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A fun, honest and heartfelt podcast hosted by a mom and daughter who talk about everything—life, relationships, pop culture, family, mistakes, lessons and the stuff we usually talk about on FaceTime.
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Hey girl. Hey girl. How are you? That's a good room for you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks. I was actually very good. Yeah, because I'm sitting like right in front of a window. I'm trying to see. Because I can't turn you down at all. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Is it too loud?
SPEAKER_00In my no. Just like in my speakers. And I just don't want it to pick up. Whatever. It'll be what it'll be.
SPEAKER_01It'll be what it'll be. Anyhow. Hi.
SPEAKER_00How are you? I'm great. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm good.
SPEAKER_00Um our 7,000th time speaking today. It's 506.
SPEAKER_01And how many times have we talked today? Do you want to count talking and texting? No, text doesn't count. That's like a sharing of general consciousness. Okay, so I have one, two, three, well, if you count like mobile FaceTime, you know, four or five, but like really four. I I feel like that's reasonable.
SPEAKER_00There was like a thing going around on social media somewhere, and it was like, are you a like do you talk to your mom every day? And I was like, Yeah. If I don't, there's something seriously wrong with one of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or you're like out of the country. Yeah. Or something. But even so.
SPEAKER_00Even still.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I agree with that. But that's just, I think that's us, honey. It is a conversation for a different day, but but that is definitely not everybody.
SPEAKER_00No, agreed. We're very lucky. Um, so in full transparency, we recorded an episode maybe a week ago or two weeks ago, kind of testing this really our studio because we really want to have like a visual element to this, but the episode was just like not, it wasn't what it should have been. Like it just didn't have enough direction because we kind of went into it much more focused on the technology. Correct. So today we've come with a plan.
SPEAKER_01We come with a plan. And we're hoping it goes really well. I think it will go well. I will say, in follow-up to the funny conversation we had at the beginning of that episode that no one's gonna see, which initially was my amazement at giant blueberries, raspberries, etc. Sweetest, sweetest batch. Sweetest sweetest batch. Yeah, um, no one should be eating them now.
SPEAKER_00I was talking about how wonderful they are, but maybe not. No, it's so Kelly's still eating her berries every morning. It's for some reason raspberries are bad, but like blueberries are okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Because it can like hide in the grooves and you can't clean it as well. They basically said there's really no amount of like washing that you can do that will make it okay. Oh, fabulous.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, you don't cook it.
SPEAKER_01You can't cook the thing. But there's only it's only the you know, whatever green lettuces, herbs. It's vegetables and fruit. Right, but like you can if you can skin a vegetable, you can eat it. And if you can cook a vegetable, like you just shouldn't maybe eat them raw. Yeah. Um, but like raspberries was the main fruit, I feel like, that was identified as not blackberries. I would think blackberries would fall into that same category.
SPEAKER_00Me too. Our next, but like, am I worried about our next door neighbor has like this huge volume of blackstorms? Totally different.
SPEAKER_01No, because it's not the actual like I have basil outside that I use. Yeah, no, it's because they've been contaminated by something they're trying to trace it. It's not in her backyard. Right.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Great. Speaking of other contaminations, I'm thinking about taking up smoking again. I discussed this with Jake because apparently, if I walk outside, it's pretty much equivalent to having seven cigarettes. I mean, it's so terrible. So Jake said, why not sit inside and smoke?
SPEAKER_00Well, just for like the general ambiance of your home, I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_01I don't think I'll be doing that. But I was like, apparently the parts when the when the pollution is normal or like not hazardous, that is the equivalent of smoking a cigarette.
SPEAKER_00So I was like, yeah, no one told me that. It's so crazy. Well, I had said, so we have a wedding next weekend in Lake Placid, and it's yes.
SPEAKER_01I'm not I'm not recommending smoking, but I do miss it. Continue.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, so every now and again, one's fine. Yeah, yeah. Um, we have a wedding in Lake Placid, like upstate New York, and I'm like, it's really bad there. So I just Peter, and I'm like, I really hope these fires like dissipate by the end of the next one. I think they will. They should. So I I said, because it's really bad in Lake Placid. And he goes, Yeah, and I guess for all the Canadians. I was like, well, way to make me sound like an asshole. Like, of course the world is burning, and that's a whole separate issue.
SPEAKER_01Right, we'll have a conversation about that another time.
SPEAKER_00Orb wise. I hope it's cleared by the end of next week.
SPEAKER_01For the wedding.
SPEAKER_00Yes. For the wedding, for Matinaline's sake.
SPEAKER_01For Matinelaine's sake.
SPEAKER_00Anyway.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, so we like to start with our things. With our things. So we've got with our five things. So things we're loving. Things we're loving. I brought props.
SPEAKER_00You've really outdone me. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I'll just say that I am feeling the love for e.l.f. Elf is making some it's so cheap. Okay, first of all, this is their um like lip oil or whatever. Okay. Ready? I'm gonna put some on right here.
SPEAKER_00I thought they bought road, so well, I guess.
SPEAKER_01This is lovely. I also love that, which I couldn't find to bring to the pod because I put it in something and now I don't know where it is. That Laneige. Now I wish I had something on my lips. Um, the Laneige. Oh, yeah. Which is a lovely one. This is great. How long does it stay? It stays pretty good and it's not sticky at all. It doesn't catch in your hair. And it's like seven dollars. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's there's a swear by their brow gel. Yes.
SPEAKER_01This is like the dupe of the Armani liquid eyeshadow. Oh, which I hate. Now, I by the way. You what? I did not like the Armani one. Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_00I bought it to try for the wedding, and I think did I give you my?
SPEAKER_01No. I love it. I should give it to you. And I will say the only thing I'll say about it is it's a good, it's got like, you know, like I know what I'm talking about. I feel like it's got good color. You can see that. Yeah. The only thing is, and it does, well, this is a dark color shade that I got. It you have to work a little, I feel like a little faster. That's really a bad job of it. Uh to like blend it or it's to blend it or it's sets. Whereas I think the Armani gives you a little bit more time to work with it if you want to like rough it out. Again, seven dollars. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So and it's so funny to me that you're like, where where are you? Like in like Target buying elf makeup. Like, when is that on Amazon?
SPEAKER_01Because you saw it from something. No, I don't know. You know what? Because I I just gonna be bad if she ever listens to this. I accidentally came home with this, the elf. From when I stayed at Lori's. Sorry, Lori, if you're listening. I owe you a look.
SPEAKER_00This is my question to Lori, my aunt, that I love and adore so much. Like, how'd she end up with this?
SPEAKER_01I have no idea. When are you buying it? I I suppose I should return it to her or give her another one because I can't ended up coming home with it. And then it's I don't know how I decided to go look on Amazon for e.l.f. And then I saw the eyeshadows. I was like, oh, let me try that. So I tried two colors. This is this is my final thing. I got this when I was at that um Korean beauty place in um oh my god, I have heard of in Chinatown. Okay, it's the lightest, it's FPF 50. Is it tinted? No, it goes on like water, so it's like a white milky. I don't know if you can see. Oh, it kind of looks like um but it it's the one. It goes in there and just I love it. It's hilarious. It feels like nothing, no white cast, nothing. It's lovely. So I keep this by the door. So if when I go to walk outside with the dogs, I can pop that right on.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's good. Um I'm loving that you're prioritizing the sunscreen by the front door. So anything that we can do to further protection. Um, so that's what I'm loving. Those are my few items.
SPEAKER_01What about you?
SPEAKER_00What am I loving? Oh, we, I said we're going to Lake Placid. So we're driving up, we're bringing Tiny, and we're picking up two friends along the way.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00We have a five-seater car with a trunk. We used to drive a huge seven-seater where you could literally put like a small home inside of it, but we have downsized our car. So with Tiny's crate in the car, a little crowded. Well, there was no room for luggage. Oh, right. So we purchased, which are outrageously expensive, like roof racks. It's crazy how much it's like the overhead cabin of a plane.
SPEAKER_01I think we used to have them when we used to go to the outer banks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, that would be the only way that you would fit that stuff. Like, it's really kind of insane how you got like the hard one? The hard one. Yeah. It's pretty serious. I don't think we ever had that. I literally think it's so funny because like our car, it's considered an SUV, I guess, but it's kind of like on the slimmer, like smaller side.
SPEAKER_02More compact.
SPEAKER_00The fool almost looks silly on top of it. It's so big. Well, it fits it's gonna fit our luggage and their luggage because we, I mean, I guess we just shoved stuff in the car, but it would have been, it's kind of a hard drive. It just wouldn't have been enjoyable. So that was a good thought. Yeah, that was obviously my husband, but um, yeah, so I'm kind of loving that. It's making me feel like we have a way bigger car than we do. And like, because I'm always saying, you know, when we have, you know, multiple children, we will have to have a bigger car. And Peter's like, No, we won't. We got a thool. Yeah, there you go. Get three seats right back there. I know exactly. So um, so you're loving that. Loving the thole. What was our next things we're hating? Things we're hating. One second, because my husband needs his laptop that's in here, and I'm just gonna say that he can come get it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00What are we hating? I'm hating. There are so many things I want to say, but like I won't publicly broadcast.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_00So what am I hating? Am I hating anything recently that you can think of? I love you can't say anything like that we don't want publicized on the internet. Oh my god, I know my answer. Oh, great. We're having a fucking fly problem. Having a fly problem. Like, we're actually having a real issue that is gonna need to be tended to. My husband is like ordering every spray and like home rep. We're like setting up coming from. We cannot figure it out. So Randy, basically my mother-in-law, was basically like something is dead somewhere.
SPEAKER_01That's what I don't remember what our situation was. We had like the broken store line, but that was not the little gnat. No, no, these are not gnats, they're big flies, these are flies, like something dead. She's right, something is dead somewhere.
SPEAKER_00So disgusting, but like, wouldn't I my house doesn't smell like wouldn't I smell something if it was dead somewhere?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Peter's gonna clean the grill because it is right by our back door, and he's thinking maybe that like those smells, but it's too many, it's way too many to not be an actual problem. And that makes me would see them like hovering around the grill. That makes my house seem like it's dirty, and like I take great pride in the fact that my house is not at all dirty and like we're not dirty people, and it's really just it's not making it. Like, I'm like sitting in my beautiful living room that I love, and I like a fly fucking drive goes by me. And I'm like, I'm not sitting outside or like in the a cabin in the woods, I'm in my home.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm hating.
SPEAKER_01Um, what am I hating? I'm a little bit hating my planting for this year, which is very disappointing. Yeah, I'm sorry, that stinks. Because you've done it. Like my pots are good. My containers, my rectangular containers. Because you picked the wrong stuff, or like they're all dead. I don't think that the salvia should have been great and it should have been big and tall, and it's just like floppy and yes.
SPEAKER_00He, oh my god, the guy at the place, like in front of the giant parking lot that I was saying, they like pop it up on wood. He sold us salv, he sold us on salvia. He was like, put these in your rectangular planters, it's so great, it doesn't die and it will come back. It's like crunchy, musty nothingness. I really don't like it.
SPEAKER_01I'm really disappointed. Maybe it's bad this season, this year. I I don't know what happened, but all I know is I put one in one bed, one in the other. It was gonna be like sort of the centerpiece that would grow up and very disappointing. And I'm resisting the urge. Well, I'm going to, I just haven't done it yet. At this point, I was trying I cut it back, I tried to like revive it, I fertilized it, it's not going anywhere. And now it's like the middle of July. Are you just like replaced? I think I'm gonna pull it and bring maybe some other things over or just go buy something like a late summer bloom thing and put it in there because I'm very not like I'm like Miss Gardner, but no, but I also disappointing so hot. I know it's been bad. That things are just like dying. Yes, that's true. I mean, I've had to water way, you know, it's either a a deluge or speaking of deluge, it's just did they like did you want to up? You could say you hated what happened to you on Saturday, that would be a tricky. Oh my god. Do you want to tell everybody about your micro burst?
SPEAKER_00We had a storm here. I mean, the storm was on the east coast, I think. Like I think it wasn't like this massive big thing though, but it was a it rained over the weekend in places along the northern eastern coast, whatever. For whatever reason, literally, not even like my township, not even like my county, my town, which is quite small. Quite small, was hit with what is called a micro burst, which is essentially winds at the speed of tornado and like gusts of hail and rain, but it's just not whipping in a circle the way that a tornado does, it's whipping sh like back and forth. Was hit with a micro gust around 245 on Saturday afternoon. We live like in the Philadelphia area. So, like very historical, like these buildings have been around for hundreds of years, as well as the trees have been around for hundreds of years. These massive hundred-foot trees were pulling out of the ground and falling over onto houses and cars in my neighborhood. Meanwhile, this all happened within the span of 20 minutes. It looked like hurricane. It was absolutely I said, Oh, meanwhile, so we lost power at 245 on Saturday, and we did not get our power back until 11 p.m. on Sunday. And honestly, that was a win because other people didn't get it back until like Monday evening.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01That was on our walk. Right. That was definitely a win.
SPEAKER_00So it was absolutely insane. Thank God. The only thing we had was like a pitter patter of water in our basement. And Peter like grew up with like water issues and knew exactly what to do. You would literally never know that there was ever water in our basement. Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, that was not a pun.
SPEAKER_00Which pulls me to the maleness conversation and like my need for someone who can do things like that because I'm so inept in that way. You're not that bad. Like I would I wouldn't know what to do in that okay, but like you're pretty handy. No, I'm handy, but like in that moment, like he's like, get the dehumidifiers, get the thing, block this, drop them. I'm like, okay, great.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Because I'm like, oh God, we're gonna have to pay someone X amount of money to do all this. He's like, no worries.
SPEAKER_01Right, well, right. He's also not on pay somebody to do things.
SPEAKER_00Given that people can't live in their homes and like lost their cars, we got incredibly lucky. So it's a love-hate relationship, yeah, a great event.
SPEAKER_01My I was telling um my friend about um about that, and she said, I was like, oh, did you because her mom lives in Gladwin. I said, was she affected at all? She's like, oh, she was down the shore because she has she lives at the shore. And she was saying on July 4th, she was out somewhere on Long Island, heading out to the near Rivers, Riverside, what out on the beach, Hamptons. Anyway, they had bonfires going. They ended up like being their situation, ended up being on the news because like we they were warned, whatever storm approaching, wind gust picked up. What? Carried the lit logs and started fires along that portion. Oh my god, how did I not hear about that? I don't know. She said it was like in the local news in New York, but I was like, oh my god, well, that's not, that's like, you know, you gotta put that stuff out when they tell you like the fires like that. Yeah, it's going to mess around. No, it was she would say it was she said it was terrifying. Anywho, um, what are we watching?
SPEAKER_00We are currently watching Gray's Anatomy like randomly. I was kind of watching it as my in the background, like when I'm doing mindless tasks during the day, I would just like put it because I've seen it a million times. And then one afternoon I was watching it and Peter kind of like watched it with me. And then we just kind of got into it. I mean, we will obviously stop probably at like 10 or 12, like when the big things happen. But I don't know, it's fun to be honest. We like eat dinner, go on a walk, go upstairs. We end up watching like one episode of TV. It's not like we're like laying and watching an hour because then we go to sleep so early.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So it's like an easy waner, or like if we fall asleep, it's not a big deal. We don't go backwards, like that kind of a thing. That makes sense. In the summer, it's like easy. But you just said that you watched something that you liked.
SPEAKER_01We just finished the first season of The Agency, which I thought was very, very good. It's on Peacock. It's on or Paramount Plus. Paramount.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I do want to watch though the Ellen Hildebrand book movie came out with um Oh, did it? Jennifer Garner's in it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, right. Five days or something. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. I read that book. Me too. Yeah. I mean, it's very silly, but it'll be entertaining.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sure it'll be perfectly. It's um, who else is in it? Like Chloe Savigny or whatever her name is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Someone else. You didn't. Well, okay, so this leads into what are we reading?
SPEAKER_00I'm reading Cleopatra and Frankenstein because I like missed the wave the first time. I'm enjoying it. It's cute. It's quirky. Yeah, it's fun.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm reading this very old book because they literally not old, it's like they're talking about the heck is called Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, which is not the movie.
SPEAKER_00Yes, Mark told us to read it. Was this telling you to read it? Yes. I do want to read it, so I'm glad you bought it.
SPEAKER_01I didn't. I'll just give you the he has that old Kindle. I'll give it to you. Like with a thousand books on it. Um it's on there, so I'm reading it. I mean, it's good, it's like an interesting concept. It's all about like sort of like this, you know, like a political, super secret, off-government, off grid entity that's basically going to own all the kind of like apropos of like all AI stuff, all the knowledge and data and everything. I remember people are gonna have to pay to have access to it. So it's sort of very prescient in that way. I'm enjoying it. I wouldn't say it's like, oh my god, the greatest book I've ever read, but I'm enjoying it. You know what I want. Remember those people out there who said into the blue was amazing. I don't know who you are, but you're wrong. I'm just gonna come out and say that.
SPEAKER_00And I did not like that book. You you advised strongly against. When I had no power, it was the only book that was downloaded on my Kindle. So I did read like probably 50 pages of it and I never picked back up. But yeah, what I do want to read is the Hunger Games book that just came out. Well, I didn't know a new book came out. Yeah, it's like Hamish's games. It's like a whole thing, and it's a there's a movie coming out in like two, like a week or two weeks or something. Okay. I don't think. So I really want to read it before I see the movie. Maybe we should go see the movie together because I know Peter won't go. I'll go. Okay, good. Um, and then lastly, our last thing on our side notes quest is things that we're listening to.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. I am currently obsessed with the new Houndmouth um album. For those of you who know Houndmouth, they're back better than ever. Um, the band sort of reformed. This the original like main guy is still there, but then I think everybody else is new. We saw them when we were at Railbird, and I just think they sound great. And I'm excited to experience some new music because next weekend I'm going to Newport. Yes, you are. And there will be lots of did you what is it? C C Mat? Are you familiar? I can't see it. Maya told me I would like it. It's like C-M-A-T. I don't know it. I don't know it either. Oh, it's I don't know. It's a it's a band. I think it's a woman, but she was saying that I like it. So I'm, you know, interested in checking that out. That's yeah, this is apparently Olivia Rodrigo covered one of her songs.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I don't know who she is. I'm really, I can't wait to hear about Haley Williams and Lauren Hill, obviously, but like I think Lauren Hill will very oh when a good man cries is the song that Olivia Rodrigo covered.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, I don't know. I'll have to take a listen. I'm very interested to see what the story with Lauren Hill is gonna be. I mean, because she's sort of known to be like an incredible diva.
SPEAKER_00Totally, but she just got she was just like honored at the BT Awards, maybe I don't know what it was. Um they did this like amazing, incredible Toon Day went. Like homage to her, like um Siza, I think, and Doja Cat and Dochi Nas came out. Like they did all these incredible Nods her daughter sang, and then she was not supposed to perform. She was like very adamant about the fact that she was not going to perform, and then she ended up performing. I think she's in kind of like her like legend era.
SPEAKER_01Well, I hope so. I mean, the only thing I will say is Newport, as you experience, runs like I know. You're you go on when you're supposed to go on, you go off when you're supposed to go off. And if you don't go on when you're supposed to go off, and if you don't go on, you don't go on. Right, you still go off, like you don't get extra time, nobody's making any exceptions. I mean it doesn't mess around. Jay with Jay, Jay Sweet. Um, they run that thing like a pretty tight chip. So yeah, and look, I'm sure her people know they've been told, so hopefully it will be. I'm just so interested because she's she goes on and actually overlaps a little bit with Haley Williams.
SPEAKER_00Where where is Haley Williams on the big and she's on the total opposite side? Correct. That's annoying. As long as it's not like torrential downpouring the way that it did last year. That's we were hiding in tunnels.
SPEAKER_01No, let's hope that does not have sheltering in place. Let's hope that does not happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, speaking of legends, I have been on a Jay-Z kick because of his big three-day extravagans at Yankee Stadium. So I've been listening to a lot of reasonable doubt. And I I mean, like Magna Carter and 445. Isn't he coming out with a documentary?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I think some, I think they were, I saw like a clip and it looked like he was, I'd be interested in that. I think he's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00He's absolutely fantastic. He's so solidified legend. There's nothing that you, I mean, you know, I don't I'm not sure he's such the like the best guy, but I like to believe that he is, even though there's evidence to the contraire.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00A contrary. But we sometimes, you know, dad always used to say you have to be able to separate the artist from the art.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely have to separate the artist from the art.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I have a hard time with, but others.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think like with some people, yes, with some people, no. Like right. So it's basically to your own. I don't know that like I want to give money to Ryan Adams. I have a fly in here.
SPEAKER_02That's disturbing.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I know just it's all it's all to feed your own agenda at the end of the day. Like, you just gotta pick and choose.
SPEAKER_01Although I do think we went to see him after all that stuff came out. Well, dad was very oh Howie.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying, like, dad was very like the music's out there, listen to it. Right. You don't have to like speak his eulogy. Right. Agree.
SPEAKER_01But right. Anyway, yeah. So I I believe that. I mean, look, you know, who knows what people are. That's why dad always always said he never wanted to meet anybody. Like, because you don't want to like who wants to really know what that person is like.
SPEAKER_00And Camille and I always say this like, to be famous like that, like you have something has to be a little bit off about you. Or if it isn't, it becomes right. Like you you go one way or the other, right? Not us. So we'll take fame very well when this.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm I'm sure we'll be fine. Don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00We have plenty of people to humble us.
SPEAKER_01So not to worry. No doubt. Um, okay. Well, those are our five things. Those are our five things.
SPEAKER_00I'm also adding that this was our bedroom. We recently moved to a different part of our going. Good. Good. But when our bed, this is a queen bed, like our guest bedroom. When our bed was in here, you couldn't see that out white ass outlet. And I like forced Peter to color drench this room and like paint the trim, and he was real and the doors, and he was like really against that. But I didn't have to do the outlets because you couldn't see them at the time. I'm now wishing we painted the outlets because that's really bothering me.
SPEAKER_01But I'm sorry. Anyway, um, our topic of the day. Our topic of the day is are you it well, are you or whatever, a people please the thought of being a people pleaser. Yeah, like what's your relationship to a people pleaser? Are you one? How do you feel about them? What do you think it means? Okay, so I'm gonna give you the definition because I looked it up. I really I was I came prepared.
SPEAKER_00I love how prepared you are.
SPEAKER_01So a people pleaser is someone who, now, these are this is not my, this is what I read, constantly put puts needs, opinions, and desires of others ahead of their own, often out of deep fear of rejection or caught conflict. While appearing incredibly kind and helpful, they frequently neglect their own boundaries or well-being to seek external validation. Questions you can ask yourself are do you have difficulty saying no? Do you change your opinions to match those of others? Do you avoid conflict? So now I feel like with that definition, I'm not. I feel like I'm not same, but I feel like I am same.
SPEAKER_00So here, let's break it down.
SPEAKER_01Here, let me convince now let me tell you how much of a people pleaser I am now.
SPEAKER_00Um I will say outside of my immediate family, husband, mom, brother, and like a swearing few people, I have a hard time saying no. I used to be better about it. Like I had a situation come up recently, and I'm not gonna get into like the details of it, but I off the jump when I was asked about it, said yes. And then as I thought about it, I was like, why would I ever get myself into this situation? It was causing me like immense anxiety. I was freaking out.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And it ended up working out that the thing, I couldn't even do it anyway. But like I read, I read the text message and immediately responded yes. Like I didn't even like think through it for three seconds because I was like, I'm being invited to do something. The answer's yes. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's it should be yes.
SPEAKER_00Or that would be rude if it wasn't. Why would I say no?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I'm always thinking to myself, like, I don't want to be rude. And it's like, but it's not rude if you're up front.
SPEAKER_01It's hard though. I know it's so I mean, this was ended up not. I said same thing. I had a situation where I was invited to something and I was kind of like, I mean, it I went and it ended up being fine. Which also happens, which I think is a benefit, which is good, and it's good. But like sometimes I'm like, why did I like say that I was gonna do this? I mean, I will say, because grandma will never hear this, this is not a people pleaser thing. I get this is not a people pleaser thing. This is just me coming up with a great idea and now deciding that's gonna be a pain in the ass. So it's not really the same thing. That's a little different. But yes, I think you have to honor your gut. I think you have to like listen to yourself when like you're like, uh, I don't really want to do that. Now, it's okay, I think, to say yes to things or to people or whatever the situation is when you don't absolutely right. Maybe you don't have like immediate anxiety. Like that to me is like that is a a some, that is a boundary, that is something in your gut, that is an instinct you should listen to. Sometimes it's okay to force yourself out of your out of your comfort zone. But the question is, why are you doing it? Like, are you doing it because you don't want to like whatever? You don't want to disappoint the other person, or you want to, you know, like when you said you were going to do whatever with those people, friends on the, you know, that live in the area, and you're like, I don't know why I said yes to the coffee or a walk or whatever. Yeah. I was like, no, it's good for you. You should like go and meet new people because sometimes you don't always do that. The question is, like, is it there's I feel like there's like a line, it's not quite the same as people pleaser under that definition, because I feel like I don't know that either one of us really like avoids like conflict, not avoid conflict at all. And like you're although I do think, look, everybody likes to be liked.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, I'm just trying to think, like, I'm thinking of the specific example that I'm talking about, and I'm wondering if I was like in my immediate yes, was I saying immediately yes because that's what I think is the definition of a good friend, and I always want to be perceived and seen as a good friend, or was I saying yes because I think you say yes to things, like you know what I'm saying? Like I can't, I guess they're kind of two sides of the same coin.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's uh yes and no, but like if you're saying yes because you're like this is you say yes to these things because you're supposed to, because this makes you a good friend, then I would say and look, sometimes even if you don't want to do the thing, you still say yes because you're being a good friend. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Live in a different thing growing up, especially like when we were in high school and when we started driving and we had stuff that we needed to do or wanted to do, and we didn't want to do it alone. Sometimes we still say, but we don't utilize it as much because we're not together. Is this a friendship thing? Like she would say that she wanted to go wait in line for the Call of Duty game at midnight. And clearly that's not something that I wanted to do. But like she would say, This is a friendship thing. And I would say, Right, okay, like period.
SPEAKER_01But that's not like uh right.
SPEAKER_00That's not uh, that's not the same as doing used to be better at not being people pleasy. Like I basically hit a point my junior year of high school where I just like kind of decided that I didn't want to go out anymore. And like my friends would literally go out and then come back to our house. Like I was, I had no problem saying no. And now I feel like I would feel not it's not even like a FOMO. It's like a I would feel like I have No, it's not FOMO.
SPEAKER_01It's like you feel like you feel like people will think poorly of you.
SPEAKER_00Poorly. Or like or not like you or like you a little less. Yeah, or like I'll yeah, be like looked at weird. So I how are you in that in saying no?
SPEAKER_01Do you say no in that way? I don't think I think that to me, that's the people pleasing thing I think I do do. Like I don't, I don't I I I I I say yes because it's like how do you when somebody's like, hey, do you wanna let's you're like, of course, you know, I get a text from a friend that I don't really care that much about like it's not like I never want to see them again, but like it's not high on my list. Right.
SPEAKER_00Or you're they're like, do you want to like reorganize your life to see this person?
SPEAKER_01Which they're gonna do. And then they reach out and then you what are you supposed to say? I'd rather I don't know. I don't have time. What I mean, what like you can be like, oh, I'm busy that week or whatever if you are, but at a certain point, the answer is either I don't want to do that, like I don't want to spend that time, or and I feel like I don't know how I don't know how you nicely ever do that. If somebody is like, let's get together.
SPEAKER_00I never do that either.
SPEAKER_01How do you unless you're lying? I mean, unless you just let it sort of like you know, you sort of like avoid, avoid, avoid. Can you get together Wednesday? No, I can't. I'm busy and like don't suggest another time. Right, but at some point somebody's gonna be like, I mean, I guess if they never suggest another time, but it's but also to your point, in the situations where like how do you unfriend somebody you don't really want to be friends with anyone?
SPEAKER_00But is it that you don't want to be friends, or just like you don't care to put the effort in when it's not 100% convenient to you? Because like, I'm not saying that in a negative way, but there are people that are gonna be in your life, not you specifically.
SPEAKER_01No, you're 100% right. If if Amy was like, I'm in town for three hours, right? I would be like, tell me where to be in.
SPEAKER_00I literally just canceled my dinner plans on Saturday because Liv was like, I'm gonna be in town. And I was like, okay, I'll I'll be wherever you are, because there are people in my life, a select few intentionally.
SPEAKER_01But somebody else coming into town, I might be like, Oh, I'm sorry, I can't dinner plans with my brother and my husband, but still, it's the plan was made.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, in the most respectful way, my husband is not a people pleaser, he's never rude, he is like has more manners than I could ever dream to have. Like, he's the most respectful person, but he is very good and he has helped me. Like, you can say no, you don't have to do that thing, or like you know, he pushes me where I think it's necessary, like in the case of our neighbors. Right. Go. We you want to have girlfriends, right? Of course, and he's correct, and I'm so glad I went. He's like, I love these girls that I met. Right, it's so great. But like in other situations, like the one that I got myself into, and then I it ended up working out that I couldn't go. He was like, Why did you say that you would go to that? There's no expectation that you would go to something like that. It's absolutely unnecessary. And it's hard to have that mindset, but I do think it's really important.
SPEAKER_01I do. I mean, it is.
SPEAKER_00I just think it's very So is that male-female?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I do think there is a little bit of male-female there. Um, I think that I think that, you know, look, there's no question that women are. I mean, I hate to say this and like, don't come at me people and hate me for this, but like traditionally, women are taught like to put everybody else's needs ahead first and take care of. And so you don't, you don't that's that just because it's in that context, like taking care of your family, taking care of your kids, whatever it is, you don't you have a a desire, there is a built-in desire to please not desire or like feeling of a need to please and to have other people okay with you. And like have people not, I mean, who wants to not be liked? But I don't even think it's like not be liked.
SPEAKER_00It it goes a a step farther than like not being liked. It's like you want to be liked, like you know what I'm saying? Yes, there's no neutrality in it, right? But also I'm wondering, is it because stereotypically don't come at me, blah blah blah? Like all the disclaimers from the world, all the disclaimers that I can possibly say, yeah. Like I'm I'll go women, woo. Um like, is it because stereotypically, like maybe we would have our feelings hurt a little bit more than a man would in hearing no? Like it's the other side of rejection. So in the situation where I was saying no to someone inviting me to something, like I also don't want to hurt that person's feelings, whereas like possibly when a man is saying no to something, they don't want to worry that much about it. Well, because from their own experience, like they're not gonna have their feelings hurt if someone says no to them. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, look, there's definitely I mean, and it's not exclusively a gender thing, but I do think there's gender is a component to it.
SPEAKER_00I also think um I guess I'm not sure if this is like along the same line as people pleasing, but like there are a select few group of people who like I want to, and whether that's like selfishly motivated or selflessly motivated, I can't actually decide. Like I want to be the person that they think of when they need someone. So that means I'm gonna show up all the time because like I I would like to solidify myself as that person because I want to be that support for those people. I don't think that's selfish.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I want to be the person who wants to, but like in what in like wouldn't they be that you're the same for you? Yeah, I mean, like do you have different like do you show up differently for people than you expect them to show up for you? I mean, yes, the answer is I think obviously everybody has that situation. And and I think we show up differently for different people.
SPEAKER_00We do, but we talk about this all the time, and it's maybe a spawn off of this conversation. But like I I show up for people without expectation that they are gonna show up for me in the same way, or I try very hard because when you hold the expectation that people are gonna show up for you the way that they that you show up for them, like you are 99% of the time disappointed.
SPEAKER_02Do you agree?
SPEAKER_01And that I mean, but like right, no, I agree with you, but I'm saying, do you think everybody has that experience? I think no. Because if everybody was walking around thinking they showed up better than the other person, than other people do, then we would be all showing up really well for all of us. Or we would not be showing up at all, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Because like you give up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't I don't know how that like shakes out, but I feel like I think there are certain people that, and I think it's very interesting because I I I know myself, I definitely show up differently for like different because I have a wide group of friends. Yeah, you have a lot more friends than I have, to be fair. And and I and I show up differently for all of some of them. I I really like, you know, like I said, you know, Amy comes into town, Amy wants me to come to New York. I'm you know, it's like I'm not thinking twice about it. Right. There are other people that I'm like, they're more peripheral. Like they invite me to something, I'm like, that's they don't really want to be like we're like no, it's fine. I think culture where it's like I think it'd be bad if you felt like you needed to show up like that for everybody in your life.
SPEAKER_02I don't have a lot of I always say this, like I don't have a lot of friends.
SPEAKER_00I have specific best. I know that best, I get that it doesn't make sense to say best friends plural. No, it does one, but I have like my closest friends, right? And like I I'm trying actually to broaden my friend category because I only have people that I show up for 100%. I have less people in my life. I'm starting to grow that. Yes, you are, but like even still, I'm fine, I find myself like going a little bit over, over, and not like in an inappropriate way, but like just in ways that are unnecessary, and I do think are fueled by this need to be like light, seen as that person.
SPEAKER_01Right. Interesting. Which is so it's very interesting because you that is a that's not a thing that I would normally associate with you. I know it is very strange.
SPEAKER_00But I also think because I kind of was always that person naturally growing up, especially like in my friend group. Like I mean, I I struggled like in middle school friend wise, but like once we kind of settled that seventh, eighth grade, like eighth grade through high school, like I was always kind of the like that's my personality, like maternal right. Well, that's famous me. Whatever. Right. Like that's my personality. And I maybe because all of my friends, for the most part, are not like I don't have like Liv has a group of like 15 college friends, like they're all in one friend group. I don't really have friends like that anymore. I have like friends from here, friends from there. Like I have like maybe a group of two here and a group of two there, literally. But I think maybe I'm like seeking that role, but just like with individual people.
SPEAKER_02So that's how I do it. I don't know. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_01I mean, look, I think as long as you are protective of yourself and don't over well, it's just hard to, you know, not don't overextend, don't feel like you're being like giving not that you have to get back and there you don't you shouldn't be counting and like measuring and you know situations. But as long as you feel fulfilled and satisfied in that relationship, whatever the extent of it is, I think it's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But again, like going back to the original example of, you know, if you have like sort of like that visceral, like, ugh, I don't really want to do this, don't do it. That's you know, that I think is not necessarily that is a, you know, you got to listen to that. I think it's a fine line between, you know, pushing yourself sometimes because I think it's good to push yourself.
SPEAKER_00Right. But there is a difference between like pushing yourself because you're like being lazy or whatever, and then like having like an energy, not to get like spiritual, but having like an energetic feeling that something is not correct for you.
SPEAKER_01Like you 100% to always listen to that.
SPEAKER_00And it's so interesting because I am so, which is probably like a little bit bad, but like I'm the opposite of that, like in my relationship, like my mind. Your image. Like, I I'm not a people pleaser in my marriage.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I don't believe that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's not like I don't do what I want to do, I do, but like, you know, maybe just because of the way that Peter is, like, it's very much like what what I want.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because he's like whatever Leah says.
SPEAKER_00Right. Which, like, maybe I'm having this. You know what they say? Happy wife, happy life. Right. Well, he he's a very good example at home, but um I'm wondering if it like maybe I sought that out because I'm so exhausted of like playing this. I mean, like, I can't imagine if I was like always trying to make sure that I was like doing exactly what Peter, like it's one thing with your friends, like you don't, you're not with them all the time. Right, right. Peter all the time.
SPEAKER_01Like if I was always But do you think he finds it exhausting? No. Because maybe he's not viewing it as the task that you're describing it as he just, I mean, Mark and I have this conversation all the time because he's like, I, you know, even with like stupid television, he's like, What do you want to watch? I'm like, I don't know, what do you want to watch? He's like, whatever you want to watch.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, No, literally, Peter's like texting me today about something that like is his in division of labor in our home, like it's it's that's him. That's his thing that he handles. And he's like, Well, what do you want to do? I'm like, I don't know, like I'm behind you on this, whatever you want to do.
SPEAKER_01But it is a little bit, he's wants to do whatever you want to do, but also he doesn't want to be wrong. Right.
SPEAKER_00True, because he knows his wife, right?
SPEAKER_01But I will say, um, it's nice when you, I don't know that everybody has that. It's nice to have a partner whose main interest is making you happy.
SPEAKER_00And just like making sure that everything is like as the way that you want it to be. Right. It's very lucky, but that's not even the topic of the conversation. I just think it's interesting that it's different in different relationships. Like, yes, I obviously don't people please with you.
SPEAKER_01I people please with you. No. Well, maybe I'm finding out that a lot of people people please with me. I'm gonna say, I don't know if that's people please. I'm gonna say, and it's different now, but like when you were growing up, everybody was like, whatever Leah wants.
SPEAKER_00You were such a you know what's so funny? Like my in-laws, my dark things.
SPEAKER_01I think sometimes that I, you know, like with you, I I like, you know.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure he does. I mean, clearly that's been a motif in our life. And like, I mean, Jake doesn't like when I say this, but like talk about someone who did everything that they possibly could to make sure that I was like 100% satisfied at all times. Dad. Yes. Like I say he worshipped the ground that I walked on. Jake doesn't like when I say that, but I think it's true.
SPEAKER_01Um, but his daughter, he should have.
SPEAKER_00I know, right? I don't know what I was just gonna say, but it was gonna be something. Oh, my in-laws who like I have the best in-laws, but they can't believe that I was like that growing up.
SPEAKER_01You're such a different person.
SPEAKER_00I know. How lovely.
SPEAKER_01Back to my fantastic wedding speech that I was a little drunk for, where I said, What a different person you are. I know it's very true.
SPEAKER_00I'm you know, they say if they make you better, you're supposed to keep them around.
SPEAKER_01So 100%. Um, but yeah, so I think the people pleasing is I think the definition that I found is not how I look at what we do.
SPEAKER_00Well, but I mean, I guess it is a little bit. It's just we're we're both balking at confrontation, and you and I are both good at confrontation because we're strong communicators, right? Right.
SPEAKER_01But the other one, you know, not wanting to like, you know, hurt some I to me, it's more like you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.
SPEAKER_00You don't want to reject disliked, which is the fear of rejection. I guess that's right. And I do think that that is the leading, maybe because I feel like I lived my life like being perceived kind of as like a bitch growing up. You said it I didn't. Yeah, well, I was I was a bitch, not even just perceived as one. But maybe I'm like going, I want to like reverse that so badly. Like maybe I don't want to be seen as that anymore. Whereas I don't really see where the people pleasing comes from in you. Like I just want to be.
SPEAKER_01I'm always, but I'm always the person. I'm always the person.
SPEAKER_00You're the person, you're the person in your siblings, you're the person in your friends. Like you're obvious, but that it's interesting though, because I would say like that comes with being like a mom, but like obviously all those other people are also moms, like someone's gotta be the one.
SPEAKER_01Just my person.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's just like the matriarch of matriarchs. Yeah, it's just who I am. It's just who you are, and I definitely feel as though it's not a bad thing. No, I think for the most part, especially outwardly, it's a great thing. It just can lead to a little bit of like burnout and possible disappointment on your own end.
SPEAKER_01100%. I hear that. I feel that. Yeah, sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. And sometimes, and I love me my people, so I loves me my people.
SPEAKER_00I do think that it can, and this is maybe a conversation for another day because this has been quite the episode. 52 minutes, but sometimes, especially I think when you're younger, it can mean like the dissolution of friendships, depending on yes, where that disappointment lies and like how people feel.
SPEAKER_01I agree with that. So okay. Good talk. Hi, puppy. Um, good talk. Good talk. We had so much direction. Go up. I like it. Go us. Um, all right. More to come. More to come. We're so excited.
SPEAKER_00More things and yeah, more things and more topics and more side notes because we're always going off on little tangents. I didn't like realize how good of a name this was for us.
SPEAKER_01And yes, it really is.
SPEAKER_00Because we go, we talk in yes, mazes.
SPEAKER_01We do. Um okay. Well, see ya.
SPEAKER_00Love you. Bye.
SPEAKER_01Bye.