Mads Würtz Schmidt | How He Won Unbound

Mads Würtz Schmidt came to Unbound with one clear goal: to win. Then he delivered one of the biggest victories of his career.

In this episode, host Ben Capron sits down with Mads shortly after the race to hear the story of his Unbound victory in his own words. Mads takes us inside the race, from the early positioning and shifting dynamics at the front to the decisive moments that shaped the finish. He explains what was happening in the lead group, how he managed the pressure and uncertainty of a race this long, and when he began to believe the win was possible.

The most dramatic moment came when a mechanical problem threatened to end his day. Teammate Keegan Swenson stopped, offered Mads his wheel, and gave him a simple instruction: take my wheel, then go win.

Mads tells the full story of the exchange—including how, in the urgency of the moment, he threw his own wheel onto the ground without considering that Keegan would still need it. Keegan was left behind to sort out the mess while Mads returned to the race.

The moment revealed something bigger than tactics. Keegan is one of the greatest gravel racers in the world, but he was willing to sacrifice his own race for the good of the team. Mads explains what that gesture meant to him and why the victory belonged to more than one rider.

Mads also talks about the physical and mental demands of Unbound, the importance of staying calm when plans begin to unravel, and how preparation creates the confidence to make clear decisions deep into a long and unpredictable race.

They discuss the growing role of teamwork in gravel, how riders balance individual ambition with collective goals, and why racing as a true team can create opportunities that no rider could produce alone.

This is the inside story of how Mads Würtz Schmidt won Unbound: a race shaped by preparation, composure, sacrifice, and one teammate telling another to take his wheel and go win.

This episode covers:
How Mads approached Unbound with the goal of winning
What he remembers most clearly from the race
How the decisive moments developed at the front
The mechanical problem that nearly ended his chances
Why Keegan Swenson stopped and gave Mads his wheel
What happened during the chaotic wheel exchange
How Mads returned to the race after the mechanical
Why Keegan’s sacrifice represented true teamwork
How Mads managed the pressure and uncertainty of Unbound
When he began to believe he could win
How preparation creates confidence during a long race
Why composure matters when the original plan falls apart
How team tactics are changing professional gravel racing
The balance between individual ambition and team success
Why the Unbound victory belonged to the entire team

Guest:
Mads Würtz Schmidt
Follow Mads:
Instagram:  madswurtzschmidt 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He looks at me and says, uh, as I remember it, then you just gotta take my wheel. Take my wheel and then you go and win. I take the get the tool out, start to take my wheel off, and then I mess it up badly, because I take my wheel and I just chuck it on the ground. I didn't think about that he was gonna need it. But anyway, he got he he gave me his wheel and then off I went. Keegan was was left there to to fix the whole mess.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Hey Maz, thanks for joining for this recap session. Great to have you.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yeah, cool. It's good to good to catch up again.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

If you're not familiar with Maz, let me just tell you a little bit. Um you heard of him recently from the incredible results that he's had in the gravel scene. So Unbound, as I already let the cat out of the bag, winning in a dramatic way. Um prior to that this year, Track of 360 winning by 11 minutes, going out solo with like 100 kilometers to go. Um Gravel uh Desert Series, Gravel Earth, the Rancho Gravel Winner, Santa Ball winner, basically winning everything under the sun in 2026 and 2025 European champion, um, fourth at Unbound, uh, Tracker winner last year, and um just absolutely uh absolutely amazing career. But prior to that, actually, Mad's career started on the road, winning um junior world time trial championships, um, national champion in the in the junior ranks multiple times, U-23 in time trial and road, um, as a junior winning Perry Roubaix. So the list is long. Grand Tour participation in the Tour de France and the Juro. I can't list all the things that Maz has done. We'd be here for an hour just talking about that. But for now, Maz, let's just get right to Unbound. Like when you reflect on Unbound, um, what comes to mind for you? Like, what do you remember? Talk us through Unbound as an event, just wide aperture. What comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

The first thing I think about is like the thing that I keep thinking about is how tired I was in the end. Like I was really, really tired, and I was just happy that the race was finally done. Um, like it's special to do these long races, especially because I also did the tracker 360 one month before. And when you get into that final hour, hour and a half of these super long races, everything in your body is just screaming at you to stop, and you the the mind is really, you really have to like put it into smaller bits to to get through it, because even 30k in that in the end of that race was just like this is too much. I don't want to ride my bike anymore, I just want to go home. I'll if I could stop right now, I would, but you know, I was still racing and racing for the wind, so obviously you keep going, but I was so damn tired by the end of that race.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Um, and that is what I mental the mental duration and just keep keep grinding when every bit of your body is just yelling at you to stop. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

So that is when when I fall back into like memories of the race, that is my first memory, it was how tired I was, but of course, then there's the whole the win. Like that was that was special, and it was it was more special than I actually expected it to be. Um so that was kind of cool. Um to get a bit more emotional about it. And it was also super nice to cross the finish line and see the whole staff group. They were there like for this race, they all wore red t-shirts, so I could just spot them out and you know, hogs and high fives, and that was really cool. Um my the guy who's traveling around with me here in Europe, uh Charlie, the mechanic, we uh you know, he was the first guy I saw in the in the crew there, and uh, you know, big hawk, and and yeah, so super happy with him. Um and then of course Matt coming in second. Uh big hawk for that big guy. I always have to get on my toes to reach him, but uh it's uh yeah, good moments, and then of course waiting for Keek and he he saved my race, and and it was it was special to greet him at the finish line and and give him a proper thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Uh I mean how about how about Keegan? We're gonna get into it. I want to hear about the whole wheel change and the whole thing, but just at first, holy smokes. I mean, you guys got away, then there was the problem. He sacrificed his race, gave you the wheel, had problems with the wheel, but then managed to pick off everybody except for four ahead of him and get fifth overall on the day. I mean, wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah. No, that was super impressive. I think I think Keegan he got to a point there where he gave me the wheel and and he got fixed that and he got moving again. Of course, he lost a lot of time. But you also get to a point where you kind of you don't really get more tired than you just keep going at whatever you have. So my thinking, I I think that he reached that level pretty quick because he had to go so deep in the beginning. So when everybody else goes down to that level of their like full fatigue, Keegan's bottom level is just higher than a lot of other guys. So I think by the end when everybody started to come down, he still had more gas in his legs, uh, even being super tired and and really feeling the race from his big effort in the beginning. Um so I think that's why he came back. Uh interesting. And then of course it's it's yeah, nice for him and for the team that he's he's top five. Like, yeah, his his bottom level, like the lowest level is still higher than everyone else, their lower levels. So he could come back and race for fifth. Um and also get nice points for the Grand Prix for him. So yeah, um, one, two, and five in the men's race, and half third, because uh that was also a crux on third position.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Um so uh trucks swept the premium on the men's side, two of the two of the three top steps on the women's side. I mean, we'll talk about crux a little bit, but this this um this conversation is really about about you and and unbound. And so we kind of talked about overview, then you talked a little bit about the wheel, but take us from the start now. Like so you guys you guys started, like walk us through the race from the from your perspective, your experience of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, so I started first line. I got there were call-ups. Um and uh so I was fourth last year, so so I had a call-up. Uh, I didn't really mind it too much because in the end, uh it didn't matter your your starting position in this race because you have some K kilometers in the start on on an asphalt road, you have neutral start, so it doesn't matter where you start. Um so I was just chilled most of the neutral. I just sat in the back, just wanted to get into the race nice and calm. I didn't want to stress about being in position where it didn't matter. Um, and then once we got closer to the gravel, I moved up and then I was ready to race, um, but wanted to stay calm as long as possible. Uh we had planned uh there was a climb, the only real climb in the race at 85k, 90k, something like that. Sorry, I don't do miles. Um where we wanted to put pressure as a team. Um so the idea until that point was to just follow the race. Um, and that was all of us. Uh was just follow, but not spend any stupid energy, don't do anything stupid because we wanted to be there with yeah, a full team. Um so yeah, start went pretty smooth, then we got to the mud. Um and uh you know I was I took the risk and I I was riding road shoes with road pedals. So I just I if I had to stop and put my foot down, I would have to be stood there for a while to also clean my shoes. So I was when when we entered the mud, I was a few positions back because I on purpose, because I wanted to see what was happening in front of me on this air MMR. Um so because once you're in the mud, it's nine out of ten times it's too late. Uh so it would just start pick up and and picking up mud, and you would clock up and had to stop.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

So Martin, just to just for anyone who wasn't tuned into the conditions of this year's Unbound, it it rained hard, and you guys had not just a little mud, but there was standing water on the course, lots of mud, and it's a whole different ball game in that in that kind of condition. So continue, continue.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, so this, yeah, the peanut butter mud. Um so yeah, then I can see people are starting to struggle. Like they're sick sacking all over the road, uh, some are heading straight to photographs and some are already stopped. Um But then I can see Matt. He's the first guy, and he's riding full gas on this little rise with the mud, and he's making it to the top, he doesn't stop, and a few other guys are doing that as well. Um so my first instinct is to because I see what Matt is doing, I see what the faster guys are doing. They are just going full gas, um, and they are going at a certain speed, so my instinct is to just put the hammer down and try and go full. Um and then I made it to the top, I didn't have to stop. So and we were only 10 to 15 guys um making it up there without stopping. That was the separation right there, the first major. Yeah, and so I think I think that came down to speed, whether you could hold um at least a certain speed to get yeah, to avoid getting stuck in the mud. Um then we were there with me and Matt, and I was like, this is a good situation for us. Um, but nobody really wanted to ride. It was still far to go, like it was still 300k to the finish, and uh and uh both me and Matt were there, so I don't think yeah, maybe they were looking a bit too much on us to to do the work, but we didn't want to do it. And slowly people came back, uh, and then the group ended up being like 30 riders going into the first feed zone, and then that was the race, that was the 30 guys thereabouts who were who were in the race. Um nobody else came back. Um, so yeah, then first feed zone, we make it through, we all get our drivetrains uh jet washed, um, and then we move on. Uh from there was I can't remember, maybe it was 20k until this point where we uh we wanted to put the pressure. Um and it's kind of a draggy climb, it's it's up and down, but more up than down, of course. And then the last 700 meters or something is is pretty steep. So me and Keegan start rotating at the bottom of the climb, uh, at the real base of it, and goes we go pretty fast until we get to the point like we have a left turn, and from there I think it's one and a half K to the top, and it starts to get more and more steep until the the last 700 meters, but then it's also muddy there, and it's the kind of mud that is heavy, and I was afraid it was gonna stick on the on the tire, but but it didn't, but it was heavy, like it was proper heavy, so so you couldn't hold at very good speed, but that just made the climb slower, which is also make it harder. Um, so then we get to the steep part, and I push, I go, I attack off the front, and I quickly realize that I'm sitting on my own. Um look back, see what's going on. Uh I don't really see who's there, but then so I just keep pushing, and then shortly before the top, I look back and I see Keegan and Kobe. They are 10 seconds behind me or something, and then there's another group like 10-15 seconds behind them. So I slow down and I wait for them, and then I make sure on the top was kind of a plateau, it wasn't just up and down. So so then on the top I wait for them, and then as they approach me, I start to speed up. So when they get to me, then I'm at their speed, and then I'd go full gas on the flats because I was like, okay, this is good. Here we are, a group of three, and I don't want the guys in the back, like the second group to come back. So I'm gonna do an effort now, and then we're gonna go away. And then um I was going too fast, so I I dropped them again and had to wait one more time. Um, and then I did a more steady but hard effort, and slowly we got a bigger gap um until yeah, and then we get to this point, like right turn, and then it's we've done the downhill, which is not super technical, it's just chunky. Um also a few uphills, but mostly downhill, and then we go right, and then we have this road, it's just straight, it's 21k. Um yeah, rollers up and down, but but we could see back and see that we had a pretty big gap. Um and there I think we got away. We took two more minutes. Like we did we did these 21k with uh I think it was 49 average kilometers an hour. It was it was a good tailwind to uh yeah. And then we get to the second feed zone. Uh me and Keegan, we get our bikes jet washed again because we have the time for it, and then we start to head north, um turning into headwind, and then the rain starts again. Like proper rain, and then it rained for at least two hours, I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

And uh what's your mental state at this point? Like how are you feeling mentally, physically, where are you when the rain starts coming down?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

You see, at this point, I'm because we are ahead, like we are leading the race, and we are I'm I'm so focused on getting a bigger time gap and and go fast and do the right things. I I don't really think about the weather other than of course it's wet and there's a lot of dirt. Um I kept my glasses on. I refuse to take them off because yeah, exactly. Uh I didn't want to get all this dirt in my eyes, so I kept them on. Um anyway, it it got so wet, and my shoes, like I could feel like we can call them like small mountains of sand between my toes. So at one point it's and it's raining so much, like we have lightning strikes around us, and it was crazy. Uh one point I take I I take the shoe off and I take the insole out of the shoe to try and get the mud away because it was annoying how it built up with between my toes. So as I'm riding, I'm trying to do this, but it only made it worse. Um, so back with the shoe, put it on, and then in the end it it was so wet, it was Yeah, insane. And it only made it hotter. Um because she just had more friction from the ground beneath, you know, just gravel is never not really the easiest thing to to move across, and then let it so it's wet, it's it it's it's like your bike sinks into it, and then suddenly you also have these massive um puddles of water that is also you know holding the bike back. So it we got slowed down so many times. Um so so but yeah, I didn't I didn't really think about it because it was the temperature was still nice, I didn't get cold. You were in it, and yeah, and and I was so focused on on doing what I gotta do, what I had to do. So so yeah, um just put the head down and go as fast as possible. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Um and then we got you guys got clean, you got cleaned up, you got pressure washed, it's raining proper hard, you're going, you're fighting, everyone else is in the same boat, basically, but by this point you have a pretty good gap, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, yeah. We we end up having like I think we had nine and a half minutes or something. Um and it's just me and Keegan, Kobe, he got dropped. Uh so you know, everything was looking perfect. Like I was on a good day, Keegan he started to to struggle, but you know, we were working together. Um, I was doing the majority of the work. Uh, we had already spoken together, he already said that. You just gotta take me to the finish line, you win the race, because you deserve it, but just take me to the finish line. I was like, of course, we're teammates, so I'm I'm not gonna make you look stupid.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

It's cool to hear, you know, that that Keegan was like, hey, this is yours, we ride together, and you're like, Yeah, of course, you're you know, you're gonna get the second one. But where he really showed up as a teammate was was with the puncture, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, 100%. That was that was like that was a class act from him. Um and and you know, we had a debrief uh a few days ago, and one of the things that he said he should have done better was making that call sooner. Shouldn't have taken us three and a half minutes for him to say, take my wheel, he should have just looked at the cot because the cut was massive in my tire. There was no way of fixing that. And even before we started to try and fix it, he should he was like, Yeah, I should just have said straight off, take my wheel, then I'll fix this. Um that just shows he's been thinking about it, what could he have done better um in this situation? Uh and and that was you know pretty cool for a guy like him. Like he's he's won so much, he's a superstar in Gravel. Um, that he uh he's got this this side of him where he is also a proper team mate, teammate, and team member, and and he looks after the greater good of the team. Um it's amazing. It's amazing. So that was you know incredible.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Absolutely. So take us to that moment. You guys are off the front, you got time, you're feeling pretty good, the weather is not good, and then you get a pretty I mean the rocks there, you know, the flint hills is like they're sharp. So you got a big cut in your sidewall, hey, in the rear wheel.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, it it went from the from the bottom of the side wheel until like all up to the top of the tire. Uh so yeah, as Keegan said in the debrief, I I also don't understand why we tried and tried to fix it, but anyway. Um so yeah, we're trying to fix this, and and we have a lot of time, like we have a big time gap, so we're not really stressed about it, I feel. Um try to fix it. You we use up all of our plugs. Um, and then Keegan makes the call, and he says, he looks at me and says, uh, as I remember it, then you just gotta take my wheel. And I was unsure if we were even allowed to do that. So I ask, are we allowed to do that? Yeah, yeah, no problem. Take my wheel and then you go and win. And then we start, I take the get the tool out, start to take my wheel off. Um, and then I miss it up badly because I take my wheel and I just chuck it on the ground. Uh I didn't think about that he was gonna need it. I think that was a mistake from my my road days where if you have a puncture, the wheel just goes, yeah, it seems there, you get a wheel, yeah. Yeah, uh, but he needed that wheel. Um, so that was a mistake from my part. Um, but anyway, he got he he gave me his wheel, um, got it on. It was a different cassette, but we made it work. And then off I went. And then Keegan Keegan was was left there to to fix the whole mess.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Uh so just saying a few Keegan's not here to tell it, and I haven't heard it from him directly, but I've heard I've heard him say it, recount it. So then the wheel came off and the cassette came off, and the spring for the for the ratchet came out in the mud. He didn't realize that at first. It was spinning. He went back, found the spring, reassembled it, and then managed, as we mentioned before, to pick up, pick off all but but four riders ahead to take fifth. So, I mean, just a shout out to Keegan, like to sacrifice. His race for you to then also have the ability to put it back together, get back on the bike, and do that result. And I mean, I just got to say, for me, I was so inspired by the teamwork that you guys demonstrated. Not only your performance, but the way that you all worked together. There's been so much talk about specialized super team and gravel is going to ruin it. From my perspective, you guys showed what true teamwork is about sacrificing, supporting each other, getting the job done, as you said. And it was like the team really, you won, the team won. And I think that that's that's a powerful thing to put into the world, you know? So anyway, I I interjected there. But all right, so now you're now you're off the front by yourself with Keegan's wheel. You got it rolling, and you're still a long way from the finish and basically solo, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, I'm all alone. Um and you know, I got a little bit of adrenaline after the wheel change. Um, and and I was, as I said, I was on a really, really good day. I didn't feel my legs. And when I was with Keegan, um he was he was getting really fatigued. Like he was he was struggling. Um and and he helped me manage my my effort to you know not overdo it because we wanted to do it together and and go to the finish together. So the goal was at before the wheel change, the goal was to go to the finish line together. I do my part to help Keegan get there, and he does his part. Um and so so I didn't get to really send it um the way I I wanted to. I because I was at like it's and then then I had we have the wheel change, I have so much adrenaline in me, so I'm like, now I'm gonna go. Yes. And I did that for like an hour, and I went really, really fast for an hour until the the this the last and third feed zone. Um I was moving, like really, really moving, just head down, aerodynamic position, um and uh and and just flying. Um didn't think about anything, just still, yeah, of course, eat, drink, um, and then get to the feed zone. Uh and then the guys in the feed zone, they changed my wheel. I got back, and like I said, that was appropriate for my my derail, and then got moving again, and I was still going well. Like I I was going well the whole race. Um, but but I there I still had the that extra gas, and and I quickly built up like a pretty big gap again. I think I was down to six minutes or something, I got it back up to seven and a half, eight minutes maybe. So, you know, I was I was still still going well. But then at 80k to go, turn right, direction is back towards Emporia, and it is a freaking headwind, and it is a yeah, it's it's it's a really heavy headwind. Um and I'm I'm still doing good. Like I'm doing good for a long while also in the headwind, but the speed is just lower, of course, which get that and that gets into my head. Also, the wind, extra more like extra noise from the wind around my ears, like just my brain got there was too much going on around my head, so I just started to get more and more tired, and then the speed was so low because of the headwind, so that is less stimulating. Because suddenly, before I was going 40k an hour, and suddenly I'm going 25 to 30k an hour, and that just slowed everything down, including the way I was thinking. Um, but in the end, so yeah, I get through the like then first bit of headwind. I'm just counting down the K's until we have a right turn, because then I know I have 5k of tailwind. Uh, it's on rollers, so it's up and down, quite bad road, steep climbs, but still it was not headwind. Um, and that is where on these kickers was the last moment where I really had that extra gas in my legs, like where I could go big power. Then after the 5k turn left, then I left again, and from there it's 40k headwind to the finish. And I'm struggling in my head. Not my my my my legs were good. Like when when my my coach he's been analyzing the race, and from hour three to hour six is when me and Keegan breaks away and we are riding, and then from hour six I'm alone. Then from hour six to hour nine, my power is the same as from hour three to hour six. Unbelievable. So from hour three to hour six, I ride two hundred ninety-seven watts average. From hour six to hour nine, I'm two hundred and ninety-six. So the difference is one what unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

I mean But but the way I'm when it's unbelievable that you held that power for that long. But it sounds like when once the wind clocked around and it was on your nose on your nose and there was the noise, your head started tripping out. So were you feeling like you weren't going as good, even though you actually were?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I felt like I was going really, really bad. You did. Yes, I did. And I kept look, so suddenly I start to look back all the time. Um because I didn't know the gap, and but I couldn't see anyone. And you know, you know the roads there, you can see pretty far. But then I didn't trust my eyesight. And because I wanted to win it so bad for the team, and after what Keegan did, and and for my family, the sacrifice I've been doing. I've been far like I've been away from home for a long time, visiting you guys at Morgan Hill before for important stuff. It was just so many things were I've been going on like this whole spring, all the races I've won, all the training I've done, the sacrifice, uh the support from my family. Um so it was just I needed to win this race because this was the final box to check of this this whole spring campaign.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

All the effort, all the preparation, all the sacrifice from your family and and everything. This was the moment. So you keep you keep digging.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

So so yeah, so just keep pushing as hard as I can um and and just try and get that bike up to speed. Uh and and it it was difficult there in the headwind. Um, but it's funny, I've I've been watching the last 20k of the race, um, and I can see how I change. I think it's about 10k to go. I turn right, and then there's crosswind, and I can just see the way I'm pedaling that my whole and I of course I also remember it, but I can see that that's a different bike rider to the guy who was just before that corner. Because as soon as the bike got back up to speed, and I was going those 35k an hour again to 40, and the cadence is a bit lighter, you feel the speed in the bike, then the power also comes easier, you don't have to fight for it that much. Um so that was that, and then in the end, from that ride turn, I was just happy all the way to the finish line because then I knew no more headwind, no more, no more slow riding now. It's just get to the finish line and celebrate and in and enjoy. But but the from kilometer 40 to 10k to go, I was I was in in in big struggles mentally. Uh I was just getting so tired. Um, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Amazing. Amazing race, man. Well, thank you for walking us through it. Incredible, like incredible numbers, incredible mental strength, not only you know, physical strength, but as you say, with the wind on your nose, just continuing to fight. And I think, you know, we can't, I can't relate to riding at numbers like that or distances like that, at speeds like that, but I know what it's like to fight an invisible nemesis like a headwind, and and lots of people listening do. So it's good to know that even that's that that's hard even for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah, and I'm even from Denmark where we grow up in wind like that, but it it it almost cracked me uh mentally there. Uh I was yeah, I think that was the most tired I've been all year. Uh so I was, yeah, it was hard, but worth it.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Amazing, amazing. You were talking about um the the crux, the new the new crux that's out, and you were dying to get on it. I mean, the conditions weren't as fast as they could be for that bike to really shine, but how did the crux work for you?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Well, it it was it worked out brilliant. Like I think of course the results speak for themselves, one, two, and three in the men's race, one, two, three, and five, and then then Gian Sophia in in the women's. Um, but it is it is an amazing bike. Uh, the week after Unbound out did a race in in Europe, um so just eight days after, and and I won that race as well. Um and it is it's great in all terrains. Um this particular race, I there is a three-kilometer single track where I went practicing the day before, and I did the same last year, and I could just feel way more confident and stable through that single track, and I went like 30 seconds faster than the year before. Wow. Um, just from feel like being more confident on the bike coming through that. So that was pretty like an eye-opener to me. It felt pretty good riding that, and I'm not a mountain biker, so but but I felt quite good doing that. Um so that was that was pretty pretty good. But coming back to Unbound, it's just just fast that bike. It's it's so unbelievably good. Um and and you know, I get amazed every time I sit on that bike, that it's just just a great bike. I think it's my favorite bike of all time. Wow. Uh just because it is it's such a pleasure to ride it. Uh it's a pleasure to race it, uh to train on it, but it just works for everything. So it's it's it's a really, really good bike. Um and uh now the race was slow, I I and and and could that was that was down to the conditions, but I can say that I think it was the Monday before Unbound, me, Matt, and Keegan, we do 200k on the course. And I've got these long sustained efforts, like first two hours and then one hour more of even higher pace, but I think that day we go for we do 200k and we come home with almost 39 average speed in training. So it is proper fast that bike. That was in in perfect conditions. Yeah, so it is a crazy.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

What kind of surface were you riding on?

SPEAKER_00 34:08

We were on the course.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, on the on-bound course. On the onbound course 39, we're riding Pathfinders, or I mean what were we Pathfinder 50s? Different conditions than the race, but holy so you would have gotten that race done in a hurry if the conditions had been like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I was like, if it was if it would have been a dry race, it would have been sub eight hours, I'm sure. Done and dusted. I'm sure it would have been sub eight hours. Like new record, but amazing, amazing. Let's hope for dry conditions next year.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Any other any other words about Unbound, about the experience that you would like to share or to the team or to the support, to the fans, any anything coming to mind?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Oh it's it's funny because somehow it it it always feels like it's a long I've I've only been there two times, so I don't I don't want to generalize it, but it feels like it's a long week when you're there, but at the same time, the days just pass on so fast, and then suddenly you're a race day. Um and it's it's it's a special feeling being there, and it's it's a special atmosphere for the race. Um and and it's just I think it's it's worth to go experiencing that. Um if you're pro or not, whatever. But but it is it is special. Um and I'd also say another thing that that week we spent there, we had those two houses, staff house, athlete house. It was a great week. Like we had a lot of fun. Uh the the guys we were staying in their houses, they had these little electric uh kits, motorbikes. So we could so we could stay all weeks, we could go on that to the mechanic's house to just talk some trash, uh, you know, have fun, um have a coke or sparkling water or whatever, um, and just hang out with the whole crew. It was a great week. Uh, and every one of them just did a super job. And you know, we we all performed uh really well at the race. So, you know, big kudos to the team, to the guys, to to everyone around. It's uh it's an amazing project, and and I'm really proud to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Well, we're we're proud to have you be a part of it and proud of the results and also proud of your approach. And like you say, the way the whole team has come together and really gelling, you know, relationships are everything. And you guys, I see we all see that you're building that trust, you're accomplishing things greater together than anyone could do individually, and that's super inspirational to see. So thanks for that shout out. And then you know, just a couple more questions. Like between Unbound, you did that one race, but then you've basically been taking a lot of time off the bike, at least that's what your plan was. Is that what you've been is that what you've been doing? Have you been putting your feet up and and doing a reset?

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yeah, so I did the raise one week after Unbound, and then I didn't touch the bike for 10 days. Yeah. Um, I needed that because even the raise I did uh after unbound.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

I was I was just so tired. I always you were super tired after Tracker. I remember you when we did the race.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

That was that was more muscular, mechanic, mechanical stress, strain, load that I needed to recover from. Unbound was it's not so much, it wasn't so much the legs or the body, it was it was my head. I was super tired. And and I did the race the weekend after, uh, and I was good. Like I I I won and I was my legs, my body was working, but my head was just oh, here we go again. And uh I'm almost messed up the feet zone because I wasn't I just I just wasn't thinking straight. Uh I had a small crash uh around the corner uh because I didn't see what was in front of me, and I you know I just made some mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Um mentally tired, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

It was it was time to put the feet up and mentally but also physically just recover and and really have a good time to recover because I want to peek at world championships in in October. I want to be better at that point than I've been in the spring. So for that to happen, I also need to give my body some some proper rest and some proper recovery. And now I'm two days on the bike. It's nice to be back riding. I enjoy it. It's really hot here in Girona, but I'm back riding and I'm enjoying it and slowly getting back into that real focus mode with the diet and and everything that is needed to be be good and add another level to my physical performance. But you know, um I'm just happy that I took this kind of this proper rest and now training again.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

It's super smart. I'm glad that you did, and I'm glad you had the chance to rest the body and like you say, most importantly, rest the mind. It's great, it's great. I just have one last question for you because um well the question is w what's harder, track a 360 or unbound?

SPEAKER_00 39:30

I don't want to disappoint you Americans, but track a 360 is is harder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Um covered that in the other conversation, but just the demands of the client, the long clients, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

It hurts you more physically. Really hurts you a lot physically. Umbound is so much more steady. You go deep, of course, and you get tired, you get fatigued, and you also get to a point where you can't push any harder. But that point arrives quicker in Traka because in Traka you have these climbs where you have to push to get over them and to go fast over those climbs. So you you you dig deeper in Traka in different ways, that just hurts the body more, and then the terrain is also rougher, it's more of a full-body workout. Um, of course, Flint Hills, it is rough, and there are sharp rocks and and it gets chunky. Um but it is more like a road race than than than trackaries. Like track carries is getting closer to a mountain bike race where it's a full-body workout, it's proper full-body workout.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, yeah. And the and the and the terrain demands that you go deep. Whereas on a flat on a flatter course you can you can modulate if you want to, but when you're on a climb, the climb is is is determining it, it sounds like. Yeah. Okay, man. Well, hey, Matt, thanks so much for making the time. I know you're busy, you got the family, it's late over there, and Jorona. Really appreciate you making the time, sharing your thoughts, and doing what you're doing on the race course and doing what you're doing in the team. You know, so many of us are are inspired by what you're doing and really proud of what you're doing. And um, so congratulations, man. Keep it up.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Thank you. Thanks.