Autism with Rachel Profitt

Episode Description:
In the first episode of our Day In The Life series, we sit down with Rachel Profitt, a Principal Program Manager at Microsoft, for an open and honest conversation about living and working as an autistic woman. Rachel shares her personal experiences navigating accessibility, inclusion, and professional life in tech, offering insight into what true support and understanding can look like in the workplace and beyond.

This episode is designed for anyone who wants to better understand autism, accessibility, and inclusive practices through real lived experience.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

•  Rachel’s journey as an autistic woman in the tech industry
•  What a typical day looks like for her
•  How accessibility impacts productivity and wellbeing
•  Challenges and strengths of neurodivergence at work
•  The importance of inclusive culture and understanding autism
•  Advice for organizations and individuals who want to be more inclusive

Who This Episode Is For:

•  Autistic and neurodivergent individuals
•  People interested in accessibility and inclusion
•  Employers, managers, and coworkers in tech and beyond

Follow the Accessible Community Podcast on your favorite podcast platform to hear more conversations centered on accessibility, lived experience, and inclusion.

Video of Interview

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Accessible Community Podcast, where we will be exploring disability, aging, and accessibility through lived experiences. Join us to deepen your understanding in these areas, and for show notes, you can find them at accessiblecommunity.org slash podcasts. Be accessible and be inclusive. Hey everyone and welcome to the premier episode of A Day in the Life, a brand new podcast series hosted by me, Taylor Dorward, and brought to you by the people at Accessible Community. We will be interviewing a few people every month with varying disabilities, and our main goals are to educate the community as well as raise awareness for various disabilities and the true importance of accessibility and inclusivity, but also providing a platform for people to share their stories and lived experiences, and maybe while doing so assist others who are going navigating their own life with a similar disability. So this month we are focusing on autism. And today my first guest is Rachel Profit. And I'll give her plenty of time to introduce herself. But before I do that, I'm going to give an accessible introduction for myself. And so, as I said, my name is Taylor, and I'm a white male with short brown hair, a short brown beard, blue eyes, and today I'm wearing a white t-shirt with a cream-colored flannel over top, as well as a small silver chain around my neck. And so hopefully that gives anyone who's visually impaired or not able to watch the video a better idea as to what I look like. So with that, I will pass it over to Rachel, where she, I know she, as always, will give a wonderful, accessible introduction as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yeah, awesome. Thank you, Taylor, and thank you for having me. Um, my name is Rachel Prophet. My pronouns are she, her. I am a white woman with long red hair that's pulled back today because I'm a little sweaty. I went horseback riding earlier today. Um, I'm wearing rose-colored glasses and a white blouse with like a collar and blue butterflies on it. And I'm in my office with my epic sticker wall behind me. Um, for those of you that don't know me, I identify um as an autistic ADHDer with PTSD, and I have a whole slew of other diagnoses as well, but we don't need to get into all the details of uh my full list of diagnoses. But yeah, I'm happy to be here and happy to uh share about my journey and my experience.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Wonderful. I'm really excited to have you. And the the goal of this is to raise awareness, and I feel like you're a great person to start with because similar to me, you're very open about it and love being an advocate for others. So I'm very excited about that. And so you described yourself a little bit, but and since this is more focused on autism, would you be able to describe your disabilities and like just uh one do you feel comfortable talking about right here?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Sure. So, like um autism, it's a spectrum disorder. Autism spectrum disorder is it's what it's referred to by the medical professionals in the DSM, which is like the big book of official diagnoses. Um, I personally prefer um identity first um language when I talk about myself being autistic. So if you're not familiar with like like a person with autism or an autistic person, it's just a preference thing. Um, some autistic people would prefer a person with autism. Uh for me, I I believe it's just part of my identity. And so I prefer that identity first um language when I refer to myself. Um it's funny that like you had like autism is like it's obviously it's very broad, it's very complicated, but um it's considered to be what's called like a developmental disorder, which means I was technically born this way. And um the the way that I like to describe it or explain it to people is that um I like to break it down into this idea that we all have eight sensory systems. Um and the way I experience the world um is is different. I mean, and obviously the way everybody experiences the world is different, but that doesn't mean you're autistic. Um, but I think like what makes me autistic is that like in some of my eight sensory systems, proprioception being one of them. So if you're not familiar with this concept of proprioception, um, it's like your sense of like where you're at in space and time. It's like what gives people the ability to like walk up and down stairs or walk on rocky surfaces without falling over. Um, I mean, it does a lot of different things, but like in the most simplified version of or explanation of it, like I get an F in proprioception. Um so I and that's okay. Like, I just the way um I experience um like balance um in the world is is very different. Also, the way I experience interoception, which is like what I feel inside of my body, is very different than what we would consider air quote neurotypical. Um, so for me personally, um I struggle with noticing anything inside of my body that can be things as basic as like I'm hot or I'm cold or I need to go to the bathroom or I'm hungry. So I don't notice those body sensations that are happening inside of my body, oftentimes until they're really big. And the same is true of like emotions. I also have a secondary diagnosis that's called alexithymia, which is kind of related to like the interoception, which means that I don't I don't sense emotions the same way as other people. I've written blogs about this, but um I kind of it's kind of a joke, but it's kind of serious. Um, like you may have heard that some people might see in or like sense emotions in like colors, you know, and they might have like different like color auras that they associate with certain feelings. For me, the kind of and it's kind of a joke, but it's kind of like it's just what I associate with is like I call them emotion animals. So like I when I'm angry, I associate with a certain animal, like and and I and I say that I feel like an animal. And I think it's maybe like my brain's way of interpreting like a gif. Imagine like the mere cats like standing up like boxing each other. Like that's kind of like the visual, and it's not a body sensation, it's like a visual sensation that I get, like when I'm angry. Like if I feel like mere cats like in a fight out in the field, then that might mean I'm angry.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I'm curious, what is what is your happy animal?

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Um, my happy animal is and it it kind of depends on my level of happiness. Um, but it most of the time I would say it's a panda bear, right? Like, so like my visual representation is like the panda bear sitting there eating like their little bamboo sprouts or whatever and roly-pulleying about in in the zoo, right? That's that's my visual representation of of a happy happy place.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

But sometimes I might be something everyone should look into doing like your happy animal.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah, go to your happy animal, yeah. Well, and I think it's it's interesting that you say that because it's like when we kind of learned that that was how my brain was interpreting like sensations or feelings um or situations, then I was able to start to like understand like what it was I'm feeling. I still struggle with it hardcore, but um, I just don't have body sensations and my brain doesn't process those. And maybe they exist, but my brain certainly does not process them the same way that other people do. But um I'm you know, I'm also like some other things, like from an autistic standpoint, like I'm super sensitive to sound and light. So um I wear these rose-colored glasses, which I got through occupational therapy and trying on like 70 different pairs of glasses to kind of figure out like what worked for me. Um, I think partially because I spend so much time in front of the computer screens and like there's so much artificial light around me. I think like it's one of those things that like irritates me, but like I I'm one of those people that can hear lights, like a lot of people can't hear lights. Like, I sometimes people can say, Oh, well, like yeah, I can hear fluorescent lights. Like, I I it's it's almost like I can hear electricity around me, and it's like this like constant like noise, um, and and everything in my environment. Like, um, there's a lot of textures that I'm sensitive to. Um, but like sounds I can be very sensitive to. I don't like big smells, um, because like it it can literally just like send me into a crazy spiral.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, when uh like uh anyone who does know, I've known you for three or four years, maybe maybe more, but I saw I've seen you wearing your Roseland glasses, and I was I was curious, and I wasn't sure how comfortable you were at this was back when I first met you.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Wasn't sure how comfortable you were talking about it, so I looked into it. And apparently a lot of people with low vision also get it to help with photophobia or light sensing. Yep. And I didn't know that, and that's something I've struggled with for a long time, but it's not very severe, it's very mild, but yeah, it's enough where I have to blink a lot, and I just I always had the shades close in my room, the sunlight's just too much. So I got a few pairs of Roseland's glasses, and I was like, wow, I do not have to blank near as much when I'm outside or looking at the TV or the the computer monitor. So it's it's pretty crazy how a lot of these things can help various types of discomfort.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

It's it is such a simple accommodation. I honestly I picked mine up off of Amazon. Um, and and I've had a couple different pairs over the last few years. I switch them up every now and then. Um, like my specific like rose-colored tint is called FL41, which blocks out like 41 different like types of blue light. But when I was in occupational therapy, I tried yellow, I tried green, I tried blue, I tried all sorts of different tinted colored glasses because like for different people, it like what is kind of air quote bothering them, like might be different, and like what helps them kind of achieve that kind of sense of calm, or in in occupational therapy, they call it like the optimal arousal state, right? So when I don't wear my glasses, I can tell within 15 minutes, and I start to get agitated and I'm like really fidgety, and um, I might even start getting a headache and I don't understand why. Like, why does my head hurt? And like since I've started wearing the glasses, I mean, at first I was kind of weird about it, and I would only wear them at night and I wouldn't put them on like during meetings, but at some point I just kind of embraced it and was like, well, I'm just gonna try this like for two weeks and see how it goes. And uh like for me, it was it was life-changing, uh like how much it like helped me adjust and adapt and like leverage what was like you know, it and it's an easy accommodation to put on a pair of glasses, right? Like millions of people wear glasses, so maybe not millions of people wear rose-colored glasses, but they do say everything looks better like through rose-tinted glasses.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

So yeah, it's it's crazy what a a small accommodation, like how much it can help someone.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Like avoiding those headaches and that sensory overload that that makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

And I know you had said you had rode horses earlier, like what are some other hobbies that you have?

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Woodworking is probably like my go-to like zen place. Um, so I took a class a couple years back. I was fascinated by watching like people use a lathe, which is like a tool that spins a piece of wood really, really fast, and then you use a chisel like that you hold in your own hand to basically carve the wood. And I was fascinated and mesmerized by watching videos of people like using a lathe. And so I finally like went and took a class and learned how to do it and bought a lathe. And I have a whole wood shop here at my house too, but the lathe is my most favorite like tool. So I love making like bowls and candlesticks, and I just find like the the visual stimulation, even like the auditory stimulation of like grinding the chisel along like the wood is just very satisfying to me.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

That's pretty cool. I I'm partially thinking about trying that now. It sounds pretty cool. Like, do you think there are any hobbies that you feel like you enjoy more because of your disabilities? Like uh, like does doing the woodworking, do you think it brings you like peace because like you get to focus very intently on it? Anything anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 14:37

The woodworking for me, right? It gives me positive visual stimulation, it gives me positive like auditory stimulation that I enjoy, and even the tactile stimulation, like the feeling of the the wood. Um, so I think like you know, that is a hobby that I think I I gravitated towards just because of like the those three factors. And like horseback riding, I will tell you, is actually it's more of a learning experience. I like don't get me wrong, I do enjoy it. Um but um it's very difficult for me. Like I find it very, very hard. Like, because like you have to focus and think about so many different parts of your body, like what your arms are doing, what your legs are doing, like are you sitting up straight? Like you have to be like calm inside your body because the horse senses whatever you're sensing. Like, so if you're agitated, then the horse is agitated. So, like horses are an interesting animal to work with, like through hippotherapy, and I've been doing that since I was diagnosed. Horses are like mirrors, and so I've learned a lot about myself, and it's interesting, obviously, in a horse, right? Because it's this big creature, right? That like if you don't handle it carefully and handle it well, it can hurt you, but it can also like they can be very calming, they can be very gentle, they can um, they can help you even work through your own stuff. Like they it's almost like horses can be like empaths almost, right? Where they can like absorb whatever it is you're feeling, and that's been super powerful for me, but like riding horses, I like it's been two and a half, three years, and I'm just now to the point where I can like trot and post correctly on a horse. I don't canter, I do not gallop, like I can steer a horse, I know how to tack a horse up, I know how to like do all the basic care. But like I think like because of my like disabilities, it's been more challenging for me to learn how to ride a horse. Uh, but it's also been super rewarding, and I love working with the animals.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Nice, and that's a great reason why we're doing this, because an autistic person can watch this and think, wow, I never thought to do wordworking, and they might find like a new passion for themselves. So that's wonderful to hear. And like for me, because I'm partially blind, I I can't really do a lot of the hobbies I used to enjoy because they're too visually demanding. But then I like just started trying things and like I tried jujitsu, and I realized you don't need to see, like you can feel what you're doing and feel what your opponent's doing. And so I just find it kind of fascinating when our disabilities can open our open us up to new interests. So I find that and I also really enjoyed you talking a little bit about identity first language, because that's something I've been uh doing a lot more learning about, because for a long time I've been primarily using person first language, because when I first started getting more into the field of accessibility, the actually I think it was uh I forget exactly where where I was trained on this, but it was saying like to always use person first language, because if you don't, then you risk offending someone by associating them with their disability.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

And at the time this might say the rule should be you should always ask.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly part of it. But then when you're thinking about situations where you're talking to a group, it might be a little more challenging. And so I always thought person first was the safer option, because for me, I always preferred it, but I never thought about it being kind of subjective or contextual, even because for me, I didn't want my whole identity wrapped up in being blind, because when when someone said like Taylor is a blind guy, I felt like that's how people are mainly associating me and remembering me. And so for a long time I used that by default, but over time I learned that a lot of people, and like you said earlier, like having it like embracing it and being having it be a part of their identity. And so I've started to shift towards using a little bit of both. And so I'll use like if I'm doing a public speaking engagement, I'll use some person first, some identity first, but then like you were saying, if you're like having conversation with someone like like now, I know you prefer identity first language, so here I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

It's actually interesting though that you say that like I I'm identity first with autism and ADHD, but I am like person first because I say I have PTSD. And I think like maybe for me, the distinction that I in my brain is like I think PTSD is something that technically could be cured and it's not part of my identity. Yes, I have PTSD, but I don't, I like I don't view PTSD as being a just a part of who I am that's never gonna change. But like autism and ADHD are just part of who I am, and like that's never gonna change, right? I might choose to work on certain aspects of myself and and try to improve myself or change certain aspects of myself, but no matter how much I change myself, I'm still always going to be autistic and ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

That's very interesting that you say that. Like, I wonder if part of the reason for so long I preferred person first when people were speaking about me was because I still had hope that it would get cured.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Like I started it fully blind, it was progressively getting better over the years. Yeah. So maybe that's part of the reason why. So that's a very interesting to think about.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah, definitely. I when I was first diagnosed, I the the psychologist or psychiatrist, whatever she was, I don't remember, one of those big fancy doctors, um, asked me which one I preferred. And I think when she like, I like just in the shock of being diagnosed, I was like, well, person first, I'm I'm me, right? Was kind of like the answer. Like, but I think like over time I've definitely gravitated more towards identity first. Like this is me. Like this is and it's okay, like this is who I am, take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a very, very fascinating topic and probably something we could feel like a whole hour about. Probably, yeah. Yeah. And that's what's interesting, but also a little challenging about a lot of stuff with like disability etiquette and accessibility, like a lot of it can be. Very subjective depending on who you're asking.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

That's always a good rule of thumb if you have the opportunity, like just asking the person, do you prefer them to do this? And I think it's a great easier.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah. It costs zero dollars to ask.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Absolutely. So tell us about what you do. So do you work or do anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah. So I work full-time for Microsoft. Um I am a principal program manager in the customer experience and growth team responsible for the business process excellence program. Um I've been with Microsoft for just over five years. I've been working in the Dynamics 365 space and world for more than 20 years. I I got my start in, it was like Xapta version 2.5, um, just out of high school. I've been doing it ever since. I I actually think it's kind of interesting for me. I it it was kind of one of those things that like fell into my lap, like this job. It was supposed to be just like a summer job that my stepmom got me at the place where she was working before I went off to college. I think I accidentally figured out that I was like really, really good at this whole software thing. And I didn't really know why or what it was. It wasn't until much later, probably maybe like five, 10 years ago, that I kind of figured out why I think I'm so good at what I do. I spent a lot of years of my career training other people how to use software. And I think it's because I have a somewhat idetic memory in that I like the way my brain stores like information about the software. Um I can recall off the top of my brain like any screen in the software. And I can remember where it's at, like where you need to click. I can be like, yeah, it's like the third tab over, and then like about halfway across, you'll see a button called this, and you need to click it. Like, and I can just like recall the these things like off the top of my head. Um, and I think it was like I didn't realize that I was doing this and that I had this ability, but I think it's like one of those like autistic strengths that like the way my brain works and the way I kind of store the files, so to speak, in my brain is is maybe different than the way other people do, and my ability to recall them um is super powerful. And I think like figuring that out for myself obviously led to a very successful career. I think when I was a little kid, I was super passionate about architecture and I was dead sad I was gonna be an architect. Um, I was accepted into Ball State's um architecture program as like a freshman, which is pretty hard. Most people don't get in until their second year. And like I like that's what I was gonna do. I was gonna go be an architect. And um, I would I would say I'm generally an artistic kind of person, a creative kind of person, but I think in hindsight, like I'm glad that my life took a different path because I don't know that like what I know now, like I don't know that I would have been successful. I think college would have been extremely challenging for me socially, mentally, probably even physically. And, you know, I think I I'm maybe lucky, I guess, that I figured this out and figured out how to harness that. And it's something I'm passionate about. Like I really enjoy helping other people. So I think like being able to use my skill in a way that I can help other people has been super powerful and career building for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yeah, and I I certainly tried to do a lot of that myself, but like looking at the on the brighter side and like not what my disability took away from me, but what I can utilize it for. And like obviously I do have some heightened sense of hearing, but I and I do know jujitsu, but I'm not gonna be daredevil. I'm not gonna be a vigilante. Um, but there are like certain things that you can like ways you can view your disability and think, and just kind of take take some joy out of it. Like it makes something kind of fun. Like, for example, one of the greatest joys of my life right now is playing high-go-seek with my five-year-old niece. It adds a lot of suspense to it. And she's she's at an age now where she's starting to understand my vision more and learn more about what I can and can't see. And she knows that my left periphery is really bad. And so if I'm counting in one room, sometimes she'll just hide around the corner and like just stand against the wall, and I'll walk right past her. And like, so there are some situations where I can find joy in my disability. And I feel like that's really helped give me closer to being more of an identity first type of type of person where I'm accepting that's that's who I am and I'm I'm I'm okay with that. And so I think that's pretty pretty great when we're able to find joy in our disability. It's not always gonna be that way, but it's it's good to celebrate those small victories.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Absolutely. I tell people autism is my superpower.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Like I it's it's definitely like taken a lot of things away from me, but like if I sit and dwell on the things that I can't do, like, yeah, we're all gonna be sad and depressed. But like if I focus on like what it has enabled me to do and how I can use my voice to help other people, I think that's even better.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, absolutely. So when were you diagnosed with autism?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

It's been about four years. So I'm very late diagnosed. Um I I think um being a late diagnosed woman um was kind of a hard diagnosis to come by. I when I started at Microsoft, I actually we had to take a bunch of mandatory training, which is fantastic. Like, um, and one of them was a training course on uh covering, and I had never heard or masking, I had never heard of this concept before. Like, and so it was like one of the accessibility training courses, um, diversity inclusion courses that they they have everybody here at Microsoft Cake. So I took this course and I got done with this course, and I was like, oh my god, that's me. Like that I could have been in that video. Like, I I show up today, every day, like pretending. And it is like energy draining. I spend a lot of energy pretending and trying to fit in and act like everybody else acts. And I think that's like I've I've done a lot of reading about it. Like they say that like women have a tendency to like air quote fit in socially more because they're just maybe the way women are wired, I guess, is to like try to fit in and try to be accepted. Um, I think like I have struggled my whole entire life to like fit in and and struggle. I think we've all had that moment where like we laughed at the joke even though we didn't understand why it was funny or why everybody else was laughing. Um, but it's kind of like imagine that all day, every day. Like I'm doing these things and I have to remember to do these things because society says that we have to do these things, right? Like, I have to look at people in the eye, I have to smile, I have to like have small talk with people. Like, how are you today? Like, how's the weather? Like, I like I find small talk to be painful. I'd like I'd rather just get like straight to it. Like, what do you want to know? What do you want to ask? Like, do we have to talk about the weather? Like, I don't really know what the weather is. Like, let me get my weather app out, and like then we can talk about the weather. Like, why is this interesting to people? I don't understand, but like little things like that, but it's like everything, right? Like everything we do. And it was energy draining. And I like it started to make me wonder and think. And so I and I I kind of always knew that I felt like different, like there was something different about me, but I didn't know what it was. And so I just sought out a full psychological evaluation, which you know, maybe that was like my midlife crisis, like in my late 30s, to be like, yeah, let's go get a full psychological evaluation. And so I did, and um, I got six diagnoses at the end of this 12-week process. Um, there was crying, there was laughing, there was aha moments, there was it was difficult. But I, you know, and I'm I'm also blessed. I live in Colorado, um, very close to the Star Institute, which is a not-for-profit organization that specializes in sensory differences. Um, and they came very highly recommended um as a resource that could help me as an adult and as a woman to go through this process of getting diagnosed and like having occupational therapy afterwards. So um it was a difficult time, but it was a good time, I guess. Like, I like I'm glad that I did it. I don't know that I recommend to any human to like read the full 40-page diagnosis from your psychologist, though. Like that's maybe, or if you're gonna do it, like just know that it'll be a painful process. It's it's weird to read like hard truths about yourself from like a medical perspective from like a professional, and you're like, yep, nope, that's me.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

That definitely takes courage though.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

So how do how did that change your life going forward once you like learned these things?

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Yeah, I like so once I understood like what it was and we could put words to it, I think right, then it kind of enabled me to start making some choices, right? And and identifying like through occupational therapy, like identifying like, is this something that I want to change? Like, what is it I'm noticing? What and what are my weaknesses, what are my strengths, how can I leverage my strengths, how can I support myself, you know, in my weaknesses to make me be less tired, less exhausted, like not feel like I have to show up and pretend and cover, like and be acting 100% of the time. And so I've learned I learned a lot of strategies through occupational therapy, and I'm still learning, you know, through um OT to like find strategies that help me, um, you know, fidgets that work, visual stimulation that works. Um, I have like a bunch of like roll-on what are like essential oil things that I keep on my desk, right? So, and I use different ones for different reasons and like learning how to do a body scan, like all these things like I think have helped me feel physically less exhausted. And I think that's been like the biggest thing. But like I think also just like learning to love myself and accept myself, and if I choose to change something about myself, I can do that, right? And I can decide, just like we all can.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, that that's definitely a hard part, at least at least for me, when like I was going through like those therapies and trying to work my way through that. Let's talk about like a typical day for you, like at work, and how does how do your disabilities affect you throughout a typical day at work? Um, you know, and and also outside of work as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Yeah. Um, changing my routine is very, very, very, very difficult, um, to say the least. So um anytime I have to like change like my day-to-day, it's it's hard. Um I think like at work, and I just recently requested my first workplace accommodation, um, but at work, like one of the things that I was struggling with hardcore was email. And it's not that I don't know how to read email or organize my email or mark emails as red, or like I know how to do all those things, but I just could not figure out how to manage it and like that like sense of overwhelm. And then it almost like creates like this um like paralysis, like analysis paralysis, so to speak, right? Where like I can't like at my em my inbox got so bad like um a couple months ago that I I declared bankruptcy on my my inbox and marked more than 13,000 emails as read and dragged them to a folder. And you know, I've been working on new strategies to help me deal with it. Um I think like part of it for me is like learning like to set boundaries for myself and like when to say no. And I also tell people if it's not on my calendar, it's not real, it won't happen. I follow my calendar, like it's the Bible, right? Like, I gotta do this. Like, and like I think for me, like I obviously I'm verbal. There's a lot of autistic people who maybe not verbal. Um but like my my speaking abilities, I think are actually one of my strengths. So um, and like my ability to present, uh, my ability to connect like dots, um, so to speak, like not like actual dots, like a picture that we're connecting dots on, but like making references and connections between different pieces of information in my brain is like one of the things that I'm really good at. And so I think it's like finding tasks and jobs and ways to leverage my strengths and then advocating for myself and like setting expectations more clearly where I have weaknesses and learning to set boundaries because I think like for me, like the learning to set boundaries is is probably my my downfall at work, right? I like we just keep piling it on, keep piling it on until I reach like literal autistic burnout. And it's happened. I I've I've hit it twice in my life now, where like full-on like um autistic burnout has happened to me. And the first time it happened, I had no idea like what it was or why it was happening, and um was very confused and just thought it was like depression or something. Um the second time it happened, I was a little bit more aware and a little bit more in control, and we were able to kind of like get out of it before it like got super, super bad. Um so yeah, I think like day-to-day stuff, like I show up on camera in every meeting. I I ask my colleagues to come on camera because I find it helpful. Um, but I think it's that like talking to the wall is like really difficult, but like I miss like auditory cues, like and I'll even miss visual cues, but like if I have both of them, I'm maybe slightly more likely to pick up on something. Um, and so I think I find cameras on to be super useful for me. Um but I also respect that some people like cameras off is actually their preferred way of working. Um I think uh clear instructions has been something I've always been good at writing clear instructions. I haven't always been good about asking or requesting people to give me clear instructions. Um, but I think that's one that I'm working on and like trying to like like when I don't understand something instead of trying to fill in the blanks myself that I ask for those detailed instructions. And I think like it's uh it's maybe hard for people around me but because like I think there's like this like certain assumption that we oftentimes make, like that people understand something. And I'm a very literal person, like so. If you tell me to do something, I will like literally, I will do the thing, like whatever the literal interpretation of that is. And that's not always what uh people mean. And so when I get like guidance from leadership that's like more abstract and broad, and it's not like specifically I need you to do this, this, and this, I have to sit down and like work through, like, okay, I need to do this, this, this, and this, and like validate that with somebody to make sure that that's the right thing to get me to the end point or that goal that we were kind of targeting, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah. So if if you could go back, would you have asked for those accommodations a lot sooner?

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Oh yeah. Yeah, some really and I honestly wish too, like a lot of these things, like even like sooner, because like I like I've I've only been diagnosed for like four and a half years, but then I and I just recently asked for my first accommodation, but I also go like, gosh, man, had had I been diagnosed and had I had these accommodations like 20 years ago in my career ago, like man, that would have been life-changing. Like, I I probably could have gotten a lot further in my career and been less stressed and less like frustrated, um, you know, with like various different things along my career at work.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah, that's a really good thing for people to take away, like asking for those accommodations. And a lot can be fairly simple. And if you're at a place that isn't willing to offer those, then just go somewhere else. It's not always the easiest step, but yeah, like it doesn't take much to help in those small ways.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

So like I would imagine you feel fairly supported by your coworkers and your your superiors.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Oh, absolutely. I think like Microsoft has been an amazing place for me to work in that aspect of like feeling supported by everyone around me, um, and people kind of showing that willingness to um accommodate, offer the helping hand. I and I think right in turn, too, like it makes us all like more willing to like offer it to somebody else too. I think it's like the best accommodations are the ones that it's not just for someone with a disability, it's the accommodation that you give to everyone and it makes everybody's life better, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Um, that curb cut effect we talk about all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Yeah. There are so many things. Like I know when I first started starting to use a lot of these softwares more often, I would have my mom help me look into different accessibility features that are built in. And she was like, wow, I wish I would have known these were here because they help me too. And she's she doesn't have blindness, but they still help, just like curve cuts and elevators, automatic doors, like all these things help everyone just the same, or very similar.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Co-pilot, like helping me write emails, because like um I've I've learned and I've noticed over the many years of my career that um my emotions tend to come out in my writing, even though I don't necessarily like notice them myself. And so using like the co-pilot writing coach to help me like soften like the blow, so to speak, right? Of like whatever it is I'm trying to say, or like help me more professionally say the thing I'm trying to say, um, has been life-changing. But like and I go, like, that's a feature that like everyone can use. Doesn't matter if you have a disability or not. Like, I've especially too like learning to manage email, like co-pilot summaries, like the volume of emails that I get on a daily basis, like I had to kind of learn, like, that's not a normal volume of emails. And if all you like, if if you were expected to read and write a response to every single one of these emails, you would never get anything done, right? So it's like like also kind of learning to accept and like like this isn't normal, like like this is where we set the boundary, and this is what's okay. And like for me, like it it equates to like a set of rules because I live by this like weird set of rules in my brain, and like making a new set of rules that like adapts to like what I need in the situation has been helpful. And anytime I do need to make a life change or a habit change or something like that, it's like I have to work through the rules system in my brain because just the way my brain works. Like otherwise, I'm literally like just in there like arguing inside my brain. Like, like I imagine, like, I don't know, like two Sesame Street characters on either side of my brain, like in there bantering back and forth, like Burt Nerney or something.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah, AI has been incredible for me as well, with like you said, for crafting emails, but also reviewing emails and asking how to best respond appropriately and maybe like like your thing softening the tone. And because sometimes like if you're if you're in a bad mood, sometimes you might just spit something out and it might not be come across exactly how you meant it.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

So the AI tools can be really helpful for that kind of stuff. So how about outsider work? Are there some things like tasks or things do you do outside of work that make your like your disability makes it a bit more challenging?

SPEAKER_02 45:13

That's a tough one. Like definitely like I so I I guess I would maybe describe myself as the introverted extrovert. I am a social butterfly. I love to like go out and be around friends, be around family, um, or have friends and family over to my home. Um, but going out or having people come over can be like very, very overstimulating for me and can cause like issues, like and breakdowns for me. I actually I think in my personal life, I struggle a lot more. Work tends to be more structured, whereas like outside of work, it's less structured and there's less like we do this, we do this. I like I think my husband and I have probably gotten to a point where we do have a fair bit of structure to like what we do on a Monday versus what we do on a Tuesday night. Um, like making a calendar of like meals has been super helpful for me because like I find like eating um and preparing, like I love to cook, but like I don't know, like when I'm busy, when I'm tired, like I don't I don't have the energy to think of what to cook. Um, and so finding like ways and techniques to like help me have more structure, like outside of my office, um, even just like in my bathroom, right? Like the visual reminders like of everything I'm supposed to do in the morning, like brush my hair, brush my teeth. Like I like I I know I'm supposed to do these things, but for whatever reason, like if I don't have this like visual reminder and this like system in place, this set of rules that I have to follow to do it, I don't do it. Um and so I think finding like those systems for myself, and I like I I think I find it more challenging to ask for accommodations and support at home than I do in the workplace. I don't know, I like I don't know why, but like I I can understand that.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Uh, because like especially like wanting to be independent, but also you don't want to feel like you're taking advantage or a burdening family members. At least that's how I can view it sometimes. And so I may want an accommodation here or there. Like I may be out with family and I'll want to go to the bathroom, but I'm not sure where it is. But I'll be like, I'll just wait, I'll wait a little bit until someone else goes and then I'll go with them because like I don't want to burden someone to go find the restroom with me. And so I definitely understand how in a person it can be challenging to wait for somebody else to go to the bathroom so you can see where it is.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Like I I get that. Like, and I'm like, I'm like, well, I'll wait to go to the bathroom because this like email or this work is more important than going to the bathroom. Like it's not covering, it's like not able to set boundaries, is what that is.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

So outside of work, are there any things like chores or like hobbies or whatever there's outside of work made harder or not harder, made easier because of your disability?

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Made easier. Um I'll just be real. I don't do any house chores at all. Like I don't, like I just don't, like I don't have the energy for it. I don't have I mean, and obviously it not everyone has that luxury, but my husband is amazing and he does all of the laundry, he does all of the dishes, he does all of the house cleaning. Um, so I don't have to worry about those things. Um yeah. I mean, I think right, like uh the the the passion and like the uh like the things that I I do at work, like I bring them to my volunteer opportunity. I volunteer a lot, I probably volunteer too much. Um I feel like I volunteer a lot.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

And answer to a question that people wonder what are your weaknesses? I volunteer too much.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

I volunteer too much. Just ask me and I'll probably say yes. Like, because I don't have a no button. Um no, like I think, but like the the same strengths that I bring in the workplace, I think are strengths that I bring to like my my volunteer. But like maybe like in my friendships, the thing that I think a lot of my friends tell me that they love about me is that like my honesty. Like I'm I'm and I'm almost like brutally honest to a fault. Like I'd I I used to joke I I could never be in sales. I'm too honest to be a salesman, uh a salesperson, saleswoman. Um so um like I I am a very honest person, I'm a very open person, and I think like that's a strength in in personal relationships. Uh I mean it can also be a weakness. So um I don't know if that's because I'm autistic or it's hard to say. Like it's it's hard to personality. Blame it on the autism versus like that's just part of who I am.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, yeah, I get that. Like when uh like certain things will come up, like I'm like, well, I totally could blame that on my blindness right now, but uh, I feel like I'll be using it as a cob out or like feeling dishonest because I think that was just me.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

It's interesting that that you say that though. Like I I pause a lot and go, like, like I I tend to not, especially outside of work, like I I don't ever want to blame something on my autism or my ADHD or say that it's because of this. Like, even though I think I know that a lot of things are um or it stems from that, like it feels like a cop-out to like try to use the disability as an excuse. And it's like I and I think that's like maybe that's like the guilt emotion maybe trying to trigger where it's like we feel guilty that we can't do the thing, or that we don't want to do the thing, um, or we think that we should be able to do the thing, and so like that like creates the shame factor, and then we don't we just live with it, we deal with it. But I don't know, it's it's a fine line because like you don't want to be that person who's like, woe is me. Uh like we want our independence, so it's like when do you decide to ask for help and when do you decide to just suck it up, buttercup?

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yeah. And uh like when I say like blame it more so, I don't mean it like that much in a bad way. Like, I'll kinda approach it in the from a humor perspective.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Like, oh, that's just one of the things I have to deal with. Like, if I'm looking for something and like I FaceTime or use be my eyes, the the app, I'll be like, I'm sorry, I can I can't find this. And it was somewhere very, very obvious. And I was like, I wish I I wish like like that was that was so obvious. Like, I don't know how I didn't see that. I can't blame that on my vision, really. It was right there, and like but often I'll try and embrace it and just laugh at it.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

I mean the inability to like find something, like if you ask me to find something specific on my desk, or like even like dig excuse me, dig through my backpack and find something at the bottom of my backpack, like forget it. Like, I probably won't be successful. I've maybe learned to like ask for more specific instructions, right? Like when I can't find something that's like supposedly right in front of me, like uh, like I especially with my husband, because my husband, I think, maybe gets irritated with me sometimes. He's like, Rachel, it's right there. And I'm like, I I need you to be more specific, right there, where? Like, what color is it? How big is it? Like, is it on the table? Is it like is it below something? Do I need to lift something else up to get to it? Like, give me the step-by-step instructions, like of how I'm supposed to find this, because I'm on the struggle bus, like, not finding the thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah, and I'm not how I am like my dad. Like, if he wants me to get something for him, he has he knows he has to give me like very, very specific instructions. He's like, All right, so you know where this is, go to the left of it on the third shelf down, but three-quarters of the way, like, be very precise, or probably not gonna find it.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Right. Well, it's like the that's an okay accommodation to ask for, though, right? Like, I think this idea that, like, hey, I need more specific instructions, like I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Yeah, like personal as well as work life home. Like, if you don't want to give me an accommodation, that I'm probably not gonna do as good of a job. Like it's just kind of how it is. Like, so do you you I know you use the Rosalind's glasses. Are there any other like assistive technologies that you tend to use? I know you I'm not sure. Is that service animal considered assisted technology?

SPEAKER_02 55:16

You know, I was gonna bring him up. Like, he's not technology, he's an assistive animal. Like I maybe not a device, like he's not really a device or a technology. Um obviously, like I I do have a service animal. His name is Oberon, he's an Irish wolfhound. Um, he's not quite two, so we are just um to the point where we are getting him fitted for his balance brace, and he's um he's already pretty good at helping me with balance going up and downstairs, but I think once we get his balance brace, it'll be even better. I'll actually be able to like rely on him more and you know put some weight into him when necessary um to keep me upright when I'm going up and downstairs because I don't want any more surgeries. Um, and then um I mean the rose color glasses are obviously a big one. I also use um when I go out in public places, I use some earplugs, and I I have actually two different kinds. I have one kind called loop and another call kind called Vibe, V-I-B-E, and L-O-O-P. You can buy both of them online, um, like Amazon type things. Um, and so depending on my environment or my situation, I will put these in to kind of help with like noise, sensory, auditory overload. Um even like when I'm like in a nice restaurant at a like dinner table, um I can hear like eight conversations around me. And like if if you wanted me to like tune in on one of them and tell you what they're talking about, I could, but it's like it's a lot of noise, right? That it's like and it's hard for my brain to filter it out. And so the the earplugs help with that, and so depending on the situation that I'm in, um, I've got two different ones that like just kind of help mute a little bit, and so like I can still have a conversation with people at my own table, and then I have another one that's like more like just block it all out. Um, but uh like I use I use music a lot to help me regulate, self-regulate. Um, I use, like I said, the essential oils to help self-regulate. Um, and I think those are you know accommodations that I use in a lot of situations to help me deal with whatever's going on inside my brain and body to help me be at that air quote optimal arousal state.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

So, what environments or situations do you feel like you you do best in? I know you were saying that a crowded restaurant, like a lot of especially auditory stimulus, is not ideal, but what would be, or what are some environments you do well in?

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Yeah, um quiet um is obviously pretty good for me. Like if if I'm in control of the music, that's great. Um, I don't like crowded spaces, like even if they're quiet, like where I'm being bumped into, like that creates a lot of like sensory stimulation for me that I find difficult to to um block out. I think lighting, um, it depends on what I'm doing, right? Like when I'm working, I feel like I actually need pretty bright lights. Otherwise, I feel kind of like but when I'm trying to wind down, I have like a whole wind down routine that my occupational therapist helped me with. Um, and so we we a lot of the lights, most of the lights in almost all of my house are all dimmable. Um and so that's that's helpful. Um to and we like we've got like Alexa set up in there so like I can like tell her to like dim any particular room to a certain percentage. Um I like I think those are probably some of the the big ones for me that I use like all the time, like personal, professional, etc. I think the chair that I sit in can actually make a big difference as well. So choice of seating um is is important. Um like there's just there can be a lot of different textures and different feelings and body sensations that you get from sitting in a chair because so much of your body is in contact with something. So um having choice of of chair um and finding one that works for me. And I will also tell you like, so at my desk, I have a sit-stand desk. So sometimes I sit, sometimes I stand, but I also have an exercise ball that I sometimes sit on when I want less sensory. Um, but the exercise ball too kind of induces more of like this bouncing sensation, which like invokes like your proprioceptive like awareness of like, where am I? Like, am I up? Am I down? Like, am I gonna fall over? Uh so like if I'm feeling overwhelmed, like the exercise ball can like actually make it worse, not better.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

So yeah, it's very interesting. You were talking about like the balance that goes along with your conditions. Because I I experienced like a similar scenario, but it's for different reasons because it's hard for me to see where I'm walking and the environment I'm in. So it's hard for my brain to anticipate how I need to like when and if I need to have extra support on certain part of my feet or like a certain like so it's it's interesting to hear how a very a completely different disability can experience a challenge and side effects almost, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

So I f I find some things to your point, is just like we have the eight sensory systems, and like anytime you mess with one of them, it can cause the others to be out of whack, out of balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Yeah, I find yeah, that can definitely be a challenge. Do you what are some things you do if you know of any that help with that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Like the proprioception?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Um so like swinging, um, like playground swing set, right? Is one of the things that my OT recommends. Um, and different people like different like sensations, like so merry-go-rounds can help like gain your or improve your proprioception, like the exercise ball can. But like if you're already in like a state where your proprioception is like out of whack, like getting on the exercise ball can almost be dangerous depending on how bad it is. So, like anything that like invokes the like vestibular part of your brain, like even standing up and spinning it around in circles, right? Like, remember when like you were a little kid? Did you ever do this like where you would like close your eyes and like spin around as fast as you can and then open it up and you'd be like, Woo! Like, right? Like, can you walk in a straight line? It's like the idea of like doing that, like at vestibular physical therapy, which I went to, it's a it's a very specialized kind of physical therapy. We do eye exercises, and it's literally like put a post-it note on the wall with like a letter, and I'm like supposed to focus on it and then like turn my head but keep my eye on the spot, you know, like or nodding up and down, like a lot of stuff like that, like learning like when you're your head or your body, and then you start to get more complicated. You stand on one leg and you do it, you stand on the other leg and do it, you stand with your feet together, you stand with your feet apart, you stand on like a squishy pad, and it like the movement of your head with the balancing is what kind of helps with it. So I'm not a vestibular physical therapist though, so please, you know, go see your exercise medical professional for advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

But I mean, that's interesting though, because in there's a lot of like at-home remedies that some people will just kind of stumble upon. So it's it's always nice to kind of share what works for some because it may help somebody, but also might not for others. So it's just always good to kind of share that knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

So how how has Oberon your your service dog helped you? Like, especially like I saw you at the conference in Chicago with him. Like, how has he helped you in those kinds of environments?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:25

So obviously, like he helps me for balance-based tasks and pressure-based tasks. So with balance, it's literally like keeping me upright when I'm walking, especially on surfaces. And then pressure-based tasks is really more associated with my PTSD. Um, so I have a tendency to start to dissociate. Um, and he can sense when I'm already dissociating or about to dissociate, and he'll come apply pressure, and like basically it's kind of like a grounding mechanism to kind of bring you back to reality and like we're here, we're we're in this moment right now, it's okay. That sort of thing. So I mean, I think it's also like it's awesome to kind of have your best friend right there with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Yeah, that's really nice. My like at my as you know, I have a great day, and he's not trained in any of that, but he's always once a lean, like feeling like his whole body weight on my leg. I've gotten used to it now, but he's when I was first got him, he knocked me over a few times. Yeah. Yeah, I can I can definitely see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

Opposite effect of what you want with a balance-based service dog, but don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Yeah, I like I can see how it's kind of like a feeling like a security blanket, like to make you feel grounded. Yeah. That's pretty cool. So in terms of your autism, do you feel like he helps you in any way regarding that?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

Um, you know, like I think Obviously, like the some of the balance stuff is obviously related to um the autism. So I I do think he definitely has been helping with that. Um I and I think the that social situation, right? That like like being in anxiety-producing environments can actually trigger PTSD for me um responses. And so like having him there for that. But um, and again, it's like it's hard like when you've got multiple diagnoses to like say like this is because of autism and this is because of ADHD and this is because of PTSD. But um, I think as a whole, he definitely helps me with these specific tasks.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Is there any kind of advice you want to share with anyone with autism or any autistic people to get both forms of language in there? Any advice you would want to share with any of those viewers?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Yeah, I think for me, uh, like especially being late diagnosed and like a a woman in technology, um, like not being afraid to ask for accommodations. Like when you need help, like it's okay, like to ask for help. Um and and I also would say like it's okay to set boundaries. Um and what is a boundary for you is going to be different than it is for the next person. But I think like that would be my two biggest pieces of advice. Like, it's okay to ask for for help, and it's okay to say no in its most simple form.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

That's awesome. Well, thank you, Rachel, so much for for joining me on this first episode of this podcast. It was a great person to start with, and I'm really glad you were able to share all that great stuff. And I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Thank you, Taylor, for having me. I appreciate the opportunity, and hopefully, people find it inspiring and useful.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

So Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Rachel.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Hi, Taylor. Hi.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Thank you all for joining us while we explore accessibility and disability. If you enjoyed this podcast, check out more episodes and show notes at accessiblecommunity.org/slash podcasts. Remember, be accessible, be inclusive.