Within the Donut Hole: a Benoit Blanc podcast

Casting the Suspects: Our Dream Lineup for the Next Knives Out | Within the Donut Hole Podcast

• John Williams (No Relation) • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this chapter of Within the Donut Hole: a Benoit Blanc podcast, we step just outside the crime scene and into the casting office. We each draft five actors we believe would be perfect additions to the next Knives Out ensemble. Casting not by rumor or reporting, but by instinct for the unmistakable Rian Johnson vibe. From quiet intensity to legacy gravitas, we debate who belongs in Benoit Blanc’s next case. Before the speculation begins, I share the surreal real-world moment of meeting Rian Johnson and Nathan Johnson at Amoeba Records. Step within the donut hole.

@aknivesoutpod

SPEAKER_00

Greetings, illustrious detectives. Welcome to Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast. Join us as we investigate the case files of the beloved, groundbreaking cinematic mysteries created by Ryan Johnson. With a tip of the hat, we invite you into an in-depth and at times delightfully mysterious conversation exploring the world of Benoit Blanc. Each episode dives within the donut hole itself, unpacking Blanc's methods, monologues, and mysteries lurking beneath the surface of Knives Out, Class Onion, Wake Up Dead Man, and beyond, where the truth really sits at the center. It's a new golden age of Who Dunnits. This podcast is properly afoot.

SPEAKER_02

Greetings, illustrious detectives, and welcome back to Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast. The only place where we politely ignore the center of the mystery and head straight for the weird, wonderful edges. Today we are stepping slightly outside the crime scene and into the casting office, dreaming up who we think should populate the next Knives Out ensemble. Our knives are out, and the suspects are imaginary, and the donut hole is officially open. I am John Williams, and I am joined today by my partner in crime, Harris Thomas. Harris, what's happening? Doing well. What about you?

SPEAKER_01

What's going on in your world?

SPEAKER_02

Man, I'm just loving life. So, Harris, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_01

Dude, we're picking five dream castings.

SPEAKER_02

Thought up, who are five actors we love and would love to see more of, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Right. It's like I feel like with these movies, not only does everything involved in them get you intoxicated, but to me, it's it's the well, who's Ryan gonna pick next, right? Like I want to see all these people interact with each other. But but but hang on, hang on, hang on. Didn't you just recently have a brush with Knives Out Royalty? I don't know how we made it this far in and we haven't talked about it. Please.

SPEAKER_02

It was too much to process. So basically, I'm gonna pull back the curtain a little bit here, folks. You know, I had this idea for the podcast, and initially it was the idea came to me really in the middle of the whole marketing push, the excitement around Wake Up Dead Man. And I thought the best thing to do would be to wait for that to subside and then launch this podcast. Because this, you know, in the back of my mind, or deep within my mind, I suppose, the whole point of this podcast is the road to Knives Out 4. And to try to launch content, a channel, an Instagram, you know, all that in the middle of, you know, Wake Up Dead Man being in full flight just was more than I could bear. However, Amoeba had this wonderful event in the middle of January. It was basically a meet and greet of Ryan Johnson and Nathan Johnson, where you got to purchase, pre-purchase a beautiful mutant made, made by mutant, Eve's Apple, double vinyl soundtrack, and you got to meet Ryan and Nathan, and then they would obviously sign the soundtrack. So, what's interesting, again, I live in Palm Springs, the events in LA where I used to live, and you had to go to Amoeba to pre-purchase the ticket. And you got this really cool poster. And my girlfriend was like, let's just hop in the car and go. And I'm like, nah, something prevented us. We couldn't do it because of work. So I called up my friend Matt, laid a little guilt on him, and you know, to Matt's credit, he did something that no LA friend would ever do. Got in his car, drove to Amoeba, parked, and got the ticket for me.

SPEAKER_01

So we all need a Matt. We all need a Matt.

SPEAKER_02

I know. I know. Thank you, Matt. That was what it was one of the nicest things because you know, LA friends just don't do that sort of thing. So he got the ticket for me. And with that sharp deadline of January 14th, you know, thank God it happened because it it really motivated me to get this whole project off the ground. And, you know, I had a couple of weeks, if not less, and had to get all the collateral materials designed and went through two designers, found the right guy, obviously, Nick Dennis Design, who designed all these wonderful collateral pieces for us and logo and whatnot. Had to get you set up with the podcast mic, and then had to essentially write, create, record, and edit as many episodes as I could in about a week's time. And Harris, I'll tell you what, the day of the event, which started at four o'clock, I was, you know, tucked away at the Cat and Fiddle, which is an English pub, a historic English pub, on Highland that afternoon leading up to the event, editing the fourth episode. I mean, it was a, you know, a time crunch deadline. Gotta get it done. And here I am in this pub on a Wednesday afternoon, and they had a soccer football match on, surrounded by, you know, all these guys drinking in the afternoon, going crazy over this match. And I'm at the bar with the laptop and headphones on. A real LA moment. And I edited our fourth episode, you know, the Donut Hole Dispatch, and got it done just in time, you know, uploaded the episode, and then hopped in the car and started headed over to Amoeba. And to be quite honest with you, I was like thinking, what in God's name am I doing? You know, like this is crazy. So I get to Amoeba Park, they point to where the line is, and you know, I'm pretty close to the front, but you know, there were a lot of a lot of people there, enough people there, and then it got really full behind me. But Harris, it was all younger people, and it gave me hope for a bright future that, you know, this new generation of film fans was lined up waiting to get, you know, a let's say a deep, dark soundtrack signed by, you know, uh filmmakers. And I thought, God, it it warmed my heart.

SPEAKER_01

So it just you know, it just shows the the pull that Ryan Johnson has, right? Like it he connects with people, you know, my age and younger. It's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02

It really is. I didn't know, I thought I was gonna see a bunch of me. You know, you never know who you're gonna run into at these sort of events. So we get there, and now I had two beautiful front and back letters tailor-made, you know, specifically one for Ryan and one for Nathan. And each letter was different. They were, you know, each addressed to them personally. And one side of the invitation has our logo, which is the ginormous donut on a, you know, a canary yellow, bright yellow background. And, you know, having gone to events where there's signings before, you know, they were very this the security was there. They were really on top of it. You know, you can't hand them anything, you can't have anything else signed. You know, it was it was a well-oiled machine by Amoeba, rightfully so. I mean, you got people lined up off Hollywood Boulevard, right? You go down some steps and into the room, and right before you get to the table, you know, they had two women going, okay, you've got your record. Well, you know, you can't hand them anything else, you can't get anything else signed. Well, I'm holding these two, you know, bright yellow letters with, you know, donuts on it. And at this point, I kind of got them, you know, as best as I can tucked under my arm, which isn't really, you know, too concealing because yeah, because it's they're both just sticking out. It couldn't be any more obvious. So, but the interactions are good. I see, you know, they're making, you know, taking a moment with each, you know, fan and having a moment. And but there's a lot of people around the table, not just security, but I, you know, people just staring at you as you go to the table. It was almost like being in a fish bowl. And so it's my turn. I step up to the table and I immediately whip these two letters, you know, out of nowhere, like Bugs Bunny with like the bazooka, you know, all of a sudden he's got it.

SPEAKER_01

Somehow you made it out of there alive, also.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and I whip them out and I put them on the table, and I could just feel security and everyone kind of leaning in, like, come on, buddy. We, you know, we've we've told you a thousand times. And I just looked at both of them, they looked down at it and I said, Gentlemen, you have your first official, and then I stopped myself. I said, Excuse me, you have your first unofficial knives out podcast. And they both started to smile. And then Ryan looks down and sees the logo, and he goes, Oh, this is really cool. And, you know, I just sort of said, Hey, look, you know, just getting this this off the ground, just launching this podcast, really excited about it. And Ryan said, I will definitely listen to it. And then he opens it up, and you know, there's so much that it's the letter was fairly long and detailed, and he just opened it up for a second. And all in that one second where he opened it and closed it, he looks at me and he goes, John Williams, no relation. And then he starts to laugh. And if there's one thing Ryan Johnson's known for, it's you know, that laugh of his. I mean, I think there's there's all kinds of, you know, reels and clips on IG of, you know, Ryan burst out laughing. And it kind of, he's looking at me, and you know, I'm sitting there going, like, you know, this is so surreal to have in the last couple of weeks put together, you know, I've spent a lot of time, I mean, a lot of time, you know, putting this podcast together. And to have Ryan Johnson look at me, say my name, and burst out laughing was like, you know, holy shit. Like this is surreal, man.

SPEAKER_01

Surreal.

SPEAKER_02

It was so surreal, and Nathan was just sort of sitting there smiling. And I my comeback was, you know, I wish I had John Williams's talent and his checkbook. And then they and then they both just started laughing, and that's exactly what Ryan said. He goes, Me too. And then he kind of slammed down the letter, patted it on with his hand, and said, I will definitely listen to it. And I said, Thanks, guys, for everything. And then stepped to the side of the table, took a few steps, and went, Holy shit, I just met Ryan and Nathan Johnson and got in the car, started to drive back to Palm Springs in that wonderful 101 traffic. And it just, I mean, imagine this. You do, let's say, a Star Wars podcast, and within a few days of launching it, within minutes of getting the most recent episode live, you meet George Lucas and John Williams.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02

It it I it just it was so exciting. And and uh, and I think about you know, anything I've ever in life achieved or have gotten, I'm a big believer in asking. I ask all the time. Most of the time you hear no, but when you do hear yes, it's pretty amazing. I stepped to Ryan and Nathan Johnson with a podcast that only had four episodes live with an Instagram that had maybe six followers. I mean, the sheer burvato.

SPEAKER_01

Two of which were uh yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like the sheer burvato of step and and inviting Ryan and Nathan Johnson to a podcast with four episodes and a you know half a dozen followers, I think is hysterical. So, Ryan and Nathan, if you're listening, that invitation obviously still stands.

SPEAKER_01

Please.

SPEAKER_02

But it was so cool, it was such a rush, and it was just, I don't know, it was so exciting. And I will say this that that day was the first day that I ever posted, you know, anything to stories. And it was about the event. It was about the the podcast launch in the event. I mean, I only had what, like four or five posts, and I looked at this the first ever story post and I looked to see, well, who's who's seen it? And it was you, my girlfriend, and Nathan Johnson.

SPEAKER_01

There's a there's a trio.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, imagine you just launched a Star Wars podcast, it's your co-host, it's your girlfriend, and it's John Williams. I think that's called quits. It was so cool, man. And you know, when I did put down the the letters, because I did post a picture of the letters prior to walking into the event from the pub, and I tagged Nathan in it and he saw it. So Nathan was kind of looking at me, going, Oh, it's this guy, you know, like it's the guy who's launching the podcast. That was the look he was giving me. So it was really cool. I I debated on whether or not to talk about it. So I'm glad you mentioned it. And, you know, I think it's the perfect segue into today's episode.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I mean, I I my my favorite thing about the entire experience is the you cannot do anything other than give them this vinyl. You cannot do anything but this vinyl. And what do you do? Hand them something else. That's the most John Williams example of you that I know. And I love it.

SPEAKER_02

It is my personality.

SPEAKER_01

It's like one of the blue-collar comedy comedians, Ron White, used to have a joke. He's at the bank, and his dogs need to go to the bathroom, and he said, There's there's a sign over here where the only grass is, it says no dogs. So I took my dogs over there. That's it. That's the most j that's what you did. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

And I mean, you could feel people close in on me when I pulled something from out of nowhere. And and what the one what was probably the coolest moment of the experience is I was driving home and you know, I was in standstill traffic, and I checked Instagram, and then when I opened the show's IG, there was a post, a reel created by Amoeba about the event. Now, my encounter with N Ryan and Nathan is not in there, but what's really cool is they were sitting at a very small black table, and throughout the entire reel, the only thing sitting next to them was the letter slash invitations.

SPEAKER_01

It's pretty awesome. If you haven't seen it, do do check out our Instagram. We've got a cool, cool reel up that Amoeba did, and it's pretty cool. You know, it's pretty awesome seeing seeing that awesome logo just sitting there for everybody.

SPEAKER_02

Just sitting next to the elbows of the writer, director of the and composer of the franchise. I mean, that's this is not a bad place to start, Harris. Um, real quickly, definitely want to give a big thank you to Amoeba. Funny enough, I sent Amoeba a message saying, Hey, can I download this reel and post it to our IG? And they quickly responded, absolutely. Thank you for being the first person to ever ask. And also want to give a big shout out to Mutant, to Made by Mutant, for the Eve's Apple vinyl. It's come it's completely awesome. So, Mo, we want to get you on the show for sure. And with that, guys, let's start talking about our picks for the next knives out film. Essentially, if we were casting today, who would walk into the interrogation room? And Harris, it's not lost on me. How generous of us to suggest casting for a film that has not been written, that has not, you know, been put into production. I mean, I think this is very awfully kind of us, right?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I to nice name a nicer thing that's ever been done, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, but how generous. We're experts here. Let's set the rules. Both Harris and myself have chosen five actors that we'd love to see in the next Knives Out film. Now, Harris doesn't know my picks. I don't know Harris' picks, so this ought to be interesting. Um, essentially, actors that we love, that we would love to see more of, that we feel would be great actors that would, you know, fit into the ensemble chemistry uh of the Nye's out film. And let's just get into it, man. Let's do it. Um I'm excited to see what she said. Yeah, likewise. I'm gonna let you go first.

SPEAKER_01

All right. First one. And I I I did this in no particular order. I just kind of wrote down a bunch of names, uh thought about it some more, wrote some more down, and then kind of dwindled it down to the five. And let me tell you, it was really hard. Tough things we do here on this podcast. All right, number one, Colin Farrell.

SPEAKER_02

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I like it. His resurgence in his career from being starring in the Batman playing the penguin, that penguin show, more for me. If you haven't seen the TV show Sugar, the LA detective noir that he did on Apple TV, I'm not going to spoil anything, but it might be one of the best shows I've seen in a long time with one of the best shock value turns that you're not expecting. So what do you think? How do you think about Colin Farrell?

SPEAKER_02

He's one of my favorite actors of all time. I think he's one of the best actors of my generation. Colin and I are pretty much the same age. I think if you right now said, I need your your your favorite top five films of this century, I would put in Michael Mann's Miami Vice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I just, that's a movie that I blew me away. Like I physically felt something, went to see it on a Saturday, went to see it again on a Sunday. So I've I if Colin Farrell's in it, I don't care what it is, I'm gonna go see it. And without going in into any details, I used to work somewhere when I lived in LA, and Colin used to come into this place, and I got to chat with him, and he's probably the coolest guy I've ever met in my life.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

He just he's a star and he's just cool, the the nicest guy ever. So I think that is a huge choice. In Bruges, you know, getting sober, and then the career he's had after after the fact. I can watch anything like bad Colin Farrell, uh you know, SWAT, I'm in. It doesn't matter. Like, you know, he's he can do comedy, you know, he can do characters, he can do, you know, dreamy leaning man.

SPEAKER_01

You know, he he was in horrible bosses, and you you know, he's all like done up in that. Yeah, he always does these cool costumes and stuff. It it's amazing to see him just dive into a character.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to have the fun Colin Farrell has. And then to have the career after he had the fun. Like it's it's I think one of the great Hollywood stories.

SPEAKER_01

I just think Ryan could write something for him to just, you know, just chew on and just and have a blast doing it.

SPEAKER_02

Totally.

SPEAKER_01

Hey man, what about you?

SPEAKER_02

That's a great call. All right. So my first choice is Hayden Christensen. All right, now hear me out. Hayden Christensen is to me is a fascinating casting choice for the Knives Out film because he brings this quiet interior energy. He never overplays anything. Now we all know him from Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, but if you watch one of his first films called Life is a House, it was the film that George Lucas saw that said, This is the guy that needs to play the transition from, you know, young teen to Darth Vader. And he also did a film called Shattered Glass, which, if you haven't seen, you should totally see about a real person named Stephen Glass who wrote all these fictitious articles for a highly regarded political magazine. And my girlfriend is a super Hayden Christensen fan, to put it mildly. We have met Hayden Christensen on several occasions. And he's when you're when you're talking to him and he's looking at you, I've never met anyone that gives you his undivided attention the way he gives you his attention. He's never been given the chance that I I think he fully deserves. And there's something really deep going on behind his eyes. You know, I don't know if it's, you know, he's it's regret or he's got this restraint, or it's, you know, there's in the history, life history, but I just feel that he'd be a character you don't quite clock at first, and then slowly realize that he might be the most important person in the room. I mean, you don't know whether he's light side or dark side.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

But and I've never, I've never like his sort of popularity now that the prequel generation are adults is through the roof. Whoever his agent or manager is, like, I don't know why he's not on like CSI Toronto or something. People are so locked into the whole Star Wars thing that you're uh an opportunity to witness an incredible actor is being missed. So I just feel like I could see him in a role in Knives Out, not unlike maybe Jer the role that Jeremy Renner had in Wake Up Dead Man. Right. So I'm flying the Hayden Christensen fan big time. And yeah, that that's the first person I think of when I think of casting the next Knives Out.

SPEAKER_01

Man, I love it. I I mean I I just he was I just always thought he was so good in Revenge of the Sith. Maybe for me, it was the, you know, if for me it was my favorite one of the of the of the prequels. I think it just hit me at the right time, right age, all that, and just, you know, I loved it, all the action. I just, you know, I thought it, I thought he did a great job. You know, maybe some of the writing is a little weird here and there, but he, as the actor, I thought he did a great job throughout that whole transition going on in that movie. So uh totally strong call at a left field, though, I think for most people listening to this, which is fun. It's cool.

SPEAKER_02

That that that's it. And we would, you know, the I forget what anniversary it was, but they just released last year Revenge of the Sith in the theater. It was packed, people were going crazy, girls were screaming, you know, and like I said, he's he's got something, and I I I want so badly to see the next step in his career. So that's my that's my number one draft pick.

SPEAKER_01

I like it. What about you? What's up next? All right, we're gonna switch gears. I'm going Viola Davis. I think, I mean, I think talk about a force to be reckoned with. I feel like in all three of these Knives Out movies, we have that one character whose personality just stands out amongst the rest. The one you don't want to pick an argument with, and if you do, you certainly are not gonna win. I think Viola Davis is is is exactly the type of energy we need now after these first three. I mean, obviously famous in from the Suicide Squad and just kind of her demeanor there, but also, you know, Fences. I think of Fences a few years ago with Denzel. She was in night and day. I mean, she did all kinds of stuff, right? Like, I mean, are you familiar with Viola?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I am, yeah. I first saw her in Soderbergh's out of sight. She had a small role, did an incredible job, but I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, playing Michael Jordan's mother. Um Yeah, in air. Which was and I guess Michael Jordan, you know, when Ben and Matt were trying to get blessings, Michael Jordan said, I have only one condition, and that's that she plays my Yeah, that's awesome. So she is, and you're right. I mean, these films work best when there's a strong woman. Jamie Lee comes to mind. Um, you know, Glenn Close, obviously. So that's a really good call.

unknown

Cool.

SPEAKER_02

Really good call. All right. My next actor is someone that you might not have heard of her. Her name is uh Micah Munro. Do you know who Micah Munro is?

SPEAKER_01

I do not. I'm looking up right now.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. She she's best known recently for a film called Long Legs. And speaking of Jamie Lee Curtis, she's been in a series of horror genre films recently that a lot of, you know, the critics have praised lower budget films. She just did a film called Long Legs. And if you haven't seen Long Legs, I mean, I saw it in a theater and I walked out and was like, what? I mean, it it completely blew my mind. And I was familiar with her because I had first seen her in a film called It Follows, which without giving anything away, it's basically a horror film where a killer comes after you after you've had sex. Interesting. And it gets passed along to the last person you had sex with. It it is, I mean, I watched it just sort of threw it on one night, and you know, I was like, this is this is the new John Carpenter, whoever made this film. So then she was also in another great film called Watcher, which if you haven't seen, you need to see. So there are three films that I've seen her in. First, It Follows, then Watcher, then Long Legs. And she is just incredible. And from what I can tell in real life, she's this sort of Santa Barbara, you know, blonde, you know, very cute girl. Um, and she plays this sort of character, these characters that how do I describe it? Like she's just so sharp and grounded, slightly off-center in the best way. I've never seen an actress who can play sincerity without innocence, you know, without toughness, without bravado. She's incredibly straightforward. And, you know, I just think in in modern night in the modern knives out world, she could, you know, quietly pull the rug out from under you. And you need that she's someone that you wouldn't see coming. Again, not unlike Hayden, you know, which which direction, you know, is this actor? Who is this character? Like she could play it beautifully. So check out those three films by Micah Monroe, and I cannot wait to watch her incredible career blossom further.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I gotta tell you, I did not know her at all and have not seen any of her move movies. So I don't know how she is as an actress, but I can tell you from looking at her letterbox profile, I'm a huge fan. Huge fan. Yeah. Huge fan already.

SPEAKER_02

Um Harris, watch what don't look it up, don't read about it. Throw on long legs at night, pour yourself a cocktail and throw on long legs, put your phone in the other room on silent and give it your undivided attention. You better better hang on to yourself, man. I I would I would say it's your generation's silence of the lambs.

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Only weirder and scarier.

SPEAKER_01

Fantastic. Because if only Silence of the Lambs wasn't weirder or yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I I know. I mean, this like I this is gonna sound weird, but like I went to I went to the you know, bathroom right after, and a random guy I don't know looked at me and started talking about the film while we were both taking a piss. And I was going, yeah, I know man, that was pretty weird. I don't know, it just got weirder right now. But uh, you know, it was one of those movies. Yeah, just to put things in perspective. So all right, who you who's up next for you?

SPEAKER_01

All right, I think this one for me, out of all of them, I think is maybe the more obscure one. But I think for those that have seen this actor's work, they'll know exactly what I'm talking about. But my number three is Billy Cruttup. Billy, um, for those of you who might not know or recognize his name, I think you would recognize his face uh in a heartbeat. He was, you know, Tom Cruise's boss in Mission Impossible 3, who ended up being the, you know, spoiler alert villain. He's big right now on the morning show on Apple TV with Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon. I just think he is, he's one of these actors, like character actors that I feel that just when he's on screen, I can never get enough of him. I just love his expressions. I love his I love his voice. Like he's just he's got this like, I don't know, radio voice too, but yet he's an actor. I just he I love his work. I really do. He was in all the recent Zack Snyder uh Justice League movies as Barry Allen The Flash's father. I also remember him from Public Enemies, you know, another, you know, another good uh Michael Mann. Johnny Depp, Michael Mann. I just I just think he's like he could be the fun, whimsical character in the next Ryan Johnson film. Uh I just, you know, uh he could he does everything, but I just think that fun, whimsical kind of, you know, you almost feel like he did, you know, he's got a problem, you know, a white powdery problem. Like you just feel like he's always on something.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's something underneath him. Like, you know, you kind of don't know. He's like the Bruce Dern of your generation. You don't know what's going on, you don't know what he's gonna do next.

SPEAKER_01

But something is gonna happen. Yeah. And you're waiting for it. And the fun time is that sometimes it never happens. At least it never happens in the scene or whatnot. So yeah, I just I just love Billy Credit. I think he's a great actor and would love to kind of, you know, I just think his stardom also has just been on the rise after the success of the morning show. And very curious to see what he's got coming up next.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he's he's fantastic. He elevates anything that he's in. I the first time I saw him was in an almost famous. He played the guitar player. I think it was a role that was originally written by Cameron Crow for Brad Pitt. And then correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't he in The Watchman?

SPEAKER_01

He was, yep.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That was kind of the next time I saw him. So that's a strong call.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's like uh he's one of Zack Snyder's kind of like go-to guys, I think. He's pretty much in all of his films, and you know, he was in trying to remember the he was in he was with uh he was in Jay Kelly recently with uh Adam Sandler and uh Clooney.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Popular with the ladies, I imagine. Probably so. Well, strong call. So next up, now I've no I noticed a trend that I'm sure is unintentional on Ryan Johnson's part. But he has cast in Glass Onion and Wake Up Dead Man two actors who appeared in alongside of Daniel Craig and Spectre. We've got Dave Batista and Andrew Scott, both who were in Spectre. So it got me thinking, all right, if we're gonna continue down this road, who from Spectre would I choose to be in the next knives out? And the clear winner is Ben Witshaw, who played Q in Daniel's uh three-run Skyfall Spectre, no time to die. And the chemistry between Daniel Craig and Ben Witshaw is off the charts. I mean, Ben Witshaw is almost like a walk. I I read I read about him somewhere and someone described him as a walking nervous system. And I was like, that's a huge compliment. I mean, he's brilliant obviously at playing intelligent, more so intelligence under pressure. He's polite, articulate, you know, and deeply comfortable. I think he would be the character in Knives Out, almost like a Steve Bushimi character that just talks too much, um, but still somehow tells you absolutely nothing. I mean, obviously, the first time we met Ben Witshaw was in Skyfall, where Q is introduced, and I think that probably will go down as one of the greatest Bond scenes in the entire series of films. It is perfectly shot. The dialogue is perfectly written and performed, and I would love to see Q and Benoit Blanc go at it, right?

SPEAKER_01

It's kind of like uh him and Jeffrey Wright, right? In Wake Up Dead Man. It's just kind of like nice.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, there's another one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You know, but it just kind of it would it would be incredible for a lot of people, obviously a lot of Bond fans, but to see Q and Bond back on the screen together, especially kind of where their chemistry kind of like ended in No Time to Die, like just where they they were, they're just they're perfect together on screen. Strong call, really strong call.

SPEAKER_02

This would be a great question for Ryan. He's obviously not shying away from, well, he's a great actor, but he was just in so-and-so Bond film. You know, he's obviously bringing in people from those films. I mean, I imagine it's because they're right for the part above all, but you know, he's bringing in people that I I imagine he saw acting with Daniel and thought, wow, that's great. Let's let's get a little bit more of that. So that's where I'm at. What's up next with you?

SPEAKER_01

Like it. All right. So I kind of went that route, but not really. But you'll see what I mean in a second. So I did pick up obviously on the Bond connection there of Spectre and you know, with Andrew Scott and everybody kind of in the last few movies. So I went a little bit different direction because to me, I said, who else in the Bond world recently alumni has really kind of had a career resurgence? And I'm I'm I'm going with Michelle Yo with after everything at all at once and her success there and winning the Oscar and you know, all that. I just give me more Michelle Yeo always. Big fan of Tomorrow Never Dies, big fan of you know her work. She was she's been in Wicked, she's been in, you know, Gardens of the Galaxy, that thing was like the second one. So I'm a big fan of Michelle Yeo, and I think she would again I think she would at you know, you did did you see her in uh A Haunting in Venice?

SPEAKER_02

Loved it. Absolutely loved it. I thought she stole the movie.

SPEAKER_01

Let's get a little bit of that energy, you know, that little dark, sinister, you know, kind of in that Glen Coast area, but let's let's let's I don't know. I I think it would be amazing to watch, and I think obviously she's she could easily do it and probably kill it. And she might kind of be like uh you're you know, Mika Monroe, right? Like kind of that uh you just don't know what's all behind the behind the curtains.

SPEAKER_02

I there's a sort of an sophistication and intelligence about Michelle Yo that I find extremely sexy. I just think she's there's something about that woman that I on screen I'm like, here's here's a woman who's getting the job done. So I think you're right, she would just fit perfectly into the knives out universe. I love it. I did not see that one coming.

SPEAKER_01

See, there you go. I put in some effort with trying to think, trying to think hard. Yeah, just pick up.

SPEAKER_02

Definitely another bond connection for sure.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, next on my list is Uma Thurman. Oh. Now, I gotta imagine Uma's been off raising a family, enjoying her life as she should. She's on the most recent season of Dexter, and she is so good. And I just, I need more Uma. I mean, talk about my generation, Pulp Fiction, Kill Bill, like where is Uma? We need more Uma. And the first movie I ever saw her in, which was a great little in a thriller who done it, called Jennifer 8 with Andy Garcia. If you haven't seen that movie, it's a, it's a, it's a really good film. And I remember walking out of that theater and I saw it in New York City, and walked out of the theater onto the streets and thought, wow, she's lovely. She was also great in a movie called Beautiful Girls. Ted Demi film that's kind of a rom-com, but it's it's it's great. First time I ever saw Natalie Portman as well in that film. It was a good day for you. Yeah, yes, it was. Um, so you know, to me, Uma Thurman is pure cinematic authority, right? She walks into a room and the movie just sort of, I don't know, adjusts itself around her. She's warm, terrifying, hilarious. And I feel like in the knives out world, she would be old money. You know, buried secrets, and a lifetime of sharp dinner table conversation with every line that she delivers. It just she's she's got it. And I just think her sort of sly, you know, witticism would match perfectly with Benoit Blanc. I think she could go toe-to-toe with all that.

SPEAKER_01

I totally agree. Totally agree. A um one of my good friends that works with me lives in Woodstock, New York, and there's a small, like little local, you know, theater called the Tinker Street Cinema, and they just had a he goes to it all the time. And I had no idea. I think you just recently saw, right, Kill Bill 1 and 2, right, the long bloody affair together. I have not had the opportunity to see it like that, but my buddy, he was doing it, and he had no idea, or at least he didn't tell me, then all of a sudden he sends me a picture and it's Uma Thurman introducing the the the one whole movie and in Woodstock. And she's like dressed up as the character. No Yeah, oh a hundred percent. I'll send it to you after it too. Oh man. And I mean, it she looks great, also. I mean, she always has.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, she looks fantastic, you know.

SPEAKER_01

But I just let's get her back. I mean, she's acting again, right? Like you said, with the most recent season of Dexter. Ryan, make the phone call, please. I know. Can you just on behalf of everyone on the BFC?

SPEAKER_02

That just works. That just works. And again, how how generous of us to cast the film that Ryan is yet to even agree to write.

SPEAKER_01

Correct. And I I I I I only ask in return, you know, maybe a ticket or two. That's the only thing I'm asking for.

SPEAKER_02

And then it's moving with intent on this podcast. Yes, yes, we are. I want to I want to be at something next time around.

SPEAKER_01

I want to be clear. You can pay me, but I don't need the money.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, getting back to the asking thing, Brian, make no mistake about it. We want to participate in something somehow next time. So we're here to build this thing, keep it going in the meantime. Absolutely. All right, how are you gonna close this out?

SPEAKER_01

Oh man. All right, well, I got one. I got one I think we're gonna do. I think I think it's gonna go well. So it snowed a few weeks ago, and I have a rule in life, and that is I only watch one particular movie when it snows. I know. So I don't watch it any other time. I only watch it when it snows. And so it snowed, and by that logic, we watched this movie. And this guy, I will give you that hint, this this guy stands out in that movie more than anybody else, shocking enough. And we just recently watched The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. And that is Mr. Stellan Skarsgaard.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. That's funny you say that because he he when I was writing the list down, he was on there. And when I asked my girlfriend Nellie, Who she said Bill, Bill Skarsgard. She called him creepy hot. Oh man. I you know I that's an incredible call. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_01

I know Daniel is the star of that movie, but Stellan sticks out to me over everybody else. And again, I maybe I just have a thing for what I call. I mean, I know he's not a character actor, but I think I kind of put him in that Billy Crutup, you know, kind of world of like you're just kind of obsessed with him when he's on screen and you just want to hear him talk and you want to hear him act and watch him act. And so, you know, obviously, you know, he was he was popular in the Pirates movies, and uh, of course, seen it more recently with Dune and Dune part two. And just an incredible actor. Again, talk about a force. I feel like with mine, I've been kind of going for I want like just a bunch of forces in a room. Get around the dinner table and like let's have a meal with Viola Davis and Billy Cruttup and Stellan Skarsgaard. Like, can you imagine what that conversation is like? So that's how I'm gonna end it with my five, is with Mr. Skarsgard himself. I think it's a pretty strong call, honestly. I'm biased.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he's he's he out acts everyone. You put him in a scene and it's over. And, you know, I've recently been exploring my Swedish heritage. I found out where I'm from in Sweden, my family's from, and I've been going down that rabbit hole. And, you know, he's one of Sweden's finest. And he was a child act actor, actually. The first time I ever saw him was in The Hunt for Red October. Yeah. He he plays the Russian that goes after Connery. And then where I think most of you know, especially in America, you know, what pushed him onto the world stage was Goodwill hunting. Yeah. This is when everyone got hip to him. But he's so good that uh it's hard to put into words.

SPEAKER_01

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02

He's incredible. That that leads me into my last choice. And because Stellan is in the conversation for what my idea is for Knives Out 4. I've got the greatest idea ever for Knives Out 4. And here's my little daydream is is that we get Ryan on the show, and I'm gonna tell Ryan, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna tell you what this idea is. And if you say, cut this out of the episode, because that idea is too good, I'll cut it out and the world will never know what I said. And I was gonna talk about it today, but I'm gonna show some restraint. But in my pitch, my idea to Ryan for Knives Out for Stellan Skarsgard to play this one very important character is in the conversation. And my last pick is in that treatment as well, and it can only be one man, and it's Michael Cain. And what will be announced as Michael Cain's final performance? It's a small role that happens towards the end of the film, and he plays Benoit Blanc's father. So what is Michael Caine bringing to the table? Legacy, the casting at its absolute finest. I mean, Michael Cain brings warmth, intelligence, anger. No one gets no one gets pissed off like Michael Cain. And he Michael can be, it's incredible to me, he can be in the worst film ever. Yet he's his his very presence makes it entertaining. I love 70s disaster films, and it goes beyond the Poseidon adventure, it goes beyond the Towering Inferno. I mean, the worst film, like the the subgenre B movie, BB movie version of the Towering Inferno is where I'm at. And there's one in particular called The Swarm, where Attack of Killer Bees descends on Earth and Michael Caine's gotta stop them. Now, think about that as a premise of a film. I mean, it's so bad, but when Michael Cain shows up and gets pissed off, it's the best entertainment one could possibly hope for. The other night I finally got to the Andromeda Strain, and it is so dry and kind of drawn out and a lot of talking. And I'm thinking, if Michael Cain was in the Andromeda strain, you'd have one of the best films ever. So I just feel like there's an unmistakable sense that Michael has lived in the Knives Out World prior to ever starring in the Knives Out World. Michael Cain in Knives Out has got to be done.

SPEAKER_01

Take my money right now. Like, can we make this happen?

SPEAKER_02

I know. I cannot wait to talk about this idea. It's so good. And at the very least, I think Ryan will laugh.

SPEAKER_01

Well, but I mean, as I as I turn my head and look at, I have a framed photo, a famous photo of Michael Cain back during when he was playing Harry Palmer by David Bailey and he's got his glasses and he's smoking a cigarette. Um I just, you know, Michael Cain is one of those films.

SPEAKER_02

Damn, man. That is like talk about when it snows out. Like, you know, you throw on Ip Chris Phile, you know, funeral in Berlin, and Billion Dollar Brain, and you got one of the great knives of your life.

SPEAKER_01

Well, speaking of that, so last year.

SPEAKER_02

Because I said knives, you got one of the great nights of your life. Sorry. I said knives. You know what? You got you know what? I stand corrected. I I'll go with my first pitch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Still works. I mean the Museum of Modern Art um did a Michael Cain tribute last fall. So it was pretty much every day they were playing 35 millimeter prints of his entire career. The the A's, the B's, the C's, and the ones that should never have been made. Um and so I had the distinct pleasure of actually getting to see all three Harry Palmer films starting at 2 o'clock and going through all of them and you know, over the rest of that day and evening. And so Michael Cain is just, again, one of these people that you're just drawn to in everything that he does. He's such a likable human being, he's a likable character in everything that he does, even if it's as bad as pulp or the But it's still good that you can watch it. Yeah, you still want to watch it. You want to watch it. You want to see how can Michael Cain save this train wreck from crashing? And somehow it still crashes, yet Michael Cain's the only one that survives. So let's get it. I mean, I can we start that campaign? Is that like a is that a hashtag? Like, can we start a hashtag Michael Cain knives out for? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Um I I know. I'll I'll empty my bank account. Now, Michael's the man I've I've listened to several of his biographies because he reads them. And I really dialed in or jumped on the Michael Cain train, went deep on Michael. There was a film in the early 90s or in the mid-90s, I suppose, that Nicholson put together with writer-director Bob Rafelson. I think it's Bob Rafelson, called Blood and Wine. And it's a modern-day noir thriller set in Miami. And Michael was living in Miami, owned restaurants in Miami, and was retired. And Jack Nicholson went to him and said, Look, I need you to play this role because everyone kind of knows you as the cuddly guy now, but no one gets mad like you. And he got Michael Cain out of retirement. And it's true, whenever Michael Cain gets pissed off, it's something special. Yeah. So there you go, folks. Those are our 10 choices of actors that we feel would be perfect in the Knives Out films. So, Ryan, if you're listening, give us a call. Feel free to reach out, man. Come on, you know? And I think what we need to do here is we need to give credit where credit is due. And, you know, Knives Out was cast by Mary Varneux and one of her colleagues, Brett Howe. And I apologize to you both if I've mispronounced your name. They were working out of the Betty Mae casting office for the first Knives Out. And I think that there won should be an award, more awards for casting. And I think that the casting that's been done in the Knives Out films is a masterclass. I mean, I think of this century, if not ever, we're we're we're witnessing the best casting of any films ever.

SPEAKER_01

Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_02

So Mary, Brett, we'd love to have you on the show. I'm gonna tag you on the IG. And with that, want to thank everyone for tuning in. If you've enjoyed the show, please hit the subscribe button. We'd love a little review, one condition, make them good. And I'm so excited for what we have next. Harris, thanks.

SPEAKER_01

Dude, this has been great. Yeah, no, uh great to be talking knives out as always. And you know, got my appetite pretty wet for the next one.

SPEAKER_02

I know. A lot of films, a lot of films to check out.

SPEAKER_01

I'm glad we did this. Enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02

All right, we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_00

And so, dear detectives, we close the case for now. Thank you for joining us within the doughnut hole. We hope our investigation sheds new light on Benoit Blanc's peculiar brilliance and the beloved mysteries crafted by Ryan Johnson. If you enjoyed today's inquiry, consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing the case with a fellow sleuth. Your support keeps the mystery alive and the conversation delightfully afoot. This has been Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast.