Mobile Podcast Trailer

What Kids Are REALLY Seeing Online (And Why It Should Worry You) | Mobile Podcast Trailer | Ep: 15

• Jesse Fitton Smith • Season 1 • Episode 15

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What are kids actually exposed to online today—and how dangerous is it?

In this episode of the Mobile Podcast Trailer, we sit down with Patrick Adams, creator of Lion Browser, to uncover the truth about kids, screen time, and internet safety. If you're a parent, business owner, or someone raising a family in a digital world, this conversation will open your eyes.

We break down the real risks of unrestricted internet access, how technology is shaping identity at a young age, and what parents can do to create a safer online environment. Patrick shares his journey building Lion Browser, a safer browser designed specifically for kids.

If you've ever asked:

“How do I protect my kids online?”
“What are kids exposed to on the internet?”
“How much screen time is too much?”
“What is the safest browser for kids?”

This episode answers it.

🎙️ In this episode:

The hidden dangers of the internet for kids
Screen time vs. real-life development
How parents can take back control
Why Lion Browser was created
Raising kids in a digital-first world

👇 Subscribe for more conversations with entrepreneurs, creators, and leaders:

Stay in touch with Patrick:
patrick@lionfamily.org
https://www.instagram.com/lionfamilyapps/
https://www.tiktok.com/@lionfamilyapps?_r=1&_t=ZT-95Z9vAoyYyz
www.lionfamily.org


#internetsafety #parentingtips #screentime #digitalparenting #podcast #entrepreneurship #onlinesafety #lionbrowser

SPEAKER_03

If nothing changes and kids keep using the internet the way they are now, what worries you the most?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I mean, I I was born in '87, and so I think I feel like we're at least I'm lucky to have life before the internet and then life after. And I think kids today, because they don't have that, you know, they they were born with, you know, iPads were already out, I think. Yeah, when all my kids were born. Um, and so I think the worry from a lot of parents, and especially my own parents, is that they're not going to be able to experience, you know, real life, like outside, to get to know people. There's going to be social anxieties, things like that. I have a harder time worrying about that stuff. Maybe it's because our family is very tech focused. I'm, you know, a software developer, so I'm on iPhone every day, you know, working on apps and things like that. So maybe I'm a little blinded by it, but I think if my biggest fear is that if you don't take steps to limit screen time and limit exposure to the internet, uh kids will see things or experience things or or talk to the wrong people, and that could shape their entire life.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Mobile Podcast Trailer. My name is Jesse. And if you've never been here, uh this podcast is for dreamers, risk takers, doers, um, entrepreneurs, um, and maybe even entrepreneurs that never even meant to end up in the entrepreneurial journey. If you have ever asked yourself, how did I end up here? This podcast is for you. And today we are here with my friend Patrick Adams. He is the creator of Lion Browser and a whole host of different things that I'm sure we will uncover. Um, but today, part of what we're talking about will be Lion. Um and I'll say welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for having me. This is yeah, I've uh I've been on a few podcasts, or actually, I ran a few podcasts back in the day. They were video game focused, but um, yeah, there's something about the podcast forum that's just I like to talk about things, so it's it's perfect for people that like to talk and uh need to find that, you know, the people that want to hear what they have to say, the podcast is perfect for that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, and also too, like podcasts allow us to be real. Um whereas like if you're doing a YouTube video for eight minutes, you can you can put on a you know a character for eight minutes. Yeah. But it's certainly hard to put on a character for an hour, yeah. Or two, you know, like um, I don't listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, but um you know, his podcasts are always incredibly long, and a lot of people listen to the entirety of it. And like I think part of it is that like they really get Joe. You know, like you're not faking it when you're on something for an hour plus. Yes, yeah, yeah. So um, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna start off with a question because um I wanna talk Lion browser and the family of of apps that you have that go along with it. Um, but I'm gonna ask this question first. Um if nothing changes and kids keep using the internet the way they are now, what worries you the most?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I mean, I I was born in '87, and so I think I feel like we're at least I'm lucky to have life before the internet and then life after. And I think kids today, because they don't have that, you know, they they were born with, you know, iPads were already out, I think. Yeah, when all my kids were born. Um and so I think the worry from a lot of parents, and especially my own parents, is that they're not going to be able to experience, you know, real life, like outside, to get to know people. There's gonna be social anxieties, things like that. I have a harder time worrying about that stuff. Maybe it's because our family is very tech focused. I'm, you know, a software developer, so I'm on iPhone every day, you know, working on apps and things like that. So maybe I'm a little blinded by it, but I think if my biggest fear is that if you don't take steps to limit screen time and limit exposure to the internet, uh kids will see things or experience things or or talk to the wrong people, and that could shape their entire life. Um, you know, I was exposed to things that I shouldn't have been exposed to at a young age, and I feel like it kind of, you know, changed my the entire trajectory of my life. Um so that's yeah, I think that's my main fear is that kids will be exposed to something that, you know, they're not going to be able to shake. Uh and you know, you also have this the social anxieties and things like that. You know, it's I know for myself, working from home, it's great. Like I love it. I've been working from home for eight years, but I've noticed that I used to be this social guy that would go out and talk to everyone. And now more and more it's easy for me to be like, no, I want to stay home. I don't want to go out, I don't want to mingle, I don't want to talk to anyone. And I think kids get comfortable, you know, with iPads, and that's that's their like safe, safe space. So it's harder for them to want to go out and talk to people. And so that's that's I think my main fear is that kids will grow up and just want to be at home and and not really want to like go out and make friends and do things. So I mean I mean we'll see how it turns out, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I would agree with you. Um, you know, what we we certainly, you know, obviously I'm uh I'm not developing apps, but I'm certainly, you know, in the world of technology and you know, social platforms and all of that stuff. Um I just don't want my kids to become addicted. That that would be my biggest fear is the addiction and learning how to navigate through that because you know, like I I don't drink or smoke because I have an addictive personality. Um so I choose to not start something that I know that I'd have to start. Um so but then again, you know, I'm still on my phone quite a bit once I'm home. Yeah. And not all of it is necessary. Yeah, and that's something that I need to do better at.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. It's easy to get um and yeah, I I think, you know, like how should I word this? Like with texting, for example, kids on, you know, are texting their friends and things, they're not they don't have, you know, the maturity. I can't even imagine if I had texting when I was 12 years old. It's it's hard enough to text someone as an adult and not take it the wrong way. You know, if you're texting family members or whatever, and then you read your text and you're like, whoa, they could read the tone of that any way way different than I intended. And so kids kids have, you know, they don't have that luxury of at least we know and we can see that that, okay, maybe that text was taken the wrong way. Kids don't have that. So I think there's a lot of you know, conflict through messages that are sent, you know, over iMessage or or whatever, whatever texting app you're using. And so there's a lot to be learned. I think, yeah, it because of that, it's like, you know, you can't drive until you're 16. There probably should be a law that's like you can't have a phone until you're 16 because you're not prepared.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I would agree. We're we're learning that now. I would even say like we're we're not gonna um you know, we have our kids, some of our kids have social media, um, but they don't they don't have any control over it. It's all us, yeah, mainly my wife doing the socials. Um but we don't have we're we're not pushing that. And you know, to to us it's like let's let's not even you can't have it until you're 18, like on you know, on your devices, on your phones. And even then, I may even make it a rule to be like, you can't have it until you're moved out of the house.

SPEAKER_01

I can definitely see with, for example, my daughter, she got a phone, I don't know how old she was, let's say 14 or 15. Um, I she definitely was not ready. She's 17 now. I would say I see definitely see improvement and and her maturity has changed to where I'm I'm like, okay, I think you can handle a phone now. I mean, she's already had it, right? But it's like finally at age 17, I that's when I'm like, okay, I think you can handle this, but if it was up to me, it'd be great to even wait until you're 18. And I know that sounds crazy and controversial. Right. I'm sure there's a lot of people that would be like, wow, you're way too overprotective. It's not that I want to shield my kids from you know making mistakes and things like that. It's, I just don't know if they have the capacity to learn when I don't know, social media and technology is just a totally different beast. It's not like you're going out talking to a friend face to face, you say something, you see their reaction, and then you adjust and you're like, oh, maybe I should respond a different way. You don't get that with texting. So then you go down these rabbit holes and then you lose friends. And I think, yes, you can learn from that, obviously, losing friends and things like that. But uh you might just start to think that that's your identity. I've seen that in my daughter, where it's like, well, I'm just good at losing friends. It's like, no, but like you're that that should not be your identity. And I think, you know, this is why you're not ready, quite ready for everything that a phone has to offer. It's way too open, you know. Well, I think too, like in the beginning, um, phones were phones.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, for calling. You know, they were you we were we called, and then text messaging was introduced, and then that that phone call that that relationship of hearing what your uh friends uh are, you know, you hear something in their voice, you see, you know when you're with them, you see the way that they respond to something, how they interact with you. You can almost tell when your friend is hurt, but over text message, yeah, yeah, you don't get any of that. And I've like, you know, when email first started happening, you know, I remember reading emails the wrong way. Like, you know, I would I would send I would send an email in all caps because I wrote in all caps. Not because I was yelling, but I didn't know the the etiquette, right? Um and so nowadays, like we do need to push our kids to that interpersonal communication and relationships. Yeah, yeah. Rather than rather than something else.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think for sure. There honestly should probably be a class in school that's like, hey, this is this is sending messages, this is the etiquette behind sending a message, whether it be text message, email, like because they might not have that uh exposure to friends where they know how to communicate. And uh so yeah, I I think just online etiquette and how to communicate is could actually be a really beneficial class for kids. I almost say that any type of communication almost needs to be done over FaceTime or Zoom or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

Because like if you know, so you know, is your oldest daughter homeschooled? Yeah. Um so all your kids are homeschooled, yeah. All mine are homeschooled.

SPEAKER_02

Um one of the things that we run into is we have you know, one of Eli's best friends lives in Wickenberg.

SPEAKER_03

His other best friend lives in, you know, North Peoria, on the you know, north of the 303 by the TSMC. Um they're 45 minutes, an hour and a half away. Like my best friend was next door. Yeah. Um I woke up on a weekend and went outside and knocked on my best friend's door, and we played basketball for hours. Yeah. Um that I think is kind of the the problem in our culture today. Like all of our friends live so far away. Um so that's where I I kind of go, FaceTime. Yeah. Like if you're going to talk FaceTime. One, usually it's loud and obnoxious, but we at least hear what's going on. Um, but also you get that almost face to face. You know, it would be nice if you could get together, but like my daughter, one of my daughter's closest friends, lives in Kentucky now. Like so the only way to communicate is, you know, FaceTime, uh a phone call or texting. I would I would err on let's always FaceTime so that that way you can see um because I think that that's lost. That's my biggest fear is like we're we're we're going to from texting our friends to now uh texting with chat or GPT. Yeah. And and it almost feels uh the same because what you're doing is you're only reading uh the response. You're not getting uh that uh like uh that uh true interpersonal communication. Um you're getting just uh the uh the visual response of what you said. So naturally it's gonna feel the same. So if you get a response from your friend and you get a response from AI, they're gonna feel yeah, they're gonna feel the same. So I I think I made the decision just now to that we institute FaceTime as much as possible. If you can't hang out. If you can't hang out with your friends, FaceTime as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's one thing that I, you know, I've been I was worried about my kids, you know, because again, most of their friends are further away. I I don't think we made a friend in the neighborhood, and then unfortunately they moved like two months later, and I was like, of course. Like here we go. Yep. But the cool thing that I have been seeing, I think, with this generation is they can call each other because they always have devices. Like for me, and I I do think there's something to boredom, and I do, you know, it's it is good to be bored. I I I think that's healthy for sure. But for me, it was like I couldn't call my friend. I like I like you had to go knock on his door. Right. If he wasn't home, I waited there, or I would wait on the corner or try to get some information or you know, talk to his to his mom or dad and see where he was and then wait until he got back. Um but the cool thing is most kids have some sort of device, whether it be iPhone or iPad, and they can talk all the time. And the crazy thing is my son talks to his best friend all the time, like probably too much, but I hear them talking constantly. And then the other cool thing is they'll invite people to the FaceTime or the, you know, audio chat or whatever. And so then they're, you know, they're talking in a group while they play games. So in a way, it could be the most social, you know, generation of our time, but they have to learn and be responsible. And we have to guide them, you know, in directing them towards, like you said, more FaceTime or audio, you know, just because if you don't have those cues, like there are times when I text someone, I send it, and then I read it back, and I'm like, wow, that sounded so dry or like inconsiderate. And then I realize, no, that's not how I was reading it in my mind, but this is how someone else can read it. And so even as adults, it's hard.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I that's why you know, we have a few friends that refuse to text. And anytime I text them, they call me and like, I don't want to pick up. But I pick up and then we have a great conversation. Yeah. If you're ever arguing with someone, call them. Because it it's so much harder to be mad at someone when you're talking to them with a voice, you know, or face to face. Right. And that's the other thing is, you know, there are conversations we've had with my daughter where it's like, would you say that in per in person? No. No way would she say that in person. So yeah, more and more FaceTime, definitely a good idea. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so was there a specific moment, maybe as a parent or a creator, where you thought something that's not right with how kids are using the internet, and that caused you to create Lion?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So the funny thing about Lion is it started almost in a like it was kind of like a greedy way. Uh so I think it was around 2015. Um, I worked at an agency in Philadelphia, and I was listening to this podcast, and the pod the guy on the podcast was saying he was talking about this uh story of this guy who was an atheist, but he was looking on the app store for an app that is used by so many people, you know, has a ton of reviews, maybe millions of users, but is not a great experience. And so he was looking for an app that he could kind of re you know, build a better version of that app.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, mimic the app, but create it in a better fashion.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So the funny thing is, and the reason I brought up that he was atheist is the app that he found was a Spanish Bible app. And so he decided to, I think he he wasn't even a developer. He hired developers, he created this Spanish Bible app, but made it so much better. And he was working on it or having people work on it once a month. And he was making, I want to say six figures. Uh, I don't know if that was per month or per year, but enough to just chill. Yeah. With very minimal work. So that inspired me. I at the time was using accountability browsers. I don't know if you're familiar, like XX Triple X Church was a thing back in the day. Um, and then they they made X3 Watch, uh, which was a browser for the iPhone. And it would it would track, or it was like an accountability browser. So it would send logs to a partner. And it was such a horrible experience. It was like the worst browser. I don't even know if it had bookmarks. It was like bare minimum, here's a web browser. And I just thought to myself, do we really have to compromise? I know I'm the one that's struggling here, and I need an accountability browser, but does it have to be like a bad experience? So I got two guys that I was working with, and I said, hey, let's make a browser, and we'll just, you know, we'll charge like $10 flat fee. Uh so it started out, Lion started out over 10 years ago as an accountability browser for guys. Um, and it was, it was good. I there's a lot of people actually. That are still using that original browser, even though it's no longer on the App Store. They can still use it on their phone. But then as my kids started to get older, specifically my daughter, I was like, you know, I want, I want her to be able to browse the web. You know, she would ask for my phone, like, hey, can I search, you know, why is the sky blue or whatever. And so I was like, I want to be able to her to have a browser that I know is like I know what she is searching for and I know everything's safe. And so I there came a point where I was like, I'm either ditching the lion browser completely because it was taking time, uh, or I'm gonna rebuild it, you know, from the ground up. So I decided I felt like as soon as I asked that question, God like, was like, rebuild it. Um, so I had got an instant answer. And so I started rebuilding it. And with but with the mindset of, I'm gonna build a browser that works for my kids. Like, and that, you know, it's a different thing when you're building it for a guy who just needs to avoid things, and it's a very simple, you know, you just have accountability partners and you know, you you send logs, but now I actually have to build like safety guardrails. I need, you know, full history uh, you know, uh tracking and things like that. So I yeah, it it was how can I build this for my daughter? And so that was what inspired, you know, the most recent version of Lion. And I think that's Lion browser is what kicked off um you know the other apps. Then I started thinking, okay, what are other apps, you know, that I would love for my you know kids to be able to use, but safely. Um and so yeah, like it was the same question with YouTube. Uh you know, YouTube became these are all problems that I had in with the family. Right. Like I want my kids to be able to browse the web, but I need it to be safe. I want my kids to be able to watch YouTube, but I need to be able to control the creators that they can view. Uh, or I want my kids to be able to use AI, but AI it can be a very dark rabbit hole, you know, if it's unrestricted. And so, you know, things like Chat GPT, it's like I I want my kids to be able to research something, but I don't want them to just be cheating on tests and getting answers and uh, you know, because then they're gonna grow up and they're not gonna have learned anything in school. So it was real problems that I want needed to solve for my family. And that's the other thing is like I created these for my family. So it became I don't really care or I don't need this to be super popular because it is solving a problem within my family. Right. And that's why I created it. So it's getting the job done. Um, but then after that was like, how do I focus and how do I make this something because I want to help other parents, right? You know, YouTube was a big thing. We we would always tell the kids, hey, only watch what we're subscribed to. But there's still browse, there's still search. Right. They can still access. You know, even in a public we we only let them watch YouTube on the TV in a public spot. But we're not always downstairs. We're not always, you know, watching everything that they're watching. So how can I how can I solve that problem and make a safe, you know, a safe YouTube? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So So it looks like um you already answered question number three. Which is did you did you see or experience did you see or experience, have an experience that made you go from an idea to something that had to be built? Yeah, yeah. And I would say what you just said is that. Yeah. Um well, you know, building something for kids uh comes with a bit of pressure. Uh what scared you most about taking this project on?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so with with adults, if you're creating an app, uh it's okay if you know there's a bug and something slips through. You know, it's it's not a big deal. You're an adult, you can you can handle that. But with kids, it's the stakes are much higher. If I if I'm advertising this browser as, hey, this is a safe browser, and then there's a bug, and kids are exposed to something that they shouldn't be, well now I'm the one to blame. Right. Uh and I don't want to be, I don't want my apps to be the the place where you know a kid is exposed to something for the first time. You know, that's so the the bar is so much higher. Um and there has been, you know, there was one bug where that someone found, which was like, hey, when I click on the terms of service, there's a Twitter link, and my kid could go to Twitter. And so because of that feedback, you know, I was able to go in and and make sure there's no you know links to social media and the terms of service. But that's the thing, is kids will find a way. They're probably the best bug testers because they know how they it's crazy how intuitive it is for them. It's crazy how when there's a will, there's a way. They will they will find a way. If you know they're they're the they're really good at abusing simple apps that you would never think you could be exposed to you know adult content in this app, and they'll find a way. So really making sure there's no leaks in the software um has been a huge focus for me. Um and I think I've done pretty good at it. I, you know, I've I test it thoroughly. And so yeah, just that bar is so much higher. Um and so that's why also I've put into place a lot of, you know, maybe if something breaks, uh you'll you'll be notified about it. So it's like, for example, in the parental controls, there's like it's pin protected. Well, but what if your kid figures out the pin? You know, kids are always looking over your shoulder or they guess the number or whatever. Well, now, you know, if a kid or anyone inputs the pin or changes it or deletes it, the parent is sent an email. So there's ways that I, you know, can get around like, hey, if something breaks, I want the parent notified right away. Right. So that they can, you know, change it. So yeah, it's it's a whole it's a whole nother beast uh making apps for kids, definitely, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Um what's something happening online with kids right now that most parents have no idea about?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's not even necessarily online. I think most parents don't realize how easy it is for their kids to get online. Um that's my I think that's that's where I'm most discouraged is the amount of parents that give their kid an iPad or an iPhone, and they they don't realize how much that will that can affect your kid. Most parents don't realize what their kids are are you know viewing online. If it's you know, maybe you block Safari. Like that's a great first step. Block Safari on an iPad and download Lion Browser. But even if you don't do that, even if you don't download Lion Browser, Apple makes it really hard to keep an iPad locked tight. Blocking Safari is not enough. You also have to make sure that you're blocking the ability to download apps. Because if Safari is blocked, your kid can just go download another browser from the app store. And you you you know, you wouldn't know. It's not even, and then it's not even that. It's not even that they could download browsers. It could be an app, for example. You know, maybe they're using TikTok or or um, you know, uh an app that lets you text people. Like I don't know if kids are using Slack, but let's say Discord or something. You can view links right inside of Discord. You don't even need a browser.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So to really completely lock down an iPhone or an iPad, it's really hard. And so that's my biggest that's that's the thing I'm most worried about is how can we educate parents? Because just blocking Safari, um, just blocking the App Store isn't is not enough. Right. You have to know exactly how the device works. And I think parents get discouraged. They're like, well, I'm I'm never gonna figure it out. So I just need to hope for the best. So they hand their kids an iPad and just hope that they're gonna be honest and you know, not look, but I know how kids work and they're and you know, we live in a you know, we have sin in us by nature. We're gonna be searching for the bad stuff. The funniest story is I was looking through search history on YouTube, and one of the search terms that my son, who was maybe seven at the time, searched for, he literally searched the words inappropriate content because he heard us saying, We don't want you to watch anything inappropriate. And he, you know, spoke into the Siri remote and was like, inappropriate content, like odd YouTube. Yeah. Because he knows he shouldn't be watching it. He doesn't even know what inappropriate content means, but he's searching for it. Right. So I I want to say, like, you think you can trust your kid, and maybe you can for a little bit, but the truth is you you can't. There's a gonna be a point where they're very curious, and it usually happens way sooner than parents think it's gonna happen. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It's it's tough to navigate. I when we were kids, so I was born in 81, so I'm I'm in like a micro generation of of time where like I think it's like 78 to 81 is like this true like gap in history.

SPEAKER_02

Um and like I really remember not the internet.

SPEAKER_03

You know, like you may remember not having the internet, but like the internet was right on your heels.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um I remember being in school and we would go to the computer lab, and the computer lab was just a room full of computers. There was like it was just all like DOS. You know, like it was it was terrible. And and then once I made it to high school, that's when, you know, the OS uh changed and you know, we started doing typing tests and you know, home row. And I remember my freshman year of high school, my um in English, we would we would have we would always go to the computer lab, and you know, my teacher would be like, okay, here's home row and learn how to type, and we do all these typing exercises. And I remember saying, like, these things are a fad. Like these things are gonna go away, like these things are not gonna catch on. They're so clunky and lame, and who's gonna wanna type at a computer all day long? Like, that's just stupid. And so I had an Asian friend who was like a computer genius and could type really fast. And so whenever my teacher wasn't looking, I'd have him type my stuff because I'd be like, I'd wait, and then I'd be like, dude, come on over. And he'd knock it out in 10 seconds, and I'd be like, Oh, thanks. Because I I was fully convinced that computers I I still don't want anything to do with them. And you know, I try not to do that much. Yeah, yeah. Like my I I have my team put you know, put everything on. Yeah, yeah. No, it's good to like we have a computer over there and it's mine, but I I don't really want it. I would love to not have everything.

SPEAKER_01

No, I agree with that. I I've uh you know, I've been working on software for the past 13 years, and it's like it would be great to find a different profession where I don't have to be on the computer all the time. But it's just where we are these days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um So what's the moment during building Lion Browser where you thought that it might not work?

SPEAKER_01

I think you know, it's just for me it was uh I'm just one guy. One dude that's trying to make you know the internet's a safer place. Um and there's entire, you know, huge companies that are out there uh doing trying to do the same thing. So finding a different approach is I think what I had to do, or else it, you know, this wouldn't actually be a product that parents would care about. Um you know, a lot of companies work on, you know, they'll have something you can install on the computer that tracks things. The problem is that works for that works for uh computers and it even works for Android. But iPhone is so locked down. Every app on iPhone is considered a sandbox. Nothing leaves the sandbox. So if you have an app, there's no way for another app to know or get data from you know that your app. Unless, you know, for example, Google has multiple apps, those apps can communicate with each with each other because they're all owned by Google. So Google can build that in. But for Google to be able to, you know, see what my app is doing, impossible because it's a sandbox. And iPhone, they're great. They take security very seriously, but to the point where it makes it impossible for you to come out with something where it's like, hey, I just want you to be able to install this on your iPhone and track all activity across all apps. That that's not possible. So what I had to do with Lion is separate myself from from those uh those companies in a because I know iPhone inside and out. I've been an iPhone developer basically almost since they came out. Um and so my approach had to be different because the only way to track things globally on an iPhone is either by signing into things like iCloud or by using VPNs. Like if you hook your phone up to a VPN, then all traffic goes through that VPN, they can track it. But then that becomes a problem where if you want to watch Netflix, well, now that Netflix traffic has to go through VPN, it can slow things down, all kinds of stuff. So for me, it was like I want to create native apps that run on the iPhone, just like Google, but they can be tracked, you know, by, for example, the Lion Family app. So that was my main goal is I have the browser, YouTube, AI, and then the Lion Family app brings all those together. And now the parents have like a dashboard where they can see. So there's no, there's no guessing, there's no VPN, there's no tracking at a higher level because that's not possible. Now it's each individual app is part of this ecosystem. You can almost think of it as kind of like an operating system where it's if you have an iPhone, you could set it up where you can only use the Lion apps, and then it becomes something like a gab phone or uh a bark now has a phone, I think. Um But that's that's where I would say Lion is different. Most kids, there's social pressure to get an iPhone. It's like Android's totally fine. I don't know. Do you have an Android or no iPhone?

SPEAKER_03

We we have iPhones, but we've like we've considered the Gab phones. Um Yeah, my son has a Gab phone. Off and on, we've we've considered it, and I just don't I don't know it. Like I don't know the environment well. Um just because I have an iPhone doesn't mean I know the iPhone well either. And just because I worked for Apple has no bearing of me knowing.

SPEAKER_01

Like Yeah, the the Gab phone's not it's fine. It's a great first phone. I would definitely say it's a great first phone. But now my son, who's turning 15 in October, is like, when can I get an iPhone? It's like iPhone's like the next step because all the kids have the iPhone, or dad, you know, mom and dad have an iPhone. It's like I want an iPhone, my sister has an iPhone. And that so I would I would say Lion is for, you know, highly recommend Gab phone or Bark phone, but there's gonna come a point where the kid is gonna be like, okay, now I want an iPhone. And whether you decide to cave or not, that's you know, that's up to the parent. But now for those iPhone users, there, you know, there's the the Lion apps are built for iPhone users. And I think that's what separates us from the competition. And your original question was like, what what was what was the hardest part, or what, you know, where could this fail? That that is where I would fail. If I didn't separate myself from the competition, then I would easily fail. I had to do something different because there's companies with investors and millions of dollars and tons of users, and for me to compete with them, I have to use my expertise, you know, with the iPhone to separate myself and say, hey, I know the iPhone inside and out. This is why you should use these apps. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna take a sip of water.

SPEAKER_04

You you totally can do that.

SPEAKER_02

Uh did did building this change how you see yourself as a founder or even as a parent?

SPEAKER_01

Um, no, not really. You know, I think I You've always seen yourself as a developer. Yeah, definitely as a developer. It's like, I don't know, I get imposter syndrome, and I've tried many times in the past to create apps to get famous and get popular. And you know, I've uh before Lion, it was social networks. You know, I created like an app for reviewing things, and then I created an app for families to like meet other families in the area. It was, it's always been social networks. Um and then, you know, with Lion, sure. Like, do I look at myself as a founder? Yes, but it's still the title, still seems, you know, when I put the title on LinkedIn or something, it's like anyone can kind of call themselves a founder or a CEO. Right. So for me, I feel like I haven't earned the founder or CEO uh title until this is something, you know, I might have a number in my head where it's like once we reach 10,000 users, then it's like a legit product, and I can say, hey, look, I'm a founder.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um even though you have proof of concept, you you have a number that will validate the, you know, if you hit 10,000 users, then you're like, okay, this is now it's a real thing. It it you know, it's funny because um you know, I manage YouTube channels and most of the channels I manage are very small. And really the intent for each of the channels that I manage is to attract high-end clients to, you know, what my clients do. Um, most of them are like luxury remodel companies or custom home builders. Um and so they they are dealing with, you know, multi-million dollar contracts. And when they when they get a new client and that client can say yes to them before they even meet in person, it's usually because they go, Oh, I've watched your videos. I see what you guys already do. So I know that you're gonna even if things go awry during the process, you're gonna still stick around. Um so they win contracts because of the videos that we do, not entirely because of the videos that we do, but having you know over fifteen hundred videos documented on one channel is uh valid it's validation of okay yeah you guys are legit. And so um even though that channel is almost at 11,000 subscribers it felt nice when we hit 10,000 because it was like oh yeah we've that 10,000 mark was like now we're a real YouTube channel. Even though like truly it it makes no difference. Um but that that vanity metric does make you feel a certain way. Yeah and it's like now I want to get to a hundred thousand subs. Um but subscribers you know in that case don't always equal you know lots of views and stuff like that. Um and you can you can go out and buy subscribers if you really wanted to yeah um we do not that's good I've always I've always been like let's just keep going until we hit and we had a video hit in the last you know few weeks and you know all it took was 1500 videos yeah well that's we get a video that hit a hundred thousand views so that's the thing is like yeah I my wife spent a lot of time on our TikTok getting like followers just to get that number up there and they're not they don't they're not they're not they're not great followers.

SPEAKER_01

They're not no engagement. They'll like stuff just out of obligation but it's like the number though now when people look at the TikTok they're like oh you have 4000 subscribers that's cool. Yeah uh so maybe they are legit but for me when I say sub subscribers I mean like paying customers you know because exactly I you know occasionally I'll get an email from someone that says hey I've been using your app you know for over two years and I love it. It you know it's a been a big part of our family. Um I've had people reach out and say really good things about Lion and when people reach out and say that then I definitely feel like okay I am a founder like I I created this but I don't get those every day. So for me my you know my bar of I've made it is I need to get that subscriber count up because then you know it's like anyone can create a you know a product that maybe has like 300 subscribers or 200 or whatever. Right. But once you get to product market fit and actually you see growth, you know steady growth, then then you can feel like you're a legit founder. You know yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well I I still struggle to call myself an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I mean same same here because like yeah especially now with AI that term is everyone is an entrepreneur. It's like it's gonna make that term mean nothing here soon. It's so saturated because anyone can now go into AI, make an app, make a website, come up with a business plan. Everyone's an entrepreneur now. So it's like the the word means less and less I feel like it does. And and like I've always like for me I've just felt like I'm not doing anything like unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03

Like I'm I'm just satisfying a need that I see in areas for people that want to be on the internet that want to do certain things but they don't want to pull out the camera and set it up and do it all. So I provide that service and to me I'm like I can't I don't really think I can call myself an entrepreneur. Um or you know like we're sitting in this trailer that I created um but I like any money from it yet. So I'm like I need I need some users to to justify calling it a you know an entrepreneurial journey. Like I I submitted the DBA because I have a company um and so you know I want to do business as mobile podcast trailer in certain you know scenarios and I I submitted everything but I haven't gotten an email back yet and it's been six weeks or more I don't even know where like who do I call?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah like I think the thing that's the thing though with any entrepreneur or or someone who's trying to you know found a company it's I feel like all of the founders if you you know if you talk to a successful founder there's probably like a a point in that person's journey where it's like nothing was working I wasn't getting the subscribers I felt like quitting everyone has gone through that. Yeah but then one thing changes you know maybe a video goes viral or you start to get the clients and then everything just starts to go up and up same thing can be with the mobile podcast trailer. You can just get the right person on there where it's and then and then you forget about I mean you're obviously you're not going to forget about the journey but then the focus is no longer dang it I need to grow this thing. It's like okay how can we exp how can we expand or or you know how do we do it the right way. Yes. So I think that everyone goes through this and it's only the people that keep at it and do not give up that actually because that's why so many you know companies fail is people give up at a at a certain point.

SPEAKER_03

Well I think too um that really kind of speaks to a lot of creative things. I don't know about like your creative journey um but like I was a musician for a lot of years and I wanted to get a record deal. I wanted to go on tour and we did you know we did go on tour we almost got a record deal um but now that I look back on it like it probably was good that I didn't get a record deal um because I'm I've learned so much about the music industry that I that I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't want to be a part of it. And so I look back and go, okay God like you had us even though at the time we were like why why didn't we make it um there was a reason.

SPEAKER_01

I mean I think about that with Survivor too just to go full circle is you know I ask God a lot like why why not me? Why can't I why can't I just be on Survivor? And I think if I ever do get on Survivor, I'm gonna look back you know after the experience and be like I was not ready. It you know there is a reason why God wanted me to wait or he you know put me through that waiting season. It's the same with right now you know I'm unemployed and I there's a lot of job opportunities that have come my way that I didn't wasn't able to secure I'm like Lord is there a reason you know I feel like Moses in the desert we just watched this Moses documentary it's like maybe he's preparing me for you know what's in store and there's gonna be like a dry season you know or a season in the desert um and then I'll look back and be like okay yeah now I see I wasn't ready wasn't ready for that or I was too immature to go on Survivor at that point. Yeah you know maybe it would have been a negative thing if I had gone on it and maybe it will still be a negative thing and I'm never going to be on Survivor.

SPEAKER_03

You know maybe maybe God knows I can't handle fame or you know like well that's you know I I think a lot of people um get to the top and realize how lonely it is um so I've I've I've had loads of friends um who have gone on to you know fame and um and some of them can handle it and some of them can't like I've I had one friend that he was on the he so he ran his his fame wasn't like outward fame it was like working with uh running live sound um for really large bands um and you know toured with Coldplay and Parachute and Paramour and all the you know really you know like big arena type stuff. Um and he told me he was like dude I've I've never been surrounded by so many people and been so alone um and I you know I remember when we were on the road um we were on a very very very small you know tour of like playing at churches but again like being surrounded by people all the time and being like golly this sucks like I'm so lonely because there are moments in time where you're like even though you're with your friends in a tour bus, they don't always want to talk about your junk. Um so that's hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah yeah you know yeah I think with Lions specifically it's like this this is why it's constantly my prayer is like Lord if you if you don't want me to be doing this please like shut doors and help me see like open my eyes because make it very apparent. Yeah because I don't want to waste my time with this you know there's like there's a fine line between hey I'm never gonna give up like that founder mentality and being stubborn where I want to make sure I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do. So if you don't want me to be focusing on Lion, please if it's a matter of I just have to wait longer and I'm I'm in the desert right now, please give me the strength to like get through this and understand that. And so he hasn't shut any doors with Lion yet um and I do feel like this is what I should be doing. It's just not maybe not moving as fast as I wanted to and again I think there's a reason for that is um maybe I need to have a certain maturity before he's ready to bless me. So that's why every morning I've been focusing on being in the word praying every morning I try to make it a priority because I'm like I want to make sure my heart is right if you do have blessing coming I want to make sure that I'm ready for it because I don't want to be caught off guard and you know find out actually I can't handle this. So that's why it's important for me to like make sure I'm making sure my heart is completely right with God first before you know before my day starts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think too like being aware of like preparing yourself for the day and for the the possibility of the change is key. Um I think that really what it is is that eventually what you know from founders and entrepreneurs that I interact with uh some see you know immediate success and some don't some sometimes it's you know a 15 year overnight success. Um it takes time. And um you know one of the things that like I I I relate it to is like I keep on going, why isn't anybody like calling me to do mobile podcast trailer and it's but it's because I'm not having enough conversations with people that could use it. I'm I'm having um great conversations with people that would like to use it um but may not be able to afford it just yet which is is fine because I need proof of concept anyways. And I want I want this to be its own part is like mobile podcast trailer, the podcast I want it to be its own thing. Yeah yeah so there is gonna be a part of like me on camera talking to people.

SPEAKER_01

Did you ever what did you ever listen to I think it was called the startup podcast. I've I've listened to it yeah yeah by gim gimbal or something is their their podcast company it was basically them they created a podcast about them creating a podcast company and it was I loved it. Like and that's definitely something I feel like is what sets you apart it's like hey I'm making a podcast about creating this mobile podcast trailer. Yeah like that is very interesting.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah so I just need to I need to network more I need to spend more time with people and maybe I don't know this just came to mind um I think that maybe you need to get a booth at a church conference or a parenting conference. Maybe you get a booth at um at the homeschool convention every year. But it could probably like Yeah that would I think that would probably be good. Yeah for sure I I don't know if you've ever thought about that before but like just as we're talking here um I know things that I need to do is get out in front of people that would be interested in this like truly I think blue collar workers and doctors would be interested in this um because I want I would like doctors who do um like elective stuff or um stuff that wouldn't like bother HIPAA um but like where we can do mock podcasts where then they can take it we can clip it into short form doctor talking to patient stuff like that. Oh yeah. And then blue collar workers that are like you know I don't have time to go to a podcast studio and I don't have an office that you know where I can build a podcast studio but they have something to say. Um you know window window washing companies garage door companies you know where if if they want to do a podcast in there out in you know the East Valley one day and they're like well I I have to take this call out here can you come to this look yes I can so that's kind of the whole process of yeah yeah don't give up I definitely think this especially now podcasts are huge everyone wants to be on a podcast do a podcast and this make this makes it so much easier so I yeah don't give up I do think there's it's just definitely a market for it. And for you too like we just got to put you in places where parents are because I I don't think one the price point is is good um and I don't see why parents wouldn't want to do it unless there was you know like obviously at a convention or something don't set set up next to a competitor but you know like I don't I don't know how many competitors are thinking about putting themselves at a conference or a convention um where you know it's involved kids, families and stuff like the homeschool convention is something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah the homeschool community is is huge for this. And I think people would eat this up in the homeschool community. Yeah. I think um one of the hardest parts of being a founder and and for myself specifically running line is feeling like it sometimes it's hard to be the cheerleader that the company needs where it's you know sometimes I second guess do I have a good product? You know it's like do parents want this um we're sitting in my second guessing yeah it's like second guess every day and I think that's the hardest part where it's some people just they're really good at sales they don't they you know they could sell anything. Yeah it doesn't matter. Catch a popsicle to a woman in white gloves. Yeah it and it's just like for me it's that's just something that I struggle with as a founder where it's like I know this is good and I know I've seen it firsthand and I use it in my own family. Yeah. And yet I still have trouble you know like going up to people and you know telling them about it because I'm like am I wasting their time you know that's I think that's my internal struggle. That's just who I am right where it's hard. And so for the people that you know go get successful or pretty quickly I think it's the people that don't have trouble or don't second guess where they they are convinced no matter what that their product is amazing. And it can be garbage. I've seen garbage products out there. Yep and that's how I would say that's how you know that my product is actually what you know the apps that I created are actually worth checking out because I am the first to say that even I'm utilizing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah so we'll see how it goes but um I appreciate yeah dude well I'm gonna ask you one last thing um you know there there are there could be you know lots of parents that come into contact with the content that we're creating today. Um what's one thing that um overwhelmed parents what's one step that they could take today um even if they don't you know sign up for Lion what's one step that they could take today and um to help better protect their kids yeah that's a good question and I you know I I knew this was gonna be a question and yet I still have trouble answer answering this.

SPEAKER_01

I think it is hard you know especially for parents that are overwhelmed it is hard to point them in a direction I'm half tempted to to tell parents to just email me because honestly I don't I don't know like there yes there's online resources but you have to know where to look um I would just say this don't let being overwhelmed like stop you from making this a priority it is I was reading a statistic I'm probably gonna butcher it but I I think it was like the average age of porn exposure is like 12 or 11 or something. I think it's actually much less but I was four okay yeah I was five um and I think the longer we can delay that the better. You know you're not gonna protect your kid like good luck protecting them until they're 18 like they're probably gonna see something but the longer you can delay that the better. So I know parents feel overwhelmed and technology is hard but don't give up do what you can set up some limits set up screen time. Screen time is a great place in an iPhone or an iPad to go and just set up some things um honestly though I want to be a resource for people that have questions obviously I think you know the Lion apps are a good place to start but if you don't want to I still want to help you know so you can people can just go to lionfamily.org and there's a contact form there and they can ask me like I want people to ask me questions about iPad like how do I limit apps? How do I block Safari? How do I do these things? And also I want to produce more short form or and long form content about forget you know forget the line apps this is how you set up screen time and and things I actually created a big document one time in Notion of like this was like the parental controls handbook. But then iOS 26 came out and some things changed and I was like I don't know if I want to update this every single time. But well that's actually a good way to monetize something. Yeah, definitely. So I think, yeah, my like I said, my my recommendation for parents is or my suggestion is don't give up. I know it's hard. Try to learn, you know, how screen time works and iPhones work. And if you have questions, just you know you can contact me on the website. But it is worth it. It is totally worth it if you can delay you know that exposure to adult content. I think that's you know especially as kids, it's really hard not to be interested, you know, in that kind of stuff. Because we're curious and I think the longer you can delay it, you know, the more mature your kid is going to be and that's going to help a lot. Because it I would say it definitely you know affected me in in most of my life. So it's it's it's something that definitely parents need to take seriously. Yep. I agree.

SPEAKER_03

Well dude we've been at this for hour hour nineteen nice well I'll wrap it up here. Um hey if you guys have made it this far I'm gonna have Patrick tell you his social media handles right now.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Yeah so TikTok and Instagram and Facebook are all Lion Family Apps. Lion Family apps. Uh the website is lionfamily.org so if you go on the website you'll see all four apps there. You can even subscribe I recently added the option to subscribe to the app so if you subscribe on the website it'll remember your email and everything and then when you go to download anything like Lion Browser or Lion Family, I recommend start with Lion Family. You can log in with that same email and you'll be already paid for uh and then from Lion Family you can go in add family members and get them set up with browser YouTube and AI. But yeah check us out um and uh feel free to use that contact form and reach out. I'll I'll even send out my my email is patrick at lionfamily.org so very simple feel free to email me if you have any questions about screen time or the lineups or anything I want to be a you know a resource for parents.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome man well thank you guys uh for hanging out here with Patrick and I and Patrick thanks for hanging out with me today I appreciate it thank you I appreciate you a lot and you guys have a good day