. Yeah, just for like legal reasons. Um is again crazy. So he's out there like doing the Lord's work. Oh, if you want to hear more against later, but like like you think we have a bad like Jehovah's Witnesses are literally getting uh uh tortured and like spied on in Russia. Right now, yeah, right now. Um I haven't been able to report on it much for like technical reasons, but it is it is very interesting. So it's it's so bad there. It's so crazy. In Russia, in yeah, Russia, just in general, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think this is a good segue. So we come home, we both have our lives, and and you now talk to me right now. So you're a full-time journalist.

SPEAKER_00

I'm a reporter, a general reporter for the Daily Caller. Okay. Um, so I do a bit of everything. Um however, I've been building a beat in Christian persecution.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um religion in general, but I think Christian is kind of like the main the main drive motivator. Um and so I've been able to report on many subjects as uh concerning that. Yeah. Um very into what's happening in Nigeria. I'm planning on going over the summer. Good luck. Um reporting on um the growth in Christian persecution in China, especially connected to the force organ harvesting.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

A lot more work to do on that. Um, I know a bit about it, and again, we want to do a lot more. Um we I think now is really the time to do something about that. And then I went out to Ukraine myself to cover uh um Christian persecution happening there, both by the Russians and within the Ukrainian government. Interesting. But uh and then I just touched on a bunch of other stuff. I have connections. Uh and again, this is something I'm still building on. It's like it's so it's so much like wow, I did not realize how much Christian persecution there was. Like at first, I'm like, oh, this would be kind of interesting, but it's like it's all over the place. And uh most of it never gets in the news. Yeah. Um, it's but it it's like it's always different. It's interesting because like religion is such an interesting faction in your life because it's not like it like makes up who somebody is, but it's not the only thing.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So it's like the Nigeria thing, for example. People are like, oh, it's uh it's about climate change, and there's like you know, they're finding over farmland, or people like, no, it's an ethnic, it's like an ethnicity thing. Yeah, but it's like, or no, it's a religion thing, it's like it's all of those. Um, and I think that's a case, and it's like so you have to understand the like hundreds or maybe thousands of years history that lead up to this moment to understand the actual conflict that's happening, and then every single country or different portions of the country will have different parts around that, and then how they're persecuting the people are different. So there's a lot to learn. I'm still learning a lot, but it it is fascinating. And then we have stuff happening in America, which is not as bad. Europe is worse, I think.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, um, okay, so four, I mean there's there's so many ways to go from here. Yeah, yeah. But first question, and then that'll lead to my follow-up question. Do you did any of this stem from being in the Dominican Republic and either feeling or seeing Christian persecution?

SPEAKER_00

No, there wasn't really any Christian persecution.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, you never felt that. No, I mean even as a out foreigner.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, no, everyone everyone knew who we were. Okay. Um, like, I don't know. Um Dominicans tease each other, you know, sometimes sometimes they're mean. I mean, just like anyone else. Okay. Um, but no, it never really had anything to do with like religion per se. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um and then I think you know any modern person would hear a Christian persecution. Yeah. And like my first thoughts, especially when you first got into this, kind of just go immediately. Like I first go to biblical times. Like that's that's a phrase that carries thousands of years of history behind it. Yeah. And so modern context of Christian persecution, I hear that, and then I think obviously as a selfish person, I think, okay, what have I experienced as a Christian? It's a persecution. And oh, people online say this about my beliefs and this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we have it so easy. Yeah, talk to me. Here's a specific example. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, there's this guy in in Ireland. Like, okay, sometimes they're like, I'm on these press lists and So people like, you know, these uh these um law firms. Yeah. And I've worked with some of them, they're they're good, they do good work. Um, and they'll like send me, oh, here's like a specific case is happening. Sometimes they're more they're worse than others. Right. But sometimes it's like, you know, sometimes it's like um, oh, they're not letting us like serve the homeless in our community. What's up with that? Or it's like they're not letting us worship at our own church buildings and our own property. Okay. So there's like specific stuff that's like, okay, that should be handled, that's important. But also you get people like, I wanted to protest on the street, but they're telling me to protest on the sidewalk. Okay. It's like, okay, like we're making that Mull Hill where we're distracting from the people actually need the help. Or like in Ireland, there was this guy, I know I don't remember his name. It's like Enecker or something like that. Um, but it was like he was a school teacher who got fired for refusing to teach uh transgender ideology. Okay. Which itself is like, let's have that conversation, right? Um, but then he gets fired for that reason, and then he trespasses back onto the school, gets arrested for trespassing of the school. And then, okay, we'll let you off the warning or something, and then he goes and keeps doing it. And then he he tells, you know, the media, oh, I'm practically getting sentenced to life because they're gonna keep arresting me for doing this thing. It's like, sorry, your Christian rights aren't you can jump into a a school interesting during the hours. Like, there's like no one's stopping to do that. Like, literally do anything else, you know. Like, I don't know, like to act like that's Christian persecution because they're not letting you around children is is kind of crazy. Yeah. Um, and so it's a framing, it just takes away the attention from right, you know, there are people in the UK who are getting arrested for like sharing Bible verses online and stuff. And so, like, why are we focusing on this guy who is just being louder than people? Yes, yeah. We really just need a a loved one to sit him down and be like, listen, like you you have to pick your fights, you know? Right. And I think Jesus taught that a lot as far as like walk the extra mile, turn the other cheek. Yeah. Which is in of itself a form of rebellion. Like focusing on the transgender, should I be fired for this? That's a worthy battle you think you'd fight for. But it's like I should be able to break into a school whenever I want for my Christian beliefs, that's just doesn't really work for me. No, it doesn't track. But then there's like actual stuff happening everywhere else.

SPEAKER_01

Like actual stuff that would, you know, hold a candle to like biblical Christian persecution.

SPEAKER_00

Like if this happened to somebody you knew, or somebody you knew someone who knew somebody who did this, it'd be like the craziest thing that you that you you know of.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Um and and you're saying right now as we speak. And I don't think people disagree with that fact, but I don't it's obviously not talked about enough. Yeah. So with your findings, with your research, what like what would you say is the most important facts to know about modern per like Christian persecution, and then what as Christians, yes, if anything, realistically can we do?

SPEAKER_00

The worst thing to know, or the best thing to know, is what that it's happening. Okay. I think it's really what it comes down to. Uh there's not much you can do. Uh you could find a specific college you want to back up behind. Like I met I'm working with this, uh worked with this guy once a while to quoted him, and um, he's very involved in the Nigeria thing. Okay. Um he he w was the head of this um, still is this this group called Equipping the Persecuted. And just like a missionary goes out and tries to help people. Uh he went to Nigeria, saw that there was a it was a lack of of um news coverage on these attacks, the Christian attacks, which are happening all the time, but the government is only giving kind of a false uh understanding, like, oh, it was armed robbers, but like, okay, who were these armed robbers? What were their motivations? I've seen the videos of these guys executing people, they're like waving ISIS flags and laughing. Like it's it's um, but again, the stuff isn't going out. And so he started this uh group called like uh truth Nigeria, where it's they gets reporters on the ground out there who are covering this stuff and and getting out there. Like again, this is just some random guy from America who just found something, it was an issue, he felt prompted to do it and just went for it. Okay. Most people, I think the best thing you can do, if you want to, if you have extra money donating to groups, okay. Um not not specifically this one, but just in general, yeah. Um, is good. Uh there's definitely better groups than other groups. Um I think just the most important thing you do is just know it's happening. Uh, and then obviously prayer really does go a wrong way. Uh, I know a lot of people don't think that outside of like the like the religious, but we do we know it does. Um so that's I think something we really should be focusing on more.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think, and you and I were talking last night, and I think there is a gap. I forget exactly how you worded it, but we were just chatting, and you said something along the lines of like a lot of modern religious people don't have faith. Yes. And that that to me is very interesting, and I I I agree. And so, where do we like toy the line of and I don't know if this is like shallow of me to talk about like internal like Christian to Christian persecution? Uh-huh. Because obviously that exists, and like each faith comes at each other's throat, and well, this and this and that, and like I mean, that can be a whole subject for another day, and it it seems very not very predictive. Yeah, but where where's the line of like calling out and helping other Christians who claim that, who claim Christ, but there's no faith? Because for somebody to ask, like, how can we help? and to go prayer, I could see somebody being like, Well, no, but like what what can we like actually do? Yeah, and it's like, no, actually, pray.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, actually, prayers actually important. Like, unless you're going to like go to Nigeria and like take up arms, which I'm not telling you to do. Yeah, no one's gonna do that. Um, that's kind of all you can really do. Um, you could support policies. We have we can get into this more if like this is where they kind of know a lot more of like the policies that are taking place. Um, you can vote for that, you can call your senders to kind of act on stuff. So the Nigeria, there's uh there's bills about that and the China stuff um that you can literally just call your senders today and be like, hey, let's get this passed. I don't know how much that actually works. Um because the senders not gonna pick up, it's gonna be some staffer. Right, I probably know some of them, but uh um that's something you could do, but prior prior is obviously way more than than any of that stuff. Like these challenges are are hard, and uh I think when you like again, it's what you're saying, faith. It's like faith is a real thing. Uh having faith for these people will give them the strength that they will not know where it came from. Um, but it it will go a long way. Or faith that the people doing the persecution will have their hearts changed as well. It might be even a little deeper. So interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I'm curious, you being on the front lines of some of this research and just discovering all this, how, what like it's an imposter situation. I still have a lot to learn. But yeah, there's some cases where I like you're young and you're upcoming in this world, and this is a beat you're passionate about in your building. Yes. And I'm curious how that shapes or affects your views on like on the direction Christianity's going. So like you see, you see this the worst part of it you can see, yeah. Like the worst of the negative effects that Christianity has on other people. Um like, do you see what I'm saying? How does that shape you? Do you like have hope?

SPEAKER_00

Do you No? Well, I I hope because hope is in Christ. And so obviously everything's gonna work out for its best. I do think this is gonna get worse. Uh I think it's gonna get worse before it gets a lot better. Um explain that. Well, um just from a lot of it comes from like my own personal convictions as well as uh the just kind of the trends I'm saying. Okay. Um what are you seeing? Like, for example, the Nigeria stuff isn't going away. Um Trump, um, for example, is trying to do stuff about it, but then he like on Christmas Day he launched uh rockets and then hit like five empty filts. Um and so he like clearly the information he was getting was not helpful. Yeah. Um some people suggest that he was given purposely information that would actually help the Falani ethnic militia, which are causing a lot of these things, um, by taking out some of their their competitors or the routes of their competitors. Okay. Um, so it's like that's happening. So like, okay, what what is really being done? Uh you have the force organ harvesting. Uh first it was in in China, right? It's been a lot of the Fulong Gong and the Um Uyghur Muslims, but now it's they're running out of them, so they have to start taking Christians. Um, so I think that's gonna get worse until it gets before it gets better. Um, I don't know, but again, my hope is in Christ, and I think everything is gonna work out. I think um even those who suffer death or worse um from these conflicts will have everything made right in the end. But uh I do think it's getting worse. Interesting. And I and this isn't just like a fear tactic or something. Right I I I genuinely one of the reasons I feel like this is something I'm supposed to be doing now is um when things do get worse, I can help out not like movements, but like people individually and be able to know kind of where they come from and and how to help them out with that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I mean I think at the end of the day, like that is like we have a five-foot circle of influence and people that are closest to us in our lives, and there's nothing wrong with wanting that grand help to put that out in the world and help these causes and all these things. But yes, I I totally agree.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, don't mean to cut you off, but like this is just my thoughts on journalism. I don't know if I'm like the only journalist who feels this way, but I think most journalism is like useless. It's like okay, cool, I can get really impassioned about this topic happening outside the world, and then I can complain about that, I can protest about that, but also like how many homeless people did I walk past coming here? Is there someone in my family or in my like neighborhood who like could really use a call right now? And I'm just kind of focused and enraged about some other topic that I have nothing to do with. Um, so I don't I think that's something I've been really passionate about. Um I think there's an answer, it might take a little longer to find, but like where you can kind of mesh the two.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00

You know, like again, it's good to know what's happening. Okay, like we're national papers, so we want to go over national topics, we covered international stuff too. And but it's like that stuff is less important than like, you know, um, who can I help today? Yeah, you know, I think what's really comes down to. You should know what's going on, you should be an educated voter. Uh I think is really what it comes to. But yeah, I don't know. People get worked up over other issues and ignore the real problems in their life. And again, that happens with this as well. It's like, sure, you should we should know the stuff's happening. That's yeah, literally my job. Like, I'm not gonna say that stuff isn't important, that's that's why we're doing this. Um, but it's like, yeah, how about we uh share the gospel in our like the people around us, yeah, like in our local congregations. That's like probably the most important thing you do for the people in the side of the world, yeah. Um, is to raise up more people in, you know, right? Like the apostles were killed, um, you know, and many other prophets and in the Bible were slaughtered, and um they were willing to do it knowing that it brought other people closer to Christ. Yeah. And again, I'm not gonna say uh, you know, we should let these people die or whatever for for that, but uh it would make it worth it, I think, in the eyes of of them and and God.

SPEAKER_01

I I agree. Um, you're talking about like it not being fear tactics, and one of my first like little shorts I made from this podcast was like talking about the end is near and all this stuff. Yeah, and I wasn't like fear-mongering, I was just like, no, no, this is reality.

SPEAKER_00

We know Christ is coming back, you know, things are gonna get worse. But people are gonna get better.

SPEAKER_01

I agree, and I I think somebody um close to me was this was a few months ago, but they were saying, like, um, it's not that the world is gonna get much worse, we're just not good enough yet. Like, Christ's followers aren't the world's also gonna get worse. But it's not that it has to, I think is that. Yeah, that that was like the point was like we we're not waiting for the world to get to like a certain level of wickedness. No, we're no longer like we're already it's already bad enough. Yeah. And I I'm an optimist. Like, I I truly like I live my day-to-day life happy, I like glass half full, all that, rose colored glasses. But I'm not naive to like there's real things, there's real wickedness out there. There's crazy stuff with trafficking, there's persecution, there's all these terrible things. But I I just think as Christians, there's a responsibility to be way better.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like individually and collectively as a whole. Like, we spend a lot of energy going at each other. Yeah, we spend a lot of energy, just there's so much fluff, and again, it's the religious fluff. Yeah, but whereas like the actual faith that's happening that's changing people's lives. Um, I wanted to ask you if Christ was a journalist, he wouldn't be a journalist.

SPEAKER_00

Christ would uh Christ would he'd hang out with the public and the sinners, he wouldn't hang out with the journalist. There's a there's a quote, let me get to your question. It's uh deep down every journalist knows what they do is morally indefensible. That's totally true. Okay, it's yeah, it's it's the worst. Uh I love I love where I work, I love what I do, but it's journalism itself. It's yeah, um, it's not a godly profession. No, I think there's there's attributes. I think it can be. That's kind of my goal is I'm gonna figure out how to do that. Um, I don't know, like you you need news, you know, you need you do, but it's like, okay, how do we kind of what I was saying earlier, it was part of that like not, you know, a lot of a lot of news is like things are so terrible. Click our click this so we can uh get more more views and add revenue. Um or this is why you should hit your neighbor. But I think there's a a balance that could be struck. And I think other people are trying that, but that's kind of what I want to dedicate my life to figuring out. That's beautiful. Anyways, what were you saying?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just if if Christ was a journalist, how how would he and I mean that goes to what you're saying, like how would he go about it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think well, in a sense you could say I don't say Christ is a journalist, but that sounds like very pretentious. Yeah, this is hypothetical and yeah, you know, we're just no, I'm just saying, well, it's like, you know, in a sense, um, I don't know, God Christ goes around and talks to people and then says what's happening. Right. There's there's a bit of journalism in that. Um obviously, you know, he's not like his his main source is God, so that's that's kind of helpful. That helps, yeah. Yeah, why I'm like uh here's a Somali official that I can cite. That's cool, that's great, but it's it's not the same thing. Um I don't know. I I think it's kind of what I was saying, which is like, and again, I'm I I haven't figured this out yet, and I have my whole life to figure it out, but I like personally want to find a way to to balance that. Um, you know, especially media is such a changing landscape. Yeah, you know, like people are like, I want to be the next Walter Conkrite. You can't because the system isn't created for that anymore. Um it's like okay, well then I should be like, I don't know, the next like Tucker Carlson. It's like, okay, well, who knows what it's gonna look like in five years. You know, it's like you have to find out what is happening and kind of roll with that. And you have to try to so it's like one of the reasons I love love journalism is I'm very principle focused. So I like instead of like I don't really do hypotheticals, like, oh, here's like exactly in this exact situation. It's okay, let's find a principle of truth, like eternal truth, and then how do you apply that? And with journalism, it's very both in what you cover and in the process of journalism, it's very like nuanced, right? Everything is black and white, I think from God's perspective, but for us, it's gonna be great because we don't have that understanding that discernment he has. And so, okay, that's what Christ does really well. Christ isn't just perfect, he's perfect living amongst the imperfect, living in a fallen world. Yeah, and so trying to do that within a fallen world, within a fallen system, is I think so motivating. Because that's only my life. Like, okay, journalism is very fallen, the world is very fallen, we're covering this stuff, but how do we do that in a way that is uh following these eternal principles? I don't know if that makes sense. But it does, yeah. So it's like, you know, there's like the idea of like journalistic ethics. I hate the idea of ethics, I think it's dumb. Um, but I think journalistic principles is I think the more important thing. Superior. Which is based off of just eternal principles, but like how do you apply it to the field of journalism? Okay. Rather than random ethical models that you could apply and then often just lead to, like, I took an ethics class in college. It was postmodernist, just in general, it's like ethics and diversity. Yeah. Uh Christian school, by the way. Uh and every week we'd have like a new lesson, a new ethical model we're supposed to study, and I would always study it. And then you were like, go over it in class for like five minutes, like, okay, what are your thoughts? I'd always put my hand first and be like, uh, here's why this is bad. This is why this is like neo-Marxist, postmodernist, and why implementing a mass scale would lead to the deaths of millions of people. And that's that's how I started like every single class discussion. I'm sure you got everyone just would like to do that. It was great. Yeah, met one of my best friends that way, actually. So it was good. It was good. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think principle focus is what Christ does, is what he taught.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and that's what he did in his life. Like, um, something's going on tangent here, but for example, uh, the Sabbath day, you know, he's like they're feeding the grain on the Sabbath, you know, they're like, oh, you can't do it on the Sabbath. It's like, well, man is made for the Sabbath, not the Sabbath's for the man. Now I'm all about keeping the Sabbath day holy, but it's like, you know, my brother needs to go to the hospital, I'm taking him to the hospital, you know. Like there's these principles and things that are higher than others. Yeah. And I think the part of the probationary state of the challenge of life is to learn and grow and find out how to do that. I think it's a test allowing us to show, okay, if we can make these challenges, you know, within these hard systems, we can make the right decision, or at least try to make the right decision. We're showing God that we can be given more more of that in the future. Beautiful. Yeah. I don't have much to add to that.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's very well said.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I do, but I also add if there's more you want to add. One little thing. It's like like time, for example, I think is a good example of this. Like um, you know, it's like, okay, well. Like being a steward of time. In general, yeah. Like, um, for example, is God outside of time? I I have my thoughts on this, I think technically no. But um for all intents and purposes, kind of, at least not the way we see it. But it's like the reason we have time that moves forward and not backwards, whatever, is it forces us to make a decision. Because like if you didn't have time, you were just kind of outside of time, then it's like, okay, well, you can just not make a decision.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But with time, not making a decision is therefore the decision. It forces us to like move and act rather than just being idle the whole time. And then when we return to God's presence and we're no longer in time as we see it now, we've already shown that we can be trusted with that because we're we will be making the right decisions by choice rather than just being wait, waited to t being waiting around and being told what to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I agree. Well, and that's been on my mind lately, like doing things out of a love for God versus like a I should. Yeah. I'm supposed to. And I think I think it's okay for a while to do things like like if you have to be compelled to do something, that's better than not doing it, but it's not the highest way to do it. It's not the best principle to operate by because at some point that'll break.

SPEAKER_00

What's the best principle?

SPEAKER_01

To do it out of love for God. Yeah, I totally agree. Like, like it has to be it has to be completely self-generated within you because that's the only thing that's sustainable. I agree.

SPEAKER_00

I think duty is you're saying a good start. Yeah. I think it's better than selfish motivations. Right. Um, but obviously the end goal is love of God and fellow man. Yeah. That's that should be your motivation for everything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There there's there's nothing that is outside of that. Right. Uh you shouldn't do anything for yourself. You should be for your love of God, which is the love of the values that make up God as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And the love of his children.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Well, and that I mean, therein lies, I mean, that carried Christ through the cross, yeah. Through the atonement.

SPEAKER_00

Paul taught that. It was his strictly love. It was his love and his uh knowledge that we would obtain joy through his sacrifice that got him through that.

SPEAKER_01

And I think, I mean, even if even if nobody, if 100% of the human race all rejected Christ would have gone through with it. Yeah. I I don't I don't see a principle that would point otherwise. And that's like a heavy thought to think about because it's like, well, because back to what you said, yeah, he's operating on a principle. He's operating on love and not like a result of this. Yeah. He's not seeking validation, he's not seeking a result. And we do as humans. Yeah. So the question is, how do we shift from wanting that naturally? I think that's in us, like we're reward mechanistic creatures. We we want to like exert effort and receive reward. But I always ask the question, like, what if you go your whole life without receiving, and you will receive blessings from God, but like like a Job situation where you're just screwed.

SPEAKER_00

But of course we know how that works out for Job. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01

But like let's say Job situation, but indefinite, and like in mortality, he never saw. Yeah, he never saw fruits of what he went through. Well, that's why having internal mindset helps.

SPEAKER_00

Like, we know at the end of the day it will it will work out. Yeah. Um it's hard though. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard to know that. The unknown of like it's it's hard to be faithful in the unknown. I think for I mean for me it's been hard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's something that's not that's not really something I've ever struggled with. I've always known, you know, like there's like got to a point where I like received a spiritual confirmation, but like I've always just known, I don't know. Known that things will just pan out. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you're okay. So if things panning out is defined by A, B, and C happening in your life. Uh-huh. If A, B, and C were to happen in a year versus 60 years.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I would Do you would would you go through an emotional are you at a place where you I'm sure I'm sure there'd be a little bit of that, but like it's it's just like I don't know, like I I have an idea of kind of what I want to do with my life. Right. And I have, again, these principles I'm trying to aim towards, like having a family or what I want to do with my career. But like, it's just up, it's up to God. And I know that if it doesn't work out, then it's gonna be fine. Marriage, for some example, is something that's kind of hard. Like, my brother was married with three kids at this point. Right. And I figured I would be too, or at least somewhere similar. But that's been it's been a little hard, but it's like I've kind of got into the mindset recently, which is like I'm supposed to be single right now. Like, I'm obviously putting in the work, going on dates. And stuff. Um, but the time will come, it'll be fine in the meantime. And I gotta I'm I've got to continue putting the work, but in the meantime, it's like I wouldn't be where I was now and be having the experiences I have now if I was married. Right. Again, I think you have to attach those things to people and be like, oh, don't worry about your career, go focus, or don't worry about getting married, go focus on your career. Like, that's not what I'm saying. In the meantime, I'm gonna go put myself in dangerous situations. My wife wouldn't let me do otherwise. You know? Um, like I want to go to Syria. It's like I'm one of my buddies like my wife would say no, like we're not doing that. Um gotcha. But you know, I can.

SPEAKER_01

True. And you should. I want to go do it and survive it, please. And come back. I see influencers go all the time. It seems super safe. Probably is. Yeah, I'm sure you'd be just fine. Just don't take that as like advice and go to Syria and play. No, this isn't this isn't advice.

SPEAKER_00

But I do want to go.

SPEAKER_01

Um That'd be cool. Yeah. That'd be cool. Um, yeah, there's obviously a lot, and you you've shared some great things. How would you bow tie Derek Van Buskirk's faith? Well. I need you to explain that question a bit more. Like how you've been through, you've had a dynamic life. We were raised in the same place, so like I know a bit more about that. You served two years, you've come home, you've now dedicated a life to trying to do this essentially something that's never been done with reporting with journalism, with There's been a lot of good reporting, but I I have plans I wouldn't tackle and wait other people want to do that. Right, and and I we've talked about lofty dreams and goals and visions, and I think more Christians need loftier dreams and goals and visions and to work on executing those. Yeah. Because it's ultimately for the benefit of mankind, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Which involves Christians really good at living not of the world, but we can do a lot better about living in the world.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Um, so with your dreams and goals and aspirations in mind, like what what are the principles you now live by to close us out with that are taking you that way?

SPEAKER_00

Just to name like off the top of your head, what are some I think truth is obviously the highest, but it has to be tied in with virtue. So a lot of people just kind of so like a truth. Yeah, you know, which is really just an excuse to be a a jerk sometimes. It's like I'm just being honest. It's like, well, there's nothing, you know, inherently virtuous about just saying the truth. It has to be tied with virtue, you know. Like Satan knows a lot, you know, no one's gonna say he doesn't, but like there's no virtue tied to that. Um, I think God's uh glory comes from equal parts, truth and virtue. He's he's both all powerful and all-knowing, and all just, you know, are um, and I think that's what matters. So um, yeah, if I could, if I could uh I always thought like if I if I would never write my own book, again, I haven't done anything worthwhile. And even if I did, it's like it's it's just something weird about that, like naming a son after yourself or something. Um by grand kids want to name their son after me, whatever. That that's that's fine. Yeah, but um if I ever did a book named after me or whatever, like I was like, uh I think the coolest name would be like in defense of truth and virtue. Like that's how I want to be remembered is like someone who not only defended truth as a journalist, but also defended virtue, both as a journalist and as a follower of Christ. Wow. Um and I think those things together, because it's like, you know, um just going out and sharing the gospel, um, like yelling at people in the streets, like you see these street preachers do that, or you know, condemning people to hell online, that's not helpful. It has to be followed with love. It has to be not just followed with love, it has to be embedded with love into that. Um, we should be inviting people to change and to repent, but it has to come from a place of charity uh and and virtue, I think, from all from all aspects.

SPEAKER_01

Derek Van Buskirk, defender of truth and virtue. Thank you. That was beautifully said. Appreciate you being here today.

SPEAKER_00

No worries. I won't do that. There you go. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Love you, dude. Love you to do it.