Part 2 | No Falls Week 2026 | Changing the culture around work at height

Part two of our No Falls Week miniseries 'Changing the culture around work at height'. 

Falls from height remain the leading cause of workplace fatalities in the UK. Latest figures from the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) show that 35 people lost their lives at work due to a fall from height in 2024/25. 

In this special No Falls Week episode, host Nick Marshall is joined by No Falls Foundation Trustee, Kelly Nicoll to explore why falls from height still happen in the workplace, how safety culture must evolve and the role of No Falls Week in driving industry change. 

Expect to hear more about: 

• The origin of the No Falls Foundation 
• How reduced investigation affects prevention and learning 
• Why falls still happen despite regulation, training and equipment 
• Which sectors face the highest risk 
• The power of personal stories in humanising the issue and changing behaviour 
• How organisations can support No Falls Week 

Thank you for listening to Omega Red's podcast. All information was accurate at the time of recording.

Omega Red is a UK market leader in lightning protection, height safety, earthing and surge protection.

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Transcript

Reaching The Self-Employed

Nick Marshall 0:12

You mentioned right at the start about uh the number of companies that are engaging with with another follow over five thousand, but I think then we're talking about then the probably the self-employed are are hard to get to, and we've used that word communication a few times. So, how do you think we we we get the better lines of communication with them to to get our messages to to land to those individuals? Is it TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat? Because you've got a younger end, but also you've got an older end of people that are probably they've done that job. Well, why do I need protection now? I've done this job. But then if I'm taking on some some new people into the business, do I then pass on those those bad habits time? Because you just got you don't need that, just look, I'm living, I'm living proof as. How do you think we get to those

Social Media As Safety Training

Nick Marshall 0:55

individuals?

Kelly Nicoll 0:55

I think it's really interesting, and quite frankly, if a TikTok, you know, if somebody getting on TikTok and demonstrating how to use a harness properly and how to clip on is the difference between somebody paying attention to it and not flood TikTok with it, flood Insta, flood Snapchat, etc. Like any method of communication. And as health and safety professionals, we are generally really good at changing the way we communicate depending on the audience. Yeah. The way I talk to my board is very different from the way I talk to my finance team, is very, very different to the way I would talk to a lifeguard or an usher. Um and and that we need to become really adept. Yeah.

Listen First, Then Help

Kelly Nicoll 1:41

And I think one of the really important things is actually listening to people, going to forums that they already are in, going to, I don't know, um local chambers, going to business chambers, going to business forums, SME forums, and actually listening to them. And it goes back to curiosity rather than judgment. How can I help? Because actually what we do as health and safety people is we help businesses become more effective, more efficient, and and we make we help them become more successful. So coming at it from that direction of what I can do is help you be more or have your business more successful, bring in more clients, be more efficient, being at, you know, retain that your staff rather than losing staff hand over fist or you know, having people leave you for bigger jobs or whatever. Like I can help you grow that just through health and safety. And it's really simple and really straightforward. It just creates it it requires a little bit of front-end investment in training and time and coaching and making sure that you've got somebody with the best version of your staff. Um, and that will pay dividends um further on down the line. But yeah, like an awful lot of SMEs, they don't they don't come to the big conferences, they don't come to the big exhibitions that an awful lot of us are at. Um, so it's meeting people where they're at is really, really important. And yeah, if you need to do a TikTok dance in order to convince people.

Nick Marshall 3:26

You haven't seen m y dancing. No, nobody wants to see a dad dance do they though, but I'll uh I might put that in my back pocket and uh take some take some dancing lessons.

Kelly Nicoll 3:34

Desperate times.

Nick Marshall 3:35

Exactly, yeah. It will be desperate, believe me. So we've touched on then the culture side of it, so I think that that's massive isn't it, but it's one big thing that the the foundation is trying to make sure that the the the that they drive out the the educational piece and really get more advocates out there to to challenge. So if you look at some of the behavioural safety aspects of of what people do in this day and age, is that advanced further, do you think, nowadays, or is there still work there that we need to think about the the behavioural safety and how we bring that down a level to probably to that to that self-employed ?

Kelly Nicoll 4:10

Oh.

Behaviour, Beliefs, And Purpose At Work

Kelly Nicoll 4:11 Nick Marshall 4:11

It's another deep question.

Kelly Nicoll 4:13

It's another podcast episode, that one. Um behavioural safety is really essential. Yeah. Is understanding what makes people tick, understanding what people's drivers are, understanding why people come to work, um, and understanding that that might not be the same for every everybody. Um there was a fast there was a fascinating um panel that I was had the honour of of chairing whilst I was in uh a health and safety conference in in Japan last year, um, where somebody talked about the purpose of work. Yeah. And actually, if you understand your purpose within the work that you do, it's um it's the new it's the guy, it's the uh really old story of the new CEO of NASA walks through and he meets one of the cleaners and the cleaner's mopping the floor and he asks the cleaner, what are you doing? And he's and his his the cleaner's response is, I'm helping put a man on the moon. Like that is it's that if everybody, if you know what part you have to play in whatever business it is, um, that that is a really strong vision, it's a really strong mission, and that those values are carried by leadership, it becomes really, really easy. But we've been talking about behavioural safety for a really long time that's started to dip into mental, you know, the importance of mental health and well-being, and we've still got so, so far to go on that. Um, you know, particularly in male heavy industries, um, particularly, you know, with this rise of toxic masculinity and the manosphere and all of that kind of stuff, like we are still, we're still having the same conversations.

Nick Marshall 6:09

It's about working those people's beliefs into so like you've got the beliefs which drives your value say your value share drive your attitude, and your attitude drive your end behaviour, do n't they. So it's about how do we start to unpack some of those areas to say, but where's that belief come from? If I've been working with someone for for a period of time that's been working as a scaffold and have always done that, well, guess what? I'm gonna have the same belief as that individual. Because I come in and go, well, Dave's alright, he's been doing that job for 30 years, nothing's happened to him. So why would I want to be putting a harness on now? And it's we need to break that down so those individuals go, but do I share those same beliefs? And that's why we need more advocates.

Kelly Nicoll 6:47

Oh, of course we do. And the more it's the say it's it's the same thing over and over again. The more we talk about something, the more we shed a light on something, the the better it becomes. It it's painful. Asking people to change their behaviours are is really, really difficult. You know, we had that difficulty, you know, if you're a health and safety geek and a safety nerd like I am, you know, we had a huge behavioural shift when the safety, when the car safety belt was introduced and the pressure that what what the campaign started to do was that positive peer pressure. And they actually targeted the this targeted children initially of going, you tell mum and dad that you're not letting them, you can't drive the car until your safety, until your belt's on. Um, and then that starts to shift and it just becomes it's normal now. Of course, you put your seatbelt on when you get in the car.

Nick Marshall 7:46

I'm just thinking about that now. You've now evoked to memory my brain in regards to the the advert and clunk click. Yeah. And it's just as you were saying, I'm like, yeah, clunk click. But God, how long ago was that that advert where it just shows that through the messaging, through working on kind of the the emotional side of it to get people to really think, there's there's things that have resonated and and and stopped within the mind, and that's probably a back, and as soon as you said that were like clunk click. Clunk click. Yeah, yeah.

Stories That Change Habits

Kelly Nicoll 8:14

And and I think that's the thing with you know, with advocates, um, particularly those who have survived um falls, you know, one of the most famous is obviously Jason Anker, um, and and he speaks incredibly eloquently and um incredibly it's an it's an incredibly heartbreaking story. Um and it's not we don't just have Jason, we have a number of others. Um, you know, and I I remember listening to one of one of the stories, um, and I'm so glad it was on. It was so glad I'm so glad it was on a non-recorded webinar because I think for the first time in a very, very long time, I had to turn my camera off because it oh, did it get me. And actually it wasn't just the it wasn't just the the story of what had happened, it was the fact that you could see it coming. Do you know like you yeah, you could see it coming and hindsight's 2020 and all of that, but you could understand that it it was something it was just you could see it happening, and this was this was a business owner who simply did not care. And then you find out that he'd done it elsewhere, he'd done it elsewhere and done it to other people, and and then and I think that's the bit of it's that the kind of sense of justice and that absolute kind of this should never have happened. It should it it's bad enough that it happened once, but then for somebody to not have learnt from that and continue to treat their staff that way was yeah,

Nick Marshall 9:59

Goes back to values doesn't it because you know that that's something that's happened in a past life. If you can carry on doing that, then that says a lot about you as the individual, which is and that there are people out there, and they're that's where we need to educate, where people can then come back and challenge those individuals going. I I I've seen things, I've been educated here, and I'm coming from a power of strength.

Risk Perception Across Generations

Nick Marshall 10:21

And I suppose it leads me on to that next question about kind of risk perception as well, isn't it? Is that how do we start to really help people in that risk perception? Because my level of risk to your level of risk, we might be seeing things in totally different way, and so I'll go if someone tells me rather than go, woo woo, woo, woo. Let's get some of those alarm bells going, first of all. So what have you seen within your career around kind of risk perception of the work that's being done?

Kelly Nicoll 10:43

I think it's really interesting because I think we've alluded it to it to it a couple of times. You've had you've got you've got people who've been doing the job for 30, 40 years, and everything nothing's ever happened to me, and everything's fine, and you know, you stop with all of this noisy health and safety stuff. Um, and then you have your your newbies, your your new entrants who don't tend to know any better and are very eager to learn and very eager to just say yes so that they can keep their job. But actually, what's incredibly interesting with Gen Z is that they are an awful lot more educated. They are an awful lot more aware, and they are, you know, us millennials who are, you know, old now, um we're probably mature, yeah. I wouldn't say mature either, just older, older, yeah, not necessarily wiser. But we, you know, we're probably the last generation where that social contract was drilled in. You go to school, you do good at school, you go to uni, you get a good job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Gen Z are very, very comfortable with going, no, very, very comfortable with going, your values do not align with mine. I'm off to go find something else. And I think that's a real shock to the system for an awful lot of people who are, but I've been doing it for four years, and there's nothing wrong with that. And somebody else comes in and goes, What on earth? How on earth are you doing this? This isn't okay.

Nick Marshall 12:16

Bit of a truth mirror isn't it at that point in time is oh, yeah.

Kelly Nicoll 12:21

And that's very uncomfortable for people who are older and more more experienced because they've been doing it for that long, like that, and you know, of of and who are you to come in at 21 or even you know 16 and tell me that I've been doing it wrong? And that's a really big challenge.

Teaching People To Stop And Check

Kelly Nicoll 12:42

But harnessing so when I when I used to do um when I used to work for a broadcast company, um, we would spend a whole week, it was a whole week of induction for all of our new starters, and they spend a whole day with me. And they were all either placement students, so kind of halfway through their university um courses, or they were fresh out of uni, hadn't really seen the world, and I was the health and safety department. We worked in 190 different countries 365 days a year. We delivered, you know, sports officiating to tens of thousands of sporting events um across the entire world. I can't be everywhere all at the same time. Unfortunately, I'm not that good. Um so my job on my day with them was to instill this idea that actually if something doesn't feel right in your gut, stop, figure it out, and then move forward. And I mean, we'd spend the first 45 minutes telling every uh discussing why health and safety is terrible and awful, and then we flipped it all around and we had that really important conversation. And we'd go through the technical stuff and the working at height and and all you know, and and we'd obviously we'd had some we had a very bad experience where one of our placement students died from a fall from height. And

When A Fall Changes Everything

Kelly Nicoll 14:15

uh and that was horrific. Um and the ripple effect that that had across the business. Um the the trauma that that created from those of us that you know just went to the coroner's and heard the extensively long list of injuries and knowing that he was his you know, his brother had worked for us and um like I didn't ever want to be in that position again. Yeah. Like never. Um and

Nick Marshall 14:54

You can tell that. Obviously I'm close to you, and I can see you you tearing up and because you've been through an experience, you've you've felt every single emotion. So that's yeah, and that's what people need to understand when they are taking those actions, is you might have gone, but think about everyone else that you leave in the way. Someone's gonna have to have that question of why, why has it happened, how could it, how it could have been stopped? And there's probably loads of areas that it could have been stopped.

Kelly Nicoll 15:22

And and you kind of realize that you know, and having been through an a a number of kind of whether it's eHO or H you know, HSE visits, etc., like they are awful. They're really awful. Even if you're like, yeah, here's all my paper, here's all my evidence, here's absolutely everything, here's my risk assessment, i if every every single I is dotted and T is crossed, they are still really awful experiences to go through. And if you care about the people you work with, you do, whether it whether it's right or wrong, you feel responsible. You feel accountable for it. Um you know it but we we used that story within that business not to scare not to scare people who are joining us, but actually to say this is this is actually the reality. This is the reality of what yes, it's all shiny and exciting and brilliant, and you get to travel the world and see amazing things, but there is also a risk that you could not come home.

Nick Marshall 16:31

So don't get distracted from the risk is that you think about the country and where you go and live your life rather than actually um

Kelly Nicoll 16:37

When it comes to that bit, if you cannot put everything else in a box and just focus on that, I would rather you not do it. Yeah.

Nick Marshall 16:46

And it goes back to the example about not clipping on and the ninth camera.

Kelly Nicoll 16:50

Yeah.

Nick Marshall 16:51

Something there you've been having great working practice for the first day, and that's that that one time that could have been the time when danger not sleeping, and something happened. Yeah, absolutely. That that individual was safe at that point in time, but you you do probably sit there and go, Oh my god, with with yeah, because that takes you back to then memories of past.

Kelly Nicoll 17:10

Yeah. Um, I mean we call them, we used to call them 'oh s**t' moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, those mo uh or as I used to say to the the guys, is um the moments that you're not gonna tell your mum about. Yeah. Do you know those those things of like we're not gonna tell mum, we've got away with it, it's fine. I was like, those are the bits that I want to know about.

Nick Marshall 17:31

Exactly. And that stuff comes back to the culture, isn't it?

Near Misses, Learning, And Accountability

Nick Marshall 17:34

About really game, listen, yeah, something's happened, but we need to understand where those points of failure have happened because we need to change that and we need to speak them. It's not about kind of chastising you, it's about saying, that's great, but this is about making sure we can have an adult conversation that goes, we can learn from it. And I think sometimes people feel of this is disciplinary, this is me, I have a job. But how many times is that happening? And we've got to say, let's let's have an adult conversation because goes back to what you say right at the start, and we need to go home safely, and what can we learn and draw a line under it? But we know tomorrow we are working far more safer than we were yesterday. Yeah, and that's not such a compelling, compelling reason to change into it.

Kelly Nicoll 18:15

Absolutely, and and I think that's the thing is those story those stories really fuel it, yeah. They really, really do. They um you know Jason's story sticks with me. Um, you know, all of those stories.