#4 - Pt.2 Mark & Josee Johnson | Building Together: From Surviving To Thriving

Mark Johnson didn't start Johnson Construction with a playbook. He started with grit, poor health, no time for himself and his family....and eventually hit a wall. 

In this 2 part episode, Mark is joined by his wife and business partner, Josee. They share the honest story of how they moved from survival to stability, and what it cost them along the way.

They get into the power of having a strong second-in-command, why trusting your team is harder than it sounds, and how standardizing your processes (even just dress codes and digital signatures) creates clarity that money alone can't buy.

Josee brings her own perspective on leading from behind the scenes — and why empathy might be one of the most underrated leadership skills in any business.

This is a real conversation about the unglamorous work that actually builds something lasting.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Yeah. That's like the part that I can't I can't put words to.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I feel like I feel like what often comes back for you, and it's not necessarily like something that happens that happened, but it's like you just you want to help people. Like it like you often say that, like I want to help them not like be in this mess. I want to help them, you know, like be creative with like this problem that we ran into.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Like you just want to I don't know if that has like something you go in and it's like I like people are very like price averse, right? Like price matters to a lot of people. So then it's like okay, yeah, go with the cheaper person. And then you get to see that product and you're like, oh yeah, no, this is why it's cheaper. Like you're auditing everything as you see it. And it's like even as a home builder, you walk around and you're like, why would you do that? Like and you leave like the minute details that like matter to people that do this all the time, where like the average homeowner is not gonna be like, Oh, that's not done right. But like the details matter, right, at the end of the day. Yeah, it's like the the woman or the couple that reached me on TikTok and they saw the video of me doing a walkthrough, and they're like, Oh, this is where we live.

unknown 1:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

And they lived there for three years. And she's like, it's one of the only places we've lived in since we've been together that like there hasn't been a maintenance issue or something came apart or something broke. So she's like, we knew it was really well done. So then she reached out to our website and was like, We want to hire you because we know that it's gonna stand the test of time. So it's like we just we don't cut corners, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

But it's also interesting that like it's not often that you'll get a client that actually thinks that way. Like people won't think that until things start happening. S things start like some people do, but not a lot of people. They just they they want it to look good, which I totally understand. But then when the quality isn't there or the process isn't there, it shows right away. And it's not something they necessarily would have thought of. I I just I find it interesting that someone would you know I don't know. It's not everyone that thinks that.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah. Different perspective and mindset. You you both deal with this quite a bit where people are very price-driven in your industry, construction, wanting to get renovations done. I see it a lot as a coach, consultant. People are very price-driven. And when you talk to them, you can go with the cheaper guy and you can get it done cheaper, but it's gonna break a lot sooner, and then you're gonna have to pay probably double to get it fixed when if you just paid up front in the beginning, then you're gonna have that longevity and that quality stands the test of time, right? And so having those types of conversations, how have you been able to do that? Because you are known for quality. You're not known for being the cheapest on the block. You're not outrageous, but quality seems to be a recurring theme in your your marketing and and how you describe yourself. So why do you think Why do you think that you went on that in that direction, actually? Maybe that's my question is why choose quality versus maybe something that would get you more clients if you cut corners and went the cheaper route?

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Because we're honest people. Yeah. That you like we want to stand behind it and be like, yeah, like we did that. Well, they did that.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So it's uh it's a reflection tip back to like what you provide to somebody. So it's like you never want to think you're giving them something subpar. Right? So if it doesn't stand like the quality assurance, it's like, well, it's not good enough. Like it has to be fixed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I should start by introducing you. People know Mark by now. Of course they do.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

You were on my previous episode.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So if you haven't watched the episode uh previous to this, it would have been episode three. Mark, I would talk to you one-on-one, and you shared a lot about your story, um, the challenges that you went through and and how you got to where you are today. And it's really gonna tie a lot into the conversation that we're gonna have. And we brought on your lovely wife, Jose, who has, as you described, an angel. Uh, the reason that you're here today. And uh I might have called you the angel. Yeah. But you're a big part of Mark's story, and so that's why I just thought it was so important to make this a two-part series, and then also talk about what it's like to build a business as a husband and wife team. Uh, I also am building a business with my husband, and so uh A, I'm interested in learning your secrets, and B, just talking about what's working, the challenges. I know there's a lot of people out there that probably wish that their spouse was more involved or have a spouse that's involved and maybe having friction. Um, so I think there's gonna be a lot of value. But let's introduce you, Josie.

unknown 5:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

To BuildPro. So Johnson Construction 613.

unknown 5:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Did I say that right? Yes. It's not construction, Johnson 613, right? Johnson construction. Johnson construction. Yeah. I am branded today. Yes, I am wearing the Johnson brand. And it's um it's a business that I've seen grow over the past couple of years and has a a reputation of quality. The two of you have this like down home, uh, honest trustworthiness. You have become staples in the Ottawa community, in the real estate community, in the business community, in my coaching community. Um, you naturally hold this presence of leadership that I see and support. And so, yeah, I think it's really awesome to have you guys here.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I want to hear what is your role in the business, Josie. We've talked to Mark, is um head contractor, extraordinaire, CEO, all the things, all the things, founder.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Um what's your role? That's a good question. I wear many hats, I think. I do most of the back-end, like operation back end stuff, bookkeeping.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

She really makes the company. That's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Just you know, keep track of things, of like where we're at, what we're doing, uh, finances. Um, yeah, now that I have a VA, yes, uh, that helps a lot. Um, so she's helping, you know, alleviate that a little bit and make it better so we can do more.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

What kind of things? It's cool because the VA reports to you. Yeah. And how what kind of things is she doing to support you in your business?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

So all the things, so little things like I get the receipts, I get the payments, I get the invoices. She helps, you know, kind of keep that all on track for the jobs and stuff like that. She's doing a lot of our social media things. Um she's also just like a good person to bounce like ideas off of, and she'll just she'll help and do it, you know, and then give me like another perspective, which I found interesting because more so on the social media stuff, which is really new to me. So it's fun to have someone there. What do you think? This and that.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Um she's been with us how long? Over a year.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Just over a year.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And I've talked to her five times.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

So that gives you an idea of like how removed I am from that part of the business, right? And I still don't have my own bank card to get my nud, but baby steps.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Listen, you mean both.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

I don't know how to get into the bank. I feel like I was gonna say, I feel like it's better because then I'm gonna have to you know walk you through it all. So we're good.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

We uh we joked earlier about the parallels of us because my husband and I, he does the operations. So Mark and I are similar. We are the bullheaded visionaries, uh, and we have saints that run our life.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

That's an understatement.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Understatement of the century, and um so so grateful for it. But yes, we are babied when it comes to certain things. And but it allows, it allows us to do what we do best. And uh Mark's helping a lot of people, and all those people are impacted because of what you've done and how you've supported him. And I do want to dive into that um a little bit. But I know people are listening and wanting to know how do you structure your business? Like, how are you doing all of what you do and not being the ones that are in the weeds with everything? Can you and I'll I'll defer to Mark first on how does it work for you, Mark? Um, if you can just maybe positionally talk about how you structure the business and then Josie with the VA and the tasks and uh how you can sleep at night.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Oh yeah, that's a good question. So I um I mean, yes, I'm sitting at the top. I consider myself equal with all the guys that are working within the company. I think it's like when you look at the bigger picture, you know, you try to branch off and have people, uh like qualify people and you put them in the right position to like make things happen for you. So I'm like, what's that?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Person job fit.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, right, exactly. So it's it's taken some learning curve. Um and I think it's taken like a better understanding of like what my role should be and try not to micromanage the shit out of these guys. I think that's the biggest thing is like relinquishing the trust to them to provide that product that you've always given. So it's like, you know, like I mean, I don't need to get too detailed, but like someone like Derek. So I met Derek, you know, six or seven years ago, and we just think on the same wavelength. And if anything, now I'm realizing like he's more OCD and more detail oriented than I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

And he does it better than you.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I like to take the reins on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, another like back up a bit just so we for clarity, what role does Derek serve in the company?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yeah, so like Derek's really I'd say second in command, he's third because Joe's really in charge. I would be second.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

You're second, Joe.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, Derek's third. Like I look to Derek He's your right handman. Yeah, for the answers that like, yes, I may have an answer, but he may have a better answer.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

He's running the jobs.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, and I put full trust in him in operations to make sure things go the way they need to go to ensure that our clients get the result that we're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

How difficult was it for you to start to trust and to let go of the reins a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Because it's been so gradual, I think like if you would have asked me this five years ago, I don't think I could have made it to this point. Uming what he brings to the company, uh, it's invaluable, right? Like it's I like again, I can't emphasize the amount of trust that I put into him to perform the way that he does.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

So many overworked entrepreneurs that are having such a tight grip because they don't trust their team, they need to control everything, they micromanage. Um the team can never actually learn how to do their job when somebody's hovering over them and doing it for them first and foremost. But then when you find the right person for the job and you train them properly, you often find out they do it better than you.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, and it's I I really truly think like the people that work for you groom you to be the person you are because Liam, Liam's been with us like pushing 11 years. You know, I took Liam on as someone that came out of Algonquin under the carpentry program. Um, and I remember like after two or three years, he looked at me one day and he's like, if you yell at me one more time, I'm gonna fucking quit. And I said, I noted that really quick because I relied on him so much to perform at the level I was at. I just don't think he was there yet. Now, like Liam runs jobs by himself, he takes the ownership. You make sure that he's treated very well. We understand, like he has a family, he has to provide, so it's like he's like he's a he's a staple in the company. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah. How would you say that your management style has changed over the years to what it was, maybe at the peak of when you needed all the control to where it is today?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, I I think now I look at it and I identify my role as like a professional problem solver. Like every single day things are gonna come up. It's how you deal with them face hand. And I I hate to say pass the ownership to them, but like let them deal with in their own style to make like that problem go away. Like in the world of construction and renovations, it is constant. So it's like knowing you've set them up, I support them fully and let them make decisions, and I stand behind the decisions they make. Amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Well, you definitely had a harder time. Like the like you were saying, you know, five, six, ten years ago.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Because you're always like, oh, do it this way, do it this way. It's like now it's like, oh, you made that mistake before. So that's not gonna happen again, or in hopes that it doesn't. Um they're really good with the clients. Uh they're very transparent when something does happen, like you know about it right away. So then it's like, how do you fix it before it becomes a bigger issue? I think I feel like there's too many companies out there that like maybe cut corners or something happens and they try to try to sweep sweep it under a rug, and then like when the client does find out, it's like you've gone so far ahead. Like, how do you fix it at this point?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yep. Or they try to put it behind a wall.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, or put it behind the wall. Exactly. With all your with all critics. You didn't know me at the time. So you're forgiven.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I didn't know you, yeah, yeah. Although it was uh it was a um it was a cheap job. And I went with the cheapest, and I had uh uh for context, I purchased a house and we weren't gonna flip it to sell it, but we wanted to get it um to a certain point for the appraisal, and then um we're we're gonna demolish it down the road to then uh build, uh develop it. And I did. I went with the cheapest contractor because I didn't need it to be anything with longevity. I knew that in about two years I was gonna demolish it. But then, you know, sure enough, I guess a year and a half later, um we had complaints. We had uh uh medium-term rental in it, and we had complaints and found out that maybe you can tell it better than I can, but somebody punched a hole through what would be the toilet pipe.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, there was a plumbing stack, a toilet drain that ran down through the wall, and it looked I'm I'm gonna presume the electrician drilled up through the top of the wall and through the side of the pipe. And then you had shit water leaking in the wall for a year and a half.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

A year and a half. That was fun. But marked to the rescue, and you guys came in and you fix it just like that. And uh, you know, lesson learned from for me, even if it is a quick job, if it's not something that we needed real quality for, um, it still matters because in a year and a half's time, it um that's a short amount of time. Yeah and a lot of damage was done. A lot of damage. And when we talked to the contractor, they took no ownership of it. And it was an obvious um what's the word I'm looking for? It's one thing if there's wear and tear, but it was not malpractice, isn't the word I'm looking for, but it was um just negligent. Negligence, thank you. That's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Something like this and the walls are open, someone drills through something. If you even think you nicked it, like you would be. You gotta check that. I think like further to that is that these guys continued to work in the home and they probably caused some of that damage by flushing the toilet at one point. Yeah. You know, and it's uh sure you can give us all the credit in the world. Uh the trades guys that work for us are amazing. Um it's nice once you built that relationship with them, you make a phone call and they can come to the rescue really quick. So plumber, electrician, yeah. They're they're not only like very good colleagues, they're really good buddies of mine.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And here's what entrepreneurs need to understand is that the CEO at the top, the founder, is meant to support the team. And the team, like your job is to support the team. How do you make their life better? How do you make their job easier? The team supports the clients. Right. And you mentioned that. You said how good they are with the clients. And then the clients support the business. And it is the circle of life for the entrepreneur. But many leaders and founders, CEOs get it completely wrong. And they come, they just cut out the team and they bypass it, and they don't take ownership over A, hiring the wrong person, or B not training or leading.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

We wouldn't have the company we have without the team that acts us like that's pure and simple.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Or you would have, you know, we would still be in the same stuck position we were in years ago of just doing everything ourselves all the time.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Aaron Powell And you will stay stuck. And you guys are so big on quality, and that you can still continue to have quality because that's the culture. And it's what you are developing in your team, and you're finding people that are better than you. And that's believe it or not, I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

It does happen. I know. Not often.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Diamonds in the rock, needles in a haystack.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, for anybody starting out, it takes years to build your team of like reliable guys that you can fully put all your trust in.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I mean, it's and then you gotta you have to make sure that you keep them around and that you treat them obviously treat them properly, but you know, everyone's human, everyone has families or you know, whatever. Um, but yeah, just really notice like that also personal aspect of you know understanding and treating them well and knowing what they want and being open to so that they can come to you if there is an issue, if there is, you know, whatever I think is important.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Because when you realize it that um people, uh employees, humans are not always just motivated by money. Exactly. Circumstances, the environment, the culture that you create for them, the loyalty and the commitment that they'll have for you, it runs much deeper than the paycheck.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

It pays tenfold because when shit does go south and you make a phone call, they're there as soon as you need them. And that's like the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Aaron Ross Powell Because you're there when they need you, right? So it's it just it's like that circle like you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

And if you want to have top employees, you have to be a top employer. Right. And so that leads me to you, Josie, because you've been doing a lot of work in the back end with the administration, the policies, um, and even if that's not considered the sexy work, it's important because it standardizes your business, it structures your business, it helps give certainty to your employees so that they know what to expect. Right. And that there's no chaos happening in the background. And there's a sophistication that comes with that that will draw in top candidates. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

I'm not gonna like I'm gonna preface this with like it's still a major work in progress, but it does feel more in control. Yeah. And when you feel like it's more in control standard, it's easier to relay that to your employees and hold that expectation. Um, when you're not sure or when it's wishy-washy, or when you know you're not 100% like locked in on your decisions, it's harder to relay that and be on it. So um, yeah, it's still a work in progress, but I see a difference. Like it's it's like this is why it has to be this way, and this is why we created this policy. Um, it just makes us better for it, and let's move on.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So a lot more control. Yeah, it's not like direct control to someone, it's control when you look at the bigger.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

It's controlled, like it's it's just seems more tight. Yeah. Is that a good idea?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

No, I think I think so, because now everybody knows what to expect. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

But then it all Also relates back to like that finished product, right? There's a reason why things happen in a certain way and why we get the outcome we get because people are on board and they've they've signed up for this. They they they get it.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

And the guys and girls who sign up for that level of standardization already are in a uh a league of their own. That's true. Because they respect it as well. So the ones that are willing to follow it believe in it, and they respect it, and um everybody's happier. It's a win-win situation. So for entrepreneurs that are listening, that might be operating in what I would call chaos, where you don't have structure, you don't have standards, then that's the outcome that you're gonna get. It's in your team, in your clients, in yourself, your business, and it's work that's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

And I would say too, so no one likes change, right? It's just is what it is. And you know, when you start like for me, when we started talking about policy, it's just that word, right? It's like has like that tone to it. Very HR. Yeah. And I'm like, how are like they're gonna like not do this or not? And they're an awesome group of people. It's not that they're gonna push back, it's just it's gonna be, it's gonna look so off compared to like what we've been doing. So the way that for me, it just like was like start slow, like dress code, you know, like this will be our new policy for dress code. And it was just like slow function, yeah. Slow little things that made it more digestible for me as the back end to be able to deliver to them. And I feel like it was well received in those little, like little tidbits, you know, it wasn't here's our policy complete, but like this big thing. And I've told them like this is how it's gonna start. Um, it's always gonna be changing, evolving, until being new things, you know, once those things arise. So yeah, I just wanted to say like it has like a weird tone to it, especially if you haven't been doing it. And then a lot of these guys have been working with us for a while. So that was my concern.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Then it's like we're doing it this way now.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah, so now it's more, but they also understand it. I think they once you're able to articulate it as well, one of the why it it gets more one of the biggest pushbacks was like digital sign in.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Right. So you sign into your phone and it's like, oh, you're trying to keep track of us. No, it's like we ask for your hours on Wednesday, paydays Friday, then you're you're calling, texting, emailing. Automated. You're calling and texting and emailing like everybody, like 10 times. So that's like 50 messages. But then your hours you want to get paid.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

But again, that the whole transparency and talking to those your employees is like, here's why. We want to know how many hours we spent at the jobs, who was there for billing, for like time and material, for us to be able to like better quote jobs, better have an understanding of like what jobs, like the amount of time it takes. Like if we do another job like this, and then it was like, oh, okay, I get it. I understand. Like it wasn't so that explanation piece of like transparency, I think really helps too.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

If we're not making money, they don't have jobs. Like it's like that is the easiest way to see that.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

We can see why it's currently the one that it's um the buy-in. Exactly. And as a leader, sure, you could be um a leader that just says it my way or the highway, but you're not going to get the loyalty and the following and the commitment from your people when you don't get the buy-in. Exactly. And now we don't have to go to extremes and hold everybody's hand through it, but a leader gets that belief behind it and why they're doing it. And so, yeah, having that transparency.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

But I just also think for me, as like for me, if I think about myself, it's like just the understanding behind it makes it like gives the buy-ands easier. So let's just skip the whole wondering and go straight to the this is why we're asking you. I just like just to show you.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

And you say it in a much nicer way than I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yes, yes. You know. I wish there was ways that uh I know I've been thinking a lot about this whole anti-HR because it's daunting for people. It's boring work, it's not work that's very fun to do. It can feel um out of reach.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

You love it, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Writing policy. But yeah. But it's like the under, I don't know, the undertone of it is like heavy. It is. When it's not really, but it is, you know. I don't I don't know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I think the biggest thing is once it's created, you're only building off it. You're not going back to the drawing board to figure out how do you start do it once there. It's like, okay, let's draw from this and perfect it to make it easier for like not only for us, but for the guys that are are there working.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah. So you have a dress policy, obviously important in your business, construction, renovation, safety being one of that. Um, you have a leave policy. Yep. Leave.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Um, just how how people will go about it, you know, sick days, sick days, um, vacation, who, you know, to report it to and how um if there's an injury or an accident. An accident.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

And isn't it crazy that there's contractors out there with teams that don't have these? Like if there's an injury.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

In in my mind, that it that's just a business would always have something like that.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

And you don't think about it until it happens. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, what's the like what's the process here? What is it?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

I think as your company evolves and grows and you add team members to it, you you almost have to have this in place. Because like at one point when it's me and somebody else, it's like, well, if something happens to him, I'll take care of it. And you're not always there.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

You have to have like those key people that know those those things. It doesn't need to be every single person, depending how big your team is. Um, but those like key people in your business, they need to know like what the process is, who to call. And that's just like call so-and-so. Yeah, call me. Like then, you know, but it's simple, but just having the know-how or who to do it with.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

And from a communication standpoint, like how is everybody communicating with each other? Are you and Mark communicating directly? And are you communicating directly with the employees? Is it through text? Like, I think this is a big part of businesses that can feel very chaotic or muddy with uh WhatsApp, text, Facebook, uh, Slack, all the different levels of communication out there. So, how do you guys keep it tight?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Also work in progress. Always, but it's way better now than obviously it was.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

We try to centralize things for Slack, which is like very similar to WhatsApp, but you can add photos, pictures, we can add job listings, so everything ties to go into a job. Again, it's like because it's like a work in progress, does it happen exactly the way it needs to? No, but it's there's a lot of reminders that get sent out to try to streamline things. And it's like if you can be more efficient on the back end, it's just gonna allow for productivity up front, right? So it's getting the buy-in. And I think it's guys are slowly getting there. So it's like drilling it into them to be like, this is why we do it this way.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

And again, you're you're taking people that are very like hands-on on tools, on the it's it won't be the first thing they think about is to pick up their phone and you know, to to so in the Slack channels, we've started doing uh like the jobs that we're at, and then the guys, if they need like a list of things so Mark can get it ordered, things like that. If they had to go purchase something, the receipts go in there. So then me and the VA have access to that, so then she can input it in the correct. Everybody's away, exactly. So it's all like again, it's it's there's reminders and stuff, but I I see that as like the curve, the learning curve, and it's gotten much better.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Photos, videos, and then the nice thing is always stored there. So if you need to look back at a job and be like, what happened at this point? Well, it's our the information's there, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah, no, I'm a heavy Slack user and all the businesses and all the channels. And if somebody comes new on board with me and then they message me about something work-related in anything other than Slack, then I just ask them to go and put it in Slack. So it teaches them pretty quickly if they don't want to send me two messages to just go into Slack. Yeah, and I'll be happy. I was gonna say, are you holding? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

So I'm like Yeah, like I still take you know, text messages and like yes, you deal with things at face value. So it's like even for me to get the buy-in, it's been difficult. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

And it's a it's a question of habit, which it again, it's a change. It's okay, we're gonna start doing it this way. Things are more streamlined, and then it's the buy-in, the same thing, right? Like, this is why it makes it easier for everyone. It's like instead of doing four phone calls, you can just put it in here, you know. But and and some things, the nature of the work, you know, I think I'm is a phone call, a direct phone call or a direct text message.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

I'm guilty of like messaging business to like a text message to my wife when she's like, let's keep this personal, keep this business. And it's like still doesn't happen. There's too many moving parts of like not just the construction side, the investment side, our real estate portfolio.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Do you have Slack channels for those? Yes. Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 32:21

I was gonna say no, so shows what I know.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah. Because I mean, doppelgangers here, we do the same. And if anything, I'll text Jeff, or Jeff will text me and he'll be like, Did you see the Slack message? So it's not like we're texting the message, but we'll just ping to say, hey, there's something in there in Slack if you're not tracking that because our um assistant is on vacation this week.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

So yeah, I sent something to Jeff this morning. Normally I would be asking her and she's on it immediately. And I had to ping him in uh text to make sure he goes and looks at Slack because he probably wasn't expecting it. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It we'll get there. We'll get there. Work in purpose. Always.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Always we're way ahead of where we used to be. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Exactly. Yeah. I want to rewind a little bit. Um the business chat chat is so important, and I love it because I think that people will get so much value from that. But Mark had shared a lot about um that evolution to get to where he is today. And uh, like you said, he gave you all the credit. And um still do. I have questions. I have questions. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Yeah. A, let's let's do an easy question. He mentioned that you guys met at the gym. Yeah. How how does this happen? How do you how do you meet at a gym? Honestly. I want to hear the details. Meet cute, I think they call it, but how good?

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah. That's feels like a lifetime ago, first of all. Uh okay, first we were talking about this on our way home, or on our way here. Is that like how different times are now back when you know we were in our 20s, and like if you go out, you see people that's how everybody was either at the gym or at a bar. It was one of the two, yeah. Yeah. So went to the gym. I started going to the gym with Christine. I think probably out of boredom. Like, you know, it's let's do something. He was there.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

And here we are. Did he spot you? Did he come like I need the details?

SPEAKER_02 34:39

What how did he we're always there around the same time? So it was a couple that was planned. Maybe that was planned.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

So it was a couple times you'd seen each other at the gym. It was a small gym.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

So Joe would strut by, go to the water, found.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

I did no strutting. Okay. No, it was a small gym, so it was it wasn't like this huge gym that is like a basement gym. Basement gym? Yeah. It wasn't in a basement gym. Like not someone's basement gym.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

What I really want to know is does Mark have game, is what I want to do. I guess so. Here you are.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

If I could be as blunt as I would be during that time in my life, I wasn't looking for a future wife. I'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Is that a nice way to say it? I think so.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Well, I don't think I was not a wife, but a husband.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

We dated. Yes, we dated. For how long did you date before you got married?

SPEAKER_02 35:34

A couple years. Okay. We we moved in together probably quicker than well, like seven, eight years.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Okay. Right? That would make sense. Timeline.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I think that was 23 and 26, but that's okay. You have your construction business at that time. You were doing construction.

unknown 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Probably not as steady or like as like yeah, as active, but it had started for sure. And what were you doing? I was working for a video conferencing company. Oh, okay. Interesting. So I was working, so he had his private company who had a contract with the government. Okay. So I worked there.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Okay. Yeah. And you got married. How did Mark propose to you?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I was lame. He was lame, eh?

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Well, he it wasn't. Well, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

So let's go back. Okay. So I I remember it. So that's good. Well, I remember too. I remember, like, okay, I have to buy this woman a ring. This woman. I like to consider myself to be cost conscious. So I found a ring on Kijiji of all places. And the guy had a ring, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go meet him. And of course, I'm like, okay, I better show it to her before. So I showed her a picture. I'm like, is this acceptable? I mean, this is something you want. It's so romantic. Is it? Or is it pretty lame? So I'm like, okay, we'll meet him at the mall. And then when I met him, I'm like, okay, look, let's go to Maison D'All where you bought it. I'm like, I want to make sure that I'm not buying like a dollar star ring. Yeah. We went in and he wanted, I think it was like $1,100. So I walked up to the guy with the ring at the counter. I'm like, apparently this guy bought it from you. I'm like, what is it worth? And I think he said at the time it was like nine grand. And he's like, I'll buy it from you right now for like five. And I'm like, what's not for sale? So I walked out, I paid the guy. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

And then I remember the guy was like, I went home and I'm like, oh, so will you hear me? But I remember the guy being like, so congratulations. Like he's like, I don't know, this is kind of like wont woman.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

It was like a big stigma towards like he proposed to his girlfriend and she said no and put it in the software. It's out there for a year. And then he's like, Well, I'm not gonna keep this. But in retrospect, he probably should have gone back to the dealer and said, I'll sell this.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah. Well, if he's listening to this podcast, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. That's okay. That is cool. You guys get married. Yeah. Uh how long after that did you have kids?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Okay, so we married in 2011 and Emma, so two years. Two years. 2013. Yeah. 2013.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

So really a year. Okay. Conception.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I guess so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

A couple years. When when did you start to see cracks with Mark or start to notice some things going on with Mark?

SPEAKER_02 38:43

I think I always noticed.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

But you're like the bad boy.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

You're a fixer, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

You're a fixer.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

But there was like uh it wasn't like bad moments. It was like like you still had it together. Yeah. But you were still like, I don't know how to explain that. You saw the good in him? And I saw the resilience, I think, from the get-go, right? So I guess there was a part of me that was like, this isn't gonna last forever. Okay. I don't know why. I thought that you knew his story. Yeah, like he was, yeah, I think our first date, you pretty much laid it all out. So yeah, I knew the story. And obviously, as time goes on, you learn like more and more.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, it's probably um and then you meet more and more of like the people that were still around, my mom, my brother.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Cause I can see it, and it even today it's it's uh such a big part of your identity. So I could only imagine at that age when it was still so fresh for you. Um, and that was really probably why that would be something that would come up so early in like a first date. And so was there times that it got worse? Yeah, probably you would gradually talk a little bit about.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

So I feel like once we had kids, I so the business was rolling. I was like on maternity leave, but still working, like still planning on going back to work with the video conferencing company. Um he was knee deep in building the business. So he was working like 16-hour days, you know, we have Emma like at home. So I feel like I really just went into survival mode and just did because I was like, I don't know, it's the other choice. So um some people would leave.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Joe was not high maintenance or needy for that matter.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I think it was fine for well, fine. Like there was obviously cracks, you know, but there was still it was still okay. Like it was still it never got to like a point of like darkness. I don't know how else to explain it. Like so bad, like terrible, terrible. Um, it was just always like at the surface. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

But like I was really good at keeping it together, even though I was like polluting my body.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah. Well, and I knew, like, I knew I was like, you're saying this, but you're full of shit. Like, yeah, yeah, you know. But again, I was I think I just switched gears and was like, I need to raise these kids and and do this.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

It was one child at the time.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Well, then when the second one came.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Oh, it's still bad.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Not long after.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think I just kind of uh like shifted into that.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

So was there no point that you thought I can't take this anymore? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

There was often points where it was like, no, I can't do this, but then it was like, well, now's not the time, you know, like or I guess that's what I was telling myself. And then okay, let's just keep going. And then there'd be like good moments, and then like the kids are getting older, so it's like a little bit easier. And I think to be honest, if now that the kids are a little older and more independent, if it would have kept going, I would have probably left. Because now like it's like okay, now you're hot. Like, I don't, I'm not needed as much there. I'm I'm starting to like, I don't know, like not heal and take care of your yeah, like you know, I'm not in as much of a survival mode because like they're not newborns, they're not toddlers. So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

I mean, people endure things for all different reasons, and when you get locked into okay, I've got these two kids to worry about, and I'm just gonna weather the storm, and you see glimpses exactly hold that hope. And um I I don't have an ounce of that bone in my body, and that's why I'm so curious because I'm so uh well, there was probably some denial in there too.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Like, I'm not gonna just be like, Yeah, uh, but why do you think there was denial?

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Do you think did you feel like you had an option if you did leave?

SPEAKER_02 43:29

So maybe I didn't, like at certain points, you know, like okay, so after our second child was born, I was like, I can't go back to work. Not that I didn't want to work, but I was like, I can't go back to doing my nine to five and then coming home and like dealing with all of this. Um, also the business was like going, so you're still working really late hours. So I was like, like, let's yeah, let's make this work. So, you know, I Left my job and then slowly started doing things in the business, like very slowly, because the kids were still very young. So, like slowly doing I think bookkeeping was like the first thing I started doing. Um we have like an amazing accountant because at that point, like my mom was doing a lot of it because she was true, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

My dad was around, she was doing servicing that back into the business one to make his life easier. That's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

So yeah, she was doing it, and then um, and then there was like maybe a couple years that there was like she was doing it, and then I was kind of like the liaison in between with like the accountant, and then the accountant. I don't know, he was just like it may be easier since you you were there with him for you to do it. I I'll help you, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

There was a lot of puzzle pieces trying to put in when you're shipping things out, getting them back, and then still having to be organized and yeah, and I knew nothing about running a business, like that was the furthest thing from my mind ever.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I was like, I will go to work, work, and like I will do my job well and you know, go home, whatever. So I was learning that as well. So there's like a lot going on there, you know. The babies are a little learning this stuff, and and now I don't have a job. Like, you know, I'm working, but I don't have a job. So if I leave, what happens?

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Did you feel responsible for Mark too? Did you feel like he could handle you leaving? I don't think I ever thought of that. Okay. Because some people say to answer your question, no.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

So I guess I said no crossed my mind.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Crossed my mind numerous times.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

I don't think that was uh I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

To me, it would have just put me in like a darker place, right? And it's like I like I told you before, like meeting Joe probably is a reason why I'm here today.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Like it's did you know that you were having that much impact?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Uh I told you every day.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

I think I didn't believe him, to be honest. But you didn't tell me every day. No, but when I'm trying to think, I feel like it was a long time ago. Uh no, I didn't think so. Now do you believe it? More so.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Because now I tell you all the time.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yeah. Yeah. And how does it feel now? Now that you've weathered the storm and you've seen the growth that's happened, how does that feel for you?

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Uh it feels like a that's right kind of deal. Not not like, I know that's not very nice. No, own that. I love that. That's right. Yeah. Uh no, I think it's like, again, I think you in that survival mode, you know, I just kind of like you forget a lot of the stuff, right? Because you're just like, yeah, just keep going. Um yeah, I'm just I'm trying to think like it won't remind you now then. No, no, but I don't think I um I think it's like it feels good because I did work hard. Um I learned a lot. I still have a lot to learn. But yeah, it feels good, obviously, to to learn to to hear that like we still built this together, even though it was the furthest thing from my mind. Yeah and not like my priority for a long time. Like the kids were and like all that. Now it's shifted a little bit more because again, the kids are older.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Um I would almost imagine almost a a sense of relief that you have your husband back, or maybe you never had him in the first place. And I don't think he was ever like that, no.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Which is kind of weird.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

You know? You fell for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

I know. We were talking about He was always there. Just down, deep down, it was there. It was But you saw it.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah, I saw it. And for reasons that um you sometimes we don't even know or we can explain, but you stuck through it, you had hope, you saw that, and it was the thing that I think there was moments along the way where I saw like he would I don't know how to explain it, but like communicate in a certain way that he wanted to be a different person.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Just it wasn't the time or like couldn't pull the trigger. I like just there was like it was like slowly there. And I don't know if I realized it at the time or if it was just like in the back of my mind, like it was just it was there.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Um I think you have intuition, maybe I think that it's when we were talking about um how we all met and how crazy that story is, because me knowing you, it's not like I approached you, no, and we didn't even have a conversation. And so that to me is is kind of wild that we're saying when you think about it. Yeah, because I don't see you as a big initiator. I see you very chill vibes, go with the flow.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Like the back, the back end.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah. So for you to initiate business growth or this uh coaching opportunity or like whatever it was that you you thought that you were moving forward into, I just think that that's maybe it is intuition. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

But it was like it's it's like being on that a different path, right? Because like at that point, business is in like full force. And like as owners, you're you feel like you're drowning. Like, how do we get out of like the pinch that we're in?

SPEAKER_02 50:00

But of all the people at that conference, we didn't talk. It was you.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Yeah, I think that that's why I think it's um sun, moon, stars. I think that there's something bigger. Um maybe I wouldn't have believed that back then, but the fact that we did not communicate, we had a micro moment. Micro. It was a micro moment um of just uh acknowledgement while you walk by. Yeah. That's true. And for us to be sitting here today and have the relationship that we've had and what we've built, and it's it's strange, yeah. The growth that I've been able to have with you guys because I needed to find clients like you that I could be like, this is who I need to serve. Because I didn't come into coach, I didn't come into the real estate world to be a coach. I didn't I found social media, I was very against it. And I know you've heard the story too many times, but I was very reluctant to start putting myself online. I was approached by somebody to be a mentor, and I said no at first, and then finally said, okay, well, I I think I could help them. So dirt cheap and gave everything I had to support them. And within three weeks, they're you know, buying a triplex and they're doing all the things. And she reminds me very much of of you guys. Like she would you would tell her to do something, she would go and do it. Shout out Melanie. And that sparked that with me. Right. But then I I struggled for probably a year and a half of finding the right clients and navigating even how to find clients and um sales and marketing and all of that type of stuff. And so I've been through my own journey and a lot of it has been with you guys. The material is natural for me. That was the easy part. But it's that learning how to, you know, position yourself. You do. I know. Anyone, any OG's in mind now and they see the ride as well. Which I think is so cool. Yeah, yeah. Ever evolving.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

It will always evolve. But it just shows that like that's what a business does, is it evolves and grows, right? So it's like, okay, maybe we don't have it all figured out yet, but it'll get there, right? Which is like encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Yeah. But I think that you've got something you have to keep listening to that because yeah. Yeah. That'll be and you have a budding entrepreneur. I keep hearing the the jewelry.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

I wonder who she gets that from. Right?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

I wonder who she gets that from. I do want to shout out um your daughter, Emma. Uh what is it? Two girls and a cowboy? Two cowboys. Two and a loop. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Two girls and a loop.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Two girls and a loop.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

If I know how to do show notes or anything, we'll we'll make Emma will make sure that she's.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

She's gonna be angry if you don't know this.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I feel like I totally butcher that, but if you two girls and a loop.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Yeah, if you go on TikTok and search, they do have a page. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

So I have the bracelet that Emma made me for WeBuild with the WeBuild colors. Beautiful. And then Emma also made 25 of these bracelets here that was um for another one of our Build Pro members and um a client of mine, Angie Weeb, who lost her daughter within hours of birth. This was 15 years ago. And um, yeah, the bracelet um is for anybody that does a random act of kindness for Ellie. And so once a year there's a push for the Ellie movement. And uh yeah, Emma made 25 of these bracelets. Yep. So we're gonna be sending that out to Angie and to be a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm gonna send her a link and I'll do a little business consulting to help her learn her margins. And to you can teach her that's great. To charge me properly. So I make sure that uh she gets paid.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

She won't listen to me on that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

So I'll insist. I will insist for sure. Perfect. Awesome. No, you guys are doing an amazing job. Um like I said, staples, a lot of people look up to you and um you rise to that. So to hear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

We we do our best to get to that point, right? And it's uh I think it's ever learning for us too. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

If we stopped learning, then what would be the point? Like if there was nothing else left.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

What do you think is next for you? I kind of asked that question to Mark, but uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

I I hate when people ask me this because I'm so not like future driven. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it's fair.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

I don't, yeah. You just go with the flow. I know you like staying home. Yes. We're we're getting you to Costa Rica. How hard was that to pull the trigger? How hard was that?

SPEAKER_02 55:14

So my thing is just having the kids there, which I think is gonna be an amazing experience for them. Um also fun to just be there as a family. But like I've said to you before, like I have a hard time shutting off the like mom brain to like business brain, even when I'm at home. Like if they're if they need something, yeah, they're coming to me. Mark can do like hours of paperwork, which is great because that's what needs to be done um without being bugged. But I, you know, it's just it's just how like our house flow flows, you know. So um, so I think it'll just be interesting. I think if there's anything, it's more that like how how's it gonna go? Yeah. But I'm not uh I know worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

It's it's I think it's interesting too, and um almost a little bit of an experiment to see, okay, what's this like because for us with Build Pro, it's so important that our families are involved. Uh in my world at least, I'm I want vertical integration. I want my family integrated with my business instead of this work-life balance where I'm trying to balance business with family. I just make it a party. Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

And we're not doing this for ourselves. And I've said that the last time we spoke. It's like we're very low maintenance. Like the money's not doing it for us. It's like I think like Joe can resonate and say the same thing. Like, we're doing it for our kids to make sure that they're secure, they have the security they need moving forward. There's no handouts. It's like we want them to work hard and show up. But to give them a cushion when they start off in the world, it's like that's what I'm doing it for.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

And it's it's I obviously I agree. And I that's why I think it is such a great opportunity for them to be involved in this and see that you know you can achieve things and you know, do cool things and also like work. But then there's also another part of me, the like, I'm not a I'm a business owner, but I'm not the business owner mindset that I'm like, just separate the two sometimes, but it's just not the reality, right? Like, yeah, but it's not like terrible things. I'm just like it's I have those moments where I'm like, oh, you know, but it's the reality of owning your business and owning a thriving business, and it's like I I think out of everything, that's probably what I had the hardest time with.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

It's I think like one of the biggest challenges we face now is like separating the two. And maybe you don't, but I do. It's like I think about business when I wake up, I think about it before I go to bed, and it's like, where do you divide the business side of things and like a relationship with your wife? Yeah, it's like we're in it together, so it's like for me, it's constant. So like there's friction between that of like separating business and our actual relationship, our marriage.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

And I think just learning I get a lot of grief. Yeah, as you should. Um, but learning that I think is key, right? Like there's it's a good thing we're not both the same because that would just wouldn't work.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

I was thinking in my head, I'd be like, oh my God, it wouldn't work. Would we just we just like ping, wake up, talk business all day? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

It just wouldn't like for me, it just wouldn't work, right? And I think I think it's a good ball, like I don't like the word balance because there's no such thing. Yin and yang.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

It's the you know, you you bring um this yeah, I was trying to think of a word, not balance, but um But that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Like it's not yeah, I know that I think once You even each other out. Yeah, right. So I think once I was able to be like, this is just who he is. It's who he is, which makes him a good accepting it, uh like entrepreneur, which makes him a good business owner. Um that that's key. And then just knowing, but also for me to be like, okay, but I am not that, so let's figure this out so that it works, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

And how have you guys been able to manage that? I know you've put some practice into place.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

That's that's gonna be the title of this uh work in progress. Work in progress. Um well, just like communicating in Slack or keeping those two things separate. Um, I need time to wake up in the morning. I don't get up at 4:30, and I have accepted that about me. So I'm just like, I this is not who I am.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

So the schedule is like a little different now. So, like, yes, I get up at 4 30, usually by like 5, 5 30, I'm in the gym. The kids leave at 7. We generally go for a walk together in the morning. And that's our alone time, but then we usually talk about business.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

I was just gonna say, are you allowed to talk about business? But yes, yeah, because it like everything else is is gone. Like it's like the day has started and it's like not thrown at me the first thing I wake up. So I think those are the two main things. It's like you've been up for an hour and a half, like I haven't. I like I want to accomplish all those things, don't throw it at me right now. I need a minute, and at night too. Like, I'm not thinking about business at 10 o'clock at night. It's just not who I am. So if you have something to tell me, tell me the next morning after I had my coffee.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

So I've now started to write my questions in Slack saying, has this, do you, can you? And I think like my approach to it too is like, I would say, like, you need to do this. And it's like, can you generalize it into a question so it's not like an attack?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

And that yeah, just when things are happening so that's still overcoming. There's a lot of moving parts. So it's like I want to make sure everything gets addressed, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

I'm doing a lot of um having a lot of conversations actually right now about being direct and versus like confrontational, aggressive, and finding that balance. And so I can see that energy that can come from you that you've worked on and will probably work on for quite a bit. And just the way that you communicate can come across harsh. And so for Josie, that was a big learning is much softer and um needs probably a lighter touch. Yes. And it's I'm results driven.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

So it's like I need an answer, it needs to be done, and I'm get a better understanding, especially now that I'm more clear-minded on like the approach behind it. Yeah. And like maybe the softer touch behind it instead of being so.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

What I love about it though is that you adapt for each other. And you don't just write each other off because you're one way and he's another way, and vice versa. You're each trying to make the changes for the other person that you can, that you're not needing to compromise things that are your values, but you can say a please and thank you or uh Jeopardy style, ask it in the form of a question. It's like dock and points or something. Don't respond. And give time for Josie in the morning. Because I'm I'm the same way. I I wake up early, my brain is firing on all cylinders. I'm so creative in the morning. And then by the time Jeff gets up, I have all the things I need to talk to him about and all my ideas that I need him to implement. Do right now. So I get it, and um, it's got to be this give and take. And the best way is communicating and being able to just say what I need. Yeah. And how can we support each other on our needs?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

Very thankful that Joe, you know, quit her job to come work for a company that we've now created together. Yes. That's like huge. Uh I know it doesn't always work with like couples working together. And like some days work, some days don't. Still, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Like, well, like, and you go like a seven-day-a-week operation.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Yeah. It doesn't like things don't slow down Saturday or Sunday. You put two kids into hockey, there's again, and like you're the trainer for the hockey team, so it's like you're gone just as much. And it's like, how do we make it work? Yeah. So I think like you've seen the momentum that it's built, and like, yes, it it doesn't give you full freedom, but like more freedom now than it was before.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

So well, just and to go back to you know, implementing and having the right people in place, it's it's what has been a like it's what has like alleviated a lot, right? Because well, I can leave at like four o'clock to go to hockey because I know that my VA is gonna finish off the day and flag me if there's something or like the posts will be done or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Go to the gym at 11 during the game.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Go to the gym, you know. So definitely, definitely. It's huge. It's huge.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

It's huge to any business owner that is drowning right now, doing everything themselves. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

I think be honest with yourself is key. So I think for a long time I like tried to follow his rhythm. Which why? I don't know. I tried to follow his rhythm. And then when I couldn't, I was like not hard on myself, but I was like, why? And then it was like, no, it's just not who I am. So yeah, so it's like I but then also being like, I bring other things to the table, which is hard to like know of yourself. Like, you know, like it takes time to be like, what do I bring to the table? Yeah, if I'm not firing like a hundred miles an hour. So I think being honest with yourself and then working within that is gonna be better because you're not burning yourself out and then knowing where you need help and hiring the right people.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

It's not always the loudest person that is getting the most done. Right. And sometimes people can feel that way if if they're not the one that is moving the fastest, speaking the loudest, getting the glory, and you're quietly building in the background and you're anchoring Mark too, right? And and doing all the things that need to get done.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

It's critical, but it's um Joe's very selfless and she's put everybody else first before herself. Yeah. So it's like I I I don't I never put friction up when she's like, I'm going to do this. It's like, yes, you need that for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

I'm not gonna let him anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

You don't have a choice.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

But thank you for thinking you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Thank you. Um okay, I'm gonna do a little game. Um I'm gonna start with Mark. Mark, I want you to name let's go with three. Three of the best quality qualities of Josie.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

Um caring, empathetic, and driven, even though she'll never say that. But if she's willing to put up with my shit, then it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

No, seriously.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

I think that that's we're on different wavelengths in terms of like that drive, but she's very driven to succeed and be better for herself and everybody around her all the time. Like it's without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Okay. Josie? That was nice. You had a little time to think.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Uh resilience, definitely driven as well. Um I just so I don't know if this is like a quality or whatever. But like no, but like I don't know how to explain it. Like it still boggles my mind how he made like his brain manages like all the things that he manages. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

I don't know what that's superior intelligence. You can just say it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Like I think it's like your ADD brain. It's called ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

I don't know if that's an acceptable answer, but I think it's I uh put up a post, I think it was yesterday, and I loved it because it was so true. And it it said um instead of doing laundry, I'd build a business. My ADHD brain builds a business instead of laundry. Yeah. I never felt so seen. So exactly. You know, that's what that's what happens. But uh I want to thank both of you. A for taking the time that you have is precious. I know that. Um, for coming out for this marathon podcast. No, no, it's the only way I can do things. But uh, I'm just so grateful for um the honesty, the realness that was really important for me for these podcast episodes and choosing people that I knew could be real and relatable. And the two of you are. And I'm grateful to know you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

Thanks for having us. Likewise. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Thanks, guys. Thanks. Now I don't know what to do.