Don't Be Like Saul | Episode 20

The podcast this week was about how King Saul screwed it up. Spoiler: don’t be like Saul!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The Holy Spirit is is all over the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

So I guess the big deal at Pentecost is that now the the Spirit is poured out on all of God's people. The Spirit is now given to church all the time. He gives himself to the church. I guess that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

The way in which the Holy Spirit is moving is different. But the Holy Spirit is not new. No at Pentecost. At all. No. Welcome everybody back to the Year Through the Bible podcast. My name is Rodney Adams. I'm the executive director at Asbury Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

And I'm with I'm Andrew Forrest, and we're here. We're going to look at First Samuel today. We're about almost 38% through the Bible, according to today. That's pretty good. Uh which is good. And we're moving through 1 Samuel, and there's good and bad things. The good thing is you do move so quickly in this Bible plan. The bad news is you just can't spend time on everything. And 1 Samuel is so rich that it's a shame to drip. There's so many awesome things. But we're going to look at 1 Samuel, and we have a question today from our friend Rosie.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. So I just want to echo what you just said. You're right. You can't, the pace is just so rapid. Again, though, the goal is not for you who are following along, the goal is not depth. This is not like a deep Bible study like we may do other parts of other years, or something you may have done on your own. The goal is to get through the entire Bible. So taking note of new things you learn, little occurrences, names you had forgotten about, things like that, which is what will actually make depth more possible in future years. You kind of need to know all of it. There's no way around it. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Right? You know what I think? It's a little bit like maybe a hardcore fitness thing or like um language immersion. There really is no way to do it other than just dropping in and doing it. Just got to do it. Yeah. And so it's it, you you gain the fitness as you go through it, and you just got to keep pushing through.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah. All right. So let's start here. We're gonna we're gonna be in 1 Samuel. Um, we're gonna be talking about Samuel and Saul, and we'll see if David pops up. Um, but we have a question, and I this caught my eye too. So our friend Rosie uh sent in a question. In 1 Samuel, there are a couple of times where it says Samuel was ministering to the Lord. And her question is, how does one do that? So there's one in in 1 Samuel 3, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

And then I think there are a few others, but 1 Samuel 3, 1 is a beautiful verse. Now the boy Samuel was ministering to the Lord in the presence of Eli, and the word of the Lord was rare in those days. There was no frequent vision. So you're setting it setting up for Samuel's call story, one of my favorite stories, beautiful. So the word minister is the word servant. Uh it's the English word of servant. So when we so we talk about, we don't do it in America, but in Britain, they have government ministers, right? And they have ministries that are secular thing. You're the minister of Ministry of whatever events or the ministry of the ministry of something, or whatever they call it. Yeah. Parks. So we we would call it departments or whatever, but the word minister, so it's a secular term that's like the servant of. And so, Rosie, I think what's happening here in Samuel is that Samuel is doing the work of the priestly assistant in the in the temple. Uh or it's not the temple, it's the tabernacle, or he's changing out the bread, maybe, preparing sacrifices, holding the fabric for Eli, getting Eli's little ephod robe ready. I think it's that kind of stuff. He's doing his job. He's an altar boy. Yeah. He's an altar boy. Yeah. I think that's what it means. And so for those of us who aren't altar boys, I think it can mean like your daily prayer, like an or like a regimen of daily prayer, ministering before the Lord. I take out my little Bible, I pray my prayer, I intercede for people. I think that's how one one would do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah, okay. So that's a um some of our listeners will know that we have a big um service coming up on Pentecost. And our church is starting a new ecclesial connection called the Asbury Connection. We can talk about that in another forum. But one of the main sort of things that will be happening is we're ordaining deacons and elders into this connection. And we've spent some time talking about just the different ministries, the ministry of all believers, so those who have been called out from the world for the sake of the world, and then out of those come a ministry of deacons that are there to serve the church, and then out of those come a ministry of the elders who are to oversee the church. So um, even just in modern terms, Rosie, all of all of those of us who are in Christ Jesus can be ministering to the Lord when we're doing the thing that is maybe called out and separate from the other groups, right? So someone who doesn't know Jesus may be um going to the bank and doing their stuff before work, and maybe on the weekends they're going to the the parks or whatever, which is what we do. But then there are times because I'm a follower of Jesus where I'm doing something that is different than what they would do. I would be in my room on my knees in prayer. I would be um caring for a widow in my neighborhood, something like that in the name of Jesus. Maybe you could say that would be me ministering to the Lord. Yeah. Well, Samuel is he has a job like a like a priest or a pastor would have at a church or an altar boy, like you just said. And so he's kind of doing a unique thing that is that his office is called to do, right? That'd be a good way to put it. Absolutely, yeah. He's not doing something um um maybe magical or or crossing spiritual realms or anything like that in there. He's he's just doing his job that he's been given to do inside the the temple. Responsibilities tabernacle.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

The word minister is uh yeah, it's from Latin for like minor, so the lesser one, where like magister or master would be like the greater one. So it's like the the servant. It's you're the minister, you're in service of a larger thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah. One of the cool one of the cool parts of the scriptures where that word comes up in my mind is when Jesus is led into the desert by the Holy Spirit, then he's tempted by the devil, and after that period of temptation, um, it says that the angels came and ministered to him. That's kind of a cool image to think about.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, it is cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Him kind of finishing that trial or that test or whatever, and then the angels are ministering to him. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, so we're in we're in 1 Samuel.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, and that's so Samuel is called by God, and then he's a he's a judge and he's a prophet, and he's the last of the judges. He's not the last prophet. Prophets will continue, but he's the last judge. And Samuel's given the job from God to anoint a king. Samuel's ticked off when the Israelites want to king. He's offended. Yeah, he's offended. And it's not entirely clear, is he offended purely on behalf of the Lord, or is he offended because of his position vis-a-vis the Lord? God's response to Samuel seems to imply that Samuel's offense is more pure because God says, Samuel, they're not rejecting you, they're rejecting me. So it's almost like God's like, Samuel, I know this is hard for you, but I want you to know it really is only about me, and you can let it go. It's kind of what you get. So then Samuel's meant, and he's given the word of God. So remember, we just read it. The word of God was rare in those days, and now Samuel starts hearing from the Lord a lot, and other people do as well, other priests and stuff. So Samuel, uh, the problem is in verse chapter eight, look at this. Chapter eight, verse one. And Samuel became old, he made his sons judges over Israel. The name of his firstborn son was Joel, the name of the second was Abijah. They were judges in Beersheba. Yet his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned after game, they took bribes and perverted justice. So the elders come and say, Samuel, you're old. We don't want you, we don't, we, we don't, well, they don't say we don't want your sons, but they say we want a king. So that ticks off Samuel, but God says it's okay. And they choose this guy, Saul, in 1 Samuel 9, and he is anointed with oil. So he is a Christ. So Christ is the Greek word for being anointed. What the Hebrew word is Messiah. He's anointed with oil, and everything looks kind of good. And in 1 Samuel 9, he's chosen. Some weird stuff happens with him. In 1 Samuel 10, he's anointed.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

And then he fights. Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say this is to me, this is really interesting. So back in 1 Samuel 9, and in my in my Bible, you know, it's got these little subheadings or these headings over sections, it says Saul is chosen to be king, to to begin chapter 9. And I I just I think it's worth pointing out um who they think a right king ought to look like. Yeah. Right? There was a man of Benjamin whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, son of Zeror, son of Bakorath, son of Aphiah, a Benjaminite. Listen to this, a man of wealth. And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a handsome young man. And there was not a man among the people of Israel more handsome than he, for his shoulders upward, he was taller than any of the people. So they picked the richest, the handsomest, and the tallest guy they could find. And this is this is the right choice. This must be, this guy is made of king of king material. Um I just think that's so interesting. It doesn't last very long. No, it doesn't. But he is anointed by the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

And so you you maybe maybe the point is it's not wrong that his dad is the rich guy. It's just that it's not right either. It's in a way, it's sort of almost irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Well, yeah, it's not um I don't think that they are um morally bankrupt because those were their criteria, but but those of us who have any wisdom about us know that that's not always where you find the most virtuous guys, is in the ones that society places their material value on.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

What does uh Forrest's mom say? Handsome is as handsome does. Something like that. So yeah, so that's that's Saul, king like is as king like does. And he kind of starts kind of good. Does okay. Chapter 10, he's anointed, and the Holy Spirit comes upon him, and he's prophesying and speaking the truths of the Lord. So that's okay, and they make him king. And look at this. This is cool. 1 Samuel 10, 25. How cool is this? Samuel told the people the rights and duties of the kingship, and he wrote them in a book. Isn't that cool? That is cool. He's writing it down. I love it when the Bible has little details about like stuff like that. He wrote it down. Now, it is the case that we have a little bit of a problem with Saul. So Saul, the first thing he does is he kind of grabs together, where is this? He pulls together like an army for like a standing army.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

He raises which is what God told Samuel. Well, remember, God said when Samuel was all mad, God said, Tell the I want you to tell the people what life is gonna be like now, though, that you have this king. And one of the things he told him was, Um, the king is gonna raise up an army, he's gonna pull your sons in to fight. Yeah, which is exactly what happens. First thing he did.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

So he picks them up, and but Saul does fight for them. So verse 11, the people are being oppressed by an Ammonite guy. I mean, chapter 11, this guy named Nahash, which by the way is the word for snake. It's the same word for snake. Like in the Garden of Eden. It's just his name is not translated here. It's the name snake. His name is Snake. He's an Ammonite. And he says, uh, I'm gonna, he says, uh, I'll let you guys surrender, but this is uh chapter 11, verse 2, but I'm gonna gouge out all your right eyes. So that's the price of surrender. And they go, uh, give us some time. Then they send this Saul, hey, hey, come save us. Saul goes, why is everybody crying, verse five? And they told him, and then the Spirit of God comes on Saul, and he is ticked off. And he takes the yoke of oxen and cuts them to pieces and sends it throughout the territory of Israel. And he says, Whoever does not come out after Saul and Samuel, so shall it be done to his oxen. Then they all go, they're all afraid. And they come out and he musters them, and there's a bunch of them there, and then he says, Tomorrow we're gonna save you. So then when they get the message, the people who are besieged, the men of Jabesh, they say, Hey, uh, we'll surrender tomorrow. And guess what? The next day, verse 11, Saul comes and they fight him and kill him all. So Saul like did a good job. He saved the people. That's pretty good there. Kind of like a judge, actually, right there, you know? So so far, so good.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Well, yeah, we'll see maybe a little bit later, some insight into Saul's character. But he's kind of a volatile guy.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah. Which we'll see with some of the stuff between him and David. But even before that, like he's a and it works in his favor at first, in terms of winning some battles and doing some different things.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah, he is hot-headed. Samuel gives us farewell address that he's still ticked at the people. But then look at chapter 13. Here we go. Saul lived for one year. This is verse 1, chapter 13, and became king. And he had been king for two years. Well, then Saul chose 3,000 guys, and now he has a standing army. So that's a major change in Israel. There's a standing army now. That means they're not farming, they're not taking care of their families, a lot of them are gonna die. I mean, it's it's exactly what God warned the people would happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

That's kind of what they what they wanted.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

They kind of wanted it.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

They wanted a king, they wanted to be like the other nations, like they wanted a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

So this is a tangent, but my son has uh a theology class at his school. I think it's they were talking about hell or something. And um there's this famous C. S. Lewis talk way of talking about hell, that hell is locked on the inside. In other words, people they want to be there, which seems perverse to us. Uh and they were debating in their class that is good, does God delight in punishing people in hell, or is God more grieved at them and give them over to themselves, and which isn't all. And I have no problem with the idea of God punishing them or not. I don't that that's that that doesn't to me cut against the character of God. But I cannot believe there are people in hell who don't some ways want to be there. And what I mean by that is we constantly perversely reject God and want things ourselves. And hell would be the ultimate form of that. We see it here. They wanted a king and then they get what they asked for, you know? And so I could just totally imagine hell is the place where people are complaining that it's there, they don't like it, they're mad, but they don't want to do the thing that would get them out of it. And they don't want to, and God, if I have to forgive that person, well, I'm not gonna do that, you know. I did you just see this pattern through the scriptures, my point in the here asking for the king of people persisting in want of rejecting God and wanting their own thing, and ultimately God goes, Okay, you have you can get what you want, which is pretty scary. So they get a king.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

It's not good. Well, and I've said this probably a time or two on this podcast, but I say it, I I reference it publicly, but I definitely reference it in my mind. Often Paul says in Romans um chapter one, he starts this whole thing in on verse 18, like that the wrath of God being being sort of meted out or poured out on the unrighteous is him giving them over to themselves.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Right? We always think of the wrath of God being more like Sodom, where he's like raining down fire and just kind of destroying everything. But Paul's very clear that like the wrath of God is is you being without him, like him allowing you to be without him. And you kind of see that in in a lot of David's um psalms, like his like um his psalms of of sort of repentance or acknowledging that he's kind of messed up and not wanting to be far away from the Lord. Like you so I think I don't think Paul just made this up. I think you can see it all throughout the scriptures where God just gives gives the people what they ask for.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Okay, you ask for that, here's what you get. So they fight the Philistines in chapter 13, and then here we go. Yeah. First Samuel 13, verse 8, and this is where it begins. It starts to unravel. Uh-huh. He waited seven days, the time appointed by Samuel. So the Philistines are all coming to get him, and they're their Philistines are on the war path. Samuel didn't come. The people are moving around. Saul said, I'll do the offering. And as soon as he'd finished the offering, verse 10, Samuel shows up. And Samuel's like, What are you doing? And Saul goes, I waited, but I couldn't wait any longer, and I had to do it. And Samuel said, You broke the command of God, verse 13. And the Lord would have established your kingdom. Now your kingdom should not continue. The Lord has sought out a man after his own heart. The Lord has commanded him to be prince over his people. So this is the moment where Saul kind of loses it all. So it kind of I think it's worth digging a little bit into because it seems like you know what it kind of reminds me of a little bit with Moses, when Moses gets in trouble for striking the rock with the stone rather than speaking to it. It's like, God, how particular can you be? Sam Saul waits, and it's almost like Samuel has set him up because as soon as he does it, Samuel shows up. So now I think we're seeing though a pattern though of where Saul decides he doesn't want to listen to the Lord and wants to do what he can do, you know? Uh and Samuel has told him in verse chapter 10, verse 8. He says, uh, go down and I'll come after you, and seven days wait. Wait for me, and then I'll come. So he told him to wait. And Saul waits the seven days, but he won't wait any longer, and Saul takes the thing into his own hands. And I think the mark of the king is supposed to be the one who waits on the word of the Lord. He doesn't do it. And so that kind of puts him in a bad direction.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Sad in a way. I don't get the sense in these earlier years or these earlier chapters of Saul. I don't get the sense that he's um like shady, like a liar, kind of a shifty guy. Like I get um, I think there's some insight into his character in First Samuel 15. So we can keep going in sort of his defrocking story, but um once it is finally once it's finally done that the Lord has pulled his has has pulled his anointing from Saul, basically. First Samuel 15, verse 17, and Samuel said, Though you are little in your own eyes, are you not the head of the tribes of Israel? The Lord anointed you king over Israel. And I had not caught that until we read through it this time. And of course, that is Samuel speaking for the Lord. Like Saul has some kind of weird insecurity. He's he himself is like a it's like a us, he views himself as a small man, like he has a he has this strange insecurity. And that if you see it that way, a lot of his volatility and a lot of his posturing and a lot of things that he does, you start to see him as a guy who is striving. Like the Lord has multiple times poured out his Holy Spirit on Saul. He's given him literally the gift of the Holy Spirit, and he has what he needs, but to your point, it's like he's proving and striving. And we'll see in a little bit with the with him not doing what the Lord told him to do in battle. He withholds, you know, the the best oxen or whatever, which is not what the Lord told him to do. And then he says, Well, I did it so I could give them back to the Lord. Maybe he's lying, maybe he's not, but um, he seems to be grasping at something that and not waiting for the Lord to give it.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Well, when he's called, uh he says, I'm an I can't be the king. He does that's he's like, I'm the littlest. My clan is the smallest in Israel. Yeah. Yeah, I mean this weird insecurity that undermines him, and he's not willing to trust God for his security.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Kind of like these imposter syndrome type type things where he's he's just always self-conscious that he does, he's not enough, like he doesn't have what he needs. And that causes him to overreach.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

This is just a fun note. This is the bottom of 1 Samuel 13, the end of the chapter. So the Philistines are part of this these mysterious sea peoples. So they talk about the Bronze Age collapse. Have you heard about this? So the Bronze Bronze Age collapse happens around the 1200s and 1300s BC, all around the Mediterranean. There's all these Bronze Age peoples and civilizations that just vanished. They don't know why. One of them is like the Minoan civilization on Crete and around the Mediterranean. So that's called the Bronze Age collapse. And then around the same time, these sea peoples show up. They're so-called sea peoples. So they show up and they found Tyre and Sidon, which is modern-day Lebanon. And from there, they found the great Roman enemy of Carthage. They are Sidonians and they're from Tyre at Carthage. And they're the Philistines. The Philistines are part of the same group, and they kind of just show up out of nowhere. You know, the Philistines are not an ancient enemy of Israel before this part. They're not they're not the Egyptians, or they just show up. Well, look, the Philistines are an iron age people, and they have this new technology. So look at 1 Samuel 13, 19. There is no blacksmith to be found through the land of Israel. For the Philistines said, in case the Hebrews make themselves swords or spears, they have a monopoly on iron practice. And so you, verse 20. Everyone, the Israelites, had to go down to the Philistines to sharpen his plowshare, his maddock, his axe, or his sickle. And you got to pay for it. So when there's battle, verse 22, nobody had any swords or spears made of iron except Saul and Jonathan. That's it. So they that's just a fun little archaeological note that they don't have it here.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Which is why it's hard to fight them. It's fun to see how biblical history overlaps with like actual history that's taught in schools. Right. No one talks about this, but you know, you have you have these oftentimes the the the clans or the tribes or the sects of people that that prevail are the ones that have the better technology. So you learn how to make swords that are harder than the other guys' swords, you can break them like it, and then they prevail. So technology, it's it's interesting to track technology and the and the sort of rising and falling of different peoples. And this is one of those times.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

It is. And I guess by centuries later, I guess the technology of how you fashion and use iron has spread everywhere, but it hasn't happened yet. So the Israelites don't know how to do it. There's no blacksmiths. Maybe they don't have anvils. I don't know. So chapter 14 is one of those amazing verse chapters. It's not really preached on very often, but it's so awesome. It's with Jonathan, where the Philistines are on one side of one crag in this like rocky desert region. I always think of like Bryce Canyon-looking type place, like that. And Jonathan goes up with his servant. He climbs up. It's so swashbuckling. He climbs up to the top of the crag where the Philistines have an outpost and they kill them all there. It's awesome. But verse 24, chapter 14. This is another Saul. Dumb thing. The men of Israel had been hard pressed that day. So Saul laid an oath on the people saying, Cursed be the man who eats food until it is evening, and I am avenged on my enemies. So nobody took any food. Well, all the people, they came to the forest, there's honey on the ground, and the honey is dropping, but nobody touched it. Jonathan didn't know. He didn't know his dad's stupid promise, verse 27. He put out the tip of his spear, he dipped it in the honeycomb, put his hand to his mouth, and his eyes became bright. He's got good energy now. And the people said, Your dad said, Don't eat it. And Jonathan said, verse 29, My dad is an idiot. Look how good I feel now that I had this good honey. It would have been better if people had been eating all day, and then they could have fought better. So Jonathan has won this amazing victory by himself. It's really cool with his servant. And then Saul gets the sense that, like, somebody broke the rules. And then they this is verse 39, another one of these stupid overreaching promises. Verse 39. For as the Lord lives who saves Israel, even if it's Jonathan, my son, he shall surely die if he's the one who ate the food. And it turns out it is, in fact, Jonathan. Saul says, verse 43, Tell me what you did. Jonathan said, I had some honey. You know what? Just kill me. And Saul says, I'm gonna kill you, Jonathan. And the people all say to Saul, Are you kidding? Verse 45, Shall Jonathan die, whose worked this great salvation? As the Lord lives, no, do not let him die. So the people ransomed Jonathan that he did not die. It's pretty cool. The people like they love Jonathan. Yeah. But it's another stupid promise. Like, what's Saul's deal? Yeah. What a stupid vow to begin with, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, well, I I don't, I don't totally understand why he did that.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

I don't either.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Maybe it's like we gotta fight all day, don't even take a break. We gotta stay disciplined or something. We don't get fat and sleepy or something. I don't want anybody taking lunch breaks today. Yeah. Yeah. Which again, you see him grasping for influence and leadership. Like he's making these huge proclamations. You know, leaders like this that kind of that's kind of how they posture is um we're gonna deliver the new car line in one week. Yeah, yeah. It always comes out of some weird insecurity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yeah. Right. Because you're trying to impress other people that you deserve your job. And so you're willing to. There's two types of problems, right? The one who won't do the hard thing, but then the one who wants to do the hard thing to prove that he can do it, which also is often a mistake. That's like the wrong thing. Right. The wrong hard thing. Right. Yeah. I'm not going to eat anything all day. Yeah. So the people so this is another example, by the way, of Saul does not have the people's loyalty. They love Jonathan. They don't love Saul. And then verse 15, chapter 15. This is it. This is this is where it really gets him. They're supposed to take out the Amalekites, and Saul defeats them. But verse 8, chapter 15, he took the king alive, and he took all his stuff, all his wealth, and he wouldn't destroy it. And then all the bad stuff, that's what they destroyed.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

So that's not good. That's not what God said to do. No. Um He said, God said, Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have, do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. So kind of back to like the conquest of Canaan. Like, go and you gotta wipe all these people out. Everything. They're animals, their kids, everything you can think of. And when they win, Saul is like, Well, I'm gonna keep back all the good stuff. And that's not what God said to do. Here was an interesting thing that I caught this time that I'm curious if you picked up on it as well. It may not be mean, it may not be anything, but so in verses um chapter 15, verse let's just start with verse four. So Saul summoned the people and numbered them and Telim two hundred thousand men on foot, and ten thousand men of Judah. And Saul came to the city of Amalek and lay in wait in the valley. Then Saul said to the Kenites, Go depart and go down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them, for you showed kindness to all the people of Israel when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites, and then Saul defeated the Amalekites. Is that weird that that he kind of pardons the Kenites? But we've said in other episodes, this is something you pointed out that that word is actually the Cain, Cainites. These are these are definitely like I don't know if you call them like the sworn enemies of of the Israelites, but they're definitely from the descendants of Cain that is that is has been in opposition of God's people since the since the beginning. It's really weird. And he kind of pardons them. Yep. Now, maybe, I mean, a lot of time has passed. Maybe they're okay, but I just thought that was very strange that that note is in there that he pardons the Canaan, the Canaites.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah, but it's also another example of like what matters is what you do, right? What matters is how you behave. And then maybe if they're being kind, I mean, he says to Abraham, those who bless you, I will bless, and those who curse you will be cursed. So even these people who have this bad, you know, this bad line of descent, they're okay. How about this? Turn to Esther 3:1. This is kind of cool. Way, this is hundreds and hundreds of years in the future. Esther chapter 3, verse 1. Takes place in Persia. After these things, King Ahasuerus promoted Haman, the Agagite, the son of Hamadatha, et cetera. And Haman becomes the Israelite enemy who wants to kill Maul. He wants to commit genocide against the Israelites. Well, he's related to Agag way back here. So it's like the line of the enemies makes their way all the way through. Uh, and maybe that's another reason why God needs him to take care of the King Agag and the Amalekites there, because it's going to lead to great evil in the future.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Saul doesn't do it. So that's what causes Saul to lose the kingdom ultimately. And Saul kind of freaks out, and he's crying and he's upset about it. And then he I've this I feel terrible about this. This is chapter 15, verse 24. Saul said, I've sinned, I've transgressed because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. Pardon my sin. And Samuel said, I will not return with you. You've rejected the word of God, and the Lord has rejected you. And as Samuel turned to go away, Saul seized the skirt of his robe and it tore. And Samuel's like, That's it. The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to a neighbor of yours who is better than you. And also the glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man that he should have regret. And so it's like the poor old Saul just can't help himself, and he tears Samuel's robe, and Samuel is not having it. And that's the end. In the next scene, David gets anointed. Now, Saul stays in the picture for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Exactly. That's what's really interesting to me is how the filling of the Holy Spirit doesn't always coincide with their job title. Like Saul, like Saul, Saul is anointed king, but when the Lord pulls back his anointing, and he says right here, when you begin chapter when we begin chapter 16, the Lord said to Samuel, How long will you grieve over Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and go. I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, for I have provided for myself a king among his sons. Now at this point, you know, David's young. He's he's he's not gonna be king today. Right. Um so Saul continues his his kingship, but the Lord's hand has been removed, or his anointing has been removed from his from his ministry or his job or his his authority. Well, and and we're getting ahead, maybe this is in a future week.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

The grace of God is very interesting. But um perhaps it's possible that if Saul had repented when David is on the scene, Saul's trajectory could have been different. Saul Saul tries to kill David multiple times because he's jealous of him.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Again, the insecurity there. Kind of makes you wonder though, if that if if um repentance I have to think about this a little bit more, but um when the Lord removes his anointing, presumably he didn't pour out his Holy Spirit on Saul any more times. Like, I guess I just wonder if repentance was even possible since the Lord had removed his like basically is his heart now just hard, and it just is gonna be that way.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

It's certainly sad.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Poor Saul. I mean he does it to himself. The other thing that's interesting, and this is a a big rabbit trail, but Saul is the anointed king. He is chosen by God, and then Saul forfeits that election. So this is much larger than this podcast can do today, but our Calvinist brothers and sisters, so there's certain forms of Calvinism that talk about the election of God as being an irrevocable thing and an irresistible thing. And I don't think ultimately the scripture teaches that. And this would be another example that Saul is the elect king, he's chosen by God, but he forfeits that privilege. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Well, yeah, so you can you can you can essentially lose your anointing through disobedience. Right. Exactly. Which is a word for all of us, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

It is. It is a word for all of us. I I stand by what I believe that if you're breathing, it's not actually too late for you to repent. I think you can come back to the Lord, but better do it before it's too late. Then David is anointed. He's the littlest one. He's anointed. Chapter 16, and then chapter 17, the great story of David and Goliath. Where Goliath is like this snake-like character. He's covered with all these shiny scales and all this bronze armor. And David does what Saul won't do. David is so offended by to defend the name of the Lord that he goes out and fights the giant and kills him. Everybody knows that story. We were talking beforehand. The cool part of the story is when David steps on his body and cuts off his head. That's never in the children's Bible. It should be. And then he carries, he shows up carrying the head. Yeah. How gross is that? Should paint that on our walls in the children's Bible. The little boy carrying the head? The kids would like that, actually. So he shows up with the head and he wins an amazing victory. And that's about where we are. And then things just get worse and worse for Saul, and poor David has to run for his life because Saul wants to kill him.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

You know what's interesting to me? I've mentioned earlier that we're coming up on Pentecost and we have a service here that we're going to do a special thing. But the church will be celebrating Pentecost all across the world. And I'm not saying anyone has ever literally told me this from the pulpit, but it just kind of seems to be in the water that in Acts chapter two, where the Holy Spirit falls upon these people, it sort of can sometimes sound implied that that's the first time that there's a giving of the Holy Spirit. But having read through the Old Testament now up through 1 Samuel, whatever we're in, I mean, there are just dozens upon dozens of times where the scripture is very clear that the Spirit of God is from the very beginning, the Spirit of God is hovering over the waters of the deep to specific people that that God puts His pours His Holy Spirit on from Moses, where he says, Hey, put your hands on on these guys or on Joshua, give him some of the Holy Spirit that I've given you. I mean Bezalel, the artist, you still do the Spirit of God. It's all over the place. So it's actually been kind of cool to see that sometimes I feel like I just, again, it's implied in our teaching language that like God was one way, then there was Jesus, then there's the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is is all over the Old Testament and in those words. Like it's pretty, pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

So I guess the big deal at Pentecost is that now the the Spirit is poured out on all of God's people. And that's what's He the Spirit is now given to church all the time. He gives himself to the church. I guess that's the difference. Rather than being a specialized thing and here or there.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah. And that's that's what motivates the church. The the way in which the Holy Spirit is moving is different, but the Holy Spirit is not new.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

No. At Pentecost.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

At all. No. Yeah. Mm-mm. Yeah. But just as the incarnation makes the second person of the Trinity makes the Son evident to us, even though the Son was always present with the Father. In the same way, the Spirit is more evidence, evident to God's people when He has poured out on all of them from Pentecost on than beforehand. We have a question from the Gospel of John.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

I want to get to a question here. I think the last episode or two, we haven't we haven't um had the kind of questions that we've that fit with what we were doing on the show, but this one I feel like could be a good little a good little shift. So who is this? Susie asks in John 6, 53 through 56, Jesus says that unless we eat his flesh and drink his blood, we do not have life. He goes on to expand on this and is very specific in referring to eating and feeding. Her question is Is this referring to sharing in communion, or is there a deeper symbolic meaning or both?

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think John 6 is a really deep, complicated chapter. John 6 begins with the feeding of the 5,000. They are literally eating bread. Period. Then after that, they follow after him the next day. In the meantime, he walks on the water at night. This is chapter 6, verse 25. So they've had a literal feeding. Chapter 6, verse 25. They go, How'd you get here? Jesus says, You're looking for me, not because you saw signs, because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not work for the food that perishes, but work for the food that endures to eternal life. For on him the God, God the Father set his seal. And they go, What do we have to do to do the works of God? Look, verse 29. Look, look, look. This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent. And they go, All right, if we want us to believe, what sign are you going to do? Our fathers had manna. In other words, that was a cool sign. And then Jesus says, Um, yeah, you had manna, but it was from the Father. Verse 33, the bread that God, the bread of God is the one who gives his life for the world. And they say, We want this bread. So, classic Gospel of John, they talk at different levels. They're talking over here. So, getting back to the end, Susie's question about eating the flesh, there are some Christian traditions that would say it only means participating in the Holy Communion, the body and blood of Christ. I don't think that's what it only means. I think it means believing in Jesus to the extent that he is a part of who you are. You take him into yourself. And a form of that belief and trust is the sacrament of Holy Communion. So I would place it larger. Some of our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters say this is definitely about the Eucharist only. And I don't think that's what the whole context is.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

And the nature of the Eucharist.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

And the nature of the Eucharist, right. It's his literal flesh and blood through the miracle of the Holy Spirit. I think in our tradition, we would say God is present in the in the bread and the wine. And exactly how he's present, we don't need to try to figure out metaphysically, but he's present there. And the posture of receiving Holy Communion is a posture of faith and believing in Jesus, which is what God says, the what Jesus says, the work of God is. So I think, I think they've almost they've taken his teaching and actually truncated it and shrunk it down, I think. That's what how that's how I would answer it. A Roman Catholic priest would answer it differently. But the to me, the chapter is the reason I think that, because the whole thing is about what you really need is trust in God.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

That's what you really need. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, it's more than holy communion. It's not less than holy communion. Holy communion is more of an outworking of this and a particular way that the church sort of trains itself, practices um faith, lives into the promise, like like all the it's a it's a thing we do because of this, but it's not, this isn't like a sp narrow, like, hey, this is going to be about holy communion. Right. Well, look at verse 51.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Jesus acquits himself with bread. So far, so good. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. Okay, so then how does one eat of Jesus? Well, you could say, well, you only eat of Jesus in the Eucharist. But eating the Eucharist is not what produces eternal life. It's the work of Jesus and my trust in that that produces eternal life. So that's why it's not only about the Eucharist, it's about the posture of faith in which Jesus becomes essential to my life. So much so that I'm taking what's outward into my heart. That's how I would answer it to somebody.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah. Okay. Um great question. We're not going to get to it this calendar year because we're we're really need to stick with the the text all the way through the end of the year. But maybe in a future year, um, when we're not reading through literally every word of the scripture, maybe on this show we can we can do more topical, longer, more topical episodes that that help understand Holy Communion or or or something like that. Just things, the things of God and the things of the church that that does deserve a larger treatment than we're able to really give um kind of as we're making our way through the whole Bible. I think so. Yeah. Okay. Uh I think that's good for today. You agree?

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yeah. We're gonna get now to the rest of Samuel, stuff with Saul, David fleeing, fighting, crazy stuff, putting spit on his beard and acting like he's totally nuts. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

It is good stuff. And um I think what I would say is again, we're moving at such a fast pace that my advice to the the reader would be particularly in 1 Samuel and through these more narrative parts, um just just take it for what it is. It the like you can follow the narrative. It's like reading any novel in this particular part. Um, there are some hyperlinks and some deeper things going on here that God's gonna use, but also don't, I wouldn't get just so fixated on those things that it holds you back from the reading itself. Just make your way through the narrative. Um, you can follow the storyline, the things that are going on between David and Saul are they're just easy to follow. You can just kind of move along and see how God sort of orchestrates this sort of new kingdom that they're they're building or this new version of the of the kingdom, um, of their kingdom, literally kingdom, not the not the heavenly kingdom. Um okay. Well, this has been the Year Through the Bible podcast. My name is Rodney Adams. You are Andrew Forrest. Keep going. All right, keep going. We'll see you next time.