Episode 63 - Mikey Banks

On June 15, 2022, Mikey got clean and sober after years of battling addiction and multiple attempts to take his own life. His journey to recovery came only after reaching a place of deep desperation, when enough had been taken from him that he finally found the strength to fight back.

Through those darkest years, Mikey’s beautiful wife never left his side. She stood by him faithfully, even though watching him slowly destroy himself hurt her just as deeply as it hurt him. Her love and loyalty became part of the foundation he would eventually build his recovery upon.

Since becoming clean, Mikey’s life has been transformed. Recovery opened his eyes to beauty in places he once could not see. Today, Mikey considers himself rich not because of money, but because of the abundance of love, connection, and purpose in his life.

What was freely given to Mikey in his recovery, he now gives freely to others. It has become his personal mission to leave the world better than he found it, helping people one by one, bit by bit.


Find Mikey on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/mikeybanksrr?igsh=cjdqbGVwcTY1YW0x

Mikey’s I AM movement:
https://ko-fi.com/s/08ce0f2ede?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAVERFWAQfukxleHRuA2FlbQIxMABzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAaeufUiTElMI_NykYbXbptQYoXX3jW8qHGmrEfdWwTPdsVqnctQH_vN_UxE89Q_aem_iwdJxxQaejNGs8CkjSgBkg

The Better Together Ball:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-better-together-ball-tickets-1981878757715?aff=oddtdtcreator&fbclid=PAVERFWAQfuphleHRuA2FlbQIxMABzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAac8fyV2wmls0UytOODHCIKo1bKuwHc6sgNLvqvs9_ni9Skk2ifuX2TvXbZmUA_aem_mkjXW3KvC70e598ed3yWuw

A Star is Born:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1517451/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

The Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate:
https://amzn.eu/d/0d5xfdRI

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey hey hey, welcome back to After Hours with me, Jimmy Thistle. Hey guys, um yeah, today uh like an amazing episode. I know all my episodes are amazing, but you know, um Mikey, Michael Banks, Mikey B and I have been following each other for a couple of months. Um his Instagram has just blown up. Um he's such a powerful message, um, uh which you'll hear all about in the in the podcast. Uh Mikey, you know, he grew up on a council estate um up in Aberdeen, uh, but he didn't go without. Uh he was loved and cared for by his parents, and you know, that was kind of the main the main thing with him. Um drinking began, you know, about 12-13 and he loved it. It wasn't his initial thing, he used it kind of, I suppose, as a a kind of going out, you know, um socializing tool, confidence booster, I guess. Um, but he did enjoy the kind of way it made him feel. Um and he he he kind of left school, went to you know, do an apprentice uh joinery thing. So he was already in amongst adults who were drinking, and then and then he found cocaine. But you know, as he said in the podcast, he could he could afford it, he didn't have many outgoings, didn't have a mortgage at that point, so you know there wasn't any kind of warning signs or anything. Um you know, but once things did get really kind of hard because his usage started getting so bad, and he was already with his his his now wife at that point and they had a house, he started dealing to fund his habit. Um, you know, and that led to debt, uh worries, violence, hardship. And eventually, you know, it became too much, and he wasn't even dealing for other people, he was basically going and getting his own use from the dealers, bringing home maybe a couple of hundred quid a week, um, giving that to his wife, uh, whereas he was putting out thousands to the dealers, um, you know, and things got so bad that he eventually got an absolute pasting from the dealers. They said either you come and get your licks today or we go and set about your house tonight and you'll be sleeping out in the cold. So there was a choice there, and basically he took the licks, you know, got absolutely battered. Um, and then Mikey set a date for when he was gonna end his own life. So it's a very powerful emotional upsetting episode, but you know, I think a lot of people will take uh a lot from it. Um I just wanna, you know, there is talk of violence, talk of suicide, uh as I said. So please be aware in the episode and um you know, as always, listen for the similarities and not the differences, guys. See you at the end of the Mikey, welcome to After Hours, mate. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I'm good, I'm good, how are you? Thank you very much for inviting me along. Absolutely buzzing for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Oh mate, no, I'm absolutely buzzing as well. As I say, we've we've we've kind of had we've had a little bit of kind of tech not technical issues, but just kind of scheduling issues and all that. So it's so good to finally kind of get it nailed down and have a conversation with you. Because I think I think we maybe started following each other. Was it it must have been before it was last year, some point, wasn't it?

unknown 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

And I just I love your content, mate. Your your your Instagram's just blowing up, man. It's like it's just gone crazy. So yeah, your posts are just awesome. Um, but yeah, where whereabouts in the world are you, mate?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I'm in Aberdeen, Scotland. Uh born and born and raised here. Uh, yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

I lived in uh uh not Stonehaven, that's where my grandparent, uh my papa was from Stonehaven, he was born and raised there. We moved from Glasgow in about two uh 1997-98 to uh what is um it's not not Port Letham. What's the one next to it? Cove. Cove uh Cove, no, further down towards Stonehaven. Oh, this is this is great. I can't even remember near Muckles. Um it'll come back to me, mate. Yeah, but we we lived there for a couple of years and then I moved into Aberdeen. I was doing college at Aberdeen College, um worked in the uh the Hogs Head, the old town schoolhouse on Little Belmont Street. So I was the manager in there for a couple of years, and yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was like way back 2000, I think I left there, so yeah, yeah. But it was, you know, I loved Aberdeen, it's an absolute great, great city, so yeah, I do miss it. I do miss it.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

It's it's got really good parts, really bad parts. You know, it depends where you look. Same same as everywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Oh, absolutely, yeah, without without a doubt. I mean, that's that's that's the thing, isn't it? We we uh we I mean Glasgow's a great city, but obviously it's got some of its uh its rougher ends and it's not so nice, savory places. But it's the same as the Island here where I am. You know, Douglas is Douglas is a lovely city, but I don't spend much time in there because I'd rather be out in the countryside than doing other things, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I'm I I like the countryside a lot more, which is quiet. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Uh so Mikey, tell us tell us about your kind of childhood, what it was it like, um, and then when did alcohol and substances kind of first enter into your life?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Uh well, you know, alcohol and substances, alcohol especially, has always been a part of my life. Uh when I started taking it and and and drinking and using things is is a different story. But you know, I grew up I grew up in a council state in Aberdeen. Um I had loving parents, we didn't have everything we ever wanted, we didn't have all the money in the world, but we had uh love and safety in the house.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Um food on the table. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

My dad provided us provided well, and my mother loved us well. Uh so I can't really complain about my childhood, but uh we with inside my house, but outside the house, you know, we we got up to mischief in our council state, you know, we we enjoyed mischief. Uh you know, over the years we we we got up to all sorts of mischief with primary school and and and and out and about doing doing all sorts of crazy stuff because we didn't have phones or or computers and stuff back then. You know, we had to entertain ourselves, you know. I and you know, sometimes I think it was a blessing and a curse. Uh I think more mainly a blessing getting out of the house all the time. You know, I was never in, I was always out, always out. Um substances and alcohol was the first one for me. You know, alcohol was the first drug I ever took. I was a young I was quite young, you know, maybe 12, 13 years old when I first first tried my first drink. Probably younger than that, but you know, when I really remember it, probably 12, 13 years old.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

And uh I mean I think there's a difference, because like for me, I'm definitely sure like my parents split up when I was six, but I definitely must have had, you know, sips of my dad's beer when he was around, and maybe a glass of my mum's well, not a glass but you know, a sip of the wine and all that. Um but for me, I you know, I think I think y it's when you first got absolutely blitzed or whatever, when when you did that with your mates or whatever, and I think that's that's for you for what, what, 1213 or whatever? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Yeah, well, that's probably yeah, 1213, probably 13. I think uh I think when I went to secondary school, first year. Yeah, yeah. You're pushing the boundaries a little bit, and uh you're buying big three-liter bottles of white lighting inside there for one night thing or whatever it was. You know, it was cheaper chips. It was it was it was literally cheaper than chips. Uh and and and we used to go out and get absolutely blutered in the park in the railway line and uh didn't think anything of it. But and and when I was there, I didn't think much of it. It was kind of normal, you know. Everybody their their big bottles of cider or their Skittles vodka or whatever, whatever else I had. Skittles vodka. I forgot about that. We used to put a bottle of vodka with a pack of Skittles in it, was it sorted?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Well, we used to, yeah, I remember some of the some of my mates did that, but we me and my other mate, we'd get uh we'd get uh each get a bottle, a glass bottle of iron brew, pour out half of that, and then pour in a half bottle of vodka. Obviously, that wasn't our first drink, but that was what we kind of you know progressed up to. So that's pretty hard stuff. And that was maybe yeah, that was still probably 14-15 we were doing that, and that was it. We only had one bottle, whereas the others were carrying about, I don't know, like maybe 10 bottles of beer or something like that, whereas we were like, I've just got my bottle of iron brew. From the outset, it doesn't look like I'm drinking, you know, it's just a bottle of iron brew, a bottle of ginger, and uh yeah, yeah, but it's just it's just madness in it. So what what what do you think that first drink felt like to you? You know, those first kind of times when you were going out. What what what kind of feelings did you get from that?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

It felt it f it felt like something new, it felt a little bit edgy, yeah, a bit cool because I was doing it. Uh and you know, when I when I got when I was drunk, I I didn't really like the feeling, to be honest with you. When I first done it, I didn't I didn't enjoy the feeling, but I kind of wanted to fit in. Uh I kept doing it. You know, I hear a lot of people, you know, I felt this the first time I got drunk, that was it. I knew it. I knew this is what I wanted to do. Um it wasn't exactly like that. I I I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be accepted. I wanted people to accept me, however, whatever version I had to be, I wanted them to accept me. Um and and and back then it was drinking, drinking, smoking fags and and whatever whatever else we're getting up to. And then before I knew it, it became like a normal thing. You know, Friday night we would go down to the shops, we would stand beside the shop and ask some poor bugger to buy a drink until somebody did. And then we are stuck in our merry way for the night, and you know, the the the horrible sights you would see and and that were normal, you know, people laughing on puke in the middle of the a dark railway, and that's just a normal night. You would laugh at them, you know. Sometimes it was me. Uh, and and just like that every weekend, every single weekend was like that, all the way through my teens.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

And uh But the thing is, you would hear, we would hear, I mean, I don't think any of my direct close mates or crew or whatever ever had to get their stomachs pumped, but you were hearing stories like when you'd get back to school on Monday, like so and so in the year above, or whatever, had to get his stomach pumped and all that, and it was like like we all I th I guess in my head I thought, oh well, I would never drink that much. Do you know what I mean? We were we were drinking just as much, it was just he was or she was unlucky, and they drank over that edge, and then their body, you know, reacted against it. So we were all we were all throwing those dice. It didn't matter whether we thought we were doing it safely and not as bad. Like I'm drinking half a bottle of vodka on a night at a 50 14-15-year-old. That's way too much for a 14-15-year-old. Do you know what I mean? It's insane. And also the the the fact that and I've spoken numerous times on here, it seems the case where obviously we're 14, 15, and 16, we're getting other random adults to go into the shop for us. Like you're you you're a father, I'm a stepfather. There's no chance, not even with us being fit parents or whatever, there's no chance I would go in for a kid. Do you know what I mean? There's just no chance. So, what were these people thinking?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

A few times over the years. Uh, I've been asked from kids at Silent Say shops a few times, just a f maybe two or three times over the years of of being of being an adult. No way, no, sorry, Paul. And you feel really awkward for them, you know. You feel you almost feel bad for them, like, I know you've been standing here for hours in the rain asking people, but I'm a person, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

It's not even worth it though. That's the thing. Like, if you were to get caught or something happened to that kid and they shopped and said, Oh, it was that Mikey guy that that got me, and then they had to get their stomach pumped, or lose my mind.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

My mind that I don't thought it was acceptable to do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, yeah. They just thought, I think I think back in the day they thought, oh, they're just having a laugh, what's the what's the harm and all that? But I think the attitudes are definitely changing. I mean, I I know for a fact that there's no way I would do that now. But maybe there are people out there that still do it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

I don't know. We had a we had a guy, we had a guy that was in our little friend circle, and by the time he was 15, he uh he he he looked like he was 23, 24 years old, so he was perfect for us, you know. Uh yeah, closed this line, two seconds, sorry. Aye, aye, no worries.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Um I was gonna say there was when I was about 15, I had a wee bit stubble, like I didn't look 18, there's no chance of that happening, but they would they started serving me in the shop because you know, every now and then you would just go, I'm just gonna try tonight and see if I can get sold. And I'd go in, and then one time like the magic thing happened. And at one point, I was there was older kids like asking me to go in for them, and I was just like, on your bike, lads. I've already been in for our own, so I go back in and ask for this and that. So yeah, yeah. So how did how did kind of school and did you do college or did you do apprenticeship? What what was that?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

My secondary school, I I I enjoyed it, you know. I I was never days off. I I had my friends all up one of my friends around me. Me and my friends felt like the the kings of school, you know. We we absolutely loved it. We arrived there, and then when I left school, I started apprenticeship as a joiner. Right. Straight out of school, straight into apprenticeship. Um so I came out of school as a little 15-16-year-old lad. Straight into the bad world, where things are a lot different. You know, I remember my first Christmas night out at work. I sat next to a guy that was at my work that was that was an alcoholic. Oh, right. And and we got drink after drink after drink after drink, and by the time I stood up, I just stood up and just sit down. You know, I drank that much trying to keep up again, trying to be good.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Of course, and you're 16 and you're out with all these adults that have been drinking solidly for years, and obviously it's like this rites of passage thing, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

No, and and for for me, you know, alcohol's all it was always a part of my life, but then drugs came along, and drugs were that's when I got my this is it for me. Yeah, you know, I enjoyed a drink. Um, alcohol was always around, it was always part of celebrations, part of the weekend, Friday. I'm finished work, or even I'm just finished work, it was always there, and then drugs came along, and it just blew my mind, and I thought this is me now. Now I'm talking and uh I didn't realise it back then that it was digging its claws into me, yeah, surely because I wasn't uh a problem user at that point, you know. I was maybe using it when I was going out the weekend having a drink and stuff. And what are we talking?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

We talk ecstasy, cocaine, cocaine, cocaine, yeah, yeah. And the thing is, you're like, you know, by the time you're what like uh like 18, you've been doing your apprenticeship for a couple of years, you're probably qualified, you're making good money. So whatever drugs and alcohol, and I don't want to put words in your mind, but whatever drugs and alcohol, you can afford it because you've not got maybe mortgage or kids or anything at that point, so this is just kind of spending cash. So you're not like somebody that's you know uh, you know, you know, not been able to put food on the table or whatever, and then they're still going and drinking and using. Do you know what I mean? You're you're doing all right, so it's like why is that a problem?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah. At that point, I was ticking all the boxes, you know. I was paying what little bills I had. Uh I was going to work every day and I was having a blowout every weekend, and you know, nobody nobody questioned it because you know, Mike, he deserved a blowout. He's worked hard all week, yeah, and he's with all his mates doing what he does, you know, and and and the longer that went on on for the the less people that were there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

So there's people, there's people at the beginning, there's all your mates doing it, like with me, there's everyone's doing it, and then it's like again, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but for me it was like I started finding different little pockets of friends that I could go to because I knew that like this certain group would be like, oh well, I've already been out last weekend, I don't want to go out this weekend and have another big blowout. So I would find different groups so that I was out constantly, but I wasn't the the same groups of friends weren't out every time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

By the time I'd hit about 22, I'd uh I I'd sort of found my my people where where drugs were acceptable, where everything that doing it every every other day was acceptable. And uh, you know, once I moved out and got a got a house, I got a flap with my my my then girlfriend, uh my wife, um we we you know I I realised how expensive drugs and alcohol were. So my bright idea was to start selling drugs. That was my idea, right? I'm gonna start selling drugs and make a bit more money. And for the first couple of years, it it did. I made I made okay money, and and we'd done things, went to holiday twice a year, and a couple of cars and all the usual pests that we that people talk about. Uh materialistic bullshit I had. But never there. I was always out, I was always chasing money, I was always being chased for money. And uh, you know, by the time I was probably 26, I was completely out of control. It was it was it was all gone, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Uh I'd had Can I can I ask Mikey? Was so so you said your your your then girlfriend who's now your wife, is that correct? Yeah. And was she I'm guessing she was aware of what you were doing? Because you were still you were still being a joiner, you were still doing joinery, but then doing nothing aside. She was aware. Yeah. Maybe not to the extent.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Not to the extent, you know, I didn't tell her everything. She knew that um I was up probably up to no good. She knew that money was coming from places that probably money shouldn't have been coming from. Um, but she probably just stayed blissfully in her little bubble to make sure and and she was never involved in it. She never she's never been a big drinker, she's never been one for taking drugs at all. She's absolutely so uh she didn't want anything to do with it. And uh but I used to come home every day from work. I was still paying bills at this point. Yeah, yeah, holidays, big TV, and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

So doing all the shebang, and then it just I I mean, I don't remember the actual day or even the month, but I remember I was about 26 and it just went just skydived over over the course of about six months. You know, I'd got myself piles and piles of debt with and and not the kind of debt where you get letters through your door. No, no, no. Yeah, come through your door and uh more stress. I'm now not paying bills, I'm just struggling to put food on the table. I'm gonna have to manipulate my mum and her mum to give me money to buy shopping for food. And and and it, you know, every time I thought I hit rock bottom, it would get worse and worse. So when I first you know, when I was a young man, early 20s, I had a set of morals right up here. And by the time I got to the end of my twenties, I went right down the bottom. I had no more, no line that I wouldn't cross. All the things that I said I wouldn't do, I'd done it. You know, all this and it and and you know, I wouldn't steal from my children, I wouldn't steal from my mum, I wouldn't do this to fund that, and I've done it all. I wrote anything that wasn't nailed down, I took and sold. And by the time I was 28, I was I was I was just gone. I was done. You know, uh I was a daily, daily user, I was drinking, and and and by the way, at this point, I still didn't think I had a drinking problem. Right. I just don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

How much are you using daily with the cocaine? Are you talking like because obviously what did what is it they say, don't get high on your own supply. Clearly, you were doing that, and that's where the debt was coming in because you were trying to sell it, but you were probably selling to make your own personal use available, but then that's gone over what you're actually selling. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

By the time I nobody I wasn't I wasn't selling anymore, I was just ducking and diving to get my own bit. And I was using I was using a few grams a day. Yeah, yeah. That is you know, it's expensive, you know. It's a couple of a few hundred couple of hundred quid.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Oh, I could do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So and I wasn't making that money, so I was still ducking and diving. I was still out in the rob or bumping people off or or or stealing or or robbing drug dealers or whatever it was you were trying to do to try and get to put food on the table.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Maintain maintain this facade to everybody else that I'm doing okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Are you still working? Are you still doing joinery at this point?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Wow, so you're still doing your kind of day-to-day working, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

I used to get up and leave my house half an hour early, earlier than I would have, to go down to my dealer's house and get before I went to work. I couldn't function without it. I felt like nothing worked, and then I was self-employed. I started my own business and was self-employed, and I thought this is gonna be it. I'm gonna and I found out I was contracted to a good job, I was making decent money, and I thought this is gonna be it. And the more money I made, the more money I spent. I I spent I used to take home like uh a few hundred quid to my house, and that's my money for the week, sweetheart. I I've struggled to get money paid in and stuff like that, but it really all really listed this. I was paying about a thousand pounds a week out to to dog down and and and and taking home this little pocket of money and pretending that I'm still waiting for bills to be. Paid and quotes and and invoices to be paid, and and it it just got worse from there, you know. And by the end of it, and and like I said at this point, I still didn't think I had a drinking problem, but I used to drive about with a bottle of whiskey in my car all the time. There was always a bottle of whiskey in my car because the whiskey helped take the edge off the drugs.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Of course, of course, yeah, because you can drink and drink and drink when you're on cocaine. And I mean like for me at the end, I was like, I was drinking, I was drinking daily, and it was the first thing I did in the morning, you know, and the last thing I did at the evening. What would you say well like would you I mean you're saying you didn't think you had a drinking problem at that time? Did you know that there was a cocaine problem?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yes, I knew I I knew it mainly because I could see that I was doing it by myself, alone in my car, wasn't I have friends around me anymore? There was no BLIC.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

This is not recreational, this is not a party drug. This is you doing it to function, to get to your job, and obviously the money. And did your wife at this point, like you're obviously giving her this smaller packet to pay at the end of the week, but you're putting thousands out on your on your habit and and and debts. Did she know at this point that like there's gotta be something? Because I mean your your personality, your whole demeanour must have changed. You must have been a bit rattly most of the time. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

And she she begged me, she she she she begged, she tried to convince and and persuade me and getting help. I just wouldn't do it. I just not I don't want help, I don't want it, I don't need it. I can stop anytime I want. And I used to make all the promises in the world. I promise, you know, that's it for me. And then I would try and hide it, and she had this magical way of always knowing when I was on it. She always she always knew. Even I could walk, I could look in the mirror and go, Oh, that'd be sweet, I'm sound. Walk the house, she'd be like you take someone.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

You know, you know, and uh I wonder at this point, even if she can maybe spell the alcohol on you, she probably doesn't even think that that's an issue because there's a bigger issue because there's a cocaine issue, so it doesn't even matter at this point if she's smelling booze in your breath because that's a small, you know, kind of price to pay for this this massive cocaine issue that's going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

It was a the cocaine was the biggest issue because oh it it brought in, you know, I had people come to my door for money, I had trouble, you know, fighting outside my front door, and and all this trouble we used to get into. And by the time I got to end uh being 28, coming on to 29, I was in so much debt, and so much people chasing me for money, and got myself in so much butter that I had no idea what to do. So I'm now begging my parents to to give me money to pay off drug debts, and I've just telling you that they knew I had a problem as well, and I would manipulate them into giving me money to pay off drug dealers, and and and you know, I'm their little boy, so so they've done it. And but it wasn't always all the time, you know. By by like I said, by the end of 2019, just before COVID hit, I was uh I would give a lot of money out, and the only they they gave me a choice. They said you can either come and take your licks and we'll give you an extra week, or you're gonna sleep cold tonight because we're gonna do your house in. And I was like, it's the middle of the day, I'm at work, and I'm like, fuck it, I'll come and take my licks, I'll come and meet you. And I thought they got a couple of slaps, you know, maybe punch my butt a little bit. And and and when I got there, there four of them jumped out of the car and and they beat the living shit out of me. They they stamped all over my head, they kicked my teeth out, uh spat on me, they laughed, joked, and they beat the shit out of me. By the time I was they was finished, there was just blood pouring down me. I was picking out teeth from my mouth and off the floor. And uh my first thing I wanted to do was go and use drugs. I wanted to go and pick up drugs, so I went to the shop, I asked if I could use the the bathroom in the shop in Tory, and I wiped my face and cleaned my face up, and off I went and picked up more drugs. And uh it just it just kept getting worse, you know. And and I had a group of friends from that were still my friends, but that would have helped me. You know, they were they were they were uh quote unquote tough guys, you know. I could have asked them for help.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go and sort them out type thing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

I was so ashamed and embarrassed that I'd got myself in such a mess with these people that I didn't want anybody else to know. You know, I went home that night and told my wife that I was working and a ceiling fell on me.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Oh Christ.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

So bad that it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

So you didn't go to hospital or anything like that, or the dentist even? No, you were just like, I'm gonna just deal with this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I I lost I lost five teeth, and uh so I've got my front ones all the side down here. Yeah. And stabbed on my head, spat on me, laughed at me, and it just didn't it didn't stop me using it.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

These guys, these were guys that you've probably been buying off for years and building that debt up, but people that you knew pretty well because you were you were buying them off, buying off them daily, yeah. So like I'm not going as far as to call them friends, but they were acquaintances, let's be honest. And now obviously you've owed them this money, and they're like, Yeah, we're just gonna kick shit out of you, mate.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, they it was awful. Uh and you know, looking back on it, you know, I could have I could have reached out and asked for help from somebody, um, but I was embarrassed. I was I was absolutely mortified that I got myself in such a mess. And this didn't stop me. This wasn't the point where I decided I was gonna go get help. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

It was just Mikey, it could have gone a lot worse. I mean, I'm not saying that like having five teeth knocked out and living daylights kicked out of you isn't bad enough. But let's be honest, people people are quite handsy with knives and that, you know. So you it might have ended even differently for you. Do you know what I mean? So thankfully that didn't happen. But I know exactly how you feel. That is the first thing that you go to. It doesn't matter whether, you know, I've been beat up and the first thing I wanted was a drink, and you know, it's it's because it's our best friend, the the addiction is so strong that we know that that is the one thing that's going to make us feel better. Whereas actually, all we what all we need to do is really go tell our loved ones, listen, I'm absolutely wrecked here. I don't know what I'm doing. I need help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Uh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the the even a week after that event, there was another guy that was all money to, and then he ended up he ended up coming at me and and and assaulting me. And it wasn't as bad as that one, but it just felt like a never-ending pool of shit just just just piling onto me. And I had all this, all this as well, is trying to be a dad. I was trying to be a husband, a dad, a son, an employee, a friend. Trying to be all these, and all I was doing was wearing a different hat every every time, you know, that today I'm wearing my I'm ducking and diving on the raw path, right? Home, I'm now a husband, I'm now a dad, I'm now a son boy. And I and I just I had no idea who I was or what I was, but I all I knew is that I just wanted it to stop. I wanted to I just wanted to just wanted a bit of peace for just a and you know it it it just kept me worse. You know, I I would say one of the lowest points for me was my my dad was uh made redundant from his job and he was sort of semi-retiring as well. And and with the money that he got from it, he bought himself a really expensive watch that he'd always wanted. And he bought this one. Really excited with his watch, and I think he had it about six months, and I stole it and sold it. Uh I sold this eight, nine thousand pound watch for for 400 quid. Uh you know, I eventually came clean to him, and we we did get the watch back eventually, but I remember waiting for them to go out the house. I was sitting around the corner waiting for them to leave.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Oh, yeah, pre-meditated, pre-meditated, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

And but one thing, one thing that I always tell people is that you know, people sometimes think that the addicts or people that are in these positions don't have any feelings, we don't have any feelings, we don't feel any remorse. But it's just simply not true. Of course. I felt remorse. I was ashamed while I was thinking about doing it, I was ashamed doing it, I was ashamed afterwards. It was all I was full of shame and guilt, but the need and want for what I was after was more. So it that had to be the the sacrifice I had to make to get what I wanted and what I needed. Uh and you know it by then uh by then by the time we got to the end of COVID, because COVID hit and it was almost like uh oasis for me. You know, I'm not going to work, but I'm getting paid because I'm a furlough. The weather was beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

You know, I was sitting in my back garden having barbecues every day with beers, and I didn't really have much problems. You know, I was drinking pretty much every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

But were you getting cocaine or had you kind of managing that?

SPEAKER_01 30:54

No matter what, I was always getting my getting what I needed. And uh it kind of it was kind of almost like a weird oasis that you know, nobody nobody's after me, you know, and it kind of settled down. Uh and I almost felt like, alright, I can maybe handle this now. What I'm good what and then lockdown got lifted and like that, back to it, back to my old shenanigans, and uh by March the 5th, 2022, I thought about it for a long time and I decided I was gonna end my life on the 5th of March 2022. So I wrote my wife a little letter, and my children, each of my children a letter, and my mum and dad a letter, all of them an individual letter, packed them all neatly, left them on bedside table, and off I went. Left my phone, I didn't need my phone, and just off I went. And uh, but I had a pocket full of drugs and a pocket full of drink. So anybody it's an addict that knows that they're not doing anything like that until that's fresh. So walking along every day and every and just doing what I was doing, and uh just sort of contemplating how I was gonna do it, where I was gonna do it. And I and by the way, I wasn't upset, I wasn't angry, I wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

No, but you'd made this decision. You'd made this decision a while back, and you were like, Do you know what this is this is what almost like this is what needs to happen because you feel like you're you're dragging your family down. Was your plan to enter the water then, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

My butt no, so there's a bridge. Um I won't mention the bridge, but uh there's a bridge uh on the River Dawn. Yeah. Uh and it's big enough for that. So that's what I was heading to. You know, I'd always thought I would take my own life, but I didn't want to do that to my children or my wife, didn't want them to have a dad that killed them stuff. And they didn't do it for them, but it came they came to a point that that it was almost like epiphany, like just a light bulb moment where I went, they'd be better grieving me than living with me. They'd be better grieving the loss of me than living with me. And and I just I I was I was okay with it. I was calm, I was I was comfortable with my decision to end my life.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

And how old were you at this point? You were uh 30. I was uh I was thir 32. 32, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

32 years old. And uh I had two children at that point and a wife at home. And uh I I was I was okay with it. I went out to have my own life club. My wife had obviously came home and seen the letters, she phoned the police and there's a missing person support out for me. I've been gone about 20 hours at this point. Right, right. Use drugs. Just you I had a because I'd I'd wasted all my money. I spent all my money on my last batch of drugs, so I can use all them, and then that's me.

unknown 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

So the last I was about 19 hours, I think, gone. And uh I was on my way to the bridge, and uh I was about five minutes away from it. Um these cars, they kind of triangled men and they jumped out of the car, they they grabbed me, they put me to the ground, the guy had his knee in the back of my neck, I was like, what the fuck is going on here? I know, but they I think they thought I was dangerous as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yeah, well, I mean they I think they've they've they can see the chance that you're not at the bridge yet, so rather than letting you or doing a sl slowly, so slowly, slowly, softly, softly catchy monkey type thing, they're just gonna take you down, get you cuffed and in the back of the wagon, and then let's deal with it. Yeah, yeah. Like if you were up, if you were up on the bridge sitting on the ledge, it'd be a different story, obviously. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Well, they they caught they caught me, and uh when they picked me up, there was a female police officer came over to me. Oh, not at this point all the time, but a female police officer came over to me and are you Michael? And I said, Yeah. And she said, Thank thank God we found you. And put her arms around me.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Put her arms around me, and I just it just melted. You know, it was uh it was the first bit of kindness anybody's shown me for a very long time without without having personal bias towards it, you know, and uh go back putting back the car. This is about four in the morning at this point. Uh back to the house. My wife seen the police car pull up and she thought that they were coming to tell her that they found my body.

unknown 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

And she clapped to the floor, and my mum was there, my dad was there, her mum and dad was there, my sister was there, there was just loads of family there. What did they find out if I'm okay? And the police car pulled up, they thought they were coming to tell them that they'd found my body. I walked in, and my wife ran up to me, wrapped her arms around me, told them she loved me, and I didn't even hug her back. I was I was just done. I feel as though I'd fought for so long, and I'd and I'd done so much fighting, and I was just done. I didn't have any fighting in the left. Uh I just thought they've just stopped me today. That's all they've done. They stopped me today.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

They've delayed the inevitable, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah. That's what I thought. And anyway, my mum and my dad were were worried about me. The police were worried about me. My wife was obviously worried about me. So my wife has told the police about my issues with drugs and and substances. And uh so the next morning came. I sat on the stuff all night, just sat and stared in space the whole night, didn't even move. I just I was just broken. I just didn't have left in me to fight anymore, or I did no more left to give. The next day, because I've been missing, I'd been to a support group, we'll call it, uh, before that to try and get help. But I used to go once a fortnight. Anyway, because I was missing, the police had contacted all these people to try and get in contact with me. And I woke up the next day and one of the guys phoned me. I answered the phone, he went, Oh, you okay? Yeah, yeah, I'm fine, mate. Absolutely fine, yeah, I'm good. And he's like, Really, really, mate, are you are you okay? And I sat at the back door of my house and balled my eyes out to him for four hours. Just just poured my heart to him. And he said, I'm gonna come and pick you up and and and we'll go to a meeting and and and just chill out for a minute. So he kept up and I used to sit in the meeting, my hood up at the back of the cat, just sit like that with a just no talking, no, no connection, nothing. Like people would give me their number or they would take my number, and as soon as I got the number, I block it because I was just interested.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Were you listening though?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

No, no, no, not even listening at that point. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

So sorry, I wasn't listening before that point. So the guy took me to a meeting that night, and there was a guy, a young lad, about my age, sharing that night, just sharing a story of what he'd went through. And he was at that point, uh, I think a hundred days clean and sober, you know, whatever you want to call it. And I was just sitting in the back and he was the same, pretty much the same age as me. He had a wife, he had children, he worked full-time, same stops and says, same, same everything. And he took him same ends on his knees. And I just my ears sort of perked up and I started listening a little bit. And I thought, I just had a tiny glimmer of hope. I thought, maybe, maybe I can do this. And at home that night I said to my wife, I'm gonna give this one more go. I told my wife, I told her, I said, I'm gonna give this one more go. If this doesn't work, Gemma, I'm done. I'm done. And so she was really supportive.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

And even though, sorry, sorry to batten Mikey, even though you're still going to the meetings at this point, are you are you at all clean and sober or are you still using it?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

That at that point, at that point I was one day. You were one day, right, okay, okay. Day before when I'd been trying to um life.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

So I thought I'm gonna give us a really good go. And I got 11 days, uh, which was outstanding. Eleven days don't know about this, but eleven days was the clear was the clearest I'd been for years and years, and then I relaxed. And I felt like shit when I relapsed. Uh, but I went I went back the next day and I got honest. I was like, I've relapsed, I've done this, I've done that, and instead of judging me and calling me fucking stupid or anything like that, you know, they the people that I'd met and connected with took men, they they they they listened, and I felt almost accepted. And then I got 54 days, 54 days I got, and uh life was starting to look good for me, you know. I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm sweet. Thank you very much. Cheerio. I'm off to bed. Yeah. Off about away, and I lasted four days. Four days. Because all I'd done was was get was was abstinence.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

That's all I'd done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hadn't worked on yourself or done anything yet. You haven't even got the 90 days either.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

No. So I relapsed again uh one night, and then and then that was it. That was the last time I'd ever used, which was the 15th of June, 2022.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Um well done, man. Well done.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

And uh I've never used since, you know. But one thing I will say, you know, and and I'll and I'll get into the story of how all of everything that's happened over the past four years, but one thing that I remember, I was about two weeks clean, two weeks clean over, and I came into my house, sat down at the table to have my supper, and my wife looked me dead in the eyes and went, You've taken something, haven't you? I was absolutely mortified. How dare you! How dare you accuse me of taking I haven't touched anything for weeks, and I'm working on myself, but in all realistic, you know, in all in all fairness, I'd been working on myself. Going to meetings, I had support from this person, that person, this group, that group. My wife had nothing.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Nobody she healed at a lot slower rate than I did. I got that point in my recovery, we'll call it, where I was like, I'm not this is this is me now. I'm never gonna the wild horses couldn't pull me back to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

But she's still she's still got to build that trust up and that that that trauma that she's been through, all those things. That's the thing we forget about the partners and and wives and husbands and whatnot that don't have the support. Obviously, there is some support some places, but we're all going to the meetings and then and then what are they, what are they got? What have they got?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

I argue that my wife struggles with it more than me. Yeah I would argue with my own.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Do you think it's and I don't know about you, but for me and my ex, I was when I was on it and I was in it, I was oblivious to everything else because I was numb. I was numb to the world, I was present. Whereas they're seeing it from sober eyes, they remember everything. They see what you're like at 3 in the morning or 6 a.m. or 4 in the afternoon. They see this all the time, and then they see you trying to get better, and then relapse and and then trying to get better, and then relapse and they're seeing it all from sober eyes, they're not they're not oblivious to it. So it's like, you know, of course, it's ingrained in their brain.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

I've been trying to do this for probably a year and a half, and I and I and I'd I'd picked up my my one day, I don't know how many times I had I had a drawer full of them, full of them. I end up, I don't I end up actually gathered them all up and give them to another meeting and saying, look, you can have them and your supply for the year, you know. Uh but my my wife, I uh she she she um she says it perfectly. She says the the the biggest issue for me was my happiness depended on you doing this. Yeah, and every time you didn't, and every time it fell apart again, a little part of me was broken. So every time it went to shit again, and then even when I was sure and and I was steadfast in what I was doing, she didn't trust it. She didn't trust that I wouldn't break her heart again or ruin her happiness or take that away from her. So it took her probably a year.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Yeah to be able to society tells her that that it's an addict, once an addict, always an addict, and that may be true, but obviously it doesn't mean that the addict's going to relapse continuously for the rest of their life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yeah, I I uh over the years, you know, um my opinion on labelling has changed. Yeah. My how I identify myself, how I talk to myself has changed. You know, I I I firmly believe when I first came in, and I firm I did firmly believe that I'm always gonna be this way, and this is me how I'm gonna be. I'm I'm always gonna be like this. I'm always gonna be waking up in the morning and going, just one day I need to get, just today, you know. And when you're first in, that is great advice.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

It's the best but best advice, but it changes, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 43:37

One day at a time, but it changes for me. For me, I I I don't label myself anymore. I don't I don't I don't identify you won't hear me in a video or anyone else saying I am an addict. You won't you won't hear it because I believe in the words I am, you know, and what after that. So I'm I'm not that anymore. I can still act out. I can. Still behave in in in in in bad ways. I still can fall short some places. But I have a selection of tools available to me. People, you know, different things that I do, breathwork, meditation, literature that I read, the people that I talk to. I don't surround myself with people that co-sign any of my bullshit. You know, if I've done something or says something or something, run it past somebody and they'll go, You're a dick. You know?

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Exactly. I mean, I think I totally agree with you because for the first year at least, anyway, that I was doing the meetings and in the rooms, and I was like, Yeah, my name's Jimmy, and I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic. And yeah, for but after a while, you know, that that becomes it becomes easier because I'm not thinking about it just being one day at a time and I'm I'm my life is longer and I've got other things going on. There's no like I know for a fact that if I was to go out again tomorrow and drink and you I would become an alcoholic addict again. That's what I would become because that never goes away. But right now, no, I'm not that, you know, and I don't label work.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

I I believe that if I if if for some wild reason I done that tomorrow, it wouldn't take me long. Because I've learned through experience that that that for me for relapse, if I go into relapse, I'm I'm 10-15 minutes, and I'm back to the same manipulative, conniving little little shit I was before.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

But well, worse it gets worse every time for me, it did. Yeah. So what um what do you think what do you think at the beginning scared you the most about getting sober and clean? Do you think there was anything that was kind of holding you back?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Well, how how do I function? How do I how do I uh live? How do I continue to have fun? How do I entertain myself? How do I celebrate? How do I you know because people tell you when you first come in, avoid this, avoid that, don't do this, don't do that, and I'm avoiding everything, and I felt sorry for my wife. Because again, when I first came in, I did not think I had a drink problem, I thought just the substance that I had the problem with, just that one you know, complete abstinence to me was an alien thing. Yeah, and once I once I realized that I've had a lot of experience with I'm not gonna take it tonight, but I'm just gonna have a few pints or whatever it may be, and every single time the same partner happens. So for me, it was a risk and award. So do I do I come in here and get clean, sober, find this new way of beautiful way of life, and risk that new way of life by having a bottle of beer? Or do I just not take the risk? Because the risk is that high and the reward is that little. What's the point? What is the point? You know, and it took me a little while to be able to be okay with not having a drink and and and not and being in situations because you know, trying to avoid alcohol altogether and in in society nowadays is is it's almost impossible.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

You can, it's everywhere, it's around you all the time, it's in the supermarket, it's uh on TV, it's on billboards, uh people are posting every day about the mother's day. Mentally mentally here we go. Like the this for our long-suffering mothers that have put up with us for so many years, buy them a bottle of poison.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

It's crazy. Uh so it took them a minute to get into it, get realize that. And you know, my my my wife fell pregnant with my third child very early on when I was in recovery. I was like three months in, and she fell pregnant. And uh some some people call her the recovery baby, you know. She'll be three tomorrow. And uh I was struggling with finding any purpose. I was struggling with people talked about the gift of recovery. And I was like, what fucking gift? I'm skint, I'm in pounds of debt, my wife doesn't trust me, my parents still won't give my key to their house, and and and and my whole life's blown up. I've got I had a I had car in myopathy and my heart, my half and heart was deflated because of it, and and and all this happened because it you know, and I still had skeletons in the closet because people were still gunning out gunning for me for whatever reasons, whether it was money or I'd fucked them over. Um, so I was struggling to find the beauty in it. And probably about five, six months clean. And uh my my oldest daughter Ari, I used to get my wife to take her to bed all the time. Tell this story all the time, because it is the point in my my new way of life when I was had an epiphany, and I was like, This is what it's all about. And what you always asked for my wife to take her to bed, always mummy. And one night she asked, Daddy, can you take me to bed and read my story? Okay. So I picked it up and trying to hold it together, walking up the stairs with her. So I got into her bed, I'm reading her a bedtime story, and she fell asleep and I was stroking her hair until I told her how much I love her, have a nice sweet dreams and stuff. And I sat there for about 20 minutes just staring at her, thinking, This is it. This this is what I'm doing this for. This is this is the gifts. This is why life can be so beautiful. You know, I missed all that. I missed a lot of time with my children when they were young, young, because I was out, and or even if I was there, I wasn't there. I miss a lot of things because of it, and I'm trying to make up for it, and I am making up for it.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

And you've got your youngest that you are getting those those times again. Do you know what I mean? You've got the other ones that are going through their their older years and that, but you've got this the you know, the new child that's that you can do the younger things with again. It is as you say, it's the gifts of sobriety.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

It really is, and the gifts just keep coming. I thought I'd have loads of money, a big house, massive car. I can tell you I'm so fucking skinned, but I am rich, you know. I'm so rich. I've got people in my life now that that genuinely care for my love. My relationship with my wife is better than it was when we first met. We're like we're like teenagers, you know. We're we're so in love, it's it's almost disgusting. You know, I'm not even with that much because you're gonna puke if I tell you anymore.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Because it's pure it's pure love, and this is the thing, like you know, I met I met Jen, who's who's now my mate, my wife. We got married last year, and I met her. I think I was just coming up in my third year, and you know what, like I'd done a bit of dating before, but I wasn't in the right space, the headspace and all that. When I met Jen, we were both in the right space, and it just it just clicked, and it is it's like the most pure love ever. I'll give you an example. They were driving, she was driving home from work the other day, and she had her eldest and the herdest daughter in the in the car in the backseat. And you know, I'm always a bit lovey-dovey in front of the kids because I think it's good behavior for them to learn, it's nice for them to see that we are so in love. And I started saying to her, like, oh, you look amazing today, darling, or whatever, something like that. And and and her daughter was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, enough out of all the smoochy stuff because I've got my friend sat next to me, and I said, It doesn't matter, she's gonna love hearing that. And actually, she was like, Yeah, she was like, I love seeing two people like two old people in love. Two old people in love. I know, I know this is what it's all about, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

You know, and and she's she's been with me all the way through this, yeah, through the back. And and you know, she tells me all the time, you know, so many times she wanted to leave. And she did leave me at one point, you know. I she she left the kids and went to her mum's and and and stayed there for weeks and weeks and weeks, and and and all this time she was everybody, everything when I was screaming to go and leave. Something keeping me. I knew deep down inside of you there was this good guy, there was this amazing, kind person that I loved that I fell in love with. And I live often because of it. Now, it's never it's not been easy because when I came into recovery, I I used to have night terrors a lot. Uh I used to wake up screaming and crying in the middle of the night, and my wife hold me like a baby and hold me in her arms and tell me it's okay, you're okay, you're safe, you're safe. I would I would I would have these episodes maybe once a week every all the time. And uh we were in Rome for my wife started first, I took her to Rome. I was uh I was how clean then, probably about two years clean at this point, and or yeah, about two years clean at this point. And uh we went to Rome and what a beautiful time I had. Um we're like three, four days in, and I had probably the worst episode I'd ever had. Right. Woke up in the middle of the night screaming, screaming and crying. And I thought to myself, I I can't carry on like this. This is this is beyond scary for me and for her because she got depth by watching me do it. She was there every night, every time she'd wake up and she console me. But it would ruin my whole day, it would stick with the whole day afterwards. So I went to the people that I thought might have experienced with it, and their guidance, we'll call it, was uh it's uh your addiction trying to get you while you're sleeping because it can't get you when you're awake. And I was like, Wow, that's not good enough, that's not good enough for me. I I can I can't I can't allow that to be the answer. And it wasn't until I started my journey on social media that I was sharing it with a guy, um the dealer on podcast, you know him, Lee?

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

He's a good friend of mine. Uh through he's gone through similar things and uh PTSD. That's what it came down to. And I worked through it in a in a professional manner, and they're gone, completely gone. I don't have these dreams anymore. And so that was the clicking point for me where I thought this is more than what meets the eye, more than what I think it is. You know, it's so much science behind it, there's so much uh faith behind it, there's so many different avenues to go to go through. For me, recovery is like a cube. And uh, I'm stealing a guy John's uh metaphor here. He said recovery is like so you're in the middle, and all these different things come from each side, all the different sides, whether it be the science part of it, the faith part of it, the fellowship part of it, the love, the the the connection, all these different things. Without them all, it doesn't make up the cube, you know. And and I needed the whole thing to be there with one bit for me, which was the psychological part that was missing, and I still felt what am I doing, how am I doing this? And and it clicked me one day, and then I started this journey on here, and uh it it really has I've met some amazing people and amazing things, and we've got some amazing things lined up. We've got uh the I Am Movement thing in in April and I've got the Better Together Bowl November that we're organizing, and I I feel better when I'm giving back something, you know. I don't want any money from anybody, no. I I will I will I will turn in my grave before I before I charge somebody to get them clean and like that because I'm not the answer. I uh I can't do it for anybody, you know. This is what frustrates me sometimes, and this is why I wouldn't promote myself as uh an addiction expert or professional.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

This is the thing, Mikey, and it annoys me because like I as soon as when I my first couple of years or whatever, I was seeing people that were had less time than me, and they were they were going and they were getting qualifications or whatever and all that, and I just thought, you're not ready, like it doesn't matter if you get a bit of paper saying that you're a sober coach or this, that, and the other, you're still so early days. Like, I still think of myself, I'm five and a half years now, I still think of myself as early days. Now, my our our um uh addiction charity over here called Motivate, which helped me, and that's where my NA was, my smart meetings were through, and all of that. And I was asked the first year that they set up the peer mentoring program, and they asked me if I wanted to be on it, and I said, listen, and I think I was about two and a half years sober at that point, and I said, No, I'm not I'm not ready myself, so I'm not gonna do that. And they were like, Okay, fair enough. I think their parameters were you had to be either six months or eight or eighteen months or something, something like that, anyway. But and it's I was over that, but I just said no, I'm not ready. Um, and then when it came up the second time round, I would have been four years at that point, and I said, Yeah, yeah, I'll do it. So I'm not getting paid an absolute fortune for it, I really not. I do it, I do it once every two weeks for an hour, so it's it's it cuts into my own job to do it, but I love doing it, and I go in and I do work with with with you know people and I'm being peer mentor, and now I'm starting to do some training for sober coaching. But this has taken me five and a half years to get to that point. Do you know what I mean? Because everything up until then.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

I see I'll go on social media where people are. I mean, I I know I know I I I I see somebody on social media that I think he was two months clean and he had four sponsees, yeah and and and he's and he's promoting himself as an addiction mentor and stuff like that. And I'm like, and I got asked as well. I when I first started on social media, I was on for a couple of months, and somebody asked me if I wanted to join there I can't remember how they worded it. And I'd be paying per month, uh, depending on how many people I got in, and we get people clean and sober, and I'm like, that's a rough thing to do. You know, like I can't like I've all I always say to people, I can't do this for you. Nobody all can do it for you. You have to want to do it, have to want it, and sometimes unfortunately, it has to take everything from you, yeah. And and that's the that's that's the unfortunate thing. Now I'm learning more, I'm doing what you like you're saying, I'm I'm doing getting more qualifications, and sometimes I might go into something like that, but it definitely wouldn't be the way that they're saying it, you know. Like I believe on podcasts, he he he he is doing he's doing that, he's got a lot of qualifications, he's a very intelligent man. Yeah, uh he isn't he isn't getting people in by saying, I will get you clean, I will I will get you sober. He's teaching people that giving people purpose and identity and trying to find themselves and and find what they who they are, you know, and that's great. That that's that's what we're after.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

That's kind of people it's when people start saying, and I see these adverts and posts and boosted posts and all that, and they're saying, I will guarantee you sobriety or clean time in three months, and I'm like, there is no absolute effing way that you can do that within three. You can't even guarantee anyone that you're gonna get them sober ever. It's up to them whether they do it. You can give them the suggestions and the help and the tools and all that, but you can no guarantee, there's never a guarantee in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

And it's it's anybody asks me, I tell them how what I've done. You know, and and and I uh when I first came in, I used to want it for people more than I want more than they wanted it, and uh rob me a piece. And it's took me a long time to learn that really learn that I can't do it for them. So now I will tell people if they ask me, well, how did you do it? How did you and I'll tell exactly what I'd done. But you know, for me, you know, if if you want if you want what they have, do what they've done, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

But for me, it's I think it's different for everyone because I you know I went to NA, I went to C A, I went to AA, I did smart, I did a bit of everything. Do you know what I mean? So it wasn't just one program that got me sober and clean, it was a bit of everything. Whereas some people are like, I only do this, and this is what's got me sober, and other people are like, this is what I did. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, that's cool for you. But for me, it had to be a mixture of everything and it and it and it worked, you know, and that was that was the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

Whereas that's one thing I I see a lot, especially with 12 step fellowships, you know. Um they bash other ways. They bash people, people, some people in 12 step fellowships will bash another how they do it, and and it and it really grinds my gears. I don't care how you've done it. I don't care if you went to church, I don't care if you've done it with a college, 12 steps program. Um, I don't even care if you've done it complete self-will. If you've done it, fantastic. If you're happy and you've got a way of life that you're proud of and you're at peace, fantastic. I don't care how you've done it. If you've done it, great. You know, and and I'm happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

Nobody's addiction's the same. Nobody's addiction is the same. So the road to recovery's got to be different as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

We're all we're all we're all different, you know, and and that that's that's where I kind of disagree with some things, you know. They they they would turn their nose up at certain fellowships or turn their nose up at smart recovery or whatever it may be. And I'm like, well, hold on. It's helping a lot of people, so so why why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

You know? We're all in the same boat, and all the and the end goal is to get sober and clean, so why bash other stuff that's that's helping someone? It's it doesn't it it baffles me, do you know what I mean? It really baffles me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

And that's the main reason why I don't promote any particular way, yeah, um on any social platforms because I know that there is multiple different ways to do it. And each is completely different. Completely my journey and your journey will be completely different. You know, the end goal in our uh active addiction, we'll call it we both got to the same ends. Yeah. On our knees, we're fucked. Yeah. Once we found our new way of life, you know, we we go down different roads and we find different ways, and we and and we're always evolving and changing and growing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

And that's why I think this advent of and I know it's been going for years, the the the sober community on on Instagram, but it's grown so long in the five years that I've been sober and all that, and that's what I love because it's like, do you know what? I'll be like, oh my god, and I'll be like, Mikey, do you know what? Like, I I did this and it really worked for me. So I'm gonna do a post on that and see if it helps other people. And if they want to ignore it, that's fine, but if it helps them, then that's even better. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's the whole thing with the community. We've got all these different ideas coming from different like-minded people saying, I've done this and this really worked for me. So here you go, have the keys to the kingdom. Do you know what I mean? So tell us tell us a little bit about um sorry, but I no, no, go on, go on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Oh, carry on, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

I was just gonna say, tell us a little bit about your ball and the I Am programme that you're that you're you're involved in.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Okay, yeah. So the the I am movement, we uh myself and a few other guys that are on social media, if you want to see them, just you'll find them on my Instagram page.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Uh I'll put them in the show notes of the podcast anyway, so we'll we'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Yeah, uh we we start a movement to show the power of the word I am and uh to give people a better understanding of what they are and how they talk about themselves matters, you know. Like what we were talking about earlier, carrying these labels around with you and and and labelling yourself with all these different identities and whatever it may be doesn't help, you know. So we're trying to find a good way to find give people a bit of structure, a bit of identity, passion, and purpose in their life. Uh, we are no ways a program for people to come in and get clean and sober. That's not what we're that's not the what we're after. We're after the bit after the bit that I struggled with. When I got clean, I had no idea who I was, I had no idea what I was, what I wanted, I had no purpose in my life. Uh and I and I and I found it through a long haul of different things, but that's what we're trying to promote, that's what we're trying to do for other people. And uh the good thing is about us all, we are all coming, like I was talking about that cube earlier, all coming from different angles, all of us. You know, we've got a guy that's very heavily got a lot of psychology background, and he and he is a psychologist at a job, and he's a very intelligent man, he's gone from one direction. We've got one guy that's a vet that um you know that was in the army, he's going from another direction. Another guy, me, Lee, we've got all different directions of how we're dealing with this and doing it. So we've got an event on the 4th of April, um it's uh down south in Wales, just uh it's about a 40-minute drive from Liverpool and Manchester. Uh the link is in my bio if you if you do want to have check it out. And uh we also have the charity ball in the year called The Better to Get Ball on the 7th of November. Now I started this ball with a friend called Chasen. We done that Ben Nevis last year and we raised£10,000 for Scottish Action for Mental Health, which helps with suicide and awareness for mental health and prevention for suicide and making taking the stigma of the word suicide. Yeah, because we use the word suicide to go. Oh, absolutely. Even on social media, a lot of social media platforms will block the word, you know. It's an important word. Uh we started this because on um in 2024, 18th of December 2024, Jason's brother, which is my best friend, he he killed himself on the 18th of December uh 2024. And uh was the red, you know, we went out in his house and we found him. I will never ever forget the screams that came out of his sisters and his mum's mouth. Um it haunts me to this day. And that's when we decided we need to do something, you know. I can't I can stand by and watch all these people take their own lives. And I know I know men are the majority of people that take their own lives, but we're we're we're doing it for everybody, you know. Three-quarters of a million people last year killed themselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

And one of the highest, if not the highest um cause of death between I think there's like a young, like between 20s and 30s for men, 20s and 40s for men in the UK. It's not one of the highest forms of death, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

It's insane, it really is. We have decided that we're gonna we're gonna put this ball on, uh, which is the 7th of November this year. Uh we're on auction, raffle, we've got a band coming to play. We're actually away to try and corner Amelia Sande to try and come and play for us as well. Uh I know, I know. Uh the tickets are on event bright under the better to get the ball. So we've done it because we're passionate about it and it's and it's hit right home for us. I've lost so many people to suicide. You know, I've been in recovery now and been completely abstinent for nearly four years, and I've buried I don't know how many people have killed themselves. Because in my experience, yes, a lot of people die from overdoses a lot. Most of them take their own life. Most of them. Most of the people that I've lost have taken their own lives because they can't cope with it anymore. And by the way, Blaine was clean and sober 54 days when he took his own life. So it's not just about abstinence, it's really about looking after yourself and walking.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:31

Without a doubt, because it's that it's about those finding that like who you are in sobriety. You know, once you've got sober and clean, it doesn't mean that you're fixed. Do you know what I mean? You've still got to do all that work and and work out what is the best route of life for you. And if you haven't done that, you're still feeling all that pain and anguish.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

You know, anybody anybody that watches my videos will notice I wear I I wear a chain. I don't you don't always say it's normally tucked in my t-shirt, but two things in my chain. And the first one is a cross that my wife bought me um when I was about 90 days clean. Uh you know, God's a big part of my journey. And uh and uh I don't preach, I don't I don't I don't do anything like that, but uh God's a big part of my journey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other one is this. So Blaine's family, when he was cremated, they put some of his ashes in here. Uh and this is Blaine in here, so I carry him with me everywhere I go.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

And it's uh That's a beautiful thing, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

A reminder of why I do it. Yeah. Um and and I keep him with me everywhere. Uh and that this is this is part of the reason. Oh, which sorry, this is the reason why I came on social media. I came on social media start of January 2025, well, middle of January, just after we'd buried him. Me and his brother Carter's coughing down the down, and uh I just thought, I'm uh, I want to do something. Yeah. Start the social media journey. And you know, social media for me has been ups and downs, mostly mostly up. So, you know, I know social media can be a really dark and horrible place for some people, but it can be used for so much good. Really can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

Taking the word out of my mouth, Mikey, because that's what I said at the beginning. I used to get lost in social media when I was in it, and I was just like, I'd be putting these rants on and this and that. But when I got sober and clean and I started my own account, I was like, oh my god, like there's not I've not really touched wood, not really come across absolutely any toxicity in the sober community. I know it's out there and I've I've stumbled across it a couple of times, maybe on Facebook, but the majority of it's just love, hope, and just trying to help people, you know. That's what it's about.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

I do not I do not engage with uh anybody that has anything negative to say, anybody comment like that. I do not engage with it. Yeah, they get blown a bit away, and that's it. Because I'm not I'm not here to argue people, uh, I'm not here to start a silly, a silly social media war with somebody, you know. Exactly. But that that is not to say, you know, there's a guy on uh one of the social media platforms that kept no comment on my stuff about and disagreeing with things, and I thought, you know what? Why don't we have a conversation? Why don't we go do a live mate? Come on, come up and we can have a conversation. And and I'm ready, I was ready for him. I was like, that's it, he's he's getting it. You know, I'm gonna hit him with facts and this and that. And we got chatting, and what a great guy. Yeah, what if it's that he just had a different outlook to me? I was so close-minded to the way I was doing it, and and I was listening to him, and I was like, You make you actually make a lot of sense, mate. And and he's a good friend of mine now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

And because the thing is, Mikey, we're all learning as well. The thing is, I will in no way, shape, or form ever say that I'm an expert on you know, addiction and recovery and sobriety and clean type, any of that. I'm not an expert, of course I'm not. I'm just doing what I know and I'm learning all the time as I go. They're finding out the science behind it, they're finding out stuff all the time in the day-to-day basis. So, whatever we believe now, you know, in a year's time might be different. We'll be like, all right, okay, we've got to be open-minded, you know, because we were closed off in addiction, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

I I thought I was open-minded, and then but in all reality, I was quite closed-minded. And some open-mind, real open-minded people to show me how closed-minded I was. And now I'm really open-minded, you know. I'm I'm I'm open to hear other people's ways. I'm open and I and I almost enjoy when people debate with me. Yeah, when people dis I love it, I love it. Like perfectly have a conversation around it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

Especially now we have clarity of mind and we're able to have a debate rather than some drunken argument down the pub, which is what I was, you know, I was great at but I wasn't great at doing it. I was known for doing it. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't very good at it because I'd always lose because I would but I was always like, no, I'm fucking right, I know what I'm saying, and it's it's this and it's that. Um, Mikey, what surprised you most about sober life? Clean life?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Uh what surprised me most how beautiful it is. Yeah, yeah. How beautiful it really can be if you let it can be really hard if you if you want it to be. You know, it's it's like the story of the two wolves. You know, if which wolf which wolf survives, the negative one or the positive one, whichever one you feed. You know, if you look for the shit all the time, you're gonna find the shit. Yeah, but look for the positives, you know. I away gratitude, gratitude's key. I I think I think I think it's like a superpower for us because we don't care for how bad it can be, so we're grateful for how good it can be now and how it is. We're grateful for the things that most people overlook.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

Yeah, take it for granted. Yeah. I I think the beauty in it. It's like being playing off air, like you know, it's like that whole you know, I always liked liking it to um having the having the blue or the red pill in the matrix and being able to see for what it all is now, and it's like you just kind of scream at people and say, Your life can be so much better without that, but they've got to make that choice, they've got to take that pill themselves, and you know, you can't you can't force it down the neck. I've I've got one percent of my phone. Right. Um let's go for the quick fire round at the end, mate. Um one piece of advice that you can give someone at day one take it one day at a time.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:20

All you've got to do is get your head in a pillow tonight without doing it. Yeah, don't think about tomorrow, don't think about yesterday, what about today?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:28

Yeah. Uh a podcast sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

As in just stay present.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

Um a podcast film or a book about recovery or hope. Alright, which one? Yeah, yeah. Any any that you've used, whether it be a podcast, a book, or a film that's helped you with recovery and hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

Um I quite enjoy the Sea Run podcast. Uh helped me quite a lot with listening to that. Uh film-wise, uh, A Star is Born.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

Oh, brilliant one. The new one with um Bradley Cooper and and and Lady Gaga. Yeah, yeah, I love that one. It's a great film.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

Uh a book is uh The Ralm of Ghosts. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That that is that's a that's a fantastic book for anyone to read. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

And one word that describes your life now, Mikey. Purposeful. Like it, like it. Yeah, yeah, that's great, mate. Well, thank you so much, Mikey. It's been an amazing like hour and a bit, trying to, you know, not trying to, but getting to know you and and you know, learn your story and and getting to know you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:41

I really appreciate coming on, and I really appreciate the opportunity for us to have a chat. It's been it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

Well, just keep doing what you're doing, mate. We appreciate your your your journey and your your sobriety and your clean time, so yeah, thank you. Likewise, likewise to you, mate. You know, I uh I love what you're doing. Thank you so much, Mikey, for you know, coming on and bearing your soul, you know. I think like that's the kind of you know it's it's it's a difficult subject matter, suicide, you know, as you said in the episode, you know, things like Facebook and Instagram kind of block it um on the the the talking points, um so it is something that needs to be spoken about, um, but I think it is obviously a difficult thing and you know for you to go through that and then you know to come on and talk about it is just so uh commendable. Um and I think my take from this episode is the fact that people automatically think of addicts as genuinely bad people, but you know, we're not, Mikey's not, I'm not. Um we didn't want this life, you know. We we we kind of didn't set out when we were 12, 13, 14 um to become alcoholics or addicts. And I just think spoken about it a lot this week in the on the on the Instagram that you know we didn't want to be this way, and none of us wanted to kind of look oh when I'm 40, I want to be an addict or or whatever. So I think people that are drinking um and using the rolling that dice, it doesn't matter. People go, oh well, they're taking drugs, they're already on that path. Drugs and alcohol are exactly the same thing, it shouldn't be drugs and alcohol. Alcohol's a drug, so if you're doing any of that, you're you're rolling that dice, you're playing a risky game, um, you know, and it's it's I'm not saying it's inevitable, but you're a couple of bad um traumatic experiences, and then using those as a tool away from becoming dependent on it, and that's that's the scary part of this this this whole um debacle of addiction that it's there just waiting round the corner for everyone. Um and I don't care, people go, Oh yeah, there's no way that would happen to me. I did not think it would happen to me, and I'm sure Mikey didn't think it would happen to him. So if you are if you're struggling or you know anyone that's struggling, please don't turn your back on them and and show them a bit of love, you know, like the police officer uh did did for for Mikey. You know, it it might, in fact, I know that it will make all the difference to them if they're struggling. Just show them a bit of love, show them the support that you've got them, that you've got their back, and that they're not alone. That's all that's all we need to do, and then we can start helping them rebuild and they need to do the work. But you know, just showing that little bit of love and support at the beginning is just the most important thing. Um and I think the other thing, the other take from this is that you know, just being but being honest, um, that's all we can do. Honest with our friends, honest with our with our loved ones, um, and we can make it out of this, you know. I did, Mikey did, um, and there's there's thousands, if not millions, out there that aren't being honest with their their their habits, their addiction, they're not being honest to their friends and family. And I think if they start being honest and just saying, listen, yep, hold my hands up, I've got a problem. Um things things will change, you know, and that's that's kind of where we're at with this. So that's the the main takes from from today's episode. Thank you again, Mikey. Um, just an absolute pleasure to to speak to you and hear your honest and and and brutal um story. So thank you. Um I know it wasn't easy at certain points, but um I hope everyone else is is kind of taking a bit from it. Um hit the subscribe button, the like, the share, share all of my reels, you know, just get the message out there, guys, because I'm really trying to trying to uh uh raise awareness of of how alcohol and you know drugs as well, but you know, alcohol especially with me isn't doing anyone any favours. And I think that's that's kind of really where we we need to be at as a society because there is no safe level of drinking alcohol. That that whole bollocks about it going nice with a with a steak or or some fish, and that you know, the antioxidants in the in the wine all sort out your heart and things like that. It's not about the alcohol, it's about the fruits and the wines that that that thing is made from. Take out the alcohol because the alcohol is the one that's doing you damage. So just have a really good fruit joke fruit juice, and you'll get the antioxidants out of that. So stop believing the myths, guys. Um like subscribe, like, subscribe, share, uh, hit the five-star review or the one if you're if you're not happy with it, and let me know why. And uh yeah, until next week, guys, stay safe, stay sober, and stay supportive. Peace. Love y'all.