Rob Roskopp | Raw and Unfiltered.

Rob Roskopp was a driving force during skateboarding’s most explosive era as a skater and in business. Later he brought that same raw, instinctual approach into mountain biking, building, growing, and exiting a rider-driven brand along the way.

In this episode of the Specialized Bicycles Podcast, Ben Capron sits down with Roskopp for a direct conversation about creativity, risk, and what it means to stay authentic while building a business for riders.

His story moves from the hardcore originality of early skate culture to ripping on dirt, to bringing that same mindset into product and business. Trusting feel. Backing riders. Creating things that actually make riding better. Today, that path has led him to Specialized, where he helps advance mountain bike product and contribute to strategy.

Along the way, he reflects on identity, progression, and growing a business while staying true to what matters. The conversation closes on something simple, but timely. Less hate. More connection. More shared stoke.

This episode goes beyond origin stories, covering:

• How skate culture shaped his approach to riding, product, and business
• Why instinct and feel still matter in modern product development
• What it takes to grow without losing authenticity
• His current work advancing mountain bike product at Specialized
• Why positivity and shared experience matter more than ever

It is a conversation about edge, evolution, and building for riders, then and now.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Rob, take it from the beginning, man. You were born in Detroit. What was it like for you being a kid?

SPEAKER_02 0:30

It was very interesting in the sense that uh it was well, I mean, long time ago, so it was kind of Americana at that point. Detroit's a cold place in the winter. So the the most common uh sport was hockey, ice hockey. So I did that from four to about fourteen. And that was pretty much my life. Uh go to school, get home from school, go to hockey practice. Sometimes it was a two-hour drive because there was only so many ice rinks back in the day. So hockey in the beginning. Yeah. That was your first sport. That was my first sport. And then when I did have free time, it was you know, riding my bike, and then eventually became going around scavenging the neighborhood for uh people that threw away bikes and various things bike related, and then put together my own bikes.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

So bike was there in the in the beginning. I want to talk about I want to dive in. I didn't know you played hockey though, dude. So did you did you love hockey or was it just what everybody did?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I was very passionate about it. To be honest, that was my path. Uh if skating didn't come about, I would probably have been a professional hockey player. Because a lot of my friends, we we won a national championship of mul uh twice. We played for Little Caesars Pizza, which Michael Ilage. Pizza Pizza. Yeah, exactly. The founder, his son Tommy, uh played on our team, and actually Michael was assistant coach for a couple of years. Yeah. And he eventually Little Caesars is his massive company now. Uh he bought the Detroit Red Wings, Detroit Lions, I believe. This is pretty cool upbringing in that sense. But a lot of my friends, like our goalie, Johnny Van Breesbrock, he went on to play for the Rangers and then the Panthers. Went to the Stanley Cup, they didn't win, but he went to the cup. And I played with him for six years. And what position did you play? It went back and forth from center to left wing, because I'm left-handed. You held it the right way for that.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, exactly. Interesting, man. And then what changed that trajectory for you? What how did skating come into the picture?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

So when I was twelve, uh my dad was uh moving, he wanted to move us down to or Cincinnati area, Ohio, and he was starting a new business with his uh partner, and uh so we were moving no matter what. I had the opportunity to live with Illeges and go that path and you know continue school and then just keep playing hockey. But I was 12 at the time when we moved, so I just I wanted to be close to family still. And with that move, I picked up skating, and that was 75, 76. Got it, got it. I still played hockey ice hockey, but the level of hockey was a lot lower, let's say. It's like going from pro to am.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Got it. So Detroit, like hockey was the thing. You could have you could have stayed, but you're only 12. The family moves, and you're like, I'm 12, so I'm gonna move. You kept playing hockey, but much lower level, but then you got introduced to skating. Right. So what was that scene like? I mean, that was pretty that was shortly after like urethane wheels were developed and stuff. So that was like it wasn't surfing on the street with clay wheels, it was like Vert. Were you skating vert there?

SPEAKER_02 3:57

So at the very beginning, yeah, the Urethane wheel came in and it totally transformed the sport, and the sport was just it grew nationwide. It was huge at that point, and this was 76, 77. And we I made my own like quarter pipe ramps and whatnot. And then I mean, skating evolved extremely fast within three years. It went from you know narrow little banana boards, let's call them, to you know, pig boards, what they call them, the 10-inch wide ones, and uh the amount of progression with tricks and moves rapidly accelerated. So that was super fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

And you were there, you were a part of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Well, it was in Ohio too, right? So we were you know back in you know before social media and just media in general, um, trends were clothing trends style, everything was ten years back, especially in the Midwest compared to like California at that time.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, but still, like that wasn't far off of when that was trans that transformation was happening in California. So, what was the conduit that was bringing that to Ohio?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Well, skating took off nationally. Yeah. And there was a California Freeformer skate team. They came out and did a demo at one of the malls uh by my house. So I went and saw them, but I was already skating, but it saw that kind of just instilled in me more that wow, this could be cool, you know, I'll keep progressing and kept doing it. And then uh we got a uh skate park opened in I think it was 79 up in Columbus, Ohio. So I was 14 at that point, and then my friends would drive us up until I got my driver's license. But that park only lasted until I think it was spring of 81 or fall of 81. So that helped with the progression, and then I got to skate with a lot of pros that traveled all over the country, a lot of Santa Cruz pros. Uh that was kind of I was into the the brand at that point. I like what they were doing, it was uh edgy compared to everything else. The whole new wave punk rock scene came in, and I was really attracted to that. And uh yeah, so kind of did that, and then when the park closed, we built the half pipe in uh my backyard, and that's where I really progressed.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Because you could just session all the time. But take me back to that first skate contest you saw when then when they came. Like, do you remember what you were feeling when you saw these guys skating like that?

SPEAKER_02 6:26

The level was just you know, so far above and beyond, but it gave us it gave me the uh desire to really want to learn the moves and just I really dug what was going on and wanted to pursue it more.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I totally relate to that. I mean, like we'll get into it maybe a little bit, but like I grew up skating and like you were already doing your thing big time, and Bones Brigade was doing their thing, and like I'd go down to the Del Mar Skate Ranch. I had family in San Diego, right? And like I remember going to see contests at like Golden Gate Park, street stuff and things, and really relating to that, like, whoa, look at this world, like look at what people can do right on a skateboard. And it was like deep inside, you know. Yeah, okay. So then so then you ended up there was a park, it didn't last long, liability. Most parks came and went at that era. Oh, yeah. But then so uh a a a pipe that you were a half pipe, you were able to ride regularly.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, so we built the half pipe in my backyard at that time skating died too. It fell off a cliff. Like it was probably the biggest cliff skating, other than when it the first time it came from the 60s and died in later sixties, I think. And then the urethane wheel kind of reinvigorated it, and that brought up a whole new level because then you could do you had grip one, and that's the sports has progressed from there.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

So you you guys built a half pipe, but then like the park went away and there was this lull, but you kept skating. Yeah, so you had the bug.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Exactly. It was so underground at that point. The way we communicated across the country, and how I ended up out here was uh we did these little skate scenes, and you know, it was by mail. There's no email. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, thrasher was going. So skateboarder, you know, magazine was around up until I think it was 81. Thrasher started, I think in 80. So there was that. That's how we kind of kept connected. And you know, we didn't have videos or anything at that point. It was, you know, the best thing we had were sequences. So the rate of progression was much slower because in a sequence you can kind of see what the but you missed the intricacies of body movement and motion and how to really nail down a trick. And uh kept in touch with all these guys through these skate scenes, and I eventually moved out in 80 graduated high school and then moved out in '82. Like I think it was Christmas Day of all things. Family took me to the bus station. I'd saved up like 600 bucks, got on a Greyhound bus and came out. No way. Yeah. And you were coming out for school, or what was what brought you west? What brought you west? That's what I told my parents. I go, you know, community college and college in general was the uh the California college system was cheap back then.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

And good education. Yeah. Good value for money. That was the angle with your parents. Exactly. That was that was the story. You were working the angles even back then.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah, they bought that uh hook line sinker. And uh, but yeah, I wanted to be outward because you've got to in any sport, in order to progress and get to you gotta skate with people that are better than you and uh that stretch you. So I was skating with Caballero, Lance, just uh because at Stevie, I stay at Stevie's house for on and off for months, uh, and then I stay with another guy, Craig Ramsey and San Jose off and uh Will Will Glenn. So uh I mean we we did a lot of crazy shit back then. I mean, snowboarding. We went up that winter, that was 8283. Uh Mike Chantry, Tom Sims, Stevie, myself, uh Palmer was around. He was 14 at the time, I think. So we were the first guys to snowboard uh right before uh sugar ball. Yeah, sugar ball. So we were before they before they wasn't open, yeah. We uh snowboarded, and Tom was you know, they only had the metal uh fins. Yeah, there was no metal edges. No, and Tom's going down groomers, and we're like, how's he doing that? Because you're just sliding around. You know, you need powder back then without metal edges. Anyways, uh they opened it up like three weeks later to do a test run. Two guys went off piste, and then they closed it down. They didn't open it up until I think the late 80s, right? They were one of the last people to open up in uh Tahoe.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Right after that.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

So that's another story.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

I mean snowboarding is a whole I'm seeing this pattern though of like early in and innovating. Like, where does that where does that go? Where does that lead? I had the the Sim 1710. Yeah. Yeah, board with the you know, with the edges and stuff, and we'd cut school at Tam High and like go up for just day trips. Um yeah, Boreal was basically the only place that allowed it, you know. Right. That's amazing. They were yeah, it was first place for a long time before anybody else opened, yeah. You touched on like the punk scene, and that that was something that you were into and that energy of like expression and zines and like the different ways of expressing like what was it like what was that scene to you and what was resonant for you in that? Just the the fast driving music, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

It kind of infected you, I think, right? But here's a funny story. We're uh six months in living in Santa Cruz, roughly. Um I'm friends with the guys that was MAD at the time, which they changed their name to Blast. So above where we're or next door, next building over from where Mike and I are doing that podcast tonight. There was a one bedroom apartment, and there was five of us living in this one bedroom apartment. So it was four members of the band and myself. That lasted about six months. It was a good time though. Man, and I worked at NHS and uh we were silk screening, shipping, a variety of stuff, which was next door. So that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

That was a good time. That's amazing, yeah. Fertile ground. Okay, so just connecting and filling coloring in a little bit in case the audience doesn't know the whole thing. So you came out here on a bus. The angle to the family was good education, inexpensive. They bought off on that. You find your way out here, you're surfing on sofas for a while, doing the skate scene, yeah, early snowboard scene, and then you found your way over the hill, Santa Cruz, that whole vibe, living with early punk bands, five, five guys in a one room, yeah, apartment. And then you mentioned NHS, but like Santa Cruz, NHS, like how did you connect with that crew and what was that all about?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

So when I first came out, I was skating at uh Stevie Caballero's house and Fausto, who was ended up being uh or was Novak's partner in independent trucks. Talk about Novak for a sec for those. Rich Novak uh was my partner in Santa Cruz Bicycles. Yeah. And he was my boss for when I skated for Santa Cruz skateboards. So he was partners with Fausto, and Fausto was with uh the San Francisco crew at Stevie's house, and we're sessioning, and then he picked me up as a sponsor and he asked me who I wanted to ride for. He's like, uh I always wanted to ride for Santa Cruz. So he hooked me up with Rich. Rich gave me a job working there, and then I skate after work every day.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah, and then moved around Santa Cruz over the years and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Incredible. Yeah. Okay, so you m you met Rich Novak, and then that turned into you were working at Santa Cruz. NHS is the organ is the business that Santa Cruz was a brand of, right? And so Santa Cruz had its own whole vibe, like different than Pal Peralta Bones Brigade. I I my experience of it was it was like more raw, like closer, closer to that punk scene, a little more NORCAL, a little more edge.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah, it was interesting because yeah, definitely uh because you had Dwayne Peters, Steve Olson, Steve Alba, and uh they really adopted or got into the whole you know new wave punk rock movement, and that drew me in, like I say, when we were I was going up to the skate park in Columbus because I got to see them skate at the time, so that really invigorated me to you know even push it more and progress. Uh but that that's what that I saw that that was a tie for me to want to be affiliated or uh sponsored by Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Got it. And the I mean your style, like different rider, different skaters have different styles, right? But like when I would watch you skate, you know, I look at videos now, very aggressive, very like driving, attacking, huge grinds, and I can actually I didn't know you played hockey before, but I can see hockey come through in the way that you skate. Do you does that do you relate to that?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Do you feel that? Yeah, I think it's just as being an you know an athlete my whole life, I think there's a lot of similarities and everything kind of you draw from one or the other.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah, it's a there's a certain physicality right that that you bring to it. Yes, that's different than like a kind of a a robotic, you know, approach or like you know, a delicate dancer. You were like you were you were you skated with aggression is what I would see.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I think that's what helped me uh get sponsored by Fausta because every time I was going up the wall on the half pipe or whatever, the ramp always shook. And I got a nickname because of my size too. I was I was a larger uh guy for a skater, especially uh you know, at the time like Caballero was, you know, five five or whatever he is. Yeah, small guys and big Christian was five six, yeah. Yeah, the the smaller guys had a definite advantage.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah, totally, totally. That's amazing. Hey, so one thing like Santa Cruz and like your board in particular, like what came you know synonymous with with the board you rode for years, the screaming hand. How did that how did that come to be? And did you have any creative input into that? I did.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Uh so when we first did the the the target with the hand coming through, that was my idea, and I got that, you'll appreciate this from the uh black flag album with Henry Rollins punching the glass mirror, and I wanted you know, a hand coming out, and then it pointed to my name, and my name's all goopy. And Jim Phillips ended up uh, you know, he's an incredible artist and did such a great job. You know, he's the guy that did the screaming hand and all the the great 80s art basically. So uh we did that and then we continued that creature coming breaking through every six months or so. We changed up the graphics, so we made the series of it, and nobody had ever done that in skating. So that was very successful. Even to this day, they still do all these reissues of that. It's crazy. 40 odd years ever you know later.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Right. It's still going on. It's iconic. Yeah, yeah. Sorry I got it wrong. You weren't the hand, you were the finger. Yeah, but it yeah, there's a hand coming through. So you're not fancy. And Rob Roscott melting down, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But same same artist. I remember seeing uh a show of his boards and his art at uh Paradox, that hotel in uh in Santa Cruz. Yeah, that was a cool show. Jimmy's an incredible artist, yeah. And Junior now, his son is awesome. And that's really culture making, you know. I mean, at that point, like skating, it was this mashup of like punk, but then something that was really resonant with a wide spectrum of young people, right? And it was coming up and starting to be, you know, zines turned into thrasher, thrasher came in of age. I was a thrasher agent in middle school. I'd get a bundle of them for super cheap and I'd sell them. Yeah, but it was like it it inspired young people that then went on to do other things. Like, did you recognize that at the time?

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Yes, and no. I mean, it's just you're in it. We're in it. Didn't really pay attention to it. It was just so focused. It wasn't you were doing the thing. We're just doing it. Yeah, it came natural, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

I love that. That's when the best authentic stuff happens. But then that's but then that resonates with people in the world. They're like, that's real. This isn't like contrived, this isn't overproduced, that's real. Which uh, as we know today of social media, it's hard to figure out what's real and what isn't. So coming back. I think a lot of the audience probably doesn't remember a time that there weren't like cell phones. I know and that, and it's like my personal belief is like we're all aching for that real, that authentic most of the fact that there's like this inversion of truth, and with AI and all this artifice, like it's hard to even know what that is anymore. Yeah, but you can feel it when it's real. And so I think that when people ride bikes, you feel that, you know, and when you push yourself or you fall down and it hurts, or when you nail it right and you're like, yes, like yeah, that's real, right? We're in the business of real. Yes. Definitely love that. Okay, I want to shift a little bit. We could talk skates for skating for a long time, but I know most people tuned in are probably into bikes first and foremost. So then how did you get in? How did you get into riding bikes?

SPEAKER_02 20:06

So back to when I was playing hockey when I had free time, yeah, which wasn't a whole lot, but um in our neighborhood there was uh kind of a uh land that hadn't been developed, and there was a creek, and so there were some trails down there. And so this was probably 69 or 70. I started mapping out a course and held my own races and I'd charge all the BMX. Well, it wasn't called BMX yet. BMX wasn't coined till 74 because I know that specifically because I'm in school and there was a national scholastic paper that went around to all the uh schools in the US and it says New Sport coined BMX. And I'm like, Yeah, I've been doing this for like five years.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Was it similar? Was it like uh what were the tracks? That's cool. You were race promoted back then, dude. You've always been entrepreneurial.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Yeah, tell me about the tracks you made. There was a bunch of uh dirt and whatnot, uh from I don't know, whatever they were building around neighborhood houses, whatever it be, and they dumped these piles and stuff, so we'd run it, you know, it was like a whoop section, but you were digging basically back then. Yeah, somewhat a little bit to the extent that it was today. It was raw, it was very raw. But and then we'd put ribbons around and you know, set up an actual short track. Yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

How many kids would show up?

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Uh we'd get you know, 10, 15. Amazing. Yeah, and how regular was it?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Whenever we felt like was it based on time or was it mass start? How'd you mass start? Mass start, yeah. Free for all. Yeah. And you guys were probably all hockey players, so it may have gotten physical. Yeah. Did it get physical? Were you bumping?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah, rubbing his racing. Cutting people off.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

You know, there was no rules.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

No rules.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

It was all uh And you worked it out. Come as you are, go as you can, do what you want. Fitting within the where you fit it. Whoever finished the you know, finish. Finish line first or came across finish line first was the winner.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

That's amazing. Okay, so parallel to hockey were bikes. You did that early promotion stuff. That's incredible. So you had roots in it. You knew how to ride a bike. You were into riding a bike. I was building my own bikes. So when you were skating, did you keep riding or did you step away from riding for a while?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Um, so when we moved to Cincinnati, BMX was fully uh, you know, it was a big thing at that point. This was '75. Uh about a half hour away up in Dayton, there was a ski resort, and they held a BMX race. And I remember uh I bought a Webco Monoshock bike. I wish I had it to this day. I I can't remember what happened. I had a webco. Yeah. And I won every race on that bike. That's why. And I I just wish I would have kept it. Um but yeah, so there that went on for about a year and a half, and then BMX kind of died in 78-ish. And then it you know kind of came back in the early 80s again, like skating did. So as that died, I you know, I was already into skating, but that kind of then skating took over. Because that wound down, so then you were all in on skating. Yeah, but you had these routes. Sure. But at the same time, uh it was racing motor cross too.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

So oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

How'd that come in? So when we moved to Ohio, we had about a hundred acres. It was there's four houses on a uh bunch of farmland. We were about 15 minutes out of town, and it was a hundred acres that they didn't give a shit. Right next to we had an acre, they let us just go to town. So I made a BMX track on that, and then I made my uh trails on the motorcycle, and I'd get home from school and you know, ride for a couple hours. It was great. So then I started doing some motocross stuff and hair scrambles, yeah. So did that for a while, but then you know, like I said, skating kind of took over.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

This makes so much sense. So then so then you're let's bring it back. So then you got those routes, BMX before BMX was BMX, and then when BMX was BMX, and then also riding dirt bikes, and then fast forward, you're in Santa Cruz, skating is boom, you're focused, that whole scene. Right. You're working at NHS Santa Cruz, but then how did mountain biking come in?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

So as the skating uh you know, it was pretty busy as it the popularity of the sport took off. This was probably '84, it really started to go, and then uh back to the future of the movie came out in '85, and then just it went nuts. So just went, you know, did the ride, traveled around the world, skated some contests. I I figured out pretty early on that the contesting didn't matter as much. And this was probably my first business lesson. It's like we're at Del Mar of all places here. You've been you know you used to go there a bunch, and there's a big contest going on. But down at Mission Beach at Hamill's Surf Shop, there they did a uh midnight surf contest. And my friend set up with them uh in Santa Cruz uh a half pipe. So it was the same time as the contest. So the contest had 10,000 people watching, right? And the con uh the uh the surf contest, but the skate contest maybe had a couple hundred people and Hamill sold our boards, right? So I'm doing the demo you know, screw off a cut the contest, and one the next day uh a bunch of the guys that were in the contest heard what was going on, came down and they did the demo with us one night, and they're like, You cool this game? We're like, Yeah, of course. This is great, you know. I had a great time, blah, blah, blah. And I remember Christian looking at me, he's like, So you're not gonna do the contest you're doing this? And I go, look around. How many people are at the contest and how many people here?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

And that place sells your boards. All right. Connect the dots. Exactly. Where's the audience? Where's the interest? Where's the juice?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

And it was a hell of a lot more fun, to be honest. So I kind of changed the contest, is what brings up your status somewhat in the sport, like in a sport, but then I focused on the demos and traveling around the world and doing that.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

And kind of bringing it to the people, and then when more people when more people saw it, the sport grew, the business grew, and you're connecting. Yeah, you're connecting the whole social aspect, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Kids get so stoked when you when you're skating with them, right? It's one-on-one relationship then.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Well, it's like the when you were a kid and those guys came, the California Exactly. So it was like you had that, you did that, then you you were that guy, right? Inspiring other people.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I love that. Yeah. All right. Tell me about mountain bikes. I keep trying to bring us over to mountain biking. You keep going skating, and we could stay there all day. But tell me how you're in Santa Cruz. I was in Santa Cruz at that time. I was working at uh the bike trip. Okay. So but but how did you start riding? I remember the first time I knew you root rode mountain bikes, which was I'll just tell the story briefly. We were in San Jose. I think it was at what was that race called on Hamilton, on Mount Hamilton? Oh, yeah. Um, the something ranch. No, we met before that. We met before that. Oh, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

That was 90, I think. You told you 91. No, no, no, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

But it yeah. Well, I remember maybe I'm missing the place, but I remember meeting you, and and I was like, oh my God, it's Rob Rothkoff. I didn't know you rode. Okay. And you were on my brakes. Like I had made brakes before, and you're on them. And we had this conversation, and I was like, that was so cool because I grew up like one of those, you know, guys looking at you skating and in thrasher and doing your thing. And then I'd always loved riding bikes, and then here you are riding bikes. I thought it was such it was a cool moment for me personally. But how did you like come to riding and how'd that work?

SPEAKER_02 28:06

So uh it's probably around 85, 86. Uh one of my friends who's Michael Catelli, uh, he did uh Portola Surf Shop. He ran it. Great guy. Uh so that yeah, about 85.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

So we just he took me into Nicene, and I'm like, it just brought back all the killer memories from Nicene Marks, awesome, awesome state park with killer trails that's just expanded a ton.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah. Uh there was uh only a few trails back then. Now it's a different uh scene. It's a different scene for the better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that kind of reinvigorated the bike bug with me. And so I started doing that. And I did that occasionally, and then around I think it was around 89, I started really getting into it, did my first mountain bike race, got in a cyclocross where we used to see each other a lot. Yep. Um, did that and then uh surf city cyclocross roots. But yeah, we met at that Briones race, and that was and I had your the Marinovative breaks. Yep. The first V brakes. Yeah, gotta give Ben credit on that one.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Uh way ahead of your time there. Amazing. Okay, so you started riding pretty early, mid 80s, and you were riding Nicene, ripping probably Westridge and Big Slide and stuff like that. Punk rock, still punk rock. That's so cool. Yeah, okay, cool. And then how did so you you were with Rich, NHS, skating, you started riding. How did that come together to create the brand Santa Cruz in the mountain bike space?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Well, through the skating time, I was still working at uh Santa Cruz doing trade shows and whatnot. And then when skating really took off, I was just skating, and that was probably 85 to 90. And uh then I started coming back in and working as skating was starting to kind of have a dip. Have a dip in popularity. Yeah. And Richwood always had always been my mentor, and uh, you know, through so I was running the trade shows and doing all that, and I was going back to school at night, uh, got married in '92. Um race for salsa with Bill Nichols, Scott Davis, rest in peace.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yep, Scotty. Yeah. I remember those bikes white with the with the paint stripes. Oh, yeah, the jelly beans.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Ross Shafree the Jelly Bean, yeah, and the kit. Yeah. Good guy. Absolutely. So uh at that time, I got Novak in uh well, a few years, 90-ish, got it him in riding too. Got him even a race uh Sea Otter. I don't know if it was called Sea Otter at that point, you know, early 90s. But anyways, uh he threw out what do you think about you know doing Santa Cruz bikes? And he's because I was trying to figure out what I was gonna do. I wasn't super excited about staying with skating because of the state of where it was going. I mean, I did everything verse street, pipes, everything. You were ready for something else. I was ready for something else.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

And uh but not quite sure what it was yet. Had ever had a skate career that lasted like it has t today. So I was looking ahead to what could what could I do? And so I started doing the research and uh close friend Mike Marquez, uh, him and I'm put it all together and got our first uh and Tom uh Morris, he designed the the first bike, the Tasman, and we got it, I think a first 100 made. And at that time when they had just come in, I'd set up this 1100-foot warehouse in the cannery where Santa Cruz bikes was found. And Bontrager was there too. Yeah, Keith was there and and Hans was there, and then Hans saw what we were doing, and he was kind of tired of waiting for Keith to put a full suspension bike out there because we knew that's where SWAT was gonna go. So he came and joined us at that time, and then we just hit the road running and slowly built up. Yeah. Sent demo bikes all to dealers that we wanted to work with, let him ride for a couple weeks, and then and that's how we grew the company.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I remember at those surf city Feclacross races, like particularly Scotty, like he could he could jump all the barriers, and everyone's riding coming out of like more traditional cross, yes, and like you know, shouldering and running the bikes. He would ride the whole damn course. He'd jump the doubles and like with style on his long hair going behind, long red hair going behind, and just a little whip over the style for today is like way ahead of its time. And I think you know, that just that vibe, like you could feel the energy, kind of skate energy, early adopter, full suspension, and also like with a fresh angle, like you could ride full suspension everywhere and better, right? And so, like you guys were all in. It wasn't like, yeah, we'll put our toe in an entrenched brand. You were like, no, this is the way. Exactly. Conviction. Yeah, and so then what happened? You built a small, you did a small batch, and then the response was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

We got you know, sold that out, did another couple hundred actually in Santa Cruz because the first guys that made the first 100 uh was Control Tech up in Washington, but that didn't work out for the next batch, so we did it another couple hundred in town, and then we've uh moved up to uh anodizing ink.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

That's where specialized was making the MQ bikes, and yeah, what a cowboy that guy was. What was his name? Anno Inc. Uh was his name? Mike. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, Mike. Yeah. Well, again, another another place where we came together because at that point, right, I was the product manager for you know, a little bit later from the days when you started, but I was the product manager for all the performance mountain bikes here. Right. And so working with that guy and making those bikes and then yeah, the max backbone, the split extrusion, FSRs, and that stuff we did up there at Annalink. Yeah. Funny, dude. Special alloy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very special. Right. 6069. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. And then, you know, when you think about Santa Cruz, like I'll just ask this like what stands out the most to you and what that project was in your life? Like, there's a lot of things. I I'm not sure. What was most significant? High points. Like, was it downhill racing with syndicate?

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Was it Yeah, that was always special, but I think Yeah, I'd say the Syndicate and you know, seeing the success of a certain model launch and people adopting it. So bringing some creating the product and and seeing it become successful.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Say more on that then. Like, how did that process work? Like when you would identify a new opportunity, where did that come from? What were you seeing in the way people were riding or the market? And then how would you do that? Like, what was the mindset and the process? I think it was just what pick a model.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

So the bullet is probably a good one. First one. So six-inch travel bike that was considered downhill at that time, and we wanted to make that come across as the it could have been considered a free ride bike, a downhill bike, and duro wasn't even around at that point. So it was just it was more of a bike we wanted to create personally, and that's where most of the bikes came from, what we personally wanted to ride. Again, authentic. Yeah, our own self-interest.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah. I mean, that sounds self-indulgent, but when you're on, you know, when you're on tip of the spear stuff, and then the gear prevents you from doing what you want to do, there's the need. It's very immediate. Then you make the bike that satisfies the need, you bring it to the world. Right. But did you ever have doubt, like on bullet, did you think, oh, people are gonna take this, or from a commercial standpoint, where you're like, I'm not sure. Are we is it is it big, is it small?

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Like, I think you might feel that on anything that's new at the time. That's just you know, your little paranoia. I think paranoia is a good thing in business. If you're not paranoid, uh probably not a good business person.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

For sure. And it's hard to know when something doesn't exist yet, how's it gonna be received? Exactly. But I think at Santa Cruz and you know, having been on the other side, like we were it's such it's so surreal to have this conversation because it's so surreal because you guys came into the market, we were kind of the incumbents, right? You took a big bite out of the market, we're right across the hill from each other, and it's like we're making these mountain bikes, and you're doing moves like that with kind of a skate vibe, a very like clear identity, and really well-earned loyalty from riders who appreciated that. So it's a trip to be here, but it is yeah, but I think you brought those like bullet and other products you brought to market with a lot of conviction. And people followed that, and that had a huge formative impact on the sport of mountain biking, outsized impact for the size of business that you were, I think.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yes, people I think uh assume we were much bigger than we were, but big time.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

And the smallness is beautiful because you don't have a lot of people weighing in. Is it this, is it that? And even like here still today, the number of people that are involved is quite small and the process is quite similar. Like, how are we riding? What's a way to advance it?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Yeah, and I think part of that is where the Seneca came in because as the company was growing, we didn't have the money to you know bring in the best riders. And when we got to that point where we could fund certain teams, we did, but it was still like Lunatics. We were the sponsor for Lunatics when that first came on, and that was great. That kind of gave me confidence really to go all in when which I did with a syndicate, and it was like I'd met PD, I think four or five years before, and then I I flew over to uh World Champs in 05. Well, I should back up. Uh we started a syndicate with uh Rennie, uh Kurt Bores, yeah, Cam Zink, Mark Hendershot was our 24-hour marathon. So the syndicate originally was we had uh various people in their disciplines, right? So it was this whole that's kind of what the syndicate philosophy was. It was consortium of syndicate, yeah. Yeah. And then when I went after P to bring him on board, I wanted to scale it and focus it more on downhill because I s it was the time, I think, because downhill was kind of at a lull, so to speak, and it was more uh advantageous for or affordable, I should say, in s in some areas. But so I went after the best guys because I wanted to go all in, and that paid off, I think. And that's what really created the brand image, even more so, or had a big effect on the overall brand image.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Absolutely, and and a lot of people took notice and and resonated with that. And again, it was it was counterculture. You guys were showing up in a very aggressive way. Petey is such a huge personality. Oh, big time. Celebrating, you know, when it wasn't racing, it was celebrating sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Yeah, back in the day, you could go out and uh have a big night and still win a World Cup. But uh that those days are gone, unfortunately. For good and bad reasons.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Uh a lot of great memories. But again, you know, hitting kind of a an authentic like nerve and saying, Here's who we are, we're showing up in this way, unapologetic, and then nailing it as well with results. Yeah, people like that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah, so yeah, Steve and Greg and then Josh, and that trio really I think defined the syndicate for years. Yeah, and I think that added to the brand image uh big time.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

For sure. And again, had a cultural impact, you know, had it had an impact on culture, sure, shifted the way people thought and felt. Yeah. All right, I want to shift a little bit because we haven't really talked about how you ended up being here, but I want to tell me the story of meeting specialized founder Mike Siniard. So I met Mike years back.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

It was one of the World Cups or World Champs, I think. Maybe Switzerland. I talked to him on the phone. Actually, he reached out to me one time when we were uh doing VPP. And uh it was 2004, I think. And at that time uh I think Giant was making bike for us. And they came to us and wanted to uh they wanted to do a partnership, so to speak, right? Collaboration, some kind. Yeah, collaboration, thank you. So uh we told them no. And I Mike called me just out of blue, which I thought was pretty cool. Because you know, I'm super competitive because from four years old, right? So specialized in Santa Cruz, we're always, you know. I'm a competitor. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh I really appreciated that. And we know we told uh giant the pound sand basically. So they did and they made it uh we said we'll look the other way if you uh make the links rotate in the same direction because our counter-rotating link was the the gist of our patent, our patent. Anyway, so uh yeah, and then I saw them at Worlds, I think it was in Switzerland a few, you know, years later, and then uh through the years, occasional phone call and okay, business things.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

You had some mutual respect, yes, competitors, but some mutual respect, touching base here to there. Right. But then you guys lived across the street from each other in Capitola, right? That's the part I want to I want to hear about because I heard about it from another side, but I haven't ever heard you tell the story. So so the so just to kind of fast forward so you don't need to cover ground for the audience, the Santa Cruz kept cruising and growing, and then eventually you sold you sold that business to another entity.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah, so we built it up and uh it after 08, 08 was rough time. So we had to let go of people, it was just you know, the world took a dump for the most part. Um but from then on to when we sold, it was just a rocket ride. And then uh there's other things I wanted to do uh before I couldn't uh do them physically and uh sold a company. I worked I stayed there till 22, so I stayed there eight years after. And then uh I think it was twenty-two or twenty-three when I first moved to Santa Cruz. I lived with Keith Meek. Uh, I rented a room from his mom on Depot Hill, and that neighborhood up there above Capitola, I think it's still the best neighborhood in all of Santa Cruz area. Anyways, I was looking for a a house uh to purchase for a rental uh anyway, so it turned out that house that we bought was across the street from Mike. And uh anyway, so uh didn't see each other for a while, and I was remodeling my other house and uh staying there, and I was getting the mail or taking. Out the garbage one morning and I saw Mike and I'm like, hey, what's going on? And uh we started talking. I told him, Yeah, things aren't I'm probably uh leaving Santa Cruz here pretty quick. We should talk. And then we started riding together, really you know, got along well because uh I think we're pretty similar in a lot of ways. So I took it from there, and then maybe a year and a half later, uh I joined the advisory board here and we're here now, and I'm really enjoying it. I really I I you know I always want to be part of something that is solid, it's cutting edge and I think it really has the ability to kick ass. And that's what that's what makes it really fun for me.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

So you've landed up here at specialized in twists and turns in different ways. And for people who are only listening and not seeing the video, Rob's pointing to to a levo. And you know, so let's talk a little bit about electric mountain bikes. Like you, that's kind of there's a lot of juice there, there's a lot of zeitgeist there, a lot of innovation and development there. I know it's what you're riding pretty much exclusively now. So, like, what do you see and what's happening with like Levo's and electric mountain bikes and how that's kind of a new technology that's advancing a sport, you know, that you love? Are you do you see it that way? Like it's a new technology, like suspension was a new technology and mountain bikes that made a big difference. Do you see it kind of that way?

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Definitely, yeah. Yeah, but I think the biggest benefit of e-bike brings is the ability to not suffer as much or suffer as much as you want still, but you know, time is short, and to be able to get out on a ride in 45 minutes that normally take you an hour and a half is a pretty cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

So anyway, it's uh it it makes a long ride possible and a short ride window of time, and you can do tons of laps, which session.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

I like going downhill, I like climbing too. I just like it all, but you know, to be able to session, it's kind of comes back to skating in that way. You're skating, you know, the same thing, doing all these other tricks, but with bikes, it you get that feeling for a lot longer period of time, and that's what really invigorates me to want to get out on an e-bike, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

It really advances skills too. Oh, totally. Instead of climbing for an hour and you're descending for exactly five, ten minutes, yeah, you're getting three or four of those drops in the same amount of time. You know, so more fun. You can work out as hard as you want. Yeah. Also, like it's like a big warm hug to all kinds of people who didn't want to suffer so hard or didn't have the physical capability to ride up that one hour climb. So it's like it's a huge opener of the sport to people.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah, it can bring in a lot of new people into the sport, right? That were put off by, oh, you know, I need to be super fit to climb up this mountain. Well now you don't.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Exactly. Yeah. So how would you describe for the people listening your role as specialized?

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Um, I'm doing a uh a lot of uh product input, which I've always favored probably the most and was really into. Uh and then hopefully uh putting in you know good ideas and giving input to where we need to go or what direction to move into.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

So my primarily product and product development. Yeah. I I mean that's what I observe, and like you know, seeing the impact that you have, riding prototypes, actually riding the prototypes, yeah, and having the ability to articulate with all your background, like what's working, what's not, how do we need to tune this? Exactly. You know, I remember when Genie, prior to Genie technology coming out, you wrote, you're like, holy, and then you're like, we got to bring this other places too. Right. So you see my observation of you, you've got the ability as a rider to feel what works and what doesn't. You've got the experience, you know, yeah to bring to bear to that, and then also the ability to look forward and see what what other riders are gonna appreciate before it's present. Hopefully. No, I mean you're tracked. I'm an old design. You anyone who has uh ridden with you, Rob, knows that you ride. I'm still an old man though. Yeah, but you send it, dude.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah, try. You send it. I I tend to hurt myself more these days, it seems like trees falling down on blind corners when you're going fast. Break a few ribs here and there.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Bodies heal. Um, what what inspires you most about the work that you're doing on product development? Like what what fires you up? What gets you excited?

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Making the ride better. Because you know, today's bikes are pretty impressive. I don't think, in fact, I'm 100% positive, most people can't ride today's bikes to what they're capable of, not even close.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Right. Yeah. I remember we just the other day we were talking with our friend uh Robin Schmidt, and he was like the capability of the technology is high, right? And the ability of most riders to utilize it all is not there, you know. So there's an opportunity to level that up, yeah. Um, but also like the technology is pretty on fire.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Right. But and the biggest benefit is it makes it safer for everybody else to ride, especially new people coming into the sport. So you can get into trouble, but it gets you out of trouble too. Yeah. I remember the we were testing one time uh with uh Greg Minar, and we get to the bottom and he comes out like what do you think? You know, he's like, I can't ride the bike to what it's capable of. Whoa, and to hear that from Minar. Interesting. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But I think that goes today with you know how good the bikes actually are and what they're capable of.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

And what does it mean to you like to be a part of uh a place that's bringing that to the world? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I I think just you know the benefits of the technology and what we're doing here enabling the the rider to get the most benefit, most bang for the buck.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

In a safe, you know, safer way. You're still, you know, it's still rider-era when you hit a tree or whatever it may be. But uh it's definitely and it also enables you to go faster, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

And if you were to distill down, like what does bang mean? Like the benefit, the like the heart of the art joke of riding a mountain bike. What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Having the tech well, the technologies, the suspension kinematics, just the ability to for the bike to be more of an extension of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Kind of engineered to disappear.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Right. It be c you become one. We're getting pretty pretty mystical here, but I think that that's true. And I think me my observation is throughout the story that you've told us about your path, like there's been a thread. You may not see it this way, I see it this way, of authenticity, meaning like whether it's skating or those early pre-BMX PMX or you know, riding mountain bikes, it's an experience that you can that a human being can have, and you can put any word you want around it. You could say it's stoke or you could say it's whatever, but it's like there's no way to have that except to do that. And when everything's working right on a bicycle and it's like it disappears, that flow state, like that's the kind of thing to get hooked on.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Yeah, it's that zen moment, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Yeah, and it draws you forward. Like once you taste that, you want more of that, this intrinsic motivation. And then you're riding more in your body and your mind and your relationships with friends that you're riding with, everything goes deeper because of it. To me, that's the juice.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Yeah, totally, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yeah, I love it, man. All right, so what would you say to riders listening? And maybe a lot of these riders have come to riding recently, like mountain bikes or electric mountain bikes have brought a lot of people into it. Sure. What would your advice be to these new, newer riders riding off-road, like let's say on Olivo?

SPEAKER_02 53:08

If you haven't experienced mountain biking, I in I don't know if I'd take a clinic. There needs to be more of that, probably. I've got a friend in Italy who's doing a lot of that right now, and uh I think it it benefits everyone that's new to the sport to kind of get some help, you know, take a clinic from someone that's got a lot of experience and kind of help you with the do's and don'ts. Because uh I think some people are really turned off uh because they think it's so dangerous. But to that point, that's why I think it's it would benefit people to take clinic, riding clinic. Awesome. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

And I mean if they go to a specialized retailer or they go to one of our you know experience centers, you can get on a bike, you can try it out, and if you ask, you can get you know some insights there. But going deeper with a clinic can help you level up your skills much more rapidly. It's so interesting that like in in cycling you don't see that, but like in skiing or snowboarding, it's expensive. Everywhere. Yeah, I mean, very few people like rent aboard and don't take a lesson. Some do, right? But like the rate you can level up if you get some expertise. And maybe it's not a formal clinic, maybe it's someone you know who rides and just go, hey man, take me out, show me the do's and don'ts. Right. Because with some very simple fundamentals, you can be riding very safely and enjoying the trail so much more, so much faster.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Right. Because it's all about having a great time and having fun, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:38

I'm gonna ask you one and I don't know what you're gonna say, so there's a little bit of risk. Okay. Livo four or levo R. Evo. Oh can we say that now? Yeah, we can say that. We're we're filming that we're recording this before the Livo 4 Evo comes to market, so it's a little bit risky, but this is gonna come to market after. So Livo 4. I'm just gonna say for the audience, Livo 4, you wrote it, you loved it, you're like, this is amazing. Yeah, Livo R, once you wrap your brain around it, you're like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah. And now Livo Evo, this is amazing. Right. But talk to me about Livo 4 Evo. What do you like about it?

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Uh, just for the type of writing I like to do, and I call it uh added insurance, a little more travel, a little more forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Uh so get out of trouble, get out of jail pretty much. Yeah, you go in some hot or you come up short on a jump, right? You got a little more travel.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Well, it's it's got a damn motor on it. So for me, more is better in that sense, travel-wise, and it allows me to ride one bike and not have to have a couple different bikes for what I particularly like to, you know, what I like to ride. So I think that's the bike for me. The R, I totally get it. I think that is really once people try it, it clicks to your point. And I think it'll bring a lot of people that are uh put off by you know long travel and don't necessarily need it. Maybe they're newer to the sport or maybe they have a more of an XE background.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like we've seen this movie before of segmentation, like mountain bikes actually be one kind of mountain bike, and then all of a sudden there was this segmentation, particularly with full suspension. Yeah, you had cross country, you had kind of trail bikes, and you had enduro, free ride, downhill. It starts to segment out in the beginning. It's kind of confusing for people, sure. But like now, Levo is a family of bikes, Livo R, light, nimble, like a rally car, you know, and then you got levo four kind of right there, trail bike, very versatile. You can take it a lot of different ways. And then Levo Evo, if you want to send it or have that insurance policy, you level up, like you know, basically putting the E in Enduro. Put an electric, electric motor on an Enduro bike. So it's actually not that complicated, and it's something we've seen before, but helping people understand that's going to be important. And also, I'll just mention like on Levo 4, you can for it's the same chassis as Livo 4 Evo. That's why they're both Levo 4s. So same chassis, you can fork that up to 180 millimeters. We're selling in the aftermarket the link. You could run any longer stroke shock, longer eye-to-eye shock with the proper you know, leverage rate, wheel rate, everything. And you can just level it up. So if you've got a levo four, we got you covered. You can fork it up, you can make a couple changes on the link and shock, and you basically have your own levo four Evo. So, you know, there's yeah, you don't have to get a whole new bike. You don't have to get a whole new bike, right? You know, and plenty of people are are gonna run that option because they want to level up, or sometimes they ride somewhere, they're going somewhere that's more sandy to a park or whatever. Exactly. Whatever it might be. You know what I mean? All right. Any parting words, Rob, that you want to share with the audience, man?

SPEAKER_02 57:56

It's just there doesn't need to be as much hate. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

I love that. Why? There's so much, there's so much one thing that feels really important is particularly now when there's so much divisiveness in the world, yeah, let's all look to what's the same in us and double down on that. Exactly. And and in just in this small corner of humanity that is mountain biking, look, we're all in this. Like we all love getting out there and riding our bike on the dirt, and we know what that feeling is. Let's double down on that. Let's support that stoke, right? Like, let's be positive, let's not be haters. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Like, we need that. Doesn't benefit anybody. It's a powerful message, man. I appreciate that. All right. Well, then that wraps it up for today. You know, thanks so much for listening. If you're listening on a podcast and you want to see it on video, you can find us on YouTube. If you're checking it out on YouTube and you want to listen when you're riding or driving, you can find us anywhere you get podcasts. Give us a like, give us a follow, please subscribe, share it with a friend. And until next time, which I hope you definitely tune into. Have fun out there. Ride your bike, be positive, keep the rubber side down. Thanks for listening.