Colin Millar hosts the Weekly Review

Colin Millar is in the host's chair this week and is joined by David Graham, Mo Brown and Haydn Milligan.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hello and welcome to the Windsor Way, a podcast for Linfield fans by Linfield fans. I'm your host for today, Colin Miller, and I'm joined by David Graham, by Mo Brown, and by Hayden Milligan. Now, first of all, probably is worth uh addressing uh Saturday's match, which was the final game of the regulation league season. Um it was another defeat for Infield, um lost 2-1 at home to Cliftonville, and it's probably fair to say this is a not a bit of a miserable way, the end of fairly miserable uh league campaign. Obviously, we still have the European playoff to come, um, we don't know who the opponents and that will be just yet as we record. But uh let's just address this game in particular because Linfield have played Cliffnaval obviously four times in the league this season. The last three meetings, Linfield have scored one goal, they've gotten one point, lost two of those matches. And Cliffnaval are a part-time team, they have a much smaller budget than us. And actually, one of the questions this week from Norman Boyd that we received, and thanks to all honesters, of course, for sending in questions. We've got quite a lot, and we will try to get through as many as we can. But Norman asks, what changes are going to be made to address the large number of unacceptable defeats to part-time teams in the bottom half of the league, and obviously the part-time championship team, which is the Nevada United, in the Irish Cup. We've had quite a few results um like this this season, haven't we? It's it's just not good enough that they're that they're fairly regular.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Well, look, I I have to I'll I'll get my bit out of the way early. I I wasn't in attendance on Saturday, uh, it's the first game I've missed at home in in a good while. Um probably having had a brief watch of the highlights, probably a great frustration is the fact that the goal scorer goal well, times two, um was a player that we put a lot of time and effort into. He then went across to airjury, he then came back. Um word on the street, whether or not word on the street is what you can take as gospel. Uh Liam McTravic wanted to return to Linfield. Um I think from what I'm gatherers well, the manager uh also wanted him to come back, but for whatever reason, I don't know why. Um he is at Cliftonville. Uh that's a frustration, I think. Probably when you look at we're discussing this earlier, the Ulster Footballer of the Year. Um you know, Corey's top goal scorer, uh Korean's best player, probably arguably two of Glenn Torrent's best players this season, all of something in common, and that's the fact that they are former Linfield players. I think that probably in many ways sums up where we're at right now. Um that's a frustration that is not something that us as Linfield fans would be used to in the past.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

I actually I actually was at the game, unfortunately. Um it wasn't good for at all, and that's three home games Linfield finished the season off with three defeats for an accurate score of plus one and minus seven, I believe, so two, two, and a three. Looking back and delving a wee bit more into the history, I'm sure Hayden can follow up for that whenever he joins us. It's actually Linfield's fourth worst run in the history of the club over the period of the last ten league games. You know, and if you think that we've just came off, and I've said this before, 15 years of dominance, that's just not acceptable in any shape or form. Uh truly, truly appalling set of results. And to have your last three home your last three league games at home and get played off the park in all three. Uh young McStavik ran onto the ball for the first goal, good great finish, and then the second one, no back lift, none at all, showed great composure, took it, took a shot off from the edge of the box and put it in the back of the net. And yet again, the only goal we did score was a penalty as well. So we actually that was three games at home and didn't score a goal. Uh, he hadn't actually said it on the last podcast, actually, would we see another goal at Windsor Park? Um, depending on how the cup final goes, we will hopefully have the playoff game at Windsor Park. And if we don't see a goal, then serious questions need asked. And I know Colin, you're going to come on to it. Um, but something I highlighted earlier on in our group was I think the club's actually quite lucky that the AGM is this week, and it is pre uh European playoff because I wouldn't like to be sitting at the top table of that AGM should the playoff game go against us. And we'll have gone from winning the league comfortably last year to getting knocked out of a couple of European competitions, being 11 points behind Glen Torr, 19 points behind the um eventual league champions and fair play to lawn. Obviously, the the best team over the course of the season always wins a league. And we've also then been knocked out of the Irish Cup by lower league opposition, and it's certainly the worst season I can recall as a season ticket holder.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And this this sort of speaks to one of the questions that we've had from Michael Armstrong, who he says, where does responsibility lie after after this poor season? Like who who's ultimately the name for the season? And look, this is that's a question that we could really spend a lot more than a podcast on. But I mean, I think to sum up, it's probably fair to say that there has to be a collective responsibility here. I mean, this isn't just on a on a on a manager or on a decision or on e even even even on a coaching stuff. I think I think this goes wider than that. I think that we've talked about recruitment, we've talked about the players that we've got, but tactics within games, approaches within games, but also as a club, like what what should we be doing better? Because there's four full-time teams in this league, and we're an awful long way from the top three at the minute, so where where does the responsibility lie from that ultimately?

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Well well the que we haven't pre-prepared this, but I'm so therefore I I'm gonna hazard a guess that Mo will probably put the manager further up the pecking order in terms of responsibility than I will. Is that a fair assumption? Mo.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Um yes, yes, yes, David, and and again, you know, what we we've spoken about this an awful lot off offline recently. But the reason I would put the manager ahead further on up that chain is because if the uh committees and leadership group, as I keep calling them, of Linfield Football Club, aren't going to change themselves, well then they're gonna have to get rid of the manager because if they don't want to change and they don't want to make changes at the table, the season hasn't been good enough, and then that's whenever the buck would stop with the manager.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah, yeah, and I think I think look, I totally accept that point of view, and I think what I would say is probably said Jason where because I have seen it and felt it and smelt it and know exactly the you know the good, the bad and the ugly of inside of being inside the tent, that is probably why I have a greater degree of probably empathy and sympathy for the position the manager's in. And I think like what I would say is, you know, if you consider some of the questions um that we have with you know that we've got sort of from from um listeners. You know, one of the things that's come up is uh a question from Neil Armstrong injuries, why does the player always get injured? You know, we rely on rumors, how long he's gonna be available, think it all deserves how to know uh who's he's available. Thelma Adnett then replies with, yes, Neil, it's like the Secret Service. And I think in many ways that that probably for me highlights two of the issues that we have got. So, number one, and it goes back to the fact that we're gonna discuss the AGM, but the potential uh elected directors have have been uh stopped coming on this pod by the Linfield board. So there is a sense and an atmosphere and then a feeling that the environment is more akin to North Korea than it is to Northern Ireland. That then breeds a level of whether it is suspicion, mistrust, distrust, and a lack of connection between the board and the fan base. So that creates a whole you're you're building the house to think of a biblical analogy, you're building the house on sand rather than on a rock. But the injuries are also an interesting one because that links directly to the full-time model. And we are looking and saying, oh, how come we're, you know, Core Rainer pay more than us, Glenn Thorner pay more than us, Lauren pay more than us. That may well be the case. But are they paying more simply into players' back pockets, or are they investing in the infrastructure around the first team that makes the whole environment, the whole experience better? And I think what I would say, and I'd sum up this part, is are the whether it's the manager, director of football, whoever is given authority by the board, or they essentially said, we delegate you the authority to run this whatever way you want, with a really clear budget, and see if you make a balls up of it. And if you don't meet your targets, well, that's win the league, European qualification, X amount of trophies, then do you know what's going to happen here, folks? We're gonna sack you. But the difficulty is with Linfield, the manager, the head of recruitment, the head of academy, the coaching staff, the performance staff, every one of them are going in with one hand tied behind their back because there are people on the Linfield board who want to have a say, an influence, hold on to their power, but therefore they don't actually allow any key experienced professionals, despite what the what Roy McGivern said on the last podcast, allow them to make their decisions. So therefore, that would be in my view why if we're going to make any changes, we should be looking at, in my view, the head of the team. I would abolish the team committee, but we should be looking at the head of the team committee, we should be looking at the head of finance, and we should be looking around saying, We have got it wrong from a football point of view, we've got it wrong from a finance point of view. They are people who, in my view, should fall on their own sword or jump before they're pushed.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

And this is of course AGM week uh for Linfield for the club. Um, this comes around every year, and it comes after the club uh released a set of accounts for the 2025 annual year, and the accounts uh had some good things, had some more concerning things. There was a modest profit that was posted by the club, but there were also rising costs, and this was in a year where obviously Enfield got through multiple rounds in Europe, had multiple paydays, I guess, within Europe, in terms of the big crowds for the shellbone games, relatively limited travel for some of those matches as well. Plus, you have the Boxing Day crowd, you had the other successes of of winning the league and everything else. So, I guess I guess kind of the question that sort of comes from this from the coin side of things, and again, it goes back to a conversation that we've already had on this podcast, but we now know a little bit more that is this going to be sustainable, and if it's not sustainable, what are the next steps going to be? And I think a lot of the questions that we get in that we've been getting in this week are essentially how are we going to compete next year with Colorain? Let's say is probably the prime example in my mind of a club who are spending and spending very, very well, both in terms of players and in terms of what they're doing as a club. Lauren, of course, has just won the league. Glenthorn have been spending money regardless of on field success for the past number of years, too. So what what are Linfield gonna do? I mean, it has to be it has to be smart, right? There's there's no getting away from this. You can't you can't be spending money badly anymore. That's just we're just not gonna get away with it, are we?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Well, what I would say there, Colin, is is very, very simply that if things don't change, and I'm not calling for David Haley to go or be sacked, but there has to be changes made on the playing staff, the coaching staff, the full-time model, and within the running the leadership group of the club and see if things don't change, it's very, very simple. We're not going to compete next year, and I will make that very um bold statement right now. We will comfortably come forth again, essentially, as the weakest of the full-time teams and the best of the rest. You know, Glenn Torn dropped a couple of hundred thousand pounds there in January, um, gambled pretty much unsuccessfully, and we can all have a laugh and a joke at how they have blew Ali Poor's money, which is exactly what they've done. How Coen Main are spending their money um after one season, it's still um out for debate. But the model definitely lawn are coming into almost 10 years now. Kenny Bruce coming on board, he's since left. I think he's dropped about five million pounds worth into the club. David, you would probably know a wee bit more than that, and they have shown how to build from the bottom up. Lemonfield don't need to build from the bottom up, they just need to reallocate their resources, think about their structure, and then we should be able to compete at a reasonable level. But as it stands, we're no fitter, we're no stronger, we're certainly no better on the pitch, and we're slightly better run off the pitch, and that's common from the wee bit of stuff that I do do from the club, and obviously we'll come on to that as well later on.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Um yeah, if if listeners, if if guys, if you can indulge me a few for a few minutes, I've I have taken some notes here and done some uh research so it's not off the cuff. What I'm gonna try to do is break this into kind of two sections, in fact, possibly three, and Colin, you've already kind of alluded on the the the future in a way there. Um we'll look at this year's when I say this year as in 2025's accounts. We can then make some predictions for 2026, and I think then most importantly, decide where we go from there. So I'm not going to start throwing loads of numbers at you guys because uh it'll all become white noise. But you know, essentially, big big turnaround in that we lost 533,000 in 2024. We then have made a a profit of you know 113,000, nearly 114,000. So there's there's a significant swing, and we all know where that swing has come from. That swing has come from uh European money and essentially winning the league. Um, so revenue is is driven by European football income and by player trading. So if you look, we've brought in, I I had said the Roy McGivern 550,000, we brought in 625,000 between compensation and transfer fees. So that is, you know, essentially a very good thing. Um clearly, though, when we look at the wider position, and Colin said this is this is a year in which we have a lot of things that have gone our way. So, you know, yes, we've become profitable, yes, we do have strong cash reserves, but ultimately, you know, we are reliant upon the European income. Bear in mind the European income last year, that was two trips to Dublin, which in terms of cost for travel, no flights, um we had a boxing day, as you may uh made the point, um, we've had a lot of things that have gone our way in 2025. If we then consider in 2026, we don't have Boxing Day this season, or and certainly even since the turn of the the calendar year, our attendances have been as bad as I've ever seen. Um we, as far as I am led to believe, and I keep a keen eye from sort of what my football agents had on, we aren't in a position to make the sort of money we have made in the past in terms of either compensation at 16 or the likes of Cellons or the likes of Rui McConnell. Essentially, unless Fray Hume is transferred to another club, we don't have any significant uh amount of money that's going to fall out of the sky when it comes to the player trading model. Um, if you then add into the fact as well that fuel prices have gone up, which will impact the charter flights, etc. We and I am not to be the bearer of bad news here. If we don't qualify for Europe, and in fact, actually let me go as far as say as even we do qualify for Europe, if things don't change, by this time next year we will have run out of money. That that's how I see it. Now, if anyone wants to tell me in the comments that I'm wrong, if anyone at the AGM on Friday night wants to tell me that I'm wrong, um that's how I view it. So by this time next year, we've run out of money. Unless something very I wouldn't say drastic happens, but Trey Hume goes for 20 million, we get the percentage of it, or I don't know, we buy I don't want to say America, but we have an unbelievable run in Europe from the first round of the conference league and we get into the group stages. Now, how do we then move forward from being in that position? I mean, there's going to be a presentation Friday night. So I suspect that that presentation will say we've had a lot of positive conversations, we've tried to push the model for 49%, but actually we're hitting a brick wall. Now, why are we hitting a brick wall? We're hitting a brick wall because no one's going to invest into a business where there are 17 uh volunteers that sit around a table every other Monday night and make some decisions. So no one's giving any money to that. And and everyone deep down knows that. So there needs to be a full root and branch restructure and reform of the club. Moreover, then there needs to be a situation where we actually have to have an adult conversation to say, is anyone going to give 49% or sorry, give a significant amount of money for 49%? I think that's a tough, tough sale. Which leads me to, and this is where my real, real concern would come. And we all know that the Ranger supporters that listen to us know that basically in 2012 Sir David Murray wanted out, and therefore he sold it to an asset stripper, and that's essentially what Craig White was. Craig White came in, stripped the assets, and basically left the place, uh, ripped any fat and meat left in the carcass, and then the rest is history. Now, for me, and again, if anyone knows more about finances than I do, Windsor Park, we get up to almost£300,000 now because of inflation with the index link rent. So, depending upon how you look at it, you could probably say that you could the IFA would buy us out of the deal for about 10 million. Now, the IFA don't have 10 million, but just bear with me for you know the hypothetical situation. So that then could be leveraged to any sort of further borrowing, or that could be a way that you could essentially get your money back out quick. I would say that Midsley Park is probably at least bad day five million, good day, seven and a half million. Little would bite your hand off at that to leave it as a car park or as an extension, that would be prime uh retail real estate. So if you think about it, if we allow ourselves to be in the verge of bankruptcy, and if no one's gonna invest in us in our current form, and if no one's going to invest in us for 49%, what's basically going to happen is that someone, some vulture is going to see an opportunity and is going to come in and see a historic club with a huge fan base in relative terms, with all you know the bells and whistles of what could be a really great club. And if it goes wrong, see with respect, they can't walk away like Kenny Bruce has done because you can say it's going to be Kenny Bruce, but he bought Inver Park for um you know the club. Um he's obviously got the cliff that is in terms of the academy and terms of their training ground. You know, ultimately, guys, we could sell Midgley Park and we could go and crack a deal with you know Malone College or you know Lagham College and say, uh, can can we train in your 4G pitch at night uh as a part-time side, to bite your hand off for it. So we have to be really careful here that where we are now is a precarious situation because if we continue in the trend where we're going, um there there's no end to you know where it can all end up. And I think at some point as a fan base, I think at some point as a board, as a membership, we're going to have to stand up and have adult conversations and actually say it's not what was done for the last 140 years, it's the legacy we leave for the next 140.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean this this does lead us on to the to the AGM that that that is coming up. And and Hayden, I'll bring you in here because obviously there's a lot of there's a lot of questions that need to be asked, there's a lot of questions that we're getting asked about the club. Never mind, you know, that being directly given to the club itself. And what's what what would be the things that you would want to find out from a fan point of view from those who are seeking re-election, from those who are essentially in charge of what do we what do we still need answers on? What what what what as a fan base do we need to be getting at this point to not just to reassure ourselves on the future of the club, but to give us a sense of direction going into next season and and where we are going?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Um, well, I I think that um I mean there's probably different questions I'd like I'd like to ask really, but don't answer what David was saying. Um we heard from Roy McGiver who said there weren't gonna be wasn't gonna be any money paid out for transfers in the summer. Uh and since we got quite a few people leaving, then that would suggest that our wages on on players would actually go down because we're gonna be using kids rather than seasoned professionals. Um so that would reduce costs there. Uh if we didn't get into Europe, then that would just negate that. It would just balance that out. Um you know the finances is one thing, the 49%. What would a club get? What would an investor get for 49%? Well, it depends who the investor was. If it was another football team, professional football team over in England or Scotland or something, they might get first call on any prospects that we had. That might be something that would attract them. I don't know. Um on the playing side, yeah. I mean, I sat at Windsor on Saturday, and the row that I sit in and the row in front of it, there's probably about, I don't know, 15 sort of loyal fans, shall we say, or regular fans who would go along. I think it was about six of us. And it was just you looked around and you thought, what on earth is going on? I know it's the last game of the season. Surely you can come out for the last game of the season, but different people have got different reasons for not coming out. But just sort of sitting there, I couldn't get any excitement whatsoever about what I saw on the pitch. And going in at 2-1 down, in days of old, you know, the manager would have given the players a bit of a talking to, they would have come out and they would have fought for the shirt, and we probably would have ended up winning 3-2. But there was no sign that that was ever going to happen on Saturday. It was just people just the players just seemed to be turned up because they they were due to turn up. And and so many of the players just didn't, you know, there was nothing about them the way they were playing it. Um Kirk Miller just looked a shadow of himself on on Saturday. Uh and so I'm really worried about the playing side. We've really in previous podcasts touched on uh strength condition strength and conditioning coaches and and and all that sort of stuff. Well, I think um, you know, we maybe have to start at the bottom on the playing side and and and look at it, you know, seriously from that. Find out somebody, get somebody in who has gone through all of this with the club over in England, Scotland, or whatever, and said, Look, this is the way you should be doing it from the ground up. Uh I think that's really gonna be the only way to solve things there, assuming we don't go part-time again.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but um you know that was one of the key reasons why you know I believed, you know, certain people wanted me out of the club because I identified a number of things that you've just said. Um, you know, I know for a fact whenever we carried out surveys with players. And look, you've you've some players who have come from a mixed range of backgrounds, you have people like Matthew Spadrick who came through like GA and the Glenavon in the Linfield, whilst Chris McKee and Kami Palmer at the time have come through Rangers. Um, you know, Robbie McDade have been at Leeds, Jamie McGrew has been at Linfield for 20 odd years. So you're getting a really good kind of balanced range of we're not expecting to be like Real Madrid, but also we're expecting to be better than Murray Rec. And I think that the reality of it is in any business you can identify problems. We can identify problems every Saturday in the touchline to say, why are we doing this? It's obvious we need to change it. But if if a manager doesn't change it or there's not a willingness from people within a business to change, then in reality we are going to continue just to apathetically trundle along and accept mediocrity.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

David, you've hit the nail on the head there for me that Lempfield by many is seen as a members club, a bit like any members' club you'd find in the the rich suburbs of London, a bit like Masonic Halls, Masonic Clubs, stuff like that. Limpfield needs to start really considering itself as a business. And I mean, one uh if I was a member, um, I'm actually going to apply for membership next year, so I'll probably need to watch my P's and Q's over the next couple of weeks and months. But see, if I was a member, I would be asking, and I would I I'd ask you this, David. You do relatively well in life, shall we say? You know, you you're coming off a couple of well-respected jobs, etc. But you're probably not counting the pennies, you're probably counting the twenties at the end of the month. Um, very good. Um, but you're doing well. Have the club approached you about extending any sort of part partnership, sponsorship at all at this time? No. Um okay. No, and and uh so there's there's one, there's one source. You've got a box of Windsor Park, you need your colours to the mast, and the club haven't asked you for any more money. Okay, so there's point number one. Point number two, and I've got these stats here in front of me. There is a company in Belfast with an approximate turnover of 37 to 38.5 million pounds for the 2024-2025 financial year. So round that down to the middle, just shy of 38 million pounds. That profitability sits at approximately 2.8 million pounds in profit. And that company has recently spent 5.5 million pounds in Belfast City Centre. The person at the head of that company is the president of Limpfield Football Club. And the question I would want to ask is, and Jordy Riley, my Lobby neighbor, he brought that up in one of the social posts earlier on. Is the question I have is why have we never seen Lunds, that name, that brand, that family that has been associated with Limfield Football Club for decades now, have that name emblazoned across our first team shirt.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

You know what I'll actually go further here, gentlemen. I'll say I I have heard, and it's interesting, Mullig you make the point about whether it's you know the Masonic or local clubs or whatever, there are small local amateur league football clubs in this very country who have a whether you want to call it a board or a management committee. The only way that you can be on that management committee is if you put your hand in your pocket every month. Now, I don't know, it it it will be, you know, it could be a thousand quid a month as a membership fee, whatever, but you essentially put your money where your mouth is, and therefore you are allowed to make the decisions, yes, for your small investment, if you want to put it that way, and then the wider um you know club commercial, where they've got a bar or whatever the case may be. So, like my view is, and I remember saying this to a Linfield director quite recently, if every Linfield director put a grand a month in, you you're you're getting over 200,000 quid straight away, simply from uh allowing the privileged to sit around a table. And look, some people say, Oh, well, no, I couldn't afford that, but I invest my time, and that's fine. But you you're entirely right, where it's not as if like we're you know going up and down the voucher road with a charity box. We have got people who uh are clearly successful business people in their own field, but for whatever reason that doesn't transfer across to um that doesn't transfer across to Windsor Park.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah. And it's uh AGM for the club. Um obviously it's about re-election of trustees and people who are seeking re-election. And one of the one of the the stories I guess has caused um a little bit of noise this week um is about one one of those individuals who is seeking re-election. And we we'll we'll we'll just address this quickly and and and just try to explain what is going on. So I need to go back to November time um this season when Linfield announced that uh Mooney's Masters Butchers from the Shanko Road had partnered with the club uh for the season, and there was a picture that was shared um by the club of Stephen Mooney, um, of Mooney's Butchers holding a shirt. And now Stephen Mooney is a convicted sex offender. Um and essentially what transpired was this had all come out, and Linfield then said that they had terminated all sponsorship agreements with Munis Butchers, including sponsorship of the Linfield Academy. Um, the club issued an apology. And in that statement of apology from 25th of November, the club statement said, or club director and vice chairman Stephen Dixon has provided a full and unreserved apology for the serious error of judgment, which was not reported to the wider board at the time. It continues, Stephen has been a board member for more than 20 years and has provided significant financial investment to the club along with countless hours of voluntary service, and it concludes with Stephen has advised that he will be stepping down from the board at the end of this season when his current term of office ends. Now we now know that Stephen Dixon will be standing again for re-election, which obviously contradicts the statement that I just read out. There's a lot of fans maybe aren't sure why this has happened, understandably so. Um I think there's a lot of fans who are maybe upset by this as well. Um and obviously to to I don't want to dwell too much on the original issue, which was which was covered extensively at the time, but I I do think that for everything that we can maybe say the club could and should be doing better, I think this is one of the issues that you know I think I think it's a lot more hurtful in terms of in terms of that those mistakes and the sort of reputational damage that they can do, it's significantly more than say results on the pitch or anything of that nature. So I think that's very important to say at the start. But I was wondering if any of you guys could then clear up exactly why then this is happening again. I know Stephen isn't here to to defend himself, but again, we have um communicated to to those who are seeking re-election that they could have appeared on the podcast. The club essentially said that would not happen. But what do we think of this and what can we clear up to anyone who will have doubts about this?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Well, I think one thing to sort of if you if you look at the statement again from Linfield, there are two things that are not connected here. You know, they have apologized for what's happened, they've said that Stephen Dixon has apologised, and they then said he will be stepping down at the end of the season. He hasn't they haven't said he is stepping down because he made that mistake. So the two things to me are not connected, and as I understand it, as I am told, maybe wrong, he was intending to stand down because his wife was seriously ill, as it turned out, terminally ill. Now, the possibility is that he was assuming uh that uh she was going to live longer than she did actually live, and that in fact he was standing down so that he could spend time with her for whatever time was left. Um then he he she died early, and it could well be that he's decided, well, actually, I do like giving my time to Linfield. Um I haven't got my wife to look after any longer, so I'm reversing that decision. Not because not because anything to do with Moonis. I think the Moonies thing is a separate issue, really. But the my question would be to the board or to whoever is involved, say, well, with any sponsorship deal, should that not be put across with the whole board? Because the the interview statement suggests that they didn't know anything about the details of it. Surely any sponsorship should be put across the board so that anyone can turn up and say, Well, hold on a second. I know something about that company or that person, and I don't think it's good, and then they can decide on that. That doesn't appear to have happened in this case.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Hayden, um, let me come in there and without giving too much away, it's actually what I do for the club. Um, I use the tools at my disposal working for an artificial intelligence company to help the club with that very thing, and given that basic initial due diligence. Um so lessons were learned, observations were made. So on the on the aftermath of Mooney, then I can actually confidently say the club's in a much better place than what it was prior. Um, those of us that were at the supporters meeting, I think it was around about November time. Um, David, I know I know you were that but you were at that one too. You know, Stephen fronted up, absolute gentleman, and you know, so whatever the reasons are, that that's fair enough. So lessons have been learned. Where I draw issue with the whole mini tobacco is that in any other business, and we we keep on repeating it, we want our football club to be ran like a business. In any other business, somebody, somewhere, would have fallen under sword. Now, going by the statement that Colin read out, if you do put two and two together and you're coming up with 3.9, you could, and maybe we've made that assumption wrongly, because uh making assumptions is making an ass out of you and me, as everybody knows, um, that Stephen was stepping down because of Mooney's. Now, if we've made that assumption, and that's not the case, is the question I have for the leadership group is uh who did fall under sword over Mooney? So something has to happen. Now, we're comparing apples with oranges here, but there were two young boys in our playing school who made a very stupid mistake about 18 months two years ago. They didn't get the chance to apologize, they messed up and they were shipped off, told to pack their bags and get out. So again, comparing apples and apples and oranges, but people make mistakes, people have to be held accountable, and there has to be consequences. Now, if what we're saying is again, and I read reiterate this, if Stephen is seeking re-election because of the awful news of what's happened to his wife, and none of us, uh I none none of us have been through can possibly imagine what Stephen's been through with the added complexity of Mooney's in there as well. That's fair enough. By all means, by all by all means. But the question has to be asked who did fall in the sword over it, and from what I can see, no one has. And then if you then look, we've got four people seeking election, three being re-elected, which then only leaves one. So what we're now looking at is that going by our own AGM that's going to happen here in a couple of days, we can only make a difference of one person. That's one set of fresh ideas, one set of fresh eyes coming in there to try and make a difference. So again, those numbers for me don't stack up. So even if that person gets in over the head of the other three seeker re-election, what chances that person got sitting in a room with 16 other people around him in his first year to make a a difference? That's why I'm very pessimistic about the next 12 to 18 months of my football club.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

David, could I ask you a question? Um I'm just wondering whether what do you think? Do you think if we had five full-time people, say five full-time people running the club, each very proficient in their own area, could they replace the 17 board members? Yeah, I mean board members?

SPEAKER_03 38:03

I mean, uh absolutely, without naming names, I after leaving Linfield um met with three other clubs. Actually, probably met with more in all honesty, but not not even from the point of view of to you know get a job or anything like that, but kind of more just to have a kind of wider discussion as to we want to go in this direction as a club. How would you see it? The fact you've been at Rangers, you've been at Linfield. Um, here's who we are now, here's who we want to be in five years. Um and I like I I didn't even really get into details kind of putting out a blueprint, but I remember having a conversation with one of the clubs, you could probably work out quite quickly who it was, where they had really just did sort of new ownership and said, Look, right, we're blank canvas, how do we go about this? And I said, Well, for me what I would do is I would look at strengths and weaknesses of what you've got and see whether or not those people can be employed full-time. Now, one of the things I would say is, and it comes back to valuing any business, and if I even look at my own business or I look at um you know, uh anyone who who runs anything like their own business, whether it is uh, you know, just going blind who are a sponsor of ours that Stephen Dixon uh actually uh owned and then sold. Um if you, for example, own a pub, whatever it is, and you say that here is my profitability, if anyone wants to come in and buy said pub, said business, they will say, Well, how much do you take out of the business? Now, actually, a lot of people who are self-employed don't necessarily take a wage, they don't pay themselves a wage, they'll maybe take a dividend, but it does they don't take a weekly or monthly wage. So straight away they'll say, Right, okay, well, if I buy your business and you're not coming with me, I will then have to find a way to replace you, and that will cost me 40, 50, 60, 100, 150 grand. So, so the issue that we've got here, if we value our business to investors, they will turn around and say, right, who's the CEO who makes the decisions? And the club will say, Well, actually, we we don't really have one. We've tried a general manager, try the general secretary, but you know, as soon as they um don't toe the party line, we you know, we want them out. So we need a CEO, right? So a CEO, a really good CEO, in my view, six figures. Then they'll say, Well, who looks after your finances, who's your finance director, your accountant? We'll say, Well, actually, with a guy who's retired, he used to think probably in his 70s or 80s, so say, All right, okay, we're gonna have to replace him. That's gonna be another say 50 to 75, so we're 175.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Sorry, sorry, David, just to put in there, if you're talking C-suite across the board, going by the rates that are going on in central Belfast at the moment, CEO, CCO, CFO are all six figures plus. Yeah, CEO's probably talking maybe closer to the£200,000 mark as opposed to the ones.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, and exactly and and I suppose Mo we would have to say as well, where are we looking in terms of what our turnover is related to our you know, the CFO or the you know, in terms of the chief uh commercial officer, again, who looks after your commercials? Actually, it's a guy who's actually self-employed and he does it out of the goodness of his heart. Tries absolute best, but right, so again, we'll add money into that. That's before you say, What about a director of football? Well, actually, we have a team committee which is kind of like our director of football. So they're like, right, okay, well, there's another hundred grand for that. So before you know what, if you then have a CEO, a a commercial um director, a finance director, a director of football, and then probably in all honesty, what the um what the sort of the the football secretary role, so what a lot of like the Germans would talk about the football secretary who is essentially either part legal, part admin, looks after the licensing, looks after the contracts, looks after the transfers. So for me, Hayden, to answer your question, five people could easily and comfortably do the job of the 17. Where the issue arises, Hayden, is whether we are prepared to try to go to get five really good people that will cost anywhere between a quarter and a half a million pounds per year, and how we can justify that in running the club, or we try to do some sort of almost purgatory where we're neither in heaven nor hell. And if we're honest, we're in purgatory at the minute if uh if you believe in such a place, and we're probably moving closer to you know the warm fiery pit than uh the land of milk and honey, if we're honest. And sorry, one other thing I'd like to say just to pick up on the Muni point, I think it's really important. I think Hayden, you've picked it up exactly right. I think that for me, Stephen was an easy fall guy. I think that you know, as far as I can believe, you know, I'm aware, there was a photograph taken. I believe there's a photograph with Paul White in it that for whatever reason didn't really make the same public splash as the one with Stephen Dixon. I mean, when photographs or any sort of content is taken in the club, there needs to be um certainly in my day, the media director, Jonathan Lamont, wanted to know everything about it. So, as far as I'm concerned, if Stephen Dixon was culpable for any sort of crime, then why was Paul White and why was Jonathan Lamont not brought into the same position? So for me, this isn't about any of the three individuals personally that I've mentioned. It's about the structure of the club. And I think, Mo, I'm certainly heartened to hear that we are trying to in some way professionalise matters, but I think it was a hard, hard lesson, which you know we definitely I think have learned. I think there's been a positive response with the club, but it can't just be about one individual and it can't all be pinned in Stephen Dixon. And if I'm honest, I read that statement, and whoever wrote it had cutely and smartly. And somewhat in a you know nefarious manner written it that we're kind of throwing Steven under the bus here, but you know, we're not really. Um and I just thought it wasn't um a particularly nice way to handle someone who has served the club who discount blinds as long as I can remember supporting Linfield was uh a support was sponsor of uh of Linfield, as you say, has clearly put more money into the club than others who have much bigger companies with much higher turnovers. So I think we have to look at everything in the round rather than just at simply one individual.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I think as well, it is worth stating that everyone who is up for for election or or for re-election, I mean that that does go to the members' vote. And one thing I would say about the the structure of the club is you know, I think I think we are there there's no perfect structure for any football club, but if the members still have a controlling say in what happens, that's very, very important. I think there's other Irish League clubs who maybe who maybe have some sense of regret that they don't have quite the same level of of control.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Um can can can can I can I just come in there? David mentioned them, and I think we could comparably say because he's not up for re-election last year, and it ties into why I was so keen for these four guys to come on the podcast. That if you look at what Paul White done this time last year, he had got in about the stance, he had got he ran a really good campaign. He took the LinkedIn, he took the Facebook, he took the social media, introduced himself, spoke about his love for Linfield, spoke about what he would like to do should he be elected onto the board at Limfield Football Club, uh, which you then fast forward a year, and the Windsor Way is then a vehicle or a vessel for these other four guys to do it, and that was then pooled. So you're now left with in 2026, and this is ludicrous individuals being given five minutes, five minutes to get their point of view across about what they want to bring to the table for the next three years. Three full years, and the club can look a hell of a lot different between now and then, you know. And if you look, I don't even know what we're running at there at the moment. We haven't even scratched the surface of what could be done at the board and at the various committees Olympic football club. So how these guys are meant to do that in five minutes, like I said, is ludicrous, and that should change. Now I am not saying it should be done through the Windsor Way publicly, and that's probably why the board of directors shut it down. But there needs to be more from the people seeking election, and maybe you know, that's maybe something that can maybe land with Paul by going in, going in next year and whoever, because it's not going to change for this weekend, clearly, clearly not. But uh the members need to be given more information, more data, and more just more in general from the people seeking re-election or election to run the club. If we look, you know, and we've got one person looking for election for the first time. Who here knows anything about them? And I'm shaking, certainly shaking my head here. So again, we can talk about you know the three seeking re-election because we've seen them around a club for decades and decades and decades, you know, and like David said, you know, Stephen Dixon has put a lot of money into the club percentage-wise compared to uh somebody else that I have already mentioned on this particular show, you know, and it's it's not good enough. It's it's it's not good enough to give people five minutes for three years worth of vision. If you look at even bringing somebody into a part-time job in a small business, their job interview is half an hour, 40 minutes, and then they need to go through a six-month probation. Again, there's no probation with these guys as well. They get five minutes, they get elected at the end of the night, and then they're savus houses for three years. 2026, scandalous.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Well, look, the final thing I'm going to say in this matter. Um I've already said that if anyone is to stand up on a stage on Friday night and say anything in contrary to we will be run out of money this time next year, unless something un unless it falls out of the sky, then that they're essentially lying to us. So we we are we're going to be burning through our caste reserves. So therefore, for me, the only way that this can change is if the members of the club at this stage, not guys like me and Mo on the Windsor Way talking and essentially being supporters, talking about how we would change it. It's actually about members coming together and saying, right, we want an EGM. This EGM has discussed the future direction of the club in terms of the governance structure, in terms of, you know, if even this idea, because one of the things that I'll be mentioning Friday night will be around, well, one option is to go back to part-time. Well, we have delegated the authority or the membership of delegated authority to 17. Well, I wouldn't even say 17, they've delegated the nine, because the other eight, you know, again elect themselves because they've got their own way kind of fifting going on there. But ultimately, we delegate authority as a membership to people to decide the future delegated uh directional club. So, for example, the board signed off the five-year plan, as far as I understand it. I don't think it had to be a membership sign-off because you would maybe find it difficult to get that in a number of hundreds of people in the room. But the board signed the five-year plan. And do the board decide if we go to back to part-time? Do the board decid and if that's the case, that's that's taking us in a whole different uh direction. So for me, it's not up to me, it's not up to Mo, it's not up to a lot of listeners. If you go to the AGM at Friday night, don't ask and complain about how crap the burgers are, how expensive the pints are, don't even complain about the state of the pitch. Ask why we are now the fourth best side in uh in, I was gonna say Belfast. Hopefully we're not at that stage yet, but the fourth best side in no in Northern Ireland, and how are we going to change that? And unless we have changed from within, it isn't gonna happen in the pitch. So over to you, members. Our work is done, at least for now.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, and I think that's uh quite quite quite a good uh way of finishing up um today's podcast. There's a lot of ground covered there, as always, um, with an AGM coming up, obviously, with the season drawing to a conclusion too. Um, thank you very much um to everyone for sending in questions. We didn't get time to get through them all, of course, but we really do appreciate them. So keep them coming in, and we'll try to get through as many topics as we can in the podcasts that we have coming up. And for today, thanks to David, thanks to Mo, and thanks to Hayden, and thank you to you for listening as well. We'll be back with another podcast soon ahead of Linfield's European playoff. Whoever that's going to be against, we don't know yet, but we will catch you then. Thank you very much for listening.