Scrap Solo Episode 5 - Rob Fisher: Ten Pounds of Pressure

👊 Guest: Rob Fisher
‼️ Topic: Ten Pounds of Pressure

SCRAP SOLO
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Let's do it. Let's do it. All right, welcome to the Scrap Solo episode number five with number five himself, Rob Fisher. I am always excited to have conversations, discussions with I don't know. Every time I call you, hey, it'll be five minutes. Give me five minutes. And then we look up and it's like 128 minutes later.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And so are we are we telling the listeners, the viewers that this is going to be a three-hour solo scrap?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

We'll go for 72 if we can. And that'll be. Ooh, I love it. 72? But that really does come down to the editing because sometimes I edit out a lot and sometimes I edit out very little. But I like to figure out what's or define from the get-go, define from the get-go, me and you, what topic are we gonna solo into today?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

What's the topic gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 1:11

10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. Right on, right on. I think I talk about it in almost every class I teach. And so it's a great one to discuss. So 10 pounds of pressure one 100% of the time. Yeah. All right. We define it so that when we start going off off track, I can say, hey, hey, let's get back to 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. That's the whole reason for defining it out the gate, so that we can stay focused. And I'm I'm looking forward to being focused on this topic with you. So talk to me about kind of what how did 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time come about?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, it's kind of funny. I do get I do get credit for this, and and uh and I always say that it wasn't, I didn't I didn't come up with this. It was a lesson that I had learned long time ago. And I actually uh got it from a good buddy, Andy Speyer. He worked in the neighboring department to mine. Andy's like a pit bull. That that guy could he could do anything. And he just he he never really pissed people. I mean, he frustrated people because he would stir them up in a way that uh he would get them to say, yeah. And then they would go, like, how did I just get sold on that? I have a lot of respect for Andy's still on the job today. He's a battalion chief in the state of Washington. He started in the fire service back in the late 70s. He worked before for FDNY. I mean, some of the cool things Andy taught me. He gave me my first, like, my first job of of teaching and allowed me to teach with him for small entry. I got to meet uh Tommy Brennan when he was alive through Andy, and so there's a lot of really cool things. But what Andy, what Andy did for me one day we I was frustrated, young officer uh trying to get change in the organization, and I was really frustrated. And how I remember it is he said, Rob, it's 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. That's all you gotta do. That's how I remember it. And when I talked to Andy, he's like, I don't remember ever saying anything like that. And but but that's that's how I how I remember it. And so what it did for me was it just slowed me down. And that I I mean, like in our world today, we instant gratification. So yeah, you you want something, it's like it better happen quickly. And even if we were to go back to the 90s, before we have everything that we have today with the internet and social, you know, social media and everything, I was an immature officer, young, uh, I didn't have a good upbringing, I didn't have really any any mentors really to kind of guide me. And so I was doing a lot of poor leadership stuff. And so to be able to make change in the organization on some of the things that we wanted to change, I had to slow down and I had to realize that you know, to do this, I had to build relationships, I had to slow everything down. And it just what ended up happening was if I could just keep the topic on the table, I didn't if you go too hard, then then that's when it lights the thing on fire, and then you know, people don't want to hear about it. But if I could just keep the topic on the table, eventually, eventually, you know, it's gonna be uh it's gonna be an opportunity to to act on it. And that's that's basically what it was.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So you said in there that you were frustrated, you were a young officer, you were frustrated, and obviously you wanted to make a change in your organization. So I think that's something that almost anybody can relate with if they are a go-getter, if they are a high performer, if they strive to make an impact on their organization, almost everybody has butted up against that uh that frustration. And so, well, first of all, I want to say the natural inclination is to start cracking skulls, beating heads, or telling people how wrong they are. That's the the natural inclination. And that doesn't sound like 10 pounds of pressure at all.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, I I mean the joke, the other joke is that I would always say that I was clubbing seals. No, I've heard so many times. Yeah, so if you you didn't uh if you didn't get on board with the direction that that I was trying to go, one of it was like our truck operations, the other one was, you know, we changed the smoothboard nozzles a long time ago and bulk beds and all these things, but um, that was significant change within our organization. So bringing up Andy and and all of the connections that I had, I I got to see a different world in the American Fire Service and comparing it to my own organization, I could see like, wow, if we could have a better truck culture, if we could have you know smoothbore nozzles, and it would it would resolve a lot of you know the issues that we were having, if we could have bulk beds for the type of you know department we were in, we could make stretches. And I think all of those things, when when you you know, you and I go to a lot of conferences and talking to a lot of firefighters, how many of them are trying to get smoothbore nozzles in their organization, trying to get bulk beds for you know a versatile stretch, trying to bolster their truck culture. So this is a problem that we are facing today. So, but kind of going back to the clubbing seals, if if you didn't get on board with where I was going and what I wanted to do, you know, I just I just took you out. And and the bad thing, when we talk about relationships, sometimes those seals are not dead and they live on to be your boss. Right. And uh, and that can, you know, there can be some resentment there. So I think when you when you look at 10 pounds of pressure, it's just uh it's a way to just to really look at like what change do I want to do? So you got to do your homework if you're if you're making a change. And we'll use we'll use uh one of the changes that I I could say that 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time helped with was we got a we got a TDA. And I'll I'll tell a little bit of a story here in a minute that kind of ties to why how that worked. But you know, if you're just trying to get a TDA because it's a cool thing, you know, everybody everybody's like, man, those are the coolest apparatus. Oh, baby.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, they're the shit.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah, yeah. But if you do your homework and you know the facts about everything, that's how you sell uh a concept, right? If I was just coming in because I just thought that the TDA was being really cool, it looks really cool, and I didn't take it, you know, take into account the fact that maneuverability is important, the ability that a TDA carries way more weight than a rear mount. Um, you can distribute more weight, the amount of ground ladders you can carry on, the amount of compartmentation, all of these things are all positives, a reason why maybe you should have a TDA. And then part of it is in again building the trust and relationship of this whole aspect is I also have to know the negatives. You know, what's what's what's the con? You know, if I just if I just present all the pros to something and I don't say, hey, but if we go this route, this is gonna be a con. This is gonna be something that's gonna maybe trip us up, then I'm not I'm not building that trust with the with the individuals because it's like I'm hiding, I'm not being transparent with all the information, I'm hiding it. But when I come forward with it and say, the benefits are all these things, the negative or the con are gonna be these things. And and if I can connect those two to say, do the benefits outweigh the cons? Do the pros outweigh the cons? Then that's a reason why we should have it.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So when you're talking about 10 pounds of pressure, you're not strictly talking about, let me try not to do the double negative, but you're not strictly talking about not clubbing seals and not going on the attack. You're also talking about prioritization so that you can articulate what it is you're gonna put the 10 pounds of pressure on.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, the club, the clubbing seals aspect was just immaturity on my part, being a young officer, not knowing how to, you know, I mean, really, when what we're talking about with 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time is is is influence and and persuasion.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

No, and you know and I want to make this point, and I'll and which is because you say you're maturity, and I get that, and I understand you're owning that, and I'm not trying to downplay the ownership you're taking, but it's also you go and you attend a conference. We the the typical way it plays out, you go and attend a conference, you get your you know, your eyes opened up to something you did not realize in your own silo back home at your department, and you're like, holy crap! And then you find out about things like you know, firefighter rescue survey, firefighter Mayday survey, uh ULFSRI stuff, you know, all this stuff that's the nine L's of leadership, nine nails of leadership. Throw it in there and you find out this stuff. But but I'm saying is you come back, it's not just your maturity sometimes. Sometimes it's the fact that it's the scales falling off your eyes and being shown the truth, and now you're a disciple. You know, you're a fervent, usually a fervent disciple now. Uh so needs the maturity so that you can do 10 pounds, but it yeah, so I don't know if that makes sense what I'm saying. But it is that passion that comes with being right.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, you're you're so right, because that does happen all the time. You go to you go to training, uh, somebody comes back and they want to do some new thing, some new technique, right? And you're gonna get beat down by everybody because one, it's change and firefighters don't like change. And so one, it's it's the change aspect of it, and your passion is bleeding through, which is great, you know, we want to see that. But the thing about the the clubbing seals, like I said, it you know, that's it's basically it's a lesson in not only prioritizing, but kind of like having situational awareness. I mean, if we were to use emotional intelligence, is that every organization is at a different spot, right? And so you could be in some training and see some really cool stuff, and you come back, and and everybody that's in that training with you, but we'll just use the nine L's, you know, like all this stuff, and we're all like-minded, we're all full of passion, enthusiasm. That's why we're at the training. Now we go back to our respective departments. Each department's gonna take that and receive that and change whatever that may be differently. Oh, yeah. And so, and so, as a more mature person, rather than clubbing seals, you need to read the room. You need to know, you know, the situation, your situational awareness is like, how is it being received? And it goes, again, here's the 10 pounds of pressure. Am I pushing it too hard? Right. Do I need to take it, take it back a little bit, you know? And I mean, like again, going back to the relationship aspect of things, my relationship with my wife, I can probably, you know, give 50, 60 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. And be through our relationship, I can get corrected pretty easily, but I'm gonna be given a lot of grace to like once I get corrected, you know, not so bad. But clubbing seals, that's like 100 pounds of pressure 100% of the time, and you can create resentment and you can you can lose traction. In fact, they may not even allow for you could have the best idea and it would be the best thing for the organization, but because you push too hard from the beginning, it ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

No, losing that influence overall, and one of the things I'd like to say is like, let's as an example, let's talk about like search culture. Like, let's take the uh the quintessential, I think, truth, which is the or the way it should be. That's what I should try to say. The way it should what I would club seals about is the building is not empty until we say it's empty. Like that mindset. Because there's two mindsets you have when you're approaching a structure fire. A residential structure fire is you can come at it with the mindset of it's not empty until we say it's empty, and we're gonna look to search every searchable space. That's one mindset, and on the other side, which is where a lot of people come from, it's the mindset of we're gonna look for any excuse we can to not search this building, right? Oh, so a neighbor two doors down said it's empty. Okay, we're good, right? And when you're talking about something like that, you know, for me, I'm like, that's wrong. This is right. And so that's where I have trouble not breaking out the the club and wanting to go after the seals. And so how do you and and this is the thing I guess you're trying to say. So as I walk through this, the net the net negative, the the lack of movement of the needle if you don't recognize the damage you're doing to that cause.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

So, like the search culture, and and we can use the you know, the the idea or just the the issue with we were told by somebody on arrival everybody's out of the house. Right. And and I and I have lived through a culture, an organization that had that. But how do we get to the point in our organization that we go, that's okay, that's that's information that I appreciate receiving, but we live by the house ain't clear until we we search the house and we clear it ourselves. How do you get to that point? And again, going back to every organization's culture, every organization's leadership is at a different position. And they're open to change uh you know, differently. And and like it might be easy for one person to come back and go, hey, the firefighter rescue survey, look at the data on this. And like, and then all of a sudden the leader goes, Oh, wow, we need to change because the data shows that even though we're told some that everybody's out of the house, this percentage, they're actually somebody in the house. And so good leadership says, No, we're gonna make that change right away. But when the leadership has a hard time seeing it, now it's gonna be about how hard am I gonna push that? You know, and that's where the 10 pounds is. It might be I got to come in at five pounds of pressure uh to get this moving. Like again, going back to what I said earlier, I will just want the topic to be on the table. Because as soon as I push too much, that's when it catches fire and it's off the table. And now we can't make any progress. Or we got to rebuild the conversation, we got to rebuild the relationship, we got to rebuild all these things. And and that takes time and that takes a lot of effort. And, you know, building relationships takes a lot of effort too. But if I can just slow down a little bit and just be happy with it, it's on the table and it's something that we talk about. That's the 100% of the time. That means that it's always there. The 10 pounds of pressure is like me putting my hand on your shoulder and I'm walking with you through it. If I pushed you, then you're gonna be more resistant to that change. You're like, stop pushing me, type of thing. And so, so that's what I want to do, is I just want to be there. I want the topic on the table constantly so that it's not off the table. I mean, it's negotiation tactics. If I come in too hard, you know, then how do I get the how do I get the topic back on the table? I always want it to be on the table. If I'm gonna, if I'm making some movement, then sometimes, you know, again, using your situational awareness, now I can see what movement I'm making, and then I can apply a little bit more pressure. And once I start making ground, it's kind of like a snowball effect. When I'm making some serious ground on it, then that's when you can be all in on it and and and push it.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

It's not it's not just prioritization, although that's a first, that's a step you have to have is identify what you're gonna be putting the pressure on. But it's not just that, it's also staying mission focused because the mission isn't the pressure, the mission is keeping it on the table until lots more pressure can be brought to bear because the relationships can handle.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, absolutely. So let's so I'm gonna go back to what I said earlier about the story with the tiller. And uh a lot of people know know this story, but this this really kind of encapsulates how 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time works. Um, early on with our truck culture, we knew that what truck we were currently in, we are gonna that in the time frame of this, all this change that was occurring, and in the time frame that I was probably gonna be an officer on the ladder truck, we're gonna be into a new ladder truck. So the idea was well, the probably the best thing for our culture, how we do truck operations, the best thing would be to get a TDA, not just for the cool factor, but because of maneuverability and weight distribution. And we were quint, so we were thinking, well, if we're gonna be a quint truck, um, it's better to um, I mean, in my like my quint class, I talk about this all the time. The best quint is a TDA because it can carry the weight of the water and the pump and all the stuff, and it can carry all the ground ladders. So we were thinking, yeah, we that's gonna be our next truck is a TDA. How do we make that happen? Now we were a small department. Most people believe, and this is a time period, most people believe like TDAs are only for big cities where they've got tiny streets. And I was arguing against that, saying, no, it's not, it's not about just maneuverability, it's about weight distribution, it's about carrying ground ladders. We should be carrying more ground ladders than we have on our ladder truck right now. And as this, uh, I won't say this argument, as this conversation is occurring, I'm teaching with a uh uh cadre in California, and I get the opportunity to drive a tiller. And just to make the story short, so we don't have to get into a length of it, it's like I crash the tiller. Oh, I crash another department's tiller. Uh, it ended up causing like $15,000 worth of damage. Nice. Um, you talk about embarrassment, sure. So now I can only imagine yeah, and and it's you know, it spreads like wildfire. And again, going back to when you're clubbing seals and we were being really hard on topics, and now the topic that I'm pushing, I go and embarrass myself, I crash a tiller, and guess what was said? There is no way in hell you're getting a TDA in this department. There's no way, Rob. There is no way, and that's when I really embraced that 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. And I'm like, okay, so just because I crashed one doesn't mean that that this is all lost because the facts are still the facts, and that is it's weight distribution, it's the best thing for for a quint if we were gonna be a quint. It's gonna carry the ground ladders we need, it our our compartmentation stuff, all of those things. And so now I had to slow the push. I literally had to take it, imagine, I did it off the table and not talk about it for a while. But then I had to get the topic back on the table. And you know, you got to eat a little bit of crow because people are gonna make fun of you. Sure. And it's all right, you know, but but the mission, the mission is more important. And I I can, you know, it's my fault. I'll live the embarrassment, but you get it on the table, and then it stayed on the table, one pound of pressure 100% of the time, just to keep it on the table. And then we continued conversation, continued conversation. I don't bring it up all the time. I just come back to it every once in a while, and I and I highlight the the positives of why this would be a good you know future for us. And I don't hide the negative. I'm like, yeah, and we're gonna need quality training because then some idiot's gonna crash it into something, right? And so we then fast forward, we work through this whole thing and we get a TDA. And in addition to just getting a TDA with 10 pounds of pressure, we talked about not making it into Quinn. Now it's a it's a ladder truck by itself, and we didn't have an engine in our quarters, and that wasn't that was another level of change. But again, that's part of that that 10 pounds of pressure because as the ops chief and the fire chief and the commissioners and the elected officials, all of those people are listening to the presentation on why we should be doing this. They all know that I had crashed one. They all know the you know what's the con. And we were able to move the mission and get the, you know, basically get the the ball across, you know, the line.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

What was that time frame to go from no interest in a TDA whatsoever to actually having a tiller at what was the entire amount of when you're saying 100% of the time, what was that time?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

I can't remember the year, thank God. It's kind of like it's I black out when I start remembering when I crash. The tiller, but that was probably sometime in 2006, would be my guess, maybe five. So as it became the topic, it came off the table right away. And uh we got the ladder truck, it was it was uh delivered in 2016.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

So you're talking about 14 years of pressure. 14 years of pressure. But that is a that is a huge swing, also. We're talking a multi-million dollar piece of apparatus. I mean, by today's price, today's today's standard, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, but but yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, but but again, going back to the the emotional intelligence side of things and being able to being able to to understand your your surroundings. I mean, like our organization at that time was five stations, you know, we were in a busy department, we're not job town. That's why I took advantage of the fact that I knew we were going to need a new ladder truck in the future. So it's like, what's the next one gonna be? And how do we how do we get there? And so then that's putting together, putting in the, you know, putting in the the time of of research and study and and you know, building a case of why it would be the best one. And then to, you know, then the crash, it the case was completely destroyed, and I had to rebuild the case again. Had to go back from ground zero, building trust, building, you know, building the relationships, and um and get it back on the table that we can talk about it again.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

That's a that's a beautiful blueprint for how to implement change for someone who is a go-getter in their organization, and to stay a prioritize what you want to change. Don't don't try to do everything at once. B, once you have what you want, the mission isn't, the mission isn't to change, the mission is to keep it on the table. Was that is that a fair statement to make? I would say that's a fair statement.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Like, okay, the the you identify the need, and and so I mean, obviously the mission is constantly changing. Um, and so like you identify the need, that's the mission. It's like our mission, ladies and gentlemen, is to get a TDA. Then once you can identify your obstacles and once you can identify all those challenges, and again, it goes back to every every organization is different, everybody, everybody's gonna be at some different spot. And if you have the right leadership in the right position, you know, like if you and I went on and became fire chief and ops chief of some organization, and somebody's like, we think it td, yes. I mean, that's that's I mean, like that's leadership that's already bought into it because they know. So, but then once you you can recognize what your challenges are and you know all of that stuff, then then it's it's kind of like all the battles that are into the war. I mean, the war is the mission in war is to is to win and is to conquer and is to, you know, whatever, take over all of that stuff. But there's all these battles that go on to win the war. And so you need to identify each one of those battles has different missions in the battle, and you need to identify right away. It's like how does this how does this topic sit with leadership? Not really well. Okay, so now the mission is is to keep this topic on the table so that we can keep on presenting it in, you know, in in a positive light, and we can give all the information that's needed because we realize that this change would be would be monumental for our organization, which is partly why it's such a challenge to make that change.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

I love being able to take it and break it down. Like, because how many times have I heard 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time in the last 10 years? I've and that's just me, that's when I started getting plugged in, was about 10 years ago. And I've heard it so many times, but I've never gotten tactical with it. I have never started dissecting the statement and saying, okay, what does that actually look like in implementation? Because it's a great, it's a it's a great statement. And it's a it's almost like a throw. I don't want to say a throwaway, it's like a plithy, like a little, like a nice little altruism. Yeah, 10 pounds of pressure, 100% of the time. But once you start breaking it down and start understanding that the pressure and where it needs to go and how you can back off and keep it on the table and then learn to apply the pressure, but one of the things you keep saying as we talk is relationships, relationships, relationships. And like you alluded to, you and Jody, your marriage, and she can take a lot more pressure because of the relationship. So I want to get tactical in it and start breaking down and talking about how you I don't want to say manipulate, but that's it the or influence, persuades, persuade, yeah. Is there a way to identify and like you said, every organization is different, so this is a loaded question, but is there a place that that you can give people direction on how to identify where to exert their 10 pounds in their organization as far as the types of people they need to start? And again, because because we're talking about different organizations, different people, different things you're trying to change. I know it's a very multifaceted question, but I want to try and get granular on it and dig into it and how you've learned to apply that pressure.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

You first of all, evaluate your relationship with the the decision makers at your level or in your organization. Because let's say, because right now I'm talking about being a you know, being a company officer and and wanting to, as as a you know, one of the latter officers, wanting to move the department in a direction of getting a TDA. I mean, using this as the example. So my dis my decision makers above me are going to be maybe maybe the BCs, but not always the BCs. I mean, it's good to bring the BCs on board, but the decision makers is the ops chief and the training chief, typically in an organization, because training drives a lot of what operations is doing, and operations is basically signing off on what training wants to do. So if I can if I can f evaluate my relationship with both of those individuals at the company officer level, then uh if I know that I don't have the strongest relationship, then I have to foster relationships. I mean, this is this is like, you know, when we're talking about lobbying and everything else that goes on in this world, these are all tactics of lobbyists, right? Build relationships. Sometimes you got to spend some money, collateral, whatever it is, to build those relationships, making sacrifices. You know, it's not always financial. So where does my where is my relationship with the ops chief? And where is my relationship with the training chief? And so in my organization at that time, my relationship with the training chief was a little weird, awkward. I'll just say awkward.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

And my relationship with the ops chief, I think was really good. I rode heavier on the ops chief with things because I banked on him to help convince the training chief and and you know, work that angle with the training chief. If my relationship was different and the training chief was the one that I had a stronger relationship, I'd I'd do it opposite, right? But it's all about the evaluation element or you know, assessing where do I sit in the relationships. Relationship is key. So if I'm a firefighter, how do I make change as a firefighter?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

That's a great question because we get that question like almost every time I teach a class, someone will raise their hand and say, How do I? Yeah, it's a great question. Go.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

So it's it's again, it's the relationship. You got to look up and you got to find out, you know, your decision maker is now your company officer. And if your company officer thinks you're full of shit and and doesn't believe in what you are bringing to the table, it ain't going. Well, I won't say it ain't going anywhere. It's like that is gonna be a huge dead end because you need you you need an advocate. And if he he or she is not gonna be your advocate, then it's gonna be even harder to get change. Because now, now it's gonna be question. If you like, well, Captain Fisher is not supporting me, and I'm I'm that person's captain, they're gonna go over to Captain Moore and start talking to Captain Moore to try to get some buy-in. Then what's that? How does that look to the department or to the you know, to the one, to that individual's peers, to their officer, Captain Fisher? I'm looking at as like that guy is he's he's undermining me. Yeah, he or she is going and is not including me. And that's gonna be bad for the relationships moving forward. So you have to recognize those, you have to build off of those, you got to figure out what you know what what's the obstacles, but you can get change moving forward. Uh, as a firefighter, the other thing, you know, like trying to get change and using the 10 pounds of pressure is is being engaged and getting on committees so that you have uh another voice. So not only does it come through your boss, your you know, your company officer, but once you're on a committee, now you have other people that are listening to you at different angles, different parts of the department. So now you have more people with ears on you that you know, more people you can share, legit share because you're on a committee, you can share that information.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Well, the other part of it is, and uh let's see if this analogy holds water for you, is the more connections you can make without torpedoing the chain of command or or seeming to try and go around your direct reports or anything like that, right? Without that appearance, the more points of pressure you create, the more pressure you can actually do because now it's spread out. Is that is that a cool analogy to make, or is that does that hold water in in what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Absolutely, and I will add to that is like uh I don't know if you've seen that video where it's got the weird guy dancing on a hill. Yes, absolutely. Shannon don't you use it?

SPEAKER_00 31:57

I think you use it in one of your classes. No, Shannon does, and that's where I saw it. But I think Ben Martin may also I've seen it, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

But there's multi multiple people use that, and and what they're showing is how do you get a movement? How do you get a movement? Well, you gotta have followers, and so when you circumvent systems or when you don't include your peers, then that's how you lose followers. And so if you have a good following, then that that helps your case immensely. Because now when the ops chief is looking and it's like all the company officers in a you know in an operational meeting are going, yeah, we we uh we think that a TDA would be really good. And when individual when company officers from stations that are not working where the truck is at, and they're going, yeah, I I I I would uh I'd support this. Now it makes it even harder for an ops chief or a training chief or anybody to go against. And now, granted, there's always just poor leadership at some organizations, and everybody in the organization can be saying, Hey, we know how to do this. And somebody says, Well, you know what? I've got these four bugles right here that tell me I got to make that decision. But, you know, in in in most departments, there's there's decent leadership, and that uh any good leader or any decent leader is gonna be like, man, everybody wants this. What am I missing? You know, what what what am I not seeing that I'm I'm being the resistant on this? But the idea of getting you know, getting followers uh is that you gotta build your your following. And and you know, and to add to your point, you have to have a lot of these connections uh moving forward because when other people and other divisions are supporting your, you know, supporting your cause, then you know it's just like lobbying. When you when the lobbyists can come in and you're trying to push a bill or something and and everybody and it's and it's uh you know across the um across the floor and it's bipartisan is like that's that's ultimately what gets stuff done that that reduces all of your challenges. And so essentially that's what we're trying to do when we're when we're using 10 pounds of pressure 100 of the time. We're trying to create bipartisan, we're trying to get followers, and we're trying to get you know listeners to to sit down, and then again being honest with your your data, not hiding anything, being completely transparent and presenting it as it as it is, and let the let the data support itself. I mean, if if the data doesn't support it, then it's probably not what you should be doing, at least in your organization.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

And if you have to hide the data to keep your to keep the idea moving forward, you might need to reevaluate what you're trying to push.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

So just think of politics today and some of the things you're going like something, you know, and and what do we it doesn't matter what side of the what side of this you're sitting on in politics is like everybody starts questioning when something is being hidden. It does again, it doesn't matter what side you're on.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

No, and when we start questioning the the legitimate, you know, the the the authenticity of the motives and all of that, but the the worst part is is the rumors that spring up and the conspiracy theories that sprout and get legs whenever there is, and then it even if it's a ridiculous conspiracy theory, and this this is true in fire departments or politics, which that's almost synonymous, but the uh the less people know, the more rumors and conspiracy theories have room to grow. But the actual like super fertilizer steroid shot to them is when something uh a an actual falsehood gets exposed, and then it's like, look, see, no matter how ridiculous the conspiracy theory was, now it has so much more weight.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

I'll use when we made the change to to bulk beds, and we had we'd actually switched to smoothboard nozzles before we made the change to the bulk beds. And I had a partner in crime helping push the bulk bed uh uh concept. And we used to do, I'm sure a lot of departments would do that, their extended style stretch is to stretch some type of pre-connected two and a half that was on their rig. And we called it the blitz line, but they'd stretch the blitz line, they'd pull the nozzle off, they'd grab a bundle that had a gated Y, they'd connect the gated Y to it, and then they'd be able to extend you know a bundle off of that, right? And when we were talking about the bulk beds, you know, obviously when you're trying to push uh static load or bulk bed, whatever you want to call it, when you're trying to push something like that, everybody is like we're we're not the FDNY, we're we're not Chicago Fire Department. And I'm like, no, no, hang on a second. The versatility that this bed is gonna give us is actually gonna make us quicker because we are being, you know, being a suburban department and having apartment complexes where you you can't get the line. So you it's just like stretching. We needed to stretch 300 feet, not you know, because our pre-connect at the time was 200 feet. Right. What do we do when we got it? Well, we just pulled a blitz line and then put a bundle on it. I'm like, right, but this bulk bed is going to allow us to be able to stretch 300 feet, 350 feet, 400 feet if we need to. And then we challenged everybody. And so two company officers challenged anybody that that wanted to do it. It's like, you guys do your blitz, extended blitz attack, and me and at the time, Lieutenant Demonda, we're gonna stretch the bulk bed, and we're gonna see how this works. You know, like, well, it takes so much time to connect it to the pump panel, and da-da-da. We were killing them, we were just destroying people. And then when you start looking at the data and you're going, like, you can stretch a minute and a half faster, or whatever it was. Now it made it really difficult for anybody to argue against it. Even, you know, even the training chief and the ops chief, they're going, all right, well, how do we make the transition to bulk beds when we've always when all of our engines are all pre-connected and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so what's it look like? And so then you got to piece together again. This kind of goes back to we keeping the conversation on the table. And now we made we made headway. So let's say that 10 pounds of pressure has now turned into 20 pounds of pressure because we've got them interested. They they can see it. It's just a matter of here are the obstacles. How do we make the transition? How do we do this? You're like, okay, so one of our challenges is going to be training in a department this size. This is how many hours we're looking at training, this is what it's going to take, the training division, or this is what it's going to take to bring in, you know, guys and gals on overtime. This is the estimated cost. This is all of these things. And now I'm presenting, I'm not just saying, hey, here's here's what I want to do. Here's, I don't want to even say here's the solution. Here's what I want to do, and there's still a lot of problems and no solutions to it. I'm coming to them and I'm saying, because I've made some headway, I'm coming and I'm saying, so here's gonna be our obstacles. This is how long it's gonna take for us to put it into service. This is the map, this is the modifications we're gonna have to make to the engines. You know, some modifications might cost us a little bit of time and money, and some are not gonna cost us anything at all. So we move those apparatus to the top of the list because we can do it right away. Well, now we're gonna have apparatus that's gonna have some bulk bed and and some not. Right. And then then you start playing the argument. I'm like, well, they better be able to pull pre-connects, but we're making the change to bulk beds. Well, our neighboring department has pre-connects, so how are we gonna, are we just gonna forget how to pull pre-connects? We still have to know how to pull pre-connects. That doesn't mean that we're no longer gonna be pulling pre-connects anymore. And now, so I'm being 100% honest again with the information. So, so yeah, that might be a little bit of a challenge, but our people should be able to do both. And and then that becomes 25 pounds of pressure and 50 pounds of pressure to the point of where you've got so much movement going and everybody's in buy-in that that just allows for you to increase the amount of pressure. But 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time is the statement. It gets us to a starting point, right? And like I like I said earlier, you might find that 10 pounds of pressure is too much, and you gotta you gotta throttle that back and go one pound and assess your situation, build on your relationships, you know, whatever it's gonna take to get the topic to stay on the table so that when you come into the room, it might feel like a joke, but you come into the room and it's like, oh, it's the TDA guy that wants to talk about TDAs again. And uh guess what? It's on the table. They're the ones that brought it up, not me. I can I can choose to like, oh come on, guys, or I can just say, well, you know what, I don't want to talk about TDAs right now. I want to talk about this. But guess what? Every time they bring it up, I'm occupying space in their head, right? It's all I gotta do. It's all I gotta do. I just gotta say this.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

It's there, it's floating about. This talk has made me think of Gladwell. I love Tipping Point. I don't know if you've read Tipping Point recently or or if it's on that bookshelf behind you there. The the reason I bring it up is because he identifies three types of people. If you want, I don't say if you I I'm I'm paraphrasing something, a book I haven't read in about five years. But I remember the people, which is the the connectors, what he calls mavens, and then the salesman. And I think it's I think it's I think it plays into this in some way, shape, or form is that if you can identify the people, because there are connectors, and that's people who have great networks within your organization. And it might be the connection to the ops chief, it might be the connection to the training chief, it might be the connection to the men and women on the line that has a lot of influence, you know. But identifying your connectors, your Mavens are your subject matter experts. They're your how does he put it? They're the people that people go to when they want to know something about something. They're they're your sub your SMEs, your subject matter experts. And then finally, the uh the salesman. There, those are your influencers in your organization. Those are the uh, and I think he gets into early adopters and late adopters and the laggards and all that kind of stuff, which is fascinating for what I'm talking about. But I think there's something where it applies. If you can identify those people in your organization, it can be part of the blueprint for applying that 10 pounds of pressure. Yeah, I haven't read that book, and I I gotta add it to my list. You would be fascinating. Gladwell is one of my favorites, and and and his ability to his ability to analyze and put a structure to things like the dancing man and say, okay, this is what's going on. You know, that's the early adopter. That that first guy that goes and dance with him, that's the first follower. You know what I'm saying? And your early adopters will always move first, and it's so important, so important that your person wanting to implement the change, the dancing man, he has to embrace and basically love the early adopter and praise him and make a big deal about him. Otherwise, you squash the movement before it can even begin. And it's a it's a fascinating uh tipping point's awesome. Now, you said a lot about relationships here. So let's let's delve into relationships a little bit because I think that's tied to that beautiful word uh emotional intelligence or maturity, however, you want to do it. I want to go from the angle of because we get this all the time. My chief's a sack of shit, or my captain hates change, or he's stuck in his way. Insert whatever the concrete, unchanging obstacle of a person that's there. What is the 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time? How does that apply to that immovable force? That is, you're basically the normal answer is we got to wait till that person retires before anything's gonna happen. Type deal.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah, I mean, I guess to to to build the relationship, you you gotta have time and presence with them. You've got to, you know, show like a genuine interest in in the in the individual. So I think that's if I were to go back to my my earlier days, I was just like wanting change so quickly, being able to go out and see. you know attend training and go to these conferences I looked at my organization I'm like oh man we are so far behind and to some to some degree we were behind in some ways yeah absolutely but what I didn't have is I didn't have the maturity to understand like uh how to how to get the get that movement or how to to make the change but when you're when you're trying to build the relationship and I I did a really poor job and I I don't want to get sidetracked because I know we were on one topic but while we're talking about relationships I mean that's that those are the lessons that I learned later in my career that if I could go back I'd I'd change a lot of things on how I developed relationships. And um so one of them is is presence and this this gets brought up all the time when we're talking about leadership. It's like probably 90% of being a good leader is just being present. And that's where where a lot of people make mistakes and so um you know how I how I reference that or how I connect that to you know my chief's a sack of shit and doesn't do these things and you're not going to get them to be present but you that you can always be present and you got to show respect right you got to be genuine with them. So when you get the time to be with this this leader that's not helping in any way you know being there spending time with them actually listening which you know the communication model right the the listen the listening aspect of it is being mature enough that when you sit down with these people that you want to to make change with or you need to try to convince them and change is like spending time with them. So it doesn't you don't have to spend an hour with them and obviously a lot of times the ops chief and the fire chief and those they don't have an hour to give you but when you are with them you make their you make that time with them valuable to them and to you right and so you got to show a genuine interest. And then probably the last thing about the developing the relationship is consistency and that they can count on you they can read you like a book right they know what your slip ups are going to be they know you know they can see it coming or you know your consistency basically lays the groundwork for you know for that relationship because if you were inconsistent with things then you you know you potentially are a fraud you you you know you're you're not genuine okay and you and I got caught up on that word is it disingenuine is it ingenuine is it right you remember oh yeah but one of our one of our many rabbit holes it was but without consistency so it's it's it's time and presence with them it's consistency and it's and genuine interest in who they are and and what they so like if they are going Rob I do not see our department get into TDA well I can be turned off by that and then fight or argue or I could sit back and I can listen to it and then um this is this is a you know like a Ted Lasso thing is be curious you know even though I'm the one that's trying to create something but keep be curious not judgmental and and listen to what they're saying. And they're like you know this is this is just not going to happen in our organization. Okay well can you I mean list me what are the what are the challenges what do you see are the challenges why we can't do this and so they mention budget and they mentioned training and they mention you know station size and all of these things. So I'm showing a genuine interest in their their position rather than shut their position down I'm listening to them and I'm like okay jot down notes I mean literally right not figuratively literally jot down notes take away something so that when you spent 15 minutes with them and and yeah you feel like maybe you've lost something you actually got more information to go back to put into let's look at these things go back to your followers and go like hey chief chief said the biggest issue is going to be um the biggest issue is going to be budget all right how do we how do we find money in the budget to be able to do this what what are the things that we need to do okay what how do how do we do these things and then when I have the meeting again down the road or when you know when the group has the meeting again down the road they're like so in our last meeting chief one of the things you brought up was budget you brought up training you brought up this and that it's like I'd I'd like to if you if you have time I'd like to be able to address some of these things some of the you know some of the ideas that we have that we think might resolve these these challenges for us okay and and that's that's you know that's the element of being genuinely being interested in what they have to say.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

No and it also sounds like it it means doing work which is probably another reason why a lot of people do not take the time to do it is because it does sound like well now you're going and actually putting in effort to make this thing happen. It's not just bitching and moaning up the chain of command.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And I mean if you really think about it and it's kind of what you were talking about earlier about the Maven is like you you've got to create the the person the the followers or the group has to be the one that can see it and has to sell it. I mean well not the salesman but they got to be the subject matter expert in it because the decision maker if they're a really good leader they're not going to know everything they're gonna trust they're gonna trust their people they're gonna trust their subject matter experts they're gonna trust their leadership and so what you want to do is present them a concept and have them go hmm what I'm shooting for kind of going back going back to what we were talking about earlier what I'm shooting for is to keep the the concept on the table. Right you know that's what I'm shooting for is just keep the concept on the table so we can keep on talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

I was going to say in an ideal world because I love the the Ted Lasso, be curious, not judgmental I love that and if you worked for a boss who was that way I feel like you can make good changes you could have good impact in that department and a good back and forth and communication and relationships and that beautiful thing trust. But like you I think you said it you said a good leader who does knows they don't know everything and so they rely on other people. They're subject matter experts right but the problem is is we get a lot of people in leadership positions who think they know everything. That's the one that's the the difficulty to apply the 10 that's the one that it feels so I'm gonna say this the right way it feels so much more gratifying to club right as a human being it it it fulfills your soul.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

On that club on that clubbing I want to I want to have the whole mist of blood all over me when it happens a good bludgeoning.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Yet cheered on by the people who are also frustrated by that same self same person. You know so that that all exists there. It's not like 10 pounds just erases that person.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah and it goes I mean go back to what we said a little bit earlier. It's like being able to read the room being able to read you know the situation and you know if you've got a if you got you know if you've got somebody that's a I mean let's say I was the ops chief and I I consider myself a pretty good I I feel like I I understand truck work fairly well and I I feel pretty you know competent um absolutely I'd say a subject matter expert I wouldn't say I'm the expert but I just imagine I could just I could just see if I were to be an ops chief somewhere and somebody comes to me and says Chief we want to get a bucket quint I'd be going oh and it's and it's not because of the bucket the quint and and and it's not a TDA but I I kind of know I mean I feel like I'm I'm pretty I feel like I understand that stuff pretty well yes how do I not shut this this young firefighter down and the way that I do that is I'm intrigued I show a genuine interest okay it's everything that we're talking about with relationships is like I spend time I'm present I'm I'm genuinely interested in what they are what they're talking about and I'm like okay you got you got my uh you got my my interest so let's tell me a little bit about your your montrosity bucket quint you know tell me why why do you see that that would be a a you know a good thing for our organization I mean I I was I was never an ops chief at that level so I I don't know exactly how that but I can just picture how hard that would be no no no without a doubt and this is something I hope people take away who listen to this who are in positions that are decision makers that are subject matter experts in their fields whether they're they truly are or whether they are fooling themselves and they have no business thinking that way.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Not the point. The point is if you are in that position that ops chief position that training chief position chief of department a cool takeaway that I just got from Rob on this is if you want to keep people from punching up at you and being gratified in that red mist like and feeling good about it is be curious like like take on a curious stance even when you know you're right take on a curious and be genuinely interested in what they have to say and let them work through it.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Hey make them feel make them feel heard I think that's a key in that being a leader is before you say no before you shut somebody down because we've always done it that way or because you know maybe you do maybe maybe as the as a decision maker as a leader you do know that this isn't gonna this isn't possible. Right. But don't shut down the enthusiasm of those individuals and be curious. Listen to what they have to say. I mean you don't have to listen to them for an hour and you can you can be pretty you know I'll give you 10 minutes give me your sales pitch for 10 minutes and let's see where this goes you you have to make sacrifices in leadership you have to make a lot of sacrifices as you well know right and so the higher you go the more sacrifices there the I and I would say the less control you have of of a lot of things but a lot of sacrifices need to be made and so maybe maybe I did want to be the training chief or I wanted to be the the ops chief one day but the sacrifice that I had to make was to the mission of of having a good truck culture and do certain things um and not like I'm trying to be a martyr but but that was part of the sacrifice and and and be it that it's you know it's you know divine intervention or somebody way above is got my plan and while I might think that I need to be the next best fire chief you know the next chief Thompson or whatever maybe just the way the situation presents itself and where I'm at in the organization that my destiny was to be a company officer in a suburban department pushing and changing the organization that's that's what was written for me and and to get things done and that that's part of the sacrifice. You don't always get what you want.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

But you do get to always choose whether you're moving the mission forward and keeping it on the table. I love it. Okay so I always like to know and try to give the the audience takeaways so what is the first big takeaway as as we as we're winding down on this topic of 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time takeaway number one that you want the audience to walk away with takeaway number one I'm gonna I'm gonna boil it down to the first takeaway is trust.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

And um I think that and I can't remember the exact uh question but what is the key characteristics of basically of of being able to get stuff done and without hesitation trust trust and it says it just like that trust trust and then it goes into a really long explanation on how important trust is at that level so the first takeaway is trust and how that without having trust in in all of that you're doing when people don't trust you um they're not it doesn't matter what you're selling it doesn't matter what you're trying to convince when you cannot build trust between those that are at your level above you and below you you can't get anything done. I mean it's just that's just it's the human nature of things outside of the fire service outside of everything when people don't trust you they're not going to listen to you they're not gonna give you time a day nothing I think the biggest one of the biggest takeaways the first one should be you need to start looking at in your relationships with people where are you building trust and how you're building trust and one thing that I would say is um in in one of my other classes on leadership we I was like it's not about everything the trust that you're building it's it's like being able to recognize when you're losing trust because that that happens I mean that's just human nature you make you make mistakes you some things you do you're gonna lose a little bit of trust so being able to recognize when you've lost some trust for whatever it is and how do you how do you patch that up how do you how do you fix that so trust is definitely one of the takeaways from all of this.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

And I want to I want to I want to just say this because we talked about it earlier that presence and when you said that it made me think of this which is when you say because it's just human nature you you gradually lose trust over time. And I think presence is one of those things that keeps that or stifles that loss of trust or or puts the finger in the dam so to speak of keeping it from happening.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Yeah I'll use use the example of some of the challenges that I had with leadership and part of the reason why I you know had to I just decided that it was just good time for me to retire is uh I didn't trust I didn't trust the leadership above me I didn't trust the the fire chief but the thing to your point the thing that he lacked was he was he he was definitely he was disingenuine and what he lacked was presence he he he he didn't want to be around us he didn't want to come in he didn't want to spend time and then all of a sudden he'd come in and it'd be like you know it's like like we've had this this really deep relationship no we didn't so we didn't trust him so so that's the key being present being consistent you know uh being genuine that all builds trust so trust is the first takeaway i cannot i cannot think of something i have more uh passion about than that that the tenth l the hidden l the secret l it is trust okay uh what is your second takeaway takeaway number two the second one is respect and so when we start doing you know working on trust you've gotta you gotta give respect if you if you expect to get respect and and and really the reality is it's all based everything that we've talked about is based on the relationship itself and that that's going to be the third one we'll get to that in a second but if if I can't show respect and that's respecting their time that's respecting their opinion that's respecting everything then if I disrespect all of that stuff and then all of a sudden I want the opportunity to make change I want the opportunity to I want you to listen to what I have to say about something it ain't gonna happen. And so so trying to figure out you know am I am I showing respect to get respect because I'm not going to get it in any other way. You know what? And it doesn't matter what for for those that are at the top that have multiple bugles and you are not going to be respected because you have multiple bugles. You're gonna be respected because you spend time with the crews you spend time with the people you're curious not judgmental you're you're present in in in everything that they're doing you don't have to agree with everything you just got to be there. That's how you're gonna get respected.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

And so respect's number two. Respect is dude this is a beautiful way to wrap it up what is the third takeaway and you already alluded to it but go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

Yeah number the third takeaway is relationships and on the 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time that's how you're gonna get it done be it that you start off at 10 or you start off lower but without relationships in this profession and really in life without relationships you you you're really gonna you're gonna have a hard time getting places you're gonna have a hard time accomplishing a lot of things and so um fostering good relationships and very similar to trust being able to see where your relationships are struggling who are you who you know who are you struggling with relationships why why is that relationship struggling the first thing is look in the mirror and and what am I doing to create such a struggle in the relationship um you know rather than cast judgment that it's the other person and figure out what like where am I culpable in this and then you know then you know try to figure out how together between the two of us we're you know we're we're struggling on our relationship. So if I could go back to a a younger Rob Fisher that got promoted at very young age the things that I would be telling I I think I understood back then that trust was key but the thing that I would really be pushing on them pushing on Rob, the younger Rob was, you know, working on respect and developing relationships. And I think you know my career probably would have been a little bit different in how it ended if I would have been more attentive to you know more emotional intelligence on my understanding how I fit in the room how I was acting in the room how how I came off to other people and ultimately as like developing the relationships that I need to move forward. I mean if if you're a young firefighter and you're wanting to be a company officer you want to work on all three of those things. I mean and we're talking outside of the fire, you know the outside of doing 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time but you want to work on all those things and as you move up and you become a driver or you become a company officer and now you're a battalion chief is like those things are even more and more critical and when you when you can master those at a younger age as you grow into the to new positions you're gonna be you're gonna be unstoppable.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

I love it man and this is one of the things I love about your third takeaway actually all three of your takeaways is that they kind of are there's a totality like if you have if you work on building trust and you give respect you're gonna build a relationship. I think that's just the byproduct I don't I don't know if it I can't think of a way that that doesn't occur.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

It's definitely the result. Again if you're doing trust and you're doing you know you're doing respect you're you're gonna create the relationship but the thing is is like the step back and to realize early on that relationships are going to be your key to change relationships are going to be your key to to to promotions relationships are going to be your key when you're at the top and in influencing the people below you that you know maybe a big maybe a tough decision. Yeah you know maybe a really tough decision is like I mean we didn't even talk about that but but but let's say that there's something that the fire chief because of loss of funding or whatever it is and we have to we have to make some cuts or we have to make some changes without having relationships without having an organization that trusts you you know without establishing respect because of the the pe the person that you are it's gonna be really hard uh to to get through that challenge because they're gonna be like the chief's full of shit he's doing it for his own good you know he he we do have the money all of those things the rumors the conspiracy theories yeah they're all back they're all back but if the chief has a good relationship with their people and again that doesn't mean you agree with everything they're doing and you let them do whatever they want but but if if the leadership and the decision makers have good relationships and have built trust and trust is from top to bottom in the organization and you know basically the uh the unicorn of of of a of an organization but when it's top to bottom then when you have a difficult situation ahead just like as the person from below trying to push change up when you're trying to bring change down in the organization they need it too they need to have the relationships they need to have trust and respect it'll be a lot easier to make that change in in when you do have it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

No that's beautiful and and and it again beautiful takeaways. I hope and that's the cool part I love about this is there's takeaways for the people at the top to make it smoother there's takeaways for people at the bottom who want to answer that question. How do I make an impact at my department? So all that being said I absolutely love the discussion. I want to hear your parting shot what is your parting shot you want to leave everybody with as we wrap up the solo on the topic of 10 pounds of pressure 100

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

I think the parting shot is just basically being engaged in in what you're doing and realizing that you might be passionate about something, but that doesn't mean that everybody is passionate about the same thing that you are. Really, what you got to do is if you're young, you know, seek some mentors and and help them guide you through some of this. We've all been there. I had some good mentors, but I wish I had uh better mentor that better mentors that could have seen some of my obstacles I was creating for myself. You know, being able to recognize that stuff, but but being engaged. You and I we're we're out to a lot of conferences, you're more than me, but when you're in a room of all highly engaged, high performers, passionate, I mean, they're the ones that are at those conferences. It's like you know, fishing in a barrel. It's easy for us to to preach something, to share something, to, to give all that. But what we need to do is we need to see more individuals in the American Fire Service engage. And you don't have to be engaged at a level of Corley Moore or Rob Fisher or anybody else, but just be a little bit more engaged. So the 10 the 10 pounds of pressure works for everybody. When you're when you're engaged and you're viewed as somebody that's engaged and you show respect and you you're trusted and you've you've fostered really good relationships, people are gonna listen to you. It might be off the wall, but people are gonna listen to you. They're gonna they're gonna give you the time to be able to present your off-the-wall topic. But um I mean that's that's all that takes. So don't cut this out. I want to make sure that this is in. Uh I just want to say, I just want to say thank you very much for the opportunity. Uh yes, I'm I'm number you know number five in uh you know the vigilantes, and I'm and I'm I'm doing number five. I was reluctant to do this. I and you know, that's all that's a talk for another time with maybe a glass of wine sometime, but but I'm so glad that you were persistent enough to to get me to bite off on this. I this was a lot of fun. And then just lastly, thank you for everything that you do, the impact that you have on the American Fire Service. Uh, I try to watch you know every scrap, I try to be engaged, you know, and all the scraps. I absolutely love it. I know it's it's pushing the needle, it's uh it's it's doing a lot of really good things. And so um I I love being a part of the solo. I love being a part of the the scraps over the years. And so thank you for everything you do. Thank Amanda. You're your number one. I mean, she's your hype, she's your hype gal. She's and so between you and Amanda, you guys are phenomenal. You guys have done a lot of really good for the American Fire Service.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Thank you, Rob. Uh that means the world to me. It really does. I'm terrible at taking compliments, so I have to learn to say thank you because I'm like, oh, I tried to downplay it. Or you know, you know me. I it it puts me in, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

I know, I know, I know, I know. All right, thank you. And I was just saying, I'll just I'll just say this. I love you, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

Thanks for listening. New episodes of the solo drop of the first of every month. What topic do you want to hear solo? Make sure and let me know. See you at the next solo.