Ep. 15 | When Love Feels Like Management with Julie Tran

What happens when the skills that make you successful in business start showing up in your relationship?

In this episode, I sit down with Julie Tran to explore a dynamic that many ambitious women experience but rarely talk about openly: the tendency to manage, direct, or carry more than our share within our relationships.

We dive into why high-achieving women often find themselves taking on the role of manager instead of partner, what this pattern can look like in everyday life, and how it can slowly create distance, resentment, and disconnection in a marriage.

This conversation isn't about blame. It's about awareness. It's about understanding the difference between leadership and control, support and responsibility, and what becomes possible when both people are allowed to fully own their role within the relationship.

If you've ever felt exhausted from carrying the mental load, frustrated that your partner isn't stepping up the way you hoped, or curious about how to create a healthier dynamic without micromanaging the people you love, this episode is for you.

Connect with Julie Tran

Instagram: @iamjulietran

Website: www.gooeylove.co
Book Info: https://atigbranding.myflodesk.com/supporttheauthors

Connect with Sarah Nicole + The Legacy Edit

Follow along on Instagram: @sarahnicolecreative
For inquiries, collaborations, or support: hello@sarahnicolecreative.com

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Sarah Nicole is the founder of Sarah Nicole Creative, where photography, strategy, and community intersect.
Details on current offerings, memberships, sessions, and events can be found through the links in the show notes, on Instagram, or on my website below;

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The Legacy Edit is a podcast about identity, healing, leadership, and building a life that actually fits.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Legacy Edit Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicole, and today we have a special guest on to talk all things relationships and business. So I'm gonna let her introduce herself. So, Julie, if you want to take a second, um, just let us know who you are, what it is that you do, um, and how you got into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Absolutely. Hello, everyone. My name is Julie Tran. I'm a marriage mentor for coaches, for healers, for women entrepreneurs, and I help women activate um or reclaim, I should say, their power to inspire their partners to lead, inspire the partners to rise, and really take their relationship from um kind of like drifting to um what I call distance and disconnection to back to best being best friends again. But here's the thing it's without him necessarily doing the work alongside you. So that's what I do. And I got started in this work because of my own um personal struggles in my relationship. Um, I'm your classic uh high achieving, um, ambitious corporate, you know, climber. And I did really well in corporate. But um when I, you know, all the tools that I learned to excel in corporate, and even after corporate, when I was, when I got into uh personal development and when I had my awakenings and everything, all the tools that I applied to my life and to my business, I tried to apply to my husband as well. And I just got so frustrated because he wasn't, um, it wasn't the the word interesting comes to mind, but it wasn't that. He, it just wasn't his thing, you know, and it caused over time it it caused major resentments in our relationship to the point I see you nodding, and I know a lot of people in your audience are probably nodding too because they get the pain, because we love our partners and we really want them to come on board with us. We really want them to have similar transformations with uh as we did, especially the part about you know, releasing the victim mindset, right? And being your own, your your own um hero of your story, being a conscious creator of your life. And you want to co-create a life with your partner together. But when they are not on board and when they even like view, view this work or even working on your relationship as something that's not for them, something that they don't believe in, it can really create a ton of resentment in your relationship to the point where you get to a place like I did, where we were on the brink of divorce, and I was like, How did we get here? How did we go from being best friends before honeymoon stage to this place where I can barely be in the same room with you? And so um, couples therapy was not an option. And I almost gave up on my marriage. But the day that I chose to go all in on the marriage and decided that I was gonna take 100% responsibility on how I showed up in the relationship, that was the day that everything changed in our marriage. And that was a day where he showed up differently. He started to show up differently as well. And so that's why I do what I do. Um, I think that there is, there are so many women out there who um are stuck like I was, feeling like um they, you know, getting support isn't an option. And um, but then they they're just kind of like feeling uh disappointed in their relationship and they don't have a choice. They're kind of just in this middle of like, oh, I want more, but I can't have more. And I feel so sad about that. And I just want women to know that there is another way. And in fact, this way um is I personally think that it is such a powerful path to reclaim your power because you're no longer dependent on your husband changing or doing anything different for you to be in love in your relationship. And that doesn't mean that you're just accepting or condoning behaviors that are not healthy, but he is just going to naturally respond differently to you. And that is where the source of your power is. And I'm so passionate about helping women reclaim that.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

A lot of ambitious women are, you know, we are incredible leaders in our businesses, but it's that same skill set can really quickly turn into control at home. And I'm curious to know your thoughts on how do women know when they're actually supporting their partner versus managing him, right? Because we're so used to managing everything at the office or in our business. How can we kind of notice that point where we start to get to managing versus supporting?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Mm-hmm. I think managing, because there's so many different ways that we can be managing, right? Um I would say, like at a very like day-to-day mundane level, right? I I'll give you an example of one of my clients who um when she first joined my universe, she was struggling with things like asking him to help her with a diaper. And it would erupt into a power struggle, and he'd be like, you know, like um, I can't do anything right anyway. And so, and she's like, What are you talking about? And and then suddenly the baby's crying, she's crying, like everybody he throws up his hands, and it's like, and she felt so completely unsupported, like and she and and she is looking at that, right? And she's like, What's wrong with this? You know, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you supporting me? So there are ways that we try to manage by trying to get him to support us the way that we think that we need to be supported. And I would say in situations like that, um, this is one of the biggest things that I teach is learning how to express yourself, express your wants and needs in a way that's true for you, and in a way that he can actually hear you. Because in that example itself, for the average person, they would probably be like, okay, he's he is unsupportive and he's a jerk, you should leave him, right? But what, yeah, and it's understandable on the face of it, but the work that I do takes you deeper. Because what is it about about how you're expressing it that's having him respond that way? When I hear that, I hear she's been micromanaging him. He doesn't feel like he can actually do anything right. So then he just gives up, which is a very common pattern. I saw that in my relationship with my husband as well. You know, I would try to, I would ask him to like plan date nights, and he's like, he's like, you're never gonna be satisfied with anything I do. Any restaurant I pick, because every restaurant he picked, I would veto it and I would pick another one, you know. So eventually he just gave up. But when I gave him a chance to lead, right, and I just uh and I was grateful for the fact that he picked a restaurant. And even if it wasn't like, you know, the creme de la creme, like exactly Julie's vibe, right? I was still grateful. And with that type of attitude, right, and being sincerely grateful for his efforts, eventually he started to really want to tune into what I wanted. And now the way he picks restaurants, I'm like, you got it. Like you hit the like I have no feedback. You you did so good. You're picking restaurants that are better than what I could pick. You know what I mean? And so, um, and even for my client, you know, uh after learning the tools and the and my process, she's like, oh my God, like literally night and day, I cannot believe that I just got that response from him. I cannot believe how supportive he was. So I would say first to answer your question, like you got to start just working on yourself and taking responsibility for your energy and how you're expressing. Are you coming from a place of control, of blame, of judgment? And if so, it's your responsibility to clean that up first. Now, when you have done the work, right, and it takes time, it's not a one-time thing, right? It's not a one-week thing. It is an ongoing, it's an ongoing um revelation about yourself, unpeeling of the onion. And when you know that you've done, you've done, you've you've continued to peel the onion, you've continued to do the work on yourself, and he's still not responding to you, then maybe that could be a time where you re-evaluate. You know, you're inviting him to rise and he's showing you that maybe he's not, he doesn't have the capacity for it, or maybe he's not choosing you, or for whatever reason, he's not available for it. Then you get to make the choice, you know, in your own sovereignty on what to do next. But at least you did the work.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah. No, I want to touch on a couple things that you said because it really got me thinking. So, first of all, I want to say that, you know, I love you picked up on me kind of like smiling at when you were like, oh, most people would say I leave, right? Because as somebody who's been an abuse survivor, like that was my initial instinct after I started dating again, after leaving an abusive relationship, right? So I love how you acknowledge that like if you're doing these things and they're still not rising, like that might be the time to reevaluate. Like there might be something deeper. Um, but I love that, you know, I feel like most people nowadays, especially people who have been through really tough situations or abuse who haven't done the work on themselves, their first instinct is to leave. Their first instinct is to say, Well, they're not gonna change. This isn't gonna work. And I really love that you focus on really doing all the things in yourself to to see how you're like what your responsibility is and what your part is in that situation. Like, I really I love that so much.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, thank you. Um, I think it's just so important. And then I also like love this nuance to it too, because I hear what a lot of people talk about, whether they're in a marriage or just with their family, it's just relationships in general. I hear this phrase a lot, like I've done everything on my power, there's nothing else I can do, right? And every time I would hear that phrase, something didn't feel right to me. And one day I had this like light bulb moment that because to me it felt inaccurate because your power expands when your capacity expands.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Okay. So you're it's not that you have done everything in your power, you've done everything in your capacity. And the question for you is are you willing to expand your capacity? Because that's what it takes. Relationship dynamics are very, it can be very complex, especially if there's a lot of trauma and um stuff in your childhood that's been uh uh neglect in your childhood, emotional, physical, physical, all the things, right? Uh, that lives in your body. And it can create, it can wreak havoc in the relationship if neither one of you guys have done the work. And so uh the thing is that when it comes to marriage, the the manifestation tools that you learn outside of relationships, like for your business, for example, right? Wonderful, love it, but it doesn't always apply in your relationship. When in your relationship, it requires very specific and customized um ways of being, polarity, right? Um, nervous system recalibration, co-regulation, um, how you clean your energy, how you engage in a conversation where your partner matters just as much as you, and how you work together as a team and holding that at the altar, right? There is getting real honest about the beliefs you have about your husband. There's uh energy cleanup, right? I could say, can you just get me the diaper? Or there's all this like loaded energy, right? Like, or I could just say, Can you get me the diaper with like one eyebrow raise? And there's all this loaded energy, even if you're trying to be kind. But underneath there's baggage, there's bags and bags and bags, suitcase and suitcase and suitcases of your unprocessed wounds that you're bringing to that moment. And yes, you've done everything that you have in your power, but really you've done everything in your power based on the capacity you have at the time. The question really is: are you willing to expand your capacity and dive into this world of how to have a healthy, loving, sustainable, gooey love type of relationship? I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Honestly, like the more you talk, the more I'm like, I cannot wait for our call next week. Oh, because I have so much. So literally the second that we get off of this recording, I'm gonna be posting a video that I recorded today where thankfully, because I've I've done the work, like I catch myself when I have these moments way quicker than I ever did before. And so I had a moment I snapped earlier that was like completely out of character for me. I there was like it was all of these things, right? And I took it out on him, and immediately I was like, oh fuck, like that was that was not the way that I should have said that. That was not, you know, so I don't know, it's just having that ability to recognize those earlier, but um knowing that it is an ongoing process, like you mentioned earlier, like, you know, and it's the same thing. I feel I healing is never linear, like no matter what capacity you're at, healing and growing and you know, learning how to be a better version of yourself, it it's never like there's there is no, there is no once I get here, I'm done, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Like it is life be always life will always be lifing, and you're gonna be you think you you're gonna be like riding spring and summer, then suddenly fall and winter hits, and you're like, well, that's a storm. And and seriously, though, you know, there's there's like my husband and I are constantly moving through seasons, and thank God I have these tools because if not, we would not be together, you know. And and in this last season, it was very tough. Like I had uh very difficult health issues come up that has never come up in my entire life. Like most of my life, I've been healthy, fit, I eat well, and then suddenly it all hit me at once. And my husband is going through a season where he's going through an ego death, he's having you know financial challenges and figuring out his purpose and everything. And so it's like the perfect storm, right? And um, and it's really humbling because each each season it invites you to deepen what you already know and also expand your capacity to learn new skills and um to look at yourself a little bit deeper and closer than you've ever looked before. I want to just acknowledge you real quick for noticing that you snapped at your husband and then being like, oh, like I didn't like that, you know? Yeah. And I always say to my clients, I always say my clients, like, listen, I still snap at my husband sometimes too, because you know what? We're all human beings, okay? Yep, it happens. But the more the important thing is repairing. Is like learning is like building that muscle to repair, like where you immediately are like the moment you catch yourself, the moment you're able to regulate, show like show up as a leader.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

And apologize, but not just apologize like, hey, babe, I'm sorry. I mean, sometimes that's fine, but really apologize with a, and this is what I teach in my with to my clients as well, with a process that that is genuine and that um recognizes the impact that you had to him on him, and then also a commitment to a new path forward, right? And so anytime that there's a repair, it's like that's what creates intimacy. It's not being perfect. So I just want to name that for every button out there in case they think that they need to be perfect and there are no fights. No, that's not what relationships are about.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

What do you think is actually even underneath the need to manage their husband in the first place? You know, because I mean, for me, I would my thoughts would be probably perfectionism, because we're ambitious and we're used to having things a certain way, especially if we're entrepreneurs. Um I'm curious like what your thoughts are on what the like underlying causes to even feel the need to manage their husband in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, well, I think um it always goes back to our childhood. You know, and if you want to get, you know, if you want to get weird, it could go back to your previous lifetimes and your lineage, right? But let's just say your childhood for now, um, it is your nervous system is like baked with like the experiences you had and the experience you didn't have. So, for example, like if you didn't have parents who validated you, and instead you had parents who constantly criticized you, yelled at you, you know, even had even corporal punishment, right? Which is not uncommon, right? I had that happen to me, right? And so that that is such an intense experience for children, and you grow up feeling like um nothing you do is enough. Nothing you do, no matter how great you are, how much how much you show up for your community, how many people that you've helped, how much you make in your business, it's never enough. And so what happens is we project that onto our partners. And and if they don't validate us the way that we want to be validated, or see us at our depths, the way that we want to be seen, or follow through on something, right? It signals to us that this person doesn't love me, this person is untrustworthy, they don't really love me anyway, you know, they're just going to abandon me. And suddenly we want to control. Suddenly we want them to, we want to give them a box that they can live inside of, like using this type of tone, right? Responding to your text right away, not having your phones at dinner. It's like all of these parameters. And so, yeah, I think that that this work is about relations. The work that I do is, yes, in the container of relationships, but it's really about you and your relationship to yourself and unpacking how you got to where you are today and what rules did you write for yourself. Like uh for me, and this is in this is in the book that I uh that I wrote that's being released in September. I'm so excited. Um, it's part of an incredible anthology with the with BU brand. Um, yeah, yes. Shout out to We Love You. And the title of the book is Finding Your Way Back to Love. And it is the lessons that I had learned that I, well, let me take a step back. It's about me asking myself, how did we get here? From the place of being on the brink of divorce, how did we get here? And I had to unpack what I learned about love, these rules that I created about love. One of which is love is control. And why is that? Because Disney.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Well, I could go down that whole rabbit route because Disney.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

And my parents, okay, like my parents, it was so interesting um growing up. We were we were an immigrant family. I'm one of six kids. And my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and she would, she would be a seamtress on the seamstress on the side. And my dad was um, he was working full-time, and um, yeah, they just did their best to take care of the family. And um, and they were they were busy. They got they had six kids, so they got busy. They were busy and they got busy too. But I remember I would be in the kitchen uh of our tiny, tiny little kitchen helping my mom make rice, and she was cooking on the stove, and my dad would come over, he would just like mosey over and he'd look at my mom, and then he starts smiling, he starts tickling her, and she he wants to give her a kiss on the cheek. And then she would be like, she would have this look on her face, like, you're so inappropriate, right? Like, don't touch me, you know, not in front of the kids, right? But but like not, but she said it in like a serious way, but I could tell that she had this like this like mischievous smile behind it. And I would look at that and I was like, huh, interesting. Like she has she has the upper hand over her over my dad. You know, there was a power dynamic going on, and so it imprinted on me that that's how you need to be with men, like you need to get the men to chase you. You're the one on top, you're the one that has has the power, right? And of course, Disney validated validates that, you know, the movies I grew up on, like um, like 10 things I hate about you. Oh my gosh, yes. Right. And oh, what are the ones legally blonde? Like all the like the guys are chasing the the girls. It's a power dynamic. Power means control. And so we grew up completely like saturated in this, in this um marinade of like, you know, women need to be on top. Like, we need to have the power. Even if we don't admit it, the subconsciously, we need to hold the power. So I think that also feeds to this control element that we are projecting onto our partners.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

So the legacy edit is all about intentionally designing the life relationships and future and legacy that you want. So, what shifts when a woman stops trying to manage her partner and starts building a relationship where both people are fully responsible for their own roles?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

What shifts can she expect?

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah. I know for me personally, going from being with an unsupportive partner and you know, all of those issues that I had to now having a supportive partner and not not only that, but doing the work. So doing the work and having a supportive partner and a partner who does the work himself, you know, the capacity for not only my relationship, but my business increased exponentially. And, you know, I I guess kind of just in general, like what are the shifts that, you know, would be present for a woman when they do stop managing and actually start building and seeing those shifts in their husbands?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I mean, I would start at the individual, like at the human being, right? Like when you feel like you've done everything you can in your relationship, but you are still frustrated, you still feel unsupported. Um, you are carrying that energy into everything that you do, that heaviness, that not enoughness. And it's a it's a very, it's a very um draining energy. It drains you, um, it makes you feel like you, like nothing you do is enough. And um it's a big burden to carry. And so when women start doing this work on themselves in the context of their relationship, they start to remember their magnificence. Like when I say their magnificence, I mean like, wow, I can all the things I thought were impossible before. Like I actually see myself as somebody who's powerful that can inspire. I don't need to control anymore. Who I am just naturally inspires my partner. And that's not to say that I'm just standing here, not like eating potato chips and grapes, right? But who you're being, your integrity, your compassion, your directness, your assertiveness, your the way that you soften your heart, even when you you don't want to, right? Like the way that you go through your process to show up for the relationship, that's inspiring. And so you start to become this woman that you didn't think was possible, but the woman you always prayed to be. And from that, like your partner, the work that I again, you know, I always love to reiterate this, but the work that I do isn't about changing him. It's about you changing, and he is responding to you like an echo, you know? And then what the changes you see in him, like the changes that I saw in my husband, as he went from being a person that would um would blame the world for his challenges, blame his boss, bring his coworkers. He had to do everything because he couldn't trust anybody, right? To over time being a leader, recognizing his own self-worth because what he didn't realize he didn't have before was love for himself. But through my work and through the conversations that we had, he awakened to that and realized that, okay, like, you know, that is um, you know, he wouldn't say these words, but I see him doing the work subconsciously, right? Like, like just taking uh valuing his life, valuing his quality of life and his time, um, so much more than he did before. And stepping up as a leader and a provider, I would not have, I would not be here without my husband, like full stop. You know, I would not be here it doing what I'm doing, quite literally, um, and having all the support that I get from him without this work and without him rising and and without him um trusting me and trusting my vision. The version of me before would not have been able to be the type of woman that he could trust, you know? Yeah, and and uh we've been through a lot together. We've been through a lot together. We in uh a few years ago, we were living in Connecticut and we um during the pandemic, we sold our house, we bought an RV, and we traveled the country together for three years. Oh wow, yeah, yeah. Um, that was when I decided to become a marriage coach because when you're living under 200 square feet, it's like, okay, you gotta figure your shit out. Um, and we moved to Las Vegas, we renovated our home, and um, we we do, we we were foster parents as well. Like all of these things require teamwork and communication. Um, and with without this foundation that like we have co-created together, this just would not be possible. And so I would say um uh that for the people listening, like you guys get to build a life together. You guys get to build the legacy that you're proud of together. Uh what I always I always keep in mind is that like when you're when you have invested this time and this energy and and opened up your capacity to devote yourself into being better in your relationship. Um, one plus one does not equal one, it equals infinity. Like the the sky's the limit. But just by yourself and just by himself, you know, you can only do so much. But together, you're infinite.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Oh my gosh, I love that so much. That was supposed to be my last question, but you made me, I'm like, okay, I am curious on your thoughts on because I know, I mean, and maybe maybe I'm misunderstanding it. So that's why I kind of want to clarify and get your thoughts for your clients, you know, are their husbands also doing the work, or is it solely changes based on us as women doing the work and them responding? Because I I can I my my brain goes a couple ways on that. So I'm really curious, like in the in the work that you do with the clients that you've worked with, like, are the husbands also doing any of the work, or is it like just in response to the women doing the work?

SPEAKER_01 28:59

I'm so glad you clarified this because I think it's also confusing to a lot of people. It's not um, it's not common, all right. So, yeah, the work that I do is it's it's only women. I only work with the women, I don't work with the men. So where we start is we're the ones doing the work. Yeah now, what I see uh happen very often is that the husbands will eventually do the work too, because they feel inspired to. You know, it's not like who I was before trying to like wrangle my husband, drag him along to these programs, right? Um, you're just different. And um, and many times, and there's no guarantees, right? Because again, this isn't trying to get him to do the work either, right? Um, but but uh many times their husbands will come along and do the work in his own way, in his own, in his own pace. And then other times he's not maybe he's not going to therapy, he's not going to that retreat or whatnot, but he's still doing the work through subconsciously through her. Like I've had clients tell me that like she's witnessed him be less triggered, be more calm, and process things similarly to the way that she is because she's being more vulnerable and she's sharing with him what her process is. She's sharing like how she's feeling and where it came from and what she's committed to in the future. And she's recognized and she she's recognizing and witnessing that he's doing the same. Right. And so that's how this work can can really like start to to create these invisible ripples in your relationship and life.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

I love that so much because I don't know if you got where my brain, because my brain kind of went initially to like, oh shoot, then are we just adding more emotional and mental labor just on the women in the relationships? And so I love that you clarified that. And it goes to show so much on how much of a difference just an energetic shift makes, you know, to those people around you.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Oh my God. We could keep on going down the rabbit hole on that that point you just made.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

We're definitely gonna have to continue this conversation. I would love to. I I want you to um, you know, let the listeners know where they can find you. I know you have your book coming out. So if you want to give a little bit more information on that, um, you know, where they can find you on socials, how they can contact you, how they can work with you, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yes, so they can find me on Instagram, that's where I live. It's I am Julie Tran. And my website, www.gooeylove.co, you'll find amazing freebies and resources and information about my courses and offerings. And also my book is coming out in September. And I would love for you to be a part of it. Um, if you're interested in following along my journey, you could click on the link that I'll send, I'll give to Sarah to add below. And you can sign up and be on the email list to hear more about updates with the launch.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Okay, thank you so much, Julie. And all of those uh links and information will be in the show notes so that you guys can go and connect with her because she is amazing and you absolutely want to be in her world. So thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Thank you, Sarah. Thank you for having me. It was such an honor.

unknown 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

All right, until next time. Bye.