#5 - Shane Cyr | When Showing Up Became Too Heavy

He was the one everyone counted on. And it came at a cost.

Shane Cyr grew up learning that being dependable meant being valued. Raised by a single mom with an absent father, he stepped into responsibility early. Leader. Athlete. The guy who never dropped the ball. But when he lost a starting role at ten years old, something shifted. He didn’t slow down. He pushed harder.

That drive followed him into adulthood. Success in business. Respect from others. But underneath it, something felt off.

“I didn’t feel like I had a lot of purpose.”

In this episode, Shane opens up about pressure, people pleasing, and the quiet weight of shame he carried for years. Through therapy, self-awareness, and showing up more honestly, he’s beginning to redefine what it means to lead and live.

If you’ve ever felt like you had to hold it all together for everyone else, this conversation will hit home.

Join the conversation inside BILD What Matters.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Build What Matters. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you for being here. You have come a long way to tell your story. Have you ever told your story publicly before?

SPEAKER_02 0:15

I mean bits of it, I suppose, through social media.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

But maybe not the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm excited to dig into the story because I think I know bits of it. But and even we just chatted earlier. Um I don't know the the full story, the highlight real. But we are gonna dig into some things that I think that other people will just really get a lot of a value from. They'll see themselves in you and the story that you have to share. And I like these to be like it's a fly on the wall. And I want to just get a bit of an understanding about like what your environment looked like when you grew up. What was the environment that you were in that you would say has shaped you to who you are today? Growing up. Start with an easy question.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah, exactly. Um, well, I grew up most of my life with um a single mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Um my dad uh was sort of out of the out of the picture at about two years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Um they split up, and um I I I actually refer to him more as my father. And so he um was is is a successful business person at the time he was building his business and working through that and uh in the automotive industry. And it was tough times, I guess. Late 80s. I was born in 85. 85. How old I am now? 40.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I'm your elder.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, 41 this year. And so, you know, he was doing his thing, and and uh and so I wasn't necessarily a priority at the time, and he was wasn't around much, and you know, maybe there was some things that you know I don't really know as far as the dynamics of my parents' relationship and how that all played out, but from my standpoint growing up, he just wasn't there. Right. And and so that's you know, uh, I don't really I wasn't really ever given an explanation, I guess. Did your mother ever remarry or was it the two of you until you and I don't know the like how old I was, but um she did end up remarrying and um I have stepdad um or dad and uh and he raised me through you know younger years into my teenage early teenage years and uh very sports focused. Okay. And so I played uh football and soccer as a kid, and you know, I was the starting quarterback, I was the uh one of the best, I should say, um, on the team and relied upon all the time by by my teammates to be there.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Do you find that's a theme in your life?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

And does it give you validation? Is that something that now you're seeking, or is it just that you're naturally falling into that role?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

I would say it feels like it feels like a pressure more than anything for me to have to be there for everybody all the time and um and support, you know, people and be a people pleaser because I was leading the team or you know, or whatever. And if I wasn't there, then you know, we might not get the favorable outcome. And so it was always a a need to perform and do extra.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

You know, turn on the spotlight in the backyard and throw the football for hours on end to get the uh the motion correct and and read the playbook and understand.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Was that driven by you as a child, or did you find that that was driven by your stepfather? Well, I think about that sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

I think about the like, you know, we talk about like living your experiences or your dream through your kids. And so I wonder, like at times, I think I've always been a very self-motivated, driven individual. And so there it was probably a combination of both. And it did come with a certain amount of pressure, probably growing up. Well, I can remember very specifically the year I didn't get the role as starting quarterback.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

And that wasn't a good feeling. And what did that mean to you? It it just meant that I hadn't I didn't keep up, I didn't meet the expectation. And I don't think he ever would have said it, but you know, probably the feeling was there that I had let let people down. Okay, you know, that were expecting me to uh to rise to that occasion. It was an age thing too, because like how old were you? I was probably 10. Okay. Yeah. And it was right when, like, so we you in sport, you know, in football or hockey or anything, you go up in ages and it'll be an age split. So it was just it was as much that as well as that he this other fellow was the starting quarterback. Right. He had, you know, he was now the senior and I was the junior coming in. Yeah. And but I still think that I should have gotten the role just 32 years later. Yeah, I still think that I was I was probably the the better athlete at the time.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So tell me what happened after that. Being a parent, that I can't help but always bring in the psychology side of it. Okay, like, you know, I if he doesn't win, if he doesn't get the role, like I'm thinking about the lessons he can learn and the resilience he can gain from that. But what was your experience then not getting the role?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

I mean, for me, it just it caused it it created a monster. I just wanted to push harder. Okay. Yeah. So it just create it just it just made me dig deeper and make sure that it never happened again. I don't know if that's if that was a good thing at that age because it just created a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

At 10, I mean that's yeah, yeah, it's heavy.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah. I did get the role next year.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

You did get it. Yep. Came back.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is to that. I'm not sure. Like from a parenting standpoint, you know, I think about that with my daughter and and all the competitive dances and things that she's doing, and there always seems to be this line between giving compassion and grace on the days that they're not feeling like doing it, and then the times where you need to kind of go like pull up your socks, kid. Like, yeah, you gotta do this. And I I struggle with that actually still now because of my own experiences, and I think like what's when is the time to kind of like put the lever on a little bit and give her that push. And then it's the time to be like, ah, you know what, she needs a rest day today. Right. And uh, so I don't know what the answer is to that one, but I guess you go with your gut and how you feel in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Let's just like be real. There's like a wall that has gone up from you from the shame that I was just talking to before like we hit record. Really? And now it's like polished and it's very almost diplomatic. And I just want to hear, I'm wondering if you have always been the guy that shows up. You've been the guy that like does the things, right? But what makes you scared? What's the thing that like changed you? You're going through something big time. So where was that shift for you? Because I think it's gonna I think it's easy for you to fall back into that guy.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

And I think that you don't want to be anymore. I think that you want to be like real.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

It's probably just fear, it's just being scared. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's being scared of like how you're gonna be perceived and judged.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

When you think about Shane, how many years ago? Like when you can think about the Shane that was buttoned up, didn't process, was like everything is good. I'm good. You need me, I'll be there. When did that change for you? Probably in the last year and a half, which is very short amount of time comparatively to like your 41 years of life, and then like in the last year and a half. I remember when we met, I came out to speak at a synergy event, and that was in Kelowna. No Kelowna. That was over a year and a half ago. So it would have been like we'll we'll call it uh BC Shane.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Maybe I don't know who I was talking to, but I remember you being there and just like the there was no connection, there was no like draw to have a conversation, and maybe it was like very polite.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

And I'm like, cool, okay, that's fine. And then the second time I got flown out to Synergy to speak in Newfoundland.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Newfoundland, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

That wasn't too long ago, that was probably a year ago. Yeah, you and I had a really good conversation, and all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, there's like super substance to this guy.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Um, he's very real. It there was almost and I don't want this to be bad, but it's like it was almost like a broy vibe. The first one, yeah, and then the other one is like depth.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And that's who I've seen over the past year starting to share, starting to show up. And that guy is cool.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

That's good. Well, you know what? I've because I've analyzed that a fair bit. Because you're an analyzer. Yeah. And where, and where that to me is I would like I was intimidated.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

A year and a half ago, like when I met Mike and you, I think I was at the same conference, and like I had a very brief conversation with Mike, and I was terrified because this guy was like this public speaker. Yeah. He's this guy that's like doing these things at a level that I just like who am I? And so that was the same with you. And I was just extremely intimidated. And and same with like sitting in the conference and um asking questions. You know how many questions I have? Like a lot of questions. And I don't want to stand up and talk because I didn't want everybody in the room to be like, oh my God, like, what is this guy saying? Okay. Or is he saying the wrong thing? Or do I crack my voice because I'm afraid to speak on a microphone? And so I think that was a big thing. And so, like, Mike has actually now moved to Victoria. Amazing. And I like reach out to him and I was like, hey, dude, like we should connect. But I would never would have done that a year and a half ago. Him and I are doing the full Victoria Marathon in October together. And and it's funny how that changed. But yeah, I was just intimidated. I was nervous to be around people that were doing things that like I didn't think were possible or that you know I didn't think I was capable of.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

So when you put yourself out there, you are getting back, you're getting returns. And it doesn't always come with like rainbows, it's not always great, right? There's a lot of work to it. But what was the thing? So you said a year and a half. What shifted for you a year and a half?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

I didn't feel like I had um a lot of purpose in what I was doing in business.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

And I felt really I still feel a little bit misaligned on like what my direction is, but I do know that I enjoy helping people, and that's what excites me. Like that's what lights me up. Like when somebody reaches out to me and they're like, hey dude, you motivated me to do something, or I appreciate you helping me through something. That's what really lights me up. And so, you know, being a real estate agent, it's great. Like you're helping people with their biggest investment, and or it's an emotional time, but it doesn't quite fulfill me like having somebody reach out and be like, I went to the gym for two weeks straight the last two weeks because I saw your content and motivated me. And I think that there's something bigger than that that I can do. I just don't know what it is yet. But then I start thinking about if I'm being honest, like, am I just feeding my ego for a legacy? Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Even if you're doing good, yeah, you have this part of you that is saying, like, yeah, but is it really good? Like, are you a really good person?

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Where does that even come from? I mean, I'm not a psychologist. I've got lots of education in psychology, not a psychologist, but I don't feel like it's coming from being the quarterback on a football team and not getting it that one time. Do you know what I mean? Like and whether you share it on the podcast or not, but just thinking about that, where does that come from that you constantly tell yourself you can't do something or you shouldn't do something, or well, I think I mean I I do a lot of work with um with a psychologist, with a counselor, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

How long have you been working with your psychologist?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I've been working with her name's Alison Reese for about a year and a half, and she's absolutely amazing. Yeah. And um, I've learned so much. I'm so grateful for uh for the work that I've done with her. And we talk a lot about you know, guilt and shame.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

That's mine. Yeah, right? Yes, I can see you on that.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Triggered, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Trauma bonding here, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah, and so you know, guilt, like a certain amount of guilt is a good thing, right? That's what makes us, you know, human and not complete narcissism. And but there's a shame piece. Yeah. This this deep-seated thing where, you know, I feel shame for things all the time. Yeah. And I would say I'm still working on it. I don't, I don't know exactly why why it's like that. And, you know, I've had friends that know me really deeply and they will, you know, bug me for it. Like, why do you why are you letting that bother you so much? Like just move on from it. Probably from that five to ten-year-old Shane somewhere in there.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

You know, that uh those times of being on your own, and and uh, you know, I felt probably fairly fairly responsible for my mom's emotions growing up when my stepdad and her split up. Um, you know, I had to be the protector for her, but not just her, but also my sister. Because my sister came into the picture.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

How old is your sister?

SPEAKER_02 14:37

She's oh god, she's gonna kill me.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Don't tell, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

I always forget her age. I know her birthday is Canada Day. Oh, okay. That I know for sure. When my stepdad and my mom went through their separation, um, you know, I was often the one that was protecting my sister. But I don't know how that in translates into a shame.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I think that's super cool because you know, part of why I even want to do these conversations is not to just talk to the people that have it all figured out, genuinely. I want to talk to people like who are in the mess, but still showing up, and that's you. Like that's really where you're at right now. So, and I appreciate that because it's not easy. People can't see it, but we've got lights, we've got a camera. Um, you're like in an environment that you're not used to.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah, we're not best friends, so it's like we've got I'm like trying to like settle into this a little bit, but I even still feel a little bit shaky talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Did you feel it before we like turn the camera on? Because no, yeah. So it's there's and this is the interesting part. Like, I'm probably I'm gonna go in all these different directions. But because we were just talking and we were talking about social media, and you've done like a big almost 180 in how you're showing up now. You're showing up authentically, and it's being received well, and and you're helping people, and you're kind of you're going through the stuff, but you're also sharing your journey. Maybe you're used to being the guy that everything is like going really well, still self-deprecating.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I am like that. Is like one of my superpowers is that I'm able to like have that self-deprecating, like kind of joke around, like amongst the friend groups and stuff. I'm often the one that can like throw shade at myself, and then you know, that invites people to be vulnerable, yeah. And and and joke around as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And then you don't have to be the vulnerable one. Yeah. They are.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, you're on to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

But you're easy to talk to. And I think that this like people watch this and relate to it. Um, we've had this is our fifth episode now, so whenever it airs, this will be number five. And sweet. Um, we've just had incredible people share, and they're doing big things out there too. And so I think that's the biggest message is that we're all a little fucked up. Like we're all real crazy. We all have our stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

And that's and actually going back to your point of like meeting you and meeting Mike and these other guest speakers, it's like that's what I started to realize. And I think that was my big shift. I go up on stage and it's still and I'm still panicking, or it's still freak out, or whatever. And so I I think I just needed that like you know, snap out of it, like we're all these humans, we're all these people just learning. And so actually, I'm gonna be doing a fitness challenge starting in February.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

And so I'm gonna be running 10K every single day.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

For how many days?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

30 days straight.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

For 30 days. Yeah. In February?

SPEAKER_02 17:44

In February, February 7th. It's only 28 days. February 7th, they start. All right, and whatever the math maths do, they finish in March. All right. So I've got 30 pieces of paper on my wall in my hallway, all with a different run day or different run location, a different time to start. I'm gonna bring some guest runners out and do all this.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Do not invite me, but that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

And so I when I came up with this idea, it was right over Christmas and New Year's. When I wanted to start it right in January, but I realized I needed a I um there will be a fundraising component to it too. I'm gonna raise some money for uh for mental health initiatives.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

And the goal with some of the guest speakers is that we'll donate some of those funds to a charity of their choice. And I'm gonna match whatever donations we bring in. Incredible. So it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

And we will put all the details. Like, send me that. It wasn't a plug, it was but I do want to because, like, you know, that's anything that can support that type of stuff and um, you know, make impact, that's what this is about. And so please plug.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yes, awesome. I love it. I went down a rabbit hole, and this was between Christmas and New Year's. I was sick. I got sick for five days, so I was like, I couldn't do my running, I couldn't do all my things that I'm used to doing to like help with my mental health, and I got stuck in a box for four or five days. I went through an emotional roller coaster of like 10K every day isn't enough. Wow. Watching the like, well, I mean, you can like we go out on social media and you see these guys that are running a marathon. Right. I mean, Terry Fox ran a marathon almost every single day with one leg. Right. So, like, who am I to just do a 10K every single day? Yeah. Like, why does that matter? Right? Like, that's just like all these different things went through my head, and I don't know how I got out of that, but I just I probably a little bit of chat GBT in and a little bit of you know, a little bit of uh of AI counseling. But you know, I it it's a tough thing for me. 300 kilometers in a month is a lot. And I've done two um well, I'll call them half marathons because I ran 21k, but they weren't part of any kind of um of a competition. I ran one on Christmas Day by myself, 21 kilometers. I think I was the only psycho out there running by people's windows.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Can't imagine why you got sick.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And then I went in even to the money piece. Like my goal is to raise $10,000. So I'm calling it $10K for 10 for 10K. Right? Whatever. I know, right? No, sorry. I was calling it $10K for kindness because part of what I'm going to do every day is one random act of kindness too. I love that. And it doesn't need to be filmed, it doesn't need to be something that I put out on social media, whether it's buying somebody's lunch or holding the door open for somebody. Like I it's all on my list of my 30 days of paper, like one thing that I need to try and accomplish. So they might get one day I gotta pick up litter while I'm doing my 10K run. Like I'm just gonna do these.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Can I can I give you something?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Because so you know Angie Weeb.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Yes, Angie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

And lost her daughter.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Ellie. This was like 15 years ago. And so Angie and her husband started this movement called the Ellie Movement. And so every year they promote that random act of kindness.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And so it happened in November, and then I went and I did a uh toy drive for like a big networking group here in Ottawa. Okay, and we dropped it off at the Chio Hospital, Children's Hospital here, and it was amazing. I had Mark, who was actually in your seat last time here. Yeah, his daughter makes bracelets, and so I had her make, and I think it's 30. I think I asked for 25 and she made five extra. Okay. I think it's 30. And the bracelets represent Ellie for this random act of kindness. Can I give you those 30 bracelets that you can like give out with your random act of kindness? Yes. Absolutely. That's my contribution. That's amazing. And yeah. What What examples or demonstrations have told you that you like aren't enough and that you're not good enough?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I mean, there's always, you know, there's you fail throughout life. That's just what happens. I don't know that. I mean, it probably honestly comes down to the um the need for acceptance from a father that wasn't there.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

I mean, I that's like the best thing that I could come up with as far as even the shame piece too, as far as like needing his approval or needing recognition that like, you know, hey, I did this and I didn't need you to do this.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I find it really um we never know what the thing is, right? Yeah. And more and more people are separated, divorced, and uh you don't have that what they would call nuclear family as much anymore. And so I wonder how many kids go through that.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah, but yeah, I think that that's probably where that whole shame piece probably comes from if we're really digging in, is just like the the you know, and and actually it was probably two years ago I went um over to my father's house for dinner, and so it would have been 39 years old, and it was the first time in my life he ever told me he was proud of me.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Wow. Okay. Okay. Did it make it hurt more?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah. If you finally get the thing that you've been wanting, and then realizing all that time had gone by without actually getting that.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Well, it didn't change anything.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Right. Like from a fundamental level, it didn't like wasn't like the fairy wave the wand and I was cured, right? And so I felt I I thought I needed that.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

To me, from like the outside looking in, it to me it's like clear that it comes from within. Right. It's like we can't control other people, we can't control um what they say to us, what they how they feel when we do something, but all we can do is control like our thoughts and how we feel. And are you proud of yourself? Right. Are you proud of yourself?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I am. I am proud of myself. It's just this internal dialogue that just like constantly wants to like railroad your progress.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

So you've gone through a year and a half of counseling, you're continuing on, you're now with the self-awareness. The the thoughts aren't stopping per se, but you're at least aware of it. And when we know better, we can do better. Yes. What kind of tools do you use and for yourself, but also for people listening because you are not alone.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Well, I have some daily non-negotiables.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Okay. Can you share?

SPEAKER_02 24:53

I um I journal, which is huge. Yeah, huge. And I didn't realize it. And honestly, my counselor told me, and I'm gonna send her the link to this so then she can watch it. Love that. And uh, I'm sure she'll howl because she was like, You need to journal for like a year. And I was too rough and tough for that. Of course. Yeah, like journal? You mean like a diary, Allison? Is that what we're talking about? Like that's what I would say to her, right? Like, I'm not in diary. Like, you get me one of those pink fuzzy ones with the little lock on it.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Like, I just right and don't lie, yours is pink and fuzzy.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

You just gotta lean in.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah, and and but that's like huge. And like, and I've started off because again, like I need to have structure for everything, and everything needs to have like this beep, boop, beep, boop. So like I was like, I need I'm gonna write about a certain thing, and I'm gonna and now it's just turned into like it's a bit of a cluster, but I actually like that better because initially I had like these like set points of things that I was gonna write about. Right, right, because I like felt it needed to have some kind of structure so it felt more like work than like I don't know. And then, but now I just like the pen hits the paper and it's whatever's on my mind. It's amazing. And I actually started using, and I shared it on my story today on the iPhone. There's the thing in the health app that you can record how you're feeling every single day. Yes, and so I've been using that for the last three weeks as well, so you can go from like very pleasant to but I never get down to the real dark one, but the bottle there. And um, and I like that too, just to like kind of have a little bit of a benchmark and like look and go, okay. And then, but then I think it is important to go back and like why was I feeling that way that day? Because sometimes like you just feel crappy for no reason, too. And I do a little bit of meditation. Okay, you know, I'll say that I do it more than I probably do.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

I'm the same.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

I find it a little bit fluffy. Like, I bet I'll find it like if I need to like just chill out midday or something. Like I've had a like whip in morning and I just need to like for a few minutes and my blood pressure feels high or feel like I've just been running on this level all day. I'll sometimes just plug my AirPods in and then just sit at my desk or wherever and then just listen to something for 10 minutes. Yep. And then exercise, moving my body. Yeah. Like, and that's there's no secret there. There's like that's huge to the point though where I'm like obsessed with it though. And then when I don't get my exercise in, that's the problem now, is that then it's almost like this addictive thing. It's like not having that glass of wine before bed if that's your thing, or whatever it is that people have. And so, like, if I don't get my run-in or days where I'm traveling, I'm like, you know, and so that's feels counterproductive sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

I've been down that road as well, where like all I do is is think about it when it just consumes me. Um I have addictive personality, I was a smoker myself. I just like love pouring into things, and then I just can't get enough of it, and it totally consumes me. But it can get to be a negative. And what I'm learning is that we were talking about the nervous system and really being able to sit in the discomfort versus distracting it.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

So when you say sit in it though, like what are you like are you like when you feel this thing come on or a certain way? Are you you're literally just gonna sit there and think about it? Or how are you? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yep, literally just being like, you know what, you are uncomfortable right now, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Do you talk out loud?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

In my head.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I I will vocalize sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

I actually need to hear I had to think about that for a second. I said that really quickly. I don't know if it was true. Okay. All right. It's the guilt and the shame now. I think I lied.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah, yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I don't know if I talk out loud, but I certainly do have conversations inside my head, and I'm just like, you know what? Yeah, you are fine right now. Right. You are not going to, you know. For me, it would be um, I work. I'm a workhorse, like that's just who I've been all my life. If it's not sports, it's like business, and I love it. Like it fuels me, but then when I'm done, I go hoomph.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

And then I have no time for anything else. And what I have found, because you know, I'm a resolution girl. People, I resolutions are getting a bad rap right now. So I might get some hate for saying that, but I do love a good reset. I love a good turning of a chapter.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Do you?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

And if it's going to, I don't know, introduce better habits and I'm here for it. So I'm in the new you, new year mode. Yeah. And I'm feeling good. I'm actually feeling really good. I'm tracking my macros. I'm doing dry January. Sweet. And I'm finding that instead of going hoomph on the couch at the end of the night when it's well deserved, yeah. I don't know. I I have energy or I just go to bed. Right. I don't know. I'm not replacing it with anything right now, and that's feeling okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

So you like working a lot?

SPEAKER_01 30:07

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And do you find that it's hard to come off of that?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

And then I don't think I ever have.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Nah, yeah, fair. I I get that. Um, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I've done a thing called vertical integration. Okay. So my life and my work are blended. My husband set this all up.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Um, we were just in Costa Rica for a mastermind. I brought my family. Yeah. Um, my son James is always a part of it. Like when I was doing real estate and he was three years old, he'd come with me. So it's just like always been a part of our life. Now I, working in the military, would have to balance. Right. And so I think that I've created this like new version of my lifestyle where I don't feel like I am needing to balance. It's like it just is. Right. So when I work, like we're in my home.

unknown 31:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah. You know, it's um to me, it's the best way. And I don't feel like I have to shut this off and then do this. It's all together.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

I mean, I love it. I think that that's that's the goal. I mean, I don't believe in the like the balance thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I like I like the word juggle more. And it's like you've got your family, your your fitness or your health, yeah, and then your business.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

And you know, one of those unfortunately seems to like take a little bit of a back seat at times. So it's like you're focused on your fitness, your health, and your family, or your fitness and your family, and then business kind of suffers a little bit. Right. And then, or your fitness and and business is top-notch, but then family suffers a little bit, or at least that's been probably the wave for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

And that's where the integration has been so good. Like we have we have a home gym.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

And these are all decisions that we had to make in order to create the environment, right? Like I was telling you when we moved here, we could have lived in town, but Canada is like house on house on house, even if it's a single family home. Right. And my husband and I love working out at six in the morning, blasting music and dropping barbells. Um, so that was a choice that we made to come 15 minutes outside of town, get a property. We talked about the garage. Uh, our son works out with us now. Awesome. In my business community, there's a fitness commo component. So everybody is sharing their workouts and like it's all integrated. Right, right. My friends are entrepreneurs. Yeah, it's everything that I love family, fitness, health, business, is like welcome at any time of the the process. And yeah, so I worked really hard for that, and I think that I have been so um protective of it because the military is like the polar opposite. Right, right. You know, one of the they don't really say it anymore, but they used to be like, well, we didn't issue you a family, like your family's not issued, so therefore, yeah, it's like that's the culture, yeah, and you go away. And I guess family's not part of the equation, and you just gotta figure it out. Right. And they can tell you when to go. And so I think I just have become very like, nope, I'm keeping these are all my balls. Yeah, and I'm gonna keep them all around me. And I love it.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Being a dad, and Danica's now 11 years old, and we're like really just starting now to like develop a like a really strong bond.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Do you find you have more time now as a realtor versus when you are in construction?

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Well, it's it's less consistent though, like the schedule. So you have to be really intentional about your time. And it's something that you know she's not used to. And so, you know, been working on that over the last year of just like, hey, like, you know, like I'll pick her up from school, or she now she walks home from school, and it's like, hey, like, I want to spend some time with you tonight, but I also have some things that I need to do for work. And so I'll like set those boundaries and I'll be like, do you want you know, and I'll sometimes give her the option, sometimes she doesn't get the option, but it's like, hey, do you want to hang out for the next couple hours and we'll do some dinner and then dad will plug into some work tonight, or do you want me to just hammer through my work now and get it done, and then we'll have some some uh relaxed time at six o'clock or whatever? So when I have that flexibility, yeah, I'll give her that. Like if it's office work or things I need to do. Of course, sometimes you know, meetings and showings or things that are I mean, still in my control, but are scheduled and planned. I have to work around those. But I mean, if you got offers coming in, and that's and that's the other dynamic. Yeah, that's the other piece. Like, I mean, that doesn't even cover that. And that and that sometimes is like just like it comes at the worst times. And I mean, I have an assistant, which is great to help out, but it's still, you know, it's it's it's on me uh ultimately. And yeah, so I find that's that's probably the the biggest challenge, but just kind of like letting her know and you know, or talking it out with her and letting her be a part of the decision when I can of like when we're gonna get together and do stuff, but it's it's a lot different from from mom because her mom's a uh works uh you know um a more rigid schedule position, and so she's able to give her, you know, undivided attention uh, you know, throughout the evening. And so that that's been a bit that's a bit of a challenge at times.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Can we talk a little bit about your parenting course? Because I think that's cool. Yeah, I don't know a lot of people that go out of their way to do parenting courses, and uh just the fact that you do that is amazing. And what are some of the things that you're learning that any parent listening?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Wow, there's so much stuff. So I I've taken two online courses, and that's with uh Dr. Allison Reese. Okay. And uh one is called Power Struggle, and the other one I believe is sidestepping.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

And those are talk a lot about family systems, gets into a lot of like how our our upbringings and our nervous systems and everything that you know will steer the shit for your parenting. And then the newest one that I just did my first session last week is with a fellow by the name of Ian Abbott. And I'm not gonna remember the name of his actual um group that he's created, but it's a men's, kind of men-led, men-only um parenting one. It's in person, and then he has like a hybrid component with uh Zoom. Yeah, it's really rad. I love it. It was so cool to go in that. I got to go in person last week.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

What led you to even sign up for a parenting course? Because I feel like we all kind of evaluate how we are as parents, and we're all probably second guessing ourselves and our decisions at some point. Yeah, but I don't think a lot of people take it to that next level. And I think that that's um, I think it's super cool, especially being in the entrepreneur world where a lot of people will take programs and courses, but not.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Well, yeah, I mean, being in all different courses and masterminds kind of like opens your idea to always wanting to educate and learn new stuff. I would say there's probably also a little bit of component of maybe some like behavioral, you know, things where you know my daughter's struggling in certain areas, so how can I help?

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

And so that was like a big driver as well. Like, I need to educate myself on these things and and see how I can be more helpful and supportive for her. And then also my, you know, my therapist or counselor that I see on a regular basis runs this particular program. And so um that was, you know, the other thing is like I just I knew it was there. And I think sometimes you if you don't know some people don't even, I mean, I don't know. I didn't honestly until I met her, like a parenting course. Yeah, like whether we just all wing it and hope for the best, you know?

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Like see how we turned out.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Exactly. Right? And that's so that is uh but like some key things, like I mean, the whole nervous system, we were talking about that earlier before we hit record today, and and that intrigues me a lot, is just how you know you go through those different phases and and how it's it goes back to the cave man and woman days of you know, of our nervous systems protecting us from danger. Yeah, and otherwise we would have all got eaten by woolly mammoths and we never would be here right now. And so, you know, there's that component of protecting you, but just how it can also um you know dehabilitate you as well. And so that's like it's I find that really fascinating and interesting, and how that correlates to our children and how your the things that you learn in those young ages in your life are you know kind of like set the tone for your nervous system moving forward. Now it's correctable, right? So it's like public speaking, but sometimes it's reps, like there's nothing you can't just be like, hey nervous system, I'm gonna tell you every day that I'm comfortable public speaking. It is still gonna freak out when you go out there on a stage, right? Like, and so it just becomes reps and teaching it and understanding that it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

A building of the confidence, yeah. So, because I I do a lot of speaking.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

The first time, I don't even know if I should tell this story while I'm still serving. But I'm I'm I'm gonna tell it. No censorship here on Build Matters. Yeah, um, so the first time I had to do public speaking, it was in front of a big auditorium and it was in the military. And so, like, I'm you know, the bottom of your shoe. I'm just like a nobody in the system, the lowest rank that you're so scared.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Because everybody's yelling at you, and like that's allowed. And I remember that I was working this admin job that was about parental mata pata benefits, so it was maternity and parental benefits.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Nothing that I cared about at the time or had any um exposure to.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

I'm brand new. A civilian was in charge of this, but civilians can say no, and the military people can't. Right. So they wanted her to speak, and she said no. And so they were like, okay, well, you're gonna do it. And I was this was twenty 2004. Yeah, I was brand new. I think I was maybe in my 20s. Anyways, I purposely got lost, and so I was like, okay, well, this is the most um, you know, least punishment-bearing way that I can get out of this because I can't just refuse it. So I get lost. I show up 45 minutes late to this thing. Yeah, because it was during my session. Right so I didn't show up.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Yeah, I got you.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

But I did show up. And um, I walked in and immediately they like handed me this Britney Spears type headset. Perfect timing. And they're like, perfect timing. We put somebody else on, you're up next. Threw me out there. Um, and I had to give this like hour-long briefing to 400 people in this warfare center. So there's like this, it you know, it's like an auditorium. At the end, uh, the chief, like the big head guy of it's in the navy. And so he came up to me, and um, I remember him saying my rank was able seaman at the time. Okay. So he said, Abel Seaman, do you know how many times you said um during that presentation? And like you're standing at attention, and I'm like, no, chief. Yeah, just rip the band aid, like tell me I'm a piece of shit and let me go. I said, no, chief, and he said, not once.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Oh nice oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

That's how they played. They line flat.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

1430, no trauma there.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

But he said that and he was like, You spoke at a level higher than people well above your rank. They wrote this like big letter of appreciation. They sent it to my boss, and it was that moment that I was like that I got that confidence. And the funny thing is, in school, I actually did those like public speaking, you know, in class, like you gotta write it.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

And then I would win the class and then won the the actual school, and then went off to like this regional thing. Yeah, yeah. And it was all about garbage. Oh, yeah. That was my speech. It was garbage and and balanced. Those were my two things. So I knew that I had this capability, but I still had that fear. But it wasn't until that day that that chief told me how good I was. So any other time I would go and I would speak, I still felt fear, but my internal thought started saying, You'll be fine. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. And that's it. And uh to this day, no matter what, even if I have any type of you'll be fine. Like, even like before we press record, like I can feel, I want to do you justice. I want to, you know, you've come so far, and I want to share that story, and I want this to be a good experience for you. Yeah, so I have that pressure, but I also just have that confidence of like, you'll be fine. Yeah, it always works out.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

I feel that I I have that as well. But like, yeah, still sometimes though, you're just like, oh, I don't know. This isn't, you know, this isn't gonna work out, or I'm worried about and and I don't find that when people give me that assurance that that actually helps me.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

No, because it has to. Come from within. What I'm seeing a pattern for you is that you're somebody who recognizes a deficiency, let's call it. There's like some somewhere where you want to improve. Yeah. And then you go and you do it though. Right, right. I think that's really cool. And I think more people need to take that approach. Yes. Um, because the parenting classes, the seeing a psychologist, uh, toastmasters. Yeah. So yes. What have you learned from Toastmasters that somebody who is terrified of public speaking but wants to, yeah, how can it help them?

SPEAKER_02 44:35

I mean, the group that I have is just so supportive.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Is it in person or online?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

In person. Okay. And I and I there were in I'm I'm from Victoria, and there was a few different groups that you could join, and a couple of them stayed remote or Zoom after COVID. And this one group was in person, and I was like, well, that makes sense to me. I didn't understand the idea of being on Zoom if I'm trying to public speak. But I mean I guess it's still it still is an anxious thing. And I think you know, people would relate to that if you, you know, are in an office type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

It's totally different.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Because you don't get the energy from the crowd. It's um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

But I can still, I guess what I'm saying is I I don't want to take away from somebody that has anxiety of speaking on Zoom because it still can be anxious. Oh, yeah, it's a different thing, an anxious thing as well. But I I I want it in person anyway. And I actually thought I was just gonna go there and it was gonna be this kind of willy-nilly thing, like you know. I mean, you all see this like movies of like I and I've never been to one, like an AA meeting, and again, they're probably well structured and everything, too. But I just think you're gonna go in there and be like, so I got this problem, and you know, in a way you're gonna go. And I'm sure it's a very structured meeting thing, and the same with Toastmasters, and so there's actually set roles, and so you can be like you could sit, you know, volunteer to be the grammarian for the day, and your your job is to look for the ums and ahs and give some feedback to the group at the end of the meeting. So it's not a big long 10-minute speech, it's just a quick one-minute go-up, and you know, I noticed the group was great today on the ums and ahs. You know, you might there's usually two structured speeches in the meeting, and so then you'll maybe give them a little bit more feedback, like you were a little, you know, on the uhs or whatever. And so then, you know, there's different roles anyway. Like it's a connection thing too, like you're meeting with people and you're you know, you're getting to know people, so it's like just as much the networking piece as it is the actual public speaking.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

What kind of people are in the group?

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Well, people that are trying to do better, obviously. Yeah, people are trying to better themselves.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Are they like entrepreneurs? Are they coming from different industries? Like all different demographics.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Some are government workers, some are, you know, entrepreneurs, some are, you know, just they work for a company and they want to advance or construct I there's a couple guys in our group that are in construction companies that project management roles that you know want to take leadership positions. And you know, often you'll see like fire service or police, you know, people. Actually, one of our guys is a detective, so he's or so he's one of the ones that would be up there, you know, giving the podium uh debrief or whatever. And yeah, it's just like super supportive and it just pushes you. But then, like it's funny though, because then you get comfortable with them. And that's what happened to me when I got invited to go speak of this thing because I rolled out of Toastmasters and I had practiced, they actually allowed me time to practice that particular speech three times. Okay. So I went three Thursdays in a row and I practiced that same speech. It changed every time, but the premise was the same. And then I went to this, you know, mini conference mastermind thing to prep to deliver that same speech, and I was like, I was wrecked. The first time ever my mouth went dry, my palms were sweating. I actually did a video on my social media and I feel like this is an MF. I 100%. I actually did a video on my right now. Yeah, exactly. Spaghetti all over my sweater. Yeah, it was and and so that um yeah, that was uh it was interesting for me. When I get back on Wednesday, Thursday, I'm going to my usual Toastmasters and I'll be competing in the international speech competition internally with my group. If I'm selected, I'll move to the next stage to compete at the, I believe, the district. And so that would be in front of a bunch of strangers again. And so that's like I said to the uh couple kind of education leads at my Toastmasters or group, I said, this year my goal is to get as many opportunities outside of this group to speak. So if there's any opportunities, put me in that and sign me up because I need to get in front of people that I feel uncomfortable. And it's like the same with doing this podcast. I think you and I had sort of teetered this idea a couple months ago. And I was like, no, not a chance, not happening. And I was like, I gotta because I I this is something I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

I'm always thinking, okay, who's relatable and and what would be a a good story to be told? And I could see that you were really coming out of that shell that you had. Yeah. Um, but when we talked about it, yeah, I could see that like, yeah, like interest, but also wall and fear, and then left it. And then all of a sudden, I think I had like a three-minute voice note of you just being like, I'm a thing. I'm talented, and I loved it. And like again, you're an action guy, and that was probably like less than three weeks ago, yeah, and here you are doing the thing, and like when you speak, doors open. And when you speak with intention and impact, and people, you just never know who's gonna hear it and what takeaway somebody is gonna get from that, and then as you tell your story, you're just gonna get stronger and stronger at it, and more conviction. And yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Well, I made a reference to Terry Fox earlier, and I actually think about him a lot of times when I'm running because like talk about a you know influential character or you know, or person in our history. And so I think about him all the time when I'm running, because I'm like, man, like what that guy went through. And so, like, but then I wonder sometimes because I'll sometimes I frame it in a negative way of like stop being a little bitch, get on with it, kind of thing, right? Rather than like a compassionate internal voice, right? Like, I'll be like, Oh, look what he did. Why are you being a baby, you know, instead of just like a word of encouragement? And so that's something I've been kind of I've been working on is that internal dialogue. It's like he it's okay to push yourself, but like put it in a way that's you know, comforting or soft and actually doesn't like kind of beat you up.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah, there's um oh it totally because A, I used to do CrossFit quite heavily. Can't believe it's the first time I'm dropping that, but that was my thing. Yeah, um, and then of course, military. So Remembrance Day, uh, we do something like a hero wad, it's called. And um Remembrance Day, we always do pain train. And during a hero wad, like they're meant to be grueling, they're meant to be really tough. Right. Workout of the day is what Wad would stand for for anybody that doesn't know CrossFit. But um when you do it, when I do it specifically, I think about you know, the the heroes that we've lost, the pain that they've gone through, the circumstances, um, especially Membrance Day, thinking about like the veterans and what they had to endure. And so it fuels me to keep going. But I don't do it from a place of like, you're a piece of shit, like how are you tired right now? Those guys were digging trenches. Yeah, I do it from a almost like a place of respect. Like, yeah, you're tired, but these guys endured. Yeah, I like that, and I'm gonna do that for them today.

unknown 52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

And it's not about you right now, it's about them. And so it's like a really nice way to reframe it.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

I'm really happy that you share that with me.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

If somebody was listening today, what do you wish that they would know? What do you wish that they would hear? And when I say somebody, I mean shame two years ago. Like what did you need to hear two years ago to fast forward you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_02 52:37

That's a deep question.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

I feel like I could go so many different Where does like your gut tell you? Not the analytical side that thinks of like the right answer.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

What's like Yeah, it's not like the right answer, it's just kind of like I mean, I I always like when I've been asked that question before, and I always think like I just go back and tell myself, yeah, it's gonna be okay. Like, you know, that's the first, right? Like you need to hear it. Hey, like man, you're gonna be all right. Like it's fine, take a breath, right? Don't be so intense. Like it's gonna be, but then like, but then I fast forward and I'm like, I'm still intense.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

You know, say that 10 kilometers.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Yeah, like I'm still intense, and so I feel like the oh yeah, I always want to tell myself to just slow down and enjoy the like enjoy the moments. That's like the big thing for me because I just I don't, you know, like you say about like and I love your vertical integration thing, and I wish I could find a way that that would work in my world because I like I I just don't feel that I ever really, you know, I do these things because they're you know they're important to me, but do I ever really feel like I relax? Like I don't I don't know if I do. Like I'm always feeling like I'm on edge, and so I'd always like to go back to myself and be like, take a breath and just like chill out a bit. And I think I have in a lot of ways, and I and and I'm probably thinking more of like seasons as far as like say my construction business to hear. Yeah, and that's been almost three years. But the change there is is just having trust in other people. And so have instead of, you know, when I had my construction company, I micromanage everybody. Everybody. I thought I could do it faster and better than anybody, so why would I send somebody over to go do that gig? I could just and I had staff, but it was just if a deficiency came up, I would just, you know, and and so that was been the biggest lesson for me in like getting into real estate is like being able to, you know, um bring people on and just let them do their job. Like I would say it was half of like people like, why what made you get into real estate? And it's like, well, oh, I've always been like my answer is always, oh, I was always interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

But the real reason was I was burnt out and I was looking for something else to do.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Because I thought that like the change was gonna like help. And I didn't intend on quitting the construction. I thought I was just gonna get my license and it was gonna be this thing I was just gonna do as well as. And then within three months, I was like, this is my gig. And I basically shut down my company. My staff went to work for my friend, and I gave my two main guys the company trucks as like partying gifts. Like just, you know, like, well, I it all happened really quickly. And then I got in, and then it was like I just all of a sudden got exposed to some really great people really quickly, and that was the big one.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

And did it give you what you were looking for? Like you got exposed to the great people, but was that what you were looking for when you left construction?

SPEAKER_02 55:32

I don't think I don't think I had any clue. I don't think I had a freaking clue what I was getting into. I thought that all my friends were gonna just call me to help me sell their houses. Like, that's what I legit thought. Like, I know so many people that like everybody will just call me and it'll be it'll be easy. And like, luckily, that an old business partner of mine who was actually the real estate agent and I was the contractor, and we bought and sold and flipped homes together, connected me with my mentor Phil Hahn at EXP Realty. And that's where that like kind of just went from there. And and you know, now we've created this great friendship, and uh I but I had no idea. I just had no idea what I was getting into, and I thought that people were just gonna call me. And there's the saying that your friends will call you for free advice and then hire somebody else. Is that true? Yeah, oh yeah. It's like, oh, what do you think about this house? And then next thing you run into them at a barbecue in two weeks, they're like, Oh, I ended up buying it. I called the listing agent. You're like, bro, right? Yeah. I love the reels you see of like real estate agents. I'm just like, when well, I don't mind if my friend hires and hires somebody else, and then he opens up the trunk and the person's taped up in the car or whatever. And uh, or your friend hires another realtor and then he's running over the sign in the front yard or something. But anyway, I yeah, I had no idea. And so then I meet you know, this Phil fellow, and you know, he gives me a lot of guidance and you know, has really been a great friend, and you know, maybe even a little bit of a father figure. He's helped me in a lot of ways, you know, with other aspects. He introduced me to my counselor, yeah, you know, to Allison. Yeah, right. And so he's just been uh instrumental. Now I I will say though, I struggled a little bit with identity when I first started because we're not the same people, him and I. And he's got a lot of different strategies than I do. And a lot of them, you know, they've worked well and they served him, but they're just not they weren't true and authentic to me. And so I would say the first six months, like I was living in somebody else's, you know, in the business. It worked, it's certain it worked, like it got me ahead, and I got the wheels moving and I made deals, and you know, I sold 22 houses in my first year in business. But is it sustainable? But it wasn't me, it wasn't true to who I was, and so I had to mold it.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

What gave you what gave you the courage to shift to your identity?

SPEAKER_02 58:02

It just didn't feel right in my heart. Right. I just felt like I was playing a numbers game and it was just uh and it is I mean, it is a numbers game when you're dealing with lead generation and online leads. I mean, it's a numbers game in a sense of you know, if I get a hundred leads that I'm gonna convert two percent, I'm gonna get two deals out of it. So it's a number game that way, but to me, it's not transactional, it's relationships. And so I was treating it like a transaction. I was going in there like a robot. Yeah, I was I was trying to go for the the the kill. You know, I was trying to get that contract signed, and that's all I cared about. And it was actually my mentor again who it was a saying that sort of like went for me in the sales, and it was people don't care how much you know, they want to know how much you care.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Yeah, and and that was like for me, and then all of a sudden I started going into my listing appointments. I like because I built this fancy, you know, book. Let me show you what Shane can do for you. Right. Here's all the things that Shane can do. And like people don't like, like I want to, and so now I go in, there's no book. I bring a notebook just so I take notes and I'm a professional, but it's just all questions.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

You know, what's important to you? Where are you going? Like, what's the plan? Why are you selling? People just want to be heard, and yeah, and that's and and and you're still not gonna win them all because some people you just don't click with, and that's fine. Like, I'm okay if you know they have a better vibe from somebody else. And unfortunately, some you know, people just get allure of the of a of a price tag that an agent will tell them their house is worth, you know. And I'm honest with people, I say them like, hey, like just be mindful that I'm gonna be super honest with you, but I'm not always right. Yeah, and I don't have a crystal ball. And I said any other real estate agent that's coming in and tells you exactly what your place is selling for, I don't know. Not sure about that, right? Like, that's just my yeah, right? Like nobody can predict that to the T. And so like that's how I am. I'm just super honest and open with people. And if it doesn't work or they don't hire me, then I just I think of it as kind of like, okay, well, I did everything I could, and yeah, it's kind of there.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

If you're good at what you do, yeah, and you want to have that relationship should be built on trust. I've I've sold and bought lots of houses, and we always defer to our realtor on like, yeah, what do you think the price should be? Right. Why do you think that it should be this? And then what are the pros and cons of like if we do go higher or if we go lower? And so, you know, if you get just yes, men, then you're just gonna have lots of headaches. But yeah. I have one last question I want to ask you. I've been saving it to the end. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

I haven't cried yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

You haven't cried yet. It's still time. What is that one question that I haven't asked you that I should have asked you? You've come all this way. You have a story to tell. What have I not asked you, what have you skirted in this conversation and avoided talking to me about? And whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

All right, let's uh let's sign up for another little while here. Oh, wow. I mean What's that one thing? Well, we haven't talked much about, I mean, we've talked, well, we talked a little bit, but I guess about like you know, real estate, and then I've got this new Instagram thing that I'm doing, and you know, we've touched about authenticity and showing up and everything, but one thing I thought you were gonna ask me, and I prepped for a little bit about is like, what's your goal with that? What are you doing with that?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

What is your goal with that?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

And that's the question I didn't have the answer to, and so that was uh so thanks for not asking me that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

But that's should do like the Alex and uh Tony and just like go full coach mode.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Yeah, coach me up on this. So, you know, like I said to you earlier, we're talking about just you know, giving back and value, and that's like and what's lighting me up, and but I also I wonder if there's a little bit of a piece of it being a little bit of a mask for me right now, like and then all and what I mean by that is like it's another, it's a replacement like from like something else. And then I also wonder, though, or but I also do see the value in that it's like it is teaching and healing me. So each one of those videos that I put up and I talk about something that's uncomfortable or that I'm dealing with or you know that I've learned, it kind of reinforces it because then I feel like I have an obligation to that audience, right? It's kind of like announcing that you're doing a thing and then you kind of have to do the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

When you teach and lead, you do better.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

I mean, you just you want to show up better. Yeah. Because now you're an example.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you're sitting there talking about, you know, something about the nervous system or whatever and what you're practicing, and then it like reinforces for you to practice that all the time. And so I think that's that's a great, you know, good piece of of why I'm doing that. Um, but there's also probably a mask or a replacement piece. And um, you know, we've gone through a transition in my life over the last 11 months with a separation, and so that's um, you know, created some, you know, something to keep me, keep me going, I guess, at times or keep me focused on something. But I like I said, I I I I think or I know what I'm doing is helping other people, and I'm getting those messages all the time. And I've had this argument with my best friend, who you both know quite well, and he was mad at me for doing this for the first little while because he A didn't get the like and and I don't have a monetization goal with it right now, but there is big monetization goal. I mean, you know, with Instagram and with different social media platforms, you can make a very good living.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

My personal brand is my strongest asset, and I own a lot of real estate. Right. Like that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

And so it will open up doors and conversations and and you know, and and opportunity down the road, but you know, he felt that I should be focusing on my real estate business. And why are you taken away from this and why do you care so much about this? And if you put that much effort into, you know, your real estate business, then you know, you would be leaps and bounds ahead. But I think it's a it's a healing thing for me. You know, it's it's helping me express, you know, challenges and things that I'm that are going on in my life, and that's and that feels good. And and it's it turns out it's how helping other people. And so that's like the big win for me on that. And and and I think it pairs well with real estate. People just get to know who I am, and talking about saying no to certain people and you know, showing up authentically, it's just gonna show the people, it's gonna track the people that I want to work with.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Well, trust and credibility today. I mean, it when when the masses go online, and now with AI, I mean the noise, the amount of noise that is out there right now, uh, it's really hard to know, okay, what's legit? Who can I trust? Just because you show up doesn't mean that you're the right person and the trustworthy. And so it isn't until you can actually be authentic, yeah, genuine. That's where that trust gets built. And um, when you do it right, then people associate that with you, and all your businesses and any other endeavor that you want to do, real estate included, leverages it. And so, like, if you do it right, your personal brand is gonna be much stronger than your real estate one will ever be. What I've seen with you, and you're you're getting there, like you'll have some posts that'll be like, okay, that's legit. Like, that's that's coming like from the heart, that's real deep. And I think that's gonna be the difference. Differentiator for people because it's what it's what I've been doing and it's also therapeutic for me. It and it's funny because listening to the hormosy and robins thing, like I the pragmatic brain of me is like duty and obligation because that's very military and serve others.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

So I need to change my language, but I do feel an obligation because I post the highlight reels. I share all of the like this is amazing, right? And I think I have people who look up to me. And so I feel obligated to show that like I don't have it all together. And I have bad days and like really bad days. And it's why Build What Matters was created because I actually want to normalize struggle. Because that's that is life.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

I'm curious what your thoughts are on this because you know, we show like showing up authentically, and I know a lot of most of your content now is probably just like, hey, I'm Victoria Ann. I'm gonna tell you what's on my mind here in this moment. But do you not but those are probably not getting a ton of traction compared to like maybe like somebody like Adele Kinsman that's doing a video that's just like goofing around with her husband.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

And so I wonder though, like, and because I've got a little bit of pepper of both. I've got those classic meme videos, honestly, of me running down the beach with the heading telling you to freaking kick ass or whatever it is, or something that I'm struggling with, they do have meaning to me, but they get, you know, I've got a couple right now, eight, nine, ten thousand views. We've got one that's got fifty thousand views, and they do bring followers, and then those followers interact with my other content, and so I feel that if I don't put out some of that kind of fluffy stuff, then I'm not going to attract people that would be interested in my stuff anyway. And so you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Oh, I I totally do, and I think that there is strategy that can get more reach. Right. But what I've learned is that the conversion in the metrics that I'm measuring is not the virality of my posts, it's gonna be the conversations that come from it. Right. And sometimes actually, when you get posts that go viral, so I'll use my TikTok for example. That went fucking viral for the motel. Did it? Anytime I talk about the motel, I'm at like 500,000 views. It's nuts. It's nuts. That made me a million dollars posting that on TikTok. What it does is it sucks for my like coaching, for the business side of it, because what I I like amassed 20,000 followers like that on TikTok, but they're not my avatar, they're not the people that I actually want to talk to. Yes. So when you go viral, you're going to the generalities, and that attention is there. But are you actually nurturing and converting that attention and you want to lead them towards your business? It just depends on like what the intent is. Now, if you were turning yours into something to do with motivation, something to do maybe running, like you've been doing a lot of running posts on that, then maybe you could get a brand deal in with running shoes and that type of stuff. You could actually then there's ways to work it, but for me, I have a high-ticket offer. It's a 12-month program. You people need to be like heavily committed to come in, and there needs to be high trust. So the virality is not those are not going to be my people. Right. It's the ones who are watching. Um, I had somebody the other day, somebody had like recommended me in Bosses for Bosses, which is like an Ottawa Facebook page for like entrepreneurs. Yeah. And somebody was looking for a coach. Somebody I've never worked with recommended me in there. Wow. And somebody else just joined that community, like the week later reached out to me and was like, I have had no intention coming here into this community. I don't post in that community. I don't think I've ever done one post. And they said, I saw your name, I checked out your content. Oh my god, like everything that you like you are saying is aligned. Wow. Hopped on a call and like that, she signed up. Wow. And she's amazing. She is the right fit, she's highly motivated, she's a badass, like off to Dubai to do some like big stuff right now. So it was just like the content just sold for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

For me, I do want to build like a community, like of people that are, you know, that are um going through or feeling the same things that I'm you know going through. And so that's important to me. But I just feel like if you're not putting your best foot forward and you're not putting out stuff that you might could miss somebody along the way, you know. So it's like, let's just put out some of this stuff and put out some of this stuff, because then we're gonna grab these certain people. And I don't have a you know a sales funnel or goal that way, so I don't need to filter through the people.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

But the impact will be there. If you think of like a crowd, and if you're calling out to everybody, nobody's actually looking because they're not, they're like, oh, it's he's talking to somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

But if you were to actually be like Victoria Clooney, yeah, I'm looking.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Or Victoria, all the Victorias are looking. Right, of course, right? Right, right. Ladies, all the ladies will look. Yeah. So that's what your content is. And when you put it out there to everybody, then nobody actually is listening. So when you actually can think of somebody, and that was gonna be my my last, I promise, follow-up question, was like, who are you talking to? Who's that person? Is it Shane who needs to hear it today? Was it like your previous self, or is there somebody different when you pick up that camera and you don't see a face, but is there somebody on the other side for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

I think I just want people to be able to feel heard. So it's just people that feel they are going through a struggle and they want to be heard, and then they want some support and some help and and to be understand understood because I feel like you know, we've talked about you and I personally cut lots of times on, you know, or over text about the authentic piece and authenticity, and social media loves to, you know, give you things to compare to that aren't realistic. And for me, that's like been a huge problem for me and a hard probably part of my lack of growth is by you know thinking that these people were bigger and better than me just because they have more followers or they've done a longer run than I have or they've closed more deals than I have. And doesn't mean that I'm not capable of it. I just I'm just not there yet, and I've got to work, you know, work at it. And so um I just think that that's for me is like giving people hope. And so anybody that needs, you know, to hear that message, that's like that's who I want to speak to.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:18

On that note, I think that concludes the marathon. That's uh marathon podcast. Yes. Do you feel the energy shift? You're gonna watch this podcast, you're gonna see the beginning. Cringe. The like the button up. Oh, but you know what? That's relatable too. Like to me, that's um I was like, I'm so nervous. Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

And it's so and you're right, and I actually love that you called it out. I did, I did, because I was like, yeah, and I knew it, I could feel it, I could see it, I could see it, you know, and I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I like looking at posture? I'm gonna like answer everything to the T for you. Actually, even like when I just went to the washroom and came back, I felt a lot a little bit more loose.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:58

And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

And so, yeah, it's just I don't know what it is. It's just that like nervousness and more not and like being on jumping spot, right? So, so normal. And I felt myself sort of sink in, and once you called me on it, it didn't help initially, but then it did help.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

I know, I was like, oh, this is either. I was like, oh then we're gonna have to restart this whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

But you handled it like a champ.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

No, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

And you you turned it, and I honestly, like, to me, that's the impact.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

Just even that transition and going through that and then being open to that shift.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

I actually think that that is the big impact there. Cool. Yeah. Great. Thank you. That was fun. Yeah.