"If Your Data Strategy Doesn’t Change Behaviour, It’s Just Wallpaper."

This episode dives into the real work behind building a data strategy that actually changes behaviour inside a local authority. Lucy Lynch speaks with Simone Thomas, Data Insights Lead at Cheshire West and Chester Council, about the council’s transformation journey.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hello and welcome. I am Lucy Lynch, Chief of Staff at Omnia Digital. And today on the podcast, we're diving into one of the most important and often misunderstood parts of organisational transformation, which is building a data strategy that actually works in the real world. And today I'm joined by the amazing Simone Thomas, Data Insights Lead at Cheshire West and Chester Council. Simone has been at the heart of shaping how the council uses data to make better decisions, improve services, and build a culture where insight is part of everyday practice rather than an afterthought. And in this conversation, we explore what it really takes to design a data strategy inside a local authority, the foundations, the cultural shifts, the unexpected challenges we might happen upon, and the lessons learned on the way. Simone brings a really grounded practical perspective that cuts through the jargon and gets to the heart of what meaningful data work looks like. Whether you're working in the public sector, leading a data team, or simply just curious about how organisations turn ambition into action, this episode is full of wisdom you can take straight into your own context. So let's get into it. Welcome Simone. You have been at Cheshire West and Chester Council for over a decade. I was reading about, and we've known each other for almost as long as that. And we've worked together with the nurture programme for many years successfully. Can you tell me what the data landscape was like at the very beginning when you joined Cheshire West?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yes, hi Lucy. Nice to join you. I was reflecting on this before I joined the call with you. And I think COVID was a huge game changer, as lots of us discovered. My background is in IT. I've worked through technology services in local governments for my whole career, which is quite lengthy now. And I think it's become it quickly became apparent during COVID that technology has to underpin everything we can achieve with data. It doesn't drive the insights, it doesn't do the really true analytical part, but it is absolutely fundamental to helping us bring that data together and work with it in an effective way. So during COVID, obviously everybody was absolutely flat out delivering the response and data about the response, how many people were we supporting, how many people were at risk and were vulnerable. And the effort was huge. Teams were literally working around the clock. And a lot of the technology challenges the teams were having were things like laptops were crashing, the data sets were too big, everything was on-prem. So we didn't have the scalability of the cloud hosting option at the time. Loads of the work was manual. We didn't have as much Power BI across the authority at that point. All the modelling tools are available. And so that was quickly sort of given to me as a delivery piece. So I stood up a data engineering team, very, very small data science team as well, which is where we got to work together on the nurture programme. And we have been on a journey of changing, upgrading and modernising our technology platform to really then help our digital data strategy fly. So we've been doing huge digital improvements. But my focus was specifically about how those technical improvements can improve our work with data. So fast forward three, four years, I've lost count. We've got Power BI rolled out across the organisation. I've delivered a data hive academy, so we have a huge number of people across the authority working with Power BI looking to us for training and guidance and support. We've delivered training apprenticeships in data as well. We've got over 100 staff on the apprenticeship programme at different levels. And that has really put us in a great position to be building our data strategy alongside all of that technical work. We've also engaged a partner called ItelligentEye to help us deliver some automated reporting for adult social care specifically. And that was all driven around the CQC inspection regime that's been introduced for adult social care. And they also supported us with a business intelligence review. And that was a fundamental part of our strategy to really drive out all of the services and what they really needed from their data. What were they struggling to get to? What was causing them problems day to day? And that service engagement with individual interviews and workshops has really collated a huge amount of information about what our data program needs to look like. So I think in terms of change, that's the journey we've been on. Yeah. To sort of get us to a place where we can really deliver some amazing data work in a much easier way and more automated way.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Fantastic. And I think I know that you touched upon and said, you know, it was like it was a technology that needed to be upgraded to be implemented to kind of like, you know, but we but you also spent a lot of time talking about the people, right? And the skills and the training. So they and I and I know obviously, you know, work with work with you many years ago, and it was like very much about, I thought it was also quite radical that you were choosing to look at the data engineering aspect first when a lot of people were focusing on data science, but you were very uh considered and intentional about the data engineering practice. And you know, I I almost think that you you're almost like visionary in in, you know, I'm not not in the kind in a in a really amazing way because I I thought it was very uh unique because a lot of people, like I said, were focusing on data science, but you seem to really understand before it was really fashionable to have so so much data engineering, which we really know has to unpin underpin all the great work, obviously, that's happening in automation and AI, you know, now. So I think, and I know we've had conversations before saying all that data engineering we did was now built a really good solid foundation. And I just wonder, could you just unpick slightly just for other, you know, of local authorities that might be going through a similar sort of journey as well? Is that what was it that that made you think this is where we need to put our resources?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Because uh you know, the analogy, sort of lipstick on a pig, you know, all of that kind of thing about fancy Power BI dashboards, um, from a data science point of view, you know, we really struggled to get that up and running. You know, we had a shared service arrangement for our IT at that point in time as well, and and having that conversation and brokering that discussion about setting up virtual machines and working with Python, and you know, we got some challenge and that was that was difficult, but I did it. You know, we got there. Um, but from a data engineering point of view, um, I think again, it was it was sort of moving deck chairs to but be quite clever with what we were able to achieve. So I think we recognized there was some technical expertise, but perhaps in the wrong teams. Yeah. So we pulled that together. Um, you know, again, we know we're not talking huge numbers, you know, you can make a huge difference with just the right people in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Um, so yeah, it was about focusing skills in the right in the right place on the right activities, um, and then also upskilling in other areas as well, because we still had a lot of Excel, you know, a lot of reporting was done in Excel. Services weren't engaging with that approach because Excel's hard and it's not, you know, it's not visual, it's not pretty, um, and it's difficult and unwieldy, data quality issues and all of that. So we needed to tap into that technical expertise of people who really knew their SQL, had the ability to pick up the Python, knew Excel, inside out and back to front, you know, DAX, Power Query, all of those sorts of capabilities, um, and and focus them on the right things that were going to make a difference. And that was the critical point for me, being able to direct the work that was happening in that team on I suppose that those skills didn't get diluted on just all of the demand that was coming through from services. Oh, I want the view of this and I want to see that and I want a report of the other thing. It's like, well, actually, with engagement with our directors, understanding what they needed to see as a priority, I could focus the team on those critical things and make a big difference in a relatively short space of time. Um, so yeah, for me, the people, it it's that people business process, yeah, business technology triangle, isn't it? Is those three elements really.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Absolutely. And I think that's really, really key as well, is that you know, what what you just said about um making sure that you stick to a plan, that you work out from senior leadership team, what it is that they need to see, what they need to do in order to be able to do their job, to be able to add value to their service, their division, their departments, what they're accountable for, right? And working together. So, because often you find in complex organisations as well, um, that the there's um a shortfall in communication, transparency as well, and a two-way conversation, right? So I think that was also key. And I know that you spent a lot of time brokering those relationships to make sure that you could help help them understand what it was that they needed to be able to see in order to be able to do their job. And I think that always goes back to being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes as well. Um, and I think also, you know, again for large organizations that that's that's really imperative, right? When you're working on a shoestring budget, which we which we which we all are, then then it's like, oh my god, like what's not the path of least resistance, but what can I do that's going to make the most impact, right? And give the most business value. And also because you're a local authority, you know, your stakeholders, not only have you got your internal stakeholders and they put their own agendas and and and and plans and aspirations as well, you're sort of managing that as well, but also your customers, right? Um, and like you said, like you've got a lot of vulnerable customers as well, and from a safeguarding issue. So you want to make sure that from a digital perspective, that you're putting putting resources in that are going to help them in the long term. Are there any particular programs of work where you found um maybe going off topic a little bit, but just sort of interesting for for other authorities about you know, where did you, how did you, how did you come to choose which which pockets of uh the customer base that you were gonna kind of strategize that to help first, as it were?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yes, um, and again, it's engagement with key people around the organisation, so working with directors, um, but working with finance teams as well, actually. Okay. What were their headaches? Yeah, it's that thing about follow the money, yeah. Um, you know, what what's the organization most concerned about financially? Um, and and I think it's that led us to some really key areas. Obviously, we know um EHCP numbers are you know, rocketing have been escalating over the last few years. Um, that was a key area we needed to understand more about. A lot of that had been sitting, a lot of information was sitting in spreadsheets, but more on the financial side. So that was a really important area for us to focus on to pull the information together in a better way so that the organisation could see what they needed to see, yeah, um, and then be able to make service decisions. And you know, we're now in a position where we've got a forecast, um a future forecast of EHCP numbers, we're informing sufficiency planning to understand where we might need additional um provision across the authority, or you know, which localities might they need to be in. Um, and you know, that was a key area for us. Adult social care, um, admissions to nursing, residential care, um, understanding how is that likely to change in the future, um, some of those key areas as well. Um, and I think as well, some of it was about um sharing the art of the possible because some of the work we were doing was new. We were bringing data together in ways that we hadn't been able to do before and modelling with data in a way we hadn't been able to do before, um, obviously underpinned by all of the appropriate information governance um documentation and you know, GDPR was was kind of you know right there on our shoulders all the time. Um, but yeah, I think being able to show services that we could bring data together from different systems and show um, I know we talk about the single view of a child, um, we haven't quite achieved that because that wasn't our priority, but we've been able to bring key information together about the children we support to show we know which are the greater areas of need and to show a I suppose a degree of complexity that we might be missing otherwise. Um, so again, opening directors' eyes to what we were able to achieve, um I think then opened a conversation for the future about ah, right, okay. Well, in that case, if we can do those things, then these are the things that are important to us in our service and our directors. Um that's led to a, you know, we've done a lot of the technical work first, done a lot of the art of the possible, showcasing what we can do, delivering some key pieces of work, and then has come the wiser engagement around, and we're delivering a strategy that sets out five pillars. So we're covering people, process, products, platform partnerships. Um, and how is that going to take us forward into the future? What do you want to see and recognise in our strategy that's relevant to your service and the people you support in our communities? Um, so it's been a long time getting to the launch, but the strategy itself has come out of that initial work to really prove what we can do. Otherwise, I think the strategy would have missed the mark and it would have been quite narrow in its focus, and it wouldn't have really seen uh the opportunity we now have with the new technology, the new tools, the new skills, um, to really bring together that I think is something that's going to help us move forward um, you know, incredibly, incredibly far.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

And if you were to, maybe this is a bit like I was just like thinking when when we say strategy and we say data strategies, sometimes you could have organizations or people that don't work in in our field that go, well, that's just a bit of a lofty term, like it seems out of reach, and I've never seen a data strategy, like you know, somebody could say think that they don't know what it looks like. Is it like can you describe like how would you present that internally? Is that something that you present on a on a you know on a on a dashboard on a you know presentation? Do you bring people into the sort of like uh consultation with that, that they get their input as well? But how does it how does it look and feel like in reality?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Well, yeah, we did the hard yards, we wrote a document, you know, it it it wasn't more complicated than that, but now it looks fabulous because our communications team have got hold of it and have really elevated it and it looks amazing. Um, I've also developed it in partnership with my digital colleague um who's delivered our digital ambition. So we have a kind of an overarching, you know, sort of way into a series of um I suppose it's a journey through those two documents, really. Um, you know, visually far more appealing than um than you know, going through a word document. Yeah, exactly. Who needs that? Uh, you know, gosh, no pictures. Oh um, so uh so yeah, it's really engaging and it tells a story about how we want to use data to make a difference for our communities. That's the that's the crux of it, really. Um, how we want to work with our partners in health in the third sector um to you know to co-produce some of our services and and gain an insight uh that we can really um leverage, you know. I mean, we're going through devolution at the moment, so we're we're working much more closely with Cheshire Eastern and Warrington Council now as well, at that sort of regional level. Um, so I think it's it's very much about our place and what's important to us. And I was very clear right from the beginning, I didn't want it to be a technology-focused document or piece of work. That has to be a part of it, but it's not the overriding, oh, let's all move to cloud and we've got a data strategy and it'll be fine. It's not about that. It's about what are we going to do with the data we, the huge amounts of data we have. You know, we need to curate that, we need to build the platform with all of our you know key data sets and make sure we can deliver for the whole council and combine some of that data as well to bring additional information to light that we haven't been able to access before. And that's the difference we want to be able to make with this. Um, and then it becomes very practical for me. It's about the work programme. So, what are we going to deliver? Yes, we've delivered a strategy, but that just says these are the things we're going to work on. So let's translate that into a work program and get delivering. Um, you know, we engage with management boards, we've taken it to cabinets, and we've got member approval for this. Our portfolio holder has sort of done a talking head to promote the strategies as well. Um, and and then it's as a day, it's about delivery. We've got the prioritization then about those key pieces of work, and we've got a focused two-year timeline because we're linking in with our transformation colleagues as well. Um, we're thinking very much digital data and our customer programme. Um, and we were only working together yesterday morning to understand those dependencies and really connect those pieces of work together so we can support the whole organization with the right transformation that's going to help us achieve, you know, huge things that are absolutely essential in this current climate.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, I think that's brilliant. And I think, you know, like the the whole idea of like, you know, the strategy is canvas, right? That that everyone has got uh you know skin in the game and that they they can be part of it. And I think also what what's really clever about the way that you're implementing it is that you know uh everyone will have access to it as well, right? And that and that in your terminology, in the way that your your tone of voice, the way that you're speaking about it, would kind of keep going back to this is this is part of the of the scheme of the of the programs of work that are going to come out of it. So if you're constantly referring back to it, you know, it's like um you're bringing people along, right? On on that journey, as you said. And I think um we know that obviously it's going to be published later in in Q1, and that'll be on the website. So, you know, we'll obviously keep our eyes out for that, and there'll be a LinkedIn post about that. So can't wait to kind of see it in its full glory. And um, I was thinking earlier when I was like thinking about some questions, like so you were saying about your priorities, and then you were looking at those, like and looking at what the the the directors and the senior leadership team like what were their kind of focus points and how could you help them? So you've implemented them, that's great. And I think um when we're talking about you talked about governance, so obviously, you know, working with local authority, we talked about GDPR. And I just wonder what govern governance structures did you need to put into place to make a strategy work?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Um, well, interestingly, um we now where do I start? We have been through a bit of a restructure along the way as well because we've disaggregated our ICT services now, so we have a fully sort of Cheshire West and Chester DDAT service. Um, and as part of that process, I've introduced a new role in. My team to work alongside our data scientists, our data management and ethics officer. So her role is very much to keep us all on the set straight and narrow in terms of our documentation. Obviously, I've got some really technical people in my team, and they all understand the information governance ethical and legal considerations, but I can't have them off their tasks of delivering their technical work. So our Rajni, our data management and ethics officer, is pulling all of that together and putting into place our ethics framework, tying in with national guidance on the algorithm transparency framework and things like that. So I think that's been a really important uh addition to our team.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

That's amazing. Yeah, because you didn't have that a little while ago, which is which is incredible. And did that um did that take um, I'm sure like with anything, like things take a while to get by in and all of that kind of stuff? And I just how do you how have you gone about framing that person in the business and making that person's role more than it is, that it that it can kind of to sit, I guess, because they would have an input in quite a lot of different things, right? Um, and departments. How are you how are you integrating um their role um into the organisation and making it accessible?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yes, I mean it's early days just yet, and I've got her focused on the work of our team because we've got a corporate information governance team as well. So I'm very keen to make sure that you know the sort of lines of responsibility are clear and we don't chad on toes and so on. Um, but to be fair, she does work very, very closely with our information governance team and you know, as a checkpoint, really, to make sure she's straight on the legislation and and has the right focus. Um, but yeah, her work with my team has been really key because she didn't come from a technical area. She's achieved a data for apprenticeship with a distinction. She's got an amazing result in that. So she understands the world of data, but our technical world is newer to her. So she's getting to grips with that, understanding some of the detail around the pieces of work we're delivering, getting to understand a little bit more about other service areas that she perhaps wasn't so familiar with before, um, and equally sharing back her knowledge with the team about you know, these are the these are the frameworks we need to adhere to, these, you know, have we got all of our DPIAs in order, you know, records of processing activity, all of all of our you know, checks and balances really, um, you know, focusing on making sure they're that you know they're in a a good good place.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Amazing. And when we I was just like thinking about, you know, um uh we talked about communication, we talk about collaboration, and then also, you know, also always thinking about curiosity. How do we build a sort of data curious culture, maybe in non-technical teams? And I just wonder if you've got experience of this. Um, I don't think we've discussed it before, so it might be a bit like a thrown-out question there that I've just like been thinking about. But I I know that we have lots of different conversations about lots of different things, and we're always like asking questions, and we're innately curious. And so I'm I'm sure there's also a culture of that that at trust at the council. And I just wonder how you you've you've kind of driven that.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yes, uh yeah, I think again, it's been really interesting to see the change over time. So, as my team has become more established and you know, word has got out, um, and also the data apprenticeship, um, and we host um monthly PowerBite sessions as well, where we share kind of learning and hints and tips on various topics. Um, so the last one was on accessibility in Power BI dashboards, you know, really important topic. Another one might be on how to use Power Query effectively, another one, you know, how to build a dashboard from you know, base principle sort of thing. Um, so we, you know, we do that as well. So I think gradually we're you know getting the word out, and people are naturally then becoming more curious about right, okay, so I've got this data, what else can I do with it that might give us something more? Because there's a lot of data activity that goes out across the services. You know, in a corporate team, a relatively small corporate team, we won't ever be able to deliver everything the organization needs. And those, you know, those colleagues in services are absolutely key because they know their services really well, they know their service users, um, and also they know what questions they might need to ask. So I think you know, engaging with them and and seeing how they are becoming more curious about the data, and they're coming back to us with questions as well. You know, oh, I'm trying to do this. Have you got some information that will help me? Um, and you know, pulling together work across different services as well and pulling teams together quickly to answer you know questions and challenges. Um, I think I think we're just becoming a lot more agile about how we think about our data, you know, which is fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

And have you got data stewards and data owners?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yes, yeah, we have data owners out across services. So, you know, we might work with adult social care data, but the owner is in the business, um, you know, or or um, you know, uh exact director for adult services, you know, that that's her responsibility and you know distributed through uh the organisation. Um, but then you know, we we own you know we're the the owner for certain data sets as well, um, you know, which which works well, but it's it's huge. You know, we've got a big organization, so it's it's always uh challenging. But I think all of the data work we're doing is uh kind of reinforcing why that's important. Um, you know, aiming it's data quality. Sorry, just to I suppose just to touch on data quality because it's just the constant topic, isn't it, in data discussion. Um I think that's um that's a really key part of improving awareness and understanding about why we are doing all of this work with data and why we need to keep the quality as robust as we can and having more open conversations is giving us that route in to say we can't do this without important data quality, or we can do this, but we've got these caveats that we need your engagement around to improve that in the system. So um just having that conversation in a shared way about all of those key areas is so important.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And how did you find the process of you know allocating the the data stewards? Were they people that were already in the organization and this was then sort of kind of rolled into um uh a new role or something, or was it was it a was it a larger piece of work where you had to, you know, have a I mean I'm I'm sure obviously you had a strategy for you know allocating the the stewards and the product owners, but I just wondering in some organisations where they're not so mature in in that step. I just wonder because I know sometimes it can be a bit, it's a fine balance, isn't it? Of how do you how do you go about that? And I just wondered, because you've obviously done that and done that, been there, got the t-shirt. So is there anything you can share about about that process? Because that that would be quite interesting to talk about for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yes, and I mean I can't claim any credit really because that all came in when the you know the data protection legislation was you know, the GDPR act of whenever it was, I can't remember. Um, you know, that was introduced. Our information governance team took responsibility for that, and they uh sort of drove that initiative out across the organisation. People were asked to put forward information after toners and and that whole sort of structure was put in place at that point. Um I think it's you know, having launched the data strategy, it's probably a really good time to kind of revisit some of that and re-establish some of those principles. Um, but again, that's us working with information governance and understanding where our different responsibilities sit. Um but it will be a collective effort um across our, you know, all of our teams who work with data.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, because I I was working with a with a with a client recently, um, you know, um allocating sort of like data steward roles, etc. And I think, you know, one of the things that I learned from this experience as well is that you know, communication, that transparency, that trust um is something you know to be to be built and and and sort of gains and gains momentum uh as it kind of keeps rolling forward. And I think, you know, definitely from a a data steward's perspective that you know they want to feel engaged in and that they're the ones that are doing right the date the day-to-day, ensuring that everything is correct and and and hitting all that criteria. And and I just wondered, you know, um, is there any kind of like I know it's not directly in your department, but are there any kind of like lessons learnt that you learn or that you know of that might help another organisation when if they've not got to that stage at when going about um building that into the strategy?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

It's it it's difficult because um I think the remit of that responsibility needs to be really clear. And it's it's a difficult one, isn't it? Because I I always try and balance what we're trying to achieve for the organization with what we're allowed to do from a you know a kind of a GDPR perspective, but also an ethical perspective. That's a really, really key element for me at the moment. Um and you know, just because you can doesn't mean you should, all of those things. Um but equally, I think we need to think about the art of the possible and what can we achieve and how will it move the organisation forward, and then put those checks in place to say, are we allowed to do this? And and have a more balanced but comprehensive conversation about what we're trying to do. Um, because I think previously we've been in a position where we've looked at a piece of work as oh no, we can't do that because of GDPR, and it's been a barrier to even starting a piece of work. Whereas I would have I would much prefer that open conversation and involve the data owners in that conversation to say, right, we're trying to do this, this is why we're trying to do something. Yeah, we've brought these tests in, this is how we're going to be working with the data. We can do it technically, but then are we comfortable accepting that in a you know a legal perspective and also an ethical perspective? And and rather than it be a very polarized view of no, you can't because you can't deliver, um should we, you know, actually what can we deliver within all of those um considerations and parameters? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's really key. And again, it keeps going back to it's that communication, right? And that willingness to be open, right? And I think that's I think that's probably key to to the future as well, isn't it? It's going to be about having that open discussion, right? Being not uh being open for feedback, being able to accept responsibility, ownership, accountability. Um, and and I guess you know it's like if we're if we're in an organization and you you all want to be going in the same direction, hopefully, as well. And that and if everyone understands deep down what that direction is, using your five pillars, right? This is our strategy, this is our canvas, our blueprint, this is where we want to go. But these are the reasons why, and this is how it's gonna help and enable and enhance our customer experience, our our users, you know, to be able to access our information and services, then you know, your borough is going to be a you know a brighter and uh safer place to be in as well, right? And um a place where people can live together and access the keep the um the support services that they need. Um and I think the other thing that I was thinking is that um what are the what are the if you could go back to day one is a leading question there, so what would you do differently? Oh goodness if you can, if you can. I what could I change?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

I'm not sure to be honest, because it was we were in a really unique position and we were almost able to operate a bit like a startup, where we were, you know, I was handed this sort of opportunity, and I wasn't really given any strict parameters. You know, I wasn't told you can do this but you can't do that. It was, you know, please set up a data engineering team for us, and then it grew from there, and I was given the freedom to add in all the other components on a shoestring, I might add. Yeah, yeah. Which you know, um, and and most of that actually was repurposing resources from other other teams, um, taking advantage of fabulous programs like the nurture program um and testing things out, you know, seeing what would stick. You know, we tried the data apprenticeship program with a partner, and we didn't know if that would take off. And you know, all of the people that have come on the programme since have all opted to do it. We haven't mandated anybody to go on that training. I was really, really adamant that I didn't want to do that. Um, and it's it's all grown incrementally. So I could say I mean you know, I'd have preferred less technical change happening in parallel because if I'm honest, that's kind of hindered us a little bit making progress, as much progress as we wanted to, as quickly as we wanted to, but equally we've delivered some other brilliant things. Um in the meantime, so swings and roundabouts really. Um but yeah, I think sort of leaning into what was brilliant about that that opportunity for me, I was given the freedom to deliver. And in the current climate, you don't get that very often.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

And I've never ever had that before in my career and may never have it again. It was really unique and hugely appreciated from my perspective because it allowed me to, I suppose, um tap into my creativity and my vision for what I wanted to achieve. And as I say, just really trying things out, take the organization on a bit of a bit of a journey and see whether it was going to fly or not. Um, so yeah, I think that um probably uh sharing more of the positives really than what would change. But um, but for me it was yeah, it's quite a unique time.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Um I remember that, and I remember, you know, us you have it going, oh I'll just spit up some virtual machines, and I was like, wow, I shouldn't do that, you know, and you know, you just made things happen, right? I mean, there was obviously a lot of back and forth, and I would just go like, we've done it, Lisi, but you know, like I know that you put your heart and soul into it. And I'm just sort of thinking before we close, like about the what I loved about what you're saying, because you never think, well, I never think of a you know, uh, a council uh local authority as a startup. I was thinking it's gonna take 15 years to get anything done and the process, and I'm probably still waiting for uh an inquiry I made about a new den that I wanted, you know. So, you know, that that's obviously I don't I don't live in your borough, it would just get done like that. But what I'm saying is that you never think it's it's like a quick, oh my god, let's just start as day one, right? And I've worked in the startup world for for for years. I don't think I could ever go back to corporate. Uh, because I've just like, you know, you've got a problem and you find a solution, and you just you just iterate and you just get going and you just put your mark in the sand and you and you go. And and I think that's a really important sort of thing to to kind of like be leaving leaving off there is that local authorities, if they were to do something similar, if they have that that that vision that actually, if we treat it like a startup with the art of the possible, then you can achieve great things. You have to have the right leaders in place, you know, like good self there that that are able to carry that mantle and go and and have that energy, right? And that resilience to be able to pull out all the stops and galvanize energy and that action, whereas some some it might be seem a bit tedious or a bit like, oh god, is it ever going to work? But you're very you've got a very uh contagious kind of uh you know energy and enthusiasm, and I think I think there's something very excitable about that, and I think maybe that's something local authorities can can definitely learn from what from the work that you've been doing there, um, is you know, treat it like a startup, you know, and the art of the possible. I think that's really important. And I think um if there's you know one lesson that you hope listeners would take away from your experience, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, I think for me, the most important thing is that it this is a team sport, so it you don't ask a technical team to go and deliver a dashboard for you or you know an analytic analytics team to deliver a dashboard and thank you very much, I'll take that back into the service. Um it has to be it has to lean into those three areas. It is process people and technology, and they have to come together. You can't deliver a meaningful piece of data work without engagement from the service. They know their data inside out, they might not have the tools to analyse all of that, but they know their residents, they know their communities and the services they deliver. Um, finance needs to be in the room. If you've got transformation as well, brilliance. Um, you know, so some of those key people working alongside and in partnership with technical colleagues or analytical colleagues, you get a much richer product that tackles all of the things along the way, like the data quality, or why is the data telling us that? Oh, yeah, got the wrong field. And it just helps you be more agile about your delivery as well. Um, you know, I mean, crackly, we we're not perfect. We've had you know long delivery timelines where we've had technical issues and an external system, you know, the connection isn't working, and you know, all sorts of things like that that need time to sort out. So you know, we haven't delivered everything in the blink of an eye. But I think that key for me, it's that partnership working in either internally or with partners in health, for example, um, to really drive the product that's needed, you know, come up with that question, that hypothesis together, and then you know, actually, yes, have we answered that or not? Yeah, um, and you might add things along the way, but again, it's that that rigour and not being complete cowboys, yes, and having that governance and wrap around it, but delivering in an agile way, I think is really key. And then you can, you know, you're quick to pick up issues as they arise, you can get together, have that discussion, turn it around a bit and move forward, and you haven't lost a huge amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Amazing. Well, I think that's it for today's episode, and a huge thank you to Simone for such an honest and a thoughtful conversation about the realities of building a data strategy that serves people, not just process, like you said. And we're keen to see the uh strategy when it's published on the website, so I'll keep an eye out for that. And what I love about your approach is that yours really grounded and progress is sort of measured in confidence, not just sort of KPIs. So, if this um episode has sparked any ideas for your organisation or if you're navigating similar challenges, we'd love to hear from you and you can find more comments. conversations like this from our um from our podcast. So thank you so much, um Simone. It was wonderful to spend time with you. Thank you.