Living With Presence in a Chaotic World (The "Disembodied" Problem)

We live in a world designed to keep us from the neck up. Between the screens, the data, and the constant digital noise, men are becoming 'floating heads'—detached from the very skin they live in. I know from this happening in my life and to me this detachment wasn't just a loss of feeling: it was a loss of power. 

When we lose touch with our somatic selves, we lose our intuition, we lose our ability to stay present with our families, and I know what’s true for me in those chapters of my life - I wasn’t the leader or the father that I wanted to be. 

In the spirit of understanding ourselves and pushing through the seduction of today’s world and what it wants us to be, we’re walking this line of our shadows with Ross McKenzie in this episode. Ross is producer of the well known movie Bipolarized and his story is one that we can all learn from. 

https://rossmckenzie.com/

https://bipolarized.rossmckenzie.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, welcome listeners. I'm incredibly excited about today's episode. In previous episodes, we've talked about the impact of the digital age. And the truth is that we live in a world that is designed to keep us from the neck up. And a lot of us as men are living between screens, looking at data, there is constant digital noise. And the risk here is that men become floating heads. And the bigger risk is that they become detached from the very skin that they live in. And I know this from it being the case in my own life, that when I was detached due to things that I was going through, it wasn't just a loss of feeling, it was an actual loss of my own power. And so when we lose touch with our somatic selves, and that's what we're talking with our guests about today, we lose our intuition, we lose our ability to stay present with family, and I certainly know that this has been true in my life, and in addition to that, I wasn't the leader or the father that I wanted to be when I lost touched with being embodied. So, in the spirit of understanding ourselves and pushing through this deduction of today's world and what it wants us to be, today we're walking this line of shadows with my good friend and guest Ross Mackenzie. Welcome, Ross.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Thanks so much, Michael. Awesome to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, so uh I'm excited. Uh you know, Ross's story literally shines a light, uh, and you learn more about his life story, about the importance of becoming and being fully embodied in our lives. So, in addition to being a dear friend of mine, and I'm gonna brag about Ross a little bit because you'll learn he's very humble and won't do that for himself. Uh Ross is an empath, and he's an empathetic facilitator. I know because I've been in retreats with him, and he's been a facilitator, and he's helped me unpack some unbelievable things. Uh, he is a mentor and a coach to many people. We're blessed to have him in our lives. Uh, and through his work, he's become a skilled relational schematic counselor and a professional life coach. And part of Ross's story is that he was diagnosed with bipolar. He made a movie called Bipolarized, acclaimed around the world, a lot of awards, um, you know, incredible part of his story, and I'm so excited he's here to share that with us today. So, Ross, I'll I'll turn it over to you just to give yourself an introduction uh to our guests, why you're passionate about this work and you know why you're here with me today.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Well, thanks, Michael. Yeah, it's um, gosh, it's been a long journey. I mean, the the misdiagnosis of bipolar was back in March of 1993, led me on a uh kind of a dark night of the soul journey. And I was originally put on lithium for it, which ended up being on for 18 years. So I was kind of in the Canadian mental health system for a long, long time, but knowing that that was a broken, uh very one-dimensional system, and um, so it was it was it was a blessing to kind of experience that because it really led me on kind of my own self-exploration using my my own body, mind, and spirit as kind of a uh an experiment, and it just it propelled me to go on a journey to just kind of research all things kind of holistic, functional medicine, all things to do with kind of a mind-body-spirit approach to addressing mental health. And it was really, I would say, I mean, where you and I met when we actually did our somatic training with Michael and Jeff, um, that was a big unlocking of a key for me in the whole journey because it's at that point I've been doing so many years of talk therapy. And I think there's a place for talk therapy, but what I realized after a while, after years of talk therapy and then coming to somatic therapy, which is more like getting into the body, like what's being stored in the tissues, is that if you if you just talk yourself in talk therapy, I was I was uh I was an expert at talking my own story, but I think now when I look back and realize that in in some ways just doing talk therapy can be more traumatizing than it actually can be helpful in healing. So getting to the somatic work and getting into the body, getting into the stored, like you know, the grief and the anger that was just stored in the tissues, stored in the nervous system, and starting to unpack that, that was that was a big awakening and opener for me to be like, wow, there's there's so much more to this healing journey, and then that's where things started to become embodied. Um, an example I always give of going from just you know, I had I had a I was a father late in life. I was a I had my daughter, first child, my daughter, when I was 40 years old. And when this little baby, as little babies do, they kind of cry and they they go through tantrums, and because I had so much of my own kind of pain and trauma and grief uh that was um hadn't been addressed, you know, as we call that kind of the shadow work, is what this work is. Um it was hard for me to even like hold um my child when my child would go into these tantrums, my baby. And I remember going off to um it was one of our first few trainings that we did together. I was living in Costa Rica at that time, flying back to Toronto where we were doing the work, the the somatic training, and um I remember just the first big piece of work of just releasing a lot of grief and a lot of rage. Uh or sorry, rage that was then underneath was the grief. And I went I went back home from that experience and it was uh you know my my daughter went into kind of you know, she was still a little tiny baby, went into like a some sort of fit of some sort, and it was the first time I was able to go and pick her and hold her up, like just hold her in my arms. And so that to me, and of course it was just kind of mind-blowing for my wife too, because my wife was always the one who would have to step in in those moments. So um, to me, that was like kind of a first example of how the work can start to manifest and and that where the healing was beginning.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

So um, yeah, I I wanted to I won't I wanted to just go um, I mean, it just it's such an incredible story what you've gone through, Ross, and kind of sort of, you know, bring us back to uh, you know, you're you're on lithium, you're diagnosed with bipolar at a very young age, you know, and in the spirit of what we're talking to our listeners about today, you know, the numbing effects of life and medication and the things that we've gone through, alcohol, drugs, you know, take us back to what it was like to live with that kind of fog. You know, when you think about your own human design, do you can you remember what that was like? The contrast in terms of what that was like then and what what it's like now for you.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, I mean, it really feels like two different lives living in this one life. I mean, I for me, every every evening I would take 900 milligrams of um lithium carbonate, and I would take it at night, and every morning I would wake up, so basically from age like 21 to 38, and every morning I'd wake up feeling like I was hit by a semi-truck, um, just exhausted, brain fog, um, anxiety, uh, you know, kind of just a low level of depression. And so that was just that was ongoing for years and years and years during during the formative years of my life. Uh, it was not an easy time. And um, so you know, for me, the contrast to like that life, and then um, you know, the the big kicker for me was like I had to go get my blood work checked every three to four months because you have to, otherwise you can have what's called lithium toxicity, it can be life-threatening. And so they did check to make sure your levels weren't too high and you're getting into toxic levels, there's like a therapeutic level. Um, and uh so my doctor calls me in a panic. This is about nine years into the the journey of the lithium journey, I call it, and um all the all the while I was still, you know, you know, doing things that were holistic and still getting to the bottom of it. But the problem is I had this very toxic substance that was like uh, you know, creating like a chemical lobotomy for lack of a better term. And so my doctor calls me in, he's like, listen, uh, he was a little, I could hear panic in his voice. He said, Listen, your your kidneys are starting to show signs of burn and tear, the lithium goes through the kidneys, um, and you you have lithium toxicity. And that to me was a big wake-up call because I was like, Oh man, I I really need to now, I need to get to the bottom of this, I need to get off this stuff. I'm not feeling great. My life feels like it's kind of going in circles at a standstill. And um, so that kind of like up the game. That then led me, I think one or two years later, while my father was in the process of passing and then passed away, um, to end up coming down here to Costa Rica to go to a clinic to detox off of lithium. And um, and and that was kind of that so that was yeah, that was February, March 2010. And that was the beginning of kind of the reclaiming of my life. And um it was not it was not a straight linear line, it was it was like it was uh there's a lot of ups and downs. There's I can imagine 18 years of lithium had to I did there's a lot of rebuilding the body um that had to be done, and just you know the spirit and and kind of also feeling like catching up on one what felt a little bit like lost time, like formative years of being kind of in such a chemically lobotomized haze. Yeah, I can imagine. Um you know, so so yeah, but that I always kind of consider kind of you know February March 2010 to be kind of like a the second life, the new beginning.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And uh yeah, and that's where kind of the the new life started, and I started to repair and rebuild and and uh and then start to do this work of like realizing that at that point that's where the that's where I started to write the film, then the film ended up being uh made. I got to co-produce it with some amazing producers like top documentary filmmaker in Canada, Gord Henderson, and I did parallel productions, and it was it was it was a magical moment of beautiful synchronicities kind of coming together to be like, oh this is time to tell this this story now. That there's millions of people being diagnosed, millions of people being medicated, and um and uh you know, and I and I say this all to say I think there there is a place for these medications, but that approach is very much a one-dimensional approach, and when you go in to your GP or your psychiatrist and you express symptoms, um most likely you're going to get some form of diagnosis or combination of diagnosis, and then there's uh a multiple kind of cascade of medications that they can put you on to deal with the symptoms, but not the root causes.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah, and it's been the root cause. In the spirit of you know, medication, because you said a lot of things that I think are really germane for our listeners, you know. One thing you said uh beautifully is you reclaimed your life. And uh, you know, I think that's there's a lot of things that are very seductive for us in today's world. Uh, you know, in another previous podcast, I I talked about um that you know, we spend most people, the average person spends 40% of their waking lives in the digital world, connected to the internet, not connected to reality and what's in in the present moment. And of course, I know in my life, you know, I've gone through, I went through sexual trauma when I was younger, I did a lot of healing, and you know, prior to reclaiming my life and doing the somatic work that you and I have done together to try to get reconnected to my body, I used alcohol, I used drugs, I used porn. Yeah, I was numbing a lot of things that were going on underneath, you know. And I guess, you know, what I want to ask you is the the story that you've incredibly gone through and all the work that you've done to not be on that drug anymore, you know, how do you think your story relates to you know what men are faced with uh in today's world? Particularly, you know, with this digital quick fix, you know, uh it's instant gratification of dopamine by looking at different things. And I just feel like it's taking us away from our lives, right? So, how do you think your story relates to you know what the modern man is going through?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I I think it I think it relates in so many ways. I mean, I you know, it's it's interesting because I released lithium, um, and it was actually when I was first put on lithium back in you know 1993. So it was 1994, I found myself living in in Vancouver for a little bit, and this psychiatrist who I had to see there again to check the lithium levels, she's like, hey, you know, have you thought about you know using cannabis as well? You know, it might help you a little bit through this process as well. So I started using cannabis as to the psychiatrist's recommendation. Um and and even after I got off lithium, I was still you know using cannabis. Um, you know, I see how cannabis in many ways probably saved my life through that process. Um but then I continued to use it. And it was interesting, it was uh it wasn't until like you know a year and a half ago that I actually released that and really started to look at digitally too the the whole digital detox. You know, I I kind of found myself like you know, when the Twin Towers came down, and we all kind of went through that trauma in the world, especially in North America, of that. Um, you know, I started going down the rabbit hole. And it's interesting, the rabbit hole of like my own experience of being in the psychiatric system, pharmaceuticals, that was what kind of what started it, and then the twin towers going down. So I found myself going down these deep rabbit holes of like um, you know, the world is not all what it seems, and and we do live in kind of I what I call like you know, this this human experience is a challenging experience, and then to to uncover and discover through that digital lead dive of just how much we've been lied to and how much we've been deceived, and and so I I did that for years and years and years, and then and again around the time that I was kind of releasing cannabis, um also releasing alcohol. I wouldn't refer to myself as uh you know an alcoholic. However, I did alcoholism in the family, so I knew something that as as the as the pandemic happened, I was like, wow, I'm having a little bit more alcohol than I'm noticing, and uh and I'm smoking a little bit more cannabis. It's almost like there was more numbing out that was going on through that very challenging ride that we all went through for like those in those number of years.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, it was challenging.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

And so, yeah, and so see you know, so it's interesting now that you know I I I made it, I realized that the digital component, I was like, wow, I've I actually have an addiction that I actually need to look at there, and started to release that, you know, cut out like 95% of what I was consuming. And um, and that was a that was a huge shift. And then and then releasing alcohol, which I'm realizing was a was becoming more of a nomination as well, and then releasing cannabis, which was probably my go-to nomination, and so so I gotta say, you know, as I just turned 54, you know, um uh a few days ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Happy blurry birthday.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I I sit here, you know, in a different stage of life, um, sitting in uh a state of lucidity that I gotta say isn't always comfortable. I'm definitely feeling more. I'm realizing how much, even too, with with the cannabis that was kind of my go-to, how it would reach to that to numb feelings still. And so I'm kind of feeling it all. Um, and I'm I have a lot of appreciation for feeling it all, and and just aware of what I'm consuming. Um, as far as like I don't want to be in the dark as to what's happening in the world. Like they're we're certainly living through what I kind of always refer to as kind of the most transformational time in human history. So it's kind of a really wild time to be alive. And I think and I and I'm just I'm in a practice of working to be as present and as embodied as I as I as I can possibly be to be present for this experience because you know, you know, I've got two young kids who I know uh need their daddy and they need a present daddy to to you know I'm just I think of like what they're coming in with, we're also dealing with digital stuff with them as well, too. Like just how you know when you look at all the people that have designed these products and these programs and how they don't even let their children anywhere near these digital products, and I think that speaks volumes, and so it's um, you know, I think you know, we're both kind of a similar generation, you and I, Michael, and it's just like when I think about the amount of change that we have been through just in our generation, it's it's mind-boggling and what we're being faced with as humans and how we're supposed to be holding all this, um, it's inhumane. Yeah, it's literally inhumane. So, how do we how do we my my whole mantra now is like, how can I keep life as simple as possible and stay present? And it is a not an easy task.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

It's not it's it's not easy, especially um, you know, someone who's gone through what you you've gone through and I've gone through trauma. And I think you know, the acknowledgement that this work that we do to unpack the things that make us who we are in today's world, things that may have happened to me when I was 11 or 17, you know, my nervous system is a certain way and it has me react to the world. And the more that I understand that, the more that I can absorb, and therefore some days are harder than others because it is a lot to take in. When you know more and you see more, it's just more. And you know, that's that's not always easy. And I think, you know, you mentioned you know your wife and your children, and and we hear that a lot. And for you know, our our listeners who are predominantly men, you know, a lot of wives and children say, and you can kind of read this, that you know, they make the comment like he's there, but he's not there, you know, and they're referring to either their father uh or their husband, you know. And so can you talk a little bit about you know the physiological difference, you know, between a man who's uh in his head and you know, a man who is in his body and present in a in a you know in the moment. What's the what's the physiology behind that in terms of how you would describe that, Ross?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Well, I think I think it's the the word that always comes up, and listen, I and I can still be challenged by this, I can still get triggered by things. Even recently I've been I've been triggered in ways that have been like wow, here I am again. That's why I always say like we always talk about right, the journey never ends. It's like there's no finish line. You're like, oh, I'm healed, I'm embodied, you know, it's all good. Um it's it's just it's a constant, you know, you can find yourselves looping. So I mean the thing that comes up when people aren't there, it's like the word is disassociation. And when someone's disassociated, it's like they're there, they're physically present in the room, but they're not really there. And there's like, you know, everyone, um, and I think especially kids can feel this, you know, and and as as an empath too, you know, I can feel this. I know when I walk in the room, like just going through the trauma of life earlier on, um, can create that like high sensitivity to empathy. And I was like that as a child, and so there's there's a blessing to being highly empathic, but I it's it's not a it's certainly not a badge of honor that I would say. Um, you know, like walking into a room and scanning the room, have a group, and knowing exactly like who's got the genuine smile, who's got the fake smile, who's actually nervous, and you know, and literally within seconds, without even wanting to do it, it's just part of the setup now. It's just you go and you scan the room and you know how the whole room is feeling in an instant. And you know, so for me, I always find that the trick is like constantly have to work with like what's mine and what's the outside world, um, what's not mine, because it can be, you know, as uh you know, as walking through life as an empath, and there's there's many on the planet, um, you know, it's it's not always easy to know what's my what's mine and what's what's what's what's the what's the the collective. Yeah um and especially too as the collective is going through such an enormous shift right now and changes, it's um yeah, I that's where that's to me where that's why I like physical exercise. You know, I I I was always a tennis player, but I kind of switched to pickleball, which I love, and it's a very demanding, um, highly physical sport. And uh I find it's things like that that I I I crave and do as a way to be like to keep myself back in my body. If I find myself that I'm getting too too much in my head and I'm disconnected, um, you know, good physical exercise is such an important way to get back in and and get that full kind of a body connection, you know, mind and body. And uh so that's why I always say that's just such a great tool. If you're not if you don't have some form of physical exercise that's challenging you, um then uh I would say find it as quickly as you can.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, and Ross, I think you know, um a relatable story of my own as we you know, as we talk about this, you and I having done a lot of this work, um, you know, my father was a prominent figure, obviously. Early in my life, and uh my dad was 23 when I was born, very young guy, and uh very volatile. He had a lot of anger, and that anger, uh, you know, while he was a good man, he still had anger, he experienced his emotions, and that anger frightened me. And you know, the way that that showed up for me later in my life, um, even as a you know, a 56-year-old, a 57-year-old, um, if there was a circumstance that resembled something like my father, it would trigger me. And uh, and and still does, you know, and and so I use that as an example for our listeners, um, you know, to know that this this is true for all of us in terms of our nervous systems, um, they hold memory, and how we present ourselves in life is a function of that nervous system and the things that have happened to us in the past. So, you know, Ross, what I wanted to ask you is we've we've got listeners and they're on various uh stages of their own paths. What is some work that you know you would recommend for them to get more in tune, you know, with who they are, to be able to embrace the story of their whole life, to be able to reclaim their power, to be able to be present and to actually be in their own lives, um, you know, and to own the power that they truly have. What would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, I think I think I think across the board, um the most important thing that any uh human man, woman can be doing right now is shadow work. And that shadow work is the somatic work that we've talked about, that we've been trained in, that we continuously do. And I think that um, you know, it's interesting. One of the one of the other things that's impacting all humans, all all all beings on Earth right now in a big way, um, is that there's enormous, I think more than ever before recorded history, solar flares that are actually coming and impacting Earth. And what those solar flares are doing is it's actually pushing all the all the stuff, all the stuff that we haven't been looking at, all the stuff that we haven't been facing, for better or worse, whether you like it or not, it is all being pushed to the surface right now. So it's actually an incredible time. Um Chris for the mill. And I think because I'm I'm I'm watching all around, like I just there's there's no human that is exempt from this process right now. And so I guess the the the offer I would say is that you know, if as you're hearing about what the somatic work is, which is really it's a form of like it's a little bit of talk therapy, but you know, what somatic work is, you know, facing one's shadows is like getting into a little bit of the story, but then get into the body and the tissues where you're holding that. And then the where the real healing happens is when you actually start to move those emotions out of the body, like physically express them, whether it's anger, whether it's grief. Um and we both know, Michael, we we've watched ourselves and we've watched our mates that we went through this very intense deep training with together. And when you start to do that work, you start to kind of reclaim oneself, and that's so that when you do get triggered, um, you don't necessarily, I mean, it the triggers are gonna happen. I don't think that this is a never-ending process, but you just become more conscious to them. And and ideally, and what I what I've what I've discovered in my own life, like I still get triggered. Like I'm these last few months, and and life has hit hard, and I find myself these moments where I'm like, oh gosh, I'm back feeling like a an eight, seven, or eight-year-old kid, like in a 54, you know, in a 54-year-old you know, man's body. Yeah. But the the beauty in doing this work that I find is that it you more quickly are able to catch it, grab yourself, and bring yourself back um into that regulated state. And I think that's I think it's important for every human right now to be doing that work. And so it's finding, they're all out there. There's there's there's um somatic experiencing work, there's all there's all different forms of this work with different names. Um, but finding someone that you trust that you can do this work with, whether in individually or a group, group is very powerful, uh, individuals are very powerful. Um, I would almost say like going to your dentist and getting your teeth cleaned, that it would it, if it's a tool that everyone can have that they're actually practicing and working with, um, you just you're gonna be you're gonna be better off because it just allows you to get clearer and more conscious about um what these shadows are and and what the triggers are and how to bring oneself back to a regulated state. Yeah. And that when you start to move that energy out of the body, that's how that happens.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Well, Ross, uh, I really want to thank you for today. Um, and I think for our listeners, um, I will put some notes um, you know, in the podcast transcript to give you some places to go if you want to build on your uh somatic work. Um, Ross's story is a great one for all of us to learn from. Um, you know, his his life story actually really personifies, I think, that uh what we're going through today in this digital world. And um, you know, our work as men, in terms of leaving a legacy, is that uh we're present and we get to show up in our lives, and you know, we we reclaim and claim the power that you know we were born with and be able to get to being fully embodied. So uh I want to thank our listeners. Ross, I want to thank you. Uh it was fantastic to hang out and spend some time with you, and I look forward to seeing you again soon, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Thanks, Michael. Thanks for uh thanks for chat and having me on.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

You got it.