Lael Wilcox | Around the World, Faster Than Anyone

Lael Wilcox is one of the greatest ultra-endurance cyclists ever. She holds the women’s record for the fastest ride around the world, has set records on the Tour Divide, Trans Am, Baja Divide, and so much more.  She's also helped reshape what is possible in bikepacking, especially for women.

This episode was recorded days before Lael's attempt to go around the world a second time, faster than anyone.

In this episode, host Ben Capron sits down with Lael to talk about the spirit behind her attempt. Not just the miles, logistics, equipment, or record, but the mindset that lets someone take on a challenge this big and still keep it joyful.

Lael shares how ultra-endurance cycling has changed as more women enter the sport and raise the level of competition. She talks about riding to the Tour Divide from Alaska, getting stuck in peanut butter mud, working through dark moments, and learning that not all suffering is useful.

Her approach is simple and powerful: if you are doing your best, let it go. If you want to quit, you can always quit later.

They also get into her 2024 around-the-world ride, why she turned it into a rolling invitation for people to join. This time the route is faster, the pace is higher, the support crew is bigger, and the goal is clear: ride around the world faster than anyone ever has.

Along the way, Lael and Ben talk about comfort as performance, why sleep and fueling make you faster, the role of the Specialized Roubaix in her around-the-world setup, and why women can compete at the highest level in ultra-distance cycling.

They also discuss GRIT, the girls’ cycling mentorship program Lael started to help young riders build confidence, adventure, and independence through bikes.

This episode covers:

Why Lael is going back around the world to chase the overall record

How her 2024 ride became a rolling party with everyone invited

Why ultra-endurance is changing as more women enter the sport

What it means to compete without losing joy

Why suffering is not the point

How Lael works through dark moments on the bike

The meaning behind “you can always quit later”

Why comfort is performance in ultra-distance riding

How sleep, fueling, and recovery can make riders faster

Why Roubaix was the right bike for riding around the world

How Lael thinks about equipment, efficiency, and durability

Why women can compete at the highest level in ultra-distance cycling

How GRIT helps young girls build confidence through bikes

Why bikes can expand what people believe is possible

Guest:

Lael Wilcox

Follow Lael: Instagram - @laelwilcox

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, I used to also say the single was like, you can always quit later.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

The beauty about later is it's never now.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

There are valid reasons to quit. First of all, you're not having fun, definitely shouldn't do it. Second of all, you're injuring yourself, definitely shouldn't do it. Third, like something else is happening in your life that you should not be away from. You know, those are all great reasons to quit. But then I think the problem is sometimes, you know, people are in a bad situation, then they quit, then they regret it. So then I'm just staving off future regrets.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Layle, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Layle is maybe the predeminent ultra-endurance cyclist in the world. From Continental Divide record that you set to around the world recently, that record, and now embarking on trying to do that, not only setting the women's record, but outright men's and women's. The list is so long. But I want to get into some other stuff too, around you know, how you approach challenges in your life and the spirit that you bring to what you do. But my very first question to you is what would you most want to talk about during this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

I've been at this for I guess almost 20 years. I used to go to these start lines and I'd be the only woman, or we'd be two out of 200, and now it's changing. And uh that might be the most exciting piece of it is that I go there and there are new people. Used to be riding around anywhere in the world. If I saw someone with a bag on their bike, I probably knew them in any country because there was nobody was doing it, you know, not like that. And then uh people have been bike touring forever with panniers and doing these trips around the world for 10 plus years, and but you know, it was like this kind of different style of you know, riding trails or making these adventurous routes, and so much technology grew with that. You know, now we have GPS devices where we can share routes and we can go everywhere and and we're all connected with social media, and it's awesome. But I'm also seeing that's translated into people doing it, not only racing, traveling, inviting their community to do it, but forming smaller groups and encouraging each other. And uh, you know, I just got back from track 560, I think maybe three weeks ago, and um it was so cool. You know, I met so many people that I'd never met in person, and I was part of this women's field where it was like, you know, this race, there were maybe 15 kind of fighting for it, and uh we've never had that before for a race that's 350 miles with 30,000 feet of climbing, and you know, the top four who where I was fourth, we all finished faster than last year's winner. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Unbelievable, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And I'm like, I mean, I'm like 39 and the winner's 28, and I'm like, that's badass. And then she sends me a message after the race and she's like, I just wanted to thank you so much for so being so authentically you. I'm engaged to a woman, and I just hope that we can share this with others, you know. And I'd never met her, and I got to meet her during the ride, you know, and we're like climbing up in the Pyrenees, and I was like, This is so cool. I've been like kind of beating this drum and wanting this to happen, and now it's here, you know, and I love it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I love that so much. I asked you what you want to talk about, and what you went right to was how inspiring it is to you, it sounds like that there's so many more people and so many more women riding and doing these adventures on their bike through their body, in space, in nature, and the camaraderie, and these are the things that you really went to. Is that are those important elements for you in life?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Of course. Yeah, I mean, I think like I do a lot of this solo and I do these big rides, and sometimes they're time trials, and sometimes they're races, but I don't see people for days. But I think like the spirits there where I I've always wanted other people to feel like they could do this kind of thing. And I've like tried to share, you know, how like be vulnerable with my limitations and the struggles I've had, but also like that despite that, we can keep trying. And then to see like so many people show up, and it's not even just for these races. I also like I host these women's rallies, and it's like 50, 60 women from around the world set out to ride for a week, a route that's like 400 500 miles, mixed terrain, it's not a race, just spend that week on this adventure with like a community to see if this would change like the culture I saw.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

And change their lives as well. Like addressing addressing challenges that you're not quite sure if you can do.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And then whoa.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

When they do show up, it's real people with like these crazy life stories where it's like, you know, this time we had a woman who's she said, This is like my gift to myself for my 50th birthday. She has four kids, she raised them solo, and now like the youngest one's graduating high school, and so now she can she she bought a specialized hybrid and she wrote it 500 miles in Sardinia. Amazing. I mean, that's cool. You know, I'm like, that's amazing. They're all riding together, right? You know, and sharing these stories, camping together or whatever, finding food. And uh I mean, to me, that like brings life back into the the sport of it. Cause I'm like, oh, I know my style and I like it, but that's not the only way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah. Well, human beings relating to each other, even if they're at different places, but finding the commonality is really what we need. You know, I think the separateness is what creates fear, and out of fear comes a lot of things that are counterproductive. So the antidote to that is to get out, to connect, to open up, to take a chance, out of the comfort zone, and be in these beautiful places, you know, be in nature.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Exactly, kind of connect to nature.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

And when do we have problems? When we isolate from nature.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, I agree with well for me a hundred percent. For me too. You know, I can't I I I'm not I'm not as happy. I was on this track in school. I went to college, I was pre-med, and then the next step I thought of French as well, right? French, yeah, chemistry in French. And then uh I thought I'd go to medical school, and then I went on a bike trip, and then you kept going on that trip for like seven years, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

You just kept riding adventure, riding.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, exactly. And then I, you know, my mom would be like, wondering. Where'd you go?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Like all kinds of countries, right? You went Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So I started, it was like first trip was down the east coast, and then it kind of went from road to next year I went down, drode down into Mexico, went down into Baja, and then um started going over to Europe and realized wow, way more roads and trails. In Europe more routes.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

In Europe, yeah, old ones.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Totally, because I'm from Alaska, we don't have that. Yeah, I mean, so it's like before I the year I started racing, I did I was doing a trip and it was three months in Europe, three months in the Middle East, and three months in South Africa, and Namibia and Lesotho. Incredible, and then from there went to um Cairo. Yeah, it's a crazy place to start a bike ride. I believe 20 million people and no traffic lights. None.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Nobody ever worked it out. Somehow they work it out.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

And everybody, all kinds of vehicles camel, donkeys, cars, motos, bikes with people with Karen stuff on their heads.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

But anyway, yeah, rode up from there into Israel and then spent like a couple months in Israel and then and then entered a bike packing race because I was like riding this route called the Holy Land Challenge, and then realized I'd be in the country when the race was happening, and I was like, oh, try it out.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

And how'd that first race go?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Oh, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

You loved it.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

What did you love about it?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

The thing I was scared about was navigation. And so then I was like, okay, I think I can figure this out with GPS, some signs, some familiarity with the place. Um, but if I like this, then I'm gonna go back to Alaska and ride down through Canada to Banff and then race at Twitfide.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

So you rode from your house in Alaska about 2,000 miles or something, right? To Banff, and then did Continental Divide. And was that 2015? Is that when and you set the record? Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Even with asthma, with like all kind of challenges, but riding to the race. I mean, I know people who race and they do the quote unquote Russian training. You ride to the race, you do the race, you ride home. That's that's what I what I was racing, that's what people would call it. Yeah, the real hard, you know, riders that it was messing with.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I've never heard that before.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

You haven't? Okay, but then I heard you did that, but it was like 2,000 miles on the front side. It's like, whoa. But that made sense to me because first of all, just tell us why, just stop there for a second. Why did that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 8:50

It made sense because I had been riding this like pretty junk bike. I go back to Leska, I I buy myself my first nice bike, which at the time was a specialized uh stump jumper, hardtail. Remember what those? Yes, uh, with a rigid fork. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna set this bike up for the race. I'm gonna ride down there in that way. I like know my equipment, I know exactly what I need, it's training, I'm used to being out there, I'm used to the position.

unknown 9:18

True.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

So I'm and you weren't in a rush, so you had your time to work it out. I'm gonna work out the kids.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

A hundred miles a day, and it'll take me, you know, three weeks. And then I ended up doing it in 19 days instead. And I was like, it was simple because Alaska, Canada, for me it was simple because um you can camp anywhere. But I mean, I was I was actually learning a lot. It was kind of intense because I was like, I I don't think I'd ever been alone so much. The only time I talked to people is if I was buying food like in a gas station, and there were only gas stations like every 150 miles.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

But I learned I was like, it clicked one day, I was like stopped somewhere, I had to write a story, and then I lost a bunch of time doing that, and I was like, well, I gotta make up the time. And then I realized, oh, I'll just eat on the bike. I won't stop to eat anymore. And then that's what I did for the race too.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So you learn things outside of the context of the race by doing that ride roughly a hundred miles a day. You worked out your gear, how you're gonna sleep, you worked out some nutrition, you learned how to eat while you were riding.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

You've been riding by yourself and the exposure.

unknown 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

This is the craziest part though. So I did that first run, the group starts in June. Yeah, and I uh like bested the previous record by two days. Took it from 19 to 17. But during that ride, I had this horrible breathing problem. And uh day five, I went to the hospital. The doctor was like, Well, when's the race start again? And I was like, it doesn't stop. Yeah, it doesn't stop. The clock is going to be a little bit more. It never stops, you know. No, it doesn't stop. But he was giving me an x-ray to see if I had um what's it when your lungs are full of fluid, but I didn't. So then he was like, Well, you know, your lungs are really cloudy, uh, but I'm gonna give you a prescription for antibiotics and albuterol. And then I got back out there, rode till three in the morning. I was so pumped up, riding over lava mountain, and yeah, and then the next day I was kind of sick again, and then after that it was okay. But I was like, Okay, I took the first week of the race like in really bad condition. So then when I finished, I couldn't stop thinking about that. And I was like, if I hadn't gotten sick, I would have gone so much faster.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

And then was that hard for you to know that?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Well, three weeks later I went and rode the whole thing again.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Three weeks later, you went back. And how much how fast did you go?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Day and a half faster.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

By myself.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Right. And you just did that for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yes, but it was a weird experience because even in a race where everyone's spread out by days, at least you kind of know they're out there when nobody else is out there and the conditions are bad.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And you're out there in some of those.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

It's just you.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

You know, and I was like, I got like stuck in some bad peanut butter mud for 12 hours. I was so bummed out, and I really had a hard time. I didn't stop, but I was like, my, you know, my heart wasn't in it. And then I was like, well, get it together.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

But you kept pushing on. Peanut butter mud, having a hard time. Yeah, your morale was low.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Can you remember like what was going through your mind and and how you how did you work through it? Like one of the things I want to explore with you is I think a lot of us can't relate to riding around the world or doing continental divide, but we do all know what it is to face challenges and have like things happening where we're going, is this doable or not? Right. You know, and it might be a physical thing, it might be an emotional thing, it might be a major life change. But for you, you know, for you, when you like in that moment, that one specific moment, what was going on in your mind and how did you find a way through?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Well, in that moment, I was like, what if I don't go faster than I already did two months ago or a month ago? You know, and I was like, I think that was kind of a scary thought because I had worked so hard to get to that point. I'm gonna keep going, but what if I get stuck again? You know, you're in this like inner turmoil. And then uh I think a couple days later I was just like, I got back in it. I got back in it, I just sat with it. I think I just was like, okay, I'm here. This is the other piece of it, is um I've always had this kind of thing about, you know, with this sport, specifically ultra endurance people really glamorize suffering. And I've always had this thought of like, this is not suffering.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I feel that, like I feel that in your voice. And even just then when your energy changed, go on that riff for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, this is not suffering. Like, we are making these choices. Also, we're celebrating that we can do hard things. You know, it's like suffering is something that happens to you that you have no control over. And there's real suffering in the world where people can't do anything about their state, whether it's illness, whether it's something that happened to their family, or you know, somebody who has authority over them. That's real suffering. My thing is I'm choosing to do bike ride. Yeah. At any time I can make the choice of like, I'm not doing this. Because I mean, and why would I do it if it's not fun? You know, I mean, even if it's hard, it can still be fun. So then I think I think when I got into the sport, I would kind of go into this crazy spiral where I'd be like, I'm not good at this. I'm not fast enough. I'm not doing well enough. Why did I think I could do this?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

You know, and then I'll all the stuff in our mind.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. Yeah. And then it would just kind of drag me down, like this anchor. And then, and then I built up kind of these tools where I'm like, okay, are you doing the best you can right now? If the answer is yes, let it go.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

I want to just save savor that for a minute because the wisdom is so deep, you know. It's like the Buddha said, you know, there's the second arrow. So if you get hit by an arrow, that hurts. That's gonna suffer. Things happen in life. But the second arrow and the third and the fourth and the fifth and the one thousand are self-inflicted. Totally. When we relive it in our mind and we go over it and over, and woe is me, and all these things, and that's optional.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yes, and it's super unhealthy.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

It's un yeah, well, it's the majority, it's the majority of the suffering that we experience as humans is self-inflicted. But you you said it, and it seems like you live it in such an authentic way, like you become aware. Oh, oh yeah, okay, peanut butter mud, whatever. Am I gonna beat my other time? And then you at a certain point, like even in in talking about it, your energy shifted. And it's like, wait a minute, this is a celebration. Is it like that for you? Do you remember? Like, if you're having dark, heavy thoughts, maybe repetitive, then do you remember? Like, what's that like?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I use different things where I'm like, am I doing my best? Yes. Or if you're in like a lot of pain, because I used to, and actually now the more I've done it, the less pain I experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Physical pain.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Physical pain. Or the first time I raced across the US, it was like making friends with my saddle every day because I wasn't used to road riding. I'd never done it. And I was like, you know, I mean, here's the thing. I think sometimes too, I get so fired up about things and so excited that I'm like, make these audacious goals. And then I so some of these I'd get out there three days in, I'd be like, what was I thinking? And then I'm like, Well, at some point you thought this was a good idea, you better stick it out.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Go all in.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Oh, yeah. But you know, that was really that was like 10 years ago, and now I think maybe I'm more like adjusted to it. Um, so the pain isn't quite there. But I used to kind of have to do that. Do you think that that's because your body has adapted?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So physically, you you've adapted in such a way that you don't experience as much physical pain.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Right. Okay. Because everything becomes normal.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yeah. Do you do anything like yoga or anything? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

I try to do it. Well, when I'm home, yeah, I try to do yoga every day.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Great.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

I also started lifting weights. I was like, why didn't I think of this before?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Of course it's gonna help.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

You know, even just like hanging on a pull-up bar can help.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Huge.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Because I just didn't do anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

You know, I was just only just on the bike, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

And your weight is supported and your legs get real strong and your lungs and your heart get real strong, but some of the other stuff can get real weak.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

I'm glad you're bringing that up. That's an important one for people to listen to. You know, most of our audience rides a lot. Well, so it's like it's good to be well-rounded.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah. I mean, relative to the time you spend on the bike, it's nothing. I often ride 35 to 40 hours a week, you know. I mean, like this is uh peanuts.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Well, that's great. I mean, I think that that's there's so much wisdom there for people to take in from your perspective around remembering that a lot of the suffering is is optional. Like there's just you know, because that can apply to everything. And you said sometimes you set these audacious goals, you get all excited, and then at a certain point you go, is this a good idea? And then you just kind of go, at a certain point I thought it was like keep going.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Keep going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Well, I used to also say the single was like, you could always quit later.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

The beauty about later is it's never now. That's a great way to use that one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

But you know, no, this is like there are valid reasons to quit. You're like in like first of all, you're not having fun, definitely shouldn't do it. Second of all, you're injuring yourself, definitely shouldn't do it. Third, like something else is happening in your life that you should not be away from. You should be there. You know, those are all great reasons to quit. But then I think the problem is sometimes, you know, people are in a bad situation, then they quit, then they regret it. So then I'm just staving off future regrets.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

This is the thing. It's like in bikepacking, you're out there sometimes two weeks, sometimes longer. It's like, I don't know, sleep on it. Decide the next day, maybe give yourself a day. Because is is your goal to win or is it to finish or to be out there? Because you already like set aside this time to do this thing, so just do it. Find a way where it's better, you know, and then you'll feel better about yourself too, instead of just walking away.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

See it through. Unless there's a good reason to not do it. Exactly. In which case, don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Personal harm.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

That's like no. It's bike ride. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 19:30

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

That's great. Okay. I want to talk about around the world.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So you did you in 2024, you went around the world and you set the fastest time that a woman had ever done it by a good margin. And now 2026, on June 7th, you're going to embark again with the objective of doing it faster than any human has ridden around the world.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

I'm just going to leave it wide aperture in the beginning. Between those two poles, what you've achieved and what you're planning to do, fill in the gap a little bit for me. It's not a really a question, but what is on top of your mind when you think about what you've done and what you're embarking on.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Totally. This is cool. So yeah, 2024 went after the women's record. Um, and that was kind of like this open-ended well, let's just go for it. You know, it's the biggest ride of my life. Most time I'd spend like at pursuing one thing. It was pretty simple. I got a route. So the thing with the world record is you have to ride at least 18,000 miles, either east or west, across two opposite sides of the globe. So for me, it's Madrid, Spain, and Wellington, New Zealand. You can't zigzag back and forth, and you have to take commercial travel between points, like between continents. So I was like, okay, I gotta make a route. Um, where can that be? And then set out, you know, and not really worry about accommodation. I kind of have this idea in my mind. I think I could ride about 170 miles a day. That was my average. Amazing. Yeah. And then, of course, all sorts of things come up. Um, but I think maybe three weeks before I set out, I had this idea of like, what if I just invited everybody to come ride with me?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, you did it really like a party. It was like a rolling party.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Well, I got how cool. Because it's like this so cool, these solo efforts, like, yeah, there's something to them. But it's like for people to come and like be part of it, I was like, have fun, you know, because they can track me, they can show up, they can join for a few miles.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

And it seems very aligned with what you were saying before, like how you get so much out of seeing more people participating in these and the women's fields growing and people being able to do it. So you made the ride an invitation for people to do it with you.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Right. And they showed up.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

You know, and there wasn't really a plan. I didn't have like, oh, come to this point at this time. They just had to watch and see. And but they would like to dig. Into their out and be like, Oh, you're passing by my mom's house. And then they would like come out, they'd tell me this stuff on the bike, riding with me, they'd say it send other family members out in different continents. And so amazing. I thought this is so fun. You know, I knew it was gonna be like a little bit more mentally, because I've often ride alone and I'm used to that. So I was like, oh, having people around that'll be kind of I won't just be focusing on me. Um, but I was like worth it.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Would you say that you're an introvert? Do you recharge when you're okay? So I can see that that could be depleting, but it didn't end up being that for you?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Well, because it ended up being I was alone half the time and with people half the time. So I was like, oh, cool. And then I would it was also really interesting because I would see like where the like ultra or the cycling culture is really strong and places where it's smaller, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Became a kind of a barometer.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Like with people, with infrastructure, with all kinds of things. And you know, this I wasn't on a real set route, like I have to ride, but I can I can detour a bit. So we had made this really this route to be like really beautiful, go through all the cities, over the road.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

You asked your friends to make the routes, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

And you didn't do like the fastest route, but because I was like, I I thought I'd only get one shot at this. I might as well go to some pretty places. Yeah. Like, let's go to some cool places, let's go through Paris, you know, let's go to Istanbul, all this stuff. It's not the fastest, of course, but it's fun. Uh all the people coming out just made it amazing. It made it like a celebration on the bike. But I did have those times of recharge where it was like nobody was out there. And that was good too. I mean, that was good for me just to look around and be in these places. And uh, so it was it was good. It was really balanced in a way. I mean, of course it's not balanced because I'm on the road for 108 days, sleeping in a different place every night. But I look at the end at the metrics, and I was like riding for 12 hours a day, off the bike for 12 hours a day. Balance. Unintentionally. Yeah. But also I was like, well, for an ultra endurance record, that's not a lot of riding.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Right. And so that's a good shifting gear. So the first time around the world, rolling celebration, you said and kind of balanced, and a route that reflected interests of going through cities or beautiful mountain passes or more scenic routes. So balanced and experienced and at the same time set the record for the fastest women's time ever. And now you're setting out to do the fastest time outright, which is carving 30 days off.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

And that's a different animal.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

It is very different.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

So how do you see that animal can compare and contrast? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Well, I mean, when I went out 2024, I looked at the overall record set by Mark Beaumont, and it's 78 and a half days, and I thought, and he spent half a million pounds. And first of all, I didn't have that kind of money to have like a support crew. Plus, I didn't really want it at the time. I was like, you know what, I just kind of want to do this thing. But then after I like set the new women's record, my wife made this really beautiful full-length documentary about it. How can people watch it? So the movie's called They All Rides Around the World. Uh it's up on YouTube for free.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Shout out to Rue, who is right here with us now and shooting this. It's actually true.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

It's true.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

We didn't have a videographer, and Rue was like, I will shoot and record this podcast. So respect and gratitude to you, Rue. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Let's see. I watched the movie 13 times and then I was like, oh my God, I stopped all the time. Because I mean, if anybody came out, I stopped and you know, visited for 10, 15 minutes, and then it's like you start doing the numbers, and it's like 10 minutes for 78 days is 13 hours. So I realized, okay, if I want to get this record, if I want to ride it, I have to ride 16 hours a day. So I have to add four hours a day. Uh so then you just start doing these little calculations. Okay, if I ride 16, then what's left? Eight hours are left. I want to sleep for six. I don't want to cut sleep any more than that. So then I have two more hours for stops. You know, whether that's having a quick snack, pea break, changing layers, whatever I can stop to visit. Um but it's it's possible. And it's not even it's the same pace I averaged last time, which was 15 miles an hour for the whole thing. And then this time I'm riding, I think, at least 150,000 less feet of climbing.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

So the course is more optimized.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

It sounds like you've been looking kind of like a mathematician at the numbers. Yeah, because that's like looking at efficiencies. It's time. Can I do it?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

It's just time.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

And you know it sounds like you know you can do it and you've analyzed what it'll take to do that. So my question to you is in doing it that way, do you is it gonna not be a rolling celebration?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, yeah, it still will be, because people can still come, they can still ride with me. And then this time, you know, it's I'm going for the overall. It's like people don't think women can do these things. Of course not. First of all, they underestimate women's capacity in a lot of things. Yes. And and women do it, we do it to ourselves too.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

We're like with conditioning.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Like I'm talking earlier. I'm not strong enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not capable, you know. Why did I think I could do this? We we do this to ourselves. I mean, yeah, we have limits, but it doesn't mean that everybody else doesn't either. You know, you take a bikepacking race, nobody's like lollipops having an easy preezy time. Nobody wins anything by accident. It doesn't happen. It's hard. You gotta work at it, you gotta be disciplined, you gotta stay focused. Um, but I still think I can stay focused and have fun. Uh and try to do this thing that seems like you know, shooting for the stars.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, it's it's the big one. I mean it's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

The difficult part is, you know, I this time I'll have a support crew, which seems sounds like it'll make it easier, which it should and will, but it's more complicated. So, you know, difficulties are like how do we get a motor home in Kazakhstan when that's not a thing?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

All the planning, all the logistics, all the fundraising.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Because it's more expensive. Sure. You know, the budget I think is three three to four times more than last time when I rode, carried my own stuff, and Rue needed a rental car to take photos and video. So the first reason I didn't think I could do the record is because of the cost. And then I've thought about this a lot. Is it worth it? And then ultimately, yes, because it's like I don't think I'm the only woman that could do this, but I think if I show the example, then other people feel like they can do these kinds of things too. Yes. And this is possible in the world. You know, I'm like, women can like compete on the same level right now in ultra, and that's amazing. You know, it's very rare in sports that we get to even try this stuff. First of all, we don't even get to start at the same start line, so you'd never know. Second, it's like we're built differently. But when the distance is that long and it's that complicated and there are that many things involved, uh, possible. You know, and I like being out there. I think that's part of my resilience. Even if my body isn't a hundred percent athlete, you know, my heart is, my mind is.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, I'll keep I'll keep trying.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I want to come back to the thing that you've said a couple of times around being an example of what a woman can do, and that often people are saying a woman can't do that or this or that, and how sometimes maybe that even becomes a belief.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

But how do you see that and how do you see what you're doing as valuable in calling bullshit on that?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Totally. I mean, and it's not even gender specific.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Great.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

People see and they see me, I'm normal sized, and they're like, if she can do it, I might be able to do this, you know, and I think, yes, like you can. It's good for us to have these goals, and we don't all look like superheroes, you know. We look like for ourselves, you know, and I see this with other people too. You and I'm I'm at fault too. Sometimes I look at somebody and think, well, how are they gonna do that? And then they do it. And it's not a bad thing to question, it's it's just a cool thing when somebody overcomes something so daunting, you know, and I I like witnessing that, I like trying to live it. And I like, you know, when you're I have a lot of time out there. It was 78 days. If I can ride, my goal is to ride 240 miles per day. That would have me finishing in 75, but I need the extra time for travel. But yeah, I think I'll have time where it's like we learn something, we change the plan, we do something different, you know, and then by the end of it, I'll be a lot better at this than I was at the start. So will the crew, you know, and that's cool. It's a cool way to learn. I'm not, I'm hopefully not gonna do it a third time.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

After the first time, I heard you say you didn't plan on doing it again, and here you are doing it again.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Well, that's because I can go for this thing, and that's the other thing with this record specifically. Even if I broke it, it that wouldn't stand for long. There's so many more people coming up next year. Somebody else will break it. Fine. No problem, good. That's good for the sport. Records are meant to be broken, they're meant to fall. That shows that the sport's elevating, that people are trying different things, finding success. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to hold any of the stuff that's not mine to hold.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

By doing this, you can demonstrate that it's doable. And that's powerful. Like when you say, is it worth it? That's worth it to give people an example of believing something that hasn't happened is possible, and then doing it. To everybody who's watching, it's like, wait a minute, what did I think wasn't possible in my life that now I'm I'm inspired to do? Let me let me check and see. Like, what can I what can I imagine that's on the brink or just over what I think is what I believe is possible, and let me go beyond that belief.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

We limit ourselves, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Or the thing of like right now, a lot of things are hard and sad.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Hard and sad.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

So then it's like we need these good stuff. Uplifting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

You're so uplifting.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Well, I don't know. I'm trying.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

No, your energy is so uplifting. It seriously is. Is that the way it feels for you on the inside? Do you feel like you have an optimistic internal set?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

I do. I'm like horribly optimistic. You know, I have my dark moments too, where I think everything's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Talk to me about what motivates you.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Sometimes I'm really motivated by competition. Well, because it's fun. Because that you're like in the game right away, especially if it's head-on. Then I'm like, ah, this is cool. And you know, in my sports, like the competition is riding speed and strength, but it's also how fast can you, you know, resupply? What are what kind of food are you getting? How are you taking care of yourself? What do you do when things go wrong?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

It's a very comprehensive competition.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, and you can't have all the solutions when you're at the start line. So that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

So you have to be nimble in your mind and creative on solutions. You like that part.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I like that part when I'm in it. I don't like it when I'm in front of it. And sometimes I mean, like, I can't believe the stuff I laugh about, like when things are going catastrophically termal. Because you're like, well, what else is gonna happen now? But it's also really, I guess it's extreme and exciting. Riding through like a thunder and lightning storm can be exciting, you know, because you're seeing like what nature does.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Applying your body and your mind to achieve that. Competition. When you find that in competition. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Um, but then I'm also like the one year in Alaska, my goal was to ride all the major roads.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

And I actually, you know, had Rue join me for a bit of that. That's the year that we met. Uh Rita Jett, that used to work at specialists, came out and rode with me for I think a week or two. And I would do it between work shifts. So I'd like to work for two weeks, then I'd go out for two weeks. And it was just to see what was out there. And that was so kind of freeing because I'd done a couple years of like straight these big races, Tour de Vide, Trans Am. And then that summer, no races. I was like, I'm just gonna ride these roads. I have no agenda, I don't know how long I'll ride each day, but it was long daylight, so I'd like you know, ride 150 miles a day. Wow. And see all these places. I'd get to a dead end, and then I'd either, I was like, well, I don't have to ride them both ways, so I'd start hitchhiking back. And I was like, this is meet people so fun. Wow, yeah, and and when you're out there so remote, people would just pull over to like say hello because they're lonely too.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

What are you doing out here? Yeah, here's another human.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, let's like talk. Do you want to come over for dinner, whatever, you know, or meet me at the gas station and have a coffee, because that's like what you do.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

So in that case, it was riding every road in Alaska. So it seems it seems like there's an aspect to your motivation that's kind of conceptual, either either like generally competitive. I'm gonna do this race, and you're interested in your engagement's creative, or conceptual, I'm gonna ride every road in Alaska. Do you like having something that's defined as an idea and then applying yourself to the cool because I also like that there's so much unknown about it because it's like so open, like what is there?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

And then I was like, Well, I gotta go look. And then even with this project, I had like this kind of guidebook called the milepost, and that was determining what the roads are. But then if I was out there and I saw a turn leading to somewhere, I had to take it because I was like, all the roads, all the roads, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

That's so cool. And I was like, how many miles was that?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

It's like 5,000.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

5,000 miles in Alaska.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

That's it though. I know it's a big, it's a lot of land and not that many. Twice the size of Texas, right? I just went to Texas for the first time this year. Whoa, big place.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Big wow. Let's talk a little bit about equipment.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

So the first time around the world, you rode Rubay.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Uh your your Rubay. And then this time around, what's different with your overall kit? Like what did you learn the first time, and what are the main aspects of your kit?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

I mean, the thing is it's just less this same bike. Uh, but last time I carried a sleep kit, tools, um, lots of food, because I was on my own. Um, so I had everything kind of built for durability. I was riding Ruby, 32 millimeter tires, zip through the three wheels. It was just pretty robust. But what I learned over the ride was loved the bike. Uh I was like, this is perfect. The more I rode it, the more I liked it.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

What do you like about it?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Super comfortable. Yeah. It's comfortable, but it's still fast. And I mean, for me, comfort's faster. It's got a little suspension, clearance for wide tires, a really kind of relaxed position. Um, then I throw some arrow bars on there.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

You can put your weight on them and it's more arrow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Exactly. So I can move around, but I never I didn't feel any pain. I didn't take any ibuprofen, nothing. Yeah. The whole ride. And it wasn't because I'm against that, it's because I didn't want to or need to.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

It's interesting. Like people say no pain, no gain, or all that, but it's so wrong. Like if you're in if you're in a position that you can produce power and go for a long time, because it's comfortable, right? That is performance.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I think that we're in the midst of a big we're in a big change. We've been calling that for a long time, but I think people are catching on, you know. Even even Remko Evan Paul said like, comfort is my weapon. That's the way he said it. Because like he can stay in a power position longer and deliver more power for a greater amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Right. Well, the whole thing with this is like when I got into the sport, everything was about deprivation.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Sleep deprivation. And you said suffering and the stiffest bike. So then I go out to the tour divide, ride like a hardtail with a rigid fork, and you know, I've got like one water bottle, and I'm sleeping outside, but I'm not, I'm sleeping four hours and I'm not taking a shower. And last time I rode the tour divide, I was riding like the World Cup with full suspension. I brought a hydration pack, two bottles. I was like buying large pizzas, I was like maximizing everything, never ridden faster. Yeah, never felt better. No, and it's like that goes with the bike too. I'm like more comfort, more fuel, more sleep. You ride faster. You might have to like try to close the gap of people who aren't sleeping at all. But you take a trip like around the world where I'm expecting to take 78 days. I'm like, it's always gonna be a compromise because I can't ride 20 miles an hour. Wish I could. Uh, so I have to ride 16 hours a day, but I can still sleep for six, you know, and that's kind of my minimum of like recovery.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

For sure. Yeah. When you recover, when you rest, when you take the sleep, when you eat properly, when you're hydrated, guess what? You end up going faster as a result.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Well, and then we're it's great that we're all going for results because it makes us take better care of ourselves. Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

It's like a way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

So I mean, even with this, you know, they're around the world, this is not like a normal lifestyle, this is not reasonable. No. But I also think it's not forever. Yeah, you kind of do this focus, and then I'm already thinking about afterward, I'm taking a break. It's not, it's not what's the next thing, you know. It's like this is a big one for me. This is the biggest thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

So uh it seems like that's kind of a way you approach life though, too. Like, here you are, you're doing this now. It's a gift to be able to do it now, and you're not quite sure what's next. And you see, it seems like you're okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I think it's good.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

It's so good, but it's also not common, you know?

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Oh, yeah, I know. I think that's also my problem, though, is like I have no foresight for anything. You know, it's like I I can't like think about what's gonna happen after. I can only think about, you know, maybe what's in front of you. Yeah, mostly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Talk to me about grit.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Oh yeah, grit.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Grit.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

It's girls 12 and 13 years old. Uh most of them have ridden, you know, maybe two miles, and then we do this six-week mentorship program, and at the end they do big adventure capstone ride. One of our girls, she like couldn't, you know. I think the first two minutes she pulled over and said, I can't do this because she had bad asthma. But the thing with grit that I do, it's usually about 15 kids total. They don't have to ride any pace, they just have to ride. They can walk, they can do whatever. Um so it's like just about making it. But everybody's on their own bike. The Alaska one, they carry their own gear to do the camp out. And um this girl, she she didn't think she could do it. She's in tears. Her mom tells us she has bad asthma, she's stuck with it. At the end, she finishes this 60-mile campout ride over three days, and we see her and her mom just hug each other and burst into tears.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

And I thought, so it's it's great.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

The girl's riding into tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Riding into tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Right.

unknown 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

And you started it back in 2017 in Alaska.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yep. And because I was like, oh, with a friend, we were like, well, we didn't ride bikes when we were 12 and 13. We definitely didn't do, you know, bike adventures or bike trips or bike packing. How cool would that be? Bring it up to specialize and say, hey, what do you think about this? They're like, sure, we can send bikes for these kids. And my thing was the kids they do the six-week program, they get to keep the bikes. You know, and these are kids from like low-income neighborhoods. They've never got a new bike.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

And so it's like they show up on the first day, the their name's written on this bike, it's their bike, they get to earn it. You know, these are like entry-level mountain bikes, they're great.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

And also up there, it's like you kind of want a mountain bike because roads are rough, bike paths are rough, we end up on some gravel. It's a really capable bike.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

So ride everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

And we gave them like a rack and some panniers so they could load their own stuff up, and so cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

So cool.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah. So then I moved down to Tucson, so then I'm like, oh, cool, I'll start one down here, and then the Alaska one. My friend Anna kind of took it over and she kept it going there. So we did a couple seasons in Tucson too. And then and then I learned because I'm like working with local schools, like asking the principals, hey, can we do this thing? Oh, we need to figure out where you guys can store the bikes and uh how we can make it happen. Do any of the teachers want to be mentors because they could help us out as well? They know the kids, and we would find these kids because the teachers would nominate the students. And it was often I was looking for girls that were, you know, not necessarily high achievers, but were kind and wanted to work hard. And it's such an important time when girls stop doing sports. A lot of them do, unless they're really good at them or they're already on a team, they just stop doing it because like they want to fit in, they want to be like everybody else. You know, there's pressure to look a certain way, not to sweat, not to be grimy. But then if they're on a bike and they're out with a group of girls, the pressure's off.

unknown 43:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And they can do whatever they want. You know, like some of the kids, their thing was like painting their helmets, or some of them didn't really talk. Some of them talked the whole time. You know, some of them raced each other. I mean, and then I would have so if they finished the season, they could come back the following year as a student mentor.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Great.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

And then I would see how the kids changed from seventh to eighth to ninth grade. You know, the quietest ones were now the most social, were the ones leading the young ones.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Because they had a thing, in a way, you think because they had had this experience and and they made friends with each other doing this hard thing, you know, and I thought this is so cool. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

And and we oh, this is terrible. So I wanted them to go up to Aklutna where it's like the water source for increasing. It's like this beautiful lake with glaciers around it. But I was like, okay, we'll go up there. Then 13 miles or 14 miles down the trail, there's a Forest Service cabin that can fit everybody inside. And it's like backs up to a glacier. But the problem is this lake, you have to do this huge road climb that's like maybe 14 to 1800 feet in five miles. Oh for kids who had only ridden two miles before. So they're just like, and I'm like, okay, this is gonna be really rough. I didn't really think this out beforehand. But you guys can walk your bikes, we can take our time, we can take breaks. There was one girl one year, she was like, she walked the whole thing in the back with me and somebody else and another kid. The next year she came back, she's like, I'm riding the hill. She did it.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

She was just like And she conquered the hill. The hill was still there. She came back and she got it. It's so tangible.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

It's so cool. She made it to the top of the hill. I couldn't believe she did it. Bikes do that. It connects everybody. Sometimes it connects everybody.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Particularly, I think what you're saying, like the you know, NYCA, the high school mountain biking, and now it's moving down into middle school and the grip program. And like if there's ability to provide access, it's so inclusive. Like you can ride a bike in lots of different ways. If you want to go fast, go fast. If you want to take in the sights and be in nature, do it that way. You want to do with a group, do it with a group. You want to do it by yourself, do it by yourself. You know, sometimes with parents and kids, they find something they can do together at a time when there may not be that. It can be so many things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Well, and these kids had bikes and learned their neighborhoods, learned where their school connected to the rest of Anchorage. I mean, this was crazy. We work with a school on the east side of town, 10 miles from the coast. And I learned we r had the girls all ride out to the coast one day, and most of many of them had never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

And I was like, they're like, that's the ocean. And I was like, oh, I didn't even think of that as a possibility that you like lived your whole life here and you never saw it.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Empowering.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

That's so cool. And especially in a place like Alaska where it's like so naturally beautiful, but some of them had never left their neighborhoods, basically, or they'd been in a car somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Expanding horizons.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

I just saw it. It made me think about the world in a different way for sure. And then I'm like, how cool you could ride your bike there.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

In your 2024 around the world, you had a podcast. People could follow you. Are you doing a podcast in 2026?

SPEAKER_00 46:39

We are, but this time I can take the time at the end of the day, so I'm gonna have to do it on the bike.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Wow, okay. So you're gonna do Lyle Around the World again on the podcast. You're gonna keep it rocking. Yeah, that's great. So everyone's fun. Everyone can find that. Yeah. And then in terms of tracking and stuff, how do people follow you?

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yeah, so we'll put it up on Follow My Challenge. Um, so it'll be a tracking page, shows my location every five to ten minutes, and then we'll share each day's route on Kamut so people can actually download the route and uh come out or see where it intersects.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Great. So we'll be able to track you, we'll be able to join in when you're riding by, cheer you on. Yeah, yeah. We understand that you're not gonna stop and chit-chat as much. You're gonna keep it rolling, and we know you can't draft behind anyone. So we'll be able to follow your wheel. That'll be nice.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

That's excellent. Cannot wait. Really can't wait. And before we sign off, is there anything you want to share with the audience? Like any final messages?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

We we set these goals, we give ourselves a really hard time. I gotta do this, and then I think the reminder is it's like, well, you know you don't. You if it's fun, if you're focused, if you want to do this, like think about those things and don't think about the pressure because if you're ready, you'll do your best.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Great. Yeah, so keep it fun, let it be a celebration.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

And and think about what you want to do, do it, but don't hold it too tightly, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Beautiful. Well, Lel, thanks so much for making the time, and we wish you all the best. We're gonna be watching and cheering you on. Your energy and what you do in the world and the way you do it is really uplifting and a positive example for all of us. Really appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah, great talking with you.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

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