The Fear Of Being Seen: Confidence, Visibility & Breaking Free From Playing Small with Joanne Lazarus

Why are so many people terrified of being visible?

In this honest and thought-provoking episode of The Dragonfly Perspective, Paula sits down with Joanne Lazarus to explore the deeper psychology behind confidence, visibility and self-expression in a world driven by comparison, performance and fear of judgement.

Together they unpack why so many people hide themselves online and in real life, how old conditioning impacts confidence, and what it truly means to stop shrinking yourself to make other people comfortable.

This isn’t just a conversation about social media or being on camera.
It’s about identity.
Self-trust.
Fear.
Authenticity.
And learning to take up space unapologetically.

If you’ve ever struggled with confidence, worried what people think, or felt like you’re holding yourself back from the life you actually want…...this episode will resonate deeply.

Knowledge is power. Awareness is freedom. Travel is living.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the Dragonfly Perspective. This is a space for seeing clearly through travel, business, and real life. We explore what's real, what's not, and how to trust your own intuition in a world that often pulls you away from it. These are conversations about awareness, discernment, and building freedom in a way that actually feels right. I'm Paula Fern, and I'm glad you're here. Today's guest is someone who helps people to be seen, not just on camera, but in themselves. Joanne Lazarus works with business owners and entrepreneurs around confidence, visibility, and showing up authentically in a world where so many people are hiding behind perfection, fear, and self-doubt. What I love about this conversation is that it goes way beyond social media tips or how to look confident online. This is really about identity, self-trust, fear of judgment, and the stories that people carry around that stop them from fully expressing who they are. Because so many people aren't actually scared of the camera, they're scared of being seen. So today we're diving into confidence, conditioning, visibility, reinvention, and what it really takes to stop shrinking yourself and start taking up space. Welcome to the Dragonfly Perspective, Joe. I'm so happy to have you here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Oh my gosh, where do you want me to start? There's a lot. I'm I think I'm I'm very old uh to be in this game, so I've got a lot to tell you about me. Okay. Can I tell you about? Okay, so the main thing that I've always been all my life is an actor.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

And I wouldn't say I'm a successful actor in the acting industry, but I'm successful at being an actor, and that's helped me move on in life with my skills and my um the way I think, the way I the way I see people and the way I see the world, basically. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

What have you acted in, Joe? Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Okay, so this is a long time ago now because um the world has changed where acting's concerned. Um when I was younger, and I might be going back about 15 years, I was in Coldfeet, I was in Benny Dorm, good old Benny Dorm. Yes, used to live there for a little while, so I got myself a nice little uh job on there. And I've been in, oh my gosh, I've been in TV commercials, yeah, in other dramas. Um one with John Thompson, I can't remember what it's called, Stan the Man, it was called for ITV. Yeah, and more recent, which was actually now, I keep saying last year, but it was two years ago, Time Moves On. Yeah, short film, and the leading lady was Maureen Litman. So I played her neighbour. So I was in a film with Maureen Littman. Literally, I reckon that was about 18 months ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

From that is incredible. She's like she's like a golden oldie, isn't she? She's incredible, Maureen Litman. She's a legend, she's absolute legend.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

So when I found out she was the neighbour, I'm like, what are we then? And my role was to be upset with the neighbour. So it was quite uh uh privileged, privileged moment to share a dressing room with her, and we had the same makeup artist and everything. So yeah, easy.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

What experiences you've had now. How did you sort of go into what you do now, which is getting that confidence in front of the camera? Obviously, you've had that confidence whilst you went through the acting journey. How have you moved into sharing more with people about getting visible in the business? How did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, first of all, let me tell you, I'm not always confident, but can we hold that thought for afterwards? So if that might be something that could come up in the acting industry, um, I just feel it was so I say that again, what what you said, because I was I was thinking of the it's all right.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

So, how did you convert and move into what you do now for business owners?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So I think it was something I've always wanted in my head. I've always wanted to be my own independent um self when it comes to earning an income, earning money, because you cannot pin an actor down. You just can't can't give an actor a nine to five job. We we we just don't do it. No, so I think it was could have been just before lockdown, I started going into the world of networking. Yeah, um, I had uh an idea for a business, I was forever doing something. I was one minute selling bass bombs, one minute selling uh making and selling candles. And so I started uh attending something called Mothers in Business, Mum's in Business. And it was there that you'd stand up and you'd do um a 60-second intro. And that I would just stand up and and and talk, and people would come up to me and say, Have you just done that? You've just stood up and you didn't even mind. And I said, I don't know, I just did it. So then I had people coming up to me asking me questions every single time. How do you stand up and say your 60-second intro? Yeah, um, and it started from there, and then then somebody said to me, Joanne, make a business of this. You obviously have a skill, you have a skill set, but I wasn't confident enough to make a business of it at that time. Then okay, I didn't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Incredible. So, how did you grow that confidence to start moving into that business?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

So, something called lockdown came up. So it um my candles, my bath bombs, and whatever standing on markets on a you know, craft stalls and stuff. That all went out the window. Plus, I had a job. So um working at Manchester United Football Club as a tour guide, it all stopped, everything stopped. Um, so I retrained, I re I took the time to retrain as a wedding celebrant. Yeah. And it was then that things started to change a little bit because by now I'm going back into these network meetings now as a wedding celebrant, but the world was beginning to change because of lockdown, things were online. Yeah, we were starting to go into this online world. I mean, Zoom, I'd never heard of it until lockdown, and now I'm never off it. Yeah, Facebook was only something I would put my dinner on before. Now I'm using it as a business tool. So I think it was then my mindset started to pivot, yeah, but I still never actually had the confidence myself to bring what I'm doing now out. I reckon a year ago. I'd I'd tried it, I'd bought courses. You know how you you see a course and you buy it online, or some guru is doing some master class and you, oh, I'll do that, I'll do that, and then you enroll. So I would do, but I I was getting some answers, but I wasn't, I was getting the you have to do this and you have to do this and you have to do that, but I wasn't being taught how you do this and how you do that, so that wasn't until I'm going to say a year ago that I actually learned all of that.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Do you know? I think you've got a really unique spin on the way you do things, and we'll talk a bit more about that in a moment. Okay, I think what we can do is stop ourselves from actually going and getting the thing that we really want, and we do that by thinking, I need more qualifications, I need more course time, I need to learn more, and I think sometimes we hide behind that because I've done that myself.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Definitely. We all think we we're not as good as somebody else. It's kind of called an imposter syndrome, absolutely. Um, and I think you've got to get out of this imposter syndrome mindset. You've got to stop thinking, what if I'm speaking to somebody who knows more than me? Yes, if they know more than you, it that's not the biggest deal in the world. What they might not know something you don't know, and and I've and I'm I'm going to tell you something, Paula. A little thing which what stopped me um from doing this is thinking everybody knew more than me. And then the questions change, not how do I stand up and do that? It's how did you put them captions on your reels? Okay, this is interesting. Yeah. I'm like, what? You don't know how to put your captions on. Yes. Because to me, it was like an everyday thing. No, I don't know. So then I started showing people how to put the captions on, which is actually what I'm doing at the minute. I'm I'm I'm helping people, you know, turning up online in an easy way, but looking more professional by putting your captions on and blah blah blah. So the question started to change, and I realized I already knew what those people who asked me the questions didn't know. And I thought, okay, there's a lot of people, there's a whole wide world out there, yes, and not everybody's going to know everything you know. I mean, if you were to tell me um what you speak about, there's no way. I mean, I know what you speak about, but there's no way I know what you're speaking about. Do you understand?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

And I think sometimes we fall into when you have that knowledge or when it's something that comes naturally to you, you just assume everybody else knows it. And it's not until you go to networking events like you've mentioned and and actually speak to other people and realize they don't know as much as I do, so let's get it shared. It's a way to do it. Exactly. So a lot of people say that they hate being on camera, but usually it's much deeper than that. That's not the sole reason. What do you think people are actually afraid of when they avoid that visibility in business?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

There's a lot of judgment out there. It's what will people think of me? Um, what will my friends think of me? What will my family think of me?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Am I good enough to be out there? What if I say something wrong? Or it could have been that what I am finding a lot of people, um, when they were three, four, five, somebody in their childhood or a teacher at school told them they're going to amount to nothing. Or somebody might have said, Oh my god, um uh your nose is really big. So then they've gone through a life thinking, well, the nose is really big. Um they've gone through a life self-sabotaging themselves because of something somebody said to them, that one comment somebody might have said to them years ago, and they've stopped themselves from moving on or going online because they believe they don't deserve to go online because um uh Auntie Pat from years ago said, Oh, look at that, her nose is too big, or look at those curly, look at those curls, she's a redhead. Um, you know, for years I cowered away because I had red curly hair. Um I wasn't like everybody else. I was I was the one at school, the only redhead. So I can I I I can understand what people say, um, why they don't want to go online. And and so people are stopping themselves from going online because of a thought process that they've got. And they they just can't change the thought process, that one thought process, until something happens to them and they think, Do you know what? I can change this thought process. I am me, I am who I am. And they give it one go and they go, Oh, I survived, it wasn't so bad after all. And then they they do it again, and then eventually they realize that well, they're not so bad after all.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yes. Now you mentioned about confidence earlier, and you mentioned that confidence wasn't something that you necessarily had in abundance when you first started this. Now, do you think it's a skill can't learn how to be confident? Do you think it's courage? What do you think makes you confident? What is it that you need to tap into to bring that confidence to your life?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

All confidence is is having the courage to give it a go. It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. It could be nothing that anybody's got to um harp on, nothing that think, oh god, I'm not confident, so I can't do that. It's a it's a thought process of thinking, hmm, I'd like to give that a go. Oh, I I wouldn't mind. Um I'm just trying to think of another example. I I I wouldn't mind um maybe walking into that room, but I just can't do it by myself. But try it, give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And what I mean, maybe maybe doing a podcast, for example. I know that you've been on podcasts before, but I've had a few guests, and it's the very first time that they've been on a podcast, and the first time they've felt safe enough to put themselves out there, and it's having that go, it's just having that first attempt because we do make mountains out of molehills, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, but I guarantee once you've been on one podcast, they'll want to go on somebody else's, or they might even make their own podcast, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

It it can just having that go. It's like I'm gonna give you a mountain as uh uh as an example. Yeah, um, you can't climb a mountain, okay. So you might not be able to climb Everest, but maybe give Snowden a go, or maybe give a small hill a go, maybe give a small step towards the base of the mountain a go. Just give it a go. And if you don't want to climb up for whatever reason, stand there at the bottom and admire the scenery, but don't not go, don't not get in the car and go to where that mountain is. Be involved in the mountain, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Do it messy as well, it doesn't have to be perfect. And I know you talk about this a lot in the content that you share. Nothing has to be perfect, but you've got to give it a try first.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Because more you're repeating things as well, you're learning more skills every time and what not to do in the future.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

But it's if you don't give something a go, then you're never going to do it. Because if you wait, I had a conversation with somebody the other day. I do branding shoots and I do branding days, and and she said to me, I want to come on your day, but I'm going into I'm pivoting my business, so I'm just waiting till I've I've got this and I've waited until I've got that. And I'm uh I thought I'll do your days next year. And I said, Why? Why why don't you just have it now as a grounding? You know what direction you're going into. Do the branding. It doesn't mean uh, you know, take the pictures, and then you can use those pictures on your way to your journey, and then when you're further down the line of your journey, you'll have the skills to take more pictures. And she said, You know what? You're right. She came on the day and she said, I can't believe I was saying no to this.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

I I I have a theory about saying yes and saying no. Um, because I believe if you say no because you're not confident about giving something a go, you're stopping what could be the biggest opportunity of your life, but you'll never know if you say no.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Oh wow, yeah, I've got goosebumps. It's so true, isn't it? You don't know what's around the corner. Now, was there a moment in your own life where you realized that you'd been shrinking yourself? Because I don't see you as someone that kind of you're not a wallflower to me, Joe. You are kind of in the thick of things. I love your energy, I think it's amazing. But was there a time when you were playing small when you wish you hadn't necessarily? I know everything is a learning, but is there a moment in time when you thought I'm not doing this anymore?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Okay, tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I got overwhelmed yesterday. Yeah, um, something good has happened. I'd I'd done a day, um, so I it I planned um what I call a branding, a content brand, a confident content branding day. Yeah, and I planned it for 10 ladies and I sold it out. Yes. The 10 ladies came on my day, and it was a great day.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And I came home and my mind was telling me, did I do it right? Did I do enough? Did they enjoy it? Did they really think I did a good job?

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yesterday I couldn't even open my diary. I didn't, I didn't want to even I put a post on just to remain visible. I just decided um I I'm not worth it, and I watched television. And I gave myself permission to have a day away, which is good. I was feeling um which is strange because I just the day before I'd had a very successful day.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

So I'm I'm I'm wanting to tell you how I felt now, but yeah, the answer to your main question is it's last year I started changing my mind because I'm not getting any younger, I'm getting older. And I heard somebody say, and it was as simple as this where will you be in 12 months' time if you carry on doing what you're doing now? And I thought, bluming hell, that's right. I'm I'm only going to be the same person, I'm not gonna meet any further on. So I decided to um get a mentor, basically, and that mentor helped me change my mindset. Or if you don't want a mentor, you can always ask a good friend to you know to to this always to discuss things, and I think it was that fact of being told or being informed that just give it a go, Joanne. So basically, he was telling me what I've been telling other people, but just on a bigger scale, and I'm like, I can't do that, I can't do a course, I can't deliver a course, and he said, Why? And then I'm thinking to myself, he's saying to me what I'm saying to other people, why can't you take that picture? Why can't you pick up that phone and and and press record? Why he was just doing it on a different scale because he's been 15 years ahead of me, yeah, and I'm like four years thinking about it since lockdown, yeah. Um yeah, I think we all have our own bits where we're feeling small, where we're feeling not the confidence.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I'll be honest, Joe. If if we didn't have that, and if I was surrounded by people that didn't have that, they are not my people. Because we're on this journey and it's a growth journey, and we always have a next level to meet, and we always have doubts. We we're human and we should have some doubts because if you're all if you're completely full of yourself and you know that you can do no wrong, that's an alarm bell for me. Very much so. Very much so. So being so honest about that, thank you for that, sharing about yesterday, because you there's a there's a come down that you have after an event as well, and when you're the host of it, it's even more of a low, even more of a dip sometimes. So you do need to give yourself that permission. I can imagine you're an absolute rock star, I will be honest, because I was asking myself, Joanne, what is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

You've just got 10 ladies, the most amazing experience, and the way it was arranged, there was food, they they they they had slides, they had they I gave them um they went away with with a guide on their phone of of a whole list of ideas for doing different shots, um shot list, and I worked really hard on it. Yeah, yesterday I thought I think I'm just gonna go and get a job and not have to worry about any of this. It was it was a weird concept of it, and I thought, Joanne, just put your diary away. And I closed my laptop, and I actually watched Coronation Street, and I decided to watch a Netflix um drama, and I watched three episodes of it back to back.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Okay, and that you Know what that's good because congratulations on your event and congratulations of realizing that you are human. It's okay to have that downtime. How are you feeling today? I'm a lot more positive today.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Um I I'm feeling like I need to move on now with my work life. Um because if I'm if I'm not going to do it, then I'm all this is for nothing.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

And the thing is, it's so much easier to pass advice um to other people rather than taking that advice for yourself. I know. I do that all the time. And then I chat with friends that are in similar industries to me, and they're like, Oh, I'm really tired. I feel like I'm burning out. And I'm like, You were telling us how not to burn out recently. So come on, take your own advice, and we'll give that advice and we'll do our own, you know, we never take it ourselves, and we've got to be kinder.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what I did do this morning. I went for a walk round. Um, I I I I I live in a flat, so I'm in my kitchen at the moment. Yeah, and just outside there, yeah, um, there's a little pathway, and that pathway, I turn right, and to right behind here, I've got a lake. There's a nature reserve.

unknown 23:20

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Um, which is part of the reason why we I was attracted to buying here.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Um, and I like to take myself um for a walk. Yeah, not every morning. Um, and I I've walked twice round the lake today. The sun was shining, and I I take a coffee in, I don't know where it's gone. No idea. It was over there. I've got one of those jug, not a jug.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I know what you mean, and I can't think of the word myself.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Um and I put mushroom coffee in it and I put my collagen in it, and I I went for a walk around. Um, I like to take a few pictures, which I'm going to do a reel later on, and I like to start my day off like that because I I do believe, and I'm not what's the word? I'm a city person. I'm I'm I'm not a um oh, how can I put it? I think there's a little bit of me that is a bit woo-woo, but I'm I'm not all woo-woo if you know there's a little bit of me. I love I love being in nature, um, but not all the time. So there's a bit, there's a big thing of me. I love going out in the morning and listening to the birds. Yes, it relaxes me. And and I don't put any podcast, I see people walking and they've got podcasts in your ears. And I'm like, get the podcast out. No, no, no, listen to the birds, yeah. And it's it really does. Um, I mean, you might understand more than me why it it it really does um help you carry on with your day. Um I did that this morning because I thought I deserved to do that, so I I did that before doing anything else. I knew I was on a podcast with you today, and I just thought to myself, because of the way I felt yesterday, yeah, which was completely to how I felt the day before. Yeah, I thought I needed to get the balance back and get me back. So I went for a walk. As simple as that, as well. I went for a walk. I had a nice sleep. I enjoyed my I actually went to bed early last night because I believe having good sleep is good. Yeah, it's key. Um really does. And uh having a walk, I had my mushroom coffee, I have one every morning. Um, I've got it really into that, and I'm uh carrying on with my day now. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

I think it's like a cleanse because that energy it can stay with you. You've got to find your own way to release yourself from that energy that's that kind of it feels heavy, doesn't it? But when you go out for a walk in nature, it's like it just kind of completely falls away. So I completely get that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Definitely, definitely, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Now, what would you say to someone who's listening to this podcast right now, who knows that they're meant for more, but they keep talking themselves out of being visible? How would you what would you advise them to do to start the thing? I think I know what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

I'm just gonna say give it a go. And I'm gonna say why give it a go because we have the luxury of social media now. Yeah, you can call it a luxury, or you can call it a um, I don't know what the word is, a thing that can actually stress you out a little bit. You just wait of looking at it. You can actually doom scroll and look at a person that you know, or a person in your industry, or or a friend of yours, and you might be able to see them living this wonderful life, living on holiday, blah blah blah, and you can you can make you know get depressed from it. Or you can look at somebody who's in the same industry as you, and they they've got the most amazing Instagram, and they've got um 10,000 followers, and you've only got 500. Um, but what you're not remembering is they've been at it five years, you might have just started out. So, what I what would I say is they had to start from the beginning. Yeah, somebody's pictures of their holiday. Um, they're just putting pictures on of their holiday uh because they're on holiday now. You might be on holiday in six months' time. So then stick your pictures on them. Great, you get you get your chance to do your holiday pictures, so don't be jealous of anybody, just congratulate people, be pleased for people, and don't let a negative feeling because you're doom scrolling stop you. So I'm now 62 at the time of this recording, and um, all I can say is when I first started out doing my own business, I was 20 in my 20s, and it it was my very first my own business was working for Auriflame skincare. Yeah, and in those days there was no no Facebook, there was no um nothing like this. I was told pick up your diary, go through your diary, um, phone all your friends, and it wasn't a phone like like a like a mobile phone, it was a it was a phone that was stuck on my wall and I had to dial it, yeah, whatever. And I was even told speak to everybody you know, speak to five people today. And I'm like, who? Who? I'm not seeing five people. Well, then speak to people in the supermarket queue. I'm like, I can't. So I so don't go and speak to people who standing in front of you in a supermarket queue, but have the have the luxury of speaking to five people, 500 people, 50 people, whatever, on here. So who is going to hear our podcast today? You know what I mean? It it could be one person, it could be 10 people, it could be 100 people, it could be a thousand people, but we are now in a luxury of living where we can be online, be seen online, be seen as us. That's a big thing, by the way. I was wanting to and I want to bring that up in a minute. Be seen as us, be seen as you, and because you only you can be you. So the only way somebody's going to get to know you is if you put yourself out there. And because we've got this amazing platform, look at it as in the olden days when I was younger, in the olden days, oh my god, Joanne, um, your business would have been hiring a shop, higher or buying a shop, a bricks and mortar business where you're waiting for people to come in and buy your services or your products. Now all we have to do is go online and say, Hey, look at my skincare. Hey, I'm selling electricity packages, or hey, um, this is what I'm selling, and and and and I believe have the confidence to get out there to just come on here and give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah. You mentioned something before we started recording, and we'll wrap up with this. But you talked about there being a trust recession, and I know you wanted to bring that in. What do you mean by that, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So a trust recession at this minute in time, um, because of so much social media, we've got Facebook, we've got Instagram, we've got TikTok, we've got Tic Tac, we've got TikTok, we've got LinkedIn, and there's something out there called AI. So we've got Chat GPT, everybody's going on, we've got Claude, everybody's going on, people are making their own bots, and through those, um, you can make yourself look like you are glamorous, you can make yourself look like a cartoon character, you can make yourself look like you're a size eight when really you're a size 20, things like that. Yeah, so what I'm seeing a lot of is and and and I'm not saying not to use it, have fun and use it for fun. Yeah, I mean, I've done it, I've I've made a cartoon character of myself, I've I've made myself into, you know, what do I look like with long hair? What do I look like with short hair? What do I look like if I was blonde? You know, things like that. What do I look like a superwoman? I've made myself look like superwoman.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

But where it comes to my business, okay, so let's let's be a CEO of our own business. Just because we're a one-man band, we are our CEO of our own business. Now, what I have seen um is people who I know, they're gonna put pictures on of themselves looking like that they're 15 years younger, looking very glamorous, looking um two side, two dress sizes smaller, and that's fine. I'm I'm not knocking it, but what if I was to think, okay, so I'm going to buy um uh her products. What if I actually get to meet her and do a zoom or something and she looks nothing like? Well, sorry, I I thought you were 40 and and you're clearly um 80. No, I'm joking, that's that's a yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, are you gonna trust that person? No, because I I I just believe that you should be in a trust relationship, and if somebody is seeing you for who you are, so if I want to buy something from you, Paula, I I I want to buy it from you. You know what I mean? So if you are in your shop that I keep going on about and you're behind your counter or you're in your salon and I'm coming in to get a treatment or whatever it is, yeah, I know who you are. You're my um my nail technician, you're my beautician. I'm I'm just you know, hey yeah, I want to go to to um Paula, she's my my regular nail technician, and I'm I'm just using it, thinking of anything in my head now. Yeah, you have a trust with that person, yeah. Can I trust somebody who doesn't look like themselves? So when I do see them, I'm like, is that you? You're like, hold on, it is that you yeah, not sure. And also one thing is oh no, my bell's ringing. Hold on, can I just very quickly go and just buzz my just one minute, sorry. And also there is something. Have you ever heard of the word parasocial relationship? Oh, tell me more. Okay, so parasocial relationship, and it's happened to you and I. It really has happened to you and I. So you meet somebody on Facebook, you meet somebody because you're in a group. So, say, for example, you're in a networking group for argument's sake, yeah? You're in a networking group, you join their Facebook, and you end up connecting with people. So you I I could see one of your posts, Paula, end up chatting to you, I get to know you on Facebook, yes, and then that there's a there's a trust there coming on, there's a relationship starting. I could have bouncy with you, but I've never physically met you. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Then there can be a point where I physically meet you in person, yeah, and that there was this particular point. We did meet, yeah. You came and we met, and it felt like I knew you. Yes, so that's because I allowed you and you allowed me to get to know each other, yeah, through people, through comments, through pictures. So A, I knew what you looked like. Now, if I would have seen a picture of you that was AI, yeah, and say you put a picture on of you that was uh the one I'm describing before, like you know, you make yourself look younger, yeah, you make yourself look thinner, fatter, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Um, am I allowed to say the word fatter? I'm not sure. Larger. Sorry, sorry for people out there who are um I shouldn't say the wrong words, but if you don't make yourself look the way you look, yes, so when I would have met you, I would have gone, oh, I didn't know that was you. You don't know why I'm gonna want to do a podcast with you.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Do you understand what I mean? Do you know? I understand exactly what you mean because that has actually happened to me. And I went to an event, and this person was there at this event in the back, like in the background, because it was someone that was organizing part of this event. It was a while ago now, and I did not recognize. I walked past her and I messaged her on social media and said, I want to meet you and actually chat with you about a possible sort of something that we were going to work on. And I walked past her because I didn't recognise her, and um, she's amazing, and I love her to pieces, but it does happen, it happens quite regularly, and you don't necessarily know what they look like, what someone else looks like, unless they've got a genuine picture on.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yeah, but but then there was a girl recently, she's from South Africa, and um we were going to the same event in the UK, and she booked me to do a branding shoot with her when we met just before this event, and she was exactly how she looked. So when we saw each other, we'd never met each other, but she booked me. She'd she'd we'd we'd discussed what she wants to do with a branding shoot. When she came, I went, ah, and she goes, Joanne, and we hooked. I hooked a girl, I've never met in my whole life. Yeah, I've long lost friends. That is a parasocial relationship.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

I mean trust that's a trust recession. So because of AI, we we've lost that. So back to the confidence, yeah. If you have the confidence to show up as you, yeah, you're gonna get that parasocial relationship, you're gonna get the trust, and you're gonna sell your products and your services.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yes, I love this. Thank you so much, Joe. That is incredible. So much good advice as well. Thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap things up now. Um, I'm so grateful for you being here. But before I do, Joe, where can we find you? Give us your details where we're gonna find you.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

So you can find me on. I've not heard all of it. I'm looking forward to Trace, Trace Creed, hello. There's my door, yeah. The door belt in the middle of it. Yeah, she's come round for a cup of tea um or coffee. So um, so I just pushed her out of the way then. No, don't push her out the way. I'm looking forward to hearing the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Um you on Trace, by the way. Sorry to interrupt you, Joe. Trace, you need to you need to be on here at some point.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

No, and I promised you I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

You will, yeah. Say again.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

I said we still haven't had that catch up coffee.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh no. Anyway, sorry. Go Joe, tell me where you are.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

You will find me on uh Joanne uh Joanne Lazarus, the confident you on Instagram. I do have a link tree, which I can't remember what it's called at the minute. I just think it's called Joanne Lazarus.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I have a link tree, and that's what I'm using. And I'm just about to have a lovely banner and um lovely banner made with a QR code, which will go to the link tree, and then through there, you'll be able to find me doing whatever it is I'm doing. So the one QR code, the one thing, so I'll I'll send it you.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate you being here, and I'm so grateful to you for being so open as well about the last few days. Incredible. And this conversation, it's been such a powerful reminder that confidence isn't about becoming louder or more polished or even pretending to have it all together, because we all have moments where we're not. Real confidence comes from self-awareness, from understanding where your fear comes from, from deciding you're no longer going to let shame, judgment, or other people's opinions keep you hidden. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who's been doubting themselves or holding back from stepping into who they really are. And remember knowledge is power, awareness is freedom, travel is living. Thanks for listening.