Ragamuffin Circus

Tim sits down with Dr. Eric Sandras ("Dr. E") — pastor, professor, and author of The Ragamuffin Circus — to talk about what a life spent on the margins has taught him about God, grace, and belonging.

Eric's journey has taken him from a small timber town in Washington state to the streets of LA, Las Vegas, and now the underserved corners of Colorado Springs — working alongside people coming out of addiction, gang life, homelessness, and more. Along the way, he didn't just minister to people. He learned from them.

In this conversation, Eric shares the philosophy behind Sanctuary Church — a community built on the idea that people shouldn't have to keep secrets — his formula for healthy growth, and why he believes the church should feel more like a recovery room than a courtroom.

He also digs into his new book, The Ragamuffin Circus, a honest and personal look at what people on the edges of society have taught him about God, himself, and others. Deeply shaped by the legacy of Brennan Manning, it's the kind of book that stays with you.

For more info on Dr. E's book and other resources go to:

- Book: Ragamuffin Circus

- Church: The Sanctuary Church 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're here in the studio today with Eric Sandress, who's known as Dr. E. He's my good friend. He's a pastor, professor. He's married to Cindy. They've started the Sanctuary Church. It's a beautiful mess where marginalized recovering misfits know they belong. He's also helped launch a ministry called Hope COS, which is a sober living project that houses people and provides shelter on Colorado's coldest nights. He also teaches at a local university, speaks nationwide about grace, the margins, how to journey with the suffering. Eric and I have traveled some. We've been at refugee camps, we've been at conferences. Eric has been all over the world helping churches and ministries. So welcome, Eric. Happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Well, Tim, I'm just so excited to be on your podcast. What a what an honor, especially after last week listening to Pete Kuiper. Wow. It's so good to work with you. I just I love your stuff, Tim. I love your heart and your ministry. So we want to promote your new book. I did just put out a book, uh, The Ragamuffin Circus. It's my fifth book. And they often say that an author's last book, and I really think this will probably be my last book, is the one you should always read because it kind of is a summation of somebody's life and experiences and wisdom that they've gathered. And this last, especially 12, 15 years of my life working with the margins has taught me so much. The subtitle of the book is actually what the margins teach us about God, ourselves, and others. So it's not a big virtue posting book where I just tell a bunch of stories about, hey, look how great I am. It's actually looking at what people have taught me. And it stems a lot. If the title Ragamuffin Circus sounds familiar to your listeners, it's because it is unapologetically dedicated to Brennan Manning and his influence in my life. The introduction's actually titled Brennan Manning Saved My Marriage. We had an ongoing relationship in which he uh worked on me and straightened up some things in my my heart and my doctrine and my life. My goal is I just want people to keep reading Brennan Manning even more than my book.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

That's awesome. So, what is unique about the Sanctuary Church?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Uh, you know, I I think Tim just mentioned it. I don't think the church should be a courtroom. And a lot of times that's what it ends up being where we judge people's behaviors, we try to get them fixed right away. I I don't think the church should be a museum where everybody's perfect behaviors are on display. Um, it definitely needs to be more like a recovery room where they're not there to display perfection, they're there just to get healed. Yeah, you can't love people from a distance. And Jesus practiced the ministry of proximity. He was involved in people's lives. And I think it was John Lynch that once said this what if it was less important that people got fixed and more important that they didn't have to have a secret. And that's really been the foundational philosophy of what we've tried to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So you have a formula for growth that you quote quite a bit. Uh tell us that formula.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Uh okay, formula for growth, that's an interesting phrase. But we have had this working philosophy around here since the beginning. And it goes like this healthy things grow, growing things change. Change brings pressure. Pressure should produce prayer. Prayer is what keeps you healthy, and healthy things grow. Now, outside of the church realm, I rephrase that a little bit for a lot of people that work in nonprofits and secular kind of things, but I'll just say change brings pressure, and pressure should keep you focused on your values. And your values are what keeps you healthy. I believe that the call of the church is to be people that pursue the presence of God. A lot of that comes through prayer. A lot of that comes, Tim, even as things that you articulate in in your podcast and in your ministry about building healthy foundations for growth. And a lot of that is seeking God and being in a place that you can be still and not just working a formula. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

And how did you develop your passion for people on the margins?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

That passion started really with Cindy's and my first church plant out in Port Angeles, Washington. It was a small timber fishing town surrounded by five sovereign Native American nations. Uh, most people didn't graduate high school out there. It had the second highest methane amphetamine addiction rate per capita in the nation. That church grew by 50% conversion, and about a third of it was an active narcotics anonymous recovery programs. I learned by listening, I learned by getting involved in people's lives there. Just because I was never addicted to a narcotic doesn't mean I wasn't addicted to something. And so being around people who were being transformed by their higher power, people that were willing to start with step one and say that a part of my life has become unmanageable is the opening of that kind of door. That and then I moved to LA. I was the recovery pastor and teaching pastor of a fourth house-member church. But there I began working with people coming out of gangs, people in the porn industry. LA County produces and distributes more pornography than any other city in the world combined. Wow. But people in that industry were also coming to a point of step one, like their life had become unmanageable, their sexual boundaries had been just obliterated, and they were coming to recovery meetings, finding Christ, finding hope, healing, and freedom again in their lives. And then I moved to Las Vegas, the same situation. There's not a vice or addiction you can't find an excess there. And working in recovery there just kept me exposed to people. Our recovery meeting out there ran 250 people every Friday night, 60 of which were teenagers. And again, just being in proximity to people who were willing to be transparent was transforming me. And I think it all coalesced here on the dark side of Colorado Springs and Manatee Springs, where there's more covens than churches, lots of heroin problems out here. I've learned a lot from now the homeless population, immigrant populations, under resource family populations.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah. Love your heart. I think everybody should read your book. What's the best way for people to learn more, to connect with you, to get your resources?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

You can go to ragamuffincircus.com and that'll have a link. The book is available on all platforms. It's available in audio on Barnes and Noble and anything but Amazon, but the printed version is available everywhere. And so they can do that. They can also look at tscwest.org. That's the church's website. And you can also get hold of me through there. I think I'm on Instagram and stuff like that, but I'm old and I'm still learning how to do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So that is awesome. Well, we'll probably have you in the studio again sometime because there's a lot more conversations that we can have. Um, but check out the website. We'll have the links to that. But Eric, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us. Love you, man. You're a brother in Christ. Glad to be on this journey with you. Love you too, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Thank you so much.