Easter Edition | Episode 14

The Year Through the Bible Podcast this week was about the different Easter accounts in the Gospels.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I can't even say these words without it blowing my mind. A living, respirating human being is currently sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly places. A living human like us is in charge of everything given glory by the Father. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

All right. Welcome back, everybody, to the Year Through the Bible podcast. My name is Rodney Adams. I'm the executive director at Asbury Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and you are?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I'm Andrew Forrest, and we're going to talk Easter accounts today.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yeah, Easter. We have not spent a whole lot of time in the New Testament. Right. As everybody knows, we're reading through the entire Bible this year, but each day there's an Old Testament, a New Testament, a Psalm, and a Proverb reading. So we're kind of chipping away at all different parts of the Bible. We haven't spent a whole lot of time in the New Testament, but we are going to today because we are just on the other side of Easter Sunday, and uh there's some cool stuff in here.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah, there is. And uh here's an example. So so everybody knows there's four gospels, and there's an ancient, I think it's in the language called Syriac, like like like the country Syria, like an ancient Middle Eastern language called Syriac. There's an ancient uh compilation of the four gospels all together, a harmony. And the church uh fathers basically said, we're not gonna do that. So the church deliberately has kept a multivalent account of Jesus' ministry, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Which means when you come to the Gospels, and particularly the Easter accounts, they're all slightly different. So that can make someone uncomfortable. For me personally, it's the opposite. It makes me more confident that this actually really happened. And it's we're gonna see how they each decide to focus on a different thing. They're aware of other things, but they decide what they want to focus on. So I just thought it'd be fun to look at some of the different Easter accounts and how they talk about it. So for example, this is John 20. I preached on John this weekend at Easter, but this is John 20, verse 2. This it's it's one little pronoun and it contains the world. Here we go. Okay, so by the way, all the gospel accounts say that Mary Magdalene was the first person to encounter the risen Lord. But some of them say other people were with her and some don't. John only gives us Mary's name, except watch this. Actually, we'll start at John 20, verse 1. Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene got up to the tomb early while it was still dark, saw that the stone had been taken from the tomb. So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him. And that little pronoun tells you that she's with other women. So John the evangelist, so the the technical term, fancy Bible term or fancy scholarly term for the writers of a gospel is an evangelist. They're sharing the good news. So we say Matthew the evangelist, Luke the Evangelist, Mark, etc. So John the evangelist, he has chosen to focus on Mary Magdalene. He has a larger purpose he's trying to give there. And he knows there's other ladies there, and he's just, it's this artistic thing where he's zoomed in on her. I just think that's really cool. That little word we there. Just you go, oh, there you go. And I think that's a really important thing to people to understand that the gospel accounts are true accounts, but they are told so that you have faith. They are not trying to be a closed circuit television or what do you call a court stenographer's account of what happened. And this is a great example of right there.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

This is also one of the um what would be the right term for it? One of the like apologetic strategies or one of the apologetic sort of justifications is um the fact that they are different is helpful, not hurtful. Trevor Burrus, Right. Right?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Like if you were feature, not a bug, as we'd say today.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Trevor Burrus, yeah. There's this guy, uh his name is um oh gosh, something Warner, I think. But he has this website called ColdcaseChristianity.com. Yes. Um, and I caught I caught some stuff of his probably a decade ago, but his whole deal is um he was a 30-year detective in the Los Angeles police department. His dad was a detective, his grandfather was a detective. Um hope I didn't get his name wrong, but I definitely didn't get the website wrong. And so what he did was he was a non-believer, he was an atheist and kind of one of those like obstinate gotcha types. And so he did the thing that we hear over and over and over again. I'm gonna go read the scriptures so that I can tell people how wrong they are. And then he came to faith doing that. But what he did was he took he took the modern sort of detective strategy of discovering truth and applied it to the gospels and it ultimately came to faith. But but that's a big thing for him, is that the fact that they are different is just like if you were a detective or a judge and you were getting eyewitness testimony from multiple people who say they were uh they saw a murder or they saw a car theft or something like that. If all four people said the exact same thing right on time, it would be suspicious. Right. But if but because of just the way memory works and the way that, you know, um trauma and all that kind of stuff works, um, the fact that there are variances, but not conflicting variances, they're just variances because people hone in on different things. It actually works for the case for the gospels. It does. And the women thing is a good example.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So everybody they all say there's women there, they don't agree on the number, and then you have John kind of say, Well, I know there is more than just Mary Magdalene, but I'm only talking to her. And and so for artistic reasons they wanted to focus in, theological reasons, or maybe they these are the ones they actually talk to, or you know, it's all kinds of theories. Anyway, which so John has Mary at first, and then Mary, she goes and gets the other guys, they come. Then in John 20, 11, it's just Mary herself, and I reference this on Sunday. Angels talk to her and they say, Why are you weeping? This is verse 13. And she doesn't even know that they're angels. She goes, They they have taken away my Lord, I don't know where they've laid him. Then she sees Jesus, but she didn't know it was Jesus, verse 14. He looked, he there's something weird, he doesn't look exactly like himself. Woman, Jesus said to her, Why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking? Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him and I will take him away. And then he reveals himself to her. And then after that, you have the issue with Thomas, who's not there. He breathes on them, but Thomas isn't with them, and Thomas wants to have the proof, and then Jesus shows him the proof. I preached on this on Sunday. And then John closes the resurrection accounts there, and then he has a further epilogue in John 21, which nobody else has. So he has a different kind of emphasis. So if you go to Luke, Luke has some very different stuff. So Luke is Luke says Luke 24. This is kind of cool. So Luke has them at the tomb. Here, look at this. Uh uh. Okay. On the first day of the week, Luke 24, 1, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices, because they all expect to find a body. They is explained in verse 10. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary, the mother of James. And look at that, nice phrase. And the other women with them. So we don't we're not totally sure exactly who's there and who isn't there. So they show up, and by the way, the there's differing accounts. Is it one angel that's there or two angels there? They they they differ on that. Again, that's kind of those witness testimony things. Peter goes to the tomb. Okay, here's what's cool. Verse 13, you have the long story of what's called the road to Emmaus. That very day, two of them, these are the disciples, were going to a village seven miles from Jerusalem. They're talking about the fact that the ladies said there's no body there. And while they were talking and discussing verse 15, Jesus drew near, but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And he said, What are y'all talking about? And they were sad. And then one of them, a guy named Clope Cleopas. Okay, so by the way, Jesus has disciples that are separate from the named twelve. When the Bible says disciples, it means literally his guys, his students. So here's here's a guy we've not been heard of before, this guy Clope Cloppus, or Clopis, sometimes he's called, right here. We know his name. And he goes, verse 18, are you the only person in Jerusalem who doesn't know what's going on? And Jesus goes, 19. Well, what are you talking about? Concerning Jesus, the Masareth, the man mighty and prop a prophet, mighty indeed and word, and how the chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death and crucified him, and we'd hoped he was the one to redeem Israel. And yet, this is now the third day, and some of the women, they amazed us, the women who f were with us, they were at the tomb early in the morning, and they didn't find his body. They came back saying they even seen a vision of angels, and the angels said he was alive. And some of us went to the tomb, and just like the lady said, nobody was there. And then he says, Oh, foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe, was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory? And then verse 27, he gives them this huge Bible study of the entire Old Testament. Beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interprets them in all the scriptures, the things concerning himself. Okay, so that's pretty cool. Then he appears to them in the breaking of bread, then he vanishes. And then at the end of Luke 24, he appears to the rest of the disciples, verse 36. They're talking about these things. He stood among them and says, Peace be with you. And they are startled and they think he's a spirit, a ghost. He says, Why are you troubled? See my hands and my feet. It's my me. Touch me. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see. And he showed them his hands and his feet, pro the marks. He's showing them the scars. Verse 41, they disbelieved for joy. And he says, You guys got anything to eat? Verse 42. They gave him a piece of fish and he ate it. Alright. So then here's a really cool part. Then he said to them, This is what I told you guys before. Everything written about me in the law of Moses, so the the Torah, the prophets, which includes the history books and the Psalms, the writings, gotta be fulfilled. Verse 45. And then he explained the scriptures to them. And then he said, This is written, thus is it written that the Christ should suffer. Verse 47, that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem, your witnesses. So Jesus says that the Bible, the whole Old Testament, is about the Christ. And that the purpose of the Christ is about repentance and forgiveness of sins for all who call on his name. I mean, it's pretty cool. He like explains the whole Old Testament right there. Isn't that cool?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

It is cool.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

And that's Luke. That's the name of Luke.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Which, by the way, um we're gonna get into the book of Acts later. So after Pentecost. But like these are the guys, so all the guys that are that um because what he says right here in 49, and behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you, but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high. And then in Book of Acts, of course, we all know it happens, and and he says um Um that you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth. But these are all the guys, so he gave the world's greatest Bible study to all these guys. Then they were then the Holy Spirit fell upon them, and then they went. So that's the backdrop to when we read all these accounts in the book of Acts, is these guys who got all this stuff from him.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I get frustrated sometimes. Um, this is more in academic settings. Where, okay, we've talked about on this podcast, you've got to understand the Bible on its own terms, period. You can't force a 21st century question into a this, you know, these ancient texts. Like this is like the science thing and the creation thing and all that. Okay. Totally agree with that. Makes complete sense. Last week we talked about the conquest of Canaan and some of those things. Well, basically, we're saying you have to understand it from its own time. Okay, I believe that. But where I get frustrated is when people act like you're adding Jesus to the Old Testament. Like when you talk about Jesus in the Old Testament, like you're add like you're adding it, whereas Jesus himself says right here. No, the Old Testament is about me. It's always about me. We're not reading into it, we're listening to what the Lord said, and that's why we believe that about the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And that's a good reminder because a lot of the folks who would say, I'm not talking, we're not talking about unbelievers because they wouldn't say that anything at all about the scriptures, really. But these are these are sort of um New Testament type believers, like the folks who maybe go to a church that really they only focus on the letters of Paul and and gospel accounts and things like that, which is all fine, but but they would be the ones to kind of maybe critique some of the Old Testament stuff, or maybe they've set it aside. But in their own in the in the things that they do read, it literally says that like Jesus says the entire thing is about it's crazy. It's right there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Cool. Anyway, you're going to say something.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Well, no, I want to I want to go I actually want to go um go back to John? I kind of want to go back to to before Jesus um is risen at some point today.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

But we can do that now. Or we can keep going to Mark and Matthew.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Go ahead. Go go to Mark and Matthew.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

So this is we're now we're really opening up uh a can of worms in Mark, but Mark's ending is controversial. Either the gospel of Mark ends after verse 8 because Mark wanted to end after verse 8, or and I think this is probably more likely, at the end of verse 8, the end of the original autographed manuscript got torn, and they don't have it. So all all good Bibles should have some kind of textual note that says, like my Bible says, some of the earliest manuscripts do not include Mark 16, 9 through 20. So Mark 16, 1 through 8 is the ladies at the tomb, and it ends like this, verse 8. And they went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had seized them, and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid. The end. All the oldest manuscripts we have end there, all of them. Again, probably that means the original manuscript was damaged. Well, a later scribe added in verses 9 through 20, when you read it, is obviously a summary of the other resurrection accounts. It's so obvious. It's just like a like a little compilation of the other things. So that's kind of fun that the church has kept that like that. We know Mark ends, and then there's like this other added part to it. That's kind of interesting. Mark doesn't therefore have any of these extra resurrection appearances. And then Matthew has a really cool thing at the very end. He meets the disciples back in Galilee. Now, at the end of the Gospel of John, they're on the Sea of Galilee fishing. So they're in Jerusalem when Thomas says, Show me the hands, and then the epilogue comes on and they're in Galilee. Matthew 28. By the way, Matthew includes this. This is chapter 28, verse 11 and following. While they were going, behold, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had taken place. And when they had assembled with the elders and taken counsel, they gave a sufficient sum of money to the soldiers. They bought him off and said, Hey, tell people, oh, his disciples came by night and stole him away while we were asleep. And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble. So they took the money and did as they were directed, and this story has been spread among the Jews to this day. So you have this conspiracy. Then the end of Matthew is this is awesome. The eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain to where Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him, they worshiped, but some doubted. Very interesting phrase. What are they doubting? And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and earth is given to me. Go therefore make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you, and I'm with you always to the end of the age. And that's the end of the gospel. That's it. Yeah, so they each end in this different kind of theological, like, you know, uh emphasis. Kind of cool. And you can you see Matthew, look at 28.1. Toward dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb. So again, a different sliding s Mary Magdalene is always the center of the constellation, and the other ladies kind of orbit around her.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

And weren't there three Marys? Or are there two? Uh I think we just heard of another Mary, didn't we? Yeah, and well, in John, um this is kind of where I wanted to go earlier, too.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

We have Mary Magdalene, well, there's at least three. Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of the Lord, Mary, uh the sister of Lazarus, Martha Martha's sister, Mary of Bethany, she's called. And then look at the end of the phone.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And John, it's uh somebody else. And Luke. No, it was Luke.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Luke? Yeah, look. Luke 24. Uh all right. Yeah, and Mary the mother of James. This is Luke 24 10. Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. So there's at least four in the in the and I'm sure there's more that I can think of. By the way, Mar Mary is the name Miriam. It's a popular Jewish name. It's the Greek version of Miriam, Moses' sister. Yeah. That's why it's so many Marys. It's a popular name.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

There's a particular uh school here in town that that my kids used to go to, and when there's a new baby born, I can re predict with remarkable accuracy what that baby's name is going to be. It's going to be a Mary, it's going to be a John Paul, it's going to be it's going to be an Augustine. Okay. Um, so I wanted to go back to. No, here's another one. So uh John 19. So the soldiers did these things, but standing by the um 19, verse 25, but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, his and his mother's sister, Mary, the wife of Clopus, and Mary Magdalene. There's another Mary. Like everybody's name Mary. Five Mary's here.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

And there may be some others that I'm not thinking of.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

So we were kind of talking about this before we got started. I want to just bring it up because I think it's interesting. I bet I bet I bet people who read this are like me and find the intimacy of this really interesting. So continue on verse 26. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, Woman, Behold your son. Then he said to the disciple, Behold your mother. And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. So it's a little bit of a peculiar passage. Jesus Jesus is on the cross. And it's almost like he's cleaning up some kind of his affairs. It's what it seems like to me. Um presumably his uh his adopted father, Joseph, is dead. Yeah, I think so. I mean that's that seem tradition seems to teach that he's he's not really listed anywhere else in the gospels after the birth story. Um now presumably the the the eldest son is who's responsible for her, Jesus, is now about to pass away. He's about to move on. So rather than pass her off to or ensure that his brothers look after her, he chooses right here at least, it seems like he chooses a disciple to look after her. Behold your mother, and from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. I just think that little that little detail is so interesting, and you were telling me, I didn't know this, that that I guess the st that Mary sort of moved on to Ephesus or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

That's one tradition, yeah. Mary ends up in Ephesus. Okay, which is where John, the elder, the author, the the evangelist John, the writer, ends up. He's associated with the com community in Ephesus.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Which is how we think, which is a little bit why we think he's the writer of Revelation. Uh yeah, yeah. I mean Yes, yes. He was he was he was on the island of Patmos, but but which is a a place where off of modern day Turkey, which is where Ephesus is. Yeah. Um again, this was new to me, and I we kind of talked about this a little bit, so I don't know how far down this road we want to get. I just think it it it made me re it made me ask myself the question why not Jesus' brothers or brother, whoever. Um it seems like though maybe there's a faith component here. Like maybe earlier in the scriptures, um someone had said, Hey, you know, your your mother and brothers are here to get you, or something like that. And he says that my mother and brothers are the ones who hear the word of the Lord and do it. And then there it almost seems like he's making a little bit of a of a provocative claim about about faith. He talks actually about dividing from your family a lot. But here he is absolutely um basically transferring his mother into the care of someone who's not his brother. Yeah. Do you find that interesting at all?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah. Yeah. And and I I I was wondering if it's because the community around John, John has these weird places where the community speaks in, we know, John, we know who this is. Like if In my Bible, the same page, John 19, 35, after the crucifixion. He who saw it has borne witness. His testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth, that you also may believe. At the end of John 21, the famous the famous uh epilogue. John 21, 24. This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things and who's written these things, and we know that his testimony is true. I wonder if it's because the people in that community they knew Mary. Mary's part of it, and that's an important part that kind of legitimizes it. Yeah, it is it is weird. I would like to know more about it. Is it weird that he kind of gives the responsibility to this other disciple? Maybe Jesus' family is poor. Maybe he was waiting to see who would show up at the cross, and John did, and the other guys didn't. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Presumably they're not there. John was there. Um late but we definitely know that his brother James, or half-brother, however you want to say it, um definitely comes to faith at some point.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And we also know that prior to his resurrection, that was a problem. At least at some point in his ministry, um, his family's faithfulness was an issue. So maybe they weren't they weren't believers then. Yeah. So I don't know. I just that to me that's a um it's one of those interesting little details that kind of seems important but gets written out of the story a little bit sometimes because there's just so much other important stuff going on here. So anyway, thought that was cool. It is cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

So those are the resurrection accounts, and we could spend forever on all of them, and they're all different, and there's stuff we skipped over. But I just I think it's just fun to see the different ways that they complement and contrast with each other, and they're all just filled with the shock of the resurrection. By the way, the Bible never narrates the resurrection. Have you ever noticed that? Jesus is dead, he's in the tomb, and then the tomb is empty and he's risen. There's no like this like Hollywood version of like his dead white.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Like what's happening in there? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

His dead white skin becomes filled with pulsing blood and like his eyes open up and he takes a breath. Never that.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I just think that's cool too. Like, how could you talk about that? That's beyond what we could that's beyond our our capability to understand.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So in one of our creeds, in the is it in the Apostles' Creed and in the Nicene Creed that that talks about him descending to the dead? It's in both. So in the creeds, there's some sort of I wouldn't call it a narration, but there's some sort of theological point that is made about about um kind of what happens maybe in that period, like he does, he he descends into the dead, then he, you know, raised again. Um that's the closest thing I've seen to any sort of kind of what what is kind of going on there. But it's not necessarily a resurrection narration. It's just it's just it's just kind of talking about what happened between sort of death and resurrection, right? Right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah. And yeah, the sending to the dead, I always get this, I think that's before the resurrection. I think. And it isn't the creeds. He sending to the dead on the third day he rose again. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

So that's happening in that period. Whatever. But okay. So I have a question. It's actually not my question. Um this is a question from speaking of the creeds, from Owen, okay, whom you and I know. Yes. Because he's my son. Um he asked me the other day, and I said, you know what, you should just send this in and and see if you can get on the show. Bible question. Okay. Owen says, uh, who's Owen is twelve. In the Apostles' Creed, a line says, and he will come again to judge the living and the dead. Does that mean everyone who has died has not yet been judged and gone to heaven or hell yet? So that's Owen's question.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah. And I think the answer is yes. Yes. I think he is interpreting it correctly. And the reason he's shocked at his we get the sense of his surprise at his question is because that's not how the church has the church has done a terrible job of talking about what the Bible actually says about what happens when you die. Okay. So if you turn to Revelation chapter 20. Uh let's see, go to Revelation 2011. Revelation 2011. This is the very end of Revelation. Then I saw a great white throne, and him this is after the second coming, and him him who was seated on it from his presence, earth and sky fled away, and no place is found for them, and I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and the books were opened, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books according to what they had done. And the seed gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each of them, according to what they had done. And then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of the fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Okay, this is judgment day, and yes, judgment day has not yet occurred. So what happens to people when they die? Well, Hades is the Greek word for the place of the dead. In the Old Testament, it's called Sheol. And Jesus says weird things like today you'll be with me in paradise. He tells the parable in Luke's gospel, but the lat the man who's in Abraham's bosom. Paul, uh, Peter talks about Tartarus when he's talking in his thing. So it seems like there's like a temporary-ish place as people who die before the resurrection are waiting for their time. And either you're waiting with the Lord in a place of paradise, that's a good place today, you'll be with me, or you're waiting in a place that's not good. And then everyone is brought together at the judgment day, and the living who never died, and the dead who died are all there together being judged. I think that's what the Bible would say. So hell hasn't happened yet. Hell is different from Hades. Hades is the place of the dead. Hell is where you go when you it's really for the hell, I think, in the biblical language or logic is for the rebellious spiritual beings, the demons, is for hell. And then people who don't want to be with God end up going there because they don't want to be with God. That's how I would ex explain it. Which by the way makes sense as I just explained it, but it's so different than what cartoons of Bugs Bunny tell us about what happens.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah. And I started thinking about this a few years ago. Um Tim Mackey did a teaching or a sermon or something titled Um Paradise Now or something like that, where he pointed out sort of it's like there are glimpses of and we can live in be living in Christ now, like you can live in to this kingdom reality now. Now not in its fullness, but but at least in part. And then our tradition, um along with lots of other, you know, folks from the church the last 2,000 years believes like that you can be sanctified. So like like every um every successive year or every successive period in your life, like you you can grow in Christ. And as you grow in Christ, you you grow in his grace and his mercy, uh, you can experience more of the fruits of the Spirit, so on and so forth. So our tradition believes that we're not just trying to get the answers to the test right, right. Um, and then one day there's we're we're not we're heaven is not a place we're trying to like get into. Like where you can live, you can live in this kingdom reality now. What I hadn't really thought about until you just read this passage and we started talking about this is you can also live into like a partial hellish reality now. Yeah. Like equally, like you can, you know, we know people who are living a living hell. Like they're because of the their life is full of, you know, not to get too um um churchy, but full of weeping and gnashing of teeth. I mean, it's just they they just live in these awful circumstances, and a lot of times they're responsible for parts of them. Um and it doesn't have to be that way. No.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Not at all. And it also makes it explains uh how crazy it is the way we talk about salvation as just like this little prayer. It's like it's like you learned the password. You got the password, and then they go at the gate, they go, What's the password? And you go, Jesus is Lord, and then they let you in. As if you could be in the presence of the Lord and hate God and hate everything about him. It makes no sense how you that's why you have to have faith. The righteous shall live by faith. And so at the end of life, at the great judgment day, if you don't want to be with the Lord, you're not going to be. It's that simple, right? He doesn't like there's yeah, the way we talk about it just makes no sense. So what happens when you die right now? Well, it may be that it doesn't feel like time. Maybe time doesn't seem like it passes, like in a dream. And you have the Lord. Paul says in Philippians, he says, to live is Christ and to die is gain. I'd rather go to be with Christ, be with him, but if I need to stay here on earth and be with you, I will. So wherever happens when you die, you're with the Lord. I I like the paradise is the Persian word for garden. So you're in this beautiful place. I've heard uh N.T. Wright say, if you've ever read the Narnia books, the magician's nephew, where they go to the wood between the worlds. Did you all we've talked about this every time, and I never remember your answer. Did you read that yet as a family? The wood, the sixth book?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah. So there's like this place you go to go between various dimensions of reality, and it's like a nice, calm, beautiful, warm place. Maybe it's a place like that. You're with the Lord, but you're but it's not completed because uh Owen, heaven is actually the is is the resurrected new creation world with tables and microphones. I probably shouldn't do that, and embodied reality, and that has not occurred yet.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

That's what we're waiting for. So it's a really cool thing that God is going to do when he raises the dead and everything is put back together.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I think the embodied reality part of that is probably some of the most groundbreaking stuff for most people because I think the cultural just assumption is that everybody's just floating around in the ether, right? Just these the spirit world, um, which is not biblical at all. It's so weird. And I think heaven's way better than that.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yeah, it sounds way more interesting than that. Yeah. Yeah, way more interesting. So, yeah, Owen, you're exactly right. I think what I would tell the Christian people is I don't know exactly that how what you experience when you die, other than you're with the Lord and it's good. And maybe for all of us when we die, and then the Lord's there saying, get up, and he has me by the hand, and I'm like, How long has it been? He's like, Well, it's been a minute in your time, but in Earth's time it's been 10,000 years. I don't know. It could be something like that. So the mount of transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah see the Lord, it's like they've been brought out of the place where they are with God, where God's people are, and they're seeing the reality because they're living. Oh, Jesus says this, by the way, remember when the He argues with the Sadducees about the resurrection, because they don't believe in the resurrection? He says it says, I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is the God of the living, not God of the dead. That when you die in the Lord, you are with the Lord, you live. Yeah. But you're waiting for the full culmination of everything.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Um I like that you brought up the transfiguration because the the accounts of Moses and Elijah, and then also later when Jesus is risen from the from the grave, and they I love when they kind of don't recognize him right at first. It's it's I think that probably says something. I agree. I don't know what exactly it says, but it says something. You know how when you have a dream and you're like, it's like you were there, but it wasn't you, but it's definitely you. Like it's something like that. It has to be something like that where everything is remade and it's it's not recognizable right at first, but then it's totally recognizable and it and it makes total sense, right? Really cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

That's why the resurrection appearances I think are so important to um meditate on, because there's something they're telling us about this future reality. The fish, the eating, the scars, the breath. He breathes on them. Think about that. He's a respirating human being. By the way, and this this is way larger than this podcast. This I can't even say these words without it blowing my mind. A living, respirating human being is currently sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly places. That's what the ascension means. A living human like us is in charge of everything, given glory by the Father. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's like the most mind-blowing. You talk about a doctrine we never talk about in the church, the ascension.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah.

unknown 34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

That is just blowing my mind.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Well, because he just like floats away. And then and then it says that he's gonna come back in the same way.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

And that you're not gonna know the day of the hour. Yeah. The whole the whole thing that the way time is bent and the way the whole is the whole thing is beyond our comprehension, which uh it gives me peace. Right. I know that that actually sa it sounds strange, and for some people, if they can't understand every piece of it, it troubles them. It doesn't mean it actually gives me a little bit more peace, the the mystery of it all somehow. Uh maybe that's why I'm in the line of the work I am.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

So But also it says the incarnation is this fulfillment of God was always going to do Jesus didn't become a human and die as plan B. It was always plan A. And and it just human sin caused it to work the way it worked out. But it was always plan A. That God is dignifying human. Think about the dignity of the human being, the fact that a human being is in heaven with the Father, reigning all things, reigning over all things. That is amazing. Totally. Think of all the doctrines, pro-life doctrines from that. All the things that flow from the idea that the human being is not just an just not a random collection of cells, but this dignity, this thing given dignity by God.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Amen. That's crazy. It takes me back to Saul made every time. Just the the that he he made us a little bit lower than the heavenly beings, but then crowned us with all glory and honor. It's just there's something about the glory of humanity made in the image of God that glorifies him and he glorifies us. Like it's just it's it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Well, I think we said la was this last week we talked about this. This is my theory. This might be why one of the things that sets off the demons, the spiritual beings that rebel, is that like God Himself puts on flesh and enthrones flesh in the heavenly places. They may be like, how dare you? Yeah, what the heck? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah. Okay. Well, that was a lot for today. Um I feel like we moved to that pretty quickly, but couldn't pass up uh an opportunity to talk about the Easter accounts. It's cool stuff. Yeah. Really cool stuff. Okay. We did not necessarily hit every single part of Deuteronomy, but we're gonna start Joshua this coming week. And so um I think we're done with Deuteronomy for this podcast. We just got so much to cover, we're moving at such a quick pace. But um I was on the road yesterday for a little bit and I listened to Deuteronomy 20 through 34. I think 34 is the last chapter. Yeah. And you if you have time, I like reading it in in a physical Bible, but if you have that kind of time, you can kind of if you if you do it all in one shot, it actually kind of helps because it it it flows. So if you if Deuteronomy is still confusing to you, go back and listen to other episodes that we've done on this. We're not gonna do Deuteronomy anymore. We're gonna move on to uh Joshua uh in our in our daily reading plan starting this coming week, and then we're gonna talk about it probably next week on the show. Yeah, yeah. All right. This has been the Year Through the Bible podcast. Um, as always, go to year through the Bible.com. You can send send in your questions, and we'll try to get to them on this show. If we don't get to them on this show, then hopefully somebody will reach out to you, um, even just to acknowledge that you send it in and keep going and uh follow along our reading plan as you've been doing. I'm Rodney Adams. I'm Andrew, and happy Easter, everybody. Happy Easter. See you again.