Pete Shirlow joins the Weekly Review

Jason Burke (host) is joined by Mo Brown, Haydn Milligan, and guest appearance from Professor Pete Shirlow to discuss our European exit, the manager's decision to stay, and the prospect of anymore new signings.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

This is Jason Burke for the Windsor Way podcast, where you can hear Blue Men on the Blues, Home and Away. With me for this week's weekly review, I have Mo Brown, I've got the ever-present Hayden Milligan, and we've got a guest appearance this evening from Professor Pete Sherlock, who's uh well-published uh author, uh director of Irish studies at the University of Liverpool, amongst many other things, but more importantly, is a blue man. Uh so how's things with you, Peter? What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Well, unfortunately, I don't get as many games as as I would hope to, but uh I did sit down last week to watch that European game and went to bed with uh a great deal of a heavy heart, and uh because we know how much that money is important, and you know, maybe we will discuss this later, but uh you know you have to do well in Europe now to to be uh sustainable and to buy the players and to develop the club, so all very disappointing, but uh nonetheless, you don't lose hope. We've been in many dark days down the years.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Um I love your positivity. It's it's about time I had some positivity brought to this point.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Well, I'm always positive about the blues, and I won't criticize them. You know, I just won't do it, and uh maybe that's a bit naive, but maybe later on we'll talk about some ideas they have about how we restore the club and its fortunes. But uh you know yourself, you went to the first game, you fell in love with them, and that was it. It's it's it's it's just it just is that that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

It's it's it's the word fan comes from the word fanatic, you know. Keaton, what about you? What have you been up to? Have you been away on holiday or anything?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yeah, I had a we had a wife and I had a nice week over in Alaman, um, looking at the uh railways over there, uh, and also um a trip round the TT course, part of the TT course in a coach um with uh commentary from uh an ex TT rider. So that was quite um interesting, although we weren't matching the uh 200 miles an hour that uh that someone got up to. Um but uh that was I hadn't been to Aleman before, so that was uh a very nice trip, actually. And you made it in some. Oh, and did you know that Douglas was twinned with Ballimone?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh, it's like a twin a twin town type thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, uh, and the the thing in common they've got really is the motorcycling. Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

And you made it back in time for the European match last Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yes, uh well I saw the um I saw the um the first match on online and then I I saw the uh the second match live. Um first match, you know, again you're thinking we shouldn't have lost that. Uh we think about the mis the chance that McLean blasted over the bar. How did he miss that sort of thing? Um, you know, I didn't think the team that we were playing was that good. Uh, we certainly could have got a draw out of it. And then last week it's like, oh, not again. You know, we we we get in front and we're playing quite well, and then we get the man sent off, and he's thinking, you know, Fitzpatrick gets shellborn all over again, um, and then we score and we're we're looking good, and then we go defensive again. And uh, you know, we subsequently learn from World Cup what happens if you then try and go defensive at the wrong time. And then of course we'd lose a thing in the last minute. It's just unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Um the three things I've written down against your your uh agenda are all the same because they're all pound signs. At the end of the day, um that's what it means, big loss of 250,000 pounds or whatever it is. Um I don't think in current form and so on we could have beaten Shellborne, but you never know. At least you could be in with a chance. Um, but we don't get that chance and we don't get the money.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

So and the really frustrating thing is uh the really frustrating thing is the draw. I I don't know if you've seen that a share of that into the group there yesterday. The draw was that whoever gets past uh that that that that shellborne Calugia uh game will play Ajax potentially in the next round.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

I did see that, but my past experience of watching the blues in the Netherlands wasn't very good.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Were you at the Eindoven game? The end of the Endover game, yeah, yeah. Uh what about you, Mo? Did you get catch a glimpse of any of the European games?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, no, I I seen the um away leg on stream. It was actually quite a good stream. I wouldn't say it was value for money given the result, but you know you know it was it was worth the money paid for it. Um didn't get to the game last week, was too busy rehearsing with the band for upcoming events, and as for a break, won't get a break until after Derry Day. Um Linfield fan pants, man. It's that time of the year where you have to make a choice between marching the streets or hurling abuse of the referees from the stands, and I've gone for marching on the streets this year.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Quite right, too. I I I didn't see the first game, unfortunately, I wasn't able to, but and I didn't get to the second one, but I did watch the stream of it. Um it it it sort of took me back to the AGM I've seen this idea, and and Hayden sort of touched on it there because there was a couple of fans questioned the manager at the AGM about this idea of a defensive mentality whenever the team go ahead. And he he was categorical, Hayden, if you remember, that he he never asks the team to do that. He says I'd never sent out a Linfield team to be defensive or to sit back and protect the lead. And the the conclusion that that makes me come to is it's a mentality thing, and particularly in Europe, because the same thing keeps happening time and time again, whether that be as you say, red cards, the sort of defensive attitude, losing sort of very late goals in uh to crash out of Europe. So it tells me that it must be a mentality thing. Um, but regardless of all of that, and a couple of people have already touched on it, is the financial implications. Um it was suggested in something that I read that it was potentially 350,000. I don't know if it's 350,000 pounds or 350,000 euros, but that's what we missed out on, and then whatever then we might have accrued then through the Shelborne games. And the manager has already alluded to it in his uh comments subsequently uh since the match that this will have a direct impact on our our transfer dealings and our ability to bring in quality. Now we might be able to bring in bodies, we might still be able to bring in two or three, maybe loans, short-term things, uh, young players, things like that. But the idea of Linfield being able to bring in quality signings between now and the end of the window uh seems uh that it's not going to happen. And then, of course, then the impact that that has on the rest of the season. Because if we finished fourth uh last season, having lost 11 players and brought in five, and you can count then Ran McKay, who went today on loan, so it's 12 players out the door. Um, five at the last time of counting have have come in, so the squad is thinner, the squad's lighter, the squad is arguably lacking in quality in comparison to last year, and having starting a start starting then from a position of fourth, you don't imagine that it's going to get much better than that, Pete, uh, for the season ahead.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

I think it's uh it's time to really have a sort of a root and branch review of the whole setup. And I don't wish to say this in a negative way, but I think we've seen this coming, and uh clearly the Larn and Colorain money has very much changed the the whole format of the league and the capacity, even if you had money, to entice players. You know, Joel Cooper is clearly like any of us, if somebody offered you more money in better conditions, you would go. And and you know, years ago it used to be the opposite. Players really wanted to come to play for us. I I think there's there's a whole range of sort of problems we need to identify. Uh, one is Winter Park is soulless. The crowds last year were terrible. Any game I went to last year, I was just sitting there going, Where's the crowd? And I think that's not just performance, I think it's just too big a ground for such a small support base. You know, I'd be a great advocate of uh the committee commissioning people to actually do some strategic uh review of the whole setup, uh, what the challenges are with the money that's in the league in other clubs. You know, could Midgley Park be created as a sort of a smaller ground that we could play the the CAG Rangers, etc., in to you know, to to actually create an atmosphere, play the bigger games, of course, in Windsor Park. I think there's an issue about the ownership model. Uh and uh I think that's something which has to be looked at. But you know, the crowds older, you know, it's it's it's we're not bringing young people through the gate in the way that we used to do. Uh the population of Northern Ireland a few years' time will be more people dying than being born. You know, that there's look anybody who ran a business or any organization will be looking at the market in terms of fan base, income base. I'm sure they do this, but but it just strikes me that this is a moment now to get some sort of external thinkers to come in and and really plan a proper strategy for the future of the club. Because you can't you can't rely on a game in Europe, you know, player gets sent off, you get a dodgy refereeing decision, whatever else. So, anyway, you start off by saying I was very positive, but but I do think the time has come now for some real evaluation of where we are and where we need to go. And uh when you read out that list of uh players have left, I was thinking of getting my boots out of the shed because I might be playing later in the season, you know. But but there is something's gone, it's changed, you know. You know, it's something's changed in the league, and and the money that's come into the league, it has changed it. And with our ownership structure, declining spectator base, you know, it's it's it has to be solution seeking now, not whinging and gurning. It has to be a really thorough examination of where this club is going to go.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I'll maybe just come to you now, Hayden, just uh just on the idea of transfers, really, and as someone who goes week in, week out. We know the impact this is now going to have on the manager's budget. He he'll be more frustrated than anybody, you know, on this Zoom call this evening that he won't be able to bring in quality players. But what areas do you think that he he'll be wanting to strengthen in particular?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Well, I think um you know it goes back to formations again, and um you mentioned you know, three at the back, five at the back, and so on. I I I've kept banging on last season about the fact that you know three at the back is a specialised formation, and you need to have three tall, quick defenders to have three at the back. Whether you play uh two um uh attacking pullbacks is another matter. Now I think by bringing in Nolan, we've definitely um increased the uh the cover there at the back, but I still think we're stuck at the moment with with the four defenders at the back, and I'm happy enough with that. Um defender uh um defensive midfielders, we've got Chris Seagles, but the problem, and you mentioned Carl McLean, the problem I've seen before is when McLean acts as a defensive midfielder, it completely nullifies any attacking uh skills that he shows. And I think he's much, much better as an attacking midfielder, more freedom to play, to get up into the penalty box, score goals from there, and so on. We didn't see much of that last year, really. Um Miller has been very disappointing last season and the other night as well. Very disappointing. So I'm not quite sure where to go with him. I think um we've got to go with have another defensive, a really good defensive midfield player with Chris Shields. Um, and I think we need to build up from the back and then to bring in another attacking midfielder alongside um Kyle McLean. Uh up front, yes, the manager stated at the AGM that he wanted to play Fitzpatrick and Offord up front, and admitted, as we all knew, Offord got his injury and he wasn't able to pair those two together. But at the AGM, he also said about going through the tactics book, I think he said it was, trying out all the different formations you could probably think of, you know, 3-5-2-4-4-2-4-5, whatever it may well be. And I'm thinking, what, at this stage in his managerial career, he hasn't sorted out the correct formation yet. I mean, I just was stunned by that. So if he thought two up front was the best option, he should have been playing Chris McKee up front with this paddle because he he is an attacking player, McKay. But instead, he left him out several times, and when he did bring him on, he bring him on some sort of number 10 role, and it just didn't work. So it sort of looked in the European games as if he was going back to this one up front. But I think you've got to attack these teams. So, and you know, in with Linfield in the Irish League, the top team uh hit history-wise in the in the in the Irish League, we have to be playing two attackers at least up front. Three if you could, but certainly two. Um, so I think it's that defensive midfielder and also another attack in midfield. Now, does Bird fill the role? Maybe. You know, he wasn't too bad last season. Brazil, I thought, looked good. Um, I think you just really got to start from the back and just make sure the defence is okay and then the defensive midfielders are okay, and start building up confidence from there.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Really you you mentioned Kirk Miller there, and uh you know he I I didn't mention him, and it wasn't because I forgot about him. Um I always like to look of us playing for 4-3-3, in fact, and and Kirk Miller playing uh as a third forward. Um but the 4-3-3 doesn't work if you're gonna play Offord and Fitzpatrick together as as as two as two forwards, unless one of them's playing wide, of course. So you end up going round and round in circles. But I think it's back to the idea that you said there that the manager said at the AGM they're maybe not quite sure themselves what the best formation is, what the best starting 11 is. It seems to change from game to game depending on the opponent. I'm you know managers getting paid a lot more than I am. He knows a lot more about football than I do, but it strikes me that Linfield should have their formation, people should change to us rather than the other way around. But Mo, you're you're another uh supporter who goes week in, week out. Where would you like to see us strengthen with the limited budget that we have?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I would like to see us strengthen anywhere, to be brutally honest. I don't think the squad is deep enough, I don't think it's good enough as a squad. Um, I think whenever you go through that starting 11 there, you know, the that starting 11, 14-15 players is more than capable of competing to a certain degree. Um, but if we were to get slightly deeper into the County Anthem Shield League Cup, looking towards the Irish Cup the end of the year again into January, it's very, very clear looking at the last two European games, that the bench just doesn't have the quality to compete with Colora and Larne or even a Glen Torn. Um that then brings me on to the fact that we were promised quality silence, we were promised peace and power, but we weren't promised those with the caveat depending on a European result. You know, uh the chairman said it on this very podcast, he said it around other um supporters' clubs, it's been in the media. You know, we were promised this. Linfield Linfield supporters were promised peace and power, a slight reduction in numbers of the squad, but with quality coming in. I can't see that, and I mean that with the greatest respect to the young lads that have come in at the minute, but we are way, way down on quality, way, way down on numbers, and that brings it into what um Peter's already alluded to, essentially about a root and branch review about everything that's gone on. And it's good to see your enthusiasm and positively, Peter, lasted all of five minutes. Um, I don't know whether that's we'll drag you down yet. We'll drag you down. Yeah, yeah, way way down.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I'm actually thinking this is like the time I worked at the Demurray Inn and I couldn't get the Linfield game when all the outhands came in. And I said to one of them, how did the Blues get on? Yeah, the 1-3-0, they were rubbish. I know we can all be a bit thran about these things. No, but the thing about that squad is I don't believe that any of those players are not good utility players. Yeah, I don't believe they're not workman like or anything like that. The one thing we just don't seem to have is somebody who just does something unique. The flair, you know, the player who mightn't do something for 50 or 60 minutes but then might make the pass or you know, or or or you know, might go past the player and change the break down the play. But it just strikes me as you know, we we don't seem to have a Murray or a Cooper or uh you know Peebles, you know, somebody who just can do something exceptional because I don't think the Irish League's easy to win, but I don't think it's a league that's hard to score in either. And and I think Hayden's right, it's it it is really about something which is to do with firing power. I I think you can talk about formations all day long, but you do need to have people who are exceptional, and it's sort of like an infield team should have five or six of the best players in the league, not not players who would be the best player at Glenavon or the best player at Carrick Rangers, and and I sort of get that sense, and I'm I'm not decrying it, and hopefully we'll be sitting here next year talking about having won all the trophies we could play in. But but I do think there is a at times it's sort of you hear it amongst the fans, you know, it's too negative. It's it's it's just maybe football's changed, maybe you don't have flair players anymore. But but but it just seems to me that they actually could still you could carry one or two people who just pop up out of nowhere and do something that you didn't expect them to do, or you know, that the other team didn't expect them to do. It seems to me it's not about formation, it is actually about most point, it is about depth.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

I think Peter, as well, it ties in nicely with what you said about the the atmosphere and the match day experience and everything else that we've spoken for what seems now like hours almost bordered on days on on the podcast. If you think back to our last league winning season, the football wasn't great, the Magday experience wasn't great, but people still turned up because we were scraping back, mainly because we did have that player in Joel Cooper that you know, if you were drawing a game one each, that there was still that optimism there. And if the optimism's in the stands, that feeds onto the pitch that the that nervous energy goes into the opposition defenders and would maybe scrape a 2-1, or maybe if we were, you know, maybe losing a game, we'd get back and get in the draw. We've lost obviously Joel Cooper, and then last season the results don't go your way. And you're not gonna turn up and watch that. You're just you're you're you're you're just not uh you would rather turn up and watch a Dungarin Swift that play football the right way but might not win. And if I lived the other side of Belfast and lived out towards the Lisburn direction, Middlester direction, and was a casual football fan, and somebody said you get 15 quid, you need to go watch an Irish league game today. You're going west, you're not coming into the city to watch the blues, you know, and that's that's just a sad sad state of affairs at World of Club.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

It's Mo it's the teams that Linf Linfried have watched Linfried over many years, and you know, you grind some some years you grind it out, and some years you were just the the top of the you know the top top of the pile without any shot of a doubt. But it does seem to me that you know when you think of that year we won the league, we're playing Clifford in the midweek game, and the ball hit the post, or John saved it or party on the post, ball went up the far end, and we stuck the ball in the back of the net. That fear thing is gone because a Linfield team is my first game was 1969. My my whole career watching Linfield is when they were good, they would score in the last minute. When they were too dull down, they would win 3-2. And and it's you know, that's that's what you need. You need to have that fear in other teams, they have to be afraid of you, and and and you can see last year, you know, people teams park the bus and then they would work out of vulnerability and then exploit it. Well, we know about tactics, every club has tactics, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

But Peter, it was there's been many examples over the last 18 months, two years, and you're the opposition, you walk out of Windsor Park, you're taking the kickoff, and you see Kirk Miller at left back or left wing back. That doesn't put the fear into you. If you see Kirk Miller on the other end on the right wing, and no matter who's got the kickoff, and he takes himself up our right wing, with his hand out, his chest on the air, go, give me the ball, I'm gonna put this ball into the box, that puts the fear on onto the opposition. And you you're right, and it's just been it's just been a failure. It's a failure of everything. I think um yeah, you know, I I know we spoke about beforehand not being all doom and gloom and talking about everything off feed, but I think as a collective, the club isn't just feeling, it's very quickly going back. Backwards and it brings back to your point, Peter, there, you know, ten-fifteen minutes ago. They have to do something now. Yeah, it's okay coming out now after a European defeat and saying, Well, we've got no money but players, we're going to go with what we've got. That's not what we were promised. We were promised peace and power and five, six quality signings. So don't come out literally four weeks later and say, Oh, we've got no money now, lads, that's not happening. Because then somebody's telling us lies. Simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

I think the other thing about fear, um, I last last year, as we know, playing away, we played in a horrible, horrible to me and several other black kit. Now, firstly, it's been confirmed we'll not be playing in a black kit this season. Um, but I saw an entry on the supporters forum one time from a Porter Down fan and after the match at Porter Down, where we lost 2-0, and he said, Why were Linfield wearing that black kit? He says, There could be anyone wearing a black kit, not Linfield. He says, When we see somebody coming out there in blue shirts with a red trim, we know it's Linfield, and that's different. And that's significant, I think, as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Which Hayden, you're only a point there. Um, we should be wearing our home kit, our blue shirt, our white shorts, and our red socks, with the exception of Glenn Avon and Duncan Swifts, and that's it. And actually start going round. We may we may not have it on the pitch there at the minute, but as a club, actually getting out there, getting into people's faces and go, we're still in the field, we're still the biggest team in the land. It may not be going our way at the moment, yeah. But we do need somebody on the field, off the field, and in the stands, in a suit, grabbing everything by the balls and go follow us, lead us.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

You see the thing, uh do you remember the time whenever Spike came to us? And I remember watching the news, and one of the Lindfee supporters clubs, might have been the club on the Shango Road, etc., had basically donated a significant amount of money.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

It was the European club.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah, okay. Right. So so we're out of Europe, okay? So we can sit here winching gurn, okay. Uh, why does the club not go out, say there's a problem with buying players, and try to get the fan base to make a contribution financially? I'm not saying I don't know if that can happen, or but it should be happening because a club's not just a committee, a club's also its support. So if somebody came to me here, I might say too much, turn the recorder off. I would throw a few bob in if I knew we were going to get a player and and and the chart was a hundred grand. I'm sure other people would throw some money in as well. Yeah, you know, it's you know, it's it's it's it's getting back to that community spirit because you know the club's own by us, you know, and and you know, we're respecting for the club. Peter, let me let me uh let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Let me ask you this question. I raised this on Twitter and got a few negative responses within the last week. Now, my Jews at the Raven Linfield Supporters Club in East Belfast are £15 a month. £15 a month. That is 18 times more over the course of a season than it is to be a full member of the parent club. To be a full member of Lymphi Football Club, it's an extra tether on your season ticket. So the supporters' clubs in theory are generating more wealth because Lymphie can't generate any income on a match day because of everything that we've already discussed around Windsor Park. So the supporters' clubs in theory have more wealth. Now, even if you did have a couple of grand sitting in the bank, would you trust Willie McKill with that money to go and source a new player? Um, obviously, I've shared it in the R group there not too long ago, all the players that David Healy has brought in since he became manager. So the last 10 years worth of players, and you look through it, and it is frightening reading. Um sorry, I need to give a big shout out to the Gurney Club loyal there on Twitter. It was them wanted the what wanted the racism. It's it's tied in nicely. So even if the money was there, would you give it up given with what we've seen recruitment? Why is the last five, six even out with 10 years? I would say no.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I think certainly wouldn't be like your man Phoenix side, Bright was a New Zealand guy. Yeah, which uh I don't think I've ever seen worse than a Linfree shirt. Hope he's not listening. But I would Morris if if things were if things were presented to me in the right way and it was thought out and it was carefully considered, I would I would put some money in. I I I think uh we can't we can't just be passive and say our club's got financial issues. Uh you know, you know how how many people do we think actually support Lindfeed? What 20, 30,000 people, 30, 40,000 people?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

But Peter, the point I was trying to make was that surely a club membership is worth more than 10 pounds a year. Um I was arguing with a gentleman and he was telling me, well, all you get for that is a private briefing and a vote. The vote's the most important thing, and it's only worth £10 a year, but yet, you know, and you I would like to think that the Raven Um Supporters Club is um quite modern, quite forward-thinking on its outlook. You know, we take a box, we we do feed as much money as we can into the into the parent club, you know, the a couple of the board come to our AGM every year. Um but surely, surely, even if you raised it the £100, the vast majority of members would have that line around. And it would certainly multiply that income by ten. And just one other point, it was actually David Healy had said Chris Brig.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

I I think my my fear is that the ramifications of what happened last Thursday night in terms of the exit from Europe and the financial implications, we might not see that for a year, two, three years down the line. And I think you know Peter's right in much of what he says there we need in the sh in the short term, we need radical new thinking in order to find our way out of this mess, but also it can be solved on the coaching pitch. Um and that brings me on to the issue of the manager because the last time we spoke Mo the batteries run out on the podcast, and the listeners, God help them, missed out on our conversation about the manager who at the time was being linked heavily with Shellborne. And we were discussing I think the last words on the podcast were by David Graham that day, who finished off by saying that the David Haley owes Lindfey nothing in terms of the commitment that he's given us, the trophies that he's won. We went on to talk about before the Batteries had run out and we didn't realise. We went on to talk about whether the the opportunity at Shelbourne would have been one that he would be interested in. And let's be honest, Mo, you you you were driving the bus to Dublin with him and Willie McCone and all the coaching staff on it. You you were quite frank and clear about that. Um the manager has since committed uh to Lindfield, Shelbourne have appointed another manager. Uh, but how do you how do you feel now that it looks like David Healy's gonna stay for the remainder of his contract, which is which is two years, and if this thing's gonna be solved, it's gonna be solved on the pitch, and it's gonna be solved by David Healy and his coaching staff.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Well, if that's the case, and I've said this before, Jason, I'm not looking David Healy out of the club. Um I'm looking change. Something has to change. Now, if we're going all in with David Healy and his current coaching staff, then the change has to come elsewhere. The change has to come elsewhere in the leadership group, elsewhere in the commercial team, the team committee, you know, and as much as uh as much as I would like to think I've got a I've got a decent relationship anytime we've spoken with a chairman, it needs to come from a chairman as well. He's even a Senate as well that if we are looking at part-time foot football next season, he'll have said he more or less field and he'll go back to sitting on the stands with the rest of us. And that's not a criticism of Roy. But if we are going all in with David Healy and his current setup on the pitch, then he needs more support off the pitch, which then needs the main change in the round the stands. How that is accomplished is then up to the various committees, the management committee, the board of directors, and ultimately the membership of Linfoo Football Club.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah, and ultimately we're only fans, we're only podcast gob shit at the end of the day. So all that's left for us is to back the team, to back the manager and back the team. Because if people, as has been suggested on social media, stop going, don't want the renew season tickets on the on the basis of everything that's happening, that this thing's just gonna spiral out of control and it's just gonna get much worse. So I think as a podcast, as a fan base, you know, it's it's it's over to us. We have to do our bit as well, quite frankly. You know, we we pay our money, we go, but we can't just be passive supporters or fans or whatever you want to call it. We have to be active supporters and back David Haley, actively vocally back the players, and particularly back the young players, because there's going to be a lot of young players brought through this team over the next couple of years, and you know, difficult as it is, playing for Linfield, playing for the biggest club on the island, um, sometimes we can make it a bit more difficult for them, Hayden, by by the way the supporters behave. Um, but what what was your reading of the manager's situation there and the links with Shelborn and how it all played out?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Well, uh, I think the first thing was the manager should have came out immediately with the link and said, Nothing to do with me, not interested, haven't been approached, whatever. And that would have just killed that stone dead. As it happens, because it ran on for some time, people were sort of thinking, um, oh, maybe there is something in it. You know, there's a there was a free spot there, and it went on until the the the um manager's job was fulfilled at uh Shelbourne, and then he eventually came out and said, Well, no, I wasn't interested anyway. You know, he was at the match to check them out, which is which is what you would expect. But he he should come out instantly and and say that because there's nothing in it.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah, Pete where Pete, where do you stand on the on the manager? I know he do he defied and uh he he divides the fan base, there's no there's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

I remember people used to scream and shout abuse at Roy Cloy. He just you know it's uh I I think that if because obviously saying earlier on, I've been going for a long time, I just think the context in which he's manager is difficult compared to previous managers because of the Lauren Colrain situation. The the fact that the European money is a game changer, you know. You you remember a couple of years ago whenever Giffenville got Celtic, you know, they were able to keep their players, and and I I think as much as you know, you had the Porter Down Gun Avon threat in the 80s and 90s, you know, you know, that money ran out, and uh Uri to a certain extent, you know, money was being pumped in. But it's not that model now where somebody turns up and puts money into a club, it's different. It's it's people are putting in big money, I think it's sustainable for them, they can afford to do it, and I think also the European money means that you know people must be looking at Irish League clubs and going, you know, I get I you know somebody told me once that they looked into taking on Chester City, it was 60 grand a week, okay? And they were thinking about an Irish League club because it would have been a fraction of that and a run in Europe and they would have got their money back, you know. So so that's what I meant earlier on about the strategy thinking about the future. That European money has changed football, it's made Irish League clubs more attractive as a proposition. Of course, we can't have an owner, which is part of what we should be looking at and reviewing. But but I think to be honest with you, given all of that and COVID, he he has won his trophies, and and he has won his trophies. I'm not saying when David Jeffrey was around, he won as many trophies. There wasn't much competition, but I'm not detracting from him. He he was a he had a good eye for a player, Coyle had a great eye for a player. Glenn's were a big club there, but it's just that's why I started this off by saying about the strategic review. Something's changed, and and the change is that European money, and the change is Larn and Colin, you know, and uh to be honest with you, and it's not just a bitter bitter rivalry. Like, how did we come behind Glenn Torn? Like that that's that that's not a team that showed any real ability or or capacity to win a league. So, you know, there it I I think the best thing to do is I sorry, the what I would say is I I I don't wish for him to go. I think he has done a good job, but I think he's working in a very, very difficult situation.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

I might just uh in order to finish, turn to a few fan questions now. I asked on social media today on our Facebook group and on Twitter for submissions of listener questions, and we'll just sort of deal with a few of them here.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Are these the most positive ones, Jason?

SPEAKER_01 34:46

For the benefit of the listeners, let me let me say that about 99% of these questions were were negative and doom and gloom. So I've tried to pick some of the better ones. That's not to say that we won't deal with the doom and gloom whenever it's required, but uh let's see. So Michael Armstrong, um Neil Neil's son, um he asked about Friday Friday night football. He says, How many Friday nights will we be involved in this season? Now I've been dealing with Niffle in the background about a uh a couple of other things, and I happen to know that the Cliftonville match, uh which is within the first three home games I think that we're playing of the season, is getting moved to the Friday night. But I know Mo that you uh you love a Friday night, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 35:29

I I no, no, I don't fucking hate them. I hate them particularly home games, particularly home games. Limpfield Football Club, I'm sick of saying I must have said it about ten times on the podcast. Limpfe Football Club, home games Saturday afternoon, three o'clock. Um what I will say about the Friday night games this year is if we're going off league positioning and success, um it'll probably be a lot less than what it has been in recent years. I was speaking to um Joel Taggart, ironically. I worked close to the BBC, I bumped into him the other week and was talking about Friday night games, and he happened to say, and he's right in what he was saying, that you know, the reason Linfield are picked for more Friday night games than any other team is that's where that's where the attraction is. Even if you're not a Linfield fan, you still tune in, particularly if Linfield's getting beat. We know we all do it. We know, I mean, how many times do we sit down and laugh at Glen Thorn over the years, whenever they're on on a Friday night, they've had some beaters. Um, I remember the night that Aaron McCarry chin, Bobby Burns, had only just tuned in because it'd seen it Linden Key and had scored. Um tuned in all hell was breaking lease. It was great fume, great fume. Um, but I I I think we will have less this year. The away games, it's tough then for supporters' clubs and buses. I know we've discussed this as well. My own club actually has a healthy amount of money in the bank, comparatively, because there was very few bus runs done last year. Moving games to color. I mean, we went up the cold room at night, was it too twice?

SPEAKER_04 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

They're they're the they're the they're the days out. You know, they're they're the ones that the supporters' clubs look forward to. They're the ones you can put a carry out on the back of the bus and generate wealth.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Did we end up without a crowd because people had booked the buses for the Saturday or whatever? Yeah, and what they would do to replay Lima Valley, play them on a Friday night. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, people often wouldn't go, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And nor nor would we endorse drinking carry-outs at the back of a bus, by the way, because that's totally totally.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Just some stats on that I've done for last season. Um, there was 40 games on a Friday last season, nine of these involved Linfield, um, three at home and six away. And at the AGM, it was mentioned that there was some discussion with Niffle about an opt-out system whereby a club who was sort of told they were going to play on a Friday night could actually opt out, maybe I don't know how many opt-outs they would have, but they would opt out of that. Um, and it was also talked about 6 pm on a Saturday as being a possible alternative. So um, you know, and the the first game there was moved to a Friday was Col Rain's trip to Porta Down. Now, uh the thing I don't understand about Friday night move is why do it with long trips? That doesn't help anyone.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

You know, I can understand it was Lynnfield Crusaders, Olympia Glen Toron, and so on. Uh, but why do it with long trips on a Friday night? Uh that's just bizarre to me.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Do we know how that's that stat compares with any of the other teams, Hayden?

SPEAKER_00 38:48

So if we got Well, obviously the fact that you know, if you take 40 and you divide by 12, you'll get three and a bit. So uh multiply that by two, because it's obviously it's two teams, that that's six and a bit. So nine for Lindfeel and an average of six, you know. So we had more. So we had more. Uh and we had six away. Uh it was the away that just was totally out of kilter.

unknown 39:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

And I think there's a lot equally there's the there's there's joined up thinking there that whenever you actually like see if it impacts your away support, particularly when the supporters' clubs or the social clubs, and the the the traditional football drinking culture around it, whenever you're not getting the away days, the guys aren't socializing as much, which then impacts then the home games as well, you know, because you're not catching up with people at all. And it's something that you certainly I can see the difference in the stance.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

So la last one then, because I'm I'm conscious that we've run a little bit over time. This one's from James Hogg, and he asks uh what's our thoughts on the upcoming summer football vote? Uh, which was in the Belfast Telegraph today, that uh Jared Lawler will be instructing uh the representative of representatives of the vote on the issue of changing the football calendar. And Hayden, you were straight in saying we should do a podcast on this, and we absolutely will do a podcast on this and about only this. Uh but Hayden, what's what's your initial thoughts on the idea of switching the football calendar away from what it currently is?

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Well, the the thing is summer football. Now, is it is it summer football to avoid the harsh winters that we get in you know May, for example, or is it summer football to help the clubs uh playing in Europe? Now, if it's the latter, well, it's not going to affect the teams that are not playing in Europe. Um, and there's lots of questions around this. I mean, I did do a bit of a document on this that we can discuss at separate podcasts, but it's going to impact on holidays, uh, children off school, um, you know, players with children off school, and so on and so on. I mean, I'm happy the way it is, but um are we going to model it on the system down south? And if if we do it for the sake of the European games, hoping it'll be better. If it doesn't turn out to be any better, will we switch it back to the way it is now? I don't think we will.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Pete, have you any strong opinions on the idea of summer football?

SPEAKER_03 41:20

I think it has to be really properly thought out, and they have to go and look at other leagues, as Hayden said, and see what the implications are. Because if you say, for example, you start it, you know, you're going to have at least a three, four, five month gap of no revenue. You know, so so it's it's you know, say you start, I don't know, say you start in May, but you finish in September. Or sorry, you finish in June, then you start in August, basically. So what's that, two, six, eight weeks? You know, you could you could you could finish one May, June, and you're not playing the first game for another four, five, six months. You know, there's actually a point where money's not coming in. But I think a lot of this Friday night football, Saturday night football, it really has to be a consultation with the fan base. I I know people who like it, I think it would make us a bit sharper in Europe. I I think that's important as well. Uh, but if if in other leagues it actually drove up attendances, I think that's maybe so you know, but you have to use facts and evidence, you can't just do it for reasons of suiting the the football leagues and all of that. And of course, I think also you get competition with GAA, golf, all of this as well, cricket seat, and not the cricket would draw too many people away. But but it has to be thought out, it just can't be a we're gonna do this. And of course, I've heard Gerald Lawler saying, you know, you you lose the boxing day game, but clubs shouldn't be relying on the boxing day game. But the boxing day game is actually an institution, you know. It it's it's not just it's not just a game, it's an institution. Um, you know, so like a lot of things I think I suppose what comes out of this conversation tonight is in a lot of things to do with the sport we love, we don't have much of a say.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Which is exactly why this podcast exists. And that's a good note to finish, actually. So we'll maybe just wrap it up there. Uh thanks to Mo, thanks to Hayden, uh, and thanks very much, Pete, for for joining us. Maybe we'll have you on again some stage in the future.