Films That Inspire Rian Johnson: Evil Under the Sun - Murder on Vacation

Sun, sand, and a perfectly constructed murder.

This week on Within the Donut Hole, we break down Evil Under the Sun, one of Agatha Christie’s most elegant films. With Hercule Poirot at the center, we explore how a seemingly simple timeline becomes a masterclass in direction, score, script, casting, cinematography, editing, costume design, and locations.

From airtight alibis to carefully hidden truths, this is classic cinematic detective storytelling at its finest and a fascinating blueprint for our modern-day sleuth Benoit Blanc.

And yes, the tray of unidentifiable cocktails and the mysterious cheese with cherries will be discussed.

@aknivesoutpod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Greetings, illustrious detectives. Welcome to Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast. Join us as we investigate the case files of the beloved, groundbreaking cinematic mysteries created by Ryan Johnson. With a tip of the hat, we invite you into an in-depth and at times delightfully mysterious conversation exploring the world of Benoit Blanc. Each episode dives within the donut hole itself, unpacking Blanc's methods, monologues, and mysteries lurking beneath the surface of Knives Out, Class Onion, Wake Up Dead Man, and Beyond, where the truth really sits at the center. It's a new golden age of Who Dunnits. This podcast is properly afoot.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Let me ask you something. If you were gonna commit a murder, would you do it on vacation? Not just any vacation. I'm talking sun, sand, cocktails, linen outfits, and a light breeze. Because that's exactly what happens in evil under the sun. A place so beautiful, so relaxing, so aggressively British in its leisure that naturally someone has to die and not just die, but die in a way where everyone has an alibi and everyone has a motive and everyone is just slightly too well dressed to be trusted. And into this perfectly curated chaos walks a man who does not sweat, who does not rush, and absolutely does not tolerate disorder. Hercule Poirot. Today we are stepping outside of the donut hole to examine the original movie architects of the mystery itself. Because before Blanc, there was Poirot, and today we're putting him under the sun. Now, folks, this is where some of that beautiful music would cue in, but for copyright reasons, we are gonna forego. And I was gonna hum some of it, but it's really early, so you know that's a whole different kind of evil. Welcome back, illustrious detectives, to Within the Donut Hole, a show where we don't just watch mysteries, we step inside them, pull them apart, and figure out what makes them tick. And today we're going classic. We're talking the 1982 masterpiece, Evil Under the Sun, Agatha Christie, Glamorous Suspects, and one of the cleanest, smartest alibi constructions you'll ever see. And of course, we're always asking the question why are we here? And what does it tell us about Benoit Blanc? Hello, everybody. I am your co-host, John Williams, and I am, as always, joined by my good friend Harris Thomas. Harris, say hello.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Hello. Can I offer you a pipe and some tobacco? Anyone? Exactly. Just don't light it.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Well, we are back, Harris, and I think that it what we're we have to start with this film as our our you know first exposure to this film. And I think it couldn't be any more polar opposite between myself and you. So tell me, when did you first learn of Evil Under the Sun and when did you first watch Evil Under the Sun?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So I think I learned about Evil Under the Sun after the recent remake, right, of Murder on the Orient Express, when I went back and I knew there was an original Agatha Christie, you know, with Peter Ustinov and, you know, Connery and all of that. And then ultimately made a list of all those films to watch and never watched them. And so here we are. That was when I first learned about it several years ago. And then as of yesterday, and a little bit more this morning, I watched it for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

So you're just seeing this film.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Brand spanking new. That's incredible. I knew of it here in New York City over at the Paris Theater, the Netflix Theater. They, you know, they'll do cool summertime series. And last year, they did Evil Under the Sun in 35mm, and kind of kicking myself in the rear end right now that I didn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Oh. I almost wish you would have just lied.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

You know. You know, like uh like a little Sunday afternoon, walk around Central Park, stroll into the Paris at like 11 in the morning and watch a little 35 millimeter of this with some popcorn. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Oh, that would have been incredible to see it on the big screen. I I would absolutely love that. Now, the Paris Theater is where you first saw Wake Up Dead Man, and correct me if I'm wrong, had the opportunity kind of in the back hallway to meet Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, yeah, it's all connected, isn't it? The Paris Theater is a fantastic place. If anybody's in New York, do do go and try to check out a movie there. But yes, got to see uh one of the premieres through a mutual friend of ours that's done a lot for me. And yeah, we got to see it there with the folks from Netflix, and I got a chance to speak with Ryan for just a quick little bit. And yeah, it's definitely something I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

I you've got a great photo with them, and it just dawned on me, you gotta send that to me so I can get that up on the IG. I think that's definitely IG worthy. As that was going down, I believe I was walking into the killbill, and that's seeing that photo, I think would have been the first kind of, hey, wait a minute, why am I not there? And how can I get there? You know, how can I get invited to one of these? And then that led to me going, Well, what happens if we create a podcast? So that was that was really cool. So they they played kind of a series of films at the Paris Right that were the sort of films that inspired Ryan Johnson or inspired Knives Out, correct?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Correct. Yeah. I wish I had that list in front of me because that there was a whole thing going on that week. And then leading up to it, they were playing, you know, Original Knives Out, then Glass Onion, followed by Wake Up Dead Man, which talk about a you know a midnight trilogy.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Oh, that's incredible. I'm gonna I'm considerably older than Harris. And when I was a young man, and this was we had bicycles, we didn't have iPads, I'm I'm definitely Generation X and and was of an age, the same age as those kids from Stranger Things. And there's such a revival or uh thirst for the nostalgia of my generation, rightfully so, because when you look at like the films that came out in the 80s, it was incredible. They're still remaking those films today. And we had this thing called cable vision, and it was this black box or brown box that you would hook up to your television, and it gave you more channels than you could get with freaking rabbit ears, and it was revolutionary. You could have more than like, you know, six channels, and then you could buy premium channels, and HBO was one of those premium channels. Now, back then there wasn't uh cajillion movies, so when you got the premium channel, they would only show a handful of movies and they'd show them like three times a day. Evil under the sun was one of those movies. So from a pretty young age, once it hit HBO, I mean, I must have watched this movie 30 times. And it was kind of the first film that I remember seeing that was not Star Wars or it wasn't, I don't know, inappropriate Clint Eastwood movies. You know, I mean, I don't know how many times they showed Outlaw Josie Wales, but God knows, that was another one Escape from New York, The Road Warrior, all these incredible movies. But Evil Under the Sun, and I just remember being a young boy and just watching this movie repeatedly, and I was just captivated by it that everyone was just so beautiful, so suspicious, kind of wealthy, miserable, and definitely hiding something. It was captured by the cinematography, the music, the wardrobe, the clothing, the exotic location. And it definitely was the first time that I was exposed to here's a cast of characters in ensemble. You know, it wasn't someone necessarily being a star. So I've always loved it. And I always kind of wondered, is it just me who enjoyed this, or is there, you know, people out there who I don't know, does this movie have legs? So I'm I'm thrilled to see via the Knives Out films that this film is being revisited. I think it's pretty fantastic. And when we were talking about show ideas, and one of them was films that inspired Ryan Johnson, this one was obviously on the list. Basically, I think I read it somewhere, it talks about what he was into and what inspired him, you know, in written interviews. And I saw Evil Under the Sun and I was like, hell yeah. So it seemed like the natural place to start.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Absolutely. Right. I mean, it's it's it had to be, right? For you back then, coming out of Star Wars, coming out of Empire. Then you get transformed to this place, right? And yeah, this beautiful island, and you could easily see yourself there, right? A little bit easier than in a galaxy far, far away.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That this this connected with me more than in some ways, like, you know, at the time everyone was it was Raiders of the Lost Ark, everyone was crazy. And those kind of exotic locations. I remember seeing this film and going, that looks like a great place to be.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Uh looks like a great place to be right now.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

I know, I know. What a what a great idea to like a luxury vacation, which is also kind of a psychological pressure cooker to put this group of people in an isolated location. And it doesn't start like a murder mystery. It feels kind of light and airy.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

And I think if you didn't know that this was a who'd done it, you really would be, you know, struggling to figure out what the movie's about at the start. I mean, at least the first 20-30 minutes, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting too, because it gets it gets going pretty quick. I mean, the whole idea, the opening shot of someone running along a dead body and someone running along the moors. Like that's all you need. And they get to the island pretty quick, which I think is absolutely key. And I absolutely adore and love the fact that Peter Houstonoff is introduced by pronouncing his name right out of the gate. Hercule Poirot, right? You gotta pucker those lips. You know, I I I know I'm never saying it right.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Probably won't. I know I won't, uh especially in uh yeah, a couple of North Carolina boys here.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

But hey, we gotta talk about this because it's I mean, as two huge Bond fans, and that's kind of how we met, Guy Hamilton.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Hello, right? Coming off right of the mirror cracked, right? Just a couple years before.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Yeah. I mean, to get the the the man who directed Goldfinger, which is incredible. So, and I think honestly, I think this is his best film since Goldfinger.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Um, let me take that back. I'm I'm not including you know, Diamonds are forever man with a golden gun, but I think this movie is so it's executed so brilliantly. I'm thrilled that Guy Hamilton has another A plus on his resume. Just absolutely incredible director. But let's talk quickly about the opening credits, the paintings. And I thought to myself, okay, there's another thread between Evil Under the Sun and the Knives Out films, you know, having the the paintings, the landscapes at the beginning, and then the portraits at the end. So I'm always looking for the connected tissue.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Shout out Cole Porter with that music to kick it off too.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Absolutely. The soundtrack is just gorgeous. And it's funny because as I listen to it, I can't imagine anything else, but in a weird way, I'm going, God, this movie just screams like it could have been John Barry. Right. It must be noted that John Lynchberry was the arranger and conductor of the music. So the music is absolutely brilliant. Now, I'm not suggesting anyone go over to YouTube, but I did wake up the other morning and you had sent me this, someone had put together a suite from the soundtrack of about 15 minutes worth of music that's absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Oh man, yeah. I uh my girlfriend and I were driving upstate New York to go see her family, and I threw that one on as a surprise in the car. And you know, it just kind of fit with the vibe with the trees and the outdoors. I mean, it just was a little precursor to me watching the movie.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Excellent. What'd she think about it? She was like, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Um so, you know. Needless to say, she did not watch. She's a Swifty, right? Is that safe to say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

I don't know if she's ready for a little Cole Porter. She'll she'll get it eventually, but she'll get it eventually.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, I don't know. I'd love to see a little bit of sleep during on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Yeah, I'd love to see some sort of statistic of the amount of Taylor Swift fans that are into Cole Porter. Um, but that that that has not been compiled yet. So I love I love the opening credits. I love the music. The music is almost like a character in itself in the film. I I threw on a couple of the other films that were done after this one, and they all kind of have a you know made-for-TV feel to it, the look, the music. So this one is just again a cut above. So we're loving the Cole Porter soundtrack. Also, we got to talk about the locations because speaking of characters in a film, I mean, these you just you can feel the heat. It feels like you're there. I love a film that's so grounded in in a reality and filmed on location that you almost can smell it. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, although they're claiming it somewhere in England, right, in the film, I think it is actually Majorca, correct?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Correct. Actually, the the original novel was set in England, and I think where one of the best changes that they did was, you know, was Guy and the writers them moving it to Majorca to have that, you know, sweltering sun, you know, all pun intended. But I think the location and I think the estate, you know, the hotel that Maggie Smith runs is easily the biggest character out of everything in the entire film. Um I encourage everybody to go and look up that hotel. It's called the Roxia Estate. You can look it up, Google, still see it. I swear, John, it looks like it hasn't changed a bit. One single bit. It's an incredible looking place. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

I know. That's what I was thinking too. Uh, because I looked it up as well and thought, God, it looks the same. Little little couples trip next year to Mallorca? I know, I know. Um as I'm watching this too, I'm thinking about this film and another film we'll do called The Last of Sheila. And if those two films met, had sex, made a baby, it would be Glass Onion. It's such a good idea. Murder mystery on holiday. It's just a rest of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

And you know, just again, I have not seen The Last of Sheila either. So that's gonna be a fun one for me to kind of go through. And I mean, you could see Glass Onion through this film without even looking. But I mean, just it's just cool to put like a whole group of weird characters, right, that just clearly all are up to no good and you just don't know what's going on. And you know, Agatha Christie's writing and her story and her plot lines are just, you know, she's never made a bad one, in my opinion. And just again, that for me, the hotel, I keep going back to it, the hotel stands out because if I just can picture that, you know, quote, Glass Onion and that stood out in Glass Onion. That this is kind of that, you know, that or the beach, right? That just kind of stands out as the biggest location and character uh from this film.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Absolutely. I mean, it just makes you want to be there. So, well, and what comes with a good location, you gotta have the right clothes. Everyone is so absolutely gorgeous. The wardrobe is a masterclass, and and the the costume designer was Anthony Powell. So we salute you, Anthony, because everyone has such a distinctive look. And as I'm looking at the characters and the way they're dressed, and I was looking at the poster for the film, it really gives me especially the first knives out, where there's a color palette being used where everyone is gorgeous. It's this perfect medium between something that came before and something that's fashion forward.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

It just bathing suits.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah, like I mean, I love that everyone's sort of on their last dime, but they're living like they're uber wealthy. When you think of it in terms of the wardrobe, the clothing, the outfits, you really see the connection to Knives Out. And I think that the first film, the first Knives Out film specifically, is the apex moment this century of costume design. You look at how everyone's dressed and the the colors that are being used and looks at some marketing materials. Yeah. It's it's the same way here.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Um and obviously, you know, Anthony Powell just came off of you know Death on the Nile, where he won his first Oscar for costume designs. And then, you know, he he went on to do Temple of Doom. And you know, really one of the weird things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the and one of the weird things that I kind of caught, and and maybe it's just because I'm just uh I can't get James Bond out of my life, even if I've tried. Um Shall I can't do that? What outfit is literally um there were several moments in Evil Under the Sun where there was a character wearing a white dinner jacket with some sort of red flower, red carnation, or red accent, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

What was Connery wearing at Goldfinger? Absolutely. What was Harrison Ford wearing in the beginning of Temple of Doom?

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Oh my god, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Hello. It's all connected, folks. So I mean, clearly there's gotta be something there. But either way, Anthony Powell just headed out of the park. Uh and just, you know, let that sink in for a second.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

I love it. I love it. Correct me if I'm wrong, uh, Daniel's got a white dinner jacket and Spectre, too.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Sure does.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

No flower, though.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

No flower.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

No flower. Well, Anthony Powell is just a rock star. I mean, I think this could be, as far as the costume design, one of the just greatest of all time. Because it just having so much fun. I would have loved, I know you're a man of the cloth, but it would have just been so much fun to dress, dress in this film. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And I mean, clearly, right? Like this is where again, and going back to, you know, where how do these movies connect knives out? I mean, right, just the bathing suits alone for Daniel Craig and Glass Onion are right a direct callback to this film with all of Anthony Powell's crazy inventions.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Well, the next thing we need to talk about is the cinematography and the cinematographer, Christopher Callas. As someone who sells real estate, one of the bane of my existences is, you know, real estate photographers. And what I've really learned about hiring a photographer is you want to hire someone that knows where to put the camera. The position of the camera in every shot of this film is perfect. And what's striking to me, especially given the time period, you know, the early 80s, late 70s, early 80s, if you notice a lot of things are overlit in the sense that whatever lighting, artificial, they're lighting, they're using. They have to amp it up so much to overpower the sun. So the people in the foreground is lit beautifully. And that is got to be a really difficult thing to do. I've never tried doing it, so in all fairness. But a lot of times you can see how bright everyone is. And the cinematography in this film is so perfect that everything, especially outdoors and indoors, nothing is overlit. The camera is is positioned in the right place. And it's so beautifully lit and it looks so natural that again, I think it's another masterclass in filmmaking. So, Christopher, we salute you.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

The way that he made the colors pop of that water by the beach. Every time he saw water, I mean, it wasn't like just blue water. I mean, there was something about it that was just absolutely incredible. There's just all the colors, it's so different, you know, so many different shades really jumped out at me. And again, I agree with you. All the all the lighting outside. I mean, it's just again, it goes back to that you you feel the sun, right? With the way that he shot the movie, you're feeling that sun beating down on you. Yeah, buy that guy. Let's buy that guy around.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

What's truly incredible too is, you know, this is we're not using Photoshop or any kind of digital enhancing, and you're right, some of those shots from especially the cliff, looking down into the water, you just see all the turquoise and blues and greens, and it's just phenomenal. So as we set out on this journey, something I've got to note the gentleman who sends Poirot on the journey to, you know, for the fraud of the diamond is the same guy who is the gold expert in goldfinger, you know, with an overdose of bonbois. Have a little bit more of this disappointing, disappointing Sherry or Brandy or whatever it was, right? That's that old.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

There is no year for Sherry Double Slip.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Exactly. That is the same guy. So Guy Hamilton bringing in actors from Goldfinger, which we absolutely love. And then there's the setup of the film. The story begins once we get to the island. Peter Usinoff is just so perfect as Poirot. He's got the timing, the humor. I did watch Death on the Nile prior to watching this film. It feels like in Death on the Nile, he's playing it a little bit more serious. In Evil Under the Sun, there's some humor. He seems a little bit more relaxed in the character. And then by the time we get to Appointment, it's just, it feels like a made-for-television film. Although it does have Carrie Fisher in it. And I'm talking about post-Return of the Jedi Carrie Fisher. So it's worth checking out. But when you look at the cinematography, the music, the costumes, all of that of Evil Under the Sun, it just nothing can compare.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Who's your biggest standout out of the cast? I mean, that's kind of the big, you know, right? I mean, this cast is pretty star-studded.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I feel like we have to go with Diana Rigg. Her portrayal of Arlena is just, she's having so much fun. She was quoted as saying her character is the quote archetypal actress bitch. She's having fun. And I think also that the incredible Maggie Smith is as the the innkeeper, Daphne. And I think when those two are going at it, especially when they're having cocktails, welcome cocktails the first evening, and she says she could throw her legs higher than anyone else and wider.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Don't forget wider.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Yeah. You could watch Diana Rigg and Maggie Smith, who I'm guessing probably came up through the same channels as actors, and probably had a wonderful friendship. They are having so much fun having a go at each other.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Um I was reading up on kind of just you know the kind of the behind the scenes and the filming and whatnot. And and it in one interview, Matt Maggie Smith was talking about how her, how her and Diana were just getting on and they were the best of friends and they were having so much fun. And then to have to get on, you know, on set and in front of a camera and go after each other. It was it sounded like a really fun time. And you know, Maggie Smith's my favorite out of everybody. I just I I could not help but smile and laugh every time that she was on. And she just so she she she just captures you, in my opinion. I there's something about her. I mean, obviously, uh for me in my age, I know her from the Harry Potter films and of course Downton Abbey, but what an incredible actor. She kind of reminds me of Judy Dinch a little bit, where like when the when when they're on camera, you can't you can't look away.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

You're right. You're absolutely right. There are certain actors that just they can be in the background and your eye goes right to them. And Maggie Smith has definitely got that. I mean, the whole cast is just perfect. Colin Blakely, come on, James Barkin, I know Nicholas Clay, Maggie Smith, Rodney McDowell, Sylvia Miles, James Mason. I mean, James Mason shows up in something, all he has to do is open his mouth, and you're like looking right at him. Dennis Quayley, Diana Rigg, Emily Hone, and Richard Vernon. So another master class in filmmaking, and that is the casting. Sadly, I'm not sure. I cannot remember. Pardon, pardon me. I cannot remember who the casting director was. Diana Rigg, the whole film doesn't work unless she's working, and you just believe that the way she treats everyone in this film, it positions everyone to be a suspect.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Dyson Lovell. Here's something weird. Dyson Lovell was the casting director, but was uncredited.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Uncredited?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Uncredited. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Well, I don't feel so bad about not knowing who Dyson was until now.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

He was uh just to give you a little bit of oh wow, interesting. He was the casting director for all of them. The appointment and death, mirror crack, death on the Nile, Murder on the Orient Express, all uncredited, with the exception of Appointment with Death.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Interesting. Well, that is that's a shame because if someone should be credited, Dyson, we're crediting you now. Speaking of making this film work, I mean, we've got to talk about Peter Eustinoff's portrayal as Poirot. I mean, he walks into the room and he's just got this way about him where he lets everyone know I'm the smartest person in the room. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

We all know one of those people, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Yeah, and and it never works. I mean, to actually pull off that kind of credibility is a really thing to do. And I think if most actors, when most actors do it, they just come across as a bit of an idiot or buffoon. Right. But he's got such precision, he's got ego in the right way, and there's just absolute confidence in his logic and his order. It's almost like he doesn't just discover the truth, but he restores it. Harris, let me ask you this. How would you compare Poirot to Blanc?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Their comedic timing and their jokes just clearly jump out on the screen. I mean, they're they're cut from the same cloth.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

The sense of humor. It's interesting because I noticed that with Poirot, he says, now I will explain everything. And Blanc's way of conveying that same sentiment is, well, it's a curious thing. So it's almost to me like Poirot performs with certainty and Blanc performs with curiosity. And that to me feels like the difference between the two. This is actually a great question for Ryan. Ryan, you're listening, come on the show. And as this movie takes off, where it really starts to shine is once everyone starts coming up with their alibis and they're all in everything's timed, a timed-based illusion. And it's brilliant because it's simple, it's precise, and it completely manipulates what we think we saw, which I think is ultimately the thing that makes Agatha Christie or certainly the film adaptations you know so much fun. It's a pure genius. And you think, you know, here you're presented a timeline, and then that timeline starts to come undone. And I think that's the true sort of brilliance. And speaking of brilliance, again, someone that we we have to absolutely credit because another masterclass is Richard Martin, who edited the film. And I think that the way that this film is edited is so beautiful. And I love how the setups are classically shot and they don't it, it's not cut fast. It doesn't, it's just classic setups and classic editing that that really work. And I was I was aware of it the second time I watched it in preparation for today's show. That how the camera just sits there for a moment. It lets you take in what everyone's doing. And that's really lovely. The other thing I think is another masterclass, I keep using this words, is Guy Hamilton's blocking. And I I'm always amazed, and I've heard directors talk about, especially when you've got a large group of people, and a lot of them don't have dialogue, is for guy to put all these people, heavyweight actors in a frame, put them in position, and to be able to set that up and make that work. And you know, you gotta imagine every actor wants lines, they want something to do, want something to say. But it's just everyone's such a professional. And I think that the blocking in this film is another just stroke of genius.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, I I really liked Mike. One of my favorite kind of scenes and kind of like kind of edited parts of the film is when obviously all the alibis are going on and he's, you know, uh, you're having them recount what they're doing, and he's always, you know, he's always, you know, he's always got that one step ahead of him, right? You know, uh you can't see with you, you know, you can't see the door uh sitting from the desk or you know, all of that. Or, you know, you had the you know, with Jane Birkin and her vertigo walking out there and noticed that you know you'd had to go all the way, and it made me dizzy, right? So I just what a I just really enjoyed that montage of it and kind of calls back to the editing of of how it was done. And you know, that that scene at the end, right, going back to the blocking too, of of having everybody in in in the scene, all looking for something to chew on, kind of reminds me of the show Shot in the Dark at the end when Clouseau has brought everybody into the room, right? In the in the mansion and you know, revealing who the killer was. I don't know, it just kind of stuck out to me too, like a really kind of kind of fun way to call back those those films.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

And that's gotta be, I'm imagining, one of the hardest things to to handle by Ryan in these films, because everyone's waiting for the gotcha moment, the moment where everyone's in a room because it's been done so many times. And I think that was one of the most brilliant and jarring things about Knives Out was showing you that thrombie ultimately kills himself. And I remember sitting in the theater thinking, wait a minute, they just showed the murderer is who got murdered. Now, what's gonna happen? Ryan's done a brilliant job of making that moment fresh and in Wake Up Dead Man, sort of acknowledging, hey, this is that moment, as opposed to trying to come up with something great. He goes, All right, everyone, that moment's getting ready to happen now. And he turned it into humor, which I think is brilliant. When I talk to someone who sees one of the knives out film only once, I'm always a bit, well, suspicious because you're you you miss so much of the the film because you're sitting in the film constantly trying to in a state of constantly trying to figure out who did it. And when you see it a second time, you go, okay, I know who did it. Now you can sort of absorb so much more of what's going on and ultimately what makes the film brilliant, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah, and I mean, for me, right, I I think that that's what makes uh Who Done It so interesting and a movie and a type of film that you can keep coming back to, right? Because I mean, now everybody knows who did it. Everyone knows who the murderer is, but it's more fun to try to find the clues hidden in plain sight and watch it all come together. And I I think it takes several viewings, especially you know, a film like this. And then, you know, it was so refreshing to have Ryan Johnson, like you said, do it, do it in Knives Out, where we're just gonna show you the murderer to to start it off. We're just gonna, you know, embrace it. And same thing in Wake Up Dead Man of kind of making the humor thing about it. Is that everybody knows what kind of film they're going in to watch, right? Like everybody does that. It's you're you're buying the ticket to see how he puts it all together. And really, that's really the fun ride. It's not really a matter who who who the killer is, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Totally. Totally. Speaking of fun rides, one of the things I noticed that I love so much, and it took me back to Glass Onion, is having Poirot and Blanc just wander around the island. Just seeing them wander around the island. And it just, I don't know, it's a lot of fun seeing Blanc, you know, kind of snooping around and, you know, getting a lay of the land. And I love that about this movie as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I really enjoyed the that that montage too of like a Ustinov, you know, walking out to the thing and kind of looking over and then walking back, right, and checking his time to see how long it took, right? And try to, you know, piece all the things together. Again, you're just seeing the beautiful island and all these incredible locations, and just uh yeah, it's it's kind of fun, right? You you you you enjoy being with your with your main character as they explore and kind of adventure around and and uncover it along with you.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Watching our yeah, watching our favorite detectives detect.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Is is a is a is a thrill. You know, something I gotta ask you, speaking of the island and that beautiful location, if you were to create, come up with double feature, Tarantino's New Beverly calls you and says, We want to do a double feature with Evil Under the Sun, what would the second film be that you would choose?

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Maybe La Piscine with the Jane Birkin in it, with Alain Delone?

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Jesus, you went there. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Hello. Interesting. Okay. Kind of on an island, you're not really, but you know, you're south of France. I'll let you watch the swimming pool, which is the English version, so you don't have to read.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

I don't mind reading. I I honestly I'm at a place in life now where I always have subtitles on. I just get more out of it, especially if I've seen the movie before. Right. Always pick up on something, especially the original Murder on the Orient Express, Albert Fennie, I mean, one of the great actors ever. Miller's Crossing, forget about it. But in that film, if I don't have the subtitles on, I'm missing a good 50% of what he's saying.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Right. So what about you? What's what's your if New Beverly calls, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:16

What's your I'm gonna go with Evil Under the Sun and to Catch a Thief. Ooh. I just feel like that is a fun take you away to a time and a place double feature.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

You you went extreme happy, and I went extreme sad.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Yeah, lacine is pretty heavy duty.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Look, it's an annual summer watch for me because it's uh it's kind of my movie that kicks off the summer season. I don't know what that says about me. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

But um All right, mine's silver streak with Gene Wilder, but I see what you're doing there.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

You know, there's just something amazing looking at a land alone smoking a cigarette. Yeah, he's uh like literally looks like his body is gonna have cancer at some point because of how tan he is. But you know, you just want to be that.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Yeah. I never worried about his ability to meet women.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Kind of hard to imagine him struggling with that.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

No. Um speaking of swimming, let's talk about Poirot swimming. It always cracks me up when he goes down to the water, you know, gets up to about his shins and then pretends to swim. And and I love that when someone at some point asks him, like, did you did you go for a swim? And he said, Were you watching? And also something that I always I think is fantastic, and I don't know why, but Alina's red Chinese hat, her her murder outfit is so brilliant. It's been a long time. I was pretty young, but I don't I I remember being kind of like, wow, I did not see that coming with the body double. Spoiler alert, by the way, if you're listening to this or hoping or imagining that you've already seen this film. But that the fact that they switched out the body. I mean, did you did it's the did the ending surprise you?

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Completely. I mean, what once he started talking about, you know, how they did it and what what they were doing, I was like, okay, I can see that totally. That makes all the sense in the world. I still didn't see the body double coming. And that was incredible. And then the whole thing of like having to wash off all the tan and like all that was that was amazing. I thought pure genius.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

I thought so too. I think it's so clever and so smart the way that they unravel it. And again, it goes back, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

It goes back to why we watch these movies, right? We we were just talking about it. It's more fun to watch it unravel and get put together than it is to just see it happen.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

To and to re-watch it, I I get something out of it every time too. I see it for the first time. But it just comes back to an incredible story and an incredible group of actors. And I think above all, when looking at this film through the knives out world, is is you've got a group of incredible actors who are all there to serve the story. You really get a sense of that when you're watching Evil Under the Sun. Criterion, if you're listening, this needs to be a contender for a cur Criterion, not only a Criteria edition, but also Folio Society. If you're listening, they've got about eight of the Agatha Christie's, and every time they announce a new Agatha Christie, I'm just like, please let it be Evil Under the Sun. Folks, if you've never checked out Folio Society, it's gotta be probably the best bookmaker on planet Earth.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

So have they done the others? Have they done like Death on the Nile and Murder and All?

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Most of them.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

So Folio Society, Criterion Collection, Evil Under the Sun.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

I feel like I gotta tell you though, man, we we I I did know this before we were gonna watch it. I just have not had a chance to purchase it yet. But there is a four-movie collection with Murder, Death on the Nile, The Mirror Cracked, and Evil Under the Sun in 4K. And they have like this, I'll send you the link. They that they have this amazing artwork that it kind of looks like, you know, Art Deco Great Gatsby kind of vibes. And looking at the Blu-ray uh website review of Evil Under the Sun, you got a 5.0 for a 4K video transfer. I think it's time for a re-watch.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Now hang on a second. This is one of my favorite things about Harris and I's friendship is there's a constant state of text messages that are, I would say, funding. We like to spend money, is what John is saying. What company's doing this? Is this like Arrow? Who's put this together?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah, the box set is by Studio Canal, which, you know, if you've seen any sort of restoration over the last 10 years, you know, they're really kind of the leaders and the kings of 4K transfers. But yeah, this is a this is a 4K region free four-disc collection that it's got a killer booklet and got you know got some cool artwork. I mean, it would just look good on a shelf, honestly. But yeah, if you need me to spend your money, you can shoot me an email and I will gladly send you a list of 4Ks that you should buy.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Yeah, I'm gonna totally check that out. Have that waiting for me. Well Have you seen the mirror correct? I have not.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

I have not either. I it it's uh it it's the only one that I didn't know of because it's here in the set and you know looks like I have not, but I need to see it and I'll probably check that out this evening.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Now, Harris, let's bring this thing home, let's land it and because this is why we're here. I feel like I mean, given the title of this episode, you can really see Benoit Blanc's DNA all over this film. And from Ryan Johnson's perspective, You've got a closed circle, eccentric detective, and you've got social dynamics. But where they differ is Poirot solves a puzzle where Blanc understands people. Poirot is about order, and Blanc is about the truth. So if you were to drop Benoit Blanc into this movie, what would change? And I feel like he would talk less, listen more. And I feel like he picks up on emotional tells faster. And I feel like Blanc would suspect the right person a lot earlier. I think probably the most brilliant Benoit Blanc moment of the three knives out film is in Glass Onion when we're at the dinner, and he immediately figures out the plot of the whole murder mystery weekend that Ed Norton's character has planned with the dart, and he just ruins it and then wins the iPad. So I just feel like Blanc is just so fast as a result of understanding people. So that would be what would, if you called this film Blanc and the Sun, that's what would happen. But what are your closing thoughts on Evil End of the Sun, having just seen it?

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Well, I mean, for me, this movie had everything, right? You've got an amazing location, you've got amazing outfits, fun accents, the funniest swimsuits I've ever seen, fake swimming, mustaches, tennis. It's got a weird food platter in it, too, by the way, that we didn't talk about. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

And then of course it's hang on a second. I gotta stop you because that is something I wanted to talk to you about first and foremost, because you and I love this. I even cocktails, and there's just this huge tray of like a variety of like strong ass, you know, knock your ass into the dirt cocktails. And at one point, someone grabs one and kind of looks at it like they don't even know what they're drinking. I mean, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Just bring me a big old tray, a silver tray, antique tray full of deadly cocktails.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Gin. I mean, just cold.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

I mean, one of them was purple, and I was like, what the hell is that? So I love that, but you're right about the the food platter. Was that like cheese and a cherry?

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Like, look, you know me in the in the in in food, and food jumps out at me and all the waves. Yeah, and that stood to me, and I mean that like when I when I see food like that, I'm just kind of I'm just purely disgusted, honestly. I'm just like, this is this is I kind of want to just dive into one of those drinks. But yeah, I just I don't know what it was, honestly. Uh it sounds like I mean it looked like cheese for sure, but I mean that just ugh. No thanks. I'm gonna I'm gonna pass it off.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

I mean, how about the size of that dessert he digs into? Good heavens.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

There is. I mean, I can do a creme brulee here and there, but I mean that thing was mad.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Serious. You're right. It's funny because that that cheese platter I just went, is that like a sharp cheddar and a cherry? Good God.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Like, maybe when you're that famous and you're that wealthy as these characters are. Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Maybe we're we're maybe we're wrong. Maybe we don't get it. Just a couple of North Carolina boys. Yeah. Um I'm sorry, I interrupted your flow. What what are your final thoughts on this film?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

No, I mean, just it's just a solid whodunit. You know, I it's it's I'm really glad I finally got to see it. Glad that, you know, this was the reason that I did it. And I'm looking forward to, you know, seriously, the next time we record, I guarantee you I'll have uh that 4K set and I'll have already re-watched it. So I'm really looking forward to checking it out again. And I think I'm just gonna continue to have a better appreciation for the movie as I as I keep re-watching it.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Absolutely. It's a film that I love that reminds me of my childhood. It reminds me of my youth. I was raised by my grandparents or had a huge, tremendous influence on my grandparents, and just sitting in my grandpa John's bedroom with that cable box, it was just like you had the world in your hands and just hot summers and watching Evil Into the Sun. So every time I see it, it just takes me back to an innocent time in my life. It expanded my my movie love palette, just opened my door to a new kind of film, and here I am decades later, talking about this film still. So it's just a real thrill to watch it, and I look forward to seeing it again. And it is, I'm excited for you because it is one of those films that will fall into the category of something you watch annually.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Yeah, I I kind of want this to be like, I don't know about you, but like, you know, typically when the seasons change, I have my own, you know, I don't watch The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo until it snows. So that's a great movie to watch, you know, as the snow's coming down. And then going back to the, you know, I again, I think Evil Under the Sun and La Piscine are two great movies to throw on to kick off your spring summer.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Totally. And it is, as we like to say, knives out adjacent. So loving that Ryan is name-checking this film as an influence that puts a smile on our face, and we love talking about it today. If you haven't seen the film, check it out. If you've seen it, check it out again. Find that score. By the way, that score is on vinyl. As soon as you sent me that soundtrack suite, I went right on to eBay. So that copy's coming. And we'd love nothing more than to have that vinyl on Mutant. And speaking of Mutant, what do we got next?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

We have an exclusive interview with Mo, the founder of Mutant, coming on the show.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

And I'm so excited about that. So that is in the books. We're going to be talking to him about the Knives Out, Glass Onion, and Wake Up Dead Man releases. We've got a bunch of great questions, and it'll be our first interview here on Within the Donut Hole. So looking forward to that. Thank you, as always, everyone, for tuning in, and we look forward to speaking with you more soon. We will see you next time inside the donut hole.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

And so, dear detectives, we close the case for now. Thank you for joining us within the donut hole. We hope our investigation sheds new light on Benoit Blanc's peculiar brilliance and the beloved mysteries crafted by Ryan Johnson. If you enjoyed today's inquiry, consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing the case with a fellow sleuth. Your support keeps the mystery alive and the conversation delightfully afoot. This has been Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast.