Access and Protect: Anne Kershaw and the Opening of Antarctica

“Girls weren’t allowed” in the aeronautical engineering classes Anne Kershaw wanted as a student in Glasgow. She studied civil engineering instead, at night, and sent out résumés as “Mr. Campbell” because firms wouldn’t interview a woman. She got the job—and later built an Antarctic air operation second only to the U.S. government’s. 

Anne’s journey south began with her husband, Polar Medal recipient Giles Kershaw, and other founders of Adventure Network International. After Giles died in an Antarctic flying accident, Anne transformed loss into a mission: building the aviation, medical and emergency capabilities needed to bring other expeditioners safely home. Under her leadership, ANI transformed access to Antarctica’s interior. 

Anne then helped establish the International Association of Antarctica Tour Operators and was appointed MBE by Queen Elizabeth II for service to Antarctic aviation. In 2019, she founded the Polar Commitment Foundation to help national Antarctic programs coordinate air, sea and overland logistics. The goal: reduce duplication, costs and environmental impact while freeing resources for science. 

Rob explains why Anne’s mission became personal when, injured 97 miles from the South Pole, he heard a Twin Otter approaching across the ice —the exact outcome Anne had envisioned decades earlier. 

Learn more at polarcommitment.org. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:11

You know, and Antarctica has historically been a remarkable example of the countries putting aside differences without having to resolve them. The Antarctic Treaty didn't make countries agree with one another, it just created a framework where they could cooperate despite disagreement.

Dan Smith 0:29

That's Anne Kershaw, one of the unsung heroes of the modern age of Antarctica. And today we're going to hear her remarkable story about opening and protecting the last great wilderness on Earth. Hi everyone, I'm Dan Smith, and welcome to Thin Ice. Rob and I are excited to share Anne's story because she helped pioneer civilian aviation and logistics in Antarctica's interior. And she spent decades working to ensure that greater access does not come at the expense of the continent itself. Forty years ago, access to Antarctica's interior was extraordinarily difficult, unless she were part of a government program. In 1986, when Rob and Roger Meir and Gareth Wood completed their 900-mile march to the South Pole, they were on their own. But today, private operators carry people by ship to the Antarctic Peninsula and by aircraft deep into the interior. During the last season, late 2025 to early 2026, more than 85,000 private visitors went ashore, almost all around the peninsula and nearby islands. But on top of that, about 1,100 people traveled into the interior. Those figures come from the International Association of Antarctica Tour Operators, or IATO, which promotes safe and environmentally responsible private travel. Anne was among the founding members. But the heart of Anne's story is deeply personal. In the 1980s, she fell in love with a groundbreaking Antarctic pilot, Giles Kershaw, and then with Antarctica itself. Their story would encompass adventure, partnership, and profound loss. Anne went from knowing almost nothing about Antarctica to helping lead one of its pioneering private logistics operations. And today, through her Polar Commitment Foundation, she works to improve coordination, support essential research, and reduce the environmental impact of human activity. We'll hear her story and then consider who governs Antarctica, who decides who can operate there, and how do we preserve this global treasure while benefiting from its science and the passion the continent inspires? Before Anne joins us, let's welcome my co-host, Robert Swan. And Rob, you knew Ann and her husband Giles, and she has been instrumental in helping you advance the 2041 mission to preserve Antarctica. So one quick question for you to further set the scene. What has Anne meant to the protection of Antarctica and what makes her such an important voice in the Antarctic story?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Well, honestly, without uh Annie, I wouldn't possibly do very much in life. I mean, she's been an absolutely key part of everything we've done for at least the last 15 years, possibly for the last 40 years, to do with 2041, our mission to preserve Antarctica. And she's been the engine room behind all of that since unfortunately we lost Giles. So without Annie, not much would be happening, Dan.

Dan Smith 3:27

And you're not the only one who thinks that, Rob, because uh let me add that Queen Elizabeth awarded in the MBE, member of the British Empire, in 2003 for her service to Antarctic Aviation. And with that buildup in, and insufficient as it may be, let me say welcome to Thin Ice.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Thank you, Dan. I'm I'm honored to be on and uh what an incredible introduction. I was beginning to wonder who that was.

Dan Smith 3:51

Well, Robin, I know. So if you don't mind, let's start at the beginning. Who were you before Giles and Antarctica became part of your life?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

A very interesting question. Um, I was part of a family of four children, brought up outside the city of Glasgow, um, sheltered upbringing with my parents, and uh studied through school, always wanted to do something a little different, and I wanted to be a neurotical engineer. But at that time in Glasgow, Scotland, you you couldn't take any of those classes. Girls weren't allowed in those classes. And so I decided to do civil engineering, but again, I had to do technical drawing to get into that particular group in university, and I had to do it at night school, they wouldn't allow me to take it in school. Um, finished civil engineering, joined a company in Glasgow after sending out a resume with a Mr. My name was Campbell at the time, I sent out a resume with Mr. A. Campbell, and that was the only way I could get an interview. So I think in those very early days, I'd already been introduced to that world that was predominantly men, and for some reason decided to take that path. I was with the company for several years, and then there were some strikes in the UK, and aggregates were hard to come by, and myself and another young engineer were laid off, and I took a summer job with an airline, and that's where I met Giles. Um, so it just a path that I hadn't really looked at. I remember being in high school thinking, one day I'm gonna go to London. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to London, and I had it on my wall, and that's what I was planning to do. And who thought that my path would be so incredible now looking back? Um but that was my introduction to the man's world, but then in the introduction to Giles through the airline was completely different. Here was this man who was funny, he was a raconteur, he was a pilot, and he did these crazy things. You know, he traveled with Rob all over the place and off to the Antarctic every year. And although I knew the Antarctic was the bottom of the world and the Arctic was the top, I really didn't know anything different than that. I had no clue really what went on there, why they were going there, what was happening. And in fact, and I received one letter. Jazz was on Rob's expedition to Antarctica, and I received a letter in the mail, I still have it, and it says something along the lines of ship sank, everyone's safe, call you when I get back to dry land, love you, and that was it. I'm sitting in my house in Glasgow thinking, what? And then it life just became crazier from there. Uh, you know, working with Rob, living with Giles was just, it was an adventure every day. So it was a fascinating introduction to it. And oddly enough, the very first time I'd been camping in my life was with Giles in Antarctica. We took a small Cessna, he was looking with Mike McDowell and some others to try and find some new ski areas. And I had altitude sickness, so they left me in the Cessna and they went off. Uh, sorry, they left me in a tent and they went off in the Cessna. And uh I looking back, I think if anything had happened, nobody would have found me. It was my very first camping experience in Antarctica. It was absolutely incredible. But uh I've learned, I hopefully I've learned a lot since then.

Dan Smith 7:19

Well, you you actually uh you you you took my next question and and thank you for doing that. Uh the checks in the mail for the setup. Um I was gonna say that your first uh visit to Antarctica was at Patriot Hills, and I think that's relatively close to the peninsula, but it's still inside the interior. And and and it's fascinating that they left you left you in a tent while they went out to explore for blue ice. We're gonna talk about blue ice in just a second, but when you're in the tent, what what do you remember seeing or hearing? Uh uh how did it feel for for for a gal from Glasgow, the first time being in Antarctica and and ultimately all by yourself for a while.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, and the first time camping, and you know, we grew up in Glasgow in the city, we didn't camp. And I remember being in the tent and they left me a radio and said, here, call us, no idea how to use it, and left me some dried food that probably nobody could eat. And I remember being in the tent and I could hear every snowflake fall. It was so incredible. The silence was deafening, and I could hear every single snowflake drop. And I remember thinking, This is God's land. This is this is somewhere people need to see. You know, you open the tent door, it's white as far as the eye can see, there are no trees. You're not looking down, you're looking up. And you realize then that nature's fully in control, that we have no control over what nature decides. And it was frightening in one way, but comforting in another. It was it was the most incredible experience, and I think that's probably why Antarctica got into my blood, and there was no way to remove it after that.

Dan Smith 8:58

Rob, let me ask you when you first knew the Kershaws, what what stood out about them and about the Antarctic world they inhabited?

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Well, I'd known Giles for a long time and got up to all kinds of this chief together, and then suddenly this absolutely beautiful, amazing lady uh Anne came into Giles' life, and I think my first thing was to be quite jealous, really. I mean, you know, how did Giles land this incredible lady into his life? And Annie was always somebody who wasn't really sort of particularly engaged at the beginning in what we did, and um, very supportive of Giles. They hope it doesn't upset Annie to say, but they truly loved each other. You don't see that enough in this world, and it was just beautiful to see that and very inspiring to see that. But at the beginning, it was Giles, Giles, Giles about Antarctica, not not Annie in any way at all.

Dan Smith 9:59

Let's move on with with the chronology of the story. And Anne, can you tell us about the creation of Adventure Network International? What was it? What were Giles and the early AI Adventure Network International team trying to accomplish?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Um, yes, I I wasn't there in the very beginning. It was Giles, Pat Morrow, and Martin Williams. And the initial reason for the trip to the Antarctic was that Pat Morrow wanted to climb the seven summits. Pat was a photographer and climber, Martin Williams was a climber, and then obviously Giles was a pilot. So there was no intention, I don't believe, and they they may say something different, but I don't think there was an intention to ever have a company. The intention was to let's go to the Antarctic, climb the seven summits. And then when they did that first trip, they realized other people wanted to do the same thing. So, hey, let's take our friends and go back. But logistics were expensive, you know, fuel, charting an aircraft, all those different things. So I don't think there was an intention to make money. It was just let's spread the cost and divide it by how many people want to go. So they'd gone down there a couple of years following um Pat Morris's successful uh ascent of all the seven summits, including Vincent, which is the highest one in the Antarctic. And then I think there was a sort of, yeah, this could be a company. Maybe we could do this for a living. Um, in the early days, they didn't make any money, and you know, it was pioneering in Antarctica and through Chile and all those other pieces. There were no permits in place, there was no government support or otherwise. And I think it really was, it was pioneering, but it was a big learning curve for them when they first went down there. Um, they went in on a ski equipped aircraft to try turbo, used that on the first trip, and then took the ski equipped twin otters beyond that to support the mission of getting people into Vincent. And the only thing they did at that time really was Mount Vincent. So it was an early group of friends wanting to take on an adventure, wanting to explore and do something different. And uh that was how they came together.

Dan Smith 12:07

And I heard you mentioned something about blue ice, um, that they were trying to find it's some blue ice. What is the significance of blue ice? Uh what is what does it mean for landing a wheeled aircraft, not a ski aircraft? You know, what did what did that make possible?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

So until that time, anyone heading into the Antarctic, you either came down by ship, put your all the supplies, a scientific base would put the supplies ashore, and then traverse them across with Skadoos and other vehicles to get to wherever they needed to be. Likewise, if they're putting out a cache of fuel to get an aircraft from point A to point B and needed fuel in between. What the wheeled aircraft did, which landed on blue ice, so blue ice is a natural occurrence in Antarctica that's created by the clearance of snow from winds off the s, normally off the side of some mountains, and then it clears the snow off itself, and you're left with this blue ice cover, which allows an aircraft to land with wheels. The ability of the wheeled aircraft, then that really changed the logistics in the continent. Suddenly, the interior was no longer accessible only by ski-equipped aircraft or by ship. Naturally occurring blue ice surfaces then became the runways. And the blue ice runways didn't simply make the Antarctic easier to reach, they changed what was possible. They allowed larger aircraft to move people, equipment and fuel directly into the interior. And it dramatically expanded both scientific and other forms of access. So Adventure Network was the first company or the first group, even from other Antarctic operations. They were the first people to land a wheeled aircraft, which at that time was a DC-4, from Punta Arenas, Chile to Patriot Hills in Antarctica, landing in a blue ice. So it was a huge opening of the continent at a time where nobody thought it could be done.

Dan Smith 13:57

People of my generation will remember Monty Python fondly.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

And now for something completely different.

Dan Smith 14:04

And I believe one of the members, uh Michael McHalen, actually called on you. He was doing a TV series, Pole to Poll, and he got stuck trying to get to Antarctica, and he called on you. And I I can't help but smile thinking about Monty Python and Antarctica. But what do you remember about that? And what was the impact on the wider public seeing a beloved private citizen reach the interior of this unknown foreign alien continent?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

I think it was fascinating. Yes, I had a call from the BBC, and I'd just started working with Adventure Network. And we started working with them. And I think for Adventure Network and for the Antarctic, I think that possibly was the start of maybe there need to be some guidelines in place because all of a sudden it was on all over the world. There was a series called, I think it was called Around the World, and the Antarctic piece was very, very popular. They flew in, they'd come into Chile, flew in from Punta Renus to Patriot Hills, onward to the Pole, and did a whole series. And I think that was opening up for the for the public to say, oh, perhaps we can go there. We didn't know that anyone except for scientists could visit the Antarctic. So for Adventure Network, it was definitely a it was definitely a great exposure and allowed the general public to see somebody is allowing private individuals to head into Antarctica.

Dan Smith 15:44

I know that uh in in the early days of Adventure Network International, it it was Giles and and two friends who were getting this company up and running. You were happily married with Giles. If you're okay telling us, can you share what happened to Giles?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yes, no, I I'm happy to share that with you, Dan. So Giles was down in the Antarctic on an expedition with National Geographic. They're doing some filming of mountains and climbing down there. And he was flying a gyrocopter, which is a very, very basic aircraft. It's like a helicopter with no casing, and they were testing it down there. Um he'd just dropped off one climber and coming back off the mountain, and he got caught by a catabatic wind. That's a wind that a severe wind that comes down the side of the mountain. It overturned this, and I use the term very loosely, aircraft, and he crashed to the ground. He survived about 20 minutes, and and then that was it. I had a call in the UK. I was with his mother at the time. We got a call to say this has happened, and neither of us could believe it would be true because Giles was indestructible. I mean, he was Giles. Long story short, is Giles was he died in the continent. We got permission for him to be buried there. He was buried in a place called Jones Sound. Um, he still remains here today. They named the mountain after him. Um and I I now pretend it's mine because if you're not here, you don't get to say anything. So I pretend it's my Kershaw range. But he he's there because that's where he would want to be. I think there's nowhere else he would rather find a final resting place than the Antarctic. Um after he passed, you know, people said, Well, why, you know, what happened from there? What allowed you to go on, and what what helped you continue with this? And it's an interesting story because it was I actually ended up in Adventure Network purely by default. As soon as that uh it sunk in that Giles had passed away, my my main concern was I'm not interested in anything Antarctica. Take it, get rid of it, don't ever want to hear about it again. But he didn't have a will, he had no will in place, so I couldn't sell it, I couldn't give it away, I couldn't do anything with it. We lived in Hong Kong at the time. I came back to England, we had a house in England. And over the sort of weeks, two weeks prior to going down, I went down to the Antarctic for his funeral. We we we took a priest from Chile, a couple of friends, we built a cross, and we trekked across the Jones Ice Shelf, which at that time was a huge crevass field. We should we should all have all have died, but we didn't. So we went in there, came back, and I realized I could do something with this. I could create a safety net so that anyone else going to the Antarctic comes back to their family. Because my questions at the time were why didn't somebody save them? Why was there not a doctor? Why didn't they get them out? And really it was because there was no infrastructure in place for private individuals to be helped in in cases of emergencies. So my idea was again, like the others, not to make some pots of money, but to make sure we had the best aircraft, the best pilots, the best doctors, the best staff, so that anyone traveling to the Antarctic could come back safely to their families. And hopefully over a period of time, that's you know what I did. We we built an incredible company that had we're the second largest air operator in the Antarctic next to the American government. Um, we fought a lot of battles in the early days to keep Adventure Network alive, to stop it being shut down. The governments didn't want tourism in the interior. And I think I think from the death of Giles, um, you know, and my father once said to me, when when Giles passed away, I said, you know, where's the good in this? He always seemed to find the good in things. And I said, Where's the good in this? And he said, This is the worst thing that'll ever happen to you in your life, but you're ahead of everyone else. From here on forward, your life's gonna be a lot easier. And I think from that, you know, I ended up with this sort of steel rod in my spine and just stepped up and moved ahead. And my goal was to build this company, and and hopefully that's what I achieved over time.

Dan Smith 20:16

I'm so sorry, Ann, and and thank you for sharing that story. Um, and and thank you for uh all of the remarkable thing, remarkable things you've done since. Rob, you were familiar, you were friends with the Kershaws at the time. What do you remember about that time and and uh uh Adventure Network International becoming the the second largest air operator in Antarctica next to the US government?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Well, you remember from the thin ice first couple of episodes, Dan, that Giles was integral to the footsteps of Scott. He was the person that created Southern Quest, our ship, to end up being you know an aircraft carrier and all kinds of things that he he was an integral part of that. And as Annie said, I can't remember where I was. Well, actually I do. I was in Australia, and I heard the news that Giles had gone down, and I didn't believe it because Giles, as Annie said, he he was sort of indestructible, he he wasn't somebody that was going to make a mistake. I I was deeply sad, but then I saw what uh Annie's just said is her grit and her determination, which was enormous, and she's underplayed it as normal. Um, but this was this was like 10, 12 years of incredible battle on her own to create adventure network into a company that uh was her dream and and was was delivering uh people in safety to Antarctica to do expeditions. No one remembers those 13 years that she put. In to make it possible for people now to go and walk to the South Pole, hundreds of people making those expeditions, and without what Annie did uh with Adventure Network International, no one would be doing it, or they'd have to end up doing it as we did it, you know, to buy a ship and go and live there for a year in Antarctica. So what I saw after the loss of Giles was just true grit, true determination, dealing with all kinds of upsets. And you know, Annie and I have been working now for 15 years. She's right. Um, she's got absolute steel in her. Um, and it it's such a great story, and such a great story of success. So bravo, Annie.

Dan Smith 22:48

Thank you, Rob. So Ann, we we we we know that Antarctica has no single government. Though there are claims, and there's the Antarctic Treaty uh in the Madrid Protocol. But for a listener starting from scratch, who makes decisions and who enforces the rules about being in Antarctica?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Um, that's a very good point, uh Dan, and something that a lot of people don't know. Antarctica doesn't have a government. No one owns the Antarctic. It's governed through an international system called the Antarctic Treaty System. Countries that are treaty parties to that system, they meet and agree the rules, and their own governments are responsible for putting the rules into effect and enforcing them. So there's an international decision making but national enforcement. And I think that's an important, um, a really important distinction between the two. IATO is another, I see it as a governing body in the Antarctic.

Dan Smith 23:46

IATO, you'll recall, is the International Association of Antarctic tour operators, the private parties in the mix. And Anne was a founding member.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

It was created in 1991. A small group of us operating in the Antarctic came together and said, we recognize that if tourism was going to grow, the industry needed to take responsibility for how it operated. So rather than wait for governments to regulate every single detail, they came together to establish common standards for safe and environmentally responsible operations. I think IATO's greatest contribution has been turning that principle into practical action. We share operational knowledge, we establish common procedures, we coordinate visits, we train people, and we create a bridge between the tourism industry, science, and governments. But there's an important boundary. Operators can and should take responsibility for the way they operate. Governments must take responsibility for the management of the Antarctic system as a whole. Industry should bring the operational expertise that they have and take responsibility for its own footprint. We do that already. But governments must provide the framework, set the boundaries, and make decisions about cumulative impacts and the collective future of Antarctica. So looking at that much bigger picture. Ultimately, we need both. We need IATO and we need the Antarctic Treaty System. We need responsible operators, but we also need responsible governance. And I think that's something that we struggle a little bit with nowadays, but we're getting closer to all the time.

Dan Smith 25:22

Is there anything in your experience, Ann, that you think IATO does especially well? And what do you see as opportunities for doing better in the future?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

IATO can help governments make better decisions because it can bring the operational information from the field, but it can't replace the governments. Because at the end of the day, the governments have the mandate to make decisions in the collective interest. IATO has done incredible things over the years. We're collecting information, we're looking at CO2 emissions, we're tracking and monitoring all the IATO-registered vessels and aircraft and people that go to the continent. So we have a great database of what's going on there. But at the end of the day, the governments have to be working with us to make sure that that government mechanism is in place and that IATO is supported in a structural way so that any decisions we make are something that the governments can support and be part of too.

Dan Smith 26:18

That's a wonderful segue to the next question because I really want to share with listeners what you're doing today. And I believe it was in 2019, around that time, that you really began to focus on uh what you were just speaking about, uh the the interaction between private operators and governments and coordinating the things that happen in Antarctica. Can you tell us about Polar Commitment Foundation, the the entity that you established, what is its mission?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Polar Commitment was founded back in 2019, and when I look at the challenges facing Antarctica today, I think we need to look beyond the science itself. The environment is becoming increasingly unpredictable, costs are higher, national Antarctic budgets are definitely under growing pressure. Yet behind every scientific discovery is an enormous logistical effort that makes it all possible. And I think that's where Polar Commitment Foundation comes in. I wanted to create an organization that could help the Antarctic community work together more effectively, making the logistical part that supports the science and all the other activities more sustainable, efficient, and coordinated. We, Polar Commitment, we're an independent non-profit organization. Our role is to support, not replace the work of National Antarctic programs. We don't conduct any scientific research ourselves. Instead, we focus on how we can make the systems that support the science work better, using resources more efficiently and responsibly. When you think about every flight, every vessel movement, the shipment of equipment needed to operate in the Antarctic, you begin to really appreciate how much planning and resources are involved. Much of this is still organized independently by individual programs. I think there is a real opportunity to work more closely together and share those resources and find ways of doing more with a lot less impact. Bringing the National Antarctic programs, the researchers, the transport operators, and the private sector closer together, we can make better use of the existing resources and improve the way people and equipment move around the continent itself. One of the things I'm particularly passionate about is developing a collaborative logistics platform that could help identify some of those opportunities to share, whether that's aircraft or vessel space, cargo infrastructure, even guides. Even small improvements in coordination could make an enormous difference. They could help reduce the costs and the greenhouse gas emissions and free up more of the resources for really good science. It takes trust, it'll take some strong relationships and a willingness for people to work together that perhaps haven't done in the past. If we build those connections across the international Antarctic community, that's at the heart of what polar commitment does. For me, protecting Antarctica is about more than just preserving the extraordinary environment. That's important. But I also think it's about preserving our ability to study it, understand it, and learn from it. That by working together and making better use of the resources that are already in place, we can help ensure that Antarctica remains a continent dedicated to peace and science as we as we wanted, and the benefit of humankind now and for future generations.

Dan Smith 29:42

I want to zoom out now to the a bigger picture. Uh governments and private parties. What responsibility do you think comes with making a place such as Antarctica accessible? How do we decide which access is worth the associated environmental cost? And how do you offset that cost, or do you, or can you?

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I don't think the question is, you know, which access to Antarctica is worth environmental cost. Every journey has a cost. The question is whether we can make that access as purposeful and as low impact as possible. Antarctica is too important to simply close the door and say nobody can go there, but it's also too important for us to ignore the footprint of getting there. We need to do more with less impact through better coordination, shared logistics, greater efficiency, and responsible operations. And I think that's where polar commitment comes in. You know, we're looking at, because ultimately I believe access should be responsible, purposeful, and increasingly efficient, with the objective of preserving Antarctica for future generations, while continuing to enable the science, which is hugely important, cooperation, education, and other activities that contribute to understanding and protecting it. And I think that's the role that Polar Commitment is looking to do.

Dan Smith 31:03

That siren you just heard in the background was not a sound effect from me, but it was a timely warning and sounding of the alarm. So moving on. Rob, do you have a view on um the the responsibilities that come with access to Antarctica?

SPEAKER_02 31:17

The only way to really preserve Antarctica for science and peace is that all parties should be engaged. It can't just be somebody like myself and Annie on our own on the outside saying, hey, well, here's a good idea, why can't you do this? So what she's done is to pioneer a pathway to working with governments. And that uh in the future, whether it be between 2041 and 2048, when the world will start to decide, you know, what is the future of Antarctica. Uh, Annie's opened a huge door to help that mission be successful. And that we've known each other now for 40 years, and we're just getting warmed up. You know, we're we're not going to quit on this. And what she's produced is is a huge step in the right direction and an important one.

Dan Smith 32:11

So there's no stopping, but we are reaching the end of the episode. And let me close with this question for Anne. There was an all-too rare media interview. I think it was uh in a Scottish newspaper. Um, but you said, quote, Antarctica felt like home, but we must remember it is somebody else's home. Unquote. Do you recall what you meant when you said that? It feels like home, but it's somebody else's home?

SPEAKER_00 32:38

I I think for me, and obviously that was a very personal piece. I think for me it felt like I have a responsibility here, I'm safe here, I'm I'm living here, but almost like a rental, you know, it's it's somewhere we don't own it. And nature is fully in control. If you've been to the Antarctic, I think everyone would agree that. But it is someone else's place, and we we owe it to the Antarctic to preserve it, to look after it, and to be responsible. We need to be, you know, uh governors or custodians of that continent and not just use it for you know, whether it's tourism or whether it's science. We have to be responsible about looking after it. And um, and I think Rob has done so much, and I learned so much from Rob over the years of being in the Antarctic and what could be done and teaching people about it so they go back and make differences in their own communities, in their own countries. But I think there's a lot to take from the Antarctic scientifically that we can be looking at, but uh there's a lot to leave there, and as Rob said, predominantly just for peace and science.

Dan Smith 33:43

And we're going to give you the last word, but I want to ask Rob, do you have any parting thoughts before we wrap up the episode?

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yes, just uh an image for our listeners is that uh when I was uh 97 miles from the South Pole, unfortunately my hip dislocated and I was lying uh in a lot of pain uh on the ice there. And I just remember thinking that all the work that Annie's done and all the work that Giles did uh meant that at some stage an aeroplane would land next to me, 97 miles from the South Pole, in the middle of a continent twice the size of Australia, and that I would get home safely. And that was Annie's dream when she was at Giles' passing in Antarctica. And Annie, what you did saved my life, it got me home, and uh I can't thank you enough. And the noise of the twin otter coming into land, I was thinking of Giles, thinking of you. So your mission for me was a huge success. So thank you, Annie.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Thank you, Rob.

Dan Smith 34:57

And is there anything that I haven't asked about that you would like to leave our listeners with?

SPEAKER_00 35:03

I think just going back, I I often refer to the Antarctic Treaty because I think it's such an incredible example of what can be done. You know, and Antarctica has historically been a remarkable example of the countries putting aside differences without having to resolve them. The Antarctic Treaty didn't make countries agree with one another, it just created a framework where they could cooperate despite disagreement. And science became the common language. And Antarctica became something that was bigger than individual, national, or personal interests. But I don't think goodwill alone is enough for the pressures that we face today. The spirit of cooperation remains absolutely essential, but it has to be supported by practical cooperation. Perhaps the real question is not whether the Antarctic spirit is strong enough, but whether we're prepared to apply that spirit with the same determination today as those countries did back in 1959.

Dan Smith 35:59

That's an excellent question. We're working on making the answer affirmative. It was great speaking with you, Ann, and thank you so much for sharing your story, and thank you for your service to the world by encouraging responsible coordination and safe travel in Antarctica. Rob, I know I'm going to see you person in person in November in Puente Arenas for your last 2041 leadership expedition. And that opens the doors to new chapters for you, fostering commitments to sustainability and protecting the last great wilderness on Earth. To our listeners, thank you very much for joining. There's lots more to come on Thin Ice, and we hope you'll join us. If you enjoyed the show, please give us a like and leave a review. We'd love to hear from you. Thin Ice is a production of Robert Swan and Dan Smith, and we sincerely thank Bernadette de Seattle for keeping this train on the track. Until next time, keep Earthwild, be kind, and chill out.