Hannah Putjato: The Lash Market Has Shrunk

This week on Beyond The Tweezers, I'm joined by the founder of London Lash, Hanna Putjato. 

From arriving in the UK from Belarus speaking almost no English, to building one of the biggest lash brands in the world, Hanna shares the story behind the business that so many lash artists know today.

This episode is sponsored by London Lash, the go-to brand for professional lash products, education, and tools designed to help artists achieve consistent, long-lasting results.

Enjoy an exclusive listener discount on your next order: 20% off with code KARIS20

*T&Cs apply.

Shop London Lash: https://londonlashpro.com/?utm_source=podcastsponsorship&utm_medium=videos&utm_campaign=behindthetweezers&utm_content=episode11

We talk about her early days working in a factory, completing beauty courses without understanding the language, and how beauty became the way she learned English. Hanna shares the moment she ordered thousands of lash trays from Alibaba, unknowingly filling her home with stock, and how that accidental leap became the beginning of her business journey.

We also discuss how Lady Lash became London Lash, the surprising way the brand got its name, and why Hanna believes some of her best business ideas have come from listening to the people around her.

In this honest and emotional conversation, we dive into the realities of building a global brand, navigating COVID, making difficult decisions as a business owner, and the lessons she's learned from leading a growing team.

We also talk about the current state of the lash industry, why the market has changed so dramatically over the past few years, the rise of lash lifts and the wellness trend, and what beauty professionals should be focusing on if they want to stay relevant and successful in today's industry.

Plus, a surprise from Hanna’s team leaves her unexpectedly emotional as we get to see a side of her that many people have never seen before.

This episode is packed with honesty, business lessons, industry insights, and the inspiring story behind one of the most recognised global brands in the beauty industry.

🎙️ Listen now and join us Beyond The Tweezers.

This episode is sponsored by London Lash, the go-to brand for professional lash products, education, and tools designed to help artists achieve consistent, long-lasting results.

Enjoy an exclusive listener discount on your next order: 20% off with code KARIS20

*T&Cs apply.

Shop London Lash: https://londonlashpro.com/?utm_source=podcastsponsorship&utm_medium=videos&utm_campaign=behindthetweezers&utm_content=episode11

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I didn't speak English. I very quickly developed a depression. And then what did you do after college? We didn't have much money. The only way you get better is by doing it.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

She was telling me that the market was shrinking. What was your vision for London Lash where you realised that this lash extension world is gonna blow up? You just need to start everything from scratch. How did you overcome that? This episode of Beyond the Tweezers is brought to you by London Lash, a brand that I've trusted and used throughout my entire journey as a lash artist and trainer, and one you'll always find in my lash room every single day. Hey my lovelies, welcome back to Beyond the Tweezers. So in this episode, the studio may look a little bit different, but it's because I took one big suitcases, two bags all the way up to London, so I was able to film this episode for you. I actually filmed two episodes in this studio. But today's guest is the one and only Hannah, the owner and founder of London Lash. We sit down and we talk things, lash market, building her brand, her story, her insight, the things that she feels like lash artists should be focusing on, what she's noticed as being a brand owner, what's actually happening in the industry and what we should be focusing on. It was a really inspirational, beautiful conversation. I love Hannah. I've known Hannah for quite a while, and of course, I do work with her as a London lash trainer, but I'm so excited that you get to see the Hannah that we all see because she is a boss queen, but she's so humble, so kind, so friendly, so funny, and just a really beautiful soul. There is some emotional points in this conversation, really special moments, and yeah, I can't wait for you to dive in and be a part of it. So I really hope you enjoy it. Well, Hannah, welcome to Be on the Tweezers. I am really excited to have you because I actually feel like this is a 360 moment for me. Firstly, I remember being 18 and using London Lash for the very first time. Complete beginner, being introduced to it, falling in love with it, and I was like, this is the highest quality brand. I'm just gonna go with it. And I never went anywhere else, always stayed at 18. And another thing is that this time last year, we were sitting in London HQ, and I was saying to you, I've got an idea. I think I want to make a podcast, and you, it was me, you, Susanna, Abby, Directory's all sitting around. And I was like, I think this is what I want to do, and you were like, do it, you do it, and then fast forward, you're doing it. I don't know. I was thinking about it today, thinking, oh my god, that is a full circle moment, and it's just lovely to lovely to have you on here.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Thank you so much, Chris. I'm I'm so happy that you've started doing podcasts, by the way. Not many last technicians are going to YouTube, and I think it's a fantastic platform.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

I think it's to build and connect everyone together in an industry where we feel alone a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

And then hearing stories and having people on the podcast with different experiences, different knowledges, expertise. I think people just will. Well, I know the listeners have already said to me, like, I just love hearing that I can do whatever that person's achieved, you know. I can do anything, like they don't limit themselves. Yeah, and I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Feeling connected, isn't it, too? Do they listen it to when they're doing lashing?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

I think some do, yeah, but a lot, I think, on dog walks, um, walking, cleaning, anything really, driving, you know. Yes, I feel like whenever you have a little bit of your own time, it's nice.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, I do remember doing lashing and I felt lonely. I do remember that. It's just you and your cut in your clients, isn't it? You just don't have that community of lash technicians surrounding you unless you are going into teaching and doing something good.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Or if you work in a salon, but I feel like salons haven't really been the biggest places, anyway. A lot of people closing their salons as well, you know. It's been a yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And in the salons I was working in, there was not a community of lash technicians. No, no, everyone is doing something else, and you want a lash tech because lash tech's understanding, lash tech's problems is anything that you've gone through, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

They know you have, and then you can kind of join together. Exactly. But where I want to start today is I want to start about where you grew up, and if I'm pronouncing this right, is it Belarus?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Belarus, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, tell me about what the time was like living there because it was just you, you and your mum?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Me and my mum, yes. Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

What was it like there?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Well, I have a dad as well. But my dad, um, he was an alcoholic, he's still an alcoholic, bless him. So um, my mum got divorced with him uh when I was, I think, four years old. So, yes, it was mostly me and my mom. Um, but we had a good time, we were good friends. Um, we didn't have much money, that's one thing I do remember. Mom was working full-time uh as a like teacher in the kindergarten, yeah, yeah. Nurse teacher in the kindergarten. Um, and I was just all left uh for myself, became very independent very quickly because I do remember being left on my own at the age of seven, eight, um, nine years old. Just need to cook, yeah. That was a norm there, by the way. That was a norm there. So I needed to cook my own meals and um serve myself from the very young age.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

So you had no siblings?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

No, just you, just me. Yes, just me. Just me.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Because I actually my um my mum split with my dad when I was about 12. Yes. So I've lit I'm one of four. So my mum brought all of us four kids up. I'm the baby, but it is, I mean, hats off to mums, like especially when they're doing it on their own, it is it's a lot, isn't it? It's a lot, exactly. It's a lot, so yeah. Um and then what happened? So did you then you decided to come to the UK at what age?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yes, um, right, so he was, I think I was about 23 years old when I've met um my future uh husband, which is not my husband, so not my husband anymore. But I've met somebody and he already lived uh in the UK at that time. But he was from Lithuania, and um I met him through my mom. My mom and his mom, they were school friends. Okay. So they met us and uh we were dating for some time. He was coming to Belarus to see me, and then one day he's arrived and offered me to get married. It was too soon to get married, but I thought, you know what? I mean, if if we want to have um an opportunity to try to live together, that getting married is the only way for us to try that opportunity. So I came to my mom and said, Mom, I'm getting married. She was like, What? Yes, I'm getting married and I'm moving to the UK. And she's like, Okay, did your mom come with you? No, no, no, it was it was me who was moving, it was so I was just going to the UK, not my mom. So, yes, got married. I came to the UK. My mom uh stayed um at home in Belarus, and this is my uh life. Well, it is how my life just changed, like 360 degrees. Oh my god, so I didn't speak English.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I was literally just about to say that because I read that you spoke zero English. Yes. How was that? I bet that was overwhelming, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Of like it was. Um, it was. I was studying in university uh in Belarus and I finished my university. Uh I studied uh economics uh in banking field, and I was working in um in one of the Belarusian banks for some time, and then I moved to the UK, no English, and uh hey, you just need to start everything from scratch. Uh so my first job was one of the local factories in Bolton, and um it was an interesting experience. Um, it was fun to start with, but I think in about three days it wasn't much fun. About three days I've realized that it's a really, really difficult job and not very What was you doing in the factory? Well, first factory I was working on uh at it was the uh like a cake factory, so you've got the line in front of you with the cakes, they're moving, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then all you need to do, you just need to put the put the butter or like I can imagine that's quite small trying carries try, just trying to do eight hours in a row. It's actually very, very hard physically. You're standing and you're just doing that all day long. It is killing. Um god. So that was the first factory. Then they've moved me. I was working through the agency to another factory. We were making bandages there, and I was working on the big machine, uh, which was also very heavy. Um, and it's not engaging for your uh mind. Um, it's very hard for your body, and I very quickly developed a depression, like a really bad depression. I was waking up in the morning, I was crying, I was going to sleep, I was crying, I was standing on the line, I was crying. Um, but then so I really wanted to go back home. Really wanted to go back home where I could work in a bank and just do something else, just but I thought, you know what? I mean, Belarus is the tough country to live in. I was getting paid in in uh in that bank $100 a month. $100 a month. So imagine if you want to go on holidays in Spain and you're earning $100 a month, you can't do that. So um it is a tough life there. You're okay to be in the country because the cost of living is lower, but you can't really do much.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

You can't go anywhere else other than be where you are.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Correct, yeah. Um so yeah, there are some restrictions, I'd say. And I thought, you know what, Hannah? Um let's uh just give it a go. Let's uh just try and suffer for a couple of years, let's just try and make steps towards um better life. Let's learn English, let's try to find another job, let's try and stick uh in this country, stick to this country. Because if your children, my my children, if they will be born in the UK, they're going to have an easier, smoother life. Um, and not even easier life. Uh, when I'm saying easier, I mean they will have more opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

To do whatever they want, yes, to be happy, to build a career they want, to travel around the world. They have those opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

It says a lot about you because you, for anyone who's listening, to hear that you were crying going to work, a lot of people would end up not going. And you've already you cried, you still went. Yeah, that says that you're resilient, resilient, yeah, driven. Do you know what I mean? Because you were like, even though I'm crying every day, I'm still gonna get up and go. That says so much about you.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yes, that that was uh, but but hey, I wasn't crying for too long. I wanted to, I I didn't like crying. You were like, I was like, right, what should I do next? How do I make it? Yes, the first step towards that was to learn English, right? Right without English you want, Julia. Work anywhere else apart from uh factory. So, okay, English, then English where I can learn English. I went to the local college, Bolton College. They had uh lots of English training courses, but they were all fully booked for the next few years, and I thought, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not taking that. Um, what else can I learn? So I went to the beauty course instead. It was a bit adventurous because I knew that I will understand nothing, but um that opportunity to be surrounded by English girls. Um, I just thought, you know what, if I'll just give it a go and see, maybe I can just understand through communication, I can start picking the language. So that was my way to learn English. Um so I've gotten an interview, and we came with my husband to the interview. Gosh, that was a very funny uh thing because the interviewer was asking me some questions. Why do I want to go to this course and all sorts of things? My husband was responding on my behalf. I was just smiling, nodding, and he was saying she's just too shy to talk because I'm going to talk on her behalf. So they've enrolled me without even understanding that I'm not understanding any English. But we've managed. Wow. We've managed. I had such a fantastic tutor. Um, she's a she was amazing. Our main tutor, she was fantastic. She was coming in at the end of each lesson. I was coming up to her, and she was telling me in a simple English language and showing me and writing down what chapters do I need to focus at home, what do I need to learn? And I would come home, sit down with the dictionary. We didn't have Chad GPT, I would sit down with the dictionary, and it was translating everything, almost learning everything by heart, so I can then be ready for the next chapter. Wow. That's incredible. By the end of this course, I could speak English.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Because it was a beauty, it was a makeup. Was it makeup the first?

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Beauty therapy level two. Oh, okay. Yeah, first thing, which was nails, facials, um, eyelash extensions as a separate chapter, some other things, and then next one I did makeup as well. So I did two years in a row.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

And then what did you do after college? Did you went to the local salon to do eyelash extensions? So you tried lashes for the first time. Was it love at first try?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

You know, guys. Was it love at the first time from your disaster in the first time?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

When I tried it was a disaster, but you know when you hold the tweezers, it was like, you know, when Harry Possum teased his pond, you know what I mean? I was like, this is for me. It was weird. I can't even explain that feeling when I did the treatment for the first time. I thought, this is a bit of me, and even though I wasn't that great, obviously, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Did you?

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Did you?

SPEAKER_03 15:15

What happened?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Um, well, to be honest, actually, I've tried it during the beauty course, didn't like it, so they're never gonna do it ever again. And then um, because I've mentioned to somebody in my restaurant, I was working after uh the factory, I moved to the restaurant, it was upgraded my job position to the restaurant as a waitress. Well, I mentioned to everyone who was working at the restaurant that I've uh completed the lush course, and then somebody knew a salon owner, the guy from the kitchen who was washing the dishes, but bizarrely. Um he just knew a salon owner and and she was looking for a lash technician. So he came to work one day and he said, Hannah, I've got somebody who is looking for lash technician. I was like, Oh, I don't even know how to do lashes. And he's like, Do you want to go and meet her? I was like, Yes. So I've brought the before and after photo of the only set I've completed on the course. And she's like, but she desperately needed the lash technician. She was looked at it, she said that would do come. I was like, Whoa. Um was it quite new?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Was last year's quite new then?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yes, so the the Salon owners just were desperate to get the lashes.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

It's a new treatment, it's a wow treatment. When I realized that you could give someone a mascara look every day, I couldn't get over it. Exactly. I was the same. I was in awe. I was like, wow, exactly. It was exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

So they probably saw that you could could do it and thought we'll just have a ring. Yes, and she did. Um, it was a disaster because before me, she had a very experienced lash technician working. So she gave me her existing clientele. And imagine you're doing the lashes for your second time in your life. You've got a client coming in for an infils. No, you don't even know how to hold the tweezers properly. Oh my goodness, me. We we had a very challenging couple of weeks. Um, well, more than a couple of weeks, I'd say a couple of months.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Uh how did you overcome that? Did you just keep you go in practice?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Paris, I just had an opportunity of my life. I've just factory, yeah, um, restaurant, and here I have a chance to work in that in a beauty salon.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Your past.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

I'm basically just made it. I've made it. Can I can I drop that opportunity? Absolutely not. I just hold with my teeth into that. So I was really trying my best. I was practicing on the doll's heads, I was uh reading all the forums. I could only find any information. Luckily, I speak uh different languages. I also speak Russian language. I could read, you know, that the market was a bit more developed for lashes on that in those countries. So I was reading a lot of forums, just trying to understand the treatment better. So I was doing my best to learn, and we've um managed some clients, of course, left. They didn't like my they didn't come back, didn't come back. But those who gave me a chance, I think I'm fairly quickly gained some speed and a quality of work.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Because with lashes, the only way you get better is by doing it, and you have to practicing, and the fact that you probably did have a full clientele anyway, because that lady left actually did you a favor. Even though they left, some of them did, it didn't matter, you were still practicing all the time.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Correct. If you start from scratch and you have that one, two clients and then they never come back, you just don't have any more opportunities, isn't it? Unless you're just constantly, you know, tapping in your friends, their friends, moms, you really need to work on it. I just had it.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah, because it's not something that happens overnight, is it? You've but you literally went in there, had the clients. How long was you there for?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Oh, for a while, I think about a couple of years. I was doing lashes there. Um, and then I just thought, I think it's time for me to go and start working for myself.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Did they do training with you in there at all? Did you or did you have to source your own training? Did you like train with people in Russia or anything while you were there?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

At that time I didn't gain any extra more trainings. Um I was just yeah, I was just doing lashes, just practicing. And only when I've moved and started working for myself, I had a bit more budget to allow myself to start getting extra education.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

So, did you work from home or did you work in another salon? You worked from home. Oh, salon. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

For me it was important. I don't know why. I really don't know why. Now I'm challenging myself on that belief, but at that time I believed that working from home is not professional. And I want to not work from home, I want to work in the salon, and I was looking for places and I was looking for a nice salon so I could work in. So I I just wanted to get myself out and elevate myself as soon as possible. Probably that desire to grow out of you know, the poverty and struggle just maybe were driving that sort of belief. Yeah, because it's not necessarily a correct belief.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

But when you haven't had that, and then you when you come in somewhere else, and then you have all these opportunities, you do have that drive to just be yeah, just go, go, go, go, you know. Yeah, that says so much about you. And was that salon in what you called London Lash?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

No, no, no, that was a salon where I was renting the room. Okay. That was the first step. I was renting the room first. Um but then I've got split up with my husband. Oh no, it's not sad, it's a happy period for good yet. And then I've moved to London from Bolton. I've moved to London. So this is the very where real London Lush story began. Because London is London. Gosh, can't even compare it with Bolton. What was happening in London? It's it's a big story. So in London, I started to work in East London first, and then I was again the same desire of just uplifting myself. I was moving the salons, getting um rooms rented rented in different areas until I've ended up in uh Knightsbridge. Lovely area, just right next to Haritz. Um, but then the next and I was always questioning myself, what's the next step for me? And the next step for me to start teaching because a lot of people asking me, they say, kind of, can you teach me? Um and I was getting more and more. Education traveling around to various trainers uh around the world. So I I I was getting that knowledge, but I wanted to start uh spreading that knowledge. People were asking to teach them, uh, but I couldn't teach from rented um tiny rooms, so I needed a bigger space and I wanted a salon, like have like an academy, a salon. Like a salon academy. Yeah, so the next step was to expand and get in a bigger, bigger space. And the first move I've done was wasn't a salon, it was an office rented in Victoria. It was actually a very good move because it was a very convenient location. Uh, it was not that expensive compared to the salons because for salons you need to pay business rates, and the business rates are just crazy. Especially in England, in London was there. I was just renting the office rooms from somebody who needed to shrink their business slightly. And they had about five office rooms, and I first rented one, then they gave me another one, then they gave me another one at a very good rate. Um, and I've ended up having I don't know eight uh large tax working and having a space for teaching as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

So that was the beginning of Did you find education at that time wasn't there wasn't much around really? Because I felt like when I was actually had Dasher on, yeah, we were talking about this because it felt like it just boomed. The train like the trainers, like you training, traveling the world, doing things like that. It wasn't really not many people were doing it, was it?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Well, because industry was immature. There's not that many people who were good to teach, isn't it? So that's the first thing. Second, there was a big layer on that it was the Russian volume technique. Remember, it landed and everyone was doing classics and that Russian volume came. So it was a big search for like teach me for education, but not many people who could actually do it well.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Um yeah, but so it took a couple of years, isn't it, just to fill that gap. And I think I was the pioneer of that uh Russian volume. Yeah. One of the people, it was Loretta, uh myself, who else? Um it was just a couple of years. Come to mind, yeah. The two though is the girl who's used on lash bible, she's very talented as well. Do you remember that? Don't you remember what's her name?

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Oh, I don't know. It might come to us. And I was like, wow, five hundred pounds. Oh my god, she's an inspiration.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Very well-paid audience.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

She was probably doing all the celebrities by the sound of it. You actually did a celebrity, didn't you? I saw, was it Katie Piapar that you did at the very early days? You were like, Did I?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes, I did. Somebody reached out, just they reached out to me the TV, ITV, ITV something. Yeah, yeah. And they say, Can you do lashes for Katie Pie? But I said yes, we can.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Do you think that was the moment or one of the moments where you realize that this lash extension world is gonna blow up because no?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

No, you know why I realized it's gonna blow up when I was um still in in beauty school, in in the beauty college, and one of our tutors came uh to do the lecture once, and I look at her and I think, oh, she looks pretty today. And I don't understand why, because she doesn't have any um unusual makeup or anything like that. And I was staring at her all day long, and then I came up to her and I just said, Sue, what's I don't know, it's very embarrassing to uh to ask, but you look much prettier today, but I can't see any obvious makeup on you. And she said, she said, Oh, I had my lashes done. I was like, Ooh, that's the first time when I found out about eyelash extensions, and at that moment I was like, like you said, when you you can extend somebody's lashes and create that mascara effect, it's beyond the mascara effect. You can extend the lashes, you can make somebody's eye look bigger, you can make the woman look younger, you can and I at that moment when I've realized that she's got something, you know, on her eyelashes, made her instantly looking more beautiful, and it is a new industry. I was like, wow, that's gonna be bigger than nails. I need to be there, I need to look.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

And you did, they did eventually. So then you had you were renting them offices, doing your training, everything like that. Yes. What happened after that? Did you then go? We've expanded even bigger, and then you went and got a salon, another salon, or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yes, but before we opened another salon, what's happened is I needed the products to put into my uh kids. What was around at that time before London Lash was born? Lash Perfect, Lash Emporium, Lash Bass.

unknown 27:22

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Nouveau, nouveau.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, and I think I remember one called Lash Aler. Alleur?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, it was a B2C brand, and still a B2C brand. This is the one you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I'm not sure, but I feel like I I think I trained with Lash. Lash art. That wash art. I think I literally did lash perfect in college. I think that was it. That's it, me too. And then I had a little bit of where I trained for volume, tried the salon's lashes, yeah, and then I fell into London Lash, and then I never but this is a hit card.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

That was a gap. Uh uh talking about products. Sorry, we're jumping out of the topic, but talking about the products, I felt like these are all big brands, but none of them have a clue what does lash technician need. Look at the lashes, they're just horrendous. It's like arrangers of the pops, the loose lashes ones.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I'm like, guys, you know. But like you said, it was such an immature industry that everyone was just trying to figure out what worked. We didn't really know about weights, you know, of the lash. I remember using 0.25s, and they were like these thick, yeah, like Daisy the Cow. They were awful. But it did change. And then is that when you thought there's something here that I could possibly yes, but that real realization came later.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

The first I've just reached out, reached out to a couple of those brands and say, guys, can I just work with you, buy your products at the reduced rate so I can put them in the kits for my students? But nobody got back to me. Um, I don't don't remember who exactly I've approached. I've I've approached a few companies during the trade show, like a beauty trade show.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Nobody got back to me, so I thought, you know what, like I mean, it's not the rocket science to to get some at that time. It wasn't the rocket science now now it is to order some products. So I went to Alibaba looking for suppliers, and yes, I've just ordered something, but luckily for me, I've actually ordered a good stuff. Well, I was testing things, I was I bought the samples from many suppliers. I was testing things, I found something that I really liked, and um I've just ordered some uh some products, and it it was a lot carries, you know. When you order even 1,000 uh boxes of lashes, it doesn't maybe I mean it does seem a lot, but I didn't realize volumetrically how much is 1,000 boxes of lashes. It's actually it can fill all this room like up with the boxes. What did you do with them? Well, yeah, that that that that is answered. Answering your next one, why did they start London Lush? Because when those boxes arrived, there were so many. And my boyfriend, I had a boyfriend in London at that time. Everything arrived to my house. I remember that Royal Mail postman coming into the house, bringing box after box after box, and those boxes they just started filling the living room and eventually just filled the living room, the whole thing with the boxes. And I remember my boyfriend just coming home. I was dreading him to come back home. He's coming home, and he's like, he's like, Hannah, we need to do something about that. You need to take it to your salon or something. But he didn't have that much space at my salon, didn't have where to store it. So I just uh agreed with him on some intermediate solution. I said, I'll just trying to keep it around the house so you don't notice. So if it was just storing them under the beds, uh you know, in the in the kitchen drawers, everywhere you can possibly find, just uh uh trying to distribute that volume in your cutlery cutlery jaw. Oh no, you're not the box, just has lashes and lashes there, yeah, 0.07. Yeah, uh so that that was uh interesting. But my my thought, okay. When I was ordering them, I thought, oh, I can I can just use them if they, you know, if I can't use them all for my uh students' kits, I can just use them for my salons, but it's a lot of lashes to use for your salon. So I was like, right, probably that plan wouldn't work. Uh that doesn't work. I need to come with another plan. Maybe I should try to sell them just to get rid of them. It wasn't the plan to make money, it was a plan to get rid of that volume. It's like I've got too much in here, it's they need to go, and I've uh put them on eBay at that time. We didn't have Amazon, we didn't have even online shops, like nothing really. eBay was huge as well. eBay was big at that time. So I've put them on eBay and they started selling on eBay, and I was like, whoa! So I was coming, I was lashing all day, doing trainings, coming back home, updating my training manuals, doing some admin, uh, and then I was picking and packing. So I'd finish my working day at about two, three o'clock in the morning, a little sleep, wake up to the post office to send the parcels out, and then start again. So it's a lot, it was a lot, busy, busy couple of years. Uh, but then um I thought, you know what, why wouldn't I try to sell them to uh on another platform? And I've um Googled, I went to Google and said how to build a website. You know, I'm that kind of person, I'm not like, oh, you know, I don't know how to do it. Google it. How do I do that? How do I work it out? Yes. So I went online, how to build the website, and wrote it. Uh I found an article, and the first thing in that article, uh, it was featuring Shopify as the platform where you can build things yourself. So it's like, okay, I'll give it a go, click through, and within two days, I had the website built. It's so simple, so so simple. Um yeah. I actually really enjoyed making I made my own website. Which platform did you use?

SPEAKER_02 33:31

I actually use Wix. Yeah, fantastic. But I found it so I mean it took me about three days, but I was just I was just having so much fun because like when you're creative, you almost enjoy them little things, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Built in, it's an engineering slash artistic uh thing. So, what was your website called? Uh Lady Lash. Lazy Lash. Because at that time I was calling myself Lady Lash, and everything was branded Lady Lush. Some people who were working with us for a while, they still remember that. But then once I went to Germany to teach, and one of the students, she was like, Hana, can I ask you something? I was like, Yes, darling. She's like, You're located in London, aren't you? I'm like, Yes. She's like, Why do you call yourself Lady Lash? Why don't you call yourself a London Lash? I was like, Oh the rock star! Oh my god, what a good idea! I was itching to come back to the hotel room to check if the trademark was available. So rushing back home. I think I've skipped the dinner with the girls after the training, just ran into my hotel room, trademark website, checking checking for the trademark available. I'm like mine.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Because one of my questions was gonna say, What was your vision for London Nash? But it was a student saying to you, Why don't you call yourself the best ideas in my life?

SPEAKER_01 35:01

They came from somebody else, just somebody else coming into me and said asking, Hannah, why wouldn't you do that?

SPEAKER_02 35:06

And I would be like, Wow, but like, yes, why don't I do that?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yes, that was a London Lush uh begin. We've rebranded everything to London Lush, it was fairly easy, just change the logo. Yeah, we've kept the font, customers didn't even notice that.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I actually remember being in um the London HQ, and they're saying we've changed our logo like three times, and I was like, Have you? Yeah, but you just don't know because it always looks so professional, quite good. You don't really notice the font.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

We are trying to do it gradually so the consumer doesn't notice.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I never notice.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah, so we've been doing so many rebrands. You never notice we're that good.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

No, so it's definitely wearing you. Yes. So you were then called London Lash. That was you. So at this time, you haven't you're still selling them products that you've the samples that you got in. You still selling them on eBay as well, or no?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I'm still selling, yeah, the products that I've got. They were already branded by either Lady Lash or London Lash mix. Um had some glues. Um, yeah, we were already selling it, and uh we're teaching, we were teaching. Uh, I had um a fantastic team of lash technicians, very demanding lash technicians, no dasha? So I had Dasha's there, and Dasha was saying, Hannah, I don't like those lashes, I don't like this primer.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Um, so but how amazing that you had lash artists around you saying to you, Hannah, this primer, no good. Exactly. This lash glue, no good. Because I feel like that's what brands miss sometimes is having things, yeah, yeah, exactly. Who are quite blunt and will say to you, no, no, that's not good. You need that because how is your brand ever gonna succeed?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Correct. Because maybe I like that primer as a lash technician, but because Dasha and Veronica say no, I need to create another primer or upgrade this primer to make a better primer. So I like it and they like it too. And without it's it's on almost subconsciously, is that the right way of saying it? Because without realizing it, we've been we've been upgrading that product line, making it better and better and better uh for very picky lash technicians like Dasha. And other I've got very another Dasha's who made me make uh positive changes because I'm a very easy-to-please person. You give me any lashes, I'll be fine working with any lashes.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Me too. I'm not someone who moans about much or anything. I kind of, if there's a little thing that's not it does, it doesn't bother me. I'm just like, meh, because sometimes people might moan about the line of the strip, something like that, you know. To me, it doesn't bother me. It's so tiny, it doesn't really bother me. But actually, having Dasher who goes, that line is really annoying me. You've then tweaked it to suit different types of lash artists. Because that's what I love about London Lash is if you say London Lash's name, but if anyone speaks about them, they know London Lash is high quality, they know it's for like premium. I find that, and I feel like that's how you've kind of created that because you've had the people around you.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Correct, and they were forcing a lot of changes, and they were forcing this chip to be perfect. You know, that one example that you've brought, strip, right? How sticky it is, or which color it is, makes such a massive difference for such for so many large technicians. So uh for me, uh traveling to the factories and explaining the quality controllers and the managers at the factories, all those tiny teeny nitty screeties, it was just my life. I was just traveling to the factories a few times a year. And you know, I don't know any other representatives of any other Lash brands who's ever been to the Lash factories, maybe once they've been. So I was going there consistently to educate them, um, to explain it, to set up the quality control, to set up the um guidelines of how to check things. Um was it hard to find a really good supplier? A really good it's not about finding, it's about um uh building good relationships with one or a few and educating them and working together in order to optimize the quality for you, yeah, for your customers, for you. So it's it's a lot of things because even that the tape, it can be um uh sticky, uh, can not be sticky, and they can buy from the same same supplier themselves, and it can arrive with different stickiness. It can just be a fault, it not even a fault, just because the stickiness of the tape is not something which is which will have a strict importance within the guidelines of the uh uh this factory production. So uh yes, so it's about like sat down at the table and say, guys, well, how we can make sure that this tape is consistently only sticky at that level, not stickier, and how we can ensure that for the next 10, 20, 30 years we are keeping the same consistency and they need to work it out. The operational managers need to work it out. It's it's a lot, it's a journey of that communication. So it's not about and finding suppliers, it's nothing about that, it's about finding somebody you can work long term and building the good relationships uh where everyone is open for the positive change. Because they, you know, when we come to some suppliers, they say no to us. When we start working with them, when we bring them our list of criteria of how things need to be made, uh we say we're gonna send our own quality controls, we've got an operational manager located in Asia that could travel that travels the factories, and we're a lot of factories say we're not gonna work with you guys. You're too uh challenging for us, we're you're too difficult. So that's another thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

So yeah, it's way beyond finding a yeah, because you never want to lack on quality, you're not just gonna go with someone and just be like, Oh, you can leave that bit out.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

You want the criteria to be strict, yeah, and consistent. That is very important because if you you you can order the batch from any suppliers on AliExpress, it could be fantastic. You know, lashes could be fantastic. When you order them next time, instead of C curl, you're gonna get CC curl, or instead of green tape, you're gonna get the brown tape, which is not sticky enough.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Things like that. So that consistency, this is the key when it comes to the uh lashing. Because the your lash lash technicians you're working with, like Carrie, she'll probably be buying lashes. You're buying lashes uh from us for for years, and you want to make sure that C remains C, doesn't turn into D or something else. You want to make sure that the tape, okay, maybe not for me, but for that for you, but for Dasha, the tape is remaining at the right sticky level. So, yeah, it's a lot of work. I'd say work I didn't realize, but because I had this such a demanding community of flash technicians working with us, they were all first flash technicians, then became educators. Uh, they are demanding, they are demanding as a human being, so they would always like punching me in my face just saying, do this better, Hannah, do this better, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Yeah, because only gonna make you better and the brand better.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Exactly. And we can see now, like if I look in looking at the retention rate of purchasing for particular product, you can see that the products where we've put a lot of work on, they have a very good retention rate, which means that the customers, when they get into that product, just keep buying and buying it because it is a good product. Yeah, and I could see the products where probably we were just launching as a trial or something, you have a less of a retention rate. So I'm not okay, but this product probably deserves some attention uh moving on. So yeah, it's always a work in progress. It never stops.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Just a quick one before we get back into the episode because I really want to talk to you about pre-treatment in lash extensions. And if you know me, you know I am a complete lash nerd when it comes to retention. When I first started learning about the science behind our glue and really diving into things like pH levels and creating the best possible surface conditions for retention, you bet I was on the hunt for the best. Products to support that. But honestly, I never really had to look far because London Lash already had everything I needed. My personal favourites are their lash foam shampoo, coconut cleanser and primer. Not only do they work beautifully together, but they're designed with the correct pH levels in mind, meaning they actually do the job they're supposed to do and help create the optimal surface for your lash extensions. It means I can work confidently knowing my products are working with me, not against me. So I just wanted to give a big shout out to my favourites over at London Lash for always putting lash artists first. And of course, I have a little discount for you. You can shop their pre-treatment range today using my code Caris20 and this will save on your order. Now, let's get back into the episode. Is there any moment throughout Building London Lash where you think, oh my god, that moment was a big struggle that maybe you wanted to ever throw the towel in or anything like that? Or did you always have that tunnel vision of those?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Uh no, COVID was challenging. Do you remember COVID? You forgot COVID. For me, it was like and I've I'm in good relationships with Tatiana from Inlay. And COVID came to Italy before it came to the UK. And she was feeding me with all the horrible news about people dying and all sorts of things, and about how they closing all the uh factories and closing all the offices and everything. And I was sad thinking right what I'm going to do. I remember that, remember sad. It was a funny moment because I'll tell you, it was sat at the desk in the office, and I got a thing email arrived. Um that email was uh that we won the Queen's Awards Export uh Queen's Awards Enterprise. Um and at the same time I was sad there thinking that I need to fire in order to keep business going, I need to properly fire like at least 30 people part of my team and how I'm gonna do that. So I sat there already nearly crying, and then I've got that email saying that we want that award, and I thought that is unfair because I'm right here, right now, I'm going to you know thinking about firing all my stuff. And and I remember really I I just got into hysterical cry because I felt like I don't deserve that award. I'm like failed as a business person because I'm I'm such so much into my team and looking after my team, and then here I'm just out there making the plan of you know how to let them all go, knowing that I need to kind of save the business somehow.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

So it was all for get through that time.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Um I don't know. Did you have which scaled? I I I I've remembered now, guys. Because we were so international, because we're selling a lot, only 40% of our business is the UK market. 40%, the rest is international. How incredible is that! So yeah, especially Asia, we are not that popular in the UK. No, we are actually we've got a big market under, and I think because different countries coming into the lockdown at the different times, it really helped us to navigate. So we either had sales from Germany or from Austria or from France or from something, so we were just um yes. I've I think I've reminded about six or seven people working in the team, and we had sales, not as uh huge, but still had some sales through, and we've managed uh okay. Yeah, and you got through it, yes, got through it, but it was challenging because I thought that it will be game over for the business, knowing what's happening in other countries and what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Did they do any schemes or anything for business like for businesses like yours in the sense of being able to give you any any help? You know, like how do you remember they did the uh furlough scheme? Yes, it yeah. Yeah, so that was something so they actually did support you, yeah. Yeah. Oh, because I was just sitting there thinking, Oh, I hope you that was something that they give you. I remember with mine, I I had I had missed this deadline. I don't know if it was wherever I had not been on my own for that long.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Are you joking?

SPEAKER_02 48:36

So I didn't get paid. Yeah, and then it was the year because it was two years COVID, wasn't it? Yeah, it was the following tax year I then was able to get money.

unknown 48:47

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Yeah, and I because that's why I was just sitting there thinking, oh my god, I hope that wasn't something that because I felt like the beauty industry kind of got a little bit we were the last to close. Last to close, but the um last ones to open. Do you remember? And lashes, it was like I waited till we sat in that living room when Boris was like, it's closing down, but we were close contact, it was still the last thing, really, but then it was the last thing to come back, and it was hard, wasn't it? Yep, it was a really difficult time. I it's incredible that so many businesses actually survived it, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yeah, but your team I'm thinking it's incredible that we don't really believe we don't really remember many details of that. That's what I'm thinking. I know because it was so long ago now, weren't it?

SPEAKER_02 49:32

And how life adapts. Yeah, yeah. We went back to life pretty it's crazy, isn't it? Pretty quick, and you've still got such an incredible team around you. Like I always admire London Lash because you have still the same team. I know you obviously you might have employed new people and stuff like that, but you have the core London Lash still there from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Yeah, I think we've changed a lot of a lot of people, but they're still around. Yeah, you know what's still around, and we are collaborating in some ways, even if they're still not because you have that relationship and connection with they're my friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Yeah, I've actually got a little surprise for you.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I've got a little surprise for you. So I actually asked a few of your team. Oh gosh, I asked them to write you a little something. Oh gosh, could you? It actually hurt my heart when I read it because they didn't just ask some of the girls, they ask some of the men as well. And it literally, I didn't realise they were gonna go all around. So this is from Tom, he's head of finance. Hannah, it's generally hard to put into words the impact you've had on all of us. As a boss, you led with so much passion, care, and belief in people. You always push us to better while making everyone feel valued and supported. You've created a culture where people want to work hard because they believe in you. As a colleague, you're the person everyone wants in their corner. You lead from the front, celebrate wins with the team, and never ask anyone to do something you wouldn't do yourself. And as a friend, you're kind, thoughtful, and one of the most genuine people I know. You care deeply about people, both inside and outside of work, and that's something really special. We are all lucky to have you and incredibly proud of everything you've built.

unknown 51:34

Thank you, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

You got Tony from the warehouse. Me and Susanna was um, it made us smile because Susanna said he's not one to be um emotional, but he was it was sweet. Hi Hannah, Tony here. Thank you for all you do for us all. Always here, there, and everywhere. An inspiration to us and always there to lend a hand or an ear to listen. You have one from Hello, if I'm gonna say this for it, hello, Anuta, and your Dashana is here. I just wanted to say how truly grateful I am that back in 2016 you gave me the opportunity and took me in. Looking back now, I honestly can't even imagine how much this journey has shaped me and how much I've learned things from you.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Oh, good.

unknown 52:33

You can't just do that to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Thank you for all the skills, knowledge, support, and experience you shared with me over the years. But even more than that, thank you for your kind heart, your openness, your warmth, and your willingness to always help and support people around you. These are such rare qualities, and I really admire you for them. You still inspire me to this day with your energy, your ideas, your creativity, and the way you always keep moving forward no matter what. And honestly, I'm always here and always ready for a new adventure, crazy idea or project with you. I truly hope that every new beginning, every dream, and every idea you have will grow into something huge, successful, and beautiful because you generally do deserve it. And of course, we'll always be there to help, support, and cheer you along the way.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Thank you so much, Dashwunya.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Thank gosh. No. Okay, one more. Hi Hannah, Sue here. I just wanted to say how incredibly grateful I am for all the opportunities you've given me over the last two years. And the fact you keep giving me more jobs must hopefully mean I'm doing something right. You inspire me so much in business, but even more so as a friend. You've taught me many things, but one lesson that has truly stayed with me is to always reflect before reacting impulsively. And honestly, that's helped me more than you ever know. I can't wait to keep riding the London Lash wave alongside you and see all the exciting projects still to come. Never ever change.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Thank you so much, Grace. Thank you so much, Sue.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Have you got room for one more? Come on.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Do you have any negative ones that we can make an improvement there?

SPEAKER_02 54:23

No feedback, just complete love.

unknown 54:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

So this is from Kate, and in brackets, it's Katerina. Yes, head of operations. Working alongside you from the very beginning of London Lash and watching everything you've built has been truly inspiring. I've always admired your strength, positivity, and the way you keep moving forward no matter what. Thank you for always inspiring me to grow and have more confidence in myself. Over the years, you've you've become not only an incredible boss, but also a genuine friend. And that honestly means so much to me. You've built not only an incredible business, but also a team that truly believes in you and your vision. And I'm so grateful to be a part of the journey. I can't wait to see all the amazing things still to come.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Thank you so much. Oh, that was so lovely. I feel like I need a squishy. Thank you, Craig. Oh I feel, you know, I feel guilty listening to because you know that the because the the people who are working with me, they are amazing. They are fantastic. They are, you know, they they're the ones who are doing the work, you know, Carays. They're the ones, and them the ones who are coming in and just asking them, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this? Can you do that? And it just um, you know, almost feels wrong when you you you hear a nice thing because I'm feeling like they you are the one, you're the ones who are doing everything. It's not me. I'm the one who's asking. Do you know what you're the ones cooking? Do you know what it is?

SPEAKER_02 55:56

When you have someone who is part of the team, yeah, I feel like to anyone who's even watching and listening, they look at you as an inspiration, like everyone is in awe of what you do, right? But I think when you're in the London Lash family with this who you have, yeah, you're someone people want to work for. And I feel like that is where people do go wrong, is that they become boss boss, you know, they're not very entwined with everyone, they're not really connecting with everyone, but you have got such a solid foundation of people around you that they just want to work for you and they want to do good because they want to do good for you as well, you know. I feel like you're quite a rare person to find. Honestly, you have amazing, and everything they have said, I completely agree with.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Thank you so much. Yeah, I think it's uh it's very nice, nice to hear that, obviously. I said it doesn't make me feel less guilty. It does make me feel guilty because I think that sometimes we've got a very rocky road with you know people, and uh so you know sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You know, sometimes uh we can work together for years, sometimes it doesn't. So amount of people I've also let go over these years is it's quite I'm very experienced in firing, you know. So that's is another kind of side of it, but it doesn't yeah. I'm I'm I think I'm I'm I'm the one who who wants to build a good team. And once I get the good people in that we that I like working and they like working with me, I make sure that I look after them and we walk that journey together. Um so yeah, that's hey gosh. That was unexpected. That worked unexpected, but no, it's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

I feel like you you will feel guilty in that moment because I guess you feel like they obviously work for you, right? Exactly. But actually, people work for you because they want to work for you, and you have this you're always in people's corners, and you're always nothing's too big either, you know. You can you can go get it if you want to get it, you know. And I think they don't have any negative feedback because they adore working for you, so it's amazing, it's amazing on it.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

So we can come back if anyone wants to write it. Write it in the comments under the studio. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

So if we go back to then let's go back to then London Lash. Yes. So you started then having building your team, incredible team that you've got around you. Yep, you had the Lash artists that were telling you, Dasher, that's not right, this is that right, that's not right. When was the moment in London Lash where you thought, okay, we're on to something here? Was it that you had a rush in sales, or what was the pivotal moment for you?

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Um I remember one moment, um, one moment when I think I came to realization that um I think my our sales daily sales were growing, and they were going from 300 pounds a day to 400 pounds a day to 500 pounds a day to 600 pounds a day. And I was looking at the numbers and I remember I was thinking, wow, maybe one day we'll be making £1,000 a day. Yeah, thinking, yeah, dreaming of making £1,000 a day from the sales of the product. And I knew that it's possible because you know, obviously we just need to sell more lashes, more glues, there's plenty of lash technicians on the market. So I think that when it clicked in my head that it's possible. And I think the the second point, a little bit uh bad because talking money now, but I do remember that our finance um we were working in in Bolton. I uh moved our warehouse from London to Manchester, right? And we were working there with girls, sat in the Bolton office, um, and then our financial advisor, um financial um manager, I suppose, or financial director at that time. Uh, she came in and she said, Hannah, I've just done the end-of-the-year accounts. Do you know how much money we've made this year? I was like, How much? So, how much profit we've made this year? I was like, How much? She said, One million. I was no. She's like, Yes. I'm like, no. I was never made, I guess. I never looked at the businesses from the money angle. For me, it was just let's make this primer better. I never thought we never did any proper marketing, we're just doing social media, but we've never done the proper anything. Never spent any money on your gullet. She's telling me she's like, we've made a million. I was like, whoa, nice. Can we get the bonus? She's like, Of course you can.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Gosh, so that was really nice. And that's that probably the moment when you were like, Okay, this is gonna go up, up, up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Yeah, but yeah, but then but then the industry went down. Then everyone went exactly. So, yeah, but that was the moment when I probably realized, okay, well, now it's not just um like a little business where we're just doing kind of fun stuff, it's uh it's a proper business.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

And you've got to look at it in maybe a different way.com perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

I'm looking at from the e-commerce, e-commerce, e-commerce, e-commerce business now. Look at it from perspective of you know the proper e-commerce.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

It's not just you doing lashes or your people in your salon doing lashes, it's it's obviously got bigger and bigger and bigger, and you have to look at it in a completely different lens, which was a bit of a switching up from in the last day, you're like, oh now I need to learn how to run the business. But you'd go on courses or did you just learn on the job?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

Learnt on the job, and I must admit, not very successfully. I was trying to, it's just not not something that I was interested in. So I was just trying to recruit people who are good in able to do it. Yes, yes. Uh, but still, this year, beginning of this year, I just started looking at it from a different angle. Again, we're gonna talk about the market um being shrunk. So I really looked at it and really dived in myself into understanding what does conversion rate, what does you know, how many people bouncing out of a basket, do we have post-purchase uh optimization flows? Do you have that like what do we have in terms of marketing? Started really deep diving into those things. And uh that was very, very, very interesting and not that difficult as I thought it is, and uh super uh exciting and interesting as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

A different, completely different side of it, isn't there? Exactly. If you looked back now, what way in the early days of your thinking of building your brand, what do you think people building their brands now or even starting building their brand? What are you thinking that they are focusing so much on that actually doesn't really matter?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

They focus in on marketing before they nail their product itself, okay. Right, or some of them focus on the product and not focusing on the marketing, yes, you know what I'm talking about. Um, but mostly it's obsession with social media, obsession with uh just posting, posting, and then I'm just thinking in I think how how much um of that business is um in that desire to post things on social media, how much is the ego-pleasing thing versus real marketing um uh kind of achievements, right? So if you just simply look at any business, uh any business is the way to solve somebody's problem. So, for example, last technician uh her glue is not performing, she is looking for for a glue, right? Um and imagine she's bought it from you, right? So what's happening next? She tried your glue, but if this glue is working for her, what's going to happen later? If it's working for her, she's gonna keep using it. Yes, but if it's not working for her, she's gonna go somewhere else. Correct, exactly. So first thing is the product, then driving people to the product through marketing. First creating the boot product, making sure your glues are performing, or along with the glues, you've got a whole range of pre-treatments that make sure that they're performing, or you explaining the glues correctly because if you uh given the good glue uh that is working for you, Caris, if you give it to a beginner, she won't be able to work with that addition. So there are so many needs great. So you start with that bit first, that is the most fundamental bit, making sure. That the products are right, the sticky tape is always consistent, the calls are consistent, everything is right. And once your product range is right, even though it's small, but it's right and it's performing for particular audience, then you start driving traffic to that product through marketing channels. Good, yeah. Okay, so a lot of people they start doing social media, they go posting, posting, posting, posting, driving people to the product which is not performing well or not performing for them. So they're doing the wrong way around. Yes. So then the people are okay, they might buy it, and then they don't like it, they'll never come back again. So you start that rabbit, you know, squirrel, you know, and they run and hamster. Rabbit squirrel, hamster. Uh start that thing again. So I think first makes sense to create a good quality product, make sure it's working, understanding for what customer type it is, because not every glue fits every customer, not every lash type. People who are buying 0.5s doing mega volume are completely different in the way they behave and uh look at the world to those people who do in classic with 0.10. Yeah, imagine two completely different individuals, some completely exactly this one needs like some sort of elegant, not say an elegant approach, but much more say subtle approach, yeah, more natural, more natural. This one you go for bold looks and dramatic flashy mega volume colours, probably. So that so understanding that customer, understanding who you're creating the product for, understanding the customer, then you move into marketing and you start promoting to that kind of customer who is more likely to consume your product.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

And you've also then got social proof that your product works because people are using it, so then you've got backup of your marketer.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Okay we go, and everyone waits for something to be perfect, don't they? We get we can kind of be suckers for that, where we'll be like, it's not it's not perfect yet, we're not gonna do this. But if no one's trying it, no one's giving you feedback, and then that's how your product gets better and better and better. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Yeah, so yeah, the the the the both uh sides of the business, they never finish things, you'll be working on one side and work on another, but fundamentally start with the product, then move to market, not the other way around.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:34

Yeah, no, that makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

Yeah, so same as lashing. If somebody is doing lashes, if you know that your skill is not just that and your lashes, your retention is not good and everything, what's the point to post and attract the customers if you know that they're not gonna stay with you? Practice on your mom, yes, practice on your sister, practice on somebody, get that product right, yeah, understand who is this product for, because again, if you are really good and really natural volumes classic, your audience is probably you know, particular 30 plus, I don't know, particular level of income audience, and that you will market them to them. The way you speak to them, it'll be a completely different message to if you are nailed your mega volumes. Yeah, it's a different audience. So you first work on your product, understand what client is it for, and then you move into marketing, start posting the right message appropriate for that target audience, who you sell into.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Yeah, no, it makes it makes complicated.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

It's a very logical, very logical, bro. Yeah, but people do not. We complicate it. So we need to do posting. Yeah, so many people do I need to post. I'm like, why? What do you do it for? And never nobody looking at the clients. What do the clients want? Are they what is the retention rate? Do the actual clients who came to them, are they coming back? Are they coming back? And if they're not coming back, then why do they not coming back? What was that problem that caused that friction in the relationships? This is where we need to look at trying to fix that, making sure that the majority of the customers to come, and then really you don't need to post anymore after you fix that. Yeah, it's very easy organically, build your database. Like you have Caris, you've got like a solid customer base that you've built. Do you need to do much marketing to get more clients? You don't. No. So what I mean is like if you fix your core thing, your product you offer, and doing it really well, uh, it will take you three months probably to get booked up. Mm-hmm.

unknown 1:10:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

Without any extra marketing show. Just make yourself visible. Have a, I don't know, Google page with some reviews. Um have presents on um the main major booking systems.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

Just have some presence. People will find you and they'll stick to you if you're good. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

And word of mouth is huge when you get it right with a client.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

You know, she's gonna go to work, there are other colleagues, they'll see her lovely lashes, and they come to you as a customer, say you've got referral code to just like give you all your friends 30% off or 50% off of their first visit. Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

You could have one client, one or two clients to drive the whole marketing for you 100%. Why do you need to pause? Yeah, but I think we're in an we're in like a a place right now where for some reason social media is such a such a big thing, isn't it, all the time? But I remember first starting out, I'd post a couple of photos and off it goes. But actually, it was word of mouth. People were talking to people and interacting in that way. I guess we get so absorbed by what is expected of us as artists, but actually you need to be looking at what you're doing. But expected by who? I don't know. That's what I mean. It's just like when you actually deep it and think about it, we're putting that pressure on ourselves, it's actually not that important. You need to be looking at what's working, what's not, yeah, and fix it if it's not working, but in your business. Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

And the thing you need to go to marketing and understand what are you trying to achieve in marketing. If you're posting that something on social media, what you post in it, what is it for? What is it for? What's the end of it? To entertain your existing customer base. Okay, maybe. Maybe maybe they'll come back anyway. Uh to gain the new customers, okay, but maybe there are other ways to gain the new customers through referral codes and stuff. So it's always just whenever you do anything, always ask yourself why.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

Yeah, no, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:49

What is the purpose of that step?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

No, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

Just doing things for the sake of doing because that's so social standard. Because that is what's been all the cows are moving on the field, like you know, it didn't need to be that cow who's moving with the all the cows. Just be that cow who is like, I'm not gonna go that way. I've seen the wolf there, ask the yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

I think we look what everyone else is doing, and then you get absorbed by that, but actually, you just need to be focusing on what you're doing in your own lane.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:22

What is important for you? What is important for your family long term? What kind of financial goals are you pursuing, per pursuing? What um freedom goals are you pursuing? Do you want to open the cell and have the somebody working there and you're not uh you're not uh involved? What is the structure going to look like? What is your next 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 50 years will look like? A lot of people they don't know. I do know, I've got that kind of journey of my life, I've got a list of things what what should happen in 2030, in 2035, in 2040. I know exactly what I want. And I'm trying to uh shape my actions towards that. And uh some actions uh will achieve that goal faster than what is uh considered to be a social norm.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

Mm-hmm. No, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, no, it does. When we're gonna move on to the lash market, then obviously we've gone over the marketing side of what you need to be focusing on. But right now in the industry, it's not the same as it was before. We've touched base on how before it was kind of like the right time, it was new, it was exciting. Everyone was like, Oh my god, you can do this, like compliment people's eye shapes, your teacher was looked prettier, you almost had that obsession. Obsession, excitement, isn't it? It was a luxury treatment, and it was like, oh my god. Let's talk about now then, because I remember last year when I met up with you before, and we were discussing how the I I felt like the industry felt like something was happening with brands, I wasn't sure, and even though I was busy, because I remember saying because we were discussing before recording, I I couldn't get my head round the fact that the market wasn't as big as it was because I was still doing well, but like you were saying, it's is it because maybe I was I I already had all my clients, and my clients are very loyal to me, but nowadays it's different. So, what do you think? What's your view on the Lash market today? What has London Lash found in its tracks?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Well, the first of all, um my marketing team, I've got a really fantastic marketing team, and a lot of members of that marketing team, and particularly Abitch, she was telling me long time before market started shrinking, she was telling me that the market will start shrinking because she said it's a massive trend for natural beauty. Hannah is coming here, it is here. Look at all the celebrities, look at that, it's a massive trend. Lashes will go out of fashion, and she was right. I didn't believe, I was like, you can't no, you could it's impossible. Look at me, look at you. No, the way around, look at me, look at you. Do we have eyelash extensions? I've never hey see this is what happened. Um, we don't wear lashes now. A lot of people they stop wearing lashes. And if you look at the Google Trends, if you just go on Google and just type Google Trends, you can go to their special portal, you can put any keywords in that special portal and see what's happening with the dynamic of that keyword over time. And if you put eyelash extensions near me and you choose UK or any other bigger region, dynamic is pretty much the same everywhere. You can see that it was trending, trending up, that it was a gap on the during the COVID, then it had a massive spike because everyone came out of lockdown, everyone wanted everything, and then it was an economical crisis in the UK. You know, we had bigger mortgages to pay everything, so the disposable income shrunk, all came together with the natural beauty trend. Massive thing, clean girl era, clean girl aesthetics, exactly. And this is where you can see the trend gone down, and the drop is about 60%. You can check now. But good job, good thing now, now industry has stabilized. And if you type um search term eyelash extensions near me, it stays static now. So right now we're at the bottom of the hill, and everything is fine. Okay, so from now on, things just will be fine. So if you good lash technician and you're just going, you're going to acquire your customers, they it's not shrinking anymore. So good, good, good news. But yes, we've noticed it on the our sales because we were growing, growing, growing, and then the sales started dropping, and I was like, Oh, she's panicking. Really? Oh gosh, big times. Well, you've got you've got warehouses, you've got staff, you've got everything. You need to pay a lot of money to your team, and that was the biggest kind of fear. So, yeah, that's why I said I'm very experienced in firing because I made a lot of people redundant at that time. Wow. Um, we're fine now, so still sales are stabilized, um, everything is good. But answering your question, remember you asked me a question, you you said, Hannah why everyone is doing sales right now? Because everyone is like, isn't something isn't something going on?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:48

Because every lash brand was like, am I missing something? Because for me, my business was just the same. But I was just doing my clients, training. You remember, I just felt very secure. Yeah, and then when I saw everything, I was going, something's going on, and I did not know. And then when you said the lash market has just sunk, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:12

Shrunk. But it's okay. Any industry is going through it, it's going through initial spike and then it's going down, then stabilizes, sometimes dies. That's okay. That is just what's happening. And if you think about any beauty treatment, even like gel nails, gel nails died because buy-up came in, or be up, how do you call it, right? So everything is changing, changing. You know, before people were doing Botox, now they're still doing Botox, but then fillers arrived. That after fillers, now everyone's doing uh poly something acids, the thing on D UI is my blood cold sperm of some and it's all coming and going. So that is we this is where we need to live in, and I think we need to all understand that it's okay. We're living uh the world is not static, the world is moving. We just need to be swimming with this world and being opened for changes because uh you know, you're not, you know, even like I don't know if I was going to give an example. If you're maybe a nurse or a doctor, your career is static, but even now with AI technologies, even that is in the risky situation. So, what I mean is life is there, all we need to swim with the waves and just carry on moving around and just adapt, just keep swimming, just adapt, keep swimming, keep smiling. I'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:38

So, did London Lash have to adapt and change anything in your structure during that time? Did you focus on because in when I was researching as well, the lash lift was going up because of the clean go away, but you have inlay?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:54

Yeah, so then Korean came in. Yes, we didn't have any powders, we couldn't do Korean lash lift. So unfortunately, inlay didn't save us. It remained the growing category within our business, but compared to lashes and glues, it was nowhere anywhere near as big. So we didn't compensate for the loss of sale on the lash category. We didn't compensate with the growth of inlay. Okay, but it it gave us a bit of a cushion.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

So it was there as a little bit of something, but it wasn't the force of anything. So was you just getting through that phase by just sticking at just cutting the costs.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

So last year was a year of cutting the costs. Um a lot of redundancies happened. Um this year is uh much more stable year. Um we're fine with our stales. Uh we are diving in and uh marketing, just making it better, we're making sure we're launching the new products. Uh um we've just just landed the powder. I saw. I saw we uh um you know just uh exploring UV sector. Can talk about this later. Um yeah, so we we we just carry on. It's so much going on. So we're fine, but yes, we had a big hit, but but we're fine as a business, we're very stable. And the good thing about us carry is because we never worked with beginners. We we wanted to have beginners, yeah. But I suppose for beginners, London Lush is a kind of aspiring brand, it's like a number two. This is where they grow in into. So we've captured the big market of very experienced Lush technicians who are picky, who want that good primer and ready to pay extra you know, a couple of pounds for that primer because they want the product that performs really well. We've captured people like you, thanks God, and this is the most stable.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:01

Because we want for me, I want a brand that I can trust, and that every time I buy a product, it consistently shows up for me. Do you see what I mean? That's what for me, as I'm busy full-time with extension clients. I was saying to a guest the other day, I do lash lifts, I'm good at them, but I probably do three a week. Exactly. The rest is extensions, it's just your loyal customers. Yeah. Yep. So I find that knowing that I have London Lash, having consistent products at work, I lash with ease, you know, and that's I find that's super important.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:34

Exactly. And we are as a brand, we have customers like you. Majority of our customers, they experienced lash technicians, and they stayed incredibly resilient to those industry changes because you all had your um loyal customer base, and you didn't drop the amount of lush treatment. You did maybe a little bit, but not significantly. Which means for us, we uh thanksfully our core customer is very resilient themselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:06

And they're not beginners who are having to give up because they've not got the clients, they're not making money, and they go off.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:14

Correct, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:15

Yeah, you've actually got advanced lash artists who you're speaking to, who you're people buying from you, who stay because you think it's harder now than it was. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

Well, of course, yes, because the demand from the final consumer is lower, right? So it's less people searching online. And if I'm going as a c customer, I want to have my lashes done. I've got a choice to go to you, Caris, or to go to a beginner. You've been doing lashes for so long, um, you've been you know incredible, the quality is perfect, the price-wise maybe slightly more expensive, but still affordable. I go to you. Um maybe somebody goes to the beginner, but because the amount of us searching is less. That has shrunk too. Yeah, so it's less people distributed to each group. And if it's okay for you, it's not okay for beginner.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:11

Yeah, it's a much more she wasn't getting many anyway. No, and then she's charging less anyway, then she's not getting it. She can't make her living, exactly. And then if you want to buy products, you'll then buy it. Yes, a very vicious circle of it's a really hard, it's very hard, actually. I don't think I've ever really really thought about it. How you've said it has just made my whole mind go open up to a different way of it because when everything else is shrinking and every you're not getting them searches and people are not really going, I want to have that done, I want that treatment. Because like we said before for recording, lashes are is not as luxury as it once was, is it? It's just a treatment.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:53

Yeah, yeah, it's um yeah, yeah, it's a crazy thing to we need to be very aware that it's a treatment, it's uh we're always shaping those conversations around lash technicians about what what do they do and stuff, but if it initially that that treatment exists because somebody wants it, yeah, of course. And if that those somebody's it's the amount of them shrunk, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:17

If a beginner, if someone's listening now and they're struggling with clients, do you have any advice that you could probably give them?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

Oh yes, back to the marketing, the reason why beginners are not booked up because they have a fundamental problem with the quality of their product. Okay, right? So the lashes they make, they're maybe not looking that nice, they're all crisscrossed, they're stickies, they don't last, yeah, etc. And of course the retention rate, the clients are coming in, trying, don't like it, it leaves work with your mom, sisters, whoever you can, perfect the product, the proposition first, then making sure you market it, go out, post online, put on social media, get that customer, but make sure this customer stays with you. The same rules apply. Perfect your product and then start getting into marketing. The perfection of the product, the product is with the beginners, but the problem is the product is not good enough, which is your skill, your hands, your technique. Make it make it right, you'll be fine. Yeah, you'll be as easy as five in three months. Yeah, but but make this right. You don't have an opportunity. Too many people that you can practice on, they don't exist anymore. Now we're fighting for each customer. Yeah, it's true. You cannot just give them whatever product you have on the table. It's like, you know, yeah, when you come into the restaurant, they don't just throw whatever on your table, they're cooking it carefully for you. They make sure it's the tastiest possible, then they'll make sure you come back.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:56

Because even if you're not having c that many clients. Or like that many models to practice on. Dole's head is really good to practice because you can really focus on direction, your attachment, even the layering. You've got the doll's head. Like I've got the doll's head from London Lash, where it's three layers. Three layers, exactly. There is in some ways I never when you have all of that, there's not really much excuse to not practice, really, is there? Exactly. But I think you just get deflated because when there it is harder to get clients, I think that's where a lot of people struggle because they almost get in their own head.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:33

Yes, but forget about that first because that's a marketing side. And it's even hard to market when your product is not good enough. When you're taking a picture of that product and your set is not looking that great just yet. How are you gonna sell yourself? So first perfect the product, what you're doing by practicing on the money can just put the net Netflix on and just do lashes while you I used to do it. Exactly. You don't you could just do it every single day. You'll be so good in three months. You'll be so good, ready to go to the market. Then you get in a few models, do their lashes for free, learn how to take the good quality pictures, how to do it, just do um a little mood board on Pinterest on Instagram, save it in the folder of the angles you like, of the way the people they they film it, yeah. Just experiment and create that good portfolio, um, create that Google page, set up that right um profile on the booking system, and that's all, you're off to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:40

And I even found out the other day, booking systems actually have my booking system, doesn't have this, but say for like Fresher, for example.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:48

Oh, they have everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:49

So you can actually be put on a fresher like a forum and such. And if someone's looking for you or in that area, you come up. Yeah, I never knew that till about two days ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:00

It's a so changing place. Oh my god, yeah, that's so good. You know how I caris because I was always trying to look at the business from the consumer perspective. And I remember I was coming to the um what I did, I was coming to the shops like uh Caris, Caris PC, remember? Caris PC when they sell computers and stuff. Oh, okay, right, right, right. Maybe I don't pronounce it well. Caris, Caris PC. Anyways, you and I would go there on one of the laptops, and usually connected to the internet, and I would put uh eyelash salon in London or eyelash extensions near me, and just see what's popping out, popping down. So I wanted my website to show up, but I've also noticed that um you know cheat well, it was uh um called Wahanda at that time, it was popping up all the time, it's the first time. It's popping up as the first time I despons people will click through. If people will click through, I need to be there, and I need to be and I need to be uh on the first page. So I'm just thinking, first step, I need to be there. Second thing, I need to be on the first page. What do I need to do for that? I need to build some uh reviews for that. So I was doing that because I had a team of Large Technicians. I wanted to speed up them booking up and they're constantly recruiting the new LASH technicians. I needed that thing, but I was really properly using it to as a marketing tool to get booked up and it was working really, really well. No, it sounds like it was working really well because we were busy all the time in the last time.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:34

Yeah, and I think it's something actually quite little, which makes a huge difference as well. But I think you just need to see it in a different way from the customer's point of view, always as well. Always as us, yeah. I completely agree. I wanted to talk about the future of the industry and what you think of where the industry is heading. Where do you think, I don't know, in a year's, five years' time, what do you think the industry is gonna be like? Are we gonna still be clean girl era or are we gonna go into being crazy catapil and mega volume? I hope not.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:04

What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:06

I think it will stay. I think how I feel like we're becoming more comfortable in ourselves, which I love. I love that whole everyone's very, I am just me. Body positive, authentic. I love it, yeah. And I do think that is maybe it will stay, but I know so many people that lashes are a part of who they who their identity and that's also the part of being authentic, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:35

And being real, that's fine. Yeah, but I I agree with you, I think that it will stay as it is. Uh it might drop a little bit simply because that wellness is just overwhelming by that whole movement to be healthier, to eat clean food, to eat, you know. We just had a chat about it too. Um and I suppose um, you know, the angle of it's less artificial beautifying of ourselves, more uh genuine beautifying us as a human beings from all the angles is having you know, instead of putting foundation on your skin, actually making sure you don't consume sugar, you don't consume that it's just so you naturally have that perfect skin, yeah. Instead of um using well serums, they've been super popular again. Instead of using eyelash extension, using other ways to grow their lashes so they grow eyelash serums, eyelash serums, lash lifts, lash lifts are enhancing your natural lash look rather than artificially making.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:58

So I feel like the whole makeup industry, the whole is just going because even makeups died down in the sense of how we appear, how much we've put on, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:11

Yeah, we'll probably put the same amount but different. How we style it, perhaps. But I think it will come as more people will adapt healthier life last lifestyle. Well, I've noticed for myself, for example, when I stop consuming sugar, I don't have much uh inflammation in my skin, I don't have spots, I don't really need foundation. If I had a good sleep, I don't have dark circles under my eyes. So I don't need to use neither foundation nor concealer because my skin looks looks fine, I'm happy with it. So and the this is a big wellness movement right now. It's happening. Yeah, it's really noticeable for me as a human being. I can see other people stop drinking alcohol, exercising, uh just trying to eat organic, whole food.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

Your body is your tempo, yeah exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:59

And I feel that was all kind of against artificial beautification. Um, so I think the industry will remain as it is because a lot of people love it. Yeah, but whether younger generation, whether it's 18 years old, will be into that, or maybe it will die. It's like wine industry is dying, right? Did you know? No, wine industry is massively shrinking because young people they don't drink alcohol. Actually, alcohol industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:26

They don't actually go to the pubs, do they?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:29

No, but they just don't drink because they know that why would you if you just open Char GPT and read about all the um negative uh um yeah things that alcohol does to your body. I don't drink for I stop drinking, gosh, imagine even me. Um but younger generation, they they they don't drink in, and the wine especially they might drink cocktails occasionally, but they don't drink wine, and the generation of wine drinkers uh they're they're dying. Practically dying because they're mostly like 50 plus, 60 plus, uh, and they're shrinking massively.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:08

So that's a big um what could artists do to keep their buses, businesses going long term? Do you think if it if there is a point where it might stay on the clean girl era, do you think maybe they should focus on a different style or different avenue?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:28

Well, exactly. I think you need to be open to the different treatments, just not never think that eyelash extensions that's something I'm going to do. Never hone yourself in the hole because the most like you can see that a lot of people who the struggling, the suffering the most is that stubborn people who are like, no. Remember when we were migrating even from heavy Russian volume to a bit more kind of uh lighter looks, and even now we've got loads of kind of bit more uh trending um how do you call those?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:02

You've got like the wispy lamy effects.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:05

Isn't it? But you've got those people who are no I'm going to, and they're the ones who are suffering because their clients they want something else, they're leaving them. Um, instead of getting retrained, they're just being stubborn and thinking, oh, this is I I'm loving it and this is what I'm going to do. I mean, that is fantastic. You can carry on doing that, and you might actually acquire the customers who love you for that. But generally, that's not the best strategy. The best strategy is being flexible and move with the market, whatever it is, retrained to do more lash lifts. Uh, Mila, who is running London Lash Manchester, for example, my friend Mila, she used to do only um eyelash extensions. Now she does, I think, well, probably 50-50 nails lashes. Oh, so she's had a little bit of a mixture. Yes, a lot of lash lifts as well, but but nails are really taking over in her salon. So, you know, she's it's just maybe being open, exactly, and flexible, and that's okay. Yeah, it's okay to not be okay and change, but that's temporary.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:05

So, coming towards the end, we've got some listeners' questions. Okay, and actually, you did just speak about UV, and this is a question. I would love to know what Hannah personally thinks of UV LED lashing system, as its safety seems controversial. Yeah, some of my clients are against it, but it is becoming very popular, and the retention with this system is highly praised by some lash artists. So, what do you think of UV?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:32

Okay, I've got the mixed feelings. Um, I know a lot of people who converted to UV and happy. I know a lot of people who tried UV and not happy. So I think it's like anything, it has its pros and cons. And for me personally, I've tried it. Um, I think for me personally, I didn't like it was a bit of a strain on my body, but maybe I just needed to get I had a guest who said she did the pedal and she said she felt like her foot was aching. So um I think it's a product that is definitely not for beginners, uh, because it very quickly polymerized the adhesive. And then imagine if you don't um uh do your placement very well and you have any sticky baby lashes, it'll be extremely difficult to isolate them after that. With the regular adhesive, we've got some time to make those manipulations there.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:36

If your technique isn't there, you're gonna run into problems. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:39

Yeah, so that is to say, so is it uh for everyone? Absolutely not. Is that for maybe for the category um who is like experienced slash technicians? Yeah, probably worth exploring. However, if you're happy with your current adhesives, you don't have a pro problem or anything, stick to it. Also, you know, when they say oh retention is going to be longer, that that is always a debatable question, isn't it? You know, you know, do you really want your clients to come in in four weeks instead of two weeks or three weeks? You know, then you need to double up on your customer base. Your clients are happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:18

So yeah, it's a mindfield that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:20

That's a mindfield of answers, uh, questions and answers. So we we're launching the UV lamp soon, we're launching our first glue soon. We're going to exploit more glues to make sure we have enough glues for every um customer. It's a work in progress. Uh am I excited? Um, I don't know. Um, I think it's just something that needs to be done. Yeah. Um, and you're open to it. I've got the mixed yeah, I've got a mixed opinion. I'm a little bit worried about beginners. I'm a little bit worried of what could cause like stickies and not able to isolate them without pain, and they'll be scared and they'll just believe in the main and how much damage it could potentially cause. So, yes, I'm needs to be experimented. Needs to be experimented. We'll see how it goes. I'll tell you more maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:08

Um, one more from a listener. It is what do you do in your spare spare time to unwind and care for your mindset?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:16

I do jigsaw puzzles.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:18

Do you? I love a jigsaw puzzle. You need to come together, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:24

I love jigsaw puzzles, and uh almost I even checked some competitions because I'm quite fast in jigsaw puzzling. So I was checking even how to enter the competition, but I need to practice to get to the speed of uh people who are competing.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:38

Hidden talent.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

Yeah, but 500 pieces, they compete in 500 pieces, and the winners they do it at around like I think 40 minutes, as far as I remember, my fastest one, one hour 30 minutes of one of 500 pieces. Um, so it needs a lot of practice before I can do it, but I I leave it for my retirement.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:02

You'll be at the competition village. You need more trophies, it won't be lush related to be puzzles. Imagine.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:07

It's that boring.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:09

I love that. I love that about you, but it's great. So the ending is a beyond five round. So beyond five is quick fire round, it's only a few questions, it's just light and fun. So whatever comes to your mind, it's nothing serious, it's just a little bit of fun to get to know you a bit later. Let me do it. What's your go-to comfort food after a long day of work?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:35

I'm sorry, poor vegan people are vegetarian.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:38

It's uh a steak. Oh, yeah. My other half Jackie loves a steak. I love a steak. One word your friends would use to describe you.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:50

A friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:51

Yes, I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:54

Ambitious.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:55

Very ambitious. What tool or product could you never live without? So it doesn't have to be lash related, it could be anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:04

SPO 50 plus.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:06

Good one. Love that one. What's the biggest lesson you've learned so far?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:12

Um you should be flexible as a human being, you know, because life is changing around you.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:20

Swim with the waves. Swim with the waves. If you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:28

Uh listen to what Abby was telling you. Listen to Abby. Listen to Abby. Yes, listen more, listen to people more. Don't be stubborn. Listen more.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:40

Okay, so out of one to thirty, pick a number.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:44

One to thirty.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:45

Yeah, pick a number. Out of one to thirty. Well, this is a good one for you. Coffee, matcha, or energy, energy drink. What's your fuel?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:55

Now coffee. I should have started they told me I started drinking espresso. Just now, before it was matcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:02

I was gonna say you was a matcha because I remember announcing a guest and everyone thought it was you. Everyone thought, this is Hannah, she loves matcha. And I was like, does she? My other guest is true.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:12

Adores matcha. I love matcha, but they've stopped. Yes. Well, not stopped, I'm still having it. Uh, energy drink, I've stopped completely. Um, diet coke stopped completely. See my wellness moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:25

I've never been into like fizz, and I tried matcha, but it tasted like grass, and then I just couldn't really. I'm just a tea. I'm a tea holiday.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:33

That's good. I love me. I love a good meaty, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:36

What did I want to say? Thank you so much for today. I've honestly absolutely loved it, and I know everyone who's either watching or listening is gonna adore this episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:47

I got something.

unknown 1:44:48

Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:50

Um, for anyone who just wants to connect with you, I know you obviously have your London Lash Instagram. But can you give your personal Instagram? Because I know you have your yeah, what is your Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:01

It's Hannah underscore London Lash. Perfect. Yes, I think so. Oh Hannah underscore London underscore lash. Whatever it is, you can make it in the show. Yes. Let's just do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:12

But anyway, I loved it. So thank you so much. Thank you so much, Caris. Thank you so much, everyone, for the listening.