Ep.131 How to Stop Repeating Your Parents' Mistakes in Your Own Marriage with Dave and Ashley Willis

Have you ever caught yourself reacting in marriage the same way your parents did — even when you promised yourself you never would?

In this powerful episode, Candace sits down with marriage authors and relationship speakers David Willis and Ashley Willis to talk about how childhood wounds, family patterns, and emotional baggage can quietly shape your marriage, communication, and parenting.

Together, they unpack how couples can stop repeating unhealthy relationship cycles, heal from the past, and build a healthier, Christ-centered marriage rooted in grace, connection, and intentionality. Dave and Ashley share practical Christian marriage advice for moms and couples navigating conflict, emotional distance, burnout, stress, and the pressures of family life.

You’ll hear honest conversations about communication in marriage, breaking generational patterns, emotional healing, finding rest in Christ, and why investing in your marriage deeply impacts your children and home. They also discuss the importance of prayer, community support, gratitude, counseling, and creating margin in busy family life.

If you’re a mom wondering how to create a healthier marriage and family than the one you grew up with, this episode will encourage you with practical tools, biblical wisdom, and hope that change is possible.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
How childhood trauma and family patterns affect marriage
Why couples often repeat unhealthy relationship habits from childhood
Practical ways to stop repeating your parents’ mistakes in marriage
How to improve communication and emotional connection in marriage
How prayer, gratitude, and faith can strengthen your relationship
Ways to prevent burnout and create healthier rhythms in family life
Why community support and counseling can help marriages thrive
Encouragement for moms seeking peace, healing, and a stronger marriage

Chapters

00:00 Why Marriage Ministry Matters
03:04 What Makes a Healthy Marriage?
05:59 Are You Repeating Your Parents’ Patterns?
08:50 Early Marriage Struggles Couples Face
12:01 Why Community Helps Marriages Thrive
14:48 Heart Change vs Behavior Change
18:00 Finding Rest in Christ
19:46 Creating Margin and Avoiding Burnout
22:45 How to Handle Marriage Conflict
29:36 How Marriage Impacts Your Children
33:34 Encouragement for Overwhelmed Moms

Resources

Dave and Ashley Website

The Naked Marriage Podcast

Do Marriage Better Book

MomQ Free Resource "Emotional Health Quiz" Download

Interested in Leading a MomQ group? Learn More

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to the Mom Q podcast, where faith meets motherhood. I'm your host, Candace Nasser. What if the marriage you're building today is shaping the spiritual inheritance your children will carry tomorrow? So many moms are carrying wounds or patterns from the homes they grew up in, and without even realizing it, those patterns are showing up in their marriages right now. Maybe you're feeling distant from your husband. Maybe you're doing all the work and he's not there yet. Maybe you just never had a picture of what a healthy Christ-centered marriage actually looks like. But here's what I want you to know: it's never too late to become a cycle breaker. In today's conversation, I'm joined by Dave and Ashley Willis, founders of Exo Marriage, hosts of the Naked Marriage Podcast, and authors of several books, including their newest, Do Marriage Better. For over 12 years, they've been walking alongside couples and helping them build marriages that don't just survive but leave a legacy. In this episode, we talk about the most common patterns couples carry in from childhood without even knowing it, what it really takes to break a cycle, and why behavior change alone will never be enough, and what to do when you feel like you're doing all the work and your husband just isn't there yet. Dave and Ashley share honestly from their own marriage, the struggles, the hard seasons, and the truth that changed everything for them. If you've ever wondered whether the work you're doing in your marriage is actually making a difference in your kids, this conversation is for you. Let's get started. Well, good morning. It's so great to meet you today. I have with me Ashley and Dave Willis and what a rock star couple you guys are with all that you do for marriages and your ministry, your podcast. We're just so excited to have you today. And this is a topic that is so near and dear to my heart just because of what I've been through in my own life. And so I know you're really going to bless our listeners. And if you could just both um just quickly tell us a little bit about your story and how you came into marriage ministry.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Yes, and thank you so much for having us, Candice. We're so excited to be here and we love what you do to just help families. I mean, we all we're all in this together, right? But as far as who we are, we are the Willises, parents to four amazing boys ranging in age as of right now from 11 to 21. And we live in Augusta, Georgia, and we've been doing marriage ministry for over 12 years. And um, we have a podcast called the Naked Marriage Podcast, and we've written many books and we travel around the United States and uh try to do our best to encourage marriages because we believe we don't believe that there's necessarily any marriage experts out there, and it certainly wouldn't be us, but we consider ourselves marriage encouragers because we all need encouragement.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Very good.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Very good.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

And so why don't you tell us, was there a particular season in your marriage that you decided to make the switch to what you were doing and to this marriage ministry?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah, that's a great question. I would say it happened about 12 years ago. We'd been in church work really all of our marriage and uh worked with youth, worked in a lot of different capacities. And through it all, we we just seen that, man, it seems like broken marriages or hurting marriages are the STEM issue for almost every issue people face. Whenever they they wanted to meet with us for counseling or prayer requests, if it wasn't directly related to their marriage, you could almost pull the pull the thread and trace it back to uh to a broken marriage issue somewhere. And we just thought, man, this is so foundational. By God's design, this is so foundational. And how can we help with this? You know, we didn't know where to start, but we wanted to help even beyond our own church. And so we started doing social media content. We started just creating resources. It was very small, very homemade. But through that process, we were learning because people from around the world started writing us and asking for prayer, asking us questions that would point us back to having to do the research and figure out, well, what is the answer to that? What does the Bible say about that? And so for the first couple of years, we were just learning. We didn't even realize God was equipping us to do this full time. We just felt the burden to help in any way we could. And after a couple of years of it growing organically, it got to a place where we just realized, hey, this is this is something we're called to, and we've got to really focus on it. And so for the last 10 years or so, we've been full-time doing marriage ministry, and it's looked different over the course of those 10 years. We've loved the privilege of getting to work together and getting to, like Ashley said, be an encourager, hopefully, to a lot of couples.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

Yeah, what a blessing. Everyone needs that. And and why do you think that is? I mean, what is it that's been happening in the past 10 years that's just made it so necessary for couples to hear this Christ-centered marriage approach?

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Well, I think that there's so many, especially young people out there who've just not seen healthy marriages. I mean, we were just, we were just meeting with a lovely couple yesterday, and they said they realized that they found themselves at a crisis in their marriage, and they said as they pulled that thread like Dave was was talking about, it comes down to they said, you know what, when push comes to shove and we're facing just real life troubles, we don't even know how a healthy marriage handles that because we've never seen it. And so I think there's so many of us out there that we're trying to do marriage God's way, but we don't even have something tangible to point to necessarily. And so part of our job is we want to give people just a view into how do we work through these marriage problems. I mean, one of our greatest privileges on the Naked Marriage podcast is that we get to talk about things and we hope that it's not what we say necessarily that that makes the biggest difference. It's really what they say to each other because we're hoping to give them language. We're hoping to give them, you know, a dynamic where you can see, you know, real hard conversations talked about in a really healthy way that can really move them forward and not backward. Because we're in a time where less and less people are getting married. They're choosing just to have a partnership maybe and live together, but they're so scared to make this commitment. And we want people to know that marriage is is a great gift. I mean, it's it's such a gift and God established it. You know, there's no perfect marriage out there. That's not the goal, but we can all make progress and we can grow in every season. And so that's really at the heart of everything that we do. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

I mean, everybody needs encouragement and hope, right? And you're giving them hope. And really that's what the Bible does is it shows us God's design for marriage. If we can do it his way as best as possible, then we can have a satisfied marriage, not perfect. I love what you said, not perfect, but satisfactory. And I can attest to that in my own life. I'm a cycle breaker. And I know that Ashley, you and I were just sharing that you're a cycle breaker as well. So, and and you talk about this on in different areas of your ministry. What are some of the common signs that we may be repeating cycles from our childhood? Great question.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, that is a great question. And I think by default, unless we're really intentional about it, all of us repeat the cycles that we grew up learning. Whatever you grew up experiencing, however broken it might have been, your your brain taught yourself that this is normal. Even if you hated it, even if you recognize in adulthood that's not good, our default is to go back to it until we get really intentional about saying, Lord, heal me from like from the trauma of that. Help me to choose a different path and to carve out a different path. And for you cycle breakers who are doing that, man, you're the world changers out there. And we just cheer you on and say, man, the world is a better place because of your courage in doing that. But all of us have to be mindful of where we go by default. Like when we get angry, do we we just snap like our mom or our dad did to us, or do we say, hey, I want to do it differently? I want to, when I feel those triggers coming on, I want to respond differently. And to just be a safe place for your family where your family has has the right to approach you and say, like, hey, you know, I that wasn't cool, you know, or that what I felt what was going on there? Like, let's talk about that because that didn't seem like you. That didn't seem and it and it and it also was kind of wounding to me. And so, like, let's let's really talk about that. And don't get defensive when your spouse especially comes to you with something like that, but lean in with curiosity because they're seeing your blind spots. They're not trying to just beat you over the head, they're trying to help you become the best version of yourself. And Ashley's done that for me a lot, even though I I grew up in a in a healthy home, not perfect, but a really healthy home. But I still have all of my quirks and brokenness and all of that.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Well, we're sinners. We're all sinners.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yes, right, right, yeah. Yeah. And so I'm trying to not break the cycle the other way of going from a good example and then becoming a bad example. And so all of us have to be really mindful.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

We do. And I think, you know, kind of some other signs is if we're constantly trying to turn our spouse into this other person that they're not, because maybe that's how mom did it, that's how dad did it, or there's just deep, deep insecurity that's coming up a lot because we're holding ourselves to maybe a standard that we saw in the home, but it's not living, you know, it's not really authentic to us. Because what we need to realize is when when a husband and wife come together, yes, we come from our two different families, and those patterns, you know, healthy and unhealthy, that we bring into the equation, but really God is establishing something new through the two of us. And so we don't have to just do it, you know, my family's way or your family's way. It's like, what has God called us to? And that was something that I really struggled with in the beginning of our marriage. In fact, I mean, I would even say I did not realize some of the unhealthy patterns that I was really prone to repeating until I moved out of my home of origin and was living on my own and just kind of catching myself falling into those patterns. But as a kid growing up in that home, in that wonderful home, a loving home, but just with some unhealthy things, I I remember kind of having that default time where I was, you know, getting ready to kind of be dominant and lash out at Dave and almost trying to control Dave, which is similar to the house I grew up in. And really quickly the Holy Spirit, like, thank God, convicted me and was like, whoa, you do not want to do this. Like, you need to break this pattern. And so what I did, because it really sent me into kind of an identity crisis, because I thought, well, gosh, I don't even know how to do this. Like, this is all I know. Women for generations have been dominant in my family. Women for generations have been anxious and have been controlling because, you know, people who want to be dominant and want to be controlling, it's usually deep, deep woundedness and insecurity and brokenness within that individual. And I just knew I needed to get help. And so, you know, early in our marriage, we sought a counselor. Like we went to a counselor and that counselor handed um me the book boundaries and was like, first and foremost, you need to have healthy boundaries with your own family because there was some stuff going on with my family. And uh, you know, through a long period of time and through the establishment of boundaries, God did a great work there and we were able to find our footing as a couple, but also have a healthier relationship with our families. But I I remember just in that time, I truly, some of these things that might seem obvious to some of the listeners, you know, were not obvious to me because again, I didn't know what I didn't know. And so I had to be teachable. And that was something I really um, I really had to, you know, dig deep into my faith just to learn because we have to humble ourselves and say, oh, there's a lot I don't know here. I need to learn. And with God's help, we were able to learn a lot of sort of how to communicate in a healthy way, how to have a partnership, how to submit to God and to one another and to thrive as a married couple.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

Dave, how did you feel in those beginning times when she was trying to control you? How were you able to navigate that as you began to get the counseling? Was that pivotal for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Absolutely. And it was also kind of jarring and unsettling because I'd not grown up seeing that. And and so I wasn't sure how to respond because I'd never experienced it before. I'm like, wow, this is this feels wrong. In fact, I recognize as immature as I am, I recognize that this is unhealthy, but I also don't have any framework for how to deal with this because I've never seen it before. And I was dealing with with my own issues too early in our marriage. I I had brought in a like this secret struggle with pornography that I had not confessed. You know, when that finally came out, that created a lot of trust issues and and really made the cycle for a short time kind of get worse because her anxiety, which she was already experiencing, got deeper as a result of my sin. And and there was a bit of a gap there in rebuilding trust and all the things. And we we've talked at length about all those things, so I won't, you know, spend the whole episode doing a deep dive into that. But those early years of our marriage, we were both doing our best to unlearn some bad habits, to start learning some new habits, and to figure out, like, okay, with both of our unique personalities, our homes of origin, which were vastly different, how do we create something new? Because the moment we got married, we created a new family by God's design, even though we'll always be connected to our families of origin. This is something new. What is God's vision for this family? And how are we gonna do it his way? And we just we dove in, realizing with humility, we don't know what we're doing. We looked for mentors, we got counseling, we dove into God's word as best we could. Um, and we just thought we we're gonna sink if we do this in our own strength. And so those early years, he gave us a lot of grace and helped us to build a foundation, but it was a messy process. And I would say it was probably about five years in after the birth of our first child, and we're when we eventually moved away from from our home state and kind of really did the whole leave and cleave thing at that point. I think that's really the moment that our marriage was kind of reborn and all those hard fought lessons of the first five years we were able to start building on.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Right. We started to see those seeds really take root. And I will say this one of, I know I talked about counseling. I am my a biblical counselor, actually went back to school years ago because I knew that I needed to learn more about this, but I also wanted to pay it forward in all those years that counseling made such a difference for us. But I think even beyond counseling, I think that surrounding yourselves with some healthy, not perfect, but healthy marriage examples is huge. And for us, we got involved in youth ministry at our church just as volunteers. And we were around, we didn't realize it was like the very thing we needed, but we were around some peers, like people who were also young married like us, but also people who were 10 years ahead of us or even 20 years ahead of us. And we're still in relationship with those people today. But when I look back, during that time when we felt so like, what are we doing here? We had people to look to and really learn from. And that made such a difference. And so I would encourage uh the listeners, you know, look in your church, look in your community for those marriage examples. I mean, you might have them in your family as as well, I hope so. But even if you don't, they are all around you and they are more than willing to teach you what they know.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Well, and and fight for community. And Candace, you'd ask kind of about kind of things that are they're missing now. I feel like that's something that's really missing now. And I I was reminded that Ashley mentioned this young couple we were uh working with just yesterday who, you know, they're they're leaders, they are they're known, you know, on social media by a lot of people and all those things, but they just very vulnerably said we have a lot of people who know us from afar, but really there's almost nobody that knows us up close. Like we're not in community. And it was so heartbreaking to me for them, and also just the epidemic of that happening in our world, not just of young people, but of all people. We're we're we're connected. You might have thousands of friends on on social media, but how many people really know what you're going through and are doing life with you and are close enough to you to to call you out when you need it and to pray specifically for you and to and to care. And we we need that by God's design, we need that. And that's what's missing. And that's I think Satan's game plan is to isolate. You know, he tries to just isolate us. We need we need community. And I think that the biggest thing that helped us early on and that we still fight for to this day, is to not just be kind of like vaguely known as a persona by by people that we might never meet on this side of heaven, but to be really deeply known by people up close to us, starting in our own home and then also the community around us, because we all need that, and we're only going to be the best versions of ourselves when we we really fight for that. It doesn't happen by default. Like we have to, we have to forge community, not just try to find community. We have to really work with it.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

I love that so much. And and I have to just interject that that's that's why I started mom queue, because it was the when I was early, I became a believer in a Bible study for moms, and I surrounded myself with moms and families that I was like, I want that. And and the community to this day, I see these moms are I get emails from all over the country where moms are like, I'm lonely, I'm isolated, I need spiritual connection and guidance and biblical encouragement. And so that's that's why we do what we do as well. And so that, yeah, that's a huge I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

And the other thing is, you're doing a great job with that just to Yeah, you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Thank you. Thank you so much. And and the other thing I want to address is you're you're saying something, a couple words that I like to harp on, and that is you're teachable and humble. And I always see, a matter of fact, of marriage just fell apart in my family, and it is so disheartening. And and I see such a I see a lot of I know I'm at fault, but not teachability. And I think, you know, that really having someone speak into your life and being teachable and open and being able to see and hear from the Lord is key. And that helps me transition into the next section that I want to talk about, and that is breaking a cycle is so much more than behavior change. It is heart change. That's where God has to really get in there and do the work because we can say, okay, I I'm gonna change this for a week. I mean, we want to change it and it lasts for a week, right? So can you talk about that a little bit? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, I mean that that really is the root of it because there's there's a whole lot of self-help out there. I mean, it's hard to scroll through any of my my feeds without somebody trying to tell you, if you'll just do these things, then everything everything will be better. And there's certain we can make incremental improvements in our health and most parts of our life just by tweaking our habits, certainly. But to really become the people God want us to be, it's impossible to do it in our own strength. It's just impossible. We need the Lord's help. We need a savior. And the good news is Jesus already did all the work. Like he already paid the price, he said it is finished, he offers it to us freely. And and the more we lean into him, the more peace we have in our lives. And I'm saying this as a guy that's like a recovering, just overworker and overthinker. When you read the Bible, Jesus never says like you're not doing enough. And and you know, it's always, come to me, those who are weary, and let me give you rest. And what an invitation. What an invitation that Jesus Himself, you know, our Savior, our creator, is inviting us to say, Hey, you know what? I see how hard you're working, but what you really need is to just rest in me and find your identity in me and not in your striving. And certainly when we work, we need to work hard and work's a part of life, but it's not our identity, it's not this never-ending treadmill that we can never get off of. And so many people, and I've felt like that before. My health gave out 10 years ago from living an unsustained lifestyle like that. I had a thyroid disorder, I mean, just all kinds of stuff started happening to my health, and it was my body's way of saying, hey, God designed you for peace, and you're not, you're not living that way.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

If you're listening to this and thinking, I recognize some of these patterns in myself, but I don't even know where to start. I want you to know you don't have to figure that out alone. We actually have two free resources to help you take a next step today. First, the MomQ Emotional Health Quiz. It helps you identify where you might be carrying weight you were never meant to carry, so you can start doing the deeper work with clarity and without shame. And second, if you're craving real community with other moms who are doing this work together, a mom queue group might be exactly what you're looking for. We have groups in select locations, but if there isn't one near you yet, this might be your invitation to start one. If you're a spiritually mature mom with a heart for other women, we will equip you to lead. Because we were never meant to do this alone. Find both resources at momq.org or through the links in the show notes. All right, let's get back to this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And so don't do what I did and wait until your body just shuts down on you. Start embracing that peace early. And your relationships, every part of your life will benefit as a result.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

I couldn't agree more. And I think in order to have that heart change, we need to have more margin in our life. We live in a society that says the busier you are, the more important you are. Keep on grinding, keep on, you know, hustling. And again, I I reiterate what Dave says, work hard, but also model what Jesus did. And he had a Sabbath and he didn't let people always make his agenda. He was like, no, this is what God's called me to. And so how much more so do we need a Sabbath? And so I just think, what does that look like? Look at your calendar and really ask yourself as a as a as a single person or as a married couple, like what really needs to be on here in this season and what can I say no to or not right now?

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Well, tell them the three C's because Ashley has this thing about think about the three C's and it it's Yes, the three C's.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Well, that is one of them. So the first one calendar. Look at your calendar. I think no is a powerful word. One of my favorite books back in the time of my life with having young children where I just felt just overcommitted, overwhelmed, and all the things, and really airing on burnout if not already burned out, is I read this book by Lisa Turkers called The Best Yes. And um and it's probably like 10 years ago, but I still recommend it today. And it it is so good because it helps you to let your your yes be your best yes and your no or not yet to to stand you could stand by that and make more room for those those good things in this season. And I think that we need to do that more. I think so many times we let other people, other circumstances just roll the roost, and we need to realize we have agency here, like we have choices. And just because we can't do something in one season, it doesn't mean we can't do it in the next. And so, you know, it's not everything all the time. So the second C is your community. We've already talked about that. Really leave room, make room for community. Don't let it be on the back burner, make room for a community. And the third C, and I I'm drawn like what are you consuming? And so our mind, this this really comes to consume the mom queue podcast a bit.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

That's right. That's what we're telling.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

That's a huge thing. Mom Q, you are on the right track. But what our eyes and ears are taking in really affect how we look at things and really affect the state of our heart. And so we need to think about what am I watching or what am I listening to that is serving me or not serving me?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Well, even when what are you eating and drinking too? I mean, like what are you consuming in all All of that, you know, is is gonna have an impact.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

And so it will, it will. And so, you know, we need to make space for prayer. We need to make space for reading God's word, meditating on his word. I will tell you personally, during that season of anxiety and just this identity crisis, trying to find our footing as a married couple. One of the things that I did was I wrote down scripture on cards and I would post them where I could see them. And so I'd post it on my bedroom mirror, I'd post it in the bathroom, I'd post it in my car. And then I would literally just say that verse out loud if I was by myself, if I was feeling anxious, but also just committing it to memory because, you know, his word never returns void. And I'm telling you, I still to this day, you know, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 about trusting in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding and all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths. That is my life verse. And um, in fact, when I sign books, and we always put that, you know, life verse within our books, because I think for real heart change, it takes trusting the Lord. Because I think that we tend to not make space for, you know, all these things I just mentioned. Because again, we we're trying we're trying to do, you know, do all these things to make the change happen when really it starts with trusting God, reading his word, and allowing him to do the change from the inside out.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

And guess what? That's my life verse too, Proverbs. Yay! I love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

That's so awesome. I love it. It absolutely is. Um, okay, so there's I know there's moms out there that feel stuck because they're maybe they're feeling like I'm doing all this and my husband's not doing anything.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

What would you say to that mom? I'd love to hear from an actual husband to speak to why moms who can maybe get an insight into what it's like being a husband.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And first off, just to just to empathi empathize with you ladies, that is such a tough place to be. And so many, so many women in particular write us and feel that. My husband husband's not being the spiritual leader I want him to be. He's not being present emotionally or maybe even physically. I feel like I'm in this marriage alone. And behind our kind of smiling family pictures on social media and Christmas cards, I just feel like I'm living as a single person almost. And that's heartbreaking, and that's not the way God designed it. And so what what do you do? Each each situation's a little unique, and so I always hesitate to give kind of blanket advice to everybody when it's something that's so nuanced and and complex as each relationship can be. But I would say, first and foremost, pray. Prayer is not like a like a passive alternative for action. I think we have to look at prayer as as an action that will also God use to prompt us to additional action a lot of times. But prayer is powerful. So pray that God would give you the right mindset, the right responses, and the right words as you approach your husband and model for your husband by how you treat him the way you want your husband to treat you. Because in marriage, it's not I'm gonna treat you the way you treat me, it's I'm gonna treat you the way God treats me. So God gives his best to us, he loves us when we're unlovable, he pursues us when we're unworthy, and now he says, now go love each other that way. That is not that is not saying that you need to allow for any kind of abusive behavior. Certainly not. But if it's just a matter of he's distant, he's disconnected, start by trying to pursue him with the same love and grace God has pursued us with. Number two, I would say show gratitude. You know, men and women, we all respond to to gratitude. When we feel like what we're doing is seen and appreciated, we want to do more of it. I think it was James Dobson who said rewarded behavior is repeated behavior, not just for ch for kids, but for for adults too. Like when when we feel like, okay, I'm gonna be praised for this or thanked for this or seen for this, we want to do more of it. So if your husband is doing anything, anything positive, praise him, say, I I appreciate how hard you work for this family. I appreciate that you mow the yard and you know, we don't because I would be terrible at it, and you do a great job, and we would have to pay someone to do it. And I I just appreciate what you do for for our family. I I thank you for thank you for you know taking Johnny to baseball practice. He loves that time with you. I love seeing the two of you connecting. Thank you. Just those little things where you just think, I shouldn't have to thank him. That's just what you're supposed to do. Yeah, maybe, but when you choose to have gratitude, it changes the whole dynamic. It changes your own posture towards him and potentially it could be one of the things to kind of help melt his heart a little bit too.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

And so it's tough, I would say, if you just keep hitting a wall, try to encourage him to go to to counseling with you or something specifically to work on your marriage, just say, hey, I want to, I want to be closer. Like, and I know that we can, I want to be best friends again. I want, I want this marriage to just thrive in every way, and and I want to be the best wife for you I can. I want all those things. And and we don't seem to be figuring it out on our own. So would you come with me to counseling and just keep asking? I know it's tough, and I know there are a lot of you that are just maybe rolling your eyes, like, I've done all that and more, and nothing has happened. And I just I just pray for you. I just pray that God would keep giving you strength and and grace as you're um in that dynamic.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

And patience. Because things don't usually happen overnight. And um, that's the thing with marriage, is it's a husband and wife in the Lord. And sometimes one partner's really pursuing the Lord and a relationship with God and the other is just not for whatever reason. And then we're in that waiting game, and that's where it gets really hard. And so I would tell a wife in that kind of dynamic, really every single day, pray, Lord, help me keep a soft heart. Because I've talked to so many wives who their hearts just grown hard. And and you you see why. I mean, when they feel like they're just doing it alone, they're like, why even be married? Like, I feel like I'm doing everything alone anyway. And that's where the enemy really enters in and just tries to make us grow harder and harder and more distant. And you see, you know, like there, that's why there's this epidemic of empty nest divorces, because they raise the kids, they may stay for the kids, and then they're like, I am out, job done, see you later. And um, and there's just so much heartbreak in that. Because the greatest thing we could give our kids is the gift of a husband, like a mom and dad who love each other, who aren't perfect again, but who are who are fighting for each other and not against each other. And fighting alone is one of the hardest dynamics. I mean, we have a teaching on this where we call it living, living out your marriage in the love seat or the me seats. And so we talk about three different dynamics that God wants us to live in the love seat together, not where we had, you know, unity, but not necessarily uniformity. That'd be boring anyway. But many times it's, you know, a husband or wife in the me seats where it's just all about me, it's his and hers, you know, it's just about what you're getting out of the relationship. But the hardest dynamic is where one of you, like in this scenario, you're talking about the moms or the wife, is in the love seat trying to fight for her marriage, trying to read the Bible, trying to go to counseling herself, all the things, but her husband's over there in the me seat. That is so hard. But you know, at the end of that talk, we talk about how it can feel like you're alone, but really you're not, because the love seat is God because God is love. And so you rest in that love, you surrender to him daily at um all those feelings. And you have to feel your feelings. I think journaling is huge here, just processing it, not stuffing it down. I think stuffing it down really leads us to have those, that, that, that hardened heart or that, you know, becoming kind of a shell of a person. And again, that's where community comes in. I if it's not counseling, or maybe in addition to counseling, join a marriage group, join a group of fellow wives. I mean, there's so many resources these days. And sometimes just hearing somebody else say, you know what, I walk through that too. And here's what helped me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

I mean, I can honestly speak into this because my husband has never wanted to go to counseling. And so I've been to counseling and I've brought stuff home. And sometimes it went over and sometimes it didn't. But I prayed and I prayed and I prayed. And we are now in a season, after 35 years of marriage, of being in the greatest place that we've ever been. And it's all the things that you're saying, honestly. And and so I couldn't agree more. And I just I just love what you guys are all about. And and so let's transition now into talking about how that affects the family. When we are cycle breakers in marriage or not, what does it do for our children? What is because I I just listened to y'all's podcast on legacy and I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

So thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, thank you. Well, I I think one thing is realizing that working on your marriage and prioritizing your marriage, it isn't isn't at the expense of your children. It's actually a gift to your children. And that's by God's design. God designed that our most important relationship on earth is first and foremost with him, with the Lord. But then second to that, and only second to that, is is a relationship with our spouse. And what happens often is, especially if you feel a disconnect from your spouse, is you you kind of pour everything into the children. You look to them for the emotional connection that you you should be getting from a spouse. And when that happens, it creates this broken dynamic that can lead to codependency, it can sabotage your kids' future relationships. And and I understand how it happens, and so I'm not trying to sound judgmental. I'm just pointing out what can happen. But when you really focus on the marriage, it gives the kids a great sense of security in seeing mom and dad prioritizing their relationship, knowing that they're good, and then helping them to want be excited one day to be married themselves. And so it creates creates that kind of generational legacy of looking at marriage as a gift in a world where so many people, like we said at the beginning, don't necessarily have have a good example of that. So when you prioritize your marriage, it's actually going to make you a better mom and a better dad. And uh, and we try to remind ourselves of that when we tell our kids, hey, it's date night, and they're like, oh, we wanted to do this or that. And it's like, I know, and we'll we'll do that tomorrow. You know, tonight's, you know, mom and dad's night, and and modeling for them, making it a priority, I think really gives them a sense of security.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I think so too. And I just want to share some dear friends of ours, probably about 10 years ago, were just finding themselves, they were like 15 years married, just nothing like catastrophic had happened, but they both had kind of grown a little hard towards each other. You know, the wife felt like she was, you know, doing all these things that weren't appreciated, and the husband felt like he was doing all these things that weren't appreciated. And they found themselves at first arguing, but then not even arguing, which is there is something worse than fighting all the time. What's worse is apathy, where you're just, you're like, well, why even fight? You know? And so they knew it was like lights on the dashboard of their car. If their marriage was a car, it was like flashing all the lights. And they didn't just say, well, this is just who we are now, or let's call it quits. They went to counseling. And at the time their kids were old enough to know that, okay, things are different here. And um, as much as they tried to hide it from the kids, they realized, you know, they they're bound to feel this. You know, kids, they feel stuff. And so um, I was talking with my friend and she was like, you know, we're going to counseling. It kind of gets messier before it gets better. But she's like, We're we're in this. And she's like, How do I, you know, my kids know something's up, but I don't know how to handle that. And I said, Well, at an age appropriate level, let them know mom and dad are talking to a counselor because we love our marriage and we love you guys. And this is a healthy part of life is getting help. And they did. And I'm telling you, it took about probably a year of almost going weekly to counseling, doing retreats. I think they were involved in a marriage group at their church and they, but they were open with their older kids about this. And I've seen such a change in this family, and they are just amazing. And their kids have learned so much on how in relationships, how do you handle conflict? If you don't know how to handle something, oh, you can reach out for help. And and to me, I think that there's such a learning opportunity in that that I think sometimes as husbands and wives, we're afraid, like, oh my gosh, our kids are going to be worried. But it's like, that's why you have hard conversations and that's why you let them know, like, we're in this. But sometimes we need to reach out for help and we're learning all kinds of things. I mean, obviously there's you don't, you know, there's discretion here. But I think that even just having age appropriate conversations about that can really teach your kids a lot about how to have a healthy and thriving marriage.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And and set up a role model. Yes. Of, you know, it's never too late to get help. And then of course, it gives the kids that security going forward. So well, guys, as we start to wrap this up, if you had one thing that you would want to say to a mom today um about this conversation and and how to what you would want them to take away, let's let's hear from each of you.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Well, I would just start by saying you are a good mom. And I I can say that without knowing you personally, but what I know about you is that you have just taken time, you've just taken the last 30 minutes or more to listen to something specifically to be a better mom, a better wife, a better follower of the Lord. And God sees that. He sees the effort that you're making, he sees the investment you're making, he sees the desire of your heart. And and in a world that's like always telling us, hey, we don't measure up, there's all these other things I need to do. And maybe your temptation after listening to this is just feeling, oh man, I'm not doing this right, or it just feels like it adds more to your list of things you're not doing before you know anything else. I just want you to know God loves you, He is so proud of you, and you are a good mom. And thank you for being part of this this mom Q community. Thank you, Candace, for the uh the amazing example you're setting in in building this community and being a cycle breaker. So just without really giving any any more advice, I just wanted to, I just felt I had to give some encouragement and some gratitude because the moms don't get nearly enough of those things.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

I love it. Preach it, sweetie. That's great. Absolutely. Um I just want to add to that and say, even if you're in a really, really hard season right now, just know that God does not waste anything. And on the other side of this, there is such strength that if we just push through, if we just take it one step at a time, that you will see him use this for your good and for his glory. And there's there's something really beautiful in that. But I also want to say this. We wrote a book called Do Marriage Better. And it's about seven simple shifts you can do to build more connection in your marriage. And the reason we wrote this book is because I think so many times we just feel overwhelmed. We're like, well, there's too many things that we need to change. There's these huge changes that need to take place. So I guess we'll just keep on existing because that sounds overwhelming. But I would just tell you, just even from this conversation, if you could just start doing one thing, yeah, just start doing that one thing. Like start with gratitude. Wake up every morning, ask God to bring something to mind that you're thankful for in your husband, and then go to your husband and thank him for that. And just try to do that daily. And and just that alone will change the dynamic in your home if you do that consistently over time. I mean, just take it one step at a time. And once you feel like you've mastered that thing and it's become, you know, helpful in the rhythm of your life, then introduce another thing. We don't have to do everything all at once. In fact, that's too overwhelming to even think about. So just start with one little simple shift and see what God can do with that.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

So good. Guys, this has been just life-giving. I love it. We'll put all of your how to find you, your podcast, your books in our show notes. So I just can't thank you enough for being here. You guys are great. Thank you for your ministry. Thank you, Candace. Thank you, Candace. This has been such a treat. Great. What a powerful reminder that the marriage you build today is a gift, not just to your spouse, but to your children and to the generations that come after them. I hope today's conversation encouraged you right where you are. Whether you're in a hard season in your marriage, carrying patterns you're just now starting to recognize, or simply wanting to build something stronger, you're not behind and you're not alone. God meets us right in the middle of the mess and he does not waste any of it. Dave and Ashley shared so many honest and practical insights today, from the three C's to the love seek concept, to just starting with one simple shift of gratitude, I'd encourage you to check out their podcast, The Naked Marriage, and their book, Do Marriage Better. We'll link everything in the show notes. And if today's conversation stirs something in you, if you're thinking, I want this kind of community and encouragement in my real everyday life, that's exactly what MomQ was created for. We help moms grow in their faith through small groups, mentorship, and real community. So you're not just hearing truth, you're actually learning to live it out. And if you don't have a group where you are, this might be your invitation to start one. You can learn more at momq.org or through the link in our show notes. If this episode encouraged you, would you share it with a friend or another mom who needs it? And don't forget to leave a review. It helps more moms find this kind of truth and support. You're not failing your marriage, you're not failing your kids. God is working right in the middle of it all.