The Windsor Way
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The Windsor Way
Gary Peebles: Interview Special
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TWW host Jason Burke is joined by former Linfield midfielder and cult hero Gary Peebles for this Interview Special episode.
This is Jason Burke for the Windsor Way podcast with an interview special. I've been speaking to formerly in three midfielder cult hero Gary Peebles. This was recorded just before Scotland took to the field in Miami against Brazil in the beginning by asking Gary about Scotland's performances at the 2026 World Cup so far.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've got a few games, Jason. Scotland probably slightly disappointing. I mean, the the result against Haiti was the most important thing, but I don't think they really performed that well in the first half. We came out in the second half and it was certainly a much improved performance. Against Morocco probably went slightly defensive, changing formation, lost a goal right early. You know, I mean, you know, when you look back on it, you think players with that level of experience, it was almost like kind of schoolboy error to try and step out and play offside and and lose a goal so early in the game. But I think after a period we kind of got to grips with it, and then second half again, it was a uh a decent performance with it being to be honest, probably up front is uh you know, maybe we're what we're area that we we struggle most. We don't really create a lot of chances, and when we do, we really need to you know put the ball in the net. So yeah, difficult result against Morocco, really difficult game tonight. Um, let everybody in the nation, fingers, toes, legs, everything's crossed for uh for a point at least to get us through. We can break that kind of uh voodoo of uh you know never qualifying past the group stages. But yeah, looking forward to the game, great atmosphere. Wish I was there. Went to the Euros a couple of years ago. Absolutely, you know, it's it's it's it's phenomenal. And you can see with the the pictures from Boston and Miami that you know following your country to uh major finals is just particularly when you're a big massive football fan, is just seconding on. So yeah, be cheering the boys on tonight. Hopefully you get a result.
SPEAKER_00And the Tartan Army's been doing you pride, haven't they? Tartan Army would say.
SPEAKER_01Oh well, I think uh I think if we were I think it was a boxing match we'd have you knocked out, to be honest, you know.
SPEAKER_00Is it true? I I heard something this morning that the Boston and Glasgow have they done some sort of twinned official twin city because of the response to the Scotland fans there in Boston, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Look, I think you know, you said they're about Northern Ireland fans. I think Northern Ireland fans, Scotland fans, probably Wales, Welsh fans, probably similar, you know, are you know really, really proud of our country. We're no big countries, you know, we punch above our weighted times, and when we get the opportunity to go, I mean I watched you as guys in the Euros, you know, and in France, and and your support was absolutely phenomenal as well. And you're traveling, you know, big numbers. So it's it's fantastic, you know. It's it's it it's almost like a way of life for some supporters. You know, they follow their team and then they get an opportunity to follow their club to their country, then uh it's it's it's a magnificent experience.
SPEAKER_00I just want to start with a few quick fire questions, then Gary, just to uh give us a few bits and pieces to talk about. I suppose your your your first football in memory, not necessarily you playing football, but your first memory of football full stop.
SPEAKER_01Well, funnily enough, it's probably this I was born in 1967, so 1974 World Cup, Scotland played in Germany, and I remember could I remember it as if it was you know a couple of years ago, a wee boy, my dad was a footballer, um so I was football daft. I mean, I used to go to my bed with my football strip, my ball would you know lie beside me. Um, you know, massive football fan. And obviously then, you know, all the Scotland games were on telly, there was a big hype. Um, we hadn't been to a World Cup for a number of years, so yeah, probably Germany 74.
SPEAKER_00My my first football in memory involves you actually in a roundabout way, because I was thinking about this today, and I and I was thinking my first football in memory of watching a game actually was the 94 World Cup final when Baggio puts it over the bar. But I was thinking that's not my first football in memory. My first football in memory is my dad going to Copenhagen to watch the blues, um in the in the the in the game that you were about to get uh to get on to. Um, but what about the favourite goal that you you scored? Your most favourite goal?
SPEAKER_01Favourite goal that I scored, yeah. Um that's a good question. I mean, I was fortunate that I scored a fair amount of goals. I mean, I was lucky, particularly in the in the year that we'll probably talk about, Jason, you know, that that kind of final 10 days of the season, you know, I was fortunate enough to score the winning goal against Colrain in the League Cup final, and you know, one man of the match, and then I was fortunate enough to score the winning goal in the Irish Cup final and one man in the match. So probably you know, scoring goals, well you know, maybe to the eye, they were only the most um spectacular of goals, but just the occasion that period and my football career um was just special. So yeah, probably you know, Irish Cup final to win the treble, score ahead of a corner, I don't know, 10, 15, 20,000 blue men there. Aye, great, great, um, great memories.
SPEAKER_00What about your worst football in memory?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, you touched on it there. Copenhagen, I mean, you know, the night the night at Windsor, we beat Copenhagen 3-0 and you know, anybody who was at the game or watched the game, you know, was probably as good a performance as Linfield's put in on in Europe and probably their their whole history, and a thoroughly deserved performance. But probably slightly naively we went to Copenhagen thinking that we would go and you know do something similar, and you know, we get caught in the backfoot and we were 2-0 down within about 25-30 minutes, and then it was pretty much defending for our life to try and hold on. Uh, and you know, the rest is history. And you know, the whole talk about you know, there wasn't an injury in the second half, the referee played six minutes, it probably turns out to be about three and a half, four minutes. They score literally the last kick of the ball. We're a part-time team, and you know, we we basically had the legs gone, you know, they knocked the stuffing at us, but and then to find out you know that they draw AC Milan in the next round, and you think AC Milan comes to Windsor at that time with Van Baston, Rikard, Hullett, uh, Manchelotti, Maldini, Barese. I mean, it's just it's stuff of dreams. So that's by by and far um the most disappointing uh game in my football career.
SPEAKER_00So I want to take you back a few steps then, if I may, to your your early days. You're obviously playing for your your boyhood club at St. Mirin, and they they win the Scottish Cup in 1987, which was a great year for football because it was also the year that I was born, Gary. Um but you decided to move on to Partick Thistle, um, and you're probably about 20 years of age. But I'm wondering what was your football and aspirations really at that time? You're playing for St. Mirin, you're playing for Partick Thistle, these are the full-time prospects maybe ahead of you. But what were what were your aspirations in the game at that point?
SPEAKER_01I mean, to be honest, I think you know, we're gonna go back to an era, Jason, where you know the technology was you know basically all you had, and and where I was brought up, you know, you know, what we would call a scheme, basically there wasn't much to do, but go to that piece of grass and you know, put down the jumpers, his goalposts, and kick the bob out with 20 year pals. And you know, as I say, my dad was uh my dad was a very well-known junior player. Um so football was in my blood. Football, you know, you come home from school, all you wanted to do was play football. So like any any other young boy from my scheme in my town, you know, the aspiration was to be uh you know a professional footballer, and I was fortunate enough that when I played at kind of juvenile level, uh boys' club level, I scored a barrel load of goals. I was big for my age, I was fairly quick, uh, had an eye for goal, and I get scouted and picked up. I had several trials at various clubs, but I was a six-month supporter. I then my house was probably about three miles, four miles away from the stadium. I could jump in the bus, I was training there, I get the opportunity to sign, and I didn't think twice and I signed. I could have signed full-time at Dundee, I could have gone to Motherwell, I had trials at Rangers, um, but I was a Sitmont supporter and I signed for Sitmont. And my aspiration then, and again, it's it's like probably most footballers, if you knew then what you know now, you would have probably dings differently. You know, you you sometimes think at that age when you sign, that's you made it. You don't realise, you know, that the hard work and the dedication. And not that I wasn't a hard worker or I wasn't dedicated. I probably you know, I like to socialise, I like to go out. I probably, you know, didn't he focus enough at that time maybe on a football career. I was part-time, I was serving my apprenticeship, and I didn't play again. He asked about you know some regrets. I didn't play as many games for St. Murray as I would have liked. I could argue that probably I deserved to play more, but in the days we had, I mean, we had unbelievable players in the in the first team, you know, trying to get into the reserve team was hard enough, never meant into the first team. So it probably wasn't until I went to Partick Thistle, where I was playing week in, week out, that you know, when I'd turned full time, I'd went full time at St. Murray for a couple of years, and then I realised that you know I need to maybe change my lifestyle a wee bit and get my head down and work hard. And then again, when I, you know, when I moved over to Northern Ireland, it was probably the period I played my my best football. It's obviously where I was most successful. I'd a you know it was fairly high profile given that we flew in, flew out. You know, playing for Linfield is as you know, is you know the biggest club in the country, so the spotlight was on you, and the expectation was so much higher. So, yeah, my aspirations were always to be a footballer, and I was fortunate that I had what 15-16 years and 11 of them were full-time. So, and I won, particularly in Northern Ireland, I won a lot of trophies, um, played in Europe, scored a few goals. So, I I when I look back my career, I don't tend to look back, you tend to just, you know, that you can't you almost kind of part that as a part of your life and you move into the next stage of your life when you're working and you're in a career, and if you meet up with ex-pros or people like yourself get in touch, you know, I I love chatting about football. Um, it gives you a chance to reminisce and think back to the good old days. Um, so yeah, that's probably where we're at. But to be a footballer was always a dream, and I was fortunate enough to you know live that.
SPEAKER_00So, fast forward a couple of years then, sort of 92, 93, you you make the move across then to Northern Ireland and you're you're playing for Port of Down, only for a short time before Linfield get in touch. But I'm wondering what was the first approach that was made to you? Who did you hear from at Linfield, first of all? How did that all happen?
SPEAKER_01Well, it was it was interesting. Um you're right, I was playing at Port of Down and thoroughly enjoyed it. I kind of knew probably at the time I went to Port of Down that I would be moving on from Partick Thistle. So I'd pretty much an open mind as to you know what what the future may look like. Did I think I would move end up in Northern Ireland? Absolutely not. I came out of the blue to go to Porta Down, thoroughly enjoyed that. They were a good side, as you know, back then, some quality players. You know, Linfield pipped us to the the league that season. Um and I think just while I was there, I'd obviously played well in several games, scored a couple of goals, and I'd clearly impressed uh a scout called Jim Emery, who's probably a legend, not just at Linfield, but across Northern Ireland, you know, a character, a lovely guy. Um week in a backstory, Jason, is I I had got a phone call from uh a chap, David Hodgkinson, who played with Liverpool back in the 80s. I got a phone call from him out of the blue one night to say that he'd spoke to Tony Higgin, who Tony Higgins, who was uh head of RPFA, to say that I was a good player. Um this was kind of probably the start of the kind of agency thing. Um and he th he he he felt that he could help me get a club if I was interested. As I say, I had a kind of open mind. Um he said, well, I can get you to I can get you sweet, I can get you to Sweden, you know, right away. Again, naively I'd booked a summer holiday with my my wife and friends, and I was like kind of oh, I'm gone on holiday in two weeks, you know. And he said, that's fine. He said, look, uh give me a call when you come back for holiday. Um I can definitely, you know, I've heard a lot of good things about you. He said, I can definitely get you a move. Uh he says, I'm no con no worries about that. So that was that. And then probably within the next day or two, I got a phone call from Jim Emery to say that um he'd watched scouted me several games, really impressed and would have been interested in coming to Linfield. And again, you know, with all due respect, obviously I knew Linfield, I knew they played at Windsor Park, they'd obviously just won the league, I knew they'd qualify for the European Cup. But I went there with a totally open mind because I thoroughly enjoyed my myself at Port of Down, and Ronnie McFall had been having gentle conversations about you know, I want to keep you. So I went over on the plane, uh, I met, I got picked up at the airport, I get taken up to then what was the uh the Conway 40 Crest of Tellendon Murray.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And I met with uh Trevor Anderson, we had a bit of lunch, we had a chat about football, about life, and went to Windsor and you know, obviously being at Port of Down and nice enough stadium as it is, but you go into Windsor, you realise it's you know the national stadium at the time, or still is, and and we had a chat. Trevor spoke about his plans, you know, he was looking to uh sign Gary Halo, you know, who I'd never heard of at the time, but he was you know scoring lots of goals down south. Um said where he wanted me to play, what he was looking for, blah blah blah blah blah, and offered me a two-year contract, and you know the terms were uh favourable, and I went home, spoke to my wife, and I thought, look, two years full-time, we're in Europe, fly in, stay in the the you know, 40 crest and then Murray, and you fly home after games or the following day, and I thought, aye, let's go for it, you know. You know, European football, you know. I'm at that time I'm what, 26? The chances of me playing European football in Scotland would have been you know uh limited. So I signed, and you know, we can talk more about the the the two seasons, but yeah, that was that's how it came about. Um pretty much I'd done enough at Porta Down to have Jim Emery, you know, uh Keen to sign me and you know he shared that with Trevor. And thankfully, at that point in the last game of the season, we beat Linfield 3-1 and I scored a really good goal, and that probably just sealed the deal.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting that we're bringing you in on a full-time basis. Did you get a sense from them that the whole club was trying to go full-time at that point, or was it just a handful of players that were you know well documented?
SPEAKER_01Well, here's me here's my theory on it, right? Because I think you you'll probably know that you had life supported down with you know flying in Stevie Cowan and several Scottish players, and they were obviously spending a wee bit of money. Um and Linfield, as you know, were predominantly part-time, we you know, the best of the best players for the kind of North Island. Um and I don't know if Linfield then went for us to go to the next level. We night, you know, in terms of the quality, obviously Desig Gorman had come up and had made a real impact. Um, Asign, Gary Halock signed, who'd come with a big reputation for down south, uh Raymond Campbell, who was probably Glenn Torin's best player, they paid a lot of money to get Supi. Um, you know, Al IT Supi, you had your Wesley Mont, John Easton, you know, Alan Dornan, Noel Bailey, Stephen Beattie, you know, you had some real quality players in the club. And I think Trevor and the the the board probably just felt right, you know, for us to at that time Linfield I think Porter Down had won two leagues and then Glenn Torn might have won a league. So Linfield had then won the league, and there was maybe a you know to take it to the next level, they thought they'd bring in more quality. So there was never any discussion about going full time. With hindsight, I should have probably moved over and and lived there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but at the time, as you know, that there was the ongoing troubles, and not that I was never ever affected and never seen anything in the time that I was there, so it didn't impact me in any shape or form. But probably with hindsight, if you'd been over and trained and then it might have escalated to maybe full-time. But I think a lot of the guys in the team had you know good careers and you know, legal you know, people are they'd good careers, so they were never going to go full-time, but it it probably did have its challenges, certainly in the early days when you know I'm turning up my salad and playing 90 minutes and then I'm disappearing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you're not getting the benefit of training with the boys then during the week as well. One thing that you did have the benefit of was Big Gary Eccles as your chauffeur, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Well, do you know? I mean, I can't speak highly enough of Gary, he was he was absolutely brilliant. You know, what I mean, you know, he has a Linfield legend and he's he's just a a a wonderful guy. Brilliant with me, he picked me up, he dropped me off, he he used to come and get me, we'd go for lunch, he would take me, you know, up to his house, we'd have a bite. He you know, he did, he almost lifted and led me, we became really, really good pals, and we still keep in touch. Um and any time I go over um to Windsor, he's the first guy I go down and see, you know, and and always sit and have a good blather with him. Um what a time for Gary. Um I he was uh he was he was the one person at that time. Him and probably Lindsay McEwen um were the two people that I probably spent the most time with.
SPEAKER_00Your your first official game then, you probably played one or two friendlies, but your first official game then would have been the infamous tie against Tbilisi, which I understand would almost make a podcast in its own right. But can you just talk us through how the team got to Tbilisi and and and what went on out there?
SPEAKER_01Well, do you know? I mean, you're asking these questions and some of the stories. I mean, that was you're right. We drew a tiny dynamo Tbilisi, and it's it's a it's one of the ones where you're asking people where's that? You find out it's in Georgia, and you're like, Well, where's Georgia? You find out that they're you know just been separated for the you know for Russia and they're becoming an independent country. Um you realise that you know British clubs hadn't played in Europe for a number of years, and we were going to be the first kind of British club to uh go over to that neck of the woods to play. It turns out that we the only way we could get there is via Georgian Airlines, so we had to charter you know Georgian Airlines. We flew from Dublin, we shared a plane with Shelburne, who were playing in Livov in the Ukraine. We got on the flight and I mean there was no safety demonstration, there was no catering. The plane probably was built. I'm gonna I'm gonna guess it was maybe in the 60s. Um we we just about to land in Louvre and I'm sure it's in Louvre and we get uh bus tire, a fire, you know, tire blows. So the next minute there's loads of fire engines, etc. etc. We land here, Shelburne got off, and they wouldn't let us leave until we paid, I think it was 50,000 US dollars to refuel the plane. So the the obviously directors had to do a bit of kind of uh bank transfer, kind of wiring money to whoever had to do that. We then leave uh Ukraine and we fly to Tbilisi and we land in Tbilisi, and we probably have just found out that Tbilisi are in the middle of a civil war, and I think two weeks or three weeks prior to us getting. A US diplomat had been killed, and we were met as we landed with the kind of Georgian army, and we were kind of safely. And again, credit that you know, I'm not going to make up any stories. We weren't under any you know embargo in any shape or form. You know, we they they welcomed us, you know, we went through security, they escorted us to the hotel. And I can only describe, and I've told this story a few times, that if you can remember the film Shindler Schindler's List, where it was a kind of dark grey buildings and you know, deepest, darkest Czechoslovakia, it felt a bit like that. And then you can almost go round a corner, and here was this beautiful um hotel with lifts outside, you know, beautiful big swimming pool, beautiful rooms, beautiful reception area. Um, so yeah, and we we we we stayed in that hotel, we trained at the stadium. Stadium was a big old-fashioned, it was a big kind of circular oval type stadium, probably really run down. Um, we go out, we we arrived for the game, and they're all banging the window, and I think they were shouting Liverpool for some reason. Um, and it was it was it was a great great atmosphere, it wasn't it feel intimidating, certainly not to me. And we were out to the stadium and 65,000 Georgians going absolutely tonto. And we play the game, and and I'm I'll say this and I'm no ashamed to say it, probably the biggest 2-1 doing I've ever had in my life. Um, the absolutely battered is Wes Lamont had the game of his life. I mean, he he could he could dine out in that performance for the rest of his career, it was that good. And and and Wes was a great guy, he had a lot of time for Wes. I got to know him really well. What a performance he put on that night. And we we stole a 2-1, and we come home, and we're we're fairly, you know, we're at Windsor, we're you know, they're travelling, it's all new to them, and it transpired, Jason, that they stayed in they stayed in the the Forty Crest Hotel. And again, this is a true story. So we used to go out for breakfast, and uh I went out for breakfast and they had ate absolutely everything. There was nothing left. All the fruit was away, all the croissants, all the all the condiments, everything was away. They ate everything, it was unbelievable. Um, we played the game, and I think we we we played really well. We were unfortunate, we scored a good goal. Uh they scored, we drew one each, and you thought, well, you know, that was an adventure, thoroughly enjoyed that. You know, let's get down to business with the league and you know, try and get it back into Europe next year. And then I went home. Uh I think we played on the Tuesday night, and I went home the Wednesday, and I think it was the Thursday. Gary Eccles phoned me to say that um we're back in Europe to Blissy or bribed a referee with like 5,000 US dollars and two sheepskin coats or something like that. Ridiculous. And we drew FC Copenhagen in the next round, and it was happy days, and then it was all you know, all systems go, and uh the Copenhagen story, you know, started to take shape.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you you played both you played in both of those games in that tie. I mean, the the first leg at Windsor Park, the 3-nil victory over Copenhagen, it goes down to what uh as one of Lindford's best ever nights in Europe, and you you you were part of that. Um But obviously then we we go away um and we lose we lose four-nil. You've already mentioned it at the at the beginning of the podcast. That's one of your your worst footballing memories, but do you do do you still sort of look back on that and just wonder what if? I mean you've already mentioned their IC Millet and the players that they had in that time, and that's potentially what we would have faced had we have got through through that round. But is there any regret from that tie? Do you know could could we have set up differently? Was there anything that we could have done uh to get through that tie?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, I think you know, again, hindsight's a great thing. I think you know, with the euphoria the euphoria of uh beating Copenhagen 3-0 potentially could have been more just a really, really, really good performance uh on the night. And we went to Copenhagen and it's not a criticism, uh Trevor or Lindsay or you know, whoever. I think we went out to just go and play rather than going, you know, as they say now, the low block, sit, sit deep, you know, don't you know, don't break lines, just keep compact, um, you know, play one up front, that kind of thing. It could have been a long 90 minutes, but as I say, we we went a wee bit expansive and open and playing our game, and we lost two goals, um, two probably cheap goals. When you look back, we could have maybe prevented it. And then it became a kind of backs to the wall. And then, you know, it was it a fill, was it not? You know, I don't think the boy who hit it could have actually walked up and placed it any any more in between the kind of you know, the goalpost and the the bar, yeah, basically almost like a posting stamp. And then is he celebrating the referee blue for time? And you know, you see the pictures on the sideline where Lindsay's at the referee and Trevor, you know, at their watch as if they say, you know, blow the whistle. And then you had I think you'd have 800 blue men there who had fought out a lot of money, and you know the you you know the euphoria's gone up and down because you think you're going to qualify, and I think we probably at the end of the day felt that we we let them do and let ourselves doing, and could we have done something different? But like hindsight's a great thing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00And we know just from recent sort of Linfield defeats in Europe, you know, at least with RFS of Latvia, how that can maybe impact on a league season. But to be able to pick yourselves up and go on and win four trophies really that season was was remarkable, and and again you were very much part of that right up until the last day of the season, which was you know, again, one of the most memorable days in Irish League history, and again, you're front and centre. What's your memories of that league winning day at Windsor Park in particular?
SPEAKER_01Well, as you say, I mean you probably go back a wee bit, you know, if I think in my own sort of journey, uh when I when I when I signed and we played a few games, I I kind of hit the ground running and I was flying, and I was getting a lot of good press, you know, things were and then we had a wee sticky spell round about maybe October. Uh I remember going down to Glenavon, we lost 3-2, and I started to get a wee bit of grief for the punters, and I wasn't playing well. And then we played Glen Torin, I think it was a quarter final of the want to say the Budweiser or the League Cup, I don't know. One of the one of the competitions anyway. And I scored an 89th minute equaliser, and I ran pretty much the length of the the ground, and that was the old, you know, the famous Jersey over the head night. And from then, from that night, I might be wrong, but I don't think I am. I think we went on a 33-game unbeaten run. Yeah, and the season just confidence grew. Players were flying, you know, we were winning, we were going into games, really, really confident we were going to get results. Um, going across the country, you know, you'd a real good port of down side, you'd a real good Glen Torin side, you know, you'd a real good Crusader side at the time were coming through with Roy Walker and you know the the God Squad, as they called them. Um so it was a great time to be in the Irish League, and we just kept winning and we were picking up points, you know, against work kind of main rivals, and then as you say, the build up to the end of the season. Porter down Porta Down could have gone to I think they could have gone to Ballamina, and if they won, they almost guaranteed they'd win the Irish League and they didn't. We then go to uh Shamrock Park and we we win comfortably 2-0. That brings us back in the mix. We are then the team if they beat us, they've they've won the league more or less. We beat them. We then have to go to Newry. We beat Newry, we've more or less won the the Irish league. Newry probably a bit like anybody going to play your Ranger Celtic, they really raise their game. Um great crowd done again, and we got a one-each draw, and we think, oh, here we go. And the scenario is Porter Down win, they win the league, Glennaven win, they win the league. We need them to draw, and we need to beat Glenn Torin. And you know, Windsor was absolutely rammed that day, and I had no doubt we were going to beat Glenn Torin. We were just a better we were just a better team, and we knew what was at stake. We knew we had to do our job, and we did our job um professionally, and then it was the you know, when you see, you know, you watch the highlights back of that, it's it's I mean drama to the highest to the highest degree, and you know, Glennavan 2-0 up, uh Baxter, uh no Baxter, um what's the striker's name? Steven Glenn.
SPEAKER_00I can't mind it, I can't mind his name.
SPEAKER_01Uh the the striker anyway, he's through one and one with Mickey Keenan puts it by the way.
SPEAKER_00Stevie Kyan was it, was it Kyon?
SPEAKER_01Oh the Glennavan striker.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Glennavan striker. Stevie McBride, who came to Linfield then eventually.
SPEAKER_01That's right. So he he was through one and one to make it 3-0 and missed, and then Porter Down got up the park. I think Sandy Fraser scores, Trevor Smith equalises, and then the famous Robert Casey, Casey must score to win the Irish League. And you've got Trevor Smith, who he always has to do is pass it sideways for him to tap in. He goes by the post, and we're all walking about uh the park at Windsor, and then next man it just erupted, and it was just carnage, it was just what a feeling, you know. And that, as you say, it'll go down, you know, it's probably one of the greatest finishes to an Irish league uh league campaign in the history of the Irish League, and it was just uh phenomenal, and that set us up nicely for what was to come the following week. You know, we'd won the League Cup on the Tuesday and then won the league on the Saturday, and we'd a full week to prepare for the Irish Cup final.
SPEAKER_00The the following season then didn't necessarily hit the same heights, but still a couple of medals in the bag for yourself. But at the end of that year, then you find yourself uh bombed out. Um how do you look back on that?
SPEAKER_01To be honest, I still look back on that with a sense of um frustration and slight anger, if I'm being honest, because that season I scored 16 goals for midfield. I had I had played through the kind of pain barrier for the manager because he he felt he needed me in the team. I accepted my performances were nearly as good as they were the previous season, and and not not consistently, but I could have played better, but I was carrying an injury. So in short, what happened, Jason, was I would play on a Saturday and on a Sunday I could hardly walk because my Achilles tendinitis, and it took me to a Monday-Tuesday before I could do anything, and then I would either be over on a Tuesday night for a game, so I wouldn't I wouldn't do anything right through straight in a Tuesday, play a game. And I'm a I'm a big lad, right? So I needed to be on top of my fitness. When I was fit, I was at the top of my game, but when I was in the training, you know, my fitness levels go down, it was it was harder to maintain that. And then I we played ards in uh county interim doing uh ards and we beat them 4-3. I scored twice. And I said to Trevor, look, I kinda keep continuing. I need I need some time. And he says, Right, what do you need? So I went, I went back to Scotland, spoke to Fizzle, he said you probably needed at least a month to rest and let me do my work. I think two and a half weeks in, we had a couple of bad results, and Trevor's on the phone saying, I need you back. And I come back and we played Cliftonville in the semi-final with County Antrim at Windsor. We beat them 3-2 and then we played the final um against Glenarvon. Uh Glentorns ground the oval, and we beat them 4-0. And then I was kind of in the team right through to the end of the season. But again, with hindsight, I'm I'm thinking, you know, I've had I've had an unbelievable season the season before. I've played through injury, I've scored 16 goals, we've won the county Antrim, we're going into the Irish Cup final, and there was no discussion about a potential contract. Now there was a long-held view that back then the the board only ever offered players who were coming up 30 a year's contract or something like that, right? No more than a year. Um, so but I genuinely, I genuinely didn't think any of it. We go uh we win the Irish Cup, played okay. I was I was instrumental and you know, we kind of worked through a free kick and it came off on the day and Halo scored. We win 3-1 and we win the Irish Cup. Happy days. I come back to Scotland, and I think about 10 days later I got a phone call for Trevor, who proceeds to tell me that um you know that the amount of money it was costing my wages and signed non-fees and travel and hotels, etc. etc. That they were going to put me in the transfer list. Um and I was like, whoa. So again, me being me, I made a few phone calls um just to get the cat out of the bag, and I think it hit the news that night, and it was a bit of a kind of I think it was a bit of a backlash with the Linfield fans, you know, like what's happening. Um but I'd by that time I had already made contact with Ronnie McFall, Nigel Bess was at Glenavon, Tommy Cassidy was at Glen Torin, Felix Healy was at Coleine. I had been in touch with them all, just to say, look, Linfield equipment transfer list, uh you're interested. And everybody was like absolutely, you know, but it's gonna cost us a lot of money. So back then, which was strange because in Scotland, so what used to happen, Jason, was if I was out of contract in Scotland, your contract lasted to the 30th of June, and then you didn't have to sign a contract, but they had to pay you they kind of held the registration, so they they they paid your wages.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Where in Northern Ireland, when your contract was finished, they didn't have to pay your wages, but they still held your cut your your registration. So in effect, I was basically Winfield offered me a contract with just my wages and nothing else, right? Which was totally unacceptable given we'd too successful. I know we didn't have a great league campaign that year, so I'll take that. But we had won the Irish Cup again back into Europe, and then the season prior to that was you know one of the most successful in the club's history. So I was really, really disappointed. I had little or no communication. I started to get in touch with IFA, basically saying, you know, they're they're making it difficult for me, blah blah blah. Cut a long story short. Uh I'd been in contact with Ronnie McFall, and Ronnie kept kind of back and forth trying to see if we could get a fee, you know, an agreed fee. I always remember talking to the old uh chairman David Campbell, God rest him, but and he says to me, Gary, you know, if Estranra come in, we won't be hard to deal with. But if AC Milan come in, it'll be a different you know, that kind of attitude. So what he was basically saying was, is we're not going to let you go to another Irish League club on the cheap.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I said, but you're not letting me go in the cheap, you're not prepared to set a fee, but you're actually offering me a contract as derisory. So again, I think it probably ended up my contract ended in the June, and it probably ended up near to the end of the July. So I'd went about three weeks, nearly four weeks without any wages, and I was training at St. Martin's style. In between times, you know, your Nigel Bess and Tommy Cassidy and Felix Elaine came back to say, we'd love to sign you, but we're not going to take a chance and go to a tribunal because we might get stung. And I could understand that. And then eventually, fair play, Ronnie McFall phoned me up and just says, Look, let's get this done, we'll we'll take our chances. And it went to a tribunal. I think they ended up having to pay 20 22,000 or 20,000 or something like that. Which was a lot of money back then, and I signed for Porter Down.
SPEAKER_00Did you ever get to the bottom of why you were bombed out? I mean, was it a footballing decision? Do you think Trevor didn't want you anymore, or was this a financial decision?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'll tell I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it was, right? Because I said to you, I had been uh struggling with an Achilles tendinitis injury. And I think I think at that time, whether it's Trevor or whether at that time, probably the the board, the committee, had quite I mean, I don't know how much influence they have nowadays, but back then they had a lot of power and a lot of influence, you know. They they kind of I'm not saying but they they they held the ACs, and I think they were probably saying to you, Trevor, no, we're not prepared to sanction that because you know I was kind of carrying this injury and it, yeah, you know, and I was at I was getting to that age where I was I think I just turned 30 yeah, or I was just coming up for 30 or whatever. So I think it was purely down to that because ironically, we'll maybe come to that. Trevor signed me two years later for Newry.
SPEAKER_00I was just about to say, so Trevor still fancied you then a couple of years later.
SPEAKER_01Listen, it wasn't a football and thing. I think they thought that I'd go to 30 and that was me, the legs had gone, my career was over. And you know, I went to Port and Down, and you know, the rest is history. Uh we won the league and won several competitions, and I think every time I played Linfield that season I scored. And you know, it was ironic that first game against Linfield at Shamrock Park, the Linfield fans were singing my name. Um so that that probably told you everything you needed to know about their feelings on you know letting me go, particularly me going to in effect back then was probably I know obviously Glenn Tornor, the big rivals, but at that time Porta Down were probably you know his bigger rival because of the the situation. So yeah, that's where we ended up, Jason.
SPEAKER_00But I have to say that the respect that you still have from the Linfield fans that I I find that quite rare. I mean, there's there's players that have played for Lindfield for longer than you, have won more than you, have scored more goals than you, and don't seem to get the same adulation as as what you as what you get even to this day on Twitter, and you know, we have you on the Windsor Way podcast now. But why why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I I probably I probably I probably live their dream, and I'm just one of the guys who could have been brought up in Lisbon, East Belfast, well best West Belfast, you know, been a Linfield fan, you play, and I think they just seen me as one of the boys who happen to be decent at football. And I think what helped is you you touched on it at the beginning, you know, people say to me, Oh, you're a legend. I'm not a legend. I would say I'm a a cult, cult figure, simply because of the the the the celebration, you know. I mean, I'll give you an example, you know, we went to uh went to a porter down 30-year uh anniversary of the the 96th league winning team just in the end of May there, and they had all the players out and they called us in one by one. And when I walked in, they started singing my name. But nobody else, they didn't sing anybody else's name. I think that I don't know, just I don't know. I think I think it's the celebration thing just made that connection, you know. They still talk about it today, you know. You still, you know, I I'm on Twitter and I still get that for Linfield fans. I probably just a connection. And I think I think if I'm being honest, Jason, I think they felt at the time I was really hard done by as well, you know, because people talk about you know, there's no loyalty in football, but loyalty is a two-way thing. You know, I was loyal to Linfield at that time and played through injury, and yet the you know, the the thanks I got for that was on the transfer list. Now, I can look back, I went to Porta Down, we won the league. Linfield never won the league, I think, for another five years or something after that. We won, you know, we beat Linfield in a League Cup final or the Ulster Cup final, and you know, um, so I have no complaints, but I felt I was hard done by I love my time there, you know. It's what it is, isn't it? You just you just have to go on me. But I the the supporters are fantastic, you know. I've been over with uh I was made uh uh honorary member of the Raven Lindfield Supporters Club and uh keep in touch with the boys. Um I've been over several times and you know I touched base with different people. So I it's got a special place in my heart, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00So maybe just fast forward then a bit because you you you spent some time at Newry, you finished up at Ards, actually, which I was interested to read. Um you didn't fancy getting to the coaching or the management at any point?
SPEAKER_01Well, that's a good question, and and and the short answer is yes and no. And I'll tell you why. Yes, what I should have done is I said I should have moved to Northern Ireland. I should have moved to Northern Ireland, I should have bought a house there, and I would have probably potentially still been living there, or I would have most definitely simply just because of my profile and what I'd done in the Irish League, I would have ended up at one of the bigger clubs as a manager. Yeah. I think that's probably goes without saying, given that a lot of the you know, the well-known people in the game became managers. Now, how successful they'll be, you'll never, never, ever know. Anyway, I came back um and I started working and I really enjoyed my job. And I did a wee bit of coaching with a good friend of mine, Sammy Johnson, God wrestling, who used to play in uh the Irish League with Glenarvin and Cole Rain. He sadly passed away last year. And we we ran a wee um local junior team, and we were we were very successful. We won a league, we won a cup. Um, but it's very, very, very time consuming. Um and you need to start, you know, you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. And I was in a career, I was in a good job, I was working my way up the ladder, and I just you know, I was one of the people who could that's my football career, I could part that and I could move on, and that's what I did. Um and uh you know, I've no regrets, um and then I've kind of landed into the situation at the minute at the moment. So no, if I was over Northern Ireland, I would most definitely have took my coaching badges and ended up probably being a manager or a coach or an assistant at some point.
SPEAKER_00And so eventually, then just recently you've been appointed to the board at at St. Mirrin um without getting in any details about it. How's how's that going for you? Are you enjoying it?
SPEAKER_01I absolutely love it. It's like um it's like a wee guy getting his Christmas presents like three times a year, you know. You're from Paisley, born and bred, proud, proud Paisley buddy, uh, supporter of this the club, played with the club, and now I've got an opportunity to be a director. It's it's it's it's almost it's almost a pinch me moment. Um so I work for an organization called Kibble Education and Care Centre, and we are the second biggest shareholder at St. Mirren. And as a result of that, we can have two members of the senior two members of the senior management team on the board. So I'm one of two uh employees at Kibble who are on the board. So I'm I'm I'm on the board through my job. Right, I'm not on focus because I'm a Paisley boy and I played with St. Murrin. I'm on through my job. I just happen to be a Paisley boy who played for the club. And it's been it's been really eye-opening. It's um really interesting getting to know the kind of the kind of back details of how to how a football club runs and ironically how much money it takes to run a football club, and you know, everything that goes into running a football club on a day-to-day level, particularly at the level that's in on that uh, you know, Premier League, win the League Cup last year, uh been in Europe recently, you know, try to attract players, try to, you know, get people through the through the gate, try to attract sponsorship, um, you know, just went through a kind of management uh recruitment there and been part of that. And so I is it's I stuff a dreams, you know. It's a it's a great, it's a great thing at mass staging my life and my career to be involved at St. Martin and and hopefully in time, you know, making an impact and making a difference.
SPEAKER_00Well, look, Gary, nice one. Really appreciate your time this evening. Maybe you'll join us again later in the season. We'll have a chat about how Linfield and St. Murren are getting on if you if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_01Look, Jason, as I've said to many of the guys that have done this, you know, I I enjoy this because it lets me keep connected to guys like yourself who are you know big Linfield fans, big supporters in the the Irish League. I keep an eye on the Irish League. Um you know it's always you know Linfield ported down new rear, the you know, the first results I look for. So if there's anything anything I can do, come on to a you know a podcast, come on to a chat, talk about any specific you know, game or any of that, just give us a give us a shout and I'm I'm happy to support.