Not just a Hairdresser | Presented by Ally from The Beauty Grail

5. Sheridan Rose Shaw: Building a Hairdressing Legacy

• Ally • Episode 5

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Sheridan Rose Shaw left school at 14 and found her way into hairdressing after struggling to fit into traditional education. What followed was far from a straight line. Over the next decade, she experienced career highs and personal lows, including addiction, homelessness, recovery, and the challenge of rebuilding her life from the ground up.

In this episode, Ally sits down with the founder of MAMAWEST to discuss the experiences that shaped her, the lessons learned through 13 years of sobriety, building an award-winning salon business, and why her biggest mission now is helping shape the next generation of hairdressers.


In this episode, we discuss:

  • Sheridan's unconventional path into hairdressing and the mentors who shaped her early career
  • Addiction, homelessness, recovery, and the experiences that transformed her life
  • What 13 years of sobriety taught her about leadership, accountability, and self-awareness
  • Building Mama West from a solo operation into one of Australia's most recognised salon brands
  • The challenges of scaling a creative business while maintaining strong commercial foundations
  • Why Timely alongside consultation systems, client experience, and data have become central to her business strategy
  • How motherhood has changed her perspective on ambition, success, and work-life balance
  • The importance of mentorship, community, and learning from people both inside and outside the industry
  • Letting go of hyper-independence and learning to receive support
  • The vision behind the newly announced Mama West Academy and her mission to improve apprenticeship education

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

SPEAKER_00

We are looking at a Mama West Academy. I've got a three hundred and thirty-six square meter space that I knew. I knew when I got this space it was too big. But I when I looked at getting half of it, it was too small. And now I'm having some very interesting conversations and especially my relationship as the creative consultant for Pivot Point and the resources and how much they've changed my apprentice my apprentices' lives right before my very eyes. I really want to scale that and be able to actually bring quality education back to the hairdressing industry.

SPEAKER_03

Have you ever had someone in your career call you just a hairdresser? Or sometimes you might struggle with your own internal dialogue? Welcome to the Beauty Grail podcast, the place where the industry's most curious, ambitious, and creative artists come to learn, grow, and stay inspired. I'm Ali, founder of the Beauty Grail, and in each episode we sit down with the artists, educators, and innovators shaping the future of the hair and beauty industry. From behind the chair to behind the brand, these are the stories, tools, and conversations designed to elevate you and your career. Because we all know you're not just a hairdresser. You're a business owner, a creative, an educator, a therapist, a content creator, and a chemist. The name of this podcast was inspired by our friend Natalie Ann. Some of you may remember she kicked off a social media series in 2025 called Not Just a Hairdresser. One of the biggest drivers behind creating the Beauty Grail was recognizing that the industry has world-level talent, but not everyone has equal access to learning from them. What excites me is giving every hairdresser from regional towns to big cities access to the kind of education and mentorship that changes careers. Joining me today is Sheridan Rose Shaw, founder of Mama West in Melbourne, educator, ambassador for Timely, Original Mineral, and Salon Snack Co. More recently, she's been appointed as creative consultant for Pivot Point, Vic hairdresser of the year finalist for 2024, 2025, and 2026, Victorian Salon of the Year for 2023, and AHIA, Australian Salon Newcomer of the Year for 2022. Welcome to the pod, my love. How are you? I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_02

I'm so excited you're here. Um, what a bio readout. Can we just talk about that for a minute? It's pretty special, it is so special. Like, how does it feel hearing that?

SPEAKER_00

It feels just like a lifestyle now. You know, it kind of every new opportunity I am always forever grateful for. And it it feels like you know it's gonna slow down at some point, but now I'm just kind of used to the pace of what the lifestyle is and looks like. So it's it's yeah, it's pretty special.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. I was like, when I was pulling that together, I was like, man, this girl, she does not stop.

SPEAKER_02

She does not stop.

SPEAKER_03

No. And that wasn't I had to like go um rummaging for a few extra achievements, but you should be proud.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Now, for anyone that doesn't know you or your story, can you please tell us from the very beginning how you got started in the industry?

SPEAKER_00

From the top. From the top girlfriend. Well, when I became a hairdresser, I definitely did my school a favour in aborting the mission of, you know, anything related to school, because I was a problem child, and I would cause any ruckus in class to get any form of attention because I didn't get a lot of that at home. I now see that as what that is and for what it is, but I didn't recognise it then. And it I didn't have too many options, but I was either going to get a job at McDonald's or become a hairdresser. There weren't too many options at that age because I was 14. I was actually in the middle of my makeup diploma.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, really?

SPEAKER_00

I was. I'm a fully qualified makeup artist and was for half of my career practicing both. And I failed all of my hair units in my makeup course, so I had to repeat the hair units. But halfway through the course, I was like, I my best friend was a hairdresser at the time. And I chose to work at a little salon in St Kilda called Tonic in the arcade. I don't know if you've ever you've ever seen. There's only one hair salon in that arcade. Is it still there now? It is. Wow, yeah. Yeah, so that was my beginning to of being a hairdresser. So I did my certificate two, my pre-apprenticeship, because that's what he said I needed to do to get an apprenticeship. And then when I finished my certificate two, he said, sorry, doll, we don't have a job for you. And it was pretty traumatic. But I was lucky that I ended up in the perfect spot in the end after a few little jump arounds, but I ended up training with a man named Frank Bergemeester, who was a bit of a rock star in their time, and I didn't recognise actually how blessed I was until now when I tell people who I trained with, and they're like, oh and then I'm like, oh, you know, I just hit jackpot by walking in one day because it was close to home. I was living in the city with my dad at that time, and that was the beginning to my hairdressing career. So yeah, it was a really, yeah, really special, special time, and I didn't really have that bad of a time as an apprentice, if that makes sense. You know, you hear some awful stories, but I was very lucky. Yeah. And his salon was in the city? Yeah, so it was in South Melbourne. Yeah. And there was actually another salon in Carlton as well. So the apprentices would all come together to the South Melbourne training salon because there was a training salon above. And Anne Bergemeester was a massive influence in my life as well, and still a good friend today. And she was my cutting teacher as well. So yeah, I got to learn to cut hair with the best. So, how long were you there for? So this is a great question. I was there for two years and I was going into my third year, but by then I was getting the boundaries. The boundaries from the boss, which felt really jarring for me as someone who didn't have any boundaries at home. And I would say, yeah, zero boundaries. Like my dad was never home. I I was allowed to get away with murder because there was no one there to tell me what to do. So by the time I had any kind of accountability at work, it was really jarring. It felt really quite hard to receive feedback. And I got some consistent feedback from Anne. And then it was probably the third bit of feedback that I was like, I'm just gonna find another salon. And she always used to say to me, You've got so much potential. You've got so much potential. She saw the potential within me. And then what's funny about that was I ended up finding a salon where the owner didn't live in the state, and it was the exact environment of my home. They didn't care about my training, they didn't care about being there. Like I got away with murder, I could wag TAFE and no no one would know. So it was that was what was more comfortable for me in the end. And that was the beginning of um, I guess a a really hard part of my life where I was partying every weekend. It was a part of the the lifestyle of uh I would say being a hairdresser some of the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Or a lot of the time. And it suited me really well, but I went down a really dark path uh to the point that I ended up getting fired from that job uh because I wasn't attending TAFE in the end, and I'd been paid for multiple days of being at TAFE, and I think he was just happy to kind of for us to be done. But then I ended up getting a job at one of the best hair salons in Melbourne. Which was what at the time? Rakus on Collins. Okay, which is yeah, high-end Paris end of Collins. Oh, Paris End of Collins. Right. Yeah you're with me? Yeah, you see it. Yeah, and yeah, so that was also because of the training that I had, and I'm lucky I was able to stay with FB for most of my apprenticeship, so there were some solid foundations and skills that were recognizable for other salons as well. So, but then I ended up getting fired from that salon to and that was kind of the beginning of the end.

SPEAKER_03

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SPEAKER_00

I remember getting fired from that job and it I remember from Rockers. Yeah. And they said, you can party, Sheridan, but you gotta be able to shop to work. Yeah. And not have your eyes rolling back in your head while you're doing blow waves. And I'm like, what do you mean? I don't see anything that you're seeing, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me because it was the beginning of the end, and it got a bit worse from there before I ended up getting clean and sober. And I've actually been clean now for 13 and a half years. Wow. From that that moment on the park bench, and I've never drank or used a drug since because I know who I am and what happens to me when I do. I abandon all responsibilities and I cannot, for the life of me, show up even if I want to. It just I'm just I'm just not which is a funny, right? Because you know me and taking responsibility now in my life. I show up for everything, and my problem is I can't say no. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. Like you, you telling that story, you're just like on the completely other end of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And look, it held like hell then, and it was a really, really, really, really dark and humbling time. But I am so grateful for the homelessness. I'm grateful for being fired. I'm grateful for my the training that I did get. And when I did start hairdressing, there was a light in me that turned on when I first discovered it. But then the darkness took over. And it's like hairdressing meant nothing because I was busy, I was booked and busy somewhere else. And then hairdressing saved my life for a second time when I got clean and sober. And I didn't think that I would be able to stay a hairdresser because I really thought that I needed to use and drink to be creative. And it turns out I'm ten times a better hairdresser when I'm not dropping eckies before a haircut.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Work that out. Who would have thought? Who would have thought? So sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Moving on. No, I'm just like, I'm just like, where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_03

So there's so much in that. So because you have like so much perspective now. So much. But when you're in it, it's very difficult to have perspective. Zero. So how long, you know, like talking about um partying, talking about getting fired, how long did it take you to really understand what you're going through and what that meant and like how your family life was kind of overflowing into your work life?

SPEAKER_00

I I was really lucky that I got clean at 20. So it was, but I started drinking, like blackout drinking at 14. So that's about six years of, you know, alcohol abuse, hating myself. I didn't know that I hated myself until I got clean. And then I recognized, oh, that's why I treated myself because I was in a bucket load of pain and was masking anything and everything that I could. So it was, I think, a series of events that led up to, you know, when my dad changed the locks on me and didn't tell me. Like that was I'm like, he's my dad. Like, what the hell? He was the problem at that point. But then I recognized the behaviors. Um, I think looking back fr now, why that had happened. But at the time I was a victim to my circumstances and he was a dog. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But I think that was again one of the best things that ever happened to me because it led to a lot worse before it got better from there. So 20 clean and sober.

SPEAKER_03

Going back to my question, like when do you when did you start to really kind of unpack how long did it take you? When did you start to have that perspective to be like, wow, okay, actually that was what I was going through. That's what was happening.

SPEAKER_00

Well, after the locks got changed on me from dad and I was homeless and literally couch surfing. That was at towards the end. So I'm like 1920, like that was when it all came crumb crumbling down pretty quickly. Um, I ended up somehow after being homeless and couch surfing and having I think that was about eight months of my life that I had no home. And then I ended up living with a best friend's mum, and that got really bad, and then we ended up moving out of there, and then it ended up just being a party house in the city, which was really exciting, but it just meant it just went from one day to two days to three days to four days to five days to ten days, and then that type of abuse for anyone it led to deep psychosis, and yeah, that that was kind of the pattern. It crumbled really quickly. The more uh consequence to my life, the the stronger I but I still didn't know there was a problem until the psychosis hit for me. I think that's when I was like, oh this isn't something's not right. So was it like early 20s? Yeah, very early 20s, where I ended up in a mental health uh cyc ward. And that I think when I recognized the people that I was in the environment with, I was like, I don't belong here, but something's really wrong. Yeah, something got me here. And that was then the admission for the very first time because all my friends around me would admit to being addicts, but I'd be like, I've just got it, I'm just having fun. Like it just I wasn't I was in so much denial, so I couldn't see. I can't even answer the question because I couldn't see it until it was like yeah, a pretty dark place in my head. Um and the being able to ask for help, I think, around my thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because your thinking today is like very mature, very inward looking. Very yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I've done a lot of work. I've had to really rewire every single part of self. And what I've learned is I haven't necessarily changed, I've just become who I am, which is 120% unapologetically and authentic Sheridan. Like I cannot be who I am. The more I try to not be who I am, and I've tried over this last, you know, um decade to blend in to, you know, I remember an era where I was like, I'm just gonna try to sit in the back row and not be noticed, and and it it it lasted a week because I'm just I am so loud, I am so bright, I am so you know, I tried to do the blonde hair thing and blend in and look like uh, you know, my friends at the time and I j it did then then I lent, I ended up I look kind of very similar to the way that I did when I was in my heyday, you know, fluoro yellow hair, wanting to be kind of seen and heard, but now I feel this is I cannot imagine me with brown hair. Like it just no, even just seeing you in that brown waistcoat. I'm like Right, the brown, I mean, yeah, we change, we change the table, we changed the outfit for today. But there's that even that I'm leaning into a little more. It's like I don't have to be the loudest, brightest person in the room. What do I like? You know, and that's you know, I'm still always exploring that. And I think I'm in a bit of a rebirth at the moment after having a second baby. Totally. Who am I? Again. So it's constantly asking, who am I or who do I want to be in this moment to expand to the next part of self. When did you start therapy? Therapy, well, it started with group therapy after the cycle didn't work out for me. So cycle ward early 20s? Very early 20s, like right before I turned 21. I oh, it was in probably September. I've got the dates 2012, I remember vividly. Um, I count my clean time date. It's like a rebirth for me. It's really important for me to remember where I've come from because I really do forget until someone asks me about my journey and my life. And that's why, you know, I can get a lot of slack for being telling my story in my industry because I mean I think we're riddled with similar personality types, and it can be a bit confronting for some, I suppose, but I cannot tell my story without telling you these parts of an honesty. Yeah. Imagine if I went around it. Yeah. It would be I I wouldn't I could I couldn't. I just couldn't. It's it's a massive part of who I am, and it has been what has shaped me, and it's been a massive part of my success as well.

SPEAKER_03

You said something there about that's what shaped you. So from a hairdressing perspective. Yes. Who were some of those mentors, those people, what shaped you aside from your journey with addiction, what shaped you in those early days?

SPEAKER_00

What shaped me in those early hairdressing days was definitely I was heavily influenced by um Frank and Anne, and I longed to go back. When I got clean, I longed to go back and redo my life, and I've never, you know, you can't do that, it doesn't work out like that. So I think for me, I've chased my own tail in wanting to repair the parts of my skill set that I'm I turned a blind eye to, and that's why I what I owe a lot of my success to because I didn't I didn't feel good enough about myself internally, so of course I didn't feel like a good hairdresser either. I felt like I needed to a substance to be good enough in anything and everything that I did. So I think building that over time through education, and I would say I've probably had more mentorship in this the hairdressing industry space now more than ever before because I have learned to ask questions to the right people that I find attractive in the industry, and not just everyone, but the ones that really have some kind of light or ring around them, and I'm like, wow, your aesthetic is amazing. How did you get to where that you did? And I'm I love people and I'm interesting and interesting. 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah, we don't like sitting at tables with people that just talk about themselves the whole entire time, right? Like it's like, where's this two-way street? And I'm that person that will pick someone's brain whether it's appropriate time or not, because I'm like, this is a learning opportunity, everything is a learning opportunity. So I think Anne and Frank for sure were those really heavily heavy influences. Yeah. Um now. Now or more recently. More recently, I've got Kim Cray, who's my business mentor, who's been life-changing. I feel like she's done enough deep work on herself to hold me. And we've grown, I think, together, and she's been to spaces that I hadn't been before, and I needed someone to drag me through the mud that could help me because I've got this vision and I've got this mission, and it's bloody big and it's ballsy, and I'm just going straight in for it. And it has been horrific on the inside, like it has hurt. Hurt so much because that's life. Like if you're expanding beyond your own nervous system all the time, you're like a slink shop.

SPEAKER_03

Life and business, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

It is.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So having people like Kim to guide me through that has been super important. Uh Lyndall Salmon has been an amazing influence.

SPEAKER_03

For the first time last month, I love Lyndall.

SPEAKER_00

She's she's just a cool chick. She is. And I I think I look to her and how she dances in the industry. And I love her behaviour and her authenticity and how she's just her. Lauren McAllen has been a massive influence to me too. And not just from a hairdressing perspective, but a business perspective as well. I feel like she's one of those hairdressers that has a lot of experience in not just creativity but being a creative director for companies as well and seeing all the back end of things and being able to help me negotiate with brand deals. And you know, I was on the fame team in 2023 as well. So that was a massive mentorship process uh with M Division. Sorry, I just had a full, I was like, what do we call that? Are we calling it main division? Yeah, I know, I know fashion awards. Like I was like, had to really find my feet there, but that was kind of like now has been a massive, you know, process for me. I haven't got a specific mentor, but there's been people influence. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, like when I think about mentorship, it's not always like a structured engagement. Yes. And I think that's something that people often overlook. It can be a structured engagement. Like I have a mentor I use every month. Yep. We have a catch-up, we have our goals, we have our North Star, all of those corporate things, right? But like mentorship opportunities are everywhere. Just being in the presence of someone, or people, or expanding in different ways, doing something new and different. Yes, you know, like there's mentorship opportunities everywhere.

SPEAKER_00

There really is. And I've got a lot of personal mentors that I process a lot of my stuff with and get, you know, perspective and values and spiritual principles and all of those things I really lead my life with these days. So it's like hairdressing industry hasn't been a map that and I think it's only now that I've got that opportunity that I can plug into those people. But it's been the people, you know, outside in the world that have influenced and helped me firstly stay clean, get clean, and then help me live life because I have a life problem. Life is incredibly difficult for me to regulate. Like it's it, you know what I mean? It's like I'm throwing spanners left, right, and centre, and I have a regulation problem. So much so that I abuse drugs to the point that I end up in hospital. Like that's my issue. So I've got to find other ways to live my life and people that can hold space for me and kind of just process emotion are ridiculously important. Um, I've got a good group of women around me at the moment that are that I found in the industry as well, that are all running businesses, empires, you know, Tamara Reed, Kira as well. Like they're just you find your people along the way that you can lean on and uh really, you know, we mentor each other. And it doesn't always have to be a commercial agreement because everyone wants to make a dollar these days. And I actually prefer and I've got all of that too. And I've got a nutritionist now that I pay for, I've got a gym, I've got a personal trainer, like I've got a mentor in every single area of my life, but the ones that I get the most out of is definitely my inner circle. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03

Your inner circle's so important.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, hopefully, no one sees those Instagram DM voice notes. Like they're the ones that you know what I try to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I know exactly. And everyone knows.

SPEAKER_03

Um when did you realize hair was your thing and you had a successful salon slash career slash?

SPEAKER_00

I've got a few points in my career. My first point was when I was in TAFE and I started colour, and it was the first thing I ever got a hundred percent off in in my life. I'd never ever gotten that kind of achievement, but it was because I was interested in it. But I got that sense of worth. So that was the first time that it hit me. And I would say now I am way I love hair more than I've ever loved it before. So I feel like I'm in a peak and I've recognized this is my passion, this is my life's work and purpose, and I get to give this gift to other apprentices. Like the fact that I get to change people's lives from the very beginning, there's something really magical about giving that back. So I think that's why I'm in a little bit of a like legacy life purpose reflective moment because all of the skills that I've built over the last 18 years, I now get to be a mentor for someone else. And that's really my the next part of the journey for me.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like playing that role is so fulfilling. It really is.

SPEAKER_00

And it can be hard, and you know, it doesn't always go the way that you would. Yeah, yeah. But it's That's the gig though. That is that's showbiz. Yeah. That's showbiz. But but the but what's going on at Mama West at the moment and the people that we have in the team, yeah, we've got four, and they're all hungery, and they fuel me in a different way, and they s we're trying to do things a little differently than what it was like perhaps when I was an apprentice in many different ways. Like we really are. I was not doing Pilates classes and breastwork classes. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the industry's changed a lot. You know? Yeah, yeah. And that's my that's what I want to lead with as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Natalie Ann Haircare. When you've spent years perfecting your craft and educating the industry, you don't just put your name on any product. You create something that reflects everything you stand for. That's exactly what Natalie Ann has done. A professional hair care range built on real expertise, designed for stylists who demand results and clients who expect the best. And her latest launch, the sleek and smooth range, a smoothing balm and styling brush made for the flawless slipback styles. No flyaways, no crunch, just polished perfection. Discover the full NA range at Natalie Ann.com. I must say I actually miss having a team. Yeah. Oh, you will. Yeah, you will. She's just getting stuck.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Um, what talk us through some of those challenges you face? Because like obviously, Mama West, Westfoot's grade, like premier destination salon in Melbourne. You've gone through a huge period of growth over the last few years. Personally, your business, the salon, education. Um talk us through some of those challenges that you faced when scaling business, education, content, clientele. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

One of the biggest I've got two that came to mind when you said that. And my first one was I think when I first started, I had never owned a business. I actually had a business for five years working on my own as a solo hairdresser before I scaled. Yep. And that served me quite well. But I didn't have any management experience at all whatsoever. But I did have an abundance of life experience and mentorship experience. So I could, I had a little bit of leadership within me throughout all of that process. And I think what's happened over time is turning creativity into commercial success. That has been my biggest pain point because when we first started, it was all creative, creative, creative. We do the creative color, you know, that came with commercial success naturally. But then I think a lot of people look at Mama OS and they think it's fun, it's quirky. But we are so commercially driven because we have to be at the scale that we've gotten to. You know, my overheads in my Mama West 1.0 or Mama West OG versus Mama West 2.0 are, I would say, beyond triple. Yeah. So I've seen I've seen some of your posts. You've right. Like it's uh it's so I've got no other choice than to start to lead commercially, but I've found a way to be able to lead commercially and creatively and how we look at our client experience. Everything is measured by numbers, but it tells us the gaps in our client experience by looking at it. I'm looking at are we doing a $700 transformation? And what the hell is that client using on their hair at home? And if we're not talking about that, we're actually doing a massive disservice to the client. Especially our creative colour work. Like it's we cannot afford to not have that conversation with the client because then we get a phone call when they've put their pale pink in and it's washed out because they were using sun silk on it at home. That becomes my problem. So we do abundance of training on the importance of why hundreds of people drive past multiple different salons to get to Mama West and why it's different and unique. And it comes all through education. So we educate from a commercial perspective and we do a lot of performance management and coaching around numbers and why it's important. And also, I'm incredibly passionate about the hairdressing industry, and I think we have a big problem when it comes to people pleasing and not being able to raise our prices. Like people look at my prices, and I'm telling you, I can't tell so many people say, Oh, I looked at your prices. Oh, Sheridan's charging this for a heck. I'm like, it's actually not that deep when you look at my numbers. In fact, I don't even need to look at your numbers, and you should probably be charging what I'm charging. But people aren't brave enough or don't believe enough in their service. But I am so passionate about what we've done and what we've built and what we've scaled and what we've brought the team along the journey and seeing their transformation of recognizing the importance, and then now it's just natural and it's normal. And that's why we get, you know, over 300 five-star reviews. Yeah. Because people are like, they really heard me, they solved my problem. They spent 20 minutes in the consultation, not just the first time, but the second time, the third time, the fourth time, the fifth time. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like it's not that deep, but we put so much emphasis and put so much fear into money. Whereas now I'm like, no, this is a luxury. And we're we are moving into a wellness space now as hairdressers. You know, people come to feel good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. That that relationship, that dynamic between client and hairdresser, it's just like, it's so special. It's so, so special.

SPEAKER_00

It is beyond like it. I forgot how special it was because I've been off the floor after having Queenie.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I had a conversation. I I was back on the floor yesterday because we're trying to here's here's what this looks like. What I just talked about in action. A client walks through the door. They're booked in for a half head, but they need a full. They really need a full. Like it's almost brown at the back, and I don't even know how it got to that stage. They're booked in for a half head, but they really need a full. We moved mountains for them to get a full head and a haircut, and it meant me jumping back on the floor so that they could walk away with exactly what they needed in that moment because she drove an hour to get there, and she's gonna drive an hour to get home. And I'm not gonna see her for another three months. Yeah. So that's what that looks like. We have up upped our service total, not on purpose, but with heart and intention. And I think being on the floor and solving their problem and making them feel as good as what they did, like that was like, oh, I miss that. I miss solving those types of problems on the floor. Because my problems day to day look very different than my managers or my teams. Oh, 100%. Especially at the scale you're at. Oh, the days that I don't have to solve a sewerage pipe or an electricity. What was it this week?

SPEAKER_02

Electric was it electricity? Electricity. And then it came back on yeah 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00

We had a fully booked day, booked out till 9 p.m. and 1.30 the power goes out. Yeah, business owner problems is just disgusting, gut wrenching. Planned or unplanned? Unplanned, babe. What do you mean, planned? Yeah. I'm like, I s yes, anyway, it was just horrific. And no one can solve that problem but me. Yeah. So it's yeah, I mean, I'd much prefer to be on the salon floor. And I think that's why salon owners hide in their business because it feels so good solving those problems, but we end up neglecting so many others. And that could look some can look like our team. I don't have time for one-on-one catch-ups every month. I don't have time for you know what I mean? And they they're like, no, I don't want to bother her. She's booked and busy. You know what I mean? It's like, no, we we make time.

SPEAKER_03

I love that discipline. So important though, especially at the size and scale that you're at. I just I don't know how sell on owners can't be executing on that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we say corporate girl. Says corporate girling. And I think for me, I've been able to find a corporate perspective and bring it into creative, and we found a really beautiful co-balance working relationship with both. And it ebbs and it flows. You know, sometimes it is more professional, or corporate, sorry, and sometimes it is more creative. And then there's the human, and sometimes it's more human. It's not black and white for me. And that's the thing that I've learned. I am finding the grey and living in the grey 24-7.

SPEAKER_03

100%. Yeah. I mean, how has Queenie shaped you embracing the grey the last few months?

SPEAKER_00

So having Queenie was a bit of a left field moment for me. I've got a seven-year-old son, and I was on the train of I'm going global. I could I don't have time for another baby. And it turns out you can do both. But it has humbled me in the way that Heath, my partner, was always going to be the stay-at-home dad. Yeah. But I have a woman's body, and that has been incredibly humbling for me because I really thought that I could just go back balls to wall, back where I was in the peak of my career last year, and just like nothing ever stopped. And look, I have, I still have. Like if you look, I know you know me. I know you have. There's balls to wall intention and then there's balls to wall execution. That's that's that's and I'm probably more in there's a lot of things I'm holding on at the moment. Yeah. And there's a lot of things I'm exploring and I'm not acting. Normally I'm like, let's throw another ball, let's throw another ball and let's learn to juggle. But now I'm just like, let's sit with that. Let's observe this. Let's be more intentional. Have a bit more conversation. Yes. More intentionality on yes and no. Yeah. Instead of like, let's give this a red hot crack and make it fucking work. Yeah. Because that's my usual style. Whereas now I'm like, this is gonna happen. Yeah. And I don't need to rush. Yeah. And if it's good, it'll be even greater.

SPEAKER_03

It's so interesting because like kids really slow you down. But they also really speed you up.

SPEAKER_00

She she has and she's softened me. She softened me in a way no one could. Like I look at her and she like I it's really scary. It's really scary for me because I've come, I wasn't shown an unconditional love. I was completely and severely neglected as a child. So I think having her has been almost, I knew it was gonna be hard having a little girl because I had to relive sorrow.

SPEAKER_01

We got glad.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, I'm like But it's true, I've had to relive how I don't know how I got through my life. Like, and I think having her, it was different with Junior because he was a little boy. And he was the light of my life, and he's healed me in many ways, but Queenie has helped me acknowledge the pain and turmoil that I went through growing up. And and that's been hard because I I don't I'm so aware that I I I don't want to be a workaholic. I don't want to put the needs of everything else before her because that was what happened to me. So I'm but it's only since she's been here, you know. So she's been the greatest gift ever because I I used to say it's all for my family before, but now it's feels really different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I I was listening to this poem the other day on social media, of course, and um it was talking about the dynamic of like working hard for your family, but always ensuring that your family aren't getting the worst of you.

SPEAKER_00

That and that, that, so the buildup of having Queenie and trying to go back to the way that I used to live and act, and then getting mastitis once, and then getting mastitis twice, and then getting mastitis three times, and recognizing that mastitis is stress and inflammation. And then Heath started smoking by the time I got the third bout of mastitis, and then I started to recognise this is consequences of my actions and going too hard, yeah, too quick, too soon, so I could see for the body was telling you. Yeah, my body was telling you. Now driving. So thank you, feminine energy. Yeah, I do believe in it, and I think there is something wild going on inside of me in terms of rebalancing because I have always been quite focused in that masculine energy, the doer, the doer, the hustler, the beat. You know, like whereas now I feel like I'm actually really dancing with both quite well. And I've always I've always had that part of me, but I've neglected it. And I think Queenie, being a little girl, has just brought that to the front. Resurface.

SPEAKER_03

Resurface. Yes. You know when a product comes along that just changes the game. Well, if you're a stylist or you love great hair, you're going to want to hear this. Today's episode is brought to you by Jador Hair Suppliers, and they've just launched the incredible Cane for Kai 7cm tape weft extensions. These extensions are designed to make every stylist's life easier. The 7cm tapes mean faster installs, which means less time in the chair and more money in your pocket. Whether you're doing a full transformation or quick infill, the wider tape gives you extra coverage and a beautifully seamless blend. And of course, quality is everything. The Cam Vikai range comes in 12 stunning colours and a luxurious 22 inches in length, giving you options for every client and every look. If you're ready to level up your installs and deliver flawless results with less effort, check out the new Cam Vikai 7cm Tate Weft extensions. Available now exclusive at Jador Hair Supplies. Your clients will love them and honestly so will you. Head to trade.jadorhairsupplies.com.au linked in our show notes. Gotta love those babies for that.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my lord, I never thought I'd be that person that's like she's such a honey. Like anytime you post her, I'm just like so it's like you have kids, you know, to give the gift of life, but then you get so much in giving. You know, like there is such a profound, you know, it's yeah, it's pretty special. I just cannot believe this is happening for me. And I still can't believe I have a daughter. Like it just I still can't believe.

SPEAKER_03

But here we are. I know. I know. I just I'm actually a bit upset she's not here this weekend.

SPEAKER_00

Everyone says that to me, right? But do they ask you if you're hanging her? I'm working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Where's your baby? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, exactly. That's actually my I I don't mean it as in like, where's your baby? What are you doing? I mean it as in like I want to hold her. Yeah. But there's two ends of the spectrum there. There's one they want to they want to, you know, hold the baby, and there's another like, why are you here and your baby isn't? And that's definitely not.

SPEAKER_01

Where's Queenie? Yeah. Where's Queenie? Yeah. What do you mean? Imagine if she was in this podcast right now. I mean, we'd make it work for her. She's not on the spreadsheet. Oh, she's not on the I mean

SPEAKER_02

I would make an exception for a late edition for her. Alright. Um, yes, thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Thank you for my god. This is the first time I've teared up in an episode.

SPEAKER_01

Of course it's gonna happen. Of course it's gonna happen with yours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um so being bum is such it sounds so cliche, but it's such a transformational time. And the transformation is happening regularly. Yeah. Um so how are you thinking about productivity from like a tech? And this is gonna sound like an interesting combination, but from a tech AI point of view, now because I think about this a lot. You know, productivity as tech is advancing so quickly, as AI is advancing so quickly. Like, how are you thinking about that as at the moment, as like a return to work mom breadwinner, you know, heath stay at home dad? Like, what are you doing at the moment in your work-life routine?

SPEAKER_00

That's actually a really interesting question, and it helps me finish the other challenge that I faced, actually, and that is outsourcing. Outsourcing and not being the only person. You know, because when you are scaling, you need systems, you need processes, and you need people to help you get the job done. And when your mission is as big as mine and it's about to get bigger, watch this thing. Always. Always.

SPEAKER_01

That's the one I'm just sitting on at the moment.

SPEAKER_00

Like that's what I've recognised. I need it, I need, I need those things created. And we don't always have time to do that. I know, because you've got to stop doing the doing.

SPEAKER_03

That's to be like, where are we taking this from an efficiency point of view?

SPEAKER_00

Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So for I get stuck in that rut all the time.

SPEAKER_00

It I see you, but that but the sometimes it only happens, I think, when we're forced to change. You know, once we get to the stage, it's like, okay, you know, like I would never have gotten off the salon floor if it wasn't for Queenie. I was forced to look at all the systems and processes and back end of my business, like nobody's business. So I've been on the back end of my timely at the moment, literally looking at the way that our consultation forms are even sent. It used to be quite generic. How thick's your hair? You know, how this. But now it's all so ridiculously personalized that people are now telling stories to us before they're even in the chair. So we've got a really clear picture and idea of what that person is thinking and feeling. Um, have they ever had a good haircut before? Are they a difficult client? Or have they really just never been heard before? So that's what it kind of looks like. That's what I'm heavily relying on is, you know, the supports that I have. And also we've just had a massive Trello uh system built out by the conscious salon where we've got all of our systems on the back end that people can refer to because now that I'm not in the salon all the time, we need comms.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The people need to know how to move, how to operate, how to execute. Exactly. So it's like you have to be in the situation to then start to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, 100%. So that's such an interesting one about consultations and consultation forms because it's so topical in the industry and right now, especially.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I feel like it has been for a while. Yeah, thanks to trends, right? So all these consultation videos are popping off because clients want to see that. They want to they want to see what's going on. So I think the expectations are now higher than ever before. And for me, the anxiety of doing a client that I'd never met before, I still get that. So the more information I know about that client, the better I'm gonna feel so that I can serve and solve their problem. And the better the c the the client satisfaction. It's comms, it's it's the pre before they've even walked through the door, they've got a feeling of how much we care. Yeah. That we've already got this automation.

SPEAKER_03

It's so funny because we think about it as technology automation through a booking platform, but to a client point of view, it's so much more than that.

SPEAKER_00

It's all about the client experience. Yeah. It's the it's the journey before they get to us. And that's why even the automation post journey has also been what I've been working on in the back end. And but to a point curation, I think people are setting and forgetting. We need to constantly be looking at this stuff. Yeah, revisiting the season.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, revisiting the systems, the setup, the automation to make sure it's fit for purpose.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. But the problem is hairdressers don't have time. Yeah. They've got to make time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you do, you do. Especially at scale, like at the scale you're at.

SPEAKER_00

I mean at any sc uh because it's I can get any scale.

SPEAKER_03

It's a ret it's a retention indicator.

SPEAKER_00

It it it is. It's all about retention.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and we all know if we get that if we get that client retention, you're in a much better position from a revenue point of view.

SPEAKER_00

And though that data tells us how good of a job we're doing so that I can communicate that to my team. You know, and that's my responsibility is to lead my team better than how I found them. Yeah. And I really believe through that data that I'm looking at literally, I'm looking at my executive summary every single week and putting that data into a spreadsheet and then looking at it not just from a weekly perspective, a monthly perspective, and then a quarterly perspective, because you know, let's be honest, we can't be perfect all the time. We are human beings, and those quarterly catch-ups are often the most exciting catch-ups because we get to look at, you know what I mean, the the season and where where are we at from a percentage perspective because that's probably more important for me speaking my language. I know. Do I look so sexy to you? Yes. I love it. I think we're so blessed that we ha I don't have a paper book anymore. I've got a whole entire software system that has so many opportunities that I get to actually it makes my life easier. 100%. I don't need to go to a secondary program like Trello and build something out. It's all there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So we're onto Fast Five Lightning Round. Tell me, what's a myth about the industry you wish people would stop believing? You can't make money.

SPEAKER_00

This this is the the topic that I'm so passionate about at the moment is what's the word? Diversification. Yeah. Income diversification. Yeah. Is that what we talked about? Yeah, and hairdressers can travel the world, can be a platform artist, they can build resources. They're rock stars. We actually are, and in the 80s we were recognized as that, but we've lost our power, and it's time to take it back because I my career, like the the life that I get to live, it it is so fast-paced. Like it I've I'm flying literally every fortnight, at least sometimes every week, for my job. I just got glammed to come and sit on a podcast and talk about my my work and my the I just think there are so many opportunities. And then you know you can shoot collections for awards and then travel the country, connect with an industry and be instantly recognized and credible because you've been nominated for something globally. Like that to me is wild. It's very special.

SPEAKER_03

It's so special. Yeah, it's so special. Quick shout out to something I actually use every day at the Beauty Grail, the 270X Creator Tools from FK. The viral Magsafe Snapstand is my absolute go-to. My phone just clicks on and I've instantly got the perfect angle. It's compact, reliable, and it honestly comes everywhere with me. The wireless mics are super clean and an absolute must-have. And the vlog screen, genuinely game-changing. It sticks to the back of your phone so you can use your back camera and still see yourself, which means way better video quality without the guesswork. If you're creating content for your business, this tech makes everything faster, easier, and your videos look so much more professional. And because you're listening, FK is giving you 15% off. Just head to phoneKing.com.au and use the code BUTTY15. I actually love this stuff. It just makes filming simple. All details linked in our show notes. Now, a mentor once told me in my early 20s that skills that got you to your current place promotion goal aren't the same ones that are gonna get you to the next yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What are you laughing at? It's just so true.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, then no, that is so true. I mean, I told you all what was going on for me when I was 14 years old when I just became a hairdresser.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But you know what? When she told me that in my early 20s, I was like, my mind was blown. It's so true. As a 22, three-year-old. Um, and it's something I've never forgotten. So my question to you.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, but it wasn't a statement. It was a qu it was a question.

SPEAKER_03

What's something you're letting go of and something you're honing in on?

SPEAKER_00

I'm letting go of trying to do it all on my own. And I'm honing in to receiving the level of support from people, and that I I am worthy of that, and and and I am also worthy of being able to give. You know, it's not black and white. I never look at anything like that. So I think Do you think that's your indo it's hard to receive when you've had to be so independent and strong? It's very hard to receive. That's the part that I I I'm opening up my heart to because and that's what is scary. That's what's scary about I've I've never I yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. You nailed how you asked me that question. A hundred percent. It's my background. I didn't receive in the way that I think I needed to instinctually as a little girl. So I've had to really struggle through. Who would have thought that my biggest struggle is accepting love in life? Like that breaks my heart. But it's happening, it's happening in my life at the moment. So something's moving, and I'm really excited about it. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Stop, you just screw me in the best way possible. Um, what's a decision that you made? I think I know the answer to this, so I'm gonna ask it anyway. What's a decision that you made that changed everything, but might not have made sense to everyone else?

SPEAKER_05

Sorry, it's just so funny.

SPEAKER_01

When she laughs like that, I'm like, is she mocking the question? No, I'm not laughing with you. I'm laughing with you.

SPEAKER_00

I don't have any inch of sarcasm, and I can't even do sarcastic friends. There's no sarcasm in this lady. If she's laughing, she's fully relating. No, I love that. That's what that is. I love that. You'll know now. Every time I'm laughing at you, you're like, she gets me. She does. But I can get it can get me in trouble. Um I I'm gonna say Mum West 2.0 because that was I like there were so many people that were like I it's gotten back to me that people were talking and they're like, how did she do that? Like it's it was wild what I pulled off. Oh yeah. Like I am so proud of belief I was disgustingly so I knew, I knew that that was what I needed to do though. Like it was but it was the most excruciating, painful journey I've ever been through because instead of taking baby steps, I had to just went big. I had to I had to grow really fast and quickly, and there was a lot of learning. You know, little learning curves along the way. That humbled me, you know? That humbled me to the fetal position moment many, many, many times and being so far in the red that I didn't know if I was ever gonna come out. But we're out the other side and we're just getting started. So That was actually not the answer I was expecting.

SPEAKER_03

What were you expecting? Were you gonna say queenie? I was I thought it was gonna be something more about your recovery journey.

SPEAKER_00

No, I feel like it's just see, I'm a bit bored by my recovery journey. Okay, yeah. You know what I mean? Like I think it's a it's a really important part of who I am, and I need to consider that all of the time. That is actually the problem and why I still talk about it because I forget. I forget. It was 13 years ago, right? Whereas now I'm so probably in the nervous system of what's going on now.

SPEAKER_03

Totally. Yeah. But good point. What's a standard in your life or career that is now non-negotiable?

SPEAKER_00

Integrity. It is undeniably integrity. Hands down, that's it. And I really look to my peers for that. I look to everyone around me for it. And if I feel that that is compromised, that is step back internal, doesn't need to be anything other than that. And I really recognize that this year. That has been my number one wow, that is a massive value of mine, and it's really important to me to be around that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see that for sure. I see that in you. Final question What's the next audacious goal you're working on right now? I gonna say it.

SPEAKER_01

Is it too soon? Has she got an exclusive for us?

SPEAKER_00

I might have an exclusive, but I don't know if I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03

This always happens. You can just give us a little hint.

SPEAKER_00

Alright, let's just, it's come up. Let's do an exclusive. Oh okay. Alright, we're being honest. This is the first time I am saying this outside of the inner circle. And we talked about legacy and we talked about the importance of giving back. And we are now at a really crucial time in the Australian hairdressing industry where apprenticeships are being overlooked. So we are looking at a Mama West Academy. I've got a 336 square meter space that I knew, I knew when I got this space, it was too big. But I when I looked at getting half of it, it was too small. And now I'm having some very interesting conversations and especially my relationship as the creative consultant for Pivot Point and the resources and how much they've changed my apprentice my apprentices' lives right before my very eyes. I really want to scale that and be able to actually bring quality education back to the hairdressing industry. And that's something I'm really passionate about. So we are looking at what that looks like. And it might not be a 2026 thing, but it's sure as hell gonna be a thing. Exclusive. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01

You know, you know how that I can't not be honest, like it's I just don't know where to go from there. I know, right?

SPEAKER_02

We didn't even talk about this before, like during Glam.

SPEAKER_00

It's just so big, but it doesn't feel big, just like Mama West 2.0, it didn't feel big, but it was big. And I know that this is probably even bigger because there's a lot of red tape, there's a lot of compliance, there's a lot of paperwork.

SPEAKER_03

You're in the perfect like everything you've just been through has prepared you for this moment.

SPEAKER_00

I I feel like that. I feel like that, and even what I spoke about, what the legacy and what's important to me these days. You know, I don't want to focus so much on the limelight in the front and centre of the industry now. I want to focus on who's gonna be me in five years. Oh, I think or 15 years. You know what I mean? Like it's that's what I'm excited about. I'm looking future, future focus for our industry. Oh because it's changed my life. It really has. I'm in such a peak. And I I get to, you know, I get to fly and meet friends and connect and just like it's just the best life because of the people. It's the people that hairdressers are. You know what I mean? We can just connect so quickly with each other. Like we're just I mean, you wouldn't know, like we're a fucking.

SPEAKER_03

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00

But we're so lovable.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so lovable. Right? If you find your hairdresser, I was converted from day.

SPEAKER_00

You were, you're like, I want to support these people because I've got systems and processes, and you do, you and run cheeks. You handhold the hairdresser in a way that we need to be helped, you know, and that's what you're so great at.

SPEAKER_03

So oh, thank you, babe. Thank you. Well, my love, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_01

Yay!

SPEAKER_03

We have linked all of your handles details and notes in this episode's show notes.