The Place Between Human Pain and Spiritual Truth

Pain does not disappear just because you’ve read the books, meditated, or done years of inner work. On a tender anniversary, Vicky Ross shares a raw, real-time realisation about grief, spiritual growth, and the moment she stopped treating her feelings as proof that something had gone wrong.

We talk about the “myth of painless spirituality” and the frustration that follows: if I’m awake, why am I still triggered? If I understand consciousness, why does heartbreak still hit? Using Jeff Foster’s ocean and wave metaphor, we explore a grounded way to hold both truths at once: the wave can rise, crash, ache, and rage, and you can still be the ocean. That shift matters for emotional healing, trauma recovery, nervous system reactions, and anyone who feels stuck in repeating patterns despite doing all the “right” personal development work.

We also unpack how healing can quietly turn into control, a strategy to make life behave, relationships soften, or fear finally leave. The alternative is not spiritual bypassing or pretending you’re fine; it’s remembering what you are while fully allowing what you feel. If you’ve been trying to become a “better wave”, this will land. Subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review. What wave are you learning to love today?

Transcript

A Loss That Sparks A Truth

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi, welcome back. I'm Vicky Ross, and I'm your host for this episode. And I'd like to welcome you to the Rise Up podcast. Today's episode, I feel very, very strongly, will be a little different. And this is not something that I'm bringing to you as a polished teaching. Rather, it is not something that I have packaged neatly or something that I have fully worked out. So bear with me. This is my head and my work in process. Because this is something that I feel landed in me today. And I want to speak about it while it's still alive. I want to share it with you. So today is the 4th of July, and I know that this will date, but it's the 4th of July 2026. Now I don't know whether this is significant, ironic, symbolic, or simply a coincidence. But 41 years ago, today, my sister died. And this morning, on this same date, I had a realization about human pain, spiritual truth, and what it means to be the ocean while still experiencing the wave. And I appreciate that you'd be going, what are we talking about here? Oceans and waves. I'll tell you. So I'm not going to pretend that I know why it landed today. I just want to tell you that I observed that it did. And I want to talk about the place between human pain and spiritual truth. And it's my truth, by the way. Because I think this is where so much confusion happens. And the only reason I can say this is that I've been following spiritual teachings for I don't know, 40 years, give or take.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

And I've had that kind of confusion.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

And I've also had that kind of growth and development as I've been going along and still having some confusion. So I know this is where I have been confused, and that's why I just want to share what happened for me today.

The Long Search For Answers

SPEAKER_01 2:45

So for those of you who know me, you probably know that I read the books. I read all the books that I can possibly get my hands on, whether I've read them or listen to them on audio, on audible. I listen to the books. I listen to spiritual teachers, podcasts, YouTubes, I meditate, I do the inner work. I learn about energy, consciousness, healing, the nervous system patterns, the habitual behavioral patterns, old wounds, beliefs, trauma, the stories that we tell ourselves, the ego, the soul, the awareness. And maybe you do too, or maybe you do some of it. I don't know. But maybe you're also on that journey of trying to understand yourself more deeply and trying to understand why you feel what you feel, why you react the way that you react. I mean, this is why my whole life, my journey went deeper because I came back from an incident, thing that happened what, 40 years ago or so, whatever it was, 35 years ago. And I was trying to understand why I made the decisions that I did. What is it in me? Who's the one in me that makes these decisions? So I was trying to understand. I was trying to understand why I felt the way I felt. And I don't know if that's what you're doing, or you know, why are certain patterns in your life, why do they keep repeating? And why, even after all the work that you've done, some parts of your life still feel painful, still feel blocked, heavy, stuck. And slowly over the years, I started to understand that I am not just this body. And my sister's death actually really solidified that because I knew of that whole idea that when you die, the soul, the spirit, the energy, whatever we call it, leaves the body. I was taught that it made sense to me. If I kind of went, does this sound true? My body went, yes. And then my sister was killed. And I dressed her. And when I went there, I understood that theory. Maybe you know that somewhere deep inside, that you're more than the things that just happened to you. And you've kind of come to sense, feel, know that you're more than the fear or the heartbreak, or more than the old identity, more than the parts of you that feel lost, or the parts of you that feel abandoned, unseen, unsafe, not enough. You know, that there is that part. But something inside of you goes, but there's another part as well. And oh, how does it all just come together? And oh, it's and yet, even with all that knowing, the human part still hurts. And the human part of me still hurts, and maybe the human part of you does too, and that can feel so confusing because there's a part of me that thinks I know this truth, that I am the creator of my life, I am nothing in everything, I know that you know the core. So I know this truth, why am I still in pain? If I understand that I am more than my story, why does the story still affect me? It kind of frustrates me that, or it used to. If I know that I am more than this human experience, why do I still feel heartbreak or disappointment or anger or frustration? And maybe you've asked yourself something familiar or similar. Maybe you've wondered, if I'm spiritual, why am I still frightened? And if I'm awake, why am I still uh frustrated? And if I've done so much work on myself, why am I still sad or angry or lonely or triggered or overwhelmed, uncertain? And I think this is where that misunderstanding begins.

The Myth Of Painless Spirituality

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Because somewhere along the way, I think I created a myth around spirituality. And maybe you have to, I don't know. My myth says that becoming more spiritual means that the pain should stop touching me. Or maybe not that the pain disappears completely, but that it shouldn't, but that it should become less impactful. I kind of thought that, you know, if you become more spiritual, then you still experience, but it doesn't impact you. You know, you kind of know this is not real. That it should stop blocking me, you know, that it should stop shaping your life, it should stop pulling you back into your old story. You know, this is what being spiritual is all about. This is what we do the work, the grind. And I think this is where I have been for so long. I did not think spirituality would magically erase everything. But I think I did believe that if I became more conscious, more aligned, more awakened, more connected, then the pain of the past would not impact me in the same way that it had. I think I believed that the blocks that I have would lift, that the flow would return, that I would be able to be free, that life would move, and that there's and there is truth in some of that. But I also think there's also misunderstanding because I think I was trying to use spiritual awareness to make the human experience behave better, feel better, flow better. I was trying to become calmer, more healed, more flowing, more peaceful, more open, more trusting, more abundant, more aligned. And when I still then felt pain, I thought something had gone wrong, or something I had done was wrong, or I wasn't doing spirituality enough. I thought I had not healed enough, I thought I was blocked, I thought I was failing, I thought I should know better by now. I mean, it's been what 40 years, odd years that you've been doing this?

The Wave And Ocean Realisation

SPEAKER_01 10:16

But what if that pain is not proof that I have failed spiritually? What if the pain is not proof that you have failed either? What if the wave can be here and I'm still the ocean? And what if the wave can be here and you are still the ocean? That is the sentence that landed in me today. The wave can be here and I am still the ocean. Jeff Foster uses this beautiful metaphor of the ocean and the waves. The wave rise, they crash, they move, they look separate, right? Because there's one wave here and another wave there, and they appear like they have their own life and their own direction, their own force. But the truth is that I'm never separate from the ocean. And I have known about this metaphor, I understood it, I've spoken about it, but today it landed differently. I was sitting in my garden, and it just all felt different because I realized that I have known somewhere in the background that I am the ocean.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

But I was still experiencing life from inside the wave.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

So when that wave hurt, I try to fix the wave. When the wave crashed on the shore, I try to understand why it crashed. And when I've and when that wave felt blocked, I tried to unblock it. And when the wave felt frightened, I tried to heal it and comfort it and support it. When that wave felt messy, I tried to calm it. And when the wave felt like lack or loss or fear or heartbreak, I thought, what do I need to do to change this wave so that life can flow? And if you think about it, it sounds reasonable, and that is what so much personal development teaches. Find the wound, understand the pattern, change the belief, heal the trigger, rewrite the story. And please, I am not dismissing any of that. That work matters, and it has a place, and it can be deeply healing, it can be the start of everything, the discovery. And it has been part of my life and part of my work for many, many years. And sometimes when I work with new people, I have to meet them where they're at, and I have to do that work, even though I know that I'm working with the wave and not the ocean. But today I saw something beyond that. The wave is not blocking the ocean. The wave is just one expression of the ocean. The wave does not need to become perfect because it belongs. The wave does not need to become peaceful before it is allowed. The wave does not need to become healed before it can be loved.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

The wave is already made of ocean.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

And what is and that is what moved me so deeply. Because I used to see the pain as something that was done to me, something that happened to me, you know, all that kind of stuff. Then through the years of growth, of learning, healing, books, training, inner work, meditation, I realized something else. That pain can only really land where there is already a wound. So when the work became heal the wound, heal the wound so the pain cannot come in. Heal the wound so the trigger no longer controls me. Heal the wound so life can flow. And again, I'm not saying that that work is wrong. It is important. But today, and I keep saying this, something became softer. What if I do not have to do anything to the wave in this moment? What if the ocean can simply love the wave? What if the wave can rise, crash, ache, cry, rage, dissolve, and the ocean remains whole. But the ocean does not look at the wave and say, you are wrong. It does not say you should not be here. The ocean does not say to the wave, you are too emotional, or you are not spiritual enough. It does not say once you calm down, then I will love you. The ocean allows the wave. Because the wave is one of the ways that the ocean expresses itself, and that is where this sentence came from. I am the ocean learning how to love the wave. And that brought tears to my eyes because it feels so different from trying to fix myself, it feels so different from trying to heal every wound before I'm allowed to be free. It feels so different from trying to become a better version of the wave, a calmer wave, a more acceptable wave, or let's just say it, a more spiritual wave. A wave with no rocks. Or a wave with no resistance, a wave with no blocks. What if that was never the point? And what if the point was not to be the perfect wave? But the point is to remember the ocean, even while the wave is happening. And this is the place between human pain and spiritual truth.

Feeling Without Spiritual Bypassing

SPEAKER_01 17:23

It's not bypassing, is not pretending that pain does not hurt. It's not saying, Well, I'm an ocean, so none of this matters. Because the human part of you does feel. The body feels, the heart feels and hurts, the nervous system reacts, the mind creates meaning and thoughts and ideas and stories. Let's not forget them. The child inside of you can feel frightened, abandoned, unseen, unloved, unsafe, alone, something. And you do not need to shame that. You do not need to rise above it with clever spiritual language. You do not need to pretend that you are too evolved to feel that. But you can also not have to become it. And that is the difference. The pain can be here, I'm still the ocean. The heartbreak can be here in that wave, but I'm still the ocean. The fear can be here, I am still the ocean. The lack can be here, I'm still the ocean. The uncertainty can be here. I am still the ocean. The wave does not cancel the ocean. The human does not cancel the divine. The pain does not cancel the truth. And maybe this is where spirituality becomes real. Not when you stop feeling, but when you can feel without forgetting who you are. I have a power deck that I've had for many, many years, and I've loved it for all these years. I bought it in Canada, in fact, in 1996. And there's one of the cards is a Buddha sitting in the center surrounded by problems. And the teaching is something like this. If I leave my center and jump into the problem, I become part of the problem. And I can no longer see clearly because I'm now inside it. And for years I understood that as staying centered, staying in my core, staying calm, look at the problem from a distance, from the from the center, try to solve it from a better place. And there is truth in that. But today I see another layer. Sometimes I thought I was centered, but I was still centered inside the wave. I was still trying to be the calmest part of the wave, looking at the froth, if you like. I was trying to be the wisest part of the wave, and the most regulated part of the wave, and the most spiritual part of the wave, but I was still the wave. And today just everything has shifted and it feels different. It was not about finding the center of the wave, it was about remembering the vastness, the depth, the richness of the ocean. Because from the wave's perspective, everything feels urgent, everything feels personal, everything feels like it means something. This means I'm blocked, or this means I'm not loved, or this means I'm failing, or this is I'm not safe, or I have to fix it, or I have to do something. This means that I have to get life moving again. But from the ocean, the wave is allowed to move in whichever way it wants. It does not have to mean anything or everything, it can simply be a wave, an experience, a moment, a movement, a part of life expressing itself, and then it returns. And this is where, for me, the spiritual idea that the soul comes here to have an experience starts to feel different to me. Because if I am the ocean, then maybe this human life is one way that the ocean gets to express itself. And maybe the ocean creates a wave and says, Let me know what it's like to crash on that shore. The shore could be South Africa, the shore could be. Queensland, the shore could be England or Greece or America, Canada. Let me know what it's like to crash on that shore. Let me know what it's like to love. Let me know what it's like to lose. Let me know what it's like to hope, to be frightened, to create, to speak, to teach, to sit in silence. Let me know what it's like to cry and to laugh and to begin again. And then the wave returns back to the ocean. But the wave was never separate. It was always ocean in motion, so to speak. And that is the peace I had not felt in this way before. Not as an idea, but as a feeling, a knowing inside my body.

Flow Without Losing Yourself

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Now, Dr. Joe often teaches that you cannot create a new future while remaining the same prop. While remaining the same person. And I understand that intellectually, that as identity work, as changing the old self, or and I have understood that as identity work, as changing the old self, as no longer living from the same personality, uh the same past or the same emotional patterns. And I still think that there's truth in that. But today I see another layer that I wanted to share. Maybe the deepest shift is not that the old pain disappears, or the deepest shift is that I stop being the old identity every time the pain appears. But maybe the wave can rise without me saying this is who I am.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Maybe the old stock.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Maybe flow is something I earn by healing enough. Maybe flow is not something that I earn by healing enough. Maybe flow is what I return to when I stop identifying with the block. Because when I say that this pain is blocking my life, I'm looking at it from the wave. I'm giving the wave the power to define the ocean. But when I say this pain is a wave moving through the ocean of me, something softens. It may still hurt, but it doesn't change who I am. Because it's no longer, you know, the whole truth. It's no longer my identity, it's no longer the definition or the meaning of my life. And for me, this is where freedom starts to appear. Not freedom from being human, freedom to be human without losing the deeper truth. Freedom to feel without becoming only the feeling. Freedom to cry without believing that the tears are proof that something has gone wrong. Or freedom to experience fear without giving fear the final word. Freedom to love the wave without needing it to be different. And that is very different from the way that I have sometimes approached healing.

When Healing Turns Into Control

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Because sometimes healing becomes another word of control. I want to heal so life will behave. That's a control. I want to unblock myself so money will flow. So I want to control how life goes. I want to become more spiritual so relationships will soften because then I think I can control the relationships. I want to clear the energy so that I can finally get what I want. And I understand that. Trust me. But what if life is not asking me to become perfect before I'm allowed to flow? What if life is asking me to remember what I am even when the wave is imperfect? Even when it's messy or grieving or scared, even when it doesn't know what happens next. Because the ocean does not need proof, and the ocean does not need the wave to succeed before it knows itself. The ocean does not need the wave to be calm before it is whole. The ocean does not need the wave to be chosen before it is love. The ocean simply is.