17 - Don't Make It a Sales Pitch, Carl Raven (Visa) on Winning Partnerships

In this episode of Tell Talks, we're joined by Carl Raven, Head of Issuer Enablers at Visa, to explore what makes partnerships successful in today's payments ecosystem.

Carl shares how Visa works with more than over 65 enabler partners including issuer processors, program managers and other ecosystem partners, why strategic partnerships have become more important than ever, and the common mistakes companies make when trying to build relationships with larger organisations.

We discuss:

• Why partnerships are becoming increasingly important in payments
 • What large organisations look for in potential partners
 • The biggest mistakes companies make when approaching Visa
 • Why transparency builds stronger relationships than sales pitches
 • How fintechs can successfully navigate large organisations
 • What makes partnerships succeed, or fail

Whether you're a fintech founder, payments leader or partnership professional, this episode offers practical advice on building relationships that create long-term value.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Tel Talks, where we speak to the people shaping today's digital economy. Today we're here with Carl Raven. Carl is head of issuer enablers at Visa. He's responsible for the relationships with all issuer processors and tech company partnerships Visa maintains across the European market. Welcome to Tel Talks, Carl.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Carl, for those who might not know you, tell us a bit about your role at Visa and how you've ended up working so closely with partnerships.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I think the introduction uh summed up pretty well. Uh so I lead the enabler team on the issuing side of Visa. It's my team that manage the relationships of all of the issuer processors, program managers, and tech enablers. So we manage about 65 relationships across Europe.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Wow. Have you got a big team managing 65 relationships?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Uh I did it if it's a little bit bigger. Um it's a team of six. And then going to your second question, how do they get into it? Um, really, that's the nature of the role. It's the team was created uh six years ago. I've been leading the team for the last two. Uh and we've been expanding the the relationships uh that in that time. So initially we were focused on processes only. The last couple of years, as the ecosystem's been shifting, we've been shifting with it and taking on more accounts in that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Partnerships are everywhere in payments now. Why have they become so central to how the industry operates, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I think they've always been central, um, but they're becoming more and more critical. So on our side, uh 65% of issuers, uh, the principal members of Scheme work with an issuer processor. That doesn't even include the number of other ecosystem enablers, which I know would be far more than 65%. So that stat alone just proves how important it is to be working with ecosystem partners and people across the value chain. I also think historically companies kind of stuck in their swim lane and focused on one core competency. Now we're seeing a lot of overlap of companies diversifying their service offering. We've also seen a lot of innovation in this space, which is driving up new companies for the first time. Um so therefore, being able to partner across that value chain has become probably more important than it ever has before.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, I th I we were talking about it beforehand. You can see the issue of processes um getting regulated or uh diversifying their propositions so they're becoming more bass in their approach as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, exactly. Um and even the fact we're here today, like five years ago today, um like open banking was a discussion, um, but wasn't sure if it was going to become a thing, and now obviously it it it's grown so much. Um so I think even the types of ecosystem enablers that that scheme needs to work with is a lot different than it was two years ago or five years ago. So it's really important that as a scheme we we shift with the ecosystem and we we have relationships across that value chain.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

What what do you personally enjoy about working on the partnerships and what's what's the hardest part?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

So I I love working with people, uh, I love working with the clients. Uh it's it's interesting working with so many different ones because um the types of um solutions or strategy or strategic direction you work on varies client by client, but then the hardest thing is actually having that many because you need to prioritize where to spend your time and the team's time and what's important for for visa. So that's probably the the biggest challenge is is is that resource uh and prioritization. Um but it's an interesting challenge. I think that number of partners will continue to grow, uh, so the team will continue to grow, and I think how we work internally at Visa to give recognition to enablers and how we approach working with enablers is going to continue to evolve.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

When you look at partnerships that actually work, what's what's the thing that tends to make the difference?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

I think it's um having uh clear goals and having a clear strategy. Um but I also think probably most important is transparency. Um because you want to go into a relationship and be transparent and open and identify where are the working points, uh, where can you you know jointly work and what's the action point, and that only comes with transparency. Um so I think that I I I think that's the biggest kind of thing in a partnership. Um with transparency, you get respect, you get trust, and the relationship then builds from from that point, and that's really a good starting point.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

I couldn't agree more. I was gonna say trust, trust is a big thing, but you're right, transparency is a is a driver towards developing that trust and that relationship.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And I don't think you get because a lot of the we've always said it, and it was always a it's been a cliche. I've I've heard a lot in my career, but people buy from people, yeah, or people work with people, and I I do honestly think that is um that is a genuine statement. Um, and it's the biggest thing that I say to my team is that you need to build a relationship first, and from that comes all of the other um elements of how we work with an account.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, totally agree. On the flip side, where where the partnerships usually fall apart, um is it misaligned incentives, unclear ownership, or something else?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

So, from from my experience it's uh unclear ownership is typically the biggest one. Um so where you typically don't have a single point of contact or it's not clear, and you're being hit from all sides of a business with conflicting um priorities, um, and then you end up just spending time answering the eight, nine, ten people that are coming at you with varying different um conflicting strategies. So typically that's where I see it falls apart. Um it's a lot easier or a lot more beneficial when you've got a clear strategy, a clear point of entry into a company. I I kind of view it it would be the same as an external coming into Visa. We have 5,000 people in Europe. If you didn't know where to go, you'd probably spend most of your time just speaking to different people, raising the same points, and it wouldn't really be um it wouldn't be the ideal way of working with us. So I kind of see it as a as a two-way thing. It's having that clear person to go into and a clear strategy, and then from that you can build on the the account plan and the partnership.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

That's a it's it's a really good point, and over the years I've it it wouldn't just say visa, but you know, navigating very large organisations. What what would you what would you say is the thing that a a smaller company, I mean we're a relatively small, small business, a a smaller company where you can see that you can develop some sort of a strategic partnership, how should they navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

I think um it first is identifying the right contact, someone is gonna help. So if it's an enabler coming through, our team will be that initial kind of gateway into the organisation, and really then it's leaning on that um that person to then help to map internally because that person's gonna that internal person's gonna know the org a lot better than what you would, yeah. Um so they'll know where to navigate you. Um and also it you know, when you identify that initial person, it's having that clear what's the value we can bring to you, and then that internal person, whether it's my team or someone else, is gonna know where to map you based off, or here's where we can work together, and here's the relevant team that are gonna then support you. Um if you come in and you say, Hey, I want a relationship with a visa, and there's you're not actually showing what you can bring, then it's really difficult to map. There's 5,000 people with so many different departments, it's difficult to then map you to the right place. So it's really having that initial champion that's then gonna map you and get you into the room of the right people.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, and I I I think a succinct value proposition that you can relay on because sometimes it's probably several conversations you have inside the business to relay on and replay, but it's not just one enabler that's trying to talk to you. There's there's lots of lots of them trying to engage and partner, right? From your experience, what's uh one thing companies consistently underestimate when when entering the partnership?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

I think it's the value that they can bring to scheme or to visa. So a lot of the time we get a sales pitch, but not necessarily a what's the value you can bring in the relationship, and actually what's the value we can bring as as visa. Um seen a lot of sales pitches, um a lot of we're the first ones to do this, and then I have another 10, 20, that's gonna be the same thing. Um but but actually each company does have its own USP, um, and I think it's don't underestimate your USP and what you're gonna bring. And I think it's really important that you bring that out quite early in the initial conversation rather than just making the first conversation a sales pitch. Um because a sales pitch is a bit more difficult to because then you are relying on the person you're pitching to to work out the value that you're bringing, rather than you actually just saying, hey, here's why we think it's important to work with us, and here's the benefit, and here's the mutual benefit for for both companies. I think don't underestimate kind of bringing that initially.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Totally agree. From a from a company like Visa's position in the ecosystem, how do you decide which partnerships are worth pursuing?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

So it's easy in my world because it's any that are connected to Visa as a processor or anyone working with the enablers. So my team's priority is to look is it what we would classify as an enabler or not? If not, then the next step is to find okay, what who should be speaking to you? Is that a business development team or is it the money movement team or or whichever? Um I think as Visa as a whole, I mean we we we need to be listening to these uh companies when they come to us, but it kind of goes back to the point that I'm made before. Um whoever whoever um they're speaking to a visa is going to be trying to understand what's the value that they're bringing to Visa, um, and then using that to determine if that's something we should be prioritizing or not.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Fair. How do you how do you balance working with both established players and newer fintechs, especially when their needs and pace are so different?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So I'm really fortunate that I have a really good team. Um so I think it's really important for the right person to be mapped to the right accounts because that is exactly what you mentioned, there's different um requirements needed. Um I'd say the the the newer ones tend to be more active at events, tend to be um need more of your time, which people actually get surprised, but they tend to need more of your time. The bigger ones, it's more around that program management because they're touching so many um aspects of the business already, and it's already established relationships. Um, but that's where you need to identify the right people within a team or internal to be working with those accounts. Um but you'd be surprised we work with them in quite similar ways because typically we're talking about the same products, the mandates are the same, what they're looking for tends to be quite similar, it's just product by product, but it varies across the accounts.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

If a company is thinking about forming a partnership today, what's the one thing they should get right from the start?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Don't make that initial session a sales pitch. Um I think it's it's just having a clear USP and it's around having a clear strategy, and you bring that very early into the initial session. Um I think there's so much innovation going on in our industry at the moment. Um, you know, we hear about it at all these events that we go to and and and across LinkedIn and etc. Um and that's not gonna slow down, that's if anything, that's gonna speed up, and you are gonna see more entrance into the into the space, but it's bringing that USPN strategy quite early on into the discussion.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Nice. Finally, if you could pass the mic to someone else in the industry, who would that be?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

So I won't give a who, because uh, but I will give a type of person. It'd be really good if you could if there was a consultant, it'd be really good to hear from an external point of view if they can validate what I've just said, or if they completely disagree with what I've said. But actually, it's really it's really interesting from from hearing from consultants of the trends that they see and the shift that they see. We work a lot with them uh in my role. I would be trying to build relationships with them. Uh I'd be super interested to hear.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

So maybe we need to pick one from one of the big consultancy firms, yeah, and then one from um uh what I would say the the more uh bes bespoke market specific uh I think that'd be good.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah, I think that'd be good.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Okay, cool. Well, thanks so much for joining us, Carl. Thanks to everyone watching. We'll catch you on the next episode.