The Actors Ally
The Actors Ally is a cohost/interview style podcast with long time actors/acting coaches Kaiya Jones and Kate Ellis. Asking important industry questions to be advocates and a support network for actors and their families everywhere!
The Actors Ally
not all actors are extroverts
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On first site it might appear that all actors are extroverts. It is after all a highly extroverted career. Or is it? 🤔
If an introvert is defined as 'someone who enjoys quiet and prefers to spend time alone', how does an introverted actor survive a day in their chosen profession. Whether standing in front of a camera for self tapes 🔴, on set surrounded by crew🎬… updating their socials 🤳🏾, red carpet appearances 📸 or going to wrap parties. 🥳
But when Kaiya and Kate delve into the world of the word…and the innate gifts that come with introversion… It might be the very thing that makes someone a perfect candidate for acting. 🎭
And those wrap parties? That might be harder? Kate and Kaiya have some ideas about this too for all you introverted actors out there. 💛
Thanks for listening! ❤️
Would you like to work with Kate (Coaching) or Kaiya (actor and coach)? 🎭
Questions? ✉️ Email us: theactorsally@gmail.com or Dm us on instagram @theactorsallypodcast
The Actors Ally podcast would like to acknowledge the original owners of the land on which we meet today, the Warundry people of the Kulon nations, and we pay our respects to elders past and present, the original storytellers.
SPEAKER_02Hello, my name is Kate.
SPEAKER_00Hi, my name's Kaya, and we are the Actors Ally Podcast.
SPEAKER_02So this episode, uh, we're going to speak to the gifts an introverted perspective can give to a predominantly extroverted job.
SPEAKER_00We'll look at some of the actors in our field who identify as introverts. Think Michael B. Jordan, Harrison Ford, and Emma Watson.
SPEAKER_02We'll talk to some of our own experiences and how introverted actors can come back to their quieter, maybe nana energy and self around a job and in a world that seems to have gone totally nuts for extroversion. Hi, Kaya. Hello, how are we today, Kay?
SPEAKER_01No, we are good. We are good.
SPEAKER_02We're good. How are you? I should ask.
SPEAKER_00Good. Great. Excellent. Happy to be here. It's funny, folks. Everyone listening. We've just both had really, really busy weeks, and it seems hilarious that today we are talking about potentially being an introvert or a more introverted person in an industry that is definitely made more for extroverts.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes, yes. This is this is probably the closest we're going to get in our busy week to a breath moment is like having chats in a podcast. Um and and introversions or or I should say introverts, we need a breath moment, don't we? We need a breath.
SPEAKER_00We'll take it. We'll take what we can get.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you are my breath moment always. It's like delicious. It's an energizer, it's beautiful. Um, I think we need to define some things first. Do we go to the dictionary?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Okay, let's go. Dictionary definition of an introvert. So says here, an introvert, someone who is shy, quiet, and prefers to spend time alone rather than often being with other people. And that is the Cambridge dictionary definition right there.
SPEAKER_02And if I can chime in just because uh I know my actors know that I love a thesaurus as well. I love to create a world around our words. Um, when we go into the Thesaurus, the synonyms around introversion, there's some really interesting words that come up, including introspection, which uh yeah, we might get into a little bit, self-realization. These are the worlds of the word of introversion um or introvert, and self-discovery. Self-discovery. Interesting, interesting. Do we need to know what an extrovert is too then? Okay.
SPEAKER_00I think I think we do. Do you want me to read that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you can read that. I love it.
SPEAKER_00An extrovert, a person whose personality is characterized by extroversion, a typically gregarious and run unreserved person who enjoys and seeks out social interaction. And that is the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition.
SPEAKER_02I my heart rate just went up a little bit when you read that one.
SPEAKER_00Why? Because you were like, oh my gosh, is someone gonna ask me to do something incredibly social?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was like, oh god, do I have to go out now? Is what's happening? I just had this like immediate response. Isn't that hilarious? And I think if you know, for any of my actors, you know, that I work with, you know, acting schools, if they're listening in right now, they're gonna go, What? You're like so energetic. You it's like it's annoying you've got so much energy and and so into the social when you teach, and we'll get to that in a minute.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I would love to know, Kate. I mean, I'm sure we can guess by now, but how do you identify? Are you an introvert? Are you an extrovert? Are you perhaps an introverted extrovert?
SPEAKER_02I've heard of those, I've heard of those. Um I love that moment of silence for listeners, but Kaya was cacking herself. Um here, Kaya, um, how do I identify? So I identify as an introvert, absolutely. Um, I'm looking around my home right now while we're recording, and it is books, and I'm looking at my cup of tea in front of me now, and that provides the exhalation I need that your reading out of the definition of extrovert did not give me. Um I'm looking at books, I'm looking at my beautiful dog, my hound, just kind of lying effort effortlessly and luxuriously on the couch, and I'm like, that looks good. That looks really, really good to me. I have two rocking chairs in the house in corners, so that I can just kind of retreat to. I am indeed an introvert, and there's many ways I think that um we can talk to introversion, not just this this dictionary definition. We will get to that. Um, but I need to ask you, Kaya, may I ask, how do you identify?
SPEAKER_00This is an interesting one because I think this is really my definition of that and how I identify has changed over time. I would say now my definition is more towards the introverted side, but I think more introverted extrovert is the way that I would go about defining it because I really need social interaction and then I really need solo reset time. And for me, that's that's the balance there. But I think um this industry is a really interesting one, and you know, being a young child who started in the industry at 10, this is an industry that celebrates extroversion, encourages it, right? And I think I was, you know, high-functioning, high performance child, go, go, go all the time. And that really served that time in my life. But I think over time what I've realized is that's not always me. I need to take the pause, I need to take the reset, otherwise, I'm just gonna completely burn out. Whereas I have very close friends who are extroverts and they get energy from other people, which is just wild to me. Like if they're exhausted, they're like, I need to socialize. Whereas I'm like, okay, I'm like, I need to go to bed with a book and a tea.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think that's the tricky thing for me sometimes because I definitely know, like, when I am working with actors, when I'm in that part of my life, I I do, I get so much energy from it. But I think I read somewhere once that it's kind of how you feel after the moment that can kind of tell you which way you go. Um, and for me, it's definitely like I need really solid, quiet time. I need that exhalation after after I work, you know, after I coach. And and like what you were kind of saying before too, and I I think about my beautiful mum here, who I love so much, it's like, you know, there are people in the world, definitely these are the extroverts, who are like, I'm so tired, I better go out and do something. And that for me, like again, my heart has started to race again. I'm like, no, you need a like I I need a bath, I need a sauna, I need a massage, like take my phone away, let's just chill. Yeah, it's interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You're right, and and that's that's fascinating as well, because you know, having spent a lot of time with you in uh in a coach capacity over the years as well, you bring so much energy and so much zest and oomph and passion, and that could definitely be seen as oh, Kate's an extrovert, but you're right, it comes with the response that you have to that situation, which we know as coaches, you give and give and give, and then you need that complete quiet, silent solo time to um yeah, like rejuvenate yourself.
SPEAKER_02I think, and maybe I'm deep diving into a part of the conversation, you know, that that might need to come a little bit later, but you know, I think that when we look at some of the qualities um that an introvert possesses that supports you, say, for instance, as an actor, it's the same thing for me as a coach. So as an introvert, I feel highly sensitive to a room and what it needs. Um, I feel highly sensitive to the other person's energy in the room. And that I think is sometimes the gift um of introversion and what it how it allows me to be almost extroverted or have the energy that I need and love to coach with. So I think there's definitely a conversation there um today too about the gifts that that introversion brings that may be the very thing that elevates me, say for instance, in this it's in this instance, to look like an extrovert, to sound like an extrovert. Um, but I'm just picking up the room, picking up the room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, exactly. I think there are, let's jump to it then. Like, there are so many great qualities that um draw an introvert or are within an introvert that makes them a fantastic actor or a fantastic creative, right? Like I think of those people who are so, and I know we've both taught them as well or worked with them, who are so quiet and unassuming, and then you give them a script or you pop them in front of a camera on a stage and they come to life. And it's like this whole other version of themselves, and you're like, where is that come from? It's incredible. So, yeah, what are some of the um the introverted parts required to be an actor or that really benefit your job as an actor, do you think?
SPEAKER_02Um, there's two that pop into my head straight away. I'd love to hear you talk to them as well. Um, but it's it's that sensitivity, and I'm gonna say specifically the listening aspects, you know. So we talk a lot about um acting as being the art of listening and responding. So it's not just a responding job, it's a listening job. Um, and I think when you're an introvert, you know, there's that that um ability to kind of almost sit still in a space, right? To sit still. And I know often we talk about listening as a as an only sort of auditory thing, but um, you know, listening is is listening with all of our senses, you know. And if you have the ability to sit still in an environment, you know, um pick up, you know, what's going on in a room, gosh, is that going to be beneficial for you as an actor? And um simultaneously from a coach's perspective, you've got 30 people in a room, you want to be reading that room and knowing what the room needs, you know. You want to be listening in a full-bodied way. Yeah. Would you would you agree that there's some of the sort of gifts that an introvert can can bring to acting and coaching?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I would challenge the sitting still part only because I have only been recently. Yeah, I've only recently learned to sit still. Um, but yes, it's it's as you mentioned, this ability to listen to the subtleties that someone who's an extrovert may not be able to pick up on. And that's not just verbal, it's energetic subtleties within a space, within people. And introverts in particular are attuned into that in a completely different way, kind of like a dog can hear sounds we can't. It's like it's another sense that introverts have, and I think that's so beneficial in in human observation, number one, right? Like observing humans and the way we work, and then being able to portray that as an actor. Um, but also in understanding nuances of space between, which we know is is um is something that we talk a lot about as um as coaches and and as actors, is like what's between these characters? What's the words that are unsaid here? And being an introvert, I think you're really tuned into that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and look, I'm not just because I love dogs, but you mentioned dogs. Um there's a reason why people there are coaches that teach animal work. We are animals, we actually are animals, and I think sometimes, you know, the perfumes that we wear and all that, the the noise that we've created, you know, has really um kind of put the blinkers on us and our animal selves and those things that we can actually, as human animals, kind of pick up as well, too, in a room. And I I talked over the top of you, but I'm so glad you challenged the sitting still, because as I was saying, and I was like, that's not resonating with me in real time and space now. Yeah. Um there is movement, of course, in introversion, of course. Um, even just that in-between space that you spoke of, you know, between we come back to actors, you know, that is a moving creative space, of course it is. But there are so many subtleties, I think, that the introvert is picking up on so um much that they're I guess uh pulling in, which can be exquisite and amazing, but also sometimes a little bit challenging as well, too. And I I sometimes worry for the introverts in the world that we've created now.
SPEAKER_00It's very noisy, very, very overstimulating for sure. And it's uh I guess we have to be clearer with our boundaries and our space and time, and that's something I'm aware of is like once I finish my work day, my phone and my watch, because that's another thing that's beeping at me, both go into a separate room for when I'm having dinner or cooking with my family because I know that I'll be drawn to it, and that'll just overstimulate me further. So, yeah, I think there's there's things that we have to be aware of, particularly in an industry as actors, that you might receive an audition at 5 p.m. on the dot. You may have something that comes in that's due tomorrow, and so it's this balance that we have to um navigate as introverted actors of like the adrenals going up and going down and and learning how and when to make space for ourselves solo within that time that's just yeah, built for extroverts, built for the highs and lows, right? And we can become addicted to that that spike in dopamine. But I think, yeah, as as uh introverted people or as the other term I'm interested in is a highly sensitive person. Um, and I I see them melding together. Um, but I think yeah, in this industry we need to be very, very bold with our boundaries, um, but also very attuned to what we want as well as other people's energies, listening to ourselves and our bodies and knowing what we need as well can be really important. But coming back to that highly sensitive person um term, which HSP. So for anyone who doesn't know what HSP is, the highly sensitive person or sensory processing sensitivity is a term coined by psychologist Elaine Aron in the early to mid-1990s. Um and it's an individual uh thought to have heightened or deeper sensitivity in central nervous system to physical, emotional, or social stimuli. So I guess, yeah, that's a lot of big words. Um, but basically, some someone who is sensorally stimulated more than the average person. Um, and these are two different definitions between that and the in introvert, but I'm wondering where is the correlation and what do you think about that within the industry, Kate?
SPEAKER_02Well, I almost feel like we've kind of answered it with the way that we shared how our introversion plays out a little bit, right? There is a sensitivity. There is a sensitivity. Um, I think about it um in terms of, you know, um, I suppose both having this this beautiful uh handshake, I suppose, a conversation for actors if if they have these skills. Um, you know, in that um you're gonna notice, say, for instance, when an actor in character, in flow in the moment, you know, like just scratches the back of their neck in a on a line, you know, you you're gonna take that in in a full-bodied way. Um, you're gonna pick that up to know that there might be a what's the word that I'm looking for? Uh another feeling that's going on for that character that isn't what they're saying. Yeah. Like I think I always go back to, you know, a character saying the words, I love you. You know, the script says I love you, but then they just slightly scratch the back of their neck at the same time. You know, an actor who is um introverted, or we can talk maybe about the two of them together, HSP, is gonna pick that up, you know, is gonna pick it up, as we should, yeah. And and so that next line is gonna come in in a way that acknowledges both what was said but also what was done. Also what was done. Um even um, I'm just thinking actually about a show that I worked on that was a lot of it was predominantly shot outside on the beach, you know, and just that very simple thing of like the the the shift in the um the wind at the beach, which of course means that we need to raise our voice a little bit over over the the the the um the wind or the the waves, right? And and that's that subtlety, that thing that you're picking up really subtly, that change, acknowledging that something of the environment has changed, the location of where your character is located in space. That's what we'd do as a human if we were talking to someone when the wind suddenly picked up or the the sea would pick up, independent of sound being like, Can you pick up your voice, please? I need to pick you up. Yeah. Umtle changes, right? Being able to pick them up and bring them into your performance.
SPEAKER_00It feels so human, like as human as we can get, right? If we're talking about humans in art versus AI and art, this is the most human thing we can get. The the extreme listening, the responding to subtle shifts in environment and you know, person that we're with or creature that we're with, um, that feels so so innately human. And there are such strong correlations between highly sensitive people and creativity. And I'm not surprised because if you're feeling more than the average person is, that's gotta go somewhere. And so, yeah, I I wouldn't be surprised if we looked at, I don't know if anyone's done any studies, probably not, but if we looked at actors and we went, okay, what of these people, what percentage of these people are highly sensitive people, or what percentage of these people are introverts? I reckon it would be quite high, to be honest. It might not seem that at face front, but I reckon it would be quite high.
SPEAKER_02Which I have to say, as a coach that just loves my artists, my heart like almost just shatters into a thousand pieces because I wonder how many of those actors out there are exhausted at the end of the day. Um, you know, because what they have done to do the gig of acting with the gifts of introversion has been spectacular, but as introverts, they need something at the end of the day. You talked about boundaries before, you know, to kind of decompress almost in a way. And I'm gonna throw in something here as well. How do you decompress as an introvert in an industry that then asks you, you know, you mentioned before the self-tapes come in at 5 p.m., or you've got to update your socials because that's your new business card, and you've got to do um, you know, you've got to look fabulous for your socials, maybe. Um, although everyone knows my socials not fabulous at all.
SPEAKER_00I'm always looking myself. They're very authentically you, and that's what's important.
SPEAKER_02So authentically me, right? Maybe that's the the blessing of being the coach, you know, no one's looking at me necessarily, but it's like, you know, how how where if if the numbers are going to be high, let's say for actors as introverts, where in 2026 can an actor decompress with what is asked of actors on top of the job now? Like, how do you set your boundaries? What do you do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's really, really challenging, to be honest. But I think the best thing we can do is know thyself. Like I mentioned earlier for a while. I thought I was an extrovert because that's what I was being presented and encouraged to be. And when I realized that I was in, I think, nervous system overload and I needed to come back to myself, that was where things started to really click into place for me as a human being. So I think creating the time for self, um, finding that wherever you can. If you can, just setting a clear boundary on that, you know, talking to family and friends or housemates, whoever you live with, and going, I need this space and time, how can we make that happen? And I know I will say I know that that isn't always possible. Sometimes you just have to put your head down and go through it and go, Okay, I can see in a week I have a day off. Great. Sometimes that's needed, right? But also knowing how much of yourself you're putting out there, how much you are giving, and at some point that's gonna tip. So, how long can you go before it starts to be burnout or detrimental?
SPEAKER_02And and being an actor is such an inherently giving career anyway. This is the thing that again, my heart breaks. It's like you've got to update your socials, you've got to do this and stuff. If you've been giving a performance that day, you've given enough, everybody. Can I just like put that out there? You've given enough, and you've given spectacularly, right? Absolutely spectacularly. I was um while you were talking, I was thinking a little bit about, so I'm um like 46 years old, so I'd lived without phones and smartphones and all that sort of stuff without the internet, even for many a time. And I I remember those actors who, you know, even in the age of no smartphones and internet, managed to manage to stay out of the spotlight and not give anything more than the performance, maybe a turn up to an Oscars event or something like that, but that we didn't really know anything about them. And there was this exquisite air of mystery. And I remember I like actually remember this. You may have even in our notes, our shared notes, gone who, but I remember Gene Hackman, the late Gene Hackman, like nobody knew anything about him, you know, and he was considered this fantastic actor. And he, you know, on the odd occasion, we kind of let people know I'm an introvert, I need my time, you know. Um, and it it was this, I remember thinking about it when I was thinking about approaching acting. It's like that's almost like such a punk move, right? As to not give anything else away of oneself when you choose to be an actor, when you're famous, to not necessarily give all the interviews about, you know, your family or or whatever it is. And there are actors who are doing a pretty damn good job of that today as well, in this age of kind of um, you know, yeah, extraversion, extroversion, put it all up online, etc. Granted, they're pretty famous, and maybe they don't need to do that, but there are actors keeping it a go.
SPEAKER_00Do we want to name a few? Like these are people still doing it in today's day and age, and I think it's worth noting that they were famous before social media. That is also worth noting, but they continue to do it. It is a possibility, right? We we all have friends that are in the industry doing really well who don't have social media. That is a possibility, or just having one where once you've got a job, you post that the job is out, but that is it. Yeah, that is also a possibility. And you can have a listen to our social media episode as well, where we delve more into that. But yeah, some actors who are introverts. Um, we've got we've got Tim Burton. I don't think that one's a shocker there.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh, one of the high the great creative highlights of my life was going to see um Tim Burton, the director's um the the big sort of retrospective that they did at Acme. Um and the first room was dedicated to the drawings that he used to do after school. He's like, Thank God, I'm home from school, I don't have to be social anymore. And went into his room and went into the worlds that he liked to create, you know, just in drawings. And you can see Edward Scissorhands there, is it Nightmare Before Christmas? Yes, all of those, all the drawings are there. Um, so you know, that incredibly that need for introverted time made him the creative that he is. It's it's wild, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00You tune into your experience and your artistry and your story and what's coming from your soul, and you don't get that unless you pause and sit with yourself.
SPEAKER_02And and you know, like you know, it's one of my big things when I'm coaching the Dr. Zeus quote, there's no you e are you than you. I always say, We've got a we've got a Florence Pew already, we've got a guy Pierce already. Who are you and what are you gonna bring to this scene, right? How do you know who you are if you haven't taken some time to pause and reflect? Um, it's a good note for myself. My brain literally went, Kate, hello. Hello. Um, have you got some others for us, some other um introverts?
SPEAKER_00We have the the one and only Meryl Streep.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Um, Amy Schumer. I actually I think a lot of comedians can be, I've heard, are introverts. I know a couple of comedians and they have uh exclaimed their introversion. Um yeah, Michael B. Jordan, Ryan Reynolds, Emma Watson, Steve Martin.
SPEAKER_02I'm going back to Michael B. Jordan's stop. He might like to sit um in one of my rocking chairs and read a book with me. That would blow my Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Actually, I have a quote from him. He said, Um, I'm naturally an introvert, but when the camera's rolling, I have to turn it on, and that drains a lot out of me. Recharging is a huge thing. Being able to find those moments to decompress and get back to neutral is so important. And so, so important when you are playing characters. Like if we think about some of the intense roles that Michael B. Jordan has played, absolutely you need that reset time as a human, number one, but as an introvert, yes, and I know both you and I as coaches are really big on coming back to self and going, okay, what do I need to return to self after this very intense scene or this very intense subject matter? Um, or even just a day of expressing, that takes a lot too. Um or or yeah, working with with casts and crews and lights and cameras and sounds and makeup and that can be quite overstimulating. So, yeah, that reset as he's mentioning is so so important.
SPEAKER_02It's so important. Wow. I'm like, I I know of a lot of introverted the Ryan Reynolds one actually really gets me as well, too. But you know, I think because I he always presents as, you know, again, you mentioned comedians, you know, with this like big energy and always got something to say. He's very quick, yeah, with with what he has to say. I've watched a lot of interviews with him. Um, and to think that, you know, he would also need that downtime, and that's maybe not where the energy necessarily comes from. That's not like the first thing that he might choose to do. But again, like I'm now then really curious to kind of delve even again into you know, why are why are all these introverts choosing this career then, you know, and and again, like what are the gifts, etc. That that um are kind of maybe an innate and natural to an introvert that would make them choose a career that is is so highly extroverted. And maybe how could we, I'm asking so many questions in one, but like knowing maybe that there's a whole bunch of introverts out there that are actors, how can we support them even on set? So not just kind of handing it over, it's like okay, we've wrapped for the day. Good luck, you little introvert, to sort of, you know, like getting your own time and whatever. Um, how can we support it during the day? I don't know. I'm just thinking these out loud now.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. I think speaking personally, like I am drawn to acting for many reasons, but one is like my feelings sometimes feel so big that the only way to get them out is to express them in a creative way. And that isn't necessarily like you know, me um myself just going, oh, I'm feeling all these things. It's like I literally need to say someone else's words or to um draw it out in another sense. It's kind of like stepping into someone else's shoes gives permission for you to explore that, and that's something I'm really, really grateful for, particularly Sophie, my character in neighbours. You know, I I didn't go through as extreme of a kind of teenage rebellion as Sophie went through, but I'm so glad that I had her as an outlet because there were so many big emotions that she was feeling that I got to secondary express through her. And yeah, being being a highly sensitive person and and feeling all of these deeper emotions, it it was a it was a wonderful outlet and permission for me to express them.
SPEAKER_02And I think you're right, there's something of this this um, you know, beautiful human being who needs permission um in their introversion, even to let a rip, you know, let a rip where maybe they feel like, and I'll talk generally about introverts as opposed to one particular person where we feel like we can't. I, you know, I think about our time on Saddle Club, my little four-episode role as Miss Amelia. That's a hundred percent not me, the human, Kate. But was I in knee high boots with a whip and yelling at kids? Um, yes, I was. On set as a character, right? And I'm not like that at all, but it gives permission. It gives permission for us little introverts. I love this to just be bold, brash. Um yeah, I like yell is such a naff word, but it's like, do you know what I mean? Like we can be bolder, maybe in those those roles. It gives us permission. Beautifully, beautifully articulated and thought to, Kaya.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, these are wonderful, like thinking about all those, you know, big, big A-list actors that I've just named there, they're such brilliant leaders, right? Even if we think about Emma Watson and being an introvert and all of the work she has done with her and for women's rights, and like throughout the last decade, even longer, phenomenal work. Not classically introverted work, but there we go. I think in order to function as a performer and as someone who is leading the way um as an introvert, the the purpose, the drive has to be stronger than that. That part of your brain as an introvert that's like just stay home. You know, just keep it small, keep the stories to yourself. The other part needs to outweigh that. And I think for these people, they've got something else that is driving them forward that goes, This is worth me stepping outside for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's interesting. I'm I'm thinking just very quickly to a lot of actors that I work with who I would classify as introverts, and um, you know, there's there's this desire to tell stories in a really big way, you know, understanding something of the power of storytelling, that there is something of a gift in what they do as actors. I wonder if that, I mean, can't talk for all actors obviously, but you know, I think that's a really beautiful thing. It's like I'm happy to have the microphone because this is an important story to tell, you know, um, or stories generally are important to tell. And I'm I'm now having another moment, and and maybe I'll think differently about this later, but I'm literally thinking this in the moment about a lot of those actors again that I work with who I would classify as introverts, who maybe um weren't uh like there, it's almost like their introversion wasn't kind of um allowed or accepted or something like that, you know, in their in their family homes. And um so they see the value and importance of stories um because maybe they had something in them that wasn't listened to themselves. So the drive to come out of their introversion is actually um, yeah, maybe driven by something they didn't get, you know. So they know that their job is so important that they have to put their introversion aside. I'm thinking of one actor that I work with in particular, no names, but you know, I can see that the need for them to have the microphone because, or the importance I should say, of them having the microphone irrespective of their their introversion, so that the kid that didn't get something when they were little, some other kid will get it somewhere else. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00So maybe absolutely it's it's a massive gift to be an actor, and it's also incredibly challenging. We know that, but the ability to decide what stories are going to be handed on to the next generation is an incredible power to have, and to be able to use your your power as a highly sensitive person who's felt and experienced all of these big things and who feels someone's energy like it's their own, to then hand that and use that as a positive to pass on to someone else is is truly incredible.
SPEAKER_02I'm now having another thought. Bear with me, everybody. Go for it. Thank you. Just in terms of, you know, like having being maybe highly sensitive to things, all of this information coming in at the same time. How beautiful could it be for an introvert to be given a script where things are streamlined, like the the feelings and the thoughts and everything are streamlined almost in a way. There's an articulation that's able to happen thanks to the writers who've done their job there. Um, that maybe, you know, it it's harder, it can be harder to process, or sorry, it's hard to process generally, maybe because you're picking up so inform so much information all the time that it could be really lovely to stand on set with a script. Um hopefully you weren't your lines before that. Don't bring your script to the set. But like, you know, that that that the the succinctness, the drafts that have been done around the writing help an introvert articulate something that maybe they've only just been feeling in big ways. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it completely makes sense because one of the reasons I act is because it feels like meditation. As soon as I'm on set and we're either counting down or, you know, sound, calling different things, getting ready for that camera to be rolling. Everything goes still. Yeah. And I think of that Matilda song Quiet, where she's talking, uh well, she's singing about being in the eye of the storm and everything else moving around her, and she's in the eye of the storm watching everything.
SPEAKER_02Matilda's magic as well, which makes me want to say, introverts are magic too, yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_00Put that on a t-shirt, sell it to me.
SPEAKER_02Introverts are magic done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yes. Yes, being in the eye of the storm is what being on set filming feels like. There is what could be considered chaos going around you, right? Like everyone doing their own separate jobs, everybody like rushing around, you are standing there and rolling, and it feels so clear, it's so still. There's one thing to do, it's pure meditation. So I would be interested to know if other um highly sensitive people or introverts feel the same.
SPEAKER_02And and I have to say, like, I I mean, and I've said this to actors literally when I'm coaching them, you know, that and it feels so akin to what you're saying. Um, I talk about it as kind of when um shows you that I'm a sci-fi nerd, but when um Neo finally gets the matrix, right? Like before that moment, you know, maybe before I'm coaching, I'm seeing all the code. I'm like, this is what needs to be done, da-da-da-da. And that actor walks into the room and suddenly I'm doing that like backward thing that Neo does. I'm like fully in the matrix. It it's uh it's a hum, you know, it's it's what you're I'm interpreting with your meditation. There's something that is just so hmm um peaceful, actually. Peaceful about it, you know, and maybe we could do a whole nother episode on being in your element, dear um is it Sir Ken Robinson and his work on being in the element? Um, we could definitely do an episode on that, but um, yeah, maybe it's just um all of our magic as an introvert finding a place and a space to be, maybe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So I guess my question to finish up is like, how do we navigate moving forward this industry that requires an extroverted self at times? Rat parties, red carpets, social media, you know, highs and lows of auditions. When they when they when it rains it pours with auditions, sometimes you have like four in a week and you're like, okay, cool, or all with the same deadline or whatever. How do we navigate this as an introvert?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the very first thing that came to mind, which is why I sort of gagged you, nobody could see it. Kyra and I can see each other. Silent gag. Rap parties, and I went, oh again, my heart. So, like, and if I may, like one of the first things I thought of was when you and I met before a rap party. Um, we meet quite Kyra and I, if you don't mind me sharing this, Kyra, I won't say names or shows or anything like that. We quite often meet before walking in somewhere. Get a buddy, everybody. Get a buddy. I love my buddy in Kyle. I love my buddy, you know, um, and you know, you can send your buddies some photos of what you're thinking about wearing to this extroverted event. And will that be okay? Marrying something of your, I would like to turn up in my pajamas, with I should be a professional and at least wear the baseball cat, Kate, you know, and something, you know, I'm we I'm literally wearing a baseball cap right now. It's like my go-to introverted, like I can hide a little bit under here, right? Um, get a buddy, introverts, get a buddy with some of that stuff. You got any ideas? That was the first one that came to mind for me. Love my buddy, hey Kaya.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, buddies are big. I think buddies are good just to, you know, I'm very um, I'm very pro uh meltdown before having to go to uh an event or a rap party. So having all those big feelings, letting them out, taking a breath, and then yeah, telling your buddy, here's what I'm feeling, and they go, Oh, great, here's what I'm feeling, and then you go in together because there's nothing harder as an introvert than walking in solo to a party. Yeah, um, makes my skin itch.
SPEAKER_02I remember as well, um, so langu everyone knows that I'm I'm really interested in words and language. I remember when one of my besties, I'll just call them Luke, one of my besties, got a massive job as an artistic director and um was a little, you know, a little bit worried about all the social stuff that you know we might need to do and whatever. And that word networking comes up, right? That word networking, oh god, I'm gonna have to network and I'm an introvert. And I remember saying to Luke, it's like, what about just like community building? Let's call it community building because you are ace at that, yeah. So maybe sometimes changing the language that we use um to kind of support ourselves through the kind of more extroverted um yeah, uh parts of the career, maybe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a language change is a great idea, yeah. Um, also maybe a time limit, going, do you know what? I'm gonna go in for an hour, that's it. Let's see how I feel. Usually I end up staying longer than that because I realize it's not as bad as I thought it was in my head. Um, or you go, actually, do you know what? I've shown up and that's great, and now I'm gonna go, right? You don't need to stay all night. I sometimes think as introverts, we make it this huge thing and it's not as big.
SPEAKER_02Can I, you said the word or the phrasing sh show up. Can I also give introverts introverts permission to show up as yourself? You don't suddenly have to be, and I don't know again, I'm probably showing my age here. The night was it that film Night at the Roxbury when they walk into a club and they're like, what's up, what's up, what's up, what's up, what's up, and then go into this kind of like overloaded robot mode of like, ah, because they've tried, they've tried too hard to be big extrovert social. Maybe you just don't even have to be introverts. Go find the couple of people. I'm thinking about the rap parties that you really gelled with on set. They're probably hiding in a corner somewhere too, let's face it. And just have a nice little chat. Watch the video. I always love, love, love at rap parties when there's the video of like what it was like on set. I'm like, huh, oh great, I'll just stand here and watch that and have my own memories. It's lovely. Um, don't have to order alcohol people. Have a glass of water. Um, be yourself. Permission to be your introverted self in an extroverted room. Lots of powerful things being done there. Go and read Quiet the Power of Introverts. Lots of powerful things have been done by introverts in an extroverted world.
SPEAKER_00That's a book by Susan Kane, Quiet the Power of Introverts. Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh, bathrooms are your best friend, right? If I go in and I'm overstimulated, just go sit in the bathroom for like a minute. No one's gonna disturb you in there, hopefully. And then come back out when you're ready, right? Yep.
SPEAKER_02And as as maybe a highly sensitive person, actually put your hands on the tiles. They're so cooling. They're so cooling in the bathroom. It's quiet. The tiles do the tiles do that really well. Just like use use the gifts of your introversion to go into a quiet place. Use your senses, calm down.
SPEAKER_00I think, I think we should maybe re-rename this like surviving the industry as an introvert.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Maybe we are. If it pops up, everybody, we we made that decision. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Look, I think what it comes down to is knowing yourself and how you best function, right? In order to give your best performance, what do you need to do? If that's actually not going to that party that's happening tonight, be even though you think you should, because you've got a gig tomorrow, um, then don't. Like it's totally up to you. It's knowing yourself and not trying to be someone else because you think that's what's going to win over the industry. Yes, sometimes we have to do things that are challenging, but also it's knowing how much energy you have to give and what's going to refuel you. And if that's staying home, if that's having a bath, if that's having a cup of tea, if that's having a one-on-one conversation with someone, if that's lying on the floor and staring at the ceiling, that's my favorite. Um go for it.
SPEAKER_02And remembering something I said earlier, if you feel any guilt or shame about not going to the party, because you should give that energy, you've given energy all day, folks. You've given energy all day.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Here endeth the sermon, maybe. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for coming. Thank you, Kaya. An absolute pleasure to talk with you, Kay, as always. See you soon, Kaya. I will see you soon. Thanks, folks. See you next time. Thank you. The Actors Ally Podcast is hosted and created by Kaya Jones and Kate Ellis. Edited by Kaya Jones. Intro and outro by Rianne Ellen. That's Rihanna Ellen Guitar on Insta. You can connect with us or ask us some questions on Insta at the Actors Ally Podcast, or email us at theactorsally at gmail.com.