7. THE BROKERAGE BLUEPRINT: WHEN TO STAY, WHEN TO GO, AND HOW TO GROW

 Is your brokerage a partner in your success, or just a place to hang your license?

In this episode, Amanda and Leni dive deep into their personal "brokerage journeys". Sharing the highs, the lows, and the pivotal moments that led them to where they are today. Whether you are in real estate or the mortgage industry, the environment you choose dictates your ceiling. We’re breaking down the exact checklist you should use when vetting a firm and the "red flags" that signal it’s time to find a new professional home.

In this episode, we discuss:

The Origin Stories: Our personal paths from Day 1 to today.

The Value Gap: What a brokerage should provide versus what many actually do.

The "When" Factor: 3 signs it is officially time to consider a move.

Culture vs. Commission: Why the highest split isn't always the biggest win.

Join Our Teams: How we are building differently and how you can get in the room with us.

Ready to Level Up?
We are both actively growing our teams and looking for high-vibe, driven professionals to join us. If you’re curious about what a partnership with us looks like, let’s chat:

Connect with Amanda (Real Estate): https://calendly.com/amandafreemanrealtor/exp-chat

Connect with Leni (Mortgage): leni@hawkinshl.com or text 916-402-1224

Don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review if this episode helped you gain clarity on your career path! 

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Connect with Leni Lopez (Your Lender Bestie)
Instagram: @leniyourloanofficer
Ready to talk lending or get preapproved? Email her team: leni@hawkinshl.com
Website: LopezNguyen.com
Mortgage Loan Officer
NMLS 1366630/225910
Hawkins Home Loans, Inc.

Connect with Amanda (Your Realtor Bestie)
Instagram: @exploresacliving
Email: amanda@exploresacliving.com
Website: Exploresacliving.com 
Curious about buying or selling in Sacramento County or beyond? Schedule a no pressure call: calendly.com/amandafreemanrealtor
Amanda Freeman | eXp | DRE 02150573

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Is your brokerage actually helping you grow, or are they just taking a cut of your hard-earned commission? Today, Lenny and I are getting personal about our paths in mortgage and real estate and the pivotal moments we realized we needed something more.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

We're breaking down the perfect fit checklist and discussing the red flags that mean it's time to pack your bags. If you've been wondering if the grass is really greener elsewhere, this episode is your roadmap.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

And we'll even tell you how to join the teams we're building right now. Welcome to Realty Check, the podcast about the real lives of agents, lenders, and moms who do it all. We're here for the honest conversations behind the business, the family, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Let's get into it. Good morning. Good morning. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

I can't say.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Hey, I'm so happy to be here with you. Long time no chat. I know. I to you all, it's only been two weeks. I know. For us, it's been like a month. I know. We're doing our best at recording things a little ahead of time because, you know, we're working moms and we just want to make sure that we can still release on time. But, you know, say lovey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

We are also, for some reason, very giggly today. Yeah. So um just be ready for some moments of uh gig of giggliness.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, and thank you to our editor who's probably gonna giggle out any fits of laughter that we have that are too long. So, Amanda. Yes, ma'am. What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Are you crying? Are you thriving? Okay. Okay. On a macro level, I want to cry. Yeah. Just like always, constantly, right? Like, what is going on with the world, our country, all of the things. It's like, it doesn't, I don't even need to say anything in particular, even though there are particular things happening as of this recording today, but just like that constant sense of like what the actual okay, I won't say that, but what the actual, like, what is going on? Okay. Yeah. That said, I want to focus on me and my community. And so I'm gonna focus on a thriving moment today. I love that for you. Okay. Okay. So I have a Kindle. I purchased this Kindle like 10, 15 years ago. It's been forever. Okay, and I go through I go through um phases. Yes, seasons. Seasons, phases, whatever, where I'm like really into my Kindle or I'm really not into my Kindle. And this season I'm very into my Kindle. I use the Libby app. Are you familiar with Libby app? No. Okay, so that it is the uh the app that links your library card so that you can download a bunch of ebooks or audiobooks. You have no you have never heard of Libby app?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

No, because I'm I'm a I'm a physical book person, but you're you're selling me on a Kindle right now. So keep going.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Okay, so um, yeah, so it connects, so you can have, like I think with our library, you can have eight downloads at a time. Um, you might even be able to have more loans than that, but you can you hold books, you I don't know, it's a whole thing. And so I have been reading books on my Kindle. There's a local artist, local artist, local author. It's gonna take me a second for my words to come to me today. Uh, there's a local author, and I like binged all of her books from the library uh for on the Libby app. And then I just recently went down a Libby app Reddit Rabbit hole. Libby app Reddit rabb rabbit hole. Yeah. Libby app readdit rabbit hole. Say that five times fast. I don't think so. Um and I discovered something called skip the line, which is like when books that have long holds on them, they'll they'll do like a, I don't know how what to call it, it's like a magic, a magic skip the line where all of a sudden you won't have to wait 12 weeks to get a copy of this book, but it's the first, it's I think it's first come, first serve. So whoever checks out the skip the line copy gets that copy. And then uh, and then they they're constantly refilling it every day. So the Reddit post, it said, uh, is anyone else addicted to the skip skip the line like me? I'm checking it multiple times a day. And I was like, I don't really, I've never used this feature. So I started using it and now I'm obsessed with it. And I have been using the skip the line for audiobooks. So I've been picking audiobooks that I can listen to while I'm working out or while I'm driving. I took uh some clients to visit New Builds like all day yesterday. We were gone for like six hours, and that's there's a lot of driving between communities, and so I gotta listen to my audiobook. And so the second half of this very long-winted crying or thriving is the book that I picked. I didn't know the author. I didn't know the I had never heard of this book before. Do you mind sharing what it is? I'm going to. It is like I'm loving it. Uh, the the book is called The Storm, and the author is Rachel Hawkins. Hawkins? Really? Is it Hawkins? Or am I just saying that? Hold on. Let me pull it up real quick. Because now I'm like looking at it and I'm I'm like, wait, Hawkins? It is Rachel Hawkins. So there you go. Maybe she's uh she's related in some way to Lori and the gang. Yeah, maybe so. Uh, but it is a I'm really, I really like to read thriller books. So it's a thriller murder mystery kind of, where you know, there was a murder a long time ago. Someone was tried for the murder, but they they were found like it was a hung jury. And so, you know, no one has really known for all of these years how this person actually died. And then all of these characters come back into each other's life. Um, you know, at 50 years later, and it's the story of everyone's perspective. Like, and so, but now I think that from like as I'm reading it and the way that certain things are worded from everyone's perspective, I'm like, oh my gosh, I think one of these characters is about to die because they keep saying, like, found in the possessions of, and I'm like, wait, possessions that like it's kind of weird how they're wording this, which I didn't catch up, catch on to at first because it's an audiobook. Yeah. I'm sure I would have picked up on it right away if I was reading a hard copy, which is why I don't mind saying it right now because I feel like I'm not giving too much away by by saying that phrase. But anyway, I'm I'm really enjoying, like, I kind of I've been wanting to listen to it before bed at night, but I haven't yet. Because I also hate listening to a book while falling asleep, because then I'm like, where was I when I in the morning and trying to find my place or whatever? But I do that same thing with podcasts, but on podcasts at least you can set like a timer. You can on this too. So maybe I need to experiment. I also, my aura ring says that I fall asleep within seven minutes of putting my head on the pillow. So I also don't have a lot of things. So then set it for 10.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Set it for 10, and then you only have to go back 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Okay, that's true. Okay, yeah, okay, I'll try that. Thanks, Lenny. I'm so excited for you. That's such a thriving. It is, it is, and I'm gonna hold on to the thrivings right now.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Also, it's really cool that you are utilizing something that you got 10, 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I know, I know, and that I'm constantly using um my uh my library card through it. And you can, I think you can get like, I think it's the New York library will give people cards across the country. So you can have multiple library cards anywhere that you can get a library card or that you have a library card, you can attach it to the Libby app. And so you can just like ping between your library cards for stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Dang, I should have done that when I went to New York City.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

You should have.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I did go to the library there.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I should have. I I I messed up. I think that you can do it online though. I think you can apply. I don't know. Maybe they only did that during COVID. I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Am I gonna start traveling and just getting library cards from everything? Collect them? That would be kind of fun. That'd be kind of fun. All right, how about you? How are you doing today? I'm doing really well. Uh so this year, even though, as you said, dumpster five of a world currently, I've decided that I'm gonna stop waiting for life to be enjoyable and I'm going to make life enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Oh my god, I love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And so I planned a girls' trip and we went to New Orleans, and it was phenomenal. We just ate really good food, and I got to talk to my son almost every other day, and I would video time in the morning because everyone else would sleep in, and I'm crazy and I don't know how to sleep. So I'd wake up early and I'd have three hours in the morning to just discover the city on my own. And so I would FaceTime with my kiddo, and I I would like show him the city that I was in, and it was like really awesome moments. How is the music? So good. So if you've never been in New Orleans, it there is just live music everywhere. Like it's crazy in the sense of you are in one little cafe and there's live music, and you walk outside, and as soon as you stop outside, you start hearing music beckon you to another location, and it's just music on music, and it's just and it's all good. It's all good music. And um, we even went to a jazz brunch, and we were sitting there, and my friends being my total friends, were like, We're here for my friend getting a divorce. And I was like, What? You jerks. And so the jazz singer was like, I'm gonna make name a song after you, and he makes a song for me and he's saying my name to the entire restaurant. It was very silly, it was a great time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a very good time. Um, so I'm thriving because of that. And then again, this is my birthday month. I don't oh it's my birthday month. We're currently in February. Happy birthday! Thank you. And so I um We're actually in March, but that's we are in March, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Happy March! We'll pretend. We'll we'll pretend.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Okay We're still in February!

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Happy birthday month! So um, so I decided to throw a party for myself. And when my kiddo was going to his dad's house, I was dropping him off at school and I'm giving him lots of cuddles and hugs before sending him to breakfast. And he's running up to the breakfast store and he turns around and he goes, Mama, remember. And I said, Remember what? He goes, Remember to have fun. And I melt. I melt. And if you are a parent out there listening, you probably relate to this, but you constantly ask the question of, Am I a good parent? Am I doing a good job? Am I being a good steward of this person? If you're a good parent, you're asking that question. Yeah, yes. And so I I ask myself that question constantly and I struggle with it constantly. Um, but in that moment, for one, like I was like, I'm I think I'm actually raising a good person. Like and the fact that he like is using like the verbiage that I use for him, because I I'll do that to him and be like, hey, remember, and then I'll say something like that. Yeah. And the fact that he did it back to me, it was just it was magic. So I love that. I'm living on that high baby.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah. Oh my god, that's amazing. Ah, yay. Look at us thriving while while we also want to cry, but we find those moments to thrive, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

I know.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

So we have to do. We have to I've I've learned, I am learning that in this phase of life, I don't think that we're gonna get away from the crying. So let's find those thriving moments.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And it's okay to feel the crying, it's just also important that we don't become downtrodden and lose all hope.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

And we don't have to su like it's not how do I say this? Like, suffering isn't mandatory. That sounds that's not what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

But like suffering doesn't make us a martyr for it. Yeah, actually fixing the solution by by constantly living in a depressed state.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

And joy is joy is part of the resistance. Joy is responsible. Joy is resistance.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Hell yeah. Yeah.

unknown 12:04

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Well, cool. Yay! Thanks for listening to that, everybody. Yeah, yeah. I I I honestly I can't wait to hear about your guys's. Um, so I know that some of you we don't ever talk, but if you ever want to DM me and tell me what your crying thriving is, I would love to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Also, I I will I'm gonna I'm gonna spill the beans a little bit. Spill it? Okay, Lenny has been kicking around this idea for for, I mean, since we started this thing. Yeah, she has wanted to build community around this. And um, and we've been kicking around the idea of like a monthly Zoom club type thing. First, she wanted to to say that there was a a set number of people who would be included because she's like, it'll just be too much, too much talking or whatever. And I'm like, Lenicia, there are people like me who just want to log on and listen and don't want to talk and don't want to have the video on.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So there are that there's people like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Because she's like, it'll be way, you know, if we have 15 people on there and everyone's trying to talk the whole time. I'm like, no, no, some people just want to be a fly on the wall, and that's okay. So all that to say, if this is something that could be something that you would enjoy being a part of, will you send us a DN DM or send us a message? Because um we would we'd love to see if there's interest in something like this.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, I think of it as possibly being maybe like a monthly crying or thriving where we kind of just like talk about what's going on. We've mentioned it before, but something in our industry is that you you are a solopreneur, right? Like you are you're a solo entrepreneur. And so sometimes it can be very um isolating. And so I want to create a space where we can kind of come together, find solace, realize that we're not alone, bounce ideas off of each other, just hear what others are experiencing because I think it just helps us all just become better as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

So I don't know. I kind of want to do this. Um, probably gonna start in like the next few months. Uh if there's interest. So if you are interested, let us know.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

And really, you only need like one of you to raise your hand and step up, and Lenny's gonna be all over it.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

You know, we we'll start, we can start small and grow.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

That said, what are we talking about today? Ooh, so you picked a really nice title for this episode.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Gemini picked a really nice title for this episode. I I will admit that I utilize AI not not to do all the work, but I I use it for inspiration. So thank you, Gemini, for helping us. But yes, please tell me.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

The title is the right home for your hustle. So we are talking about the big B. Bitch, brokerage.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

We're a couple of big bees over here. We're talking a couple of big bees talking about a bigger one. The brokerages.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Okay, great. So today we're gonna talk a little bit about our brokerage journeys. Yeah. And then also our thoughts on what people should be looking for if they're like getting into the industry and don't have any idea what kind of brokerage they might be looking for, or even are considering a swap, maybe some red flags to prompt you that it might be time to move on. Yeah. Does that sound about right? Absolutely. Sweet.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And you all just listened to our recent episode, hopefully, where we got to talk to a newly founded brokerage owner.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yes. So if you haven't listened to that episode, it pairs pairs really well with this one. Go back there.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Go back there, listen to that, and come right back here. Or listen to this and then hop over there.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

They could flow either way. You don't want to flow.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I will admit I am chaos. I am I am chaos incarnate sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

We love you for it. And sometimes I listen to podcasts. I love podcasts. Oh no. Don't say what you're about to say. Don't say it, Lenny. Sometimes I listen to podcasts the opposite way. Linisia.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Oh you hurt my brain. So, and that's why we drink is one of my favorite podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Oh, I thought you said that's why we drink and that's why we drink because you listen to podcasts backwards.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

No, one of my favorite podcasts is called And That's Why We Drink. Okay. And I started listening to it like six uh no, a year into their into the their genesis. Okay. And I listened to all of their episodes backwards for the first year.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

It must be very interesting to watch someone devolve in their skills.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

It's really good, actually. Uh and then I switched from there to listening the other way around. But uh Wait, so you listen to everything twice? I no, I listened to the from episode one uh year in, year one, backwards, and then from year one to year two onwards, I listened to it. I know, I know chaos. Anyways, uh brokerages, that's what we're talking about, baby.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

How do you share your mortgage broker journey with us? Because it is it is um well, I mean, we've both been through uh multiple brokerages in our respective, but um on the mortgage side, will you share your story with us?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, so um just a little bit behind the curtain, pew pew. Uh when it comes to brokerages, if you're not in our industry, let me just explain to you. A brokerage is kind of like your umbrella company. They're the person who kind of they they have like the bigger insurance policy in case things go awry. They're the ones who uh in mortgage, they're the ones who are getting technically uh approved by by other lenders to get to be able to use their products. They're the ones who are getting the commission checks and sending you your split. A split means a percentage, depending on what like the split or the percentage depends on what you have in place. Um so and they're the ones who kind of handle all like compliance related issues depending on your brokerage. The amount of compliance kind of differs. Um so that's kind of what a brokerage does. It's like your umbrella, it's they're like your safety net.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah, I'm trying to think of what a good example would be. And I'm coming up, I'm coming up empty at the moment. But yeah, it they're just like they're the parent, and you get to be the little kid running around doing your school, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Like you go to a certain school, but your classroom is like the one who's doing like the big things that are affecting you on a micro level, but like on a macro level, that school is what you're a part of.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

You're the admin team of the school is like your brokerage, and then you are the teacher of your classroom of clients. Yep. How about that? Yeah, we found out. Yes, we figured it out.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

High five. We are capable. Okay, so so when I originally got licensed, and I we kind of we briefly delved into this in previous episodes, but uh when I first got licensed, I but someone might be listening backwards, Lenny might not know your story at all. Chaos. Um there's in mortgage, there's a few different options. There is retail and there is uh like brokerages. So retail would kind of be like uh you work for a direct company, like a bank. Like let's say US bank. US bank be US bank does their own mortgages. So you could work for US bank and do loans solely for US bank, meaning you're just worrying about their compliance, you're just like following their rules. Or you can work for a brokerage. And a brokerage, again, is your umbrella company that gets light gets approved by multiple lenders and you can shop around. When I was in college, I got scouted essentially by a retail, uh retail um mortgage company. Okay. They did their own loans. Everything was in-house. Um, that means that they had their own processing team, they had their own underwriting team, they financed their own loans, and then from there they decided if they wanted to keep the loans or sell them.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I feel like the lay person believes that that is the majority, is that there are these in-house lenders writing their own stuff. How common in the mortgage industry are in-house versus like the broker's the broker kind of? Yeah. You can work with multiple types of work.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I would say if we had this conversation 10 years ago, it would it would be a much larger percentage. Um so so when sorry, I'm trying to think how to order this. If you go back to the early 2000s, there was a lot more brokerages. There's a lot more brokers out there. Um, it was the Wild West. People didn't really have to have much of a license. They could just, you know, decide that they wanted to be a mortgage person and they just all of a sudden worked.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Um and then during the crash, um, a lot of those smaller companies dissolved. Okay. And it became more of a bigger, uh, big bank retail oriented field again. Okay. And uh I would say over the last 10 years, there has been a larger number of people going to be a broker in in brokerages. And so, and I and again, personally speaking, I think that's to the benefit of the client because again, I get the options, people get the option of shopping around, getting products that they wouldn't necessarily be able to get. Um and so um I I would say it's more common now. I would say about maybe I'm wrong. I don't have the stats in front of me. So if you are in mortgage and you're like, she's wrong, I I I probably am, but uh, but I would say it's probably closer around like still like only like 30, 40%, maybe 30% of all loans are done by brokerages rather than retail or or big bank.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Oh, okay. That's interesting. Interesting. But I also feel, and you can tell me if this is wrong, that that that continues to grow. Cause I have you know, just like you have multiple agents that you work with. I have multiple uh lenders that I work with. And one of my other lenders that I work very closely with, he recently went from retail to being a broker and opening his own brokerage because he could not be competitive anymore as a retail broker. He couldn't. And he's like, this is like, I I'm not doing my clients, like I'm doing my clients a disservice and I'm having to pass them on. Like they're shopping around and they're finding that my rates aren't the best anymore. Yeah.

unknown 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

And that's also tough about working with uh a big retail company is you are set to their commissions. Uh so again, pulling back the curtain here. So we make money off of you getting a loan, right? Like that's how I get paid. I get paid when your loan closes. And so I get a it, they're called BIPS basis points that you can charge a client. So a hundred basis points is 1% of the loan amount. So there are big banks and certain retail companies where they say we charge 275 bips. That's 2.75 bips. Okay. And they're like, that's what we charge, no matter what. Okay. And so that means that you can't be flexible if you're flexible. So let's say your client is shopping around, or let's say it's someone that you were like, hey, I know this person, we're at a loan, we're at a property uh size amount that I don't want to make more money off of this. I'm okay with making less. You don't have that choice. Okay. And so that's tough. Interesting. Yeah. Whereas, like for me, for instance, if for some reason I really want to like win a deal and someone has better pricing than me, I can just lower my commission. And I can I can win it over, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

It's also interesting because on the real estate side, it cannot be it cannot be regulated at all. I I guess perhaps. Um I I yeah, I don't think even on the brokerage level, because I know like agents, you know, they everyone sets their own prices, their own commission. But I I'm not sure if even on a broker level, if a broker is allowed to say this is our bottom line. I guess probably. I don't know. I guess I would need to look into that more.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

This also is nice because working for a brokerage, you can decide, okay, this company right here, they have a certain product that I know people need to get. Okay. So I'm gonna take a lower commission to make it work. And so for this certain lender, I'm always gonna take a lower commission. Okay. Whereas I usually will take this commission. And so you can do things like that. Whereas in retail, again, you're that's just impossible. There's no way you could do it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

The dog has deciding right now. He also was scratching at the door. And when I opened the door for him, just stared at me and would not come in. Doc. You know I'm a cuddler.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

You're gonna you're gonna have to go on timeout though if you don't settle down. So long story long to say I just kind of wanted to give you guys a little bit of a a peer behind the curtain. No, I think it's to understand what a brokerage is from a lender's perspective. Yes. So I started out in retail. So retail means I wasn't working for a big bank, quote unquote, but I was working for a mortgage company who only did their own products and own loans. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So when I I guess you could say I chose them, but I don't know real if I really chose them because I'd never been in mortgage before. Right. And they scouted me, and you know, I was broke and I needed to pay for my own way to eat. Yeah. And so they offered me a job and they offered to pay for my licensing. And so I got licensed through them. They paid for all my classes. I started working. And I'm someone we talked about this many times. I love helping people. Um, if I wasn't doing this, I would have another career where I was helping people. And so I really liked the idea of just going around and and just helping people out. And when I worked for this company, I came in it with bright eyes, bushy tail, ready to go. And I realized that their idea of what a fiduciary was was different than what I was. And so it and also they, I think they maybe this is me personally, but I think they purposefully wanted me to stay ignorant to the process. So they didn't want me to learn how to process loans. They didn't want me to learn like what an like how to think like an underwriter. They didn't want to. You were a cog in their machine. I was like a cog in their machine, right? They saw me as someone who was outgoing and could do well in sales, and they were like, just focus on getting an application and we'll make it like grab the spaghetti, throw it on the wall, and we'll see what sticks. Yeah. And so I uh only lasted there a very short period of time and I left. And then I left mortgage as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

And uh at that time in California, you used to be able to put in contracts, like if you do not stay with us for a certain amount of time, you will have to pay us back or you can't go into another industry or something like that. Like a non-compete. Okay. So I had a non-compete with them, and like I didn't want to fight it, even though I probably could have. Um how long was it for? For a year.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Okay. And so which means that you're essentially having to pivot completely out of mortgage because you can't not have a paycheck for a year. Yeah, no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

So um I went, became an office manager, and then, you know, fell in love, got engaged, decided to get married, and I decided that I wanted to go back into mortgage because we wanted to start a family. Yeah. And I knew that it would be a little bit more flexible than, you know, working for myself would be a little bit more flexible than working for someone else and having to like ask for time off to do things. Yeah. And so I started looking at different brokerage, uh, different brokers and different I went on LinkedIn because I didn't know where else to go. I didn't know who to call. So I just went on LinkedIn and I typed in mortgage loan officer. And I got I looked for all these different broker brokerages out there. And I knew that I wanted to go broker. Okay. Because I helped my birth father buy a house when I worked for the retail company. And when going through it, I realized that there wasn't really many products out there. And um, they didn't offer any first-time home buyer programs, nothing like that. Okay. And they really put in my head that I would probably have to, you know, have 20% down to have buy a house, or I'd have PMI. And they talked about how terrible PMI was and how stupid people had PMI. And I was like, I don't know. I you're not stupid to have PMI, by the way. And I'll explain why later, if you'd like. Um, but anyways, all this to say I wanted to work for brokerages. Um, so I'm applying for these brokers. Um, I got hired by one, and it was awful. Okay. It was awful. I'm gonna be very honest with you guys about what happened. I'm not gonna say the name of this brokerage whatsoever. Okay. So tell us give us the T. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I go, I interview, and the guy, the broker, he's a he's a gentleman, he interviews me and he's telling me about how things work and everything. And he's like, Yeah, I'm really big on like education. And he's saying all the words, right? All the words that sound the right phrases that you the the yeah, yep. He's like, Yeah, you know, um, I'll have you work on my loans, and then as you build your own list, and then you can become your own L O and you know, I'll just teach you all these things, I'll show you how to read rate sheets certain ways, all this stuff, right? Um, and then I look at his team and it's all women. Okay. And um, and then I found out, and I and I'd only I stayed there for like two weeks. Okay. Okay. I found out that he and he called him his girls. He's like, My girls. Creepy. So creepy. He'd be like, My girls, they all work so hard. And I love taking my girls on vacations. Creepy. And then I found out that he was dating the office manager, and I was like, I cannot be here. And then I was sitting there at that desk and I was like, I hate this. There's no way I can go into mortgage again if this is how it is again. Like all eight days into the job. All eight days into the job. And I at lunchtime, I was in my car crying, um, listening to early on Chapel Roan. Uh no, wait, no, was Chapel Roan around at the time? No. Who was I listening to? I was listening to some girly pop I love girly pop music. Um, and I was crying in the car, and I called my then husband, and he's like, just quit. You hate this. And I said, just quit? I was like, don't I need to give notice? He's like, You've been there two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

They don't need to, yes, there's nothing for them to backfill. I uh I went in and I went back in and I was like, I went to the office manager. I was like, I'm really sorry about this. I don't think this is a good fit. And she's like, why? And I said, I don't think this is what I expected. Um and I was like, I wish you guys all the best, but um, you know, I just I don't think this is the right fit for me in my life right now. And so I walked away. And again, I had no job. So then I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? And I got a job.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I'm glad you got that support though from from from the house. From your then husband. Yes, you know, having that support is huge when yeah, having to put yourself first over the job.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

He was very supportive when it comes came to that, and it was really nice. And so uh quit that job and I was back to the drawing board of looking for a job. And again, this is uh this is 2020. I don't know if you guys remember that time, but uh it was kind of hard to find a job. Uh and so uh I became a membership coordinator for a chamber of commerce. Okay, and it was nice. I really liked the idea of helping small businesses because again, I love small businesses and uh doing that, um, but again, it wasn't what I wanted to do. I had quit my job as an office manager to go back into mortgage. So it wasn't, it wasn't what I told myself that I was going to do. And uh I started looking around at other jobs. I got an offer from another mortgage company. Um, and when he, this person, he had his own mortgage brokerage, real estate brokerage, uh uh, and he also, or real estate license and also his own insurance company. And so he's like, yeah. And and again, I applied for a job with the title being mortgage loan officer. Okay. On LinkedIn. And I go to interview, and at that time we needed money, right? Yeah. I have bills to pay. Yeah. I can't just keep yeah. And so I interview, I get hired, I hang my license with him, do all the things. And then he says, Well, I really need help with my insurance company right now. Can we help you out with my insurance company? I was like, sure. So I start running his insurance company. Okay. And I'm not doing mortgage, I'm not touching any of his mortgage files. I'm not doing any, I'm not building my own clientele list. No, we got it. And then he's like, Well, I need help with my real estate company. Can you help me? Can you be a TC? So then I start being a transaction coordinator.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

I didn't know that you were ever a transaction coordinator. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

For this man. Yeah. And again, I'm he owns three companies and he's putting me in the two that I don't want to do. Yeah. And I'm like, what am I doing here? And so I'm working there, it's it's going fine. Um, but I get a call from the past, the the current president of the Chamber of Commerce. Okay. Um, her name was Lori Hawkins. Oh, what? I feel like that name is so familiar. So familiar. I get a call from her and she says, Hey, what are you up to? And I was like, Oh, you know, she's she's like, I would love to have a meeting with you. And she gave me any context about what she wanted to meet about.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

And I was like, okay, she and so this is on Thanksgiving in 2020. And so um the day after Black Friday, we have a Zoom call. And I remember exactly where I was, I was in my office at home. I remember the I to this day I remember the exact conversation. And she's just asking me about what I'm doing. And I told her that I was working for a mortgage company. She's like, really? She's like, what made you do that? And I said, Well, I was I'm licensed. She's like, You're licensed? And I said, Yeah. And she's like, she's like, look, I'm gonna be very honest with you. I I liked how you worked, I liked how you presented yourself. I I wanna see if you'd be interested in working for me. And so I came and visited her office. And I visited her office, and it's not a harem of girls that she's cultivating. Um, but she's, you know, she was just telling about who she was, and I just saw her rhythm and I saw how she interacted with her clients, and I saw the how hard she worked, and I saw the standard that she held herself to. And I uh just shadowed for a day. I said, uh, let me just shadow for a day because I don't want to just keep finding companies and leaving.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

And so I was like, I'll come shadow you. So I shadowed for a day, and I was like, no, I want to be here. Oh my god. Um so we talked about, you know, what my commission split was because again, I'm still pretty green in the industry. And so we decided on on, you know, the commission split was not in my it wasn't better for me, you know. It and so, but I knew that instead of starting out with a giant commission or giant giant split, you know, I would be getting a lot of resources, right? And that was really important to me. Yeah, especially when you're new in the industry, you have to understand what's the cost benefit here. Is it better for me to get a hundred percent of zero? Or is it better for me to get 50% of 20? Right, right? 50% of 20 is a lot better than 100% of zero. And so working for her, I got to touch all of her files. And this is 2020. So 2020, business was crazy. Yeah. Um I was getting to work on up to 40 to 80. Like personally, I was working on 40. I was working on half of her pipeline pretty much. So I was working on 40 loans a month. Wow. Going into the industry. I'm learning quick, right? Yeah. And then on top of that, I'm getting my own clients. And she's literally sitting right next to me, showing me how to process. Oh my gosh, that's showing me how to calculate income. Or where someone, she's like, you see this on the tax return, someone would forget this. Or this, you don't want to include this income because it will add more problems later on. She's teaching me all of these things that are invaluable in our industry that you do not get unless you have a mentor. She wasn't just hiring me to be an assistant, she was hiring me to be a loan assistant and to be a mentee. Yeah. That's what she was hiring you to be. And um To raise the next generation. To raise the next generation. And so it was just, it was eye-opening. It was an experience like no other. And I'm working on this team, and she I really enjoyed the fact that it was a small brokerage because then I got to have a voice on things. Yeah. So when I noticed something that I didn't understand in the system, I'd be like, hey, why do we do it like this instead of this? And instead of her taking it as criticism, she's like, huh. Yeah, let's try it that way. And so I was able to implement things. Or I was like, hey, in this area, because we have a large team, we should have a standard operating procedure. Yeah. She's like, okay, do you want to write it? And I was like, yeah, I do. So I was able to create standard operating procedures. Oh my gosh, that's so great. And and I'm a nerd, I'm a total nerd. I'll admit that any day. I I like knowing procedures. I like knowing how things are going to flow. Yeah. And she did too. And so the fact that it was a living company that we were able to make changes of. And then when we were hiring, she finally asked me, she's like, Would you manage a team? So then I there I was teaching new people and in a very short period of time. Yeah. And being able to lead a team and then being able to help them and get them to grow and help them get licensed. I mean, it was it was a great experience. Um, and it, you know, working for her, I was able to get her logins to programs or like learning things. Like she was paying to be a part of a big mentoring program that would usually cost you thousands of dollars to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

And I didn't have that.

unknown 39:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

And she was giving me her logins and letting me look at it and kind of see what's happening so I can learn from it too. I mean, that was great. Yeah. Um, and so, and as I got better, my commission split changed, right? And so my commission split is evolving with me.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

And, you know, I I'm not gonna lie, I get calls. I get calls from different um brokerages out there who are like, hey, join our team and we'll only charge you $600 a file. And sure, $600? You're only gonna charge me $600 a file, like for a closing on paper. On paper, that sounds phenomenal. Yeah. But then I'm like, what's my access to your broker? Yeah. Do I get one-on-one time? When I have an issue, who am I contacting? Who are my processors? Do I have to use your processors? These are all the questions that you need to ask, right? Same with a same when you're joining a different real estate. You know, do I have to use your TC? Do I can I use my own TC? Like, what are like what are the rules and regulations of your office? Right. And I've thought about that a lot. And what it comes down to is I still find my current setup to be better than what's out there. Yeah. And so I I and Lori and I talk about this constantly. I I've mentioned that I want to get my broker's license and I'm gonna get my broker's license this year. And instead of Lori taking that as a as a competition, Lori has been like, hell yes, you need to do this for yourself. I love that. And what a supportive environment. What a supportive environment. And the fact that I even if I get my broker's license, I can stay on her team, but I have that. Right. Um, is is so helpful. Yeah. And I I don't see myself leaving because I I think it's a really good setup that I have. Yeah. I have a great support system. Um, I get all of her wealth and knowledge. She was an underwriter, she's been a processor.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Like go listen to her episode if you haven't already.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Um, and I just I take full advantage of it. And and now, even so, I'm learning how to be a processor and helping process um other files now. And so, like, you know, it's it's really interesting. It's really interesting to see this growth within this career of mine. Um and I I think for me, I stay because of the the learning opportunities. I think that the learning opportunities are more important than the potential more quote unquote income. Yeah. And I say quote unquote because it there's no guarantee, right? Right. And so, um, anyways, that's kind of my journey, long story long.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

I love it. No, it's it's um gosh, it doesn't matter how many times I hear your story. I feel like I continue to learn new little tidbits every time I hear it. I love that. Yeah, you didn't know that I was almost conned into a culty harem mortgage company? I was unaware of that one. That's that's pretty good. I like that. I mean, I don't like that. I mean, I was entertained by that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

All right. So you've heard my journey. You've heard me yap for quite a bit of time. We love it. Amanda, yes, what's your journey?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Okay, so I have also been through multiple brokerages, and sometimes, well, it used to be kind of embarrassing for me because it's um it's the stereotype in real estate of the the agents that that jump around on broke uh brokerages are the ones that aren't making any money. And so they always think the grass is greener, the grass is greener, the grass is greener, and so they hop like a little bunny through all of the little brokerages and never make money and expect that uh that the next brokerage will be the one that changes it all. However, I don't feel like I feel as though I've had very valid reasons for all of my changes. And so I guess I don't know. You guys, you guys can all determine after listening to my story if if it was valid or not, or if I'm just a little bunny hopping from uh brokerage to brokerage. Little bunny foo foo hop into the forest. Jackson was singing that song to me this week, and I'm like, that is such a terrible song. Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. Okay. Anyway. Uh okay, so for me, I was licensed. I it's funny that you mentioned Thanksgiving Day of 2020. Because I know where I was on Thanksgiving Day of 2020, I was on my father-in-law and mother-in-law's couch purchasing a group on to get my real estate license, all of the like, look at us. I know we were we were busy on Thanksgiving Day of 2020. And so I started the journey then, and my whole thought process was okay, I my son was born in 2019. I hadn't worked in 2020 uh because of COVID. And my career before kids was I was a A behavior analyst, a board certified behavior analyst. I had some experience in marriage and family therapy, uh, very much helping helping fields, going back to being drawn to helping people. But also very emotionally draining jobs. And I knew that with kids, I was not going to be able to continue on that trajectory of uh of being a BCBA or being a therapist. Yeah. So this was kind of my pivot where I was looking for a career that would be somewhat flexible for me to continue to be the primary parent that would allow me, I could ease into it because at the time I was essentially a stay-at-home mom. And so I didn't have like that pressure to make money right now. It was something I could possibly ease into. And um, and yeah, I've always kind of been like had this inkling of uh my growing up, my roommate in not growing up, my roommate in college. Her dad was a broker in the East Bay. And so in the summers, she'd go and work for her dad, and I was always fascinated by what she was doing. But I never like I went and I was a summer camp counselor every summer, so I didn't get to experience it. Wait, you were a summer camp counselor? For many a summers. That fits so well. Rascal was my camp, was my name, the name of my my camp name. Oh, I'm definitely calling her Rascal for now on.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

I love coming up with names for people. I made up a name for her husband recently that I thought was really funny. Wait, you did? Do I like it? I told you it. Wait, did you? Juror number nine.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Oh that was so good. He was on jury doody and he was juror number nine, and she she called him that for the next three weeks. All right, Rascal, continue. Oh my God. Okay. Yes. Okay, so um, all that to say, that was like how I got into real estate. So then I was licensed when I was nine months pregnant with Maya, with my second. And so that would have been in August-ish, I would have been licensed. So come September and October, I was trying to figure out, okay, after the newborn phase, like, you know, wore wore off just a tiny bit, I needed to find a brokerage to hang my hang my license with. So you were looking on LinkedIn. I was looking on Indeed. So here I am on Indeed. And I don't know, I think what I was looking for was like if there was a way, if there was, I I essentially wanted to be a an assistant. Yeah. I wanted to find a a real estate broker who was looking for an assistant that I could maybe do part-time stuff like remotely, help them out, learn the business.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

It's the small way and in my opinion, the smart way of entering an industry.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of what I was looking for. I found a broker on there that was looking, I think they said that they were looking for real estate assistant. I'm pretty sure was the title of their post. And their brokerage was based in Reading, California, which is about three hours north of us, but they were expanding into Sacramento. And the idea was this broker wanted to be able to uh to market to sellers in Sacramento, and he needed an agent licensed in Sacramento to go to listing appointments to do so he would get the client, and then I would be doing all of the stuff for his clients in the area. That was the um, that was how he sold it. Sold it. Yes. And the split was very bad. I mean, it was like, I mean, but you know, I th I was like, I'm just getting started. I just want the experience. This sounds like it could be a good thing, you know. I could, I could also work with my own clients. Yeah. So I work with this brokerage. I was with them for about nine months, I think, and worked with one client that was my client, my listing, and had zero help. And I got fined for my listing because I didn't upload after I signed the listing agreement. I didn't upload it into the MLS in the amount of time that is specified in the MLS because I didn't have anyone guiding me appropriately. And they have a different MLS up there, so maybe the rules are not even the same. Oh my gosh. I was able to get the fine waived, but yeah, um, but it was still like one of those things where I was like, I if I'm gonna be getting my own clients, I need someone who can actually guide me and knows what's go know what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Let's rewind. For nine months, he didn't get a single client down here.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

No. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Okay. So this brokerage, though, it was part of a larger brokerage. I see. So it's kind of like a it's a multiple umbrella situation where there's this tech brokerage that that will hold all of the liability for these smaller brokerages that are actually teams, like real estate teams, but they operate as independent brokerages without having the liability because they have this umbrella company over them. And so over my time working with this guy, I found out that there were actually local teams, miniature brokerages, that were under the same umbrella company. Yeah. And so I interviewed with one of them that was based out of Folsom, and I switched them. So, like technically, I was still under the same parent umbrella company, but I was switching to something that was more local. My idea, the thought process was um, I need, I need the, I need the local support, I need the guidance. They had an in-person office, they did monthly meetings, they had mentorship opportunities, they they're all really cool people. Like it was a good family system, very like family group. But I was very clear when I switched brokerages, I said, hey, look, I have like a six-month-old. Like, I'm not gonna be able to go guns blazing right now. It's gonna be a slow burn for me and I'm gonna build up. And I do think that I have a career in real estate. I do think I'm gonna be successful in this, but you just have to understand it's gonna take me probably about three years for me to get there. Yeah. And I was under the assumption that we were all on the same page with that. Unfortunately, um 11 months later, when I was on vacation with my family, I got a phone call from one of my mentors. Uh, he was in charge of like the agents in the office, and he said, Hey, you've been here 11 months and you haven't sold anything. And I said, Well, as we discussed when I got hired, like my my pro my thought process is I want to be with a brokerage that is teaching me things and is like, and I'm creating a foundation right now, and it's kind of a slow build for me.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Uh that this particular brokerage was also big with Zillow Flex. Um, they were a Zillow Flex team. Yeah. So they were getting a lot of Zillow um leads, and that was like they gave those leads to their agents.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Can we explain what Zillow Flex is for the layman person? Because I think a lot of people think that when you're going on Zillow and you're saying you want to view a house, that you're viewing it with the listing.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Yeah. Instead, when you click on that book a tour, it's going to agents who it's going to brokerages and teams and agents who pay a buttload of money to get these leads directed to their phone. And then it's sent to like for ours, uh, if you were in a zip code, all five agents who were assigned to that zip code in the office, all of our phones would ring at the same time. And whoever picked it up first got that lead, you would meet them at the house. And if you could secure them as a client, then they were your client. And then you would feed, um, you'd have your split with your brokerage of how much money um you were paying for a client. And then you would also, on top of that, right off the top, you would give, I think at the time it was 30% of your commission. It's now up to 45% of your commission goes to Zillow. So they are charging people to be the connector, but um they're also getting these clients in a some would say lawsuits that have been filed would say maybe not the most ethical way when you think that you're reaching out to the listing agent and instead you're being rerouted to Joe Schmoe, who just happens to have.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

I just wanted people to understand that because I I I have friends even who said, Oh, we just wanted to view this house, so we just clicked it.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

And I'm like, I have to tell you, one of my friends, so I okay, so I think that being on a Zillow team, if it it's run correctly, which this brokerage ran it correctly, it's really valuable. It's a great way to get a lot of clients really fast. We talk about, you know, uh short-term bucket of clients and long-term bucket of clients. I was working on my long-term bucket of clients. I didn't have anything for short-term. Zillow leads are great short-term, fast money. But you're you're having to pay an arm and a leg for them. Uh, I didn't have to. The brokerage was, and then you have to give them a split. Um funny story. One of the gals on this team, she she once picked up a Zillow lead, and she was, she was getting the person, like she said hello, and then all of a sudden she was like, Is this Christy? And the person on the other phone is like, so-and-so, is that you? Her cousin had pushed the button on Zillows. That's crazy. And she happened to pick up and she's like, God damn it, now I have to give a 45% to Zillow for you to be my client when you know that at our family restaurant, my name saying that I am a real estate agent is right on the wall there. You know that I'm in real estate. Anyway, that was a sad story. But it was kind of funny. That's hilarious. I'll never forget that one. Uh that was that was that was a good one. Um anyway, all that to say, um I couldn't do Zillow leads with this team because I had a six-month-old. I didn't know when she was being gonna be crying, or if I picked up, would she start crying? Or what you know, it's just and then a lot of times people want to see the house right then or they want to see it that night. And so I never took the Zillow leads. And so because I wasn't taking these Zillow leads for these small wins, these fast wins, I didn't close any clients in 11 in the 11 months that I had been with this brokerage. So on that phone conversation, uh, I was told I either needed to move to inactive and just be what they call a referral agent. So that if anyone said that they wanted to buy or sell, I would refer them to another agent on the team and I would just get a cut for referring, or I needed to move on. And um after a lot of crying and being really upset, you were on vacation. And I was on vacation. I I remember I got I took the phone call. We were in um uh what is we were in San Diego at the shops down there. Oh, it's not Newport Beach, but there's like some fancy shops in San Diego. And I just remember Michael was paying for parking and he's like staring at me from the driver's side, and I'm like talking on the phone, trying to keep it together in a hang up, and then I just start bawling and I'm like, I'm so mad as I'm crying because I'm uh I I cry when I get mad. Yeah. Um just because of the misunderstandings. Um so anyway, when I got home, I called the actual broker, the actual uh owner of the company, just because this guy was not technically the broker. And I was like, I'm being told this. Is this correct? And he's like, Yeah, unfortunately. Like, which what I didn't know at the time was this parent brokerage is charging these teams for every agent that is on uh their team. So I was costing this brokerage money, but I didn't really know that. No. And I thought I had been clearer that it was gonna take me time, but maybe they thought they were like, yeah, it's okay if it takes you time, but we still expect, you know, one or two. But that's communication comes. Communication's huge. Yeah. Yeah. So we all drop the ball on that one. Um, I still, I'm still friends with that, with that brokerage. Like after I got over being PO'd that I got kicked off the team, like um, they're great people. They are still doing great stuff. They still, um, I I would still recommend people to them if they're looking for a team environment and need leads handed to them and are in a position where they could take like Zillow leads, like they're awesome. They're fantastic. No, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

I we talked about buckets, short-term bucket Zillow leads are a great option. It's just it's it's a little hard for a primary parent with kids not in school.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had, I had, I got so you know, I from my first brokerage to my second brokerage, I gained that uh that knowledge of having a local team, but what I lacked was the um was the I guess communication or expectations of what of how quickly I needed to start. So from there, I found a third team under the same umbrella brokerage. I didn't know that all of them were with the same umbrella brokerage. Yes. Yes. And if anyone is in real estate, so the umbrella brokerage is side, side ink. They're based out of San Francisco. You won't see their name on anything. The the way, the, the tattletale mark that these are all that all of these brokerages are all these teams, all these brokerages teams are under the same, is that when you go on their website and you look at the managing broker, it's all the same person. So that was how I I was finding I was just like hunting Sacramento real like best real estate agents in Sacramento, and I'd pull up someone's website and I'd see who the managing broker was. And if it was this particular person, I'd be like, oh, they're a part of the side community. Why did you want to stay with the side community? Because I really liked their back end stack.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

Like their technology, I really enjoyed their training. I really enjoyed everything I knew. I they were the only technology's a huge part, by the way. So because it was this parent company, all of the back end was the same. So I wasn't re-learning. I wasn't re-like, I knew all the back-end stuff because it was all the same. I knew how to log into the meetings with the brokers who were doing the trainings. I knew how to access everything. I knew they provided follow-up boss as a CRM, which is a a really, well, it was before it was bought by Zillow. It was a really popular one in our in real estate community. And so all of the back-end stuff was the was the same. And I liked all of the back-end stuff. And so for me, it was about finding the team that really provided that that niche fit that like, and so I was like, okay, third time's a charm. Let's try another one. And uh the gal that I joined, she was a team, a brokerage, but it was just her, her and one other agent. And so I would have been the second agent. And so it was like, I really liked that, it was this really um connected feel, like a really small family feel. Yeah. She, I was very clear with her. I was like, apparently, I was not clear with the last people. I'm gonna be super fucking clear with you that like I do not know how long it's gonna take for me to get to build my client base. Uh, and you need to be okay with that. And she's like, yeah, like not a problem. Like, I totally understand. And she's like, I actually do get because her team has had really optimized Google. And so she pops up all the time at the top of Google searches for people. So she gets and they do, and and her um, and she pays for a lot of um third-party sites that are not Zillow. So there are other third party sites that will feed leads to uh to brokers. And so she paid for a lot of these other third party sites, and she's like, I just, you know, I need I need another pair of hands to like help me go to inspection, like cover inspections for me, or you know, eventually I'm gonna start a family and I'm gonna need someone to cover me during my maternity leave, this, that, or the other. So I was like, great. Like this sounds again, invaluable experience for you. Yes, so great. So I joined her, learned so much. Was I I met some of my favorite vendors through her. Uh, she did go on maternity leave, and I worked like all of her clients because it was just me and another gal. So, like, and and so we were able to, I got a lot of experience. Um, and I I did a full year with her. And when she came back from maternity, she ended up getting pregnant and having her baby. And so, you know, we bonded over.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Which good for her, which is good for her because in our industry, getting maternity leave is like almost unheard of.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yeah, she like legit took like three months off. Like unheard of. Yeah. How wait, how how many, how, how long was that before you sent that email or we're calling? Is that like three hours?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah. After I gave birth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Yeah, because you were doing it from the no, from the the hospital bed. Yeah. So I am I'm really proud of her and and she has created something really amazing. But when she came back from maternity leave, I wanted um, I wanted to know what my trajectory was in her, because you know, I had just provided quite a bit of support for her while she was on maternity leave. And so I was hoping that now that I had more uh transactions under my belt, that my split would be increased.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Because it was like, Because also you were doing your own loans, doing you're doing your own homes at this time as well. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

So I was bringing in my own clients. Uh, she was probably providing two-thirds of the clients that I was working with with. I brought in another third. And so I, you know, I was asking, like, hey, what do you need to see before we're ready to move to the next split? And unfortunately, the response was that I needed to bring in X amount of personal clients before she before she would consider a split. Not, and for me, when I looked at the numbers, I realized even if I did the numbers I was doing now for client, like the numbers I was doing, just that one third, but at a brokerage with a higher split, I would be making more than I was doing a hundred percent with her, if you count like, you know, the two-thirds from her plus me. Because there was this one, I think I've talked about this story before of one of her third-party leads. So it was a lead from her, but she had bought it from a like a different lead source. And after all of the splits were taken out, it was $800 in my bank account, which in our industry is not typical for a commission check.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

And it was like also that's that's that's below minimum wage. Like when you look at the amount of time spent like on what you did for that file, like the time you spent driving, visiting, doing things, it's it's below minimum wage.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

Yeah. And and so, you know, I was hoping that it would work out with her, uh, but I knew once she like laid it out for me of what would be required to get a higher split that I needed to, it was time for me to move on. Yeah. That the the time had come. And we're gonna talk about um like what you can those signs that it's time to leave. And that that um capping out ceiling, like hitting that ceiling is one of those times that, and for me, I had I had essentially met my ceiling with this team. And so I am how are we doing on time? We're we're plugging away. This can't be a long one. That's okay. After we tell our stories, I think that we're gonna be a little bit more succinct with our bullet points. But it's good. I think our stories are good. Yeah. And I think people enjoy hearing our stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

I think I think so. Um, and I think it's good to people hear people say here that they're not alone. Like you said, people sometimes are little bunnies hopping around and they feel bad about it. But yeah, I think hearing how you did it and how you've now grown from it, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so once I realized emotionally, mentally, that I was gonna need to leave, I am I'm one of those people who I am a self starter, I am a self educator. So I went on some Reddit rabbit holes. We both love Red Reddit, by the way. Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with Reddit. And one of uh our clients that I got found me through Reddit. So that's good. So which is funny because I think she found me on like a uh 10 things to do, like to get your kids for Christmas post in the Sacramento subreddit. So it wasn't even like a necessarily real estate related, but it it connected us and it's fantastic. And now she's now she gave me um hand-me-down clothes from my daughter, from her daughter, and Miss Maya loves wearing the clothes that she was given from her daughter. So yeah, anyway. Reddit. Creating, creating relationships and clients. And anyway, so I am uh I I went down Reddit rabbit holes. I went on YouTube and I watched a ton of videos on YouTube. I found I and then I started listening to podcasts. So uh real estate podcasts. So between the three of those, I found um a gal named Allie. She goes by Allie the Agent. She is a part of EXP Realty. And so I binge watched every single one of her YouTube videos. Like she has a whole series. She uh she's big about helping people use YouTube to find clients and use videos to find clients. She was on multiple podcasts that I listened to as a guest on the podcast. She um, like right now, I think she's been abroad for like three months or four months and she's just working remotely. Kill it, girl. And she actually has like agents that she works with. So she hasn't lived in Tucson, Arizona for years. She actually like lived in lived in Minnesota the last couple of years, but she had her um Arizona license. And so she would partner with agents in Arizona to do like showings for her and and be present for inspections. And she works like 30 to 50% of her clients are buyers in Tucson, Arizona. That's crazy. That she's great. That she works with remotely. Yeah. So anyway, all of this, I'm figuring out all about her. And I'm like, you know what? I think EXP might be a good fit for me. Which, you know, in in the real estate industry, EXP is like called the MLM of real estate, and people have really bad negative things to say about EXP. But I always found myself like, even I, you know, I looked at them when I was first looking at brokerages, and I'm like, this all sounds great. It's just like for some reason people are calling them the M MLM of real estate because you get if you if you bring an agent into the fold, you get a percentage of their commission that from the brokerage. And so, you know, of course, if with in the wrong hands, it can be kind of slimy and and it can be MLM-y. But um, but like what I loved about what Allie was doing is she had a whole channel dedicated to agents explaining EXP, explaining how she gets clients from YouTube, explaining like do giving all of this education. She's giving the secret sauce out. She's giving the secret sauce out, and it's a you have to come to me situation. You she has a link on her on her YouTube, and she said, Hey, if this resonates with you, if you want to join us here at EXP, book a call with me. And then you have to answer like 10 questions in order to even book a call with her. And so you're getting really people people who are self-motivated in order. And so all of this seemed like right up my alley. No pun intended. So I scheduled a call with Allie, and it ended up, I I felt like it was a really gonna be a really great fit. And so I onboarded with EXP, and I have been with them now for almost a year and a half. And it's amazing. I love it so much. I've seen you through a bit of these seasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

Yes. Because Yeah, we met. Yeah. We met at the at pretty much the beginning of everything. Yeah. And so I I remember you making the switch to EXP, and I remember the burnout you were feeling prior and seeing the switch up afterwards. It it was it was noticeable. So it was as a friend, as a friend and as a business partner, it was noticeable. Like I felt like you were less stressed, and I felt like you felt more um not respected, but you were you're feeling more.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

I definitely felt more empowered. Empowered. There we go. I I was doing half the amount of work and making double the money. Yep. Half the amount of work making double the money. That's insane.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

That's great. That's like you don't understand. Like she's a hard worker. She she's not, it's not like she's complaining about working. It's just the fact that now she's being given the accolades and the financial benefit that you should have been getting at.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Yeah. Well, and also it allowed me to make the same amount of money, make double the amount of money, but still have extra time to be primary parents. Yeah. And EXP is the first brokerage that I've been with where that has a cap. So for those who are unfamiliar, a cap means every year after you give your brokerage a certain amount of money, if EXP, it's $16,000 of your, you know, of your commission, then the rest of your anniversary year, the rest of your year, you get to take 100% of your commission home. That's unheard of. With side, there was no cap. So it didn't matter how many deals I did, they were always gonna pull a split from me. They were always gonna take 30, 40, 50% of my check from me.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

So to get to a point where I could have 100% for, and I I think I did one or two deals last year after I capped. And then I'm curious to see when I capp this year. I have the thing about this year is I have so many clients that are ready to buy, but the inventory is just not there right now. And so I'm dying because I have these, they're just circling. My buyers are circling, just rating, waiting to pounce on the right house. And so, you know, I'm I'm waiting. Haven't made that, we haven't made these deals yet, but they're they're in the pipeline. They're ready to it's gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

It's gonna get there, especially with how interest rates have lowered in the recent weeks. Yeah. It there's a lot of people who have homes that they've been wanting to sell, but they wanted to have competition for it. Yeah. And I think I think everyone was everyone was kind of like like back and forth. Are you moving? Yeah. Am I moving? Are you moving? Yeah, yeah. I think the movement's starting.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

I think so too. I noticed as soon as Super Bowl passed.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

It's like that every year, baby. Super Bowl is my Sunday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

Super Bowl, and then the following week, and then last week, things like really picked up again. And so now that we're in March, I'm hoping March, April, and May are like slam dunk months. That's my fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

I would say that Super Bowl Sunday and Valentine's weekend, those usually are my like startup of when I see my applications uptick.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Oh, interesting. What do you what's the correlation with Valentine's? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:08

No, I have no idea. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Maybe love in the air and they're like, let's buy a house.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

I have no idea. But um, I think it's just because the holiday seasons are over. Yeah, like officially. Yeah, seasons are over. January, I feel like is everyone's doing the new year, new me, I'm cleaning things up. And then after they've done clean cleaning things up, getting themselves restarted, now they're like, okay, I can start making these moves. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And also interest rates usually lower in January. That's usually when they start. And so I think with the interest rates lowering, people realizing it, that's what I think, yeah. So Valentine's Day Super Bowl Sunday is right when my applications start picking up again.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:43

All right. Good to know. Interesting. And in regards to will I switch brokerages ever? Who knows? Maybe someday. Right now, I'm getting everything that I need from my brokerage, plus some, and I love the community. And uh I haven't hit hit any plateau yet. Uh I certainly have brokerages that are courting me. Some more than others. Some I get I get calls and texts from on a monthly basis. Some and don't stop. I know, I know. Don't stop. I love it. I love it. It makes me blush every time. Um, but I just I maybe someday uh it's that cost benefit, right? That we've talked about too of maybe someday EXP won't give me what I'm looking for. And another brokerage, a local brokerage, may provide something invaluable that I'm not getting right now. Yeah. But as of right now, I have steady clients. I'm in Master's Club, so obviously I'm doing something right on my own. And uh I have a strong network and community in in uh in the nation across the nation.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

So what I really liked what you told me about about your your current brokerage is that when you have a question, there's multiple brokers. So you can easily get on a call and ask someone a a question.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

And I also really like how you've told me how they go over the contracts monthly. Weekly. Weekly, sorry, weekly. And they they they kind of like, okay, where did we lay off last week? Here's where we are, and then when they keep going over it. And they cycle through them. And they cycle through it. Yeah, I think those are two pieces that you've explained to me about your brokerage that I thought, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:28

Yeah. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

I see. I guess we should probably continue on with our with our outline if we're ever gonna or we're this is gonna turn into a two-hour podcast. Yeah, nobody got time for that. No, sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:42

Um, okay, so one thing we wanted to talk about was the we mentioned it in the intro was the per perfect fit checklist, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

Um, how to like because because when you first get licensed or when you're considering a move, it's so overwhelming. Yeah. Like if it's it's all brand new, you don't even know what you're doing. How do you know what to look for in a brokerage? And I would be curious if what you look for from a brokerage on a mortgage side, how much it differs from what I would look for as an agent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

I'm interested too. Um, I feel like there's a lot of similarities in our industry. Okay. And there's a lot of similarities between you and me. Yeah. But there's also differences. Yeah. And so yeah, I'm interested too. Uh, we talked about this quite a few times, but the split versus value.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

Yes. And I wonder, this is probably for both of them for um mortgage and for real estate. Yeah. But like, yeah, what do you all brokerages offer different splits? It can be from usually the the lowest I see on the real estate side is 50-50 up to I've I there are some companies that do a hundred percent split and you just pay like a a flat fee in for each file. Um, but it's really important to look at what value are you getting for that split. So sometimes, like with my third brokerage, yeah, my split was lower with her, but I was getting hands in files, right? I was getting hands in transactions, I was able to meet vendors more frequently. I was getting, I was learning a lot, and it was well worth it, as opposed to, like you said, 100% of zero is zero. That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

So when I joined uh Hawkins Home Loans, um, I joined with a 60-40 split. Um, so I was getting 60%, the brokerage was getting 40%. But the thing is, that was a time when we were having, I was hands in 40 of her files. Yeah. So I was, I was, I also had, so again, I was her assistant. So I was getting my hourly pay plus I was getting a small portion of commission off of her loans. Okay. On top of getting 60% of my loans. So you were getting 60 40, 60 40 on my own loans, I was getting a small proportion on her loans, and I was getting an hourly pay. Okay. So for me, starting out, that was a perfect setup.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

Right? Um, that was a setup for me that I was getting my own clients, building my own database, getting literally handholding me through the process. And then I was also getting to work on all of her files, yet still making a little bit extra too.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:22

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:23

Right? Yeah. So for me, and honestly, I'm maybe this is me going ahead, but I would love to do that for someone. Like I that would be my dream. Yeah. And so, anyways, um, it was a great setup. I was able to learn a lot. Again, 60-40 split, not the prettiest.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

I've been any everywhere from 50-50 split to EXP is a flat 80-20 split. Yeah. Uh, until you hit that cap. And so I've been, I've had splits all up and down that. And so that for me, the value made up for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:56

And that value. Yeah. Yeah. But luckily, my brokerage was able to evolve with me as I matured and I grew up, I grew in my industry. Yeah. And I'm gonna be very candid. Um, I'm now at an 80-20 split. Okay. Um, and I still help out with her files and get a portion of her splits on those as well. Um, and that's grown too because I'm doing more. Yeah. And so for me, this makes total sense. Yeah. So um, and and maybe there'll be a point where I'm like, okay, now I need to focus on only my files. Maybe that point will come. But right now, an 80-20 split, which again, I have a broker with tons of knowledge. She's not someone who just sits there waiting for files to come through. She's, you know, deep hands deep in her own files. Yeah. I have her in my corner reminding me if I'm thinking having the right logic loop going on, or if I'm I'm like, no, don't do that. You know, I have I have someone doing that for me. And so for me, the value is still there.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:54

Well, it's essentially paying 20% for a uh a supervisor. Or or however you want to like a second pair of eyes.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:02

Second pair of eyes. Yeah, absolutely. Do you and that covers my processing fee too? Okay. So I'm not paying additional processing fees or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:11

In mortgage, do any brokers offer a cap like we do in real estate? Or do so do some companies or not really?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

No, no one offers a cap that I know of. Maybe someone does. Um, there is that company I mentioned who charges $695 flat fee. So they're like, just pay us $695 for a closed transaction and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

But they but they're probably not providing like anything. They're not providing a processor, they're not providing any guidance, they're not providing any of that stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:40

I noticed that on the real estate side too, is like the flat fee brokerages. What are they offering a CRM? Are they cover are doing what about ENO insurance? Are they like what are they covering? How what is the training? How much training are they giving? And usually it's not much.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

If you're someone who's like, I don't want to learn anyone else's way by the way but the way that I want to learn. And you already have all of your systems in place. All of your marketing. Yeah. If you if you have all of that, then that's the option for you. Yeah. But again, at that point, I ask, why not just found your own broker?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

Okay, but I don't think I ever want to be a broker because I don't want the liability. I always want to pass the buck on someone else. I don't want to be the under side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Okay. Okay. Could you be a broker under side?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:32

I could. I I mean, now my eyes have opened up and I don't think that side is I I don't think that their system is as great as I thought it was when I you know I'm just asking under that kind of system. In fact, my second brokerage that I went with, that team moved to EXP. They moved their team to EXP. Really? Yeah. So now they're under EXP. And you can be a solo agent with EXP or you can be on a team with EXP. Yeah. Depending on if you need extra support and you can have with the team a different split than with EXP.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:08

The more you know.

unknown 1:23:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:10

So so that so split versus value. Okay. So so I still feel that 80-20 split, no cap or there's no cap with direct contact with my broker and support makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:27

Okay, so then the next thing I would say, which we have already touched on a little bit, is that culture and community, right? Like it what is that culture? Who are you aligning yourself with? What are you learning from them? Do you need in person or are you okay? Like for the real estate side, uh, EXP is a remote brokerage, cloud-based is what they call it, where you're doing everything from your kitchen table. Like there's not, but some people really love that. I really love that being a primary parent. Other people really want an office that they can show up at every day and have that community in that way. So you have to figure out what is important to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:06

Yeah, I had an agent tell me they're like, if I do not go in the office every single day, I'm not getting work done.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:11

Yeah. And I would tell that agent, EXP is now for you. Yeah. I don't want everyone to come to EXP. I want people who are gonna thrive at EXP. EXP. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:21

And then on top of it, you know, when you go in person, when you do want an in-person office, sometimes you're paying a monthly fee, right? So I had an agent tell me that to join her team, she has to pay $110 a month for um like for the office fee. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, Yeah, whether I close a loan or not, I'm paying this monthly fee for the office.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:42

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:42

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:43

Does she have her own desk at least?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:44

I've told her to contact you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:46

Okay. Oh man. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hopefully she does. Um, yeah. Okay. And then the third thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Well, I was also gonna say with culture and community, um, earlier the no last year, um, an agent asked me if I would go door knocking with them. And I was like, sure. You know, like I have no problem. Sure. I'll go I'll go door knocking around your neighborhood with you. You're you're the person to bring if you're gonna go door knocking. And um, they are wearing the name of their brokerage on their shirt, and it's a larger brokerage.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

And we get to a door, and it was a guy, and he was an appraiser. And he says, Oh, you're with such and such. And he says, Aren't you guys dealing with a few lawsuits right now? Oh, dang, burn. And so that's also something you have to consider, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:42

Who you attack, yeah, who you attach your name to absolutely matters. You get one thing in this world and it's your name. And it's it's who you are, you who you are. Dang. And if you're attaching yourself to someone and it has bad PR currently, that sucks though.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:59

Cause like, I mean, it it I think your your point is very valid, but it does suck of like as an agent, you're not the broker, but you are deciding to hang your license under that broker. Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:12

Yeah. So sorry, I want to bring that up with with uh with the community.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

Yeah. Dang.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:19

Last is uh you kind of mentioned this recent earlier, and I wanted to touch on it too. Tech. Yes. So in mortgage, there are like four main POS systems. Okay. Uh the one that I use and I do not want to change. If for some reason my brokerage closed and I had to join another one, I would have to find one that uses this same POS system to arrive. Yeah. So there we used to all use uh yes, you all used to use point. Okay. Calyx. Calyx looks like I'm driving a beat up 1998 Honda Civic with a broken stick that's wobbly. Like, I mean, like see, these are the questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

Now someone who might be interviewing brokerages will be able to say, yeah, which POS system are you using? It was bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:16

It was bad. And it would be so frustrating to use it, it just was so archaic. It looked like I was literally using like a big box computer again. And like I could hear like the modem sound in my head whenever I was using it. You know what I mean? Yep. And some people still use it. Painful. And so we switched over to Arrive. Okay. There's a few other ones out there, and I've tried I've been testing them out. You know, I'm I'm here's me. I'll be honest. I love what I got, but if something's better is out there, I'm not too big to change over. Sure. So I whenever I see a new POS and I hear people on the chat saying, Oh, this is the new POS, I check it out. Hasn't been better than Arrive yet. Okay. And again, I'm hypercritical. There's things I don't like right about Arrive. But the thing is, what I like about them is they're constantly making updates. And when people are complaining on the Facebook groups, they usually will get on fixing a problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

I like that. I like me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

I like that they're in tune to what's going on. But overall, you know, like you said with CRMs, you know, for me personally, I'm gonna choose my CRM. I don't care what a company is using. Okay. I'm always gonna pay for my own CRM. Okay. But also that's because I like having access to my book. Yes. At the end of the day, it's my book.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:30

Well, I have a story. Do we have time for a story? Please. Okay. First of all, your eyebrows are on fleek today. They look so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:37

Wow, thank you so much. Because I got my eyebrows threaded and I cried because I thought they didn't look good, and I tweezed them myself to make them look like this. So I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:45

They look amazing. I'm just like staring at you, and I'm like, oh my God. Your eyebrows look like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:51

But I went on a date, and the guy complimented my eyebrows, and I was like, that is such an

SPEAKER_00 1:28:55

compliment. So now you've had two compliments for your compliment. Now I have to remember what my story was that I was gonna I got distracted by an eyebrows.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:06

By the way when we when we I don't know if you guys have seen our photos from our photo shoot but we were we were taking our photos and they were like Lenny just like smile with your mouth closed and they were like okay don't don't try and have sex with a camera half of the half of our pictures look like we just got engaged in half of them look really professional.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:33

The other half may never see the light of day because we just look like we just got engaged and in a love fest. Okay tech. Okay what was my story? Damn it um we were talking about DRM yeah yes okay let me get situated let me roll my clips on a very silly day. You did and you're getting extra extra long podcast because of it. Okay so one of the brokerages that I was with um we used well so all of the side brokerages they used follow up boss as their CRM which is a really really nice interfaced CRM I don't trust it now that Zillow has purchased it but that's aside aside the point. But my one of my brokers that I worked with she had a an assistant who was like inside sales and she would uh she would filter all of like the clients and things like that for her for the broker but because it was such a small brokerage and all of our files were like connected under one hub she started calling all of my clients and she was saying things like um uh are you looking to buy or sell now for me when it comes to how I visualize files and clients I like to use Trello it's it's a just an um easy system for me there's an app it's online it I it has a board system I can move people to different lanes it's very easy interface for me but I like to use a CRM kind of like an address book like literally like an address book I was using it I I put everyone in there all of my family members in there so that I had everyone's addresses and phone numbers in one spot it was just easier for me. And so I was using it like an address book.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:34

And so all of a sudden this assistant is calling my aunt and asking well when are you looking to buy or sell in Sacramento? And people are calling me confused and I'm like oh my fucking this is so embarrassing. This is so embarrassing. This is not and so then I had to do tags and say do not call you know Amanda's lead do not call she continued to call them. And so I ended up having to pull them out of the CRM system completely. But just to your point of sometimes you are linked with your broker and you don't have full control over your CRM. And that was like a lesson that I learned the hard way of yeah it if it works well, you know it it is a nice place to have everyone's phone numbers, addresses you can put notes in there. I can like anything like sometimes as a mom I it's hard to remember things. And so just being able to put type little notes of like oh the last time I talked to this person, you know, I found out that so and so was engaged in this and that it's it's really handy if it's being used correctly. And when it's not all of a sudden it turns into no good.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:43

No bueno anyway that is a that's a that's a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

It was a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:50

We got through it though. Especially because you and I are so uh you and I aren't transaction based we're relationship based. Oh my god yeah and so how we talk to our clients and our people is very different than that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:02

Then how an inside sales rep is gonna talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:04

Yeah yeah yeah I can't imagine that I like like I that's not that's just not how I talk to people.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:11

I know anyways yeah is there any anything else on your perfect fit checklist that you feel we should touch on I'm just really big on someone meeting your same ethics like you it's really important that the company that you're with has the same values.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:29

Yeah like it's okay if you guys differ on how you execute but having the same values is really important. Yeah um or even if they don't do have the same values they respect your values yeah you know that's something really important to me um so and then oh another one that's the one I want to talk about communication communication style communication style I think that's the biggest one actually so I'm communication is really important to me I'm a very big communicator so if I'm with someone and they have a completely different communication style or it's one that I don't mesh with, there's no way I can work with you. You could have all three of the other things working but if the communication isn't there's no way we can move forward. Yeah so making sure that during that because when you're interviewing with a real estate brokerage or mortgage brokerage, you're not just in they're not interviewing you, you're interviewing them. Yes. And remembering that the entire time. Yes and making sure that when you're leaving that conversation you felt like you were heard and you understood them. If you don't feel that even if the other things are working out I don't think it's gonna be a good fit.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:32

Yes. I agree. That's it. Sweet. Let's kind of rapid fire through this next section which is when you might be considering a time seeing if it's time to move on from the brokerage that you're in. So you've already you're with a brokerage you've been with them for a little bit and what are some red flags uh that might show that it's time to move on so do you want me to go through the red flags and then you can go through some of the fear? Yeah. Does that work for you? All right so red flag number one is your growth stagnant or have you hit a ceiling on earnings? Like this is what I experienced when I was with a brokerage that didn't do a cap. Yeah. Uh lack of communication from leadership just like you just talked about that. So if the communication style maybe you thought that it was gonna work out but then over time you're like this is like I ask quite I can't access my broker I I'm not getting training. I'm not we're not communicating at all it might be a sign that you need to consider a move. Absolutely and then the other one is does technology feel like it's from 2005 this one's funny because when I was first uh checking out brokerages there are two local brokerages to the Sacramento region. I'm just gonna name them I'm just I'm I'm gonna lay it all out there. Um Lion and Lion I don't I think actually Lion might it might only be one brokerage Lion might be the only one I'm thinking of. I think there's another one though. Uh no I'm just gonna say Lion. So Lion Broker brokerage is uh local to Sacramento brokerage they were at the time when I was getting my license and I really really liked the idea of being with like a family owned brokerage that is that's been based out of Sacramento and that's it. But every time that I went to their website or I looked at their marketing I was like oh my God it's just so dated. Oh my God it just looks so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:34

It just hurt your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:35

It hurt my eyes no matter how much I tried to make it make sense I kept coming back to I cannot I mm mm it looks way too dated. And so I never I never gave Lion a consideration and I don't think they exist anymore. I think they got swallowed up by Windermere Windermere.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:53

Windermere we struggle with that I I want to say Windermere. Yeah and then when I go to type it in I'm like where's Windermere? Why aren't they popping up? It's Windermere there's an extra R in there. There's a lot of R's in that anyway okay so that's those are some red flags. Yeah and then you know obviously there's fear of leaving right there's you've already talked about some of those yeah absolutely the golden handcuffs you know like uh what's the cost of me rebranding what's the cost of me moving everything um let's say in your industry you know once a client is established they're established your client relationship established it is with you and the brokerage right and so like I'm in the middle of a listing like am I gonna have to wait until I have no listings to to move like such a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

Yeah. But also like the the pipeline like the CRM that you were saying. Yeah sometimes if you put something in a CRM that the oftentimes when you put something in a CRM that the broker provided they are in charge of that. So now they can take all of those clients when you leave and reach out. So yeah you can reach out to them but so can the broker.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:01

And then why staying in a bad fit is more expensive in the long run. We talked about that earlier with your transition. You know sure you were losing two thirds of the files you were working on. Yeah but what was the cost?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:16

There's definitely a fear to leaving but at the end of the day do you are you willing to put up with that short term pain for long term gain.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:27

And for me personally I consider am I still able to be a good parent if I stay in this that's something I consider that's a that's a good guiding light. Am I going to stay a good parent? Yeah because if you are struggling and you are hating life are you able to be a good parent no because then that struggle is at the forefront of your brain rather than join every moment with these kiddos.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:51

Yeah. So I I try and remember that um when I think of things I mean I haven't switched brokerages since having my kiddo but that's something I consider is but it still keeps you it's still top of mind to you I'm sure that you continue to come back to that of is I mean because even even with the best brokerages you still need to have that check-in with yourself every once in a while you don't want to get stagnant or lazy and be like is this still what's best for me and I can best for my family.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:18

I hope that everyone listening who works in our industry has a relationship with their brokerage where they can talk to them every six months and say because that's what I do. Lori and I do that every six months I'm like hey how's our relationship looking we still good like is there anything that I'm missing out on is there anything that you're missing out on are we are we happy? Lori asks me that all the time she like we were sitting down having uh lunch the other day and she's like hey do you feel like I'm like feeding what you need in order to grow I love that and like just having someone ask me that and genuinely care about my answer to it was it's important.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:53

So like when I think about the fear of leaving it's like as long as if you're if you're not currently getting that like those other fears are something that maybe should just be like put aside for right now so that you can get that next step. Yeah. Because growth is scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:11

Growth is really scary for sure. But scary isn't a bad thing always not at all. No well and if you've been listening to this and you're like you know what I am ready for a new change or I I do want to talk more about like what a brokerage change looks like or like just joining brokerage for the first time too. Like I I know we kind of ran out of time this episode to get deep in it but our DMs are always open and both of us are in positions where we're bringing people in to our our spaces our teams I mean you even mentioned it earlier this this episode that you're thinking of bringing on the next level next generation that you can mentor and I feel the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:53

Yeah and and I'm really big um I think just be the fact that I've had mentors in my life since middle school has made me feel like I like being a mentor.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:02

And so if if you're thinking about joining mortgage um and and you're thinking that might be the next step in your career or source of income, I'm happy to chat with you over coffee or if you're farther, we can chat over Zoom or phone. Yeah. And we can talk about what that looks like. I will tell you um I'm very selective on on what I can bring in to my space. But if you and I are a good vibe both ways, I'm happy to bring you in and figure out how I can kind of like how I was done for me like bring you into the fold, get you into files, getting used to it and then hopefully getting you to a spot where you can be your own L O.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:39

Yeah love that and I also uh if you go on my website exploreSacLiving.com um I have it's a really nice website by the way thanks I have a link uh for any agents that are interested in chatting about EXP and if that could be a good fit for you. So I'm happy you can schedule a call with me. I think for both of us um so I'll say this if you're gonna join us, it's self-starter. You need to be self-starter you need to be able to find out your own information you need to be able to have us tell you where to find information and then be able to go and dig it up. Like we ain't got time to hold hands over here. Obviously we will mentor and grow but it is with the expectation that you know we're spiraling up right so the more that we teach you and that doesn't mean you can't ask the same question twice but the more that we teach you, you continue to grow and you continue to build your own force and business. But even if that's not you and you just want someone to talk to you know just one conversation about like what should I be looking for in a brokerage? What should I be looking for if I want to do this career, we're happy to hop on one time calls with people even if you're not a good fit for coming into our fold necessarily.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:51

You're still part of the community. Oh totally. And let's say you're in a position where it's not a good fit for us particularly we know a lot of people in this industry and we can probably like guide you in the right direction to someone who would be the perfect match.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:04

Yeah yeah for sure. And that's what we love to do. We love being connectors. Yeah rising tides baby woo woo all right well we're gonna let you guys go thank you for hanging with us this was a fun one this was a really fun one yeah we were just so chatty we gotta we gotta record more frequently so that we're not doing two hours. Absolutely thank you all by you guys that's Realty Check real lives real estate and the conversations most people do not want to have we'll talk soon