Within the Donut Hole: a Benoit Blanc podcast

The Last Bond, The First Blanc | Within the Donut Hole Podcast

• John Williams (No Relation) • Season 1 • Episode 9

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0:00 | 46:52

Bond made Daniel Craig famous. Benoit Blanc may make him unforgettable. It sounds like a wild theory until you start looking at the evidence.

In this special episode of Within the Donut Hole: A Benoit Blanc Podcast, John Williams and Harris Thomas investigate one of the most fascinating questions in modern cinema: Could Benoit Blanc ultimately become Daniel Craig's defining role?

From the immense shadow of James Bond to the freedom and creativity of the Knives Out mysteries, we explore why Blanc may be the most personal, complete, and enduring character Craig has ever played. Along the way, we discuss the burden of inheriting an iconic role, why previous Bond actors never fully escaped 007, the timeless appeal of great detectives, and the remarkable creative partnership between Daniel Craig and Rian Johnson.

This isn't Bond versus Blanc. It's a conversation about legacy.

@aknivesoutpod

SPEAKER_00

Greetings, illustrious detectives. Welcome to Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast. Join us as we investigate the case files of the beloved, groundbreaking cinematic mysteries created by Ryan Johnson. With a tip of the hat, we invite you into an in-depth and at times delightfully mysterious conversation exploring the world of Benoit Blanc. Each episode dives within the donut hole itself, unpacking Blanc's methods, monologues, and mysteries lurking beneath the surface of Knives Out, Glass Onion, Wake Up Dead Man, and beyond, where the truth really sits at the center. It's a new golden age of Who Dunnits. This podcast is properly afoot.

SPEAKER_02

Greetings, illustrious detectives, and welcome back to Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast. I am John Williams, and today we are diving into a mystery unlike any Benoit Blanc has ever investigated. Who is Daniel Craig? Now, I know that sounds like a ridiculous question. He's one of the most recognizable actors on the planet. He's James Bond, case closed, role credits. Or is it? For nearly 20 years, Daniel Craig carried one of the most iconic roles, if not the most iconic role in cinema history. A role so large that it has swallowed actors whole for more than 60 years. We think of Sean Connery, we think of Bond. We think of Roger Moore, we think of Bond. We think of Piers Brosnan, we think of Bond. But then something unusual happened. A detective appeared, a gentleman with a southern draw and an eye for human nature, a man who solves murder not with gadgets or fist, but with curiosity, empathy, and a healthy appreciation for the gravity of stupidity. Benoit Blanc. And the more time passes, the more fascinating that question becomes. What if the role that Daniel Craig is ultimately remembered for isn't James Bond? What if it's Benoit Blanc? Today, along with my co-host Harris Thomas, we are exploring what might be the most interesting second act in modern movie stardom. We'll talk about legacy, iconic characters, the genius of Ryan Johnson's writing, and why Blanc may be something we've never seen before. A character capable of standing shoulder to shoulder with 007. So pour yourself a cup of coffee or a cocktail, grab a seat inside the donut hole, and join us as we investigate the last bond, the first Blanc. But before we bring in Harris, I want to make one thing crystal clear. This is not an episode about why Benoit Blanc is better than James Bond. Frankly, that's not a very interesting conversation. James Bond is one of the greatest characters in cinema history. Instead, this is an episode about something much more fascinating. Why Benoit Blanc may be the most personal, complete, and ultimately enduring character Daniel Craig has ever played. Bond made Daniel Craig famous. Blanc made him unforgettable. Now, let's get into it. Harris, welcome back to the show.

SPEAKER_05

Hey, John. Good to be back, man.

SPEAKER_02

How's it going? It is going well. It's been way too long. I'm thrilled that we are back talking about Benoit Blanc.

SPEAKER_05

Amen to that, man. But first, uh I gotta say, man, what a killer interview with Mo, by the way, from last episode. I'm so so incredibly jealous and gutted that I missed out on that one. Of course, the last work always gets in the way, but you know, rent must be paid. So uh especially here in New York City. Uh I hate when rent gets in the way. Yeah. Yeah, I hate that when it happens. But no, what a what a fun conversation that you guys had. And I mean, what a I mean, clearly, what what a guy who's passionate about what he does. Don't you wish we were all like that?

SPEAKER_02

I know. It's funny because that episode is heavily edited. There's a good 30, 30-minute plus of Mo and myself just, you know, gushing over our favorite music and soundtracks, and definitely want to thank Mo for his generosity, his time, of which he gave me so much. So that was a real blast to be able to talk to him and just so thrilled for all of his success and his contributions to this franchise, but many, many more. You know, my my credit card is happiest over there on madebymutant.com. Well, speaking of sort of bond adjacent, I mean, Harris, how did you and I meet? We had a mutual friend, and you and I connected and just started talking about that that particular franchise and you know, clothes trappings, the music, the traveling, and and you know, quickly became friends for our love for cinema. And I'm thrilled you were going deep on your love of cinema. And I think that's what this show ultimately uh is about, is that we love movies, we love film, we love cinema. And this is our way of showing appreciation for all of those who make these films possible and what a joy it is to make, you know, to explore that through Knives Out, Glass Onion, and Wake Up Dead Man. I mean, we want to I want to talk to everyone, whether it's Ryan Johnson or the craft service on Glass Onion. Everyone is invited to talk about every facet of filmmaking. But before we get into the show, you sent me a text message with a photo on Saturday, and I saved it for this very moment because you said, you sent me and you said, My my lovely, beautiful girlfriend Ariana is gone, and here's what's in store. And in this photo is 2001, The Circle Rouge, Apocalypse Now, Blow Up, Purple Noon, Flash Gordon, and the Outlaw Josie Wales.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, come on, that's a Saturday morning special right there. Come on.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, that is, I'm gonna post that on IG because I went, man, he has really got his work cut out for him. Now, some of these films you have not seen before, correct?

SPEAKER_05

Correct. Some of them that I have, I am obviously missing my better half very much as we as we talk right now. But I'm was never in debate. Was never in debate. Never in debate. But also, what was never in debate is that I'm so excited to be a bachelor for a week in my own home. Yes. And so that means we get to watch whatever we want to watch. Hence blow up an apocalypse now.

SPEAKER_02

Jeez. Speaking of a cup of coffee and a cocktail.

SPEAKER_05

But uh yeah, no, I mean, I have seen half of these, and then I also have not seen half of these. And so, you know, summer's finally kicking here in New York and the weather's getting warmer. So I pull out Purple Noon and La Piscine from the great Alain Delon, incredible actor. That's just those, those are my summer movies. Maybe I'm weird, but those are my, you know, that's great. Summer's in. You wish you were in the south of France.

SPEAKER_02

Have you? I'm hoping the answer is no. Have you ever seen 2001?

SPEAKER_05

I have not. It's been I'm I'm terrible. I know. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02

Do me a huge favor. Do me a huge favor. Do not watch that at home. I want you to wait until there's some sort of 70 millimeter screening of it. Yeah. Because whenever they do a 70 millimeter fest, it's always part of that film festival. So you need to see that with an audience. And if I may take the, you know, obsessive fandom of film further, you not only do you want to see it in 70 millimeter, you want to see it where the theater plays it at the correct volume that Stanley Kubrick requested.

SPEAKER_05

I do know that here locally, the Paris Theater, actually, where I saw Wake Up Dead Man, ironically, you know, they do a lot of these 70 millimeter and 35 millimeter fests. They're doing a film noir fest here in the next few weeks, here in the month of June. So definitely need to need to see it there. Yes, they crave.

SPEAKER_02

It's the way to go. It's the it is. And it just the we just had a 70 millimeter festival here at the beautiful mid-century modern theater of the Camelot, been around since 1962. And they warned people we're playing this film at Stan Lee's the volume that he he said this is how how loud it needs to be. And they handed out earplugs, and there's one moment in the film where you'll realize why they handed out earplugs, and it's just jarring. And I will say this, having seen it a couple times, this past weekend, seeing it in 70 millimeter, based on the world we live in now with AI, that it's horrifying. Anyone listening to this who has, you know, is familiar, which I imagine most people are with 2001, howl is the scariest thing in cinema history now. Now, if AI is listening to this podcast, I love you. I always say thank you. I'm always pleasant, show appreciation to you. So please keep that in mind when Skynet, you know, takes over. Uh I am not talking disparagingly about AI here on the big show.

SPEAKER_05

So no way. But what about you, man? Like I I know that was my movie setup for Saturday with Lil Martini and you know, Purple Noon, but didn't you do something on Saturday that was pretty cool?

SPEAKER_02

I did. I went and saw I got to see Alfred Hitchcock's Frenzy on the big screen. And at that Camelot Theater, the first Friday of every month, they show a Hitchcock film. Frenzy is one of my favorites. It's so underrated, and it's the first time I've seen it with an audience, and it was a packed house. And you know, when you go to a movie and the audience is just into it, and it was one of those screenings, you know, that when there's a movie you're really familiar with and you see it for the first time on the big screen, you see things and hear things you don't, you know, you've never picked up on before. But what's interesting is this was his second to last film, and it's his only rated R film. And I think that after the critical and commercial, not failure, but uh Marnie, God, what's Torn Curtain and Topez? Topez. Yeah. That yes, that Hitchcock said, All right, I'm gonna go to London, I'm gonna make a rated R movie, and I'm gonna make you uncomfortable. And I will say that in the screening last Friday night, people got up and walked out after one scene. Wow. Yeah. And I was sitting there going, Well it's a horrific scene. So I'm in no way making light of it. But I was sitting there, and after they, the people in front of us got up and they clearly weren't just going to the restroom and coming back, I thought to myself, here we are in 2026, and Alfred Hitchcock is still making people so uncomfortable that they have to leave the theater. And that brought a little happiness to me. Like Hitch is still rocking people's world, and I loved it. So if you haven't seen Frenzy, you need to throw that one on. It's, if I had to guess, the people in front of me were coming for a North by Northwest or a To Catch a Thief. And this film has more in common with the French connection. Yeah, you need to see Frenzy. So anyway, it sounds like we're doing a lot of film watching, which is wonderful.

SPEAKER_05

Sounds like we're doing a lot of uh uncomfortable film watching. I know we had talked about doing a few other uh episodes and then suddenly came out of the blue, and it you you and I both agreed that when I sent you that glorious Instagram reel from the Criterion channel featuring not one, not two, but three Sean Connery Bond movies. One, it was awesome because it's just great to see, you know, classic Bond finally out there on Criterion, but it kind of like sparked a conversation between you and I, which kind of ultimately led to what we're doing here today to talk about, right? I mean, it was pretty, pretty groundbreaking to think about.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was we had the next episode prepped and ready to go. And I had two emails in my inbox, one from Criterion and one from you announcing the first three Bond films. And what you might not know is those were Criterion physical releases when they were Laserdisc. And I and I had them for the longest time, but then, you know, moving and circumventing the globe, it's kind of hard to be carrying your criterion laser disc. But they had some very, very controversial commentaries that commentaries weren't the regular thing now, uh then that they are now. And Terrence Young and Peter Hunt were just the way they were talking about the film did not please Cubby Broccoli. So not only are the first three films on the Criterion Channel, but so are those commentaries. I highly recommend you go over and listen to them because they don't they don't hold back. I love the criteria, the criterion design. I mean, obviously, we're big fans of the Criterion Channel. We're we're everything I just listed that you're watching is all physical media, the majority of which are criterion releases. We buy everything. So, but I love the design and seeing the colored dots. I just went, oh man. And professionally, I work seven days a week as a realtor. And so when I take time off, it just sort of happens quickly. And a couple of days ago, I went over to Sherman's Deli, one of Frank Sinatra's favorite places here in Palm Springs, got a huge club sandwich, came home, made a Negroni that would put you in the fetal position. And I watched all three of those films in a row one afternoon, and it was like just a shot of adrenaline. So well made that as soon as I was done with Goldfinger, I grabbed my laptop and I started to prep this episode. Let me ask you, Harriet, is this a crazy argument or a legitimate discussion?

SPEAKER_05

No, it's a legitimate discussion, 100%. I I think off the cuff, and I think if people see this episode title at first, they're they're gonna be like, wait, what are they talking about? Of course it's one. But no, this is a legitimate thing that I think if you really start to kind of look at, dive deep in, it'll make you it'll make you wonder for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, this the the name of our podcast is a benoit blanc podcast. So it would be a good idea to talk about the character of Benoit Blanc written by Ryan Johnson and come to life by Daniel Craig. All right, well, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_05

So Bond was a prison. So for for me, right? I mean, you you think of Daniel Craig and you think of James Bond. And for years, since No Time to Die, maybe even back in 2015 at the end of Spectre, right? The whole slash my wrists, wouldn't want to make another one. Daniel Craig, let's face it, he's been trying to get away from James Bond since then, maybe even slightly before.

SPEAKER_02

I I know he's gone back and and sort of taken that away and put context under which he was saying that. I mean, there's a physicality to these roles, and I can only, I mean, I can't imagine what that is like for him. I think it's very clear, especially after the wonderful Being James Bond documentary, that you know, he has a a love for these films and the people who make these films, but uh he gives so much of himself physically and time-wise to making those films that it's hard to imagine that it just didn't take its toll on him.

SPEAKER_05

Right. And you think about all the years and the prep that goes into it beforehand and during and after. And, you know, he he he talks about, you know, all the all all the things he's involved with on the front end, too, because right, as that whole saga continued with Daniel Craig, he got more and more involved, more and more involved on the writing end, right? Especially with the writer strike back in 08 with Quantum of Solos, and just, you know, I he probably didn't ever have a life outside of James Bond. In addition to that, right? You had everybody talking to him about in in any interview. It was always James Bond this, James Bond that, even if it was about the girl with the dragon tattoo.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. There's nothing more cringe than a reporter when he's doing a non-Bond film who asks him about uh Hey, what's the title of the next James Bond movie? I know. What do you think about what would you tell the person who's next? And it's just like, oh man. There's one moment that I saw on YouTube where he was promoting queer and a reporter sort of snarkly, I don't even know if that's a word, but asked him, asked him, like, could James Bond be gay? And he just, you know, people were putting his own. Yeah, he was just like, oh God, you've got to be kidding me. And so Craig's public relationship with that role and then privately. I mean, that it's the being James Bond when he's filming the last scene of No Time to Die, and he's thanking the crew and Barbara Broccoli's literally not a human. I know, man, it gets to me every time. It's so good. But there is there is a difference, I feel like, you know, when you see Craig in interviews for Bond versus Blanc. I mean, let me ask you, do you think Daniel Craig looks happier playing Blanc?

SPEAKER_05

I I I think he's the happiest he's ever been. I mean, the the Scooby-Doobie-doo. I mean, come on. I mean, Daniel Craig looks like he was given a get out of jail free card for Monopoly when Benoit Blanc came into his life.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Right? I mean, just he has a he has a swagger back, he has a smile, he's laughing. I think most of us who were Bond fans didn't really realize how funny Daniel Craig is. And I can remember all the kind of behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast with Judy Dinch and would talk about how her and Daniel would always kind of cut up and have a lot of fun with each other, you know, behind the scenes in between takes. And I think you're seeing more of Daniel Craig, the person, the actor, the creative, in this side of Benoit Blanc, which I think does, you know, to back to your question, it does. He he's a happier person, it appears, in this role.

SPEAKER_02

One of the questions I wrote down was, Is Blanc the most fun we've ever, you know, seen him on screen? And I was going through in my mind all the roles he's played, and I can't think of anything that would be more fun.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I was gonna say Logan Lucky, but I realized it's like Logan, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean he seems to be having a really good time there, but I have no idea what Daniel Craig's really like. And you're right, you you hear an interview with Leia Sedou or anyone, and you know, they're always talking about how much fun Daniel is. And I I would like to think that in a lot of ways Benoit Blanc is the most Daniel Craig character. Let me ask you this. I feel like Benoit Blanc contains more Daniel Craig than Bond ever did. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_05

100%. I mean, Benoit Blanc is a total creative venture for him. It wasn't an IP. He's doing his own thing with it. And like obviously in Bond, Craig wanted to be a part of kind of helping and and kind of go with the, you know, helping write the story, but he really is getting to create the character of Benoit Blanc. All the voice, all the humor, all the odd things with the cigar. And it's it it's an incredible thing to watch somebody kind of really hone in on something and do something different, so different from the rest of his roles.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, it Bond was inherited and Blanc was created. And I would love to read a copy of the Knives Out script. I'm gonna see if I can find that because I'm curious to know how much, what was on paper, what did Ryan create on paper, and what did Daniel Craig bring to that? How much did Craig help build that character? Regardless, you know, it's probably a combination of Ryan and Daniel, but unlike Bond, you know, the voice, the humor, I mean, it's the question that has to be asked is Blanc the first truly iconic character Daniel Craig created from scratch? And when I say Daniel Craig, I mean Daniel and Ryan, but as an actor, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, it it's the first one that he's gotten to play that's kind of like he's playing against his own image, right? He's yeah, he he left the Bond world where he he was emotional and he was using his charm as a weapon, but you know, Blanc is he's using his charm kind of like as a trap, right, to kind of find out who did it. Um, you know, I don't know. Bond was always the center, right? Daniel Craig was always the center, but Blanc kind of lets lets the story be the center, and he's just kind of on the outside looking in, kind of, you know, looking in every corner. Absolutely. The one thing that that makes all these knives out films special for Daniel is that you know he he was trying to, I mean, I would imagine he's been trying to find a way out of Bond, right? Like he he has he's gotta escape that. I mean, let's face it. Name one actor who's played James Bond that's fully escaped Bond by 2026.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no Bond actor has ever fully escaped Bond. Yeah. I mean, you got Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan. And don't get me wrong, some of the work these guys have done after the fact is unbelievable. But you can't help but to think, okay, that's James Bond playing a Russian submarine captain. You know, Roger, Roger Moore couldn't escape Bond before he had the role as Bond. Literally. Timothy might be the exception to the rule, you know, where he's had a career before and after, but it was such a you know unique period of time in the history. And then Brosnan, you know, still you know, being asked, is he coming back? and all kinds of crazy stuff. Um and and you know, but the after Pierce left the role, he did a film called The Matador. And I'm convinced it's one of the best, it's an actor-touching divinity. If you've never seen this movie called The Matador, where he's a hitman that's having panic attacks, for lack of a better word, on a job in Mexico. It is so brilliant, and I believe it was the first film he did after Die Another Day. And it's an actor getting the last laugh. I don't know. That role is was so perfect for him at that point in his career that if anyone's listening to this, please go seek out the Matador.

SPEAKER_05

And and even Pierce Brosnan, right, during COVID, right? They did for a while there, he did like a live stream, right? He like watched like a live commentary of Goldeneye on YouTube, you know, in in Hawaii. Like even then, in 2020, he can't do something that's not Bond.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not going to name any names, but I have someone who's a reporter who was interviewing him and for a film he was doing, and in the middle of the interview, he you know brought up an anniversary of one of Brosnan's performances of as Bond in this film, and you can hear Pierre sigh, and there's a silence for what feels like an eternity, and then he gives a textbook answer.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, only so much media training, right?

SPEAKER_02

Like you he played it for me and I heard it and I was like, oh my God. So, but I get it. I mean, Brosnan famously said when you're done making the film and after you've done the press, the last thing you ever want to hear is the name. And I I guess that makes sense. But let me ask you, I mean, we're both, I mean, who isn't a Sean Connery fan? And again, coming back to Criterion, we salute you, we love you, Criterion. You watch in one sitting with a club sandwich to die for and a couple of strong Negronies, Dr. No from Russia with Love and Goldfinger. Jesus, Sean Connery is just the man is a god.

SPEAKER_05

He's James Bond. I'm sorry. He's James Bond.

SPEAKER_02

He is like, there's there'll never be another Sean Connery. But what would you say is Sean Connery's second most famous role?

SPEAKER_05

I mean, is I mean, it's gotta be The Rock, right?

SPEAKER_02

Really? You think the Rock, a little Nick Cage, a little Michael Vay? Hey, I respect your opinion, man.

SPEAKER_03

That is a hot take. Okay, that that might be your favorite, but what would you I mean it might be the might be my 33-year-old age here? Yeah, I was gonna say young man.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, you know what?

SPEAKER_03

You you never say never again?

SPEAKER_02

Oh man, that is that's red hot. I I mean, I would probably say The Untouchables, which he won the Academy Award for, Hunt for Red October. My favorite role is in a film he did called Outland, where he plays like sheriff on a moon of Jupiter or something. It's right, it's just my happy place.

SPEAKER_05

I mean all kidding aside, I think, I think for my I think it's generational too. So I mean, seriously, I I you know, I I think for my generation is probably the last crusade, right? Like ultimately for for my age, kind of watching, you know, India Jones, that kind of thing. But yeah, I think that, you know, Hunt for Red October, The Rock, the Intouchables.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, this is why this I think this topic of the show is so relevant and it's such a difficult question. I mean, the question is, could Daniel Craig become the first Bond actor remembered at the very least, equally for another character? The fact that we're it's we're even having this discussion speaks volumes.

SPEAKER_05

Already, right? Like it's only been, it hasn't been that long since No Time to Die.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, so let's talk about the cultural test. I mean, which image survives?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, think about it. We're 20 years to the year, right? It's 2026 from when Daniel Craig came out as James Bond and Casino Royale, and No Time to Die came out five years ago, and we're already talking about could Benoit Blanc be his best role, most remembered role already.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think culturally. I I think it will be. I think when it's all said and done, Daniel Craig will be remembered for Benoit Blanc, and that is huge. The only thing he might be remembered for more than Benoit Blanc is coming out of the water in the Bahamas and Casino Royale. Right. You know, I don't know that you're gonna top that. Yeah, that that was a a huge moment, but I feel like, you know, for generations, future generations to come, that Daniel Craig will be remembered as playing Benoit Blanc. Right. Could you ever see Benoit Blanc, not unlike Bond, you know, it gets to a point where the character's so huge that after Daniel requires someone else would come in. I mean, that was unthinkable, you know, watching those first three movies, but it happened.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I I I th you know, there's something about, you know, Bond is Bond already has has this DNA in it that it is bigger than the person that's playing it. It will always be here. It will always evolve. There will be another gentleman taking over the role, etc., right? But I I think with I just think culturally, the knives out world with Benoit, it's totally different. I think Bond's kind of what culture used to think sophistication and you know, money and sex and luxury was. And I'm not sure that's the same today, right? In in 2026. I think Benoit Blanc is a little bit more of what culture thinks sophistication is, right? With the taste and you know, empathy and the ability to kind of, you know, look for clues and be open to different ideas and stuff. I I think that is what makes Benoit so different and unique and engaging with such a bigger audience, I think, than James Bond.

SPEAKER_02

Totally agree. You know, there's an uncomfortable truth here, and Bond, his portrayal of Bond may in fact age, but I don't think Benoit Blanc will.

SPEAKER_05

Good point, man. I mean, like spy stories, right, have been tied to the 60s, right? When you think of an era, you think of spy stories being in the 1960s, right? It was that kind of post-World War II, starting into the Cold War. Mysteries are timeless. Look look at Sherlock Holmes, look at Poirot, look look look at Miss Marple. Yeah, there's a future there. Yeah, there's a future.

SPEAKER_02

He's in and Benoit's in that conversation now.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's what makes all these films so resonant and they resonate with everybody. And it doesn't matter what culture you're from, where you're from, nationality, it people are tied to mysteries, and they are tied to these fun, but they can turn it on for the mystery and try to figure out who who did it, right?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, do you think Blanc ultimately could become this modern age detective icon?

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. Absolutely. I I think now when I I do, I'm gonna come out and say it. I think Daniel Craig's gonna go down as being remembered as Benoit Blanc over James Bond. And you know, that's kind of what started this whole thing with you and me, is that's kind of where my where where my head is. I just kind of see him really just having this renaissance in his career. I I don't think James Bond's Daniel Craig's peak. I think Benoit Blanc is.

SPEAKER_02

I'm happy to hear you say that, being considerably younger than me, because you know, Daniel's a couple years older than I am, and there's part of me that was grappling with the fact that okay, the next bond is going to be considerably younger than me. Hell, at this point, Haresy might be considerably younger than you. Um and for me, like my love of a character and an actor, you know, the way that I think people sort of looked at Steve McQueen as a beacon. I I feel that way about Daniel Craig. And I'm always curious to see what Daniel's got cooking. And it to me, as I've gotten older at a certain age, like it feels like a really logical transition for me to move beyond uh his his role as Bond and into Benoit Blanc. I was at a wedding not too long ago and I was in a three-piece suit without the jacket, and I was holding our dog, and Nellie was like, don't move. And I was like, What? And she took a photo, and then afterwards she showed me, and it it was basically the same shot that Carrie Washington took.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, that's great. You gotta post that.

SPEAKER_02

I know, I know, post it.

SPEAKER_01

So that was kind of it was kind of funny, and I was like, Yeah, I don't look like James Bond, you know, like that's over.

SPEAKER_05

I I just feel like, I mean, I I have a I I hear you on the age thing. I I I have a lot of hope that the James Bond that I love is gonna still be there with this new iteration. I I do accept that things are gonna be different, and I think No Time to Die was the end of what what once was. I I think I'm ready to to to head on to Knives Out four, five, six, seven, eight, nine and continue. I I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I you're you're Harris, if I may, you're an old soul for your age, and you know, you're always looking to generations before yours, and you know, your style inspiration is always kind of older guys from another generation. Let's talk about something that I've labeled the Ryan Johnson effect. I feel like Ryan Johnson, his writing gave Daniel Craig creative freedom that Bond never could. Yeah. Um, Bond, the Bond formula versus creative freedom. The joy of an of playing an original character. I think that Johnson's writing is highly intelligent. Ryan, if you're listening to this, you probably are going, oh God, cringing, but it's true. You know, his writing style is so intelligent and it gives Daniel Craig the opportunity to say those words. That's got to be really fun and challenging for an actor. Clearly, there's just a tremendous amount of trust and admiration between Ryan Johnson and Daniel Craig. And I feel like it's just a character that they've built together. And it's it's just wonderful. It's wonderful to see, it's wonderful to talk about. I mean, if we picked, you know, a series of films, and I think these films are the best original films of the century. I do believe that this trilogy of films, as an original trilogy, um, uh the best films of this of this century. And it's just such an exciting thing to to talk about.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Is Ryan and Daniel Craig becoming like the newest, best great actor, director, collaboration we've had in the last year?

SPEAKER_02

It is, it's in the conversation. I know everyone wants to talk about Scorsese.

SPEAKER_05

What do you think that I mean, like like what do you think that Ryan Johnson sees and Craig that other directors before him?

SPEAKER_02

That is a great question. And I've got it's funny because hell or high water, we're getting Ryan on the show. And I have I've been keeping a series of questions for us. And there are two episodes. There's one where we talk, we answer those, get him to answer those questions about the knives out films, and then there's another episode that I've prep where we just all just talk about films and filmmakers that we love. So, Ryan, you've got a choice. What show would you like to come on and do?

SPEAKER_05

Please take two, they're small.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Um, but I do think it's one of the great actor-director collaborations, and it goes beyond just Scorsese and De Niro, and you know, you look at Tony Scott and Dentzel Washington, you look at Ridley Scott and Russell Crowe, you know, there's a lot of Scott and Kerry Grant.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. James Stewart. I mean, could uh could Blanc exist without Daniel Craig?

SPEAKER_02

Jesus, that is a big question, and it deserves a big answer.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, I personally think I I I think the character could exist. I just don't think we'd be having a conversation like we're having right now.

SPEAKER_02

Uh I mean, let's say George Clooney was cast as Benoit Blanc. Would it still work?

SPEAKER_05

I I probably Batman or Blanc would be this podcast episode.

SPEAKER_02

I don't I that's a that's a I mean, would we still be doing a podcast? I think Daniel that Daniel Craig has a lot to do with it. Like the the continuation of his career has a lot to do with why we're here today. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

And let's be honest, right? It's the audience, right? The audience chooses, and the audience has clearly shown they love Daniel Craig and they love what he does. Because he doesn't have this big persona outside of what he does, right? Like he's not out there in the public eye. He does his job and goes home.

SPEAKER_02

I I think there has to be, for us as fans of film, and there has to be a little of we kind of want to be that guy.

SPEAKER_05

A thousand percent over here.

SPEAKER_02

There has to be, I mean, it's the genius of anything Harrison Ford does. You kind of like, yeah, I kind of want to be that guy. Like, I want to be as intelligent, as cool, as charming, and you know, who wouldn't want to solve the crime and great clothes and John.

SPEAKER_05

I'm I'm gonna give you a little hot take here. I think that the reason that people like myself, you, other film fans, and I and and m maybe I'm gonna, you know, cause some cause some strife here, but I I think men in general love Daniel Craig because they see him as James Bond, they see him as this macho dude. He could be the definition of a quote, right, man today, but he does not take himself seriously, and he gets to play this role that is so polar opposite to anything that he's ever done. I mean, it it it might be easily the greatest gift, right, that one filmmaker has ever given to a bond actor is to be able to do this series.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's a great question. I mean, Benoit Blanc m may be the greatest gift one filmmaker has ever given a Bond actor. It is the greatest gift. That's the whole point here, folks. Is I feel like that what Ryan created and collaborated with Daniel Craig supersedes anything any previous Bond actor has done as far as breaking away from the association of playing James Bond. You actually met Daniel Craig, did did you not? I have, yeah. And what was what were those circumstances?

SPEAKER_05

Buddy, a good friend of mine, we uh got got an opportunity to to see Daniel Craig here in New York doing um kind of a live play reading. So it was like Daniel and one other actor, they kind of stood up in front of an audience and pretty much just read a script, right? And acted it out in front of you. It was really cool. And then we kind of knew knew a few folks, and so we got invited afterwards to kind of pretty much have champagne with the cast and kind of crew. So it was just kind of a cool little mingling situation. I was talking to Daniel for just a quick little bit. It was really, really nice. Really nice guy to talk to. Uh yeah, it was kind of like a real moment.

SPEAKER_02

Were you in was it were you nervous? Was it intimidating? Because I've seen the photo of you two, and he looks pretty serious.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. You know, it I'm that person that I'm fortunate that I've been able to be around a few people and I've never really gotten nervous because at the end of the day, they're just people. And I'm also not that person that wants to be like, hey, can I have a selfie? Because I just think that like you do that, you immediately become you you become not, I mean, not that I'm cool, but you become not cool in that moment. And so we weren't gonna do photos, we weren't gonna do anything like that until someone else pulled out their phone. And so someone started taking photos with them, and he was actually really cool about it. And so in that moment, I was kind of like, well, I mean, why not? But yeah, we did it. And but thankfully he was really cool, super nice, took his time to talk to us, and you know, you didn't feel like you were just talking to somebody who was like, All right, move along. He he was yeah, yeah, yeah. He chose to come out and hang out with everybody.

SPEAKER_02

Uh oh, that's awesome. So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_05

Uh it was also late at night, which is why I think that photo, you know, I think the person who was with me taking that photo, we were all we were a little jacked up, as you can imagine. So a little go-go juice. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

I hear you. Well, all right, let's do a little rapid fire questions. Just answer them as quick as you can. Harris, better character, Bon or Blanc.

SPEAKER_04

Bond.

SPEAKER_02

Better performance, Bon or Blanc.

SPEAKER_04

Blanc.

SPEAKER_02

More fun.

SPEAKER_04

Blanc.

SPEAKER_02

More personal to Craig.

SPEAKER_04

Blanc.

SPEAKER_02

Which character defines Daniel Craig's legacy? The ultimate question. If 25 years from now, a film student discovers Daniel Craig for the first time. What do you think they'll watch first? Casino Royale or Knives Out?

SPEAKER_05

Knives Out.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. That tells me everything.

SPEAKER_05

Alright, John. You're up. You ready? Rapid fire. Let's go. Better character. Bon or Blanc. Blanc. Better performance.

SPEAKER_02

Blanc.

SPEAKER_05

More fun?

SPEAKER_02

Blanc.

SPEAKER_05

What about more personal to crack?

SPEAKER_02

Blanc.

SPEAKER_05

Which character defines his legacy?

SPEAKER_02

Blanc.

SPEAKER_05

I think that tells you everything you need to know as well.

SPEAKER_02

And I think I think knives out over I think over Casino Royale. I really do. Um, but I do, I mean, Knives Out is just such a wonderful film for everyone. I love that these films, I associate them as holiday films.

SPEAKER_05

People go to these movies together with family. And, you know, going obviously, Knives Out has a big family part of the film, but it these are family movies also.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And they're again, I go back to why they resonate with bigger and wider audiences. They're just more approachable.

SPEAKER_02

We were just in Wales visiting uh Chris Wood, who is the Beatles expert that we had on to discuss Glass Onion. We were over visiting him, his wife, and they have a newborn child, and we had been out all day, and we kind of needed to stay in in this evening on behalf of the their newborn. So after she went to sleep, we all decided, you know, his wife, my girlfriend, decided to watch No Time to Die. And I'll tell you what, by the end of that movie, those two were bawling, crying, like it was so emotional. And I'm going, Jesus, let's throw in a knives out. I can't with it. You know, like I've made up my mind right then and there. Well, Harris, looking forward to seeing both you and Adriana are coming out to visit here in Palm Springs. Can't wait, man.

SPEAKER_05

We're looking forward to getting back out west.

SPEAKER_02

We one of us had the bright idea to record an episode where we we tackle all the drinks that Miles made for his island guests. That ought to be interesting.

SPEAKER_05

That ought to be a fun one. One afternoon in Palm Springs. It'll be uh good Lord, look at the world.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is. Once you sent me the list of cocktails that were everyone's quote unquote cocktail choice, I went, this might be a long list of bullet, you know.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, that's all it really was.

SPEAKER_02

I know. And on that note, folks, let's summarize this episode. James Bond changed Daniel Craig's life. He reinvented the character for a new generation. He gave Bond weight, vulnerability, and the genius sense of consequence. His run as 007 will always be one of the defining eras of the franchise. But Benoit Blanc feels different. As we said before, Bond was inherited, Blanc was created. Bond came in with six decades of expectation. Blanc arrived with a blank page. And perhaps that's why these performances feel so different. When Daniel Craig plays Bond, he's carrying history. When Daniel Craig plays Blanc, he seems completely free. Free to be funny, free to be eccentric, free to surprise us, free to disappear into a character that somehow feels both timeless and entirely his own. Maybe that's why audiences have embraced Benoit Blanc so quickly. We aren't watching Daniel Craig play a legend. We're watching him become a legend. And if Ryan Johnson continues to tell these stories for years to come, I suspect future generations may discover Benoit Blanc the same way previous generations discovered Sherlock Holmes, not just as a franchise character, as a beloved companion that they can return to again and again. As for the mystery we've been discussing tonight, I don't think it's been solved yet. But for the first time in the history of James Bond, I think there's a real possibility that an actor has created a second iconic character powerful enough to stand shoulder to shoulder, to stand beside 007, not behind him, but beside him. And that's a fascinating mystery all on its own. Until next time, this has been John Williams, Harris Thomas. Thank you for joining us inside the donut hole. Keep looking for the truth, keep asking questions, and remember, it's a dangerous thing to underestimate a man in a linen suit with a southern accent. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00

And so, dear detectives, we close the case for now. Thank you for joining us within the doughnut hole. We hope our investigation sheds new light on Benoit Blanc's peculiar brilliance and the beloved mysteries crafted by Ryan Johnson. If you enjoyed today's inquiry, consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing the case with a fellow sleuth. Your support keeps the mystery alive and the conversation delightfully afoot. This has been Within the Donut Hole, a Benoit Blanc podcast.