Westchester, Explained 01: Lead Remediation

As an extension of our weekly "This Week in Westchester - The Podcast" we welcome you to Westchester, Explained. This is the first in a special long-form series where we'll take you deeper into the headlines, decisions and policies shaping Westchester County and their impact on your family, your neighborhood and your future. Here we will slow it down, dig in and bring in the people doing the work, and we'll explain not just what the County is doing, but why it matters.

Because government should be clear. This is your County. 

And this is Westchester, Explained. 

Today we're focusing on something critical to the health and safety of our communities: lead poisoning prevention and remediation. 

Joining for our premiere Westchester, Explained conversation are two leaders from the Westchester County Department of Health, Leslie E. Liberatore MSN, FNP-BC, Health Services Coordinator for the Immunization Action and Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Programs, and Christopher Ericson, Deputy Commissioner of Environmental Health -- who will discuss the launch of Westchester County's lead registry program, helpful tips to keep your family safe and to explain what you need to know as a Westchester resident about lead and why it matters. 

Let's dive in.

HOSTED BY: 

Catherine Cioffi, Westchester County Communications Director

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:11 Why Lead Safety Matters
• 1:43 What Lead Exposure Does to Children
• 4:32 How Lead Gets Into Homes
• 8:09 Westchester's Lead Remeditation Efforts
• 12:40 Programs Helping Residents Fix the Problem
• 18:13 What Homeowners and Renters Should Know
• 23:07 Final Takeaways and Resources

Transcript

0:06

Hi, Westchester. I'm Westchester County government communications director Katherine Chaffee, and as an extension of This Week in Westchester, the podcast we welcome you to Westchester explained here. We'll take you deeper into the headlines inside the decisions shaping Westchester County and the policies that impact your family, your neighborhood, and your future. Here we will slow it down, dig in and bring in the people doing the work, and we'll explain not just what the county is doing, but why it matters. Because government should be clear this is your county and this is Westchester explained. Today we're focusing on something critical to the health and safety of our communities. Lead prevention and remediation. Westchester County has launched a lead registry program. Joining me today for this conversation are two leaders from the Westchester County Department of Health, Lesley Liberta, health services coordinator for the Immunization Action and Childhood lead Poisoning prevention programs, and Chris Erickson, deputy commissioner of environmental health. Let's begin. So we're here today to talk about lead. And you know, the first thought that comes to mind is with all the advancements we've had in medicine, how is it that we're still talking about lead? How is this still problem? You know, I think it's it's interesting that, in the first week of public health school week, we learn about different things that have happened over the course of time. And even, you know, there's discussion about the fall of the Roman Empire was through lead poisoning, you know, where there were, drinking out of lead, containers and using lead to sweeten their wine and things like that. So it's been public health issue for a very long time. You know, it's just been one of those things that continue. And, you know, even as I started my own public health career back in 1994, it was one of those things that I came in working in the childhood lead poisoning prevention program. And, you know, back then we had certain levels of what was considered, poisonous for a child, you know, to be exposed to. And those lead levels have continuously dropped over time to, you know, one point, a child who had a 20 micrograms per deciliter of, of lead in their blood was considered to be poison. Well, over time, we've done such a great job of educating and, remediating lead problems out there that now that lead levels even lower, our action levels even lower as far as when we get involved with these types of things. So it continues to be a challenge out there and it continues to cause harm to children. And it's something that, you know, we continually work at ways that we can be proactive in trying to resolve the problem before a child becomes poisoned. And that's kind of where we where have we worked our way to today, you know, and with with Leslie, you know, being more on the medical side of the house and, and working with, children who are lead poisoned. You know, we've seen drastic decreases in the number of children that actually have lead poisoning out there, but it's still a problem. How many kids would you say a year? So we probably see about 160 to 170 new children a year. And we are currently following almost 250 that are still poisoned over time. So the numbers ebb and flow. Some months it's a little less. We usually see more in the springtime when we start to open those windows, and we start to see the chipping and peeling paint from outside coming in. But there's also things in the environment that will never lead the environment. Right. So all the leaded gasoline that was used then is taken out now since the 90s, when the fumes from that settled into the ground that's there and it never goes away. Oh that's interesting. I didn't realize that. And it is still there are still allowed to use leaded paint on roadways and bridges. So every time they go to refurbish these bridges that are around, and there's over 90,000 of them in the United States, they start scraping and sanding and doing all that metal work on them. That just puts that into the air in the environment, again, exposing not only the workers but everybody else in the surrounding area. Wow. And what are the symptoms as a parent? What are some of the symptoms that you should be on the lookout for? So there really are no symptoms. til those levels are extremely high. I mean, levels that we don't even see anymore. So it becomes a problem in a home when paint starts to deteriorate. So if you, you can have, you know, a hundred layers of lead paint on a wall, but if it's intact, it's not a problem. As soon as the paint starts to chip or peel, it makes a dust that's almost invisible. Some children crawl through it. They put their hands in their mouth, and that's how their exposure comes. That is sweet. So children will often return to the the scene of the crime, if you will. If they're picking paint from a windowsill and eating it, they'll often go back to that because of the sweetness of it, and there aren't any signs. So that's why in my department, we encourage pediatricians to do a lead screening at every well visit, which is also a recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics at every well visit from six months to six years, because that's when children have the most hand-to-mouth behavior. But the big takeaway here is the effects of lead. Even at low levels, children lose IQ. Points are irreversible. So when they have a problem from lead, it does not. It does not change well. And so where do you say the vast majority of the children that you're seeing every year, are they being exposed in their homes? Yes. Okay. And the majority are from lead paint, the lead paint in the home, lead paint in the home that is coming out from under regular, you know, now new paint. So we do have some that are exposed to so stained glass windows or the old Tudors that have those beautiful metal windows. Those are all lit. So those create a dust as well. So although it's from lead it's not from paint paints. Yeah. Or using products from out of the country. So a lot of the children who immigrate to the United States, they, they either come with lead poisoning or they will buy parts here that they used to cook with. The parents will buy parts that they used to cook with. And to them that's not using something foreign. That's something that they used in their own country. So when we question them, they don't even think about that. It's something that they shouldn't be using. So we generally will find those things when we go and do an investigation in the home. It's scary because, you know, as a parent, you think, well, you know, I live in a home and I'm and I'm watching what they eat and I'm watching what they're around, but it's something so invisible that they're just exposed to. It's terrifying. So and a lot of what I hear from parents now is, well, I sign that lead. There's no lead in my home because I sign the lead. Disclosure when I bought my home. So they don't really realize that. That just means that the seller had no knowledge of lead when they sold the house. And probably 90% of the people who sign that don't have any knowledge that that was led there. Right? So probably 90% of those people are, because we live in a very old county, are buying old home. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think that's important to state is that, you know, the majority of building stock in New York state is, pre 1970. You know that that, that frame there were there was lead paint used at one time. You know myself I live in an old Victorian house. I know that there's there's lead paint in that house. I tested it myself. You know, I raised, you know, three children in that house. So it doesn't mean necessarily that we have to kind of just in a bait and, and move out of those types of structures. But it's a lot of it is just maintaining right. Making sure I know that the top layers of paint in my house are not led. I know that the condition of those surfaces is in good repair. You know, the windows are in good repair, there's no chipping in flaking areas, there's no water damage, those types of things. Many times, if we can keep a house that has, you know, older construction that has lead paint in it, in good repair, then there's a minimal risk, to children being in that environment. Unfortunately, sometimes women work in, in, in some of these, environments and in some of these rental units that aren't kept in as in good repair, those, those conditions, those layers of paint that may be 20 or 30 layers down, honestly become exposed. And that's where we start really having the problem, when those underlying areas of paint become exposed and create dust, and those in that environment that may not be kept as clean as we would like it to be kept. And now the health department has a program to deal with this. You're on top of it. Can you talk to me about the program? Sure. So the Childhood Lead Poisoning prevention program is is a program that has been in place, you know, since the, the 80s, quite honestly, the late 80s. And that's the one that's evolved over the years where where children are really mandated to be tested by their, their pediatrician and to go through these screenings and then when their child's blood, the level at is a certain level that kind of gets us involved, right? We see those blood results. Leslie sees those blood results as far as getting to her office and checks them on a daily basis, like when they're at that level that gets us out there, do an investigation, and we do an investigation. Whenever there is a child, wherever child goes for at least eight hours per week. So that could be their daycare. It could be Grandma Grandpa's house, and obviously is their primary residence also. And so that gets us involved to go out there and do an assessment to see if there are conditions that are conducive to lead poisoning. And if we do find conditions that are conducive to lead poisoning there, then we actually write, you know, a notice and demand letter to the building owner, to get these conditions a corrective. But there are some new programs that are actually coming out now also, which is kind of working more on the proactive side, which is a whole new kind of turn of events on here. It's like, you know, this is, public health react to seeing the blood. The level go up. Right? But we really want to get out there before the children become lead poison. So, Leslie, if you'd like to talk just a little bit about that program that's coming out, with, with the York State with the lead rental registry, I think that would be helpful. Sure. In 2023, a law was passed in New York state. It's the New York State rental registry law, public health law of 1377. It went into effect in November of 2025. And it's designed to be proactive. So we want to get properties before a child becomes lead poison. So it involves 19 counties in New York state with 25 municipalities. So for Westchester County, it involves two ZIP codes in Yonkers, which are 10701 and 10705, New Rochelle 10801 and Mount Vernon 150 500. Any property with two or more units in it that were built before 1980 are subject to a lead paint inspection every three years, and need to have a lead safety certificate. So it's designed after the Rochester, New York, rental registry, which has been in effect for a couple of decades now, and they have seen a steady decline in childhood lead poisoning over these past two decades, which is it's a great program. So we're just trying to get people registered now, and we've sent out letters through the county. We sent out over 10,000 letters to property owners to register. So Crystal, going to a little more detail about how we're going to implement this, right? Yeah. So again, this this program, this rental registry really applies to a pre 1980, a rental housing with two or more units. And in those communities of concern that Leslie was talking about. And so the again, the the purpose of this is to be proactive about this is for landlords to essentially keep on top of the condition in these apartments. Right? Is it is it in good repair, is it chipping, flaking or doesn't need to be repainted so that proactive part of it. And so the requirements that laws just to have that environmental assessment are conducted every three years. And that's really going to be the job of the landlord to do that. That's not something that that we go out and do all these assessments on there. But the landlord has to, hire a company to come out there and do these inspections and then to, to file it with us. One of the challenges, right now is that even though the laws in place, the regulations on how to implement the law have not quite been finalized yet by New York State. So we're still waiting for some of the details on that to come out so that we can actually really start putting putting some work together on this. But one of the things that that is also part of this program is that there is a leading and led grant, and that's funding that helps these landlords, of these building owners actually do the repairs in their buildings. Once has been problems identified. And, it's pretty cool because there is an allow ability of up to $40,000 per unit to be used in and resolving these issues that may be in that apartment building. So every unit. So if you had an apartment building that has, let's just say, you know, bought apartments in there, you know, 40 times for, you know, that's the amount of money you actually get to do work in there, which is, which is wonderful because this is going to do like actual repair work, like removing windows, putting new windows in. They really want to see an actual replacement of a product instead of just painting over it. And, and kind of just kind of, fixing it partially. So that program we've had in place for like over a year now, and we have actually already spent some of those funds and getting the landlords to, to take advantage of that money and to use it. And that's through the HRC housing. It's similar, I would say, community renewal program. The New York State on there. So it's both those programs are interesting, the lead rental registry and the HCR leaning and let their their separate program, but they work together to help resolve this issue with children being lead poison. So it's it's exciting efforts. It's happening here right now. It certainly is. And it's a great way to really target zip codes where you've seen a high number of children be impacted by this, something that I, two things I want a touch on is one is if you're not in the zip code, your children could potentially still be at risk. I think that's an important message also because of course. Yeah. And so, you know, we work throughout the entire county obviously with the child the lead poisoning and and making sure that the children who are lead poisoned, you know, we go out there and we inspect their facilities and make sure that there's nothing that can do some blood poisoning for them, this, these funds that are available here. It also, though, it's primarily focused on these zip codes that we've talked about. It does allow us to do a certain percentage also outside that zip code and as far as rehab. So it gives us the ability to kind of tap into something. And we've done that already. We've tapped into areas outside of the zip codes to help people, with funding for that to do, you know, permit work and correct problems Something important to note about this funding for lead remediation is that it doesn't matter how much money you make, correct? Correct. And it's not like some HUD grants where the tenant's income is the issue where the landlords this is not income based, and it can be used even if a two unit property is owner occupied in one unit it's own portant because it's really getting to the heart of the issue, which is helping children. Doesn't matter how much money It's all about helping these kids. I think that's terrific. Yeah. and something that I've seen, you know, can't believe everything you read on the internet. sort of insinuating that if you give your children certain foods. that they can have elevated levels of lead if true, is that the threat? I need. Certainly there are issues with mercury in fish. So too much of anything is not good for a child. Right? A nice, well-balanced diet is what we encourage. And certainly there are nutrients that we do encourage to help fight lead poisoning, which are, iron, calcium and vitamin C. So whenever we do education with parents, we tell them about these nutrients, and we give them examples of how they can get that and instruction that it's better to get them from food than from supplements. So it's just better to be, absorbed by the body through food as opposed to vitamins. And no, nothing should be eliminated from a child's diet, just like they shouldn't have too much of anything. Okay. And when we talk about remediation, you know, you were mentioning that you could have funds to replace windows and really rid the property of the lead threat, but for, for parents who have who have to deal with this problem or for landlords that have to deal with this issue, can it also be painting over? Is that also something that it could be? Sure. I mean, primarily, you know, if you can keep everything in good repair, right. That's going to reduce the exposure bubble. There are with this program in particular lead rental registry in the lenient lead program, if you're going to use, some of the funds associated with that, the state is is very particular with certain certain parts of an apartment or building need to have replacement. So we need to talk about friction surfaces, those types of things like a window going up and down. They don't want to see that just painted over, because eventually it's going to start wearing back down to the the cause of the problem. Anyways, they want to see an actual replacement in those areas, but just, you know, as a general safety measure, but somebody just living in their own house, that doesn't seem to have any problems. If we're keeping surfaces intact and we're keeping them in good repair, typically we're in for safe. Okay. And for, a tenant who is concerned about lead maybe sees chipping paint, sees damage. What can they do? So they can call us. Anybody can call us in in Westchester County. And we do what we call a preventative referral. Even this is aside from an elevated lead. It's aside from the rental registry. Anybody can call and request a lead inspection and we will come and do it. One thing to add to Chris, we also look at the behavior of a child, especially if they're have an elevated lead. So something that would be a non friction surface like a window sill. But it's a mouthful where the child could put their mouth on it or bite into it. That would be something that we look at that we like to replace. If there's activity in which the activity of a child there. But yes, anybody can call us for for an inspection and then would the landlord sort of get in trouble or what should the landlord and I'm sure they have a lot of concerns that they're going to be penalized. Do they. Are they penalized. What happens to the landlord. Will they get the letter, the notice and demand telling them what they have to do? Some places, if there's windows being replaced, the family may need to be relocated during the time of repair if they're going to be the leading and led grant that does provide for relocation. But a lot of landlords are afraid they're going to get in trouble and blame the tenants, saying that they started this so called the health department. What they don't realize is that if a child has an elevated lead, tenant has nothing to do with calling us. We see every lead level done in Westchester County. So and they have to know they're renting an apartment. Someone's paying them to live there. It should be a safe place, especially for children and families. Absolutely. What are some success stories that you've seen with this program? I'm I'm sure you have tents. We've seen a lot. The kids that are there, especially the ones that are relocated, we've done a lot of abatement that those kids ledge level, lead level goes down dramatically when they're removed from the hazard. The work is done. They come back. So now that they've been out of that environment for two months, we've cleared it with dust wipes for clearance to make sure there's no residual lead dust, and the child flood continues to go down. It's a great thing. And hopefully the sooner we get to these kids and get their lead levels down, the less damage that they will have. That's permanent. And I would say the other thing too, is like, you know, when we go out and do an assessment and we go into an apartment or home or something like that, and we're looking around and like, this place is actually in pretty good repair, like it's a little investigation, you know, the, detective work here that happens with our staff because, you know, sometimes they really have to dig deeper and to what's going on. Like, are they going someplace else for the day? And maybe sometimes they might be a little hesitant saying, you know, where they're going. There we go, grandparents house or something like that. But like, we're looking around here and there's nothing here that's causing this child that have all their blood, that level. So then we dig a little deeper as far as, hey, is there a bowl or something that they're using bowl from Mexico that has lead paint on it And we take that bowl and we test it and it's loaded with lead. Right. Or we in the past we've actually, found a blender right in the blender blade itself, you know, which came from another country, obviously. You know, we're starting to chip. And we had that blade tested and it was actually giving off old pieces of lead. And so the family was eating that. Yeah. So there's these things that we kind of stumble across sometimes. Yeah. Most of the time you go into a place and it's like, yeah, that's where the kids getting poisoned from, that's where it's happening. But when there's nothing in that environment, it really requires us to get our spidey senses going and figure out what's happening in there. Now. It's this I know for sure, like a lot of antique stores. And for those who travel, I mean, I travel a lot buying pottery. I'm sure my pottery has lead in it, but I also don't be a doctor am or our health commissioner has, I mean, paranoid, I don't or I don't cook at it. I don't put food in it and put everything in it except for, you know, the remote control and and that's it. But it's, you know, we see the I've seen the videos also go into stores, big box stores that sell home things. And a lot of those items also have lead in it. So it's very it could be anywhere, something that's very trendy. Now go to an antique store and buy an old window to hang in your house with that beautiful crackling paint. Yeah. And then you hang it over your dining room table, and those paint chips fall into your children's food. So the old Tiffany lamps, all the dividers there are all that. So that just lead just deteriorates and that you wouldn't see either. So but I do think of note is spices from have the country going to ethnic markets are buying spices that that come in from out of the country is so enticing to do because they're delicious. that they do add led to them for color and weight. And we've had a few sauces that we have tested where we have gone crazy looking for why a six year old is all the sudden, has a lead of 40 and never had an elevated lead. And on the third trip to the child's house, dad said, did mom mention he drinks this and it's chinois sauce. He was drinking it out of the bottle like soda. And so he tested it and it was high. And it's it's very hard because those sources are so commonly used. We know of three that we ask on every interview if they're used. I try to get the pediatricians to know that they should ask about these sauces as well. It's to moy sauce Boton, our sauce and Valentino sauce. And AG's and market won't take them off of the shelves because the per serving, amount of lead is not high enough. But from what I understand, nobody uses a teaspoon of my sauce. They put it on ice cream and rice and beans, a chicken and it drinks. And the same thing with hot sauce. I mean, people love hot sauce. So we often have kids that that's where we're finding our older kids that are using. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So okay, so we're not going to eat anything anymore that's going to exist Just drinking water and we'll just have water for the rest of our lives. I'm kidding, of course, but It is just eye opening when you start to really look around your environment to items that you think are endearing or pretty or tasty, and you realize that they could have this led in it. It's is very scary. What does success look like for you? Five years and what is success? What is successful? But, well, you know, I mean, it's like I was saying the beginning, you know, when I started this job, you know, the action level for a child being referred to the Department of Health was 20 micrograms per deciliter. Right now, it's five five, it's five micrograms per deciliter. Right. So in almost 30 years, the amount of reduction that's happened, has been pretty significant. Right. It's unusual to find a child with 20 micrograms per deciliter honestly. And we see that we're like, oh wow. That's like a high level for sure. There's sometimes over that. But for the most part it's like five seven you know ten there that that range there. So success is happening right? It's slowly happening you know. So for me anyways, I can't speak for Leslie, but for, for for me anyways, success would look like, you know, getting it to a point where you're unable to detect lead in a child, right? Is it realistic? I don't know about that. You know, because again, of of our just environment, of everything being around us. But I mean, that would be ideal, right? That it's undetectable in a child's plug of bubble. I, I just, I think that that's, that's a, that's a hard one to pull on there, there are I think there's, there's a push to, to bring the level down to three. So in 2021, the CDC recommended lowering the level of concern to 3.5. It was adopted that year. So and the way that they get to that level is that 97.5% of children need to test lower than that level in order to keep lowering it. So in 2019, we went to five, 2021. They lowered it to 3.5. New York City already accent 3.5. New York State is still acting on five. We address the 3.5 in Westchester County. We do talk to these parents. If they get two levels in that in that range, then we try to offer them a full on investigation. We do the whole interview. We do the education with them. In my world, every child would be less than one because there is no zero. It's less than one is the lowest it can be. Because even as I said, these low levels can cause a problem for children. And it's hard enough for these kids with everything going on that the least of their issues and their parents issues should be lead in the least, that their worry should be led, that they have really no idea that it's there. So it's it's interesting to see out in New York State, I'm sure will follow suit. Right. But Westchester is already doing it. We're already doing it. Great. All right, well, if anybody wants to get in touch with the health department to chat about. Lead to expressed concern about lead, what's the phone number? They should call. main number is for me, and that's (914) 995-8394. And then I can direct to wherever they need whether it's an an inspection leading and lead the funds for our help with the rental registry. So all those numbers come through me. And again that's 9958394. Okay. Well thank you so much for sharing this information with us. You've given us a lot to think about. We're all going to go home and look at our windows cells and see what pottery we have. But that in all seriousness, it's it's something that is very preventable that we need to do for children in this county, for children everywhere. And thank you so much for your work on this, I appreciate it. Thank you.