Episode 64 - Dawn

“Retired party animal. Professional life-changer.”

My name is Dawn, although these days, many people know me as ‘Sober Fish’.

For most of my adult life, I lived the party lifestyle. On the outside it looked fun, but behind the scenes it was sleepless nights, extreme emotions, toxic relationshits, two-day hangovers and a growing sense that something wasn’t right.

By 2016, I was overweight, my eczema was out of control, and I felt stuck in a loop that was slowly draining the joy out of my life.

Something HAD to change so I decided to do a personal experiment: one whole year without alcohol or cigarettes, and I’d document the journey publicly on social media.

I drank my last alcoholic drink on 27 November 2016, fully expecting to return to my old lifestyle once the year was up.

But something unexpected happened.

That experiment didn’t just change my habits — it actually changed my life! What began as a one-year challenge became a completely new way of living, and I’ve remained alcohol and smoke free ever since.

Today, I support others who feel stuck in the same cycle I once did through coaching, mentoring and my private community, helping them change their relationship with alcohol and build a life they no longer feel the need to escape from. 

🐟

Catch Dawn on Instagram at:

https://www.instagram.com/soberfishie?igsh=ZjVwbjJqaDJmczR3

or on Facebook at:

https://www.facebook.com/share/18vvijBris/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Dawn's Linktree:

https://linktr.ee/Soberfish?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAdGRleAQqhjhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAadjo2U7bFrRAONzzbycrGG000G7TntaAHX6KJAa7Y141EdsrbGnDAFn3jmhLw_aem_NIEBd5DpI53j1Sa6L4HNPQ

Alcohol Explained - William Porter
https://amzn.eu/d/01rqPozm

Glorious Rock Bottom - Bryony Gordon
https://amzn.eu/d/014kt028

Rain in my Heart Documentary - BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00793zq/rain-in-my-heart

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to After Hours with me, Jimmy Thistle. Tonight, today it is night now. I'm down in the living room doing a little bit of editing and recording this. Today we've got Dawn Soberfish on Facebook and Instagram. She's got an amazing account, and I actually first found her on Facebook, which is a bit you know unusual these days. It's normally mostly on the old Instagram. So it'd be lovely to kind of find her account on Facebook and just see how massive it was. Dawn is an absolute pioneer. She's been sober since 2016. And through herself and you know the club soda guys and gals, um they were the they were like the first kind of you know, people of the online sobriety community doing their thing, uh, you know, just getting people involved, and it's just been an amazing tour de force. So, you know, we all we all really have all the people in the online community have have kind of Dawn and those those pioneers to to kind of thank for. Um Dawn had, you know, you know, a kind of normal-ish childhood growing up. Uh she moved about a bit, but I Dawn, you know, started drinking kind of teen years, the usual, um, and just became a bit of a party girl and just enjoyed the boozing. Um, you know, had jobs and and and could fund it, but she had people that were were kind of not helping her out, that's the wrong word, but like, you know, they were they were do they were doing, you know, maybe a bit more better financially than her, so you know, they would just uh be very generous with the with the money and she could just party. And as Don says, you know, she never got married, uh, didn't have kids, so when other people were kind of settling down, she was kind of thinking, Ah, you know, it's not happening to me, which would then kind of compound the boozing, and it just kind of you know, as she said, she was kind of thinking it's not happening for me, but actually she was kind of you know scaring people away because she was just this kind of party girl and uh just boozing all the time. So yeah, um great episode. Love chatting with Dawn and just finding out about Soberfish, her her account, and uh you know, just her story. So uh, you know, a bit of bad language, uh the usual, uh some trigger warnings because obviously there's talking about alcohol and stuff. So um yeah, take care when listening, but listen for the similarities, guys, and not the differences. See you at the end.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

I'm good, thank you. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Like we were chatting off air, and you're like, you you look like you're freezing, you look like you're absolutely roasted. So tell the tell the listeners where you are, Dawn.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I'm currently in Copenyang in Thailand. Copenhagen and I'm out here for the foreseeable future, let's say. I haven't got a return ticket at the moment. So um, yeah, I just I did it last year for three months and it worked really well. I'm working from here. Um and yeah, so I'm just seeing when I get sick of the sunshine.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Have you got well? I mean, when does that happen? Have you got like a little apartment there or are you staying in like kind of uh like holiday accommodation? How does it work?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

No, so I've just um I was in Thailand before Christmas for two and a half weeks in hotel accommodation, yeah. Um, but I booked all of this a long time ago, so I got quite good rates if you book quite far in advance. Then I went to Cambodia for a month, which was traveling. That was like my holiday because I've never been to Cambodia before and I was travelling, and then this place, my parents are actually here as well, and it's really reasonably priced and it's dead on like it's on the beach, and yeah, it's just it it it's a it's a nice place to stay for a reasonable amount, but yeah, I don't have a kitchen. That's the only thing that kind of sends you home, is because if you don't have cooking facilities, you get I know it sounds like first world problems, but you're just like you start craving really plain food, like making a salad or a bagel or something, you know, something really simple that you could just make yourself.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

You don't have to go out for, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

And I know, I mean, that like I was in Thailand, what 14, 13, 14 years ago, but I assume it's still fairly cheap for most things, you know, because it was just ridiculously cheap for I mean, it's it's more expensive, definitely noticeable this year, definitely noticeable last year, but still, you know, you're not spending ridiculous amounts of money in Tesco's, so it's still uh a cheaper way of living, even when you've factored in the accommodation.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

So yeah, and Copanyang, I'm trying to remember because we we went to a few different places, we stayed. Where's the James Bond?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Is that Coast Marie?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, Coast Marie, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, so that's the neighbouring island, so you have to bounce onto there to come over here. So I I flew from Cambodia to Bangkok, Bangkok to Coast Marie, and then got the ferry over here.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Right, right. We then went to Kolanta and then we went to this amazing little place way down south called Kollipe, which is like it took it was like a four-hour speedboat journey to get there. Then it was it's like a mile across and like three miles wide, so it's it's it's tiny, and it was just like what you can imagine the beach was like back in the day, you know. Um, it was just like like pure white sand, all of that. And the the the councils around there were saying, right, we've got one more year in order to build, and then we're not gonna build anymore. But you could see it, they were literally building, building, building. Because we were staying in like kind of little beach huts and stuff, but there was resorts being built, and this thing was tiny. Do you know what I mean? And it gets cut off for like the monsoon season. So I would hate to go back and see it completely ravaged by you know, you know, kind of tourism and all that, but it was it was honestly it was paradise when we were there. So if you get a chance, go to Koh Lippi, it's probably quite a distance from you, which is way down south.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

But yeah, no, I've actually been uh I went for my 50th um to Koh Lippi. To Ko Lippi, yeah, yeah, and I got my tattoos in Koh Lippy as well. It's a very special place. I got my can you see my oh you can't see it. How do I get you to see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can my shell that there. And um wow, yeah, no, I absolutely it apart from this island, I love that island too. It's it's still beautiful then.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yeah, yeah, because as I say, it was like nearly 15 years ago, and it was just yeah, it was stunning. We had this place called the Family, I think. I don't know if they're still there, but they basically would go out the the father and son would go out during the day, catch whatever fish they caught, bring it in, lay it on the ice, and you could go up to it during the day and say, Right, I'll have that sword fish tonight, and then go away, do your thing, come back down the evening, and they would cook it on the grill for you. It was absolutely yeah, it was just it was just a you know a different way of living, but we loved it. We were there for about three weeks, I think. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Oh, wow, nice.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was and it was it was middle of winter because I was living in London at the time. So my partner at the time, she had to go and fly to India for work, so I flew home, and I was still like you know, like all in holiday mode, and then I had to get on the tube, and it was like just all these miserable commuters going to work. There was snow on the ground, and I was like, I was I mean, I think I was still drunk because I was drinking and then coming off the plane. Um, but yeah, it was it was good times, good times. Uh Don, well, thank you for for coming on today. Um, tell us a little bit about your childhood, where you grew up, and you know, when you had your first drink.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Oh, so it's a long time ago, Jimmy. It's a long time ago. I was born in London, North London. Um, and we moved to Poole in Dorset when I was 16. Um, because my uncle was living in Bournemouth and we were visiting, and my parents were just like, actually, London, you know, we kind of had it with that. Let's move to the beach. Um, so the beach has kind of always been in my blood, but on my sobriety journey, I have kind of realized that that move age 16 had a lot to do with my drinking. Uh, you know, moving to a new area, leaving everything that I knew behind, all those friends that you've like made since you were five in the school system, and kind of moving to a new area where everybody also had got those connections, you know, deep connections for years. And suddenly I'm there. Um, and you know, Pool is a beautiful place. Um, we're so lucky to live there, but for a long time I was like, I just want to go back to London, you know. I just you know felt really on edge. Uh, went to school, met who are still my friends now, ironically, um at the school there. So I kind of forged those friendships going forwards from 16, but it was a rocky few years trying to fit in, you know, and now when I work with people and you know, everybody's issues are trying to fit in, aren't they? Everybody's issues that want to be liked, and it just depends how deep-rooted that is. And mine was really deep-rooted because I spent years not feeling good enough, not feeling part of the in-crowd, always feeling on the periphery until I realized actually, you don't need to be in the in-crowd. Actually, being on the periphery is quite a nice place to be. Actually, if you take away all of that trying to be something and just be yourself, people naturally gravitate. So, but only took 50 years to work that out. Slowly done it.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

When you're a teenager, you you know the the anxiety you have, and you think, oh my god, they think I'm not wearing the right things, or my hair's the wrong, you know, colour or you know, style, or whatever. I'm not listening to the right music. How do I find my people? And actually, it's much easier than we think. Like you're saying, be yourself and you'll find your tribe. But you try and tell that to ourselves when we were that age, it's ridiculous, you know. And I like you, I moved, so we grew up in uh suburb of Glasgow, but I my my stepfather took my brother, me, my mum over to Greece for two years, so we moved to Greece, and it was like, and I just started high school, so although I had all my deep-rooted friends from primary, met all these amazing new people at high school, which seemed to be quite easy because obviously I had the same accent and all of that stuff. But then we moved to Greece and I just dug my heels in. I didn't want to be there, and I found it really difficult to make friends because I wasn't trying, you know, and then we came back, and then like you know, I was straight back into my old school, which again was that I'd been away for two years, so to then try and pick up where I left off was super difficult as well. You know, I still had my old friends and I'd kept in touch with them, but it was like suddenly I was new kid again, you know. So I did go through that like twice almost in in in a short space of time, but again, it's like tell the kid like you know, this is this is okay, this is kind of what you do, and actually I have moved around a lot because maybe I got that bug, and I do like moving around to different places, and I've got friends in in lots of different places, so it's you know, it's just it's just life, isn't it? But yeah, it is tough for for teenagers, so yeah. So, how did you think your drinking kind of started from there then?

SPEAKER_00 12:14

I think it's uh I mean, I probably I think I had my first drink around 14. I think I'd always been interested in it because my parents had a big social circle that revolved around alcohol. So my parents um would have dinner parties, you know, we'd go to the pub at the weekend, we you know, that it was quite in ingrained, and I I would kind of look at it thinking, oh, you know, I want to be part of that because I was always older than they're sophisticated, they're having fun, all of that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, but then looking back at it now, I've got a vision of being in pull, going to someone's house after the pub, back to an after party, um, and just kind of feeling that I I had to drink and I had to smoke in order to be part of this crowd. And that kind of is has really stuck, and I'm not blaming anybody else for it because uh, you know, you have your own choice, but I just remember thinking that there wasn't a lot of choice, that if I didn't do it, I would be on the edge. But also, I was probably quite an awkward teenager, as I think most teenagers are, you know, I wasn't confident in myself, I wasn't the prettiest girl in the room. You know, I I just I just wanted to be accepted, but also wanted to be part of this crowd that I'd met.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Um, and so fun with them as well, though. That's the thing, you want to have fun. So if you're like saying, Oh my gosh, I'm not old enough to drink, I'm gonna stand, I'm gonna go out with these people, but I'm not like, yeah, you're not gonna be fully accepted. And that is the sad kind of state of affairs. I think it might be getting better with the younger kids now, but in our day it was like, yeah, you know, you if you didn't drink, yeah, there was the the kind of geeks or whatever, in my opinion, that they were off doing their their chess club and all that. They weren't, you know. I mean, they were probably doing some really cool things like going hiking and all that. I wasn't interested in that, I was interested in hanging out with you know, people that were doing rock and roll things, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

It's uh so yeah, so so you're right, you that was from about 14 up to 16 when you moved to Pool, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, moved um, and then so 16 to 18, I did A levels, meeting these new friends. We were pretty wild, moved in with my best friend, probably early 20s, and I always remember thinking, I want a fridge with a bottle of wine in so that when I get home from work, I'm gonna have a glass of wine. Yeah, and I don't think a bottle of wine ever stayed in the fridge long enough to have a second glass the day afterward. You know, it was like a bottle of wine a day.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, you're thinking it was just there as this kind of what what's the word, like sophistication. Yes, you're an adult now, you can just go like we see it in the movies, don't we? Like the men with their their whiskey decanters and all that, and the the wine in the fridge, and you pour a glass. Yeah, if you're like me, you're not having a glass, you're just like you're having the bottle. So yeah, exactly. It's weird that we think of that that almost like transitioning to adulthood, you know, that rites of passage that we've got this fridge, not thinking about all the nice food we can have in that fridge. You're thinking of I want a fridge for a bottle of wine. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

We used to have a wine rack as well, and it never had any wine in it, you know, one of those ones that slipped in the the fitted kitchen, yeah. It just took up that bit of space, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Just with the little squares for the bottles. Yeah, I mean, I think we had one in one of our flats, and I think well, I think it had bottles of vodka in it as well and stuff like that, you know. But it was it was whatever was in there, it wasn't a full wine rack of really nice wines, it was just that was a space to put something and then it would get ranked. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Um and so we then were it was around the time of prinks, you know, pre-drinking to save money before you went out.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

And I think we call it that though, then Dawn. I don't think we called it, I don't think we called it prinks. I think that's the new thing. We just we yeah, we we didn't have a name for it. Yeah, prinks, they come up with all these names now, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 16:30

And I think looking back at that, that caused a problem because we used to be so drunk before we went out, like before we'd left the house, we'd be like literally falling all over the place. And you know, I I remember one time, you know, one of my friends coming out, we were all sat in the cab, and one of my friends cut she's sober now, she's been sober a really long time, longer than me. But she came out of the door and literally fell into the bush by the side of the door, you know, when we hadn't even we hadn't even gone anywhere. Yeah, um, and then going out, you know, there was always shots. And I don't know if you remember as well, when they had a new drink come out, like they'd have like a pretty girl go round the club and give out a bottle. Like, uh do you remember?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Well, it was like they it was like the Red Bull girls or whatever, because they would always bring you around vodka and Red Bull, and they were all like scantily clad or whatever, like biker checks or whatever, and yeah, they would come round, and I'd sometimes I think they'd be mostly giving you like free shots to to begin with, and then you would you would be like, Oh, that's really nice. I'll go up and they give you like 10% off. I don't know, yeah. There's all different deals, but I know what you mean. They don't do that anymore, do they?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Well, I don't think they'd get away with scantily clad girls like or giving out any kind of free freebies.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just it's just a different time. But I do know what that was probably I mean, I remember the last time I saw someone like that was in London, what would have been about 14-15 years ago. So it's not that long ago, but yeah, they were there was a big thing with especially Red Bull, and they wanted you to have the Red Bull so they give you Vaud Carbo Cardi with it, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, so I I remember that as well, and always doing shots, and then being like um with wine, couldn't be bothered to go to the bar. So I'd buy either a bottle of wine or a pint glass of wine, like or like wine and soda. I mean, oh god, even just saying it. And like in a really shitty club, having like that disgusting red-coloured rose with soda in a pint glass. You know, the so the signs, the signs were there, and I think in my 20s, we were all doing it, so it was a collective kind of you know, Friday night, have your drinks at somebody's house, go out, do all of this. But I was always the one that was sick, always the one who couldn't move the next day. Everybody else didn't claim to be fine, but they managed to continue. But it kind of always flawed me.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Do you think that you were, and I was talking about with someone the other the other day in the podcast about this? Do you think your friends were monitoring what they were drinking? Because I wasn't, I would just drink and drink and drink until I was a mess or the pub's shut. But I don't but thinking back, like I need to speak to some of my friends, where they going, Well, I'm only gonna have five pints tonight. Like they were getting drunk, don't get me wrong, but me, I had no off switch that was just I'm gonna keep drinking and drinking and drinking. But I think looking back, my friends probably were limiting themselves to a point. Do you know what I mean? But I certainly wasn't. Yours weren't, no, no, right.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

So and I think we had a couple of friends who were on good money. I did I wasn't on good money, like I you know, going out.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

What were you what were you doing work-wise at this point?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Or were you what was I doing then? I think I was working in a call centre, right? Um, but I had friends living in London. I I was living in Poole and had met them, but they had then moved to London like after university, so they were on quite good money. So if I had only had the money in my wallet, I probably would have gone home at like 10:30. But then those friends were really generous, you know, and they were like, No, you know, oh, we'll get the cab or we'll do you know, again, not blaming anyone, but it was kind of like you know, they had the facilities to keep going. Yeah, and it's funny because I've got quite a few sober friends now, done it off their own back, nothing to do with me. But as time has gone on, it's like you know, we kind of had our fun, right? You know, our fun is done.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Well, that's interesting because again, like I, you know, I as I say, I think looking back, they might have been monitoring their drinks, they might not have been, because the one thing I can't seem to work out is like we were all doing similar things, and it wasn't just alcohol, you know. And I'm thinking, how come I'm the only one that seems to have ended up, you know, as a sober person, and they all seem to be just kind of cracking on with life normally and still still drinking. Maybe they do have a problem, maybe they're maybe it's something they're hiding. I don't know, but it's but it's interesting, you know. Like, I seem to be out of that group of friends from like 14 up until our 20s when we all kind of dispersed. It seems to be me that's the one that had the the deepest problems.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Are they in Scotland though?

SPEAKER_02 21:25

The uh yes, the most of them are still in Scotland, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So Scotland it has always been a bit of a hard nut to crack. I went to um the Club Soda Festival, uh, I think it was like 2017, which was in Glasgow, and you know, really proud of my sobriety. And people in Glasgow were literally laughing. Like, why would anyone want to do that? And so when I get Scottish people like in my group now, I'm always like, you know, I'm really proud of them because I think it's I still think it's quite hard in Scotland. To go against the grain.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

I think it's I think even if they've got like a little bit like I know a guy who is I mean he's he's sober now, he's been sober, I think, nearly two years. And I went to school with him, and he goes to AA in Scotland, and he said it's absolutely horrible. He said it's so he said there's people outside trying to sell you stuff. He said, Oh, he said it's just and it's like there's so many dry drunks. There's a lot of sober people, but there's a lot of dry drunks just angry and just bitter and twisted. And he said they're huge meetings, and he said, like, I did it for a year, and then he was like, I'm not, I'm not doing that. So he's doing alright with his sobriety now. But he said it just sounds it just sounds horrible, you know, like really seedy and nasty. But again, like Glasgow had at one point, I think it's a lot better now, but at one point they had a lower life expectancy than some third world countries because of the diet, because of the alcohol, and because of the smoking. It's much better now, but it was definitely the worst city in Europe for um you know alcoholism and and and alcohol-related deaths. So yeah, because I had Darren McGarvey, I don't know if you know him, um, he's like a he's like a an author, poet, hip hop, rap artist in in from from Scotland, and it's just an amazing story. He's done a few BBC documentaries and and he was on talking about that, and it's just like it's better now, but like they got themselves so bad that yeah, so I get I guess I see what you're saying. It is a tough nut to crack. So maybe some of my friends do drink more than they should, and they just don't want to admit that you know that that that there is a better way of life, but who knows? So yeah, they'll be watching, they'll be watching hopefully, yeah, yeah. Well, that's it. That's the thing, you know, Dawn. I just want people to kind of recognise it before it gets as bad as kind of myself and you. Do you know what I mean? If they can say, well, what am I still getting from this? Am I getting anything from it? Like maybe I don't need to be doing a bottle of wine on a Tuesday night. Anyway, back to your story, Don. So you're you're uh you're you're going up to London, you've got your friends with you know deep pockets and things like that. Did you notice at that point? Did you think maybe I'm drinking too much, or it was just a lifestyle was like, I think I'd I think I'd always known.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I think I'd always, you know, in relationships, I was just a bit crazy, you know, flew off the handle very easily. Um I just I think the other problem, if you call it a problem, is that I didn't get married or have kids. So I think when people, when my friends were kind of getting pregnant or having a newborn baby to look after, or having a three-year-old that they've got to look after on a Sunday after a session, you know, it was a no from them. Whereas I never not only did I not have an off switch, but I also had nothing stopping me. And I think that was part of my problem, is that if I'd had my if I have my time again, I'd definitely give up before I was 30. Because I think 30 in my 30s, it was unnecessary, it was just like carnage for no apparent reason. Um, and I think it was a lot because I felt that I needed to get married and have children, and because it wasn't happening, it was making me drink more because I was felt I felt a failure because I wasn't meeting anyone. But actually, what was happening was I was just putting people off because I was just like all over the place. So I wish that I mean, I don't regret anything, but if I had my time again, I would be sober in my 30s rather than starting in my 40s. Well, I'd probably be sober from day dot to be fair, but um yeah, definitely I wish I'd done my 30s sober.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

I can totally relate to that, Don, because you know, I'm like like I mean, I got I got married last August, and that was the first time I've been married, no kids. You know, I'm stepfather to three amazing kids now, and it's and it's great, but like you, I was kind of always chasing that, I think, getting in the wrong type of relationships and probably pissing them off and then breaking up and all of that, and you know, not really but then also going, oh well, you know, I don't need to get up for the kids at the weekend, you know, because I've got this freedom, this is my kind of bachelor life, and and all of that. But I was in, you know, kind of consistent relationships, but the but the wrong ones, obviously. And I think I'm I remember I went back to uni at 32. Well, I I went to not been to uni before that. I did college for photography, then I went at 32 to do film studies, and I was like, right, by the time I'm 40 and I had all these aspirations that I wanted to be like a film director, then I changed it to be I wanted to be a writer, and then I want to have a book out and all. But but my 30s just kind of slowly well, quickly kind of faded into my 40s, and I and I got sober at 40. Do you know what I mean? But I didn't do any of the things that I'd set out to do in my 30s because I was drinking, you know, and I like I don't have any regrets. I'm not sad about that. I'm not sitting, you know, in a chair going, Oh my life. Do you know what I mean? Because my life is amazing now. But it's like all of those things that I set out to do, I probably could have done had I not been drinking, you know. Absolutely. I mean it takes away all your kind of aspirations, all your ambition, and it just like all I could see was, and obviously throughout my 30s, it was getting worse. Like what you're saying, 20s is a so you're wild decade, good crack on, do what you want, but then 30s is like knuckle down and make something with your life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

And I think as well, I was conscious that I didn't want to be this falling over being sick person for another decade, you know. And my brother's got two children who don't know me ever drinking, which I'm really proud of. You know, my my nephew was one when I gave up, and when by the time he was two or three, he knew that I drank sparkling water. You know, he'd be like, That's Auntie Dawny's drink. And I'm really proud of that. Because I I I I just had a vision of me like falling in the corner crying, and him being like, What's that all about? You know, it's like I I just don't want that to be.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Well, you don't want to be known as drunk Auntie Dawn, do you? Do you know what I mean? That's that's and again, it's the same similarities because my brother has got two, and I was drinking when Holly um was was very little. I shouldn't say names, I'll beep that out. But anyway, it was uh like I think I I was I wasn't like completely off the rails. Um and I think if I was looking after her, there was definitely I wasn't drinking, um, but you know, the majority of the time they were in the house. So I stayed with them for a while, but then when I moved back here and they'd had uh their my my nephew, I was like, right, this is it, do you know what I mean? Because I want to have a relationship with these kids, and at the moment I'm just pushing everyone away, so yeah, I didn't want to and yeah, and both of them they've never they've never known me to to be, you know, drinking like at Christmas times or anything like that. It's like you know, they haven't they haven't specifically said because they're still very young, um, but you know, as we get older, I'm sure they'll probably notice that that maybe I don't drink and that other people do. Um but yeah, it's it's it's uh it's just something that you know we we kids do pick up on it and like my stepkids, they've never and they will never see me, you know, being drunk and belligerent or you know, just just being a bit too excessive because you know that's not what what I am anymore. Um how did it how did it kind of then develop through your kind of 20s and 30s before it really kind of got to a crux, got to a head point?

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I was I was wasting time and conscious of that, um meeting the wrong people, you know, just it and it was just it you could feel that it was snowballing. I would have a weekend and be, let's say, bending the truth about what I was doing because I was anticipating the hangover. So I, you know, I wouldn't arrange to do anything on a Saturday night if I was out Friday, because I knew that I would just be absolutely flawed. Um so yeah, it it probably towards the end of my 30s and go well, actually saying that my 40th birthday, I had a vision of how I was going to look on my 40th birthday, where I was gonna be at, I failed on all of it. You know, I wanted to be a non-smoker, I wanted to be this was another reason why I stopped drinking was because I tried numerous times to stop smoking, and every single time I had a drink, I went back to it. So I'd also tried to lose weight from when I was 16 until I was 42 when I started doing this, and the only thing that has kept weight off is not drinking. You know, all for all of those years, I would celebrate a weight loss by getting a bottle of wine and a Chinese, which now you look at it, you're just like, what, what? Like you're paying five pounds a week for a person to tell you that you've lost half a pound and then you go and drink a bottle of wine and buy a Chinese, like time to eat and drink.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

So like this is this is what's putting it on in the first place, and then you're celebrating with like it's like it's like giving up smoking for a month and then having a 20-pack just to celebrate, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

It's just crazy. And so I it was one it was in the summer of 2016, weirdly, in my Facebook feed came up uh some before and after photos of people who'd stopped drinking, and I'd never googled anything to do with alcohol or sobriety. I didn't even know online sobriety things existed, and so it was really weird that it popped up. And ironically, there was another guy who I I knew all those years ago when I got sober who was inspired by the same article, and it's just and he said he'd never googled anything either. So it was like that's really weird, like how it just popped up. Anyway, I looked at these people and I was just like, wow, they look incredible. And then I was like, I wonder if if I obviously look like I drink, like it never occurred to me before whether I did or I didn't, but at that point I was so overweight. I mean, I've lost five, six stones since then, so I was massively overweight. I was smoking way too much and just getting sick of it. So I just thought, you know what? I'm gonna give myself the opportunity of the year, hopefully give up the cigarette. Um, had every intention of drinking again, but it was mainly for weight loss and to stop smoking. And I'm gonna put it on the internet again. Weird, because I don't really know why I thought that was such a great idea, but I just thought I was gonna be so bored that if I shared it with other people, like maybe it would lessen the load. That was really why I did it.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Um, I'd also what year was this? Uh 2016. 2016. So again, like still early, very early days for sobriety stuff on the internet, you know. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah, I mean there was nothing. There was nothing really.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

No. I mean that's and and sorry, going back, those are those pictures. I think I might have seen something similar. How long was it? So it was like a before and after picture. How long was the was the kind of time between stopping drinking and then after? Was it like three months or six months?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Or no a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

A year, right, sorry, yeah. So I I do think I'd seen them, and it was it's remarkable that the change in people, and like what you're saying, did I look like a drinker? I definitely look like a drinker, but I didn't see it until after I got sober. No, you know, and I look at people in the shop and I think, oh, right, yeah, you're definitely you know caning it hard, aren't you? You know, and it's weird that isn't it? It's like how we can tell once we're sober, but we can't see it when we're in it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah, definitely, yeah. I I feel like that. I will walk down the street and look at somebody and be like, Oh, you know, I can just tell when somebody is suffering, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not always the big purple nose, because you see that, you don't see it as much now. I think it's the eyes, it's the eyes, definitely, and just the complexion, and and it's like, yeah, it's uh it's crazy. So, what did you do? What how easy was it? Just um did you do it cold turkey or uh I actually got ill, um, which really helped me out.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

So I had decided I was gonna give up on the 1st of January 2017 for the calendar year. Um, and I went away with friends on a really boozy weekend, which we we did every year. Um, and one of my friends' husbands didn't come initially because he was really, really ill. And then he turned up, and then I ended up getting a lift home with him and caught whatever he had, which I mean, I think it was probably like COVID at the time. It was absolutely horrific. And it just flawed me. I couldn't, I couldn't speak, I couldn't hear, I couldn't, I definitely couldn't drink and I couldn't smoke, I couldn't go out, and it was like the end of November, so all the Christmas stuff was coming up, I couldn't do anything. I I it was it was really horrific, but actually it did me a massive favour because I I couldn't drink or smoke and had to stay in. And I felt better about mid-December, and then I was like, right, what do I do? Do I get back on it for Christmas or do I just carry on where I'm at? Because I've got a really good head start here, and I was like, I'll be a bit stupid to go back, so I just decided to carry on. Which by the time I got to Christmas, so I was like five weeks sober, I started thinking, oh my god, what have I done? Because I I then put it out there in the world, this is what I'm doing, and so I'd told all my friends, told my family, and then you get to Christmas, and you're just like, Oh my god, I've made a massive mistake. And then I got to dry January, and I was thinking, I've made a massive mistake because I just bought a drink and I've and I've still got a year to go, like what a stupid idea.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

But and plus you didn't have that final kind of blowout that you were kind of looking forward to, like Christmas, New Year, party, party, party.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Like I mean, so well that weekend, that weekend was like that.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

But but it's it's like that mental thing in your head because you're thinking, Oh, what have I done? This is stupid, because your brain's telling you you didn't you didn't do it properly, you didn't have your final thing at Christmas, because you're always gonna get that, you know, and it's like for the first couple of months anyway.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah, it was hard. Christmas was hard, you know. I don't sugarcoat it to anyone and tell anyone that Christmas is easy because it's not. But I also felt oh, I've done Christmas, so therefore I don't have to do Christmas next year. I'll be drinking by Christmas next year. Amazing! Yay! Got the hard bit out of the way. You know, I still had every intention.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Who would be thinking of that already a year ahead? Yeah, you're thinking I can drink on Christmas, it's like 12 months away, Done.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Um, but then as time went on, I was just like, oh my god, like I just felt so different. Um, and it was around six months that I decided I wasn't gonna drink again. My life had just changed like so much in six months. Didn't smoke, wasn't smoking, wasn't drinking, lost loads of weight, you know, did everything that I wanted to do for when I was 40. And and then obviously started, you know, I was quite invested into um like Club Soda at the time. That was quite like the main online group. Um, met loads of people through there and was just like actually, this is like quite a community. You've just got to find the the people who are on the same wavelength as you. Struggled with my friends a little bit because obviously none of them were changing. Um, and I think it was around six months that I met the club Soda Girls for the first time, girls and guys, um, and was like, oh, actually, I just need to find my tribe for it to be okay. Um, which you know, it's so I say to people now, you've got it so easy. You know, the amount of drinks you've got to drink, the amount of communities you've got to pick from, you know, they've got it so easy. We had Bex Blue and one or two or maybe three online groups. Like, it's just it's just incredible what people have got now.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Well, if like if you're a drinker, all you have to do is walk down high street, pop into a pub, and you'll be able to chat to someone that'll be on your wavelength and you're fine. Whereas with the sober person, no, you've got to you've got to really seek them out. Obviously, it's a lot better now than it was in 2016. You've got more than Vex Blue out there, but yeah, it I mean you're you're obviously a pioneer, Don. You know, you you and a few others that were out there doing that online at that time, because even in 2020, when I got sober, it was still there was a community, but even in the five years that I've been sober, it's just gone, you know, interstellar. But to 2016, that must have been like there's only a few of us here, you know. You must have felt like absolute pioneers. But thank you so much for for you know kind of persevering with it and building up what you guys in the club saw the lot have done as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah, it's um but that's but that's the thing. We didn't anticipate that it was gonna be like it is net like my intention was never to set up a community, my intention was to share the load of my boring life. And the irony of it was is that I got loads of messages from people saying, Oh my god, I'm just like you. It's like this was before the term grey air gray area drinking was. Are you there?

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, it's got a bit funny, but yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Um, yeah, but before gray area drinking was really a thing, and so I was getting messages from people going, you know, I don't consider myself to be an alcoholic, I don't go to LA, but I relate to your writing that I drink the same as you. And so that's when I started to realise, ah, right, okay. So there are a lot of people like me, and ironically, you know, friends like you're saying, your friends, you know, I was getting contacted by people who I would never have said have got a problem with alcohol, you know, drank a bit, had fun at the weekends, but I would never have said, Oh, they've got a problem, but then they didn't think I had a problem either. And so it's then you start thinking, well, you know, what is this all about? It's not necessarily that you I think in 2016 it was like you you either go to AA or you you drink yourself to death. There was nothing in between.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, and it's so I had I did a post yesterday or the day before about you know hating the words you know alcoholic. Because I I used to go to AA, I went to NA, and I would sit in the room and say, you know, my name's Jimmy, and I'm an alcoholic, I'm an addict. And you know, because I was rock bottom, I was, you know, there's people worse than me, but you know, I definitely wasn't a grey area drinker because I was drinking first thing in the morning towards the end, you know. And there's a there was a friend of mine from the meetings that came on the post yesterday and started saying, you know, and it was because he's very old school, he's 20 years sober, and he's like, you know, if you don't use that word, then certain people might not be able to get help. But I'm like, but it's not black and white out there, you know. I said what I'm doing with the podcast is trying to get people before they get as bad as myself, but also there is people that are maybe having half a bottle of wine on a Tuesday night. Now, he might think that that's nothing compared to him, but that's not the point. The point is that they're still having this negative impact of that alcohol on their life, because you know, that in my mind, my opinion, in my experience, it's only gonna get worse. So if it's causing a problem, then it's kind of this snowball effect, you know, you start drinking because you're thinking, Oh, I'm drinking too much, my life is shit, I'm gonna have another glass of wine. Do you know what I mean? Because it makes you feel better for that little kind of instant gratification. And I think there's so many different people out there that have different variations of a problem with it, you know. It's like that old saying, if you think you've got a problem with alcohol, then you've got a problem with alcohol. So it doesn't it doesn't mean you have to be, you know, first thing in the morning, you know, down in half a bottle of vodka before you can actually function. Like that's not that's not and then it's like you know, uh an old man sat on a park bench with a bottle in a brown paper bag. Yeah, there's that and there's that. But also there's someone that's just having you know few too many at the weekend, and then they don't remember the next day, but they haven't drank a huge amount of alcohol because it affects people differently, and this is this is the whole point. Like, there's not this old school you're an alcoholic and you've got all this stigma with it. Nah, forget that. That's not that's not what it's about anymore. It's about people having a negative impact with alcohol in their life, and it's like, do you know what? It's not gonna get better, it's only gonna get worse, so give it up now, you know. Um, and I think because we have this stigma with the word alcoholic, it it it puts a lot of people off, you know. So I'm so glad that they have brought in the word the terminology, you know, grey area drinker or middle of the road drinker, because you know that's that's you know, it's there's so many negative connotations with that word. Um, yeah. And I'm so glad that people are starting to find like minded because that do you know what? The the meetings help me out for for the first year, and I know they're there if I need them. I went to smart, I went to everything basically, and I think a lot of people are scared to go into these rooms, A, because they don't want people to see. Them there, and I'm like, yeah, but you know what, they're there for the same reason, but also they want to do stuff like this online in the comfort of their home, get their own support, get their own help, and follow people that they know that have been there before it, like you, like me, and that's that's where it seems to be at now. And it's changed so much in the past five years that I've seen it, I'm sure. In the what what are you eight, nine, nine years nearly coming up?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Nine years now, is it ten ten this ten this year?

SPEAKER_02 44:26

My decade, yeah. Yeah, wow, wow. That's so I'm very excited about that. Yeah, I'm coming up for 2,000 days.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, oh amazing.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

We were talking the day.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

It gets a bit you're scratching around a bit arguing.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Well, I think 2,000 is big, then it's like the next real big one after that must be 5,000. So that's like well, that must be close to 10, then isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

No, no, no. I've just done 3333 because we just celebrate anything these days. Yeah, so I've just done 3,333 days, and then I'll do I'll be 10 years in November. So 5,000 way up. Yeah, don't wait for that, don't wait for that till celebrate.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Don't wait for that, no. But I was chatting to I was chatting to a friend on here last year, and he's he's I think his sober days like three or four days behind mine, and um we were talking about it. We were like, you know what, like if we were to go out there again and start drinking again tomorrow, it's it's not about like well, I don't know if I've got another recovery in me, but anyway, like if I did that, it would just be so disheartening to go back to day zero. Do you know what I mean? Because like I don't want to do that, and then be in another five years' time, like be the same amount of sobriety as I was today. It's like it's just not even fathomable of thinking that. So that helps me stay countable. It helps me go, do you know what? There's no there's no real point in going back out there and doing it because I don't feel like a drink, I know I don't want a drink, and it's not gonna bring me any joy at all. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Um in the counting the numbers.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yeah, there's a lot of people that go, Oh, you're a day counter. And I'm like, Yeah, do you know what? I've got an app that does it. I don't I don't mark it on a calendar every day.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I know.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

So like I go to the app and it goes, Oh, yeah, I've got that, I've got something coming up. And actually, the 2000th day on this year, so I think it's like in nine days' time. It's actually on my birthday this year.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Oh my god, what are the chances? That's incredible!

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Yeah, I'll be 46 and uh 2000 days sober.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Oh, that's incredible! Well done.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah, yeah, thank you. So, when did you start kind of building up your your sober fish um persona and and group?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

It's a it's a good question. I don't know when it kind of all really um went crazy because I didn't anticipate that people were going to be interested to start off with, and then people were. Um, I guess really it was um in 2019 was when I set up my membership group. And the reason that I did that was because I was working full-time and I was getting a lot of traction with the blog, so I was getting a lot of messages, a lot of comments to respond to. And I was getting up earlier and earlier to fit everything in and going to bed later and later, and I just I couldn't cope with having a full-time job and doing what I was doing. So I had to find a way of monetizing it, which is why I came up with the idea of um setting up the membership group. I think at that time the Sabrefish story had about 5,000 people on Facebook, and the reason I'm telling you that is because I thought 5,000 people were gonna come into my membership group. And when I look at how ridiculous that is, like how I would ever have managed 5,000 people, um, it's like absolutely ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

I mean, it would have been ideal, it would have been ideal because you'd have been able to take on staff, but I think the way it works is it's like is it like 10% of whatever you whatever followers you've got actually interact with your stuff?

SPEAKER_00 48:10

So uh yeah, I mean, my my my my membership group um has got about I don't know about 90 people in it or something, it's a very small amount, but I'm always in there, like and always you know interacting. I think if you had 5,000 people in there, it would just be an absolutely impossible task. So I always laugh at myself and how my ambitions were great at that point. Um, and so people came into it, and then and then it was like, oh right, okay, now I've got two, you know, I've actually doubled my workload, which wasn't the idea. The idea was that I would halve it. Um, and so that's when I went part-time at the job that I was telling you about earlier. Um, and I still work part-time for that job. Um, and and then on you know, the soberfish side of it, I've got membership group, and then I trained to be a coach. So I now do coaching and run group coaching as well. So it 2020 for me was when everything kind of, you know, it just went a bit crazy because everybody was stuck at home and everybody's drinking habits were one moment they were good, one moment. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

Uh they increased tenfold in COVID. Like everybody was sat at home, they they bought hot tubs, and then because I'd spoke to someone and they bought a hot tub because they they they said it gave them an excuse to go out and drink in the garden. You know what I mean? Like it was like so we they bought a hot tub so that it was sophisticated and sat with with you know their cocktails or whatever. Yeah, but loads of people just sat. It was a beautiful summer, and yeah, no reason to work, so every day was yeah, so every day was a weekend. I I mean I got I got sober in 2020, which was you know which month did you get sober in? August.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Wow. So you did the first the first lockdown?

SPEAKER_02 50:06

I was in I was in rehab in the first lockdown.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

So oh my goodness, what a year you had.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Yeah, the whole of 2020 was a bit of a uh everything was coming to a kind of head with my ex at the time. Like I left her, and then I went and stayed with a friend, and then I was uh he he basically kicked me out, and then my family got me into rehab. I came out of rehab. Like, I think I was in there two days, and then the whole world went into lockdown. Um it was absolutely bonkers, and our counsellors were coming in and saying, I had to queue for two hours at Tesco's last night, and it was like two meters apart, and all that. We were getting like three meals a day. I was in there for 28 days, and we were just kind of like oblivious to what like we could see the news and we'd do all that, but we weren't interacting with the lockdown world. Then I came out and it was like this is just bizarre. I stayed with another friend for a couple of weeks until my flat was ready, moved into that, and then I relapsed, and then it was like literally for about two months until I then got an exemption to come to the Isle of Man because my parents had moved here as well. So they our our borders were basically locked down and they weren't letting anyone in. But my mum pleaded with like our local MPs over here, got me this exemption, and I came over, and then it still wasn't plain sailing, you know. I I I took another month or so of just thinking I can drink and not being able to piss everyone off, and then yeah, August came around and I I got a detox at the hospital up here and then never looked back.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Yeah, wow. Did all that. I always think people that get got sober in 2020 are absolute legends.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Oh, thank you. Don't get me wrong, I don't know how if I'd been if I'd still been with my ex and like we'd gone into lockdown, because if I'd stayed there another month, that would have been it. It would have been like, well, where am I gonna go? What's what's going on, you know? And I always think, like, how would I have been able to keep up my drinking habits with us all being in the house together? You know, it was kind of I yeah, I just I and then going to Tesco's or Sainsbury's, whatever, and piling up the booze because we would I couldn't just nip up to the garage like when they were out the back garden or something, do you know what I mean? I wouldn't been able to do that because uh COVID restrictions, so I don't know how I'd have done it. I'd have maybe had to get sober through kind of default, but yeah, yeah. So 2020 was like the first like everyone's going, oh this is horrible, COVID and blah blah blah. I was like, Do you know what I absolutely love COVID because it got me sober? So yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Um, so what's um what's next for you in in the kind of sober fishy world and and it's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

I don't know really. It's just I'm quite I'm quite happy with with you know, I'm really lucky, I've worked hard to get to where I'm at, and as long as Soberfish allows me to work from the sunshine, I am more than happy with the way that things are going. So um, yeah, I uh it is it's a good question because I d I guess I just kind of plod along, and and as long as it's affording me to do this, I'm I'm more than happy. This was always my dream to to work from abroad, so I'm really happy.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Yeah, well that's I mean, that's amazing. And I guess that is a dream because not only you know are is it is it allowing you to do what you want, but also you're helping so many people as well with it. It's just you know, it's an amazing kind of um group, Facebook group, and like I think I followed you for because most people that I follow definitely follow them on Instagram first, and most people don't really have a Facebook kind of you know persona, but yours is yours is definitely from Facebook that I I kind of saw you and followed you from that, which is amazing. Um what advice sorry go on, no no go on.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

No, it's uh no, I was just gonna say I started on Facebook, that's where where I first wrote my first post about on the Soberfish story, because it was originally called for Sob Sober for 2017, and I think it's just always being my baby on there, you know. And Instagram, I find Instagram difficult, like I just always have, it's just not really flowed for me, whereas Facebook, yeah, just kind of flows, and that's where I've attracted most of the people. I mean, the my my audience is the biggest on there. Um, yeah, and you know, I just really enjoy I I enjoy it as well. You know, I don't think you can do something for nearly 10 years and and not have a passion for it. So yeah, my Facebook basically No, I mean I'm exactly the same.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Like, I've been doing the podcast just over a year now, and like yeah, you know, I'm not monetizing it, but I enjoy doing it, and I enjoy just you know, having the freedom to to get people like yourself on and chat with you. And like I've said to people, this is this is kind of my meetings now, you know. This is what I I get, you know, yeah, my my kind of recovery is all about by by chatting to you guys and learning your story. And because that's my first my first year when I went to AA and NA, that was what kept me sober, listening to other people's stories and going, oh yeah, you know, and the amount of similarities between your story and my story is just you know amazing. It's it's it's incredible. So, what advice would you give to someone that was kind of sober curious, kind of thinking that it was causing an issue in their life and thinking, I need to get out of this.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Give it a go, get some support and and just give it a go. What's the worst that can happen? You know, when I look back at the reputation that sobriety had, I'm surprised I even bothered, you know, because sobriety's so dull and so grey. I mean, my um what's the what's the word? You know, my aim with all of this was to really show that it doesn't have to be what society tells you sobriety is. You know, uh sobriety for me is like full of colour. You know, I'm living my I am literally living my best life. And that is I this is only possible from not drinking. If I was drinking, I wouldn't be able to afford to be here, I wouldn't cope with being here because I'd just be drunk all the time. You know, um I support people to to become sober, which I obviously wouldn't be doing if I was drinking. And I just think, you know, it whilst not everybody's gonna have the carbon copy life as me, it must show that there is more to life than sitting there wishing for things to change in the bottom of a bottle. The answer isn't there, and I just think, you know, like I said earlier, people are so lucky now. There is so many, you know, you can go to a group where you can still keep drinking and people will support you until you're ready to stop. You can read the soberfish story, you know, there you don't have to be sober, it's a free resource. You can read it, you know, and I get so many messages from people saying, you know, I've been watching you for so long and I've just taken the plunge. You know, everybody will do it in their own time, but I think you know, just surround yourself with people who are living that life. And if that's what you want, then that's what you will get.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Yeah. I mean, that's that's the thing, like I said earlier, you guys, you're you know, especially you, Don, you're a pioneer in changing people's attitudes on what sobriety is. Do you know what I mean? Because, like, as you say back then, it was kind of grey, it was bland, it was like, well, if you're sober, you're not doing anything. But it's like, no, that's we've changed, you've changed the kind of persona of people because like we're out there doing all sorts of things, we're living our lives, living our best lives. That whole thing where people, someone's on a booze cruise and they're at the end of the boat and they're doubting that and they're going, I'm living my best life. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

This is living the best life.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Absolutely. You know what, Don, you're in Thailand working, working remotely, and just what what did you say at the beginning that you needed to keep turning the air con on and off because it's keeping it?

SPEAKER_00 58:16

I know it's it's such a tough life.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

My heart bleeds for you. So, Don, on on the back of that, do you regret getting sober, mate?

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Absolutely not. Yeah, I I it's really hard to explain to people how amazing it is. You know, you know, if you've got five years, you know how amazing it is. It's like when people say I'm three months sober and I'm feeling great, I'm just like, yes, but imagine how you're gonna feel it three years. You know, it's if you're feeling good then, if you're feeling good after two days, imagine giving yourself a month. Then imagine giving yourself six months. You know, I just I literally could talk about it forever because I I I am still to this day absolutely stunned that without that life was better because I just thought that that was life. I just thought that without it, I was just gonna be a shell of myself. And actually, I was the shell. Actually, leaving that to one side, I I became me. I mean, we were talking at the beginning about you know, not feeling enough and fit, you know, not feeling part of the in-crowd. You know, you can't really do a lot more than be sober amongst the world of people that are drinking to feel on the edge, to feel like you don't belong. I've never felt like I belong so much now because it's not about what everybody else is thinking, it's about what I'm thinking, and I'm really happy with the skin that I'm in, finally, you know, 50 years on. And actually, I thought alcohol was helping me feel myself, but it wasn't at all. It was literally stripping away everything that I was and my creativity, my productivity. You know, we were also talking about jobs and things like that. You know, I at 42, I thought I was in the job that I was gonna die in. You know, we used to laugh and say, thank God there's a lift because we're gonna be 92 and coming up that bloody lift and sitting at this desk. And uh I seriously thought that that was, you know, that was I really enjoyed my job at the time, but I thought that was it because I didn't know this existed, and I had to stop drinking for this to be able to uh come to fruition. Yeah, imagine if I just sat at that desk and kept drinking, none of this would have happened. It's just it's just mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

And then, but then you know, as we say, that like you'd be starting to get like these weird little illnesses that you know that alcohol is related to as you're getting older and you're getting more decrepit. And it's like the thing is what you're saying there, all those things like you know, the the the boredom, the shell of yourself, that's it like alcohol makes us think that that's what the other side is like, but actually it's completely the opposite. We're living in that shell that you said. We we are like you know, the boring ones because all we do is go out at the weekend and drink beer, and we need we need alcohol to be able to socialise with some. We're not the boring ones, they are. Do you know what I mean? That's the thing. This is the opposite of what alcohol makes us believe that our life could be like, and uh yeah, I don't like I said, there are people that are kind of you know, they need to do their kind of daily reprieve and all that. I I've done with that, I know I'm never gonna drink again, you know. I'm I'm kind of just not hankering after it, no interest in it at all. I don't get jealous when I see people going out on the lash or even having a glass of wine with a meal. I'm not not in any way, shape, or form um interested in that. And it and that that's that's taken years, you know. It's not it that didn't happen overnight, but it does happen. And I think with most people, you're like, yeah, couldn't even imagine going back to it. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, but I think sorry, say again.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

That that's the priceless thing, is because once you get to once you can say I'm never gonna drink again, that's so powerful to absolutely know that. You know, I get people on the public page say to me, Oh, you know, you're getting complacent, oh you can never say that you'll never drink again. You what do you know? You know, you don't know what's gonna happen. I'm like, I'm never gonna drink again. There is absolutely nothing, there isn't there is not one benefit to me ever picking up a drink again. Nothing. Because I don't want to numb anything out. I appreciate that bad things might happen to me, but I have other coping mechanisms. The last thing I'm gonna be doing is going back down that route to go back to that person that I've spent 10 years trying to get away from. It's like absolutely not. And I think we touched on um counting numbers earlier. You know, I know there's people who are like, you know, counting numbers is shit. Counting numbers, you know, has just been absolutely vital for me because the longer it goes, I'm like a decade sober this year. I can't wait to be able to say that. Like it's really important, and and it's you know, yes, it's absolutely fucking huge. You know, not a lot of people will will get to that in their lifetime, and I'm very, very proud of it. And there is you know, and each year that goes, it's another year solidifying that I'm not gonna go backwards because it's just too important for me to go forwards.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Yeah, no, I love that because um we didn't have one uh this year, but normally I have like a barbecue um on my sober date um when I used to live up at the cottage, and I would have that, I had it the first year, and because I my birthday's in February, so I never have a barbecue birthday, so I thought, well, I'll do it with a big one.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

So you were really you were really wise giving up in August because I'm an October baby and a November sober versus I still don't get a barbecue.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Yeah, so I mean I was I would like to say that I chose the 19th of August. I think it chose me. Yeah, it was it needed to be done, but yeah, now I so I don't know what we're gonna do this year because our wedding we got married on the on the 1st of August, and my sobriety dates on the 19th. My stepdaughter's birthday is literally a couple of days before that, so it kind of all we might amalgamate the whole thing into one. But for the first four years that I did it uh having the barbecue, it was great, it was like this lovely little celebration. It wasn't like hundreds of people, it was like you know, 20 or 30 people, but it was just lovely to to to be able to celebrate, and that was it. A lot of people they they kind of they go, Well, yeah, I'm sober, that's done. Do you know what I mean? But I'm like, nah, embrace it, you know, embrace it, shout it from the rooftops. The more people that kind of see how much we're having fun and enjoying life without the booze is beneficial for for for so many other people because if you just kind of get sober and then don't shout about it and don't talk about it, and just like you know, meld into the rest of society, it's like, well, you know, that's fine, do that, but I think the more and more you need to shout about it, the better. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

Have you got any recommendations for a book, podcast, or a film? One or all three.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

Um not just any book, obviously, to do with kind of recovery and alcohol related, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Book Alcohol Explained by William Porter. Um I just think it's a bit of a Bible. Um, and yeah, I think everybody but I also really liked Briany Gordon's Glorious Rock Bottom, which is like you can get two different ends of the spectrum of type of book, but I think her book was was very, yeah, very relatable for me. Which I actually I mean, it only came out a few years ago, but I was still sent back to where I'd come from when I read it. She's a powerful writer.

unknown 1:05:59

Um

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Um film about recovery. Oh god, I can't think of what it was called now. Oh, there was like a it was like a BBC documentary. We'll have to come back to that. I can't remember. And what was the other thing? Podcast. I've got to say your podcast, haven't I?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Your podcast. I mean, yeah, cheers.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

I can't be on your podcast and go, uh, let me just try and have a think.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

No, but do you know what I do? Like, I've because I've got I I kind of link a lot of other podcasts to mine as well. Because I'm like, you know what? You don't all have to just be listening to that. Because if they're listening to it, then they then they're they're obviously listening to it. So it's giving them recommendations for other ones. I don't I don't mind, you know, because I didn't have a book.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

I must admit, these days, I I'm not listening to many podcasts, but I was the same as you in my first year. I I literally it was like my earbuds were always in my ears, and I was always listening to um podcasts. Um and I used to listen to the over the influence podcast, which I don't think is around anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

I think you could probably still listen to it, but um you still get it, but I've not seen any updates for a while, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

No, I think it's finished, but um that's a really I mean i if it's still out there, that's got a wealth, wealth of information on it. So would highly recommend that. Um yeah, then it's just what what that documentary was called. Rain in my heart. Oh my god, it's um it's Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

So it's a documentary, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

It's very, very old.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

And um was that the one where they follow about three or four different people, and there's one lady and she's basically end of life in hospital.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

So trigger warning, you know, it is harsh in rehab, it's very harsh. Because I think it was like made maybe, I mean, it might be even it might be early 90s, but it looks like it's from like you know, yesteryear because it's so kind of uh grainy film and all that. Um, yeah, we watched that in rehab and it was it would yeah, I get they gave us all trigger warnings, but it was it was harrowing. But I was like, wow, I had no idea. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

But I think but I think if you're gonna have if you're sitting there on a Friday night thinking, I want to have a drink, and you stick that on. I tell you what, that was it was fundamental in me not wanting to drink again because I just remember thinking, fuck, like is that what happens? Like it was yeah, it's it's uh it's it's horrific to watch, but I think it's vital, especially in a moment that you're on the verge of going to have a drink. Just watch that, and I guarantee it'll work.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Yeah, cool, cool. I mean, yeah, thank you, Don. Um thank you, Don, for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure getting too much. It's very quick, hasn't it? Hearing your story, yeah, it has. It's flown past, yeah, yeah. Um, but I think I think people I know people are gonna get so much from this, and I know you've got massive following anyway, so that's that's amazing. But hopefully, you know, some of my listeners will be like, oh, yeah, yeah, Don's got a great story. So thank you so much for coming on and giving up your time. And I guess I'm gonna say what time is it over there now?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

It is 10 past six in the evening.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

10 past six, so yeah. Enjoy the rest of your lovely sunny evening. Has the sun gone down yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Uh, not yet. It will go down. I think it's half six, it goes down, but I'm working tonight, so um, feel sorry for me. I'm working on a Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

I will feel sorry for you. I will feel sorry for you. And then you can have an amazing Sunday on the beach. But yeah exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

Thanks, Dawn. Thank you ever so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

Cheers, mate. Speak to you soon. Bye-bye, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Thank you so much, Dawn. Um I think what you know I I kind of take most from this episode is again going back to the the kind of pioneering aspect of of Dawn's kind of sobriety in her early journey and putting her stories out as a blogger and just changing people's opinions and and kind of attitudes because back then it was like if you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic. You know, there wasn't any of this middle of the road drinking or gray area drinker, it was just that was you, and if you were that bad, you'd go to A. Whereas, you know, we see now that there's people that are like, you know, they've they maybe have a blowout once a month and they think that's too much for me. So they want to get better, they want to get sober, but they don't know how to do it. So they're going to you know Instagram, Facebook, and just you know, like Dawn and as I say, the club soda people, really just paving the way for you know people like that to kind of get help. They don't you don't always have to be like rock bottom like I was, and you know, like what Don said, I once you realize that this is the best way of life, you don't you don't, once your eyes are fully open, you don't want to go back. You have no need to go back. And I just want more and more people to to start realizing that sobriety is the way forward. But you know, once once you've tried it, you're never gonna go back. And that's that's the whole point here, you know. Um Dawn is coming up on 10 years, so you know, congrats to Dawn when she when she hits that amazing milestone. Um, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Dawn. Been an absolute pleasure. So thank you, and we'll chat again soon. Um yeah, thanks guys. Um hit the like, share, subscribe buttons, and give me a five-star review or a one-star review. Uh just put some comments on, guys, you know, because all of these things, comments, and I know there's a mad amount of comments coming on my YouTube now. So if you're not watching this, head on over to the YouTube channel and and and watch the episode again, but you know, in full technicolor and comment because there's a great little community building up there. Um fantastically, I had a guy from Alaska the other night saw one of my reels and basically wrote me this bit. I might actually ask him if I can put it on on the uh on the socials because you know he was drinking and he was ready to go and fill up another one, and his he was on his phone and my post, my reel came up and he poured it back into the bottle, and he uh got cleaned up, went and spent some time with these animals, and basically I don't know what what he's doing today or whatever, but that was that was yesterday. And it's just you know, I'm not trying to big myself up, but it's just great to know that someone on the other side of the world has watched one of my reels and made a conscious decision not to drink the rest of that evening. So whether or not he's gonna drink today or or whatever, who knows? But it switched a little, it flicked a switch in his head. So that's the only reason, that's the reason why I do this. You know, I do the podcast, I do the reels just to help the people out there that maybe just maybe makes them think I don't need that drink today. Maybe I'll try sobriety again. So that's it. You know, between Dawn at the far reaches at the beginning, and to myself now and all the people in between, you know, we're we're we're just doing it for other people that have been there like we were and want to get out of it. So um, as I say, like, share, and subscribe because it helps more people find out where the where the podcast is and helps it grow so that more people can get it. So thanks again. Thank you, Dawn, and uh see you guys next week. Cheers, bye bye.