Episode 66 - Nikki Pears

Nikki is a sobriety coach and the voice behind @mommyissober, where she shares raw, honest insights about what it really looks like to change your relationship with alcohol.

After years of struggling herself, Nikki realised that the problem wasn’t a lack of willpower, it was the need for relief. That understanding changed everything.

Her work now focuses on helping women, especially mothers, gently break the evening drinking cycle by working with their nervous system, not against it.

Through her coaching and her 6-week live program Unbound, Nikki supports women who are still drinking but know something needs to change, helping them uncover the root cause and build a life that no longer needs alcohol to cope.

You can find Nikki on instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/mommyissober?igsh=MWh1Zno3ZXUyc2hlOA==

And Nikkis website is here:
https://mommyissober.live/

The Surrender Experiment - Michael A. Singer
https://amzn.eu/d/0fBHg276

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Nikki, welcome to After Hours. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:21

I'm good, thank you, and thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Oh, you're so welcome, as I say. We've been we've been following each other for a little while now, but you know, I just love your content and you know I love your story and and what you're doing for you know women to get into recovery as well. So it's just so kind of life-affirming, and you know, we'll talk about that in a in a in a bit. But tell it so where are you from originally then, Nikki? Because you've got an accent, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

So I'm originally from South Africa, and we immigrated to Scotland just over four years ago.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

But uh, like we were just talking about the weather, we've actually decided to move back to South Africa, so that's a big move that is on the horizon.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, and is that down to the weather then? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Pretty much, pretty much down to the weather, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

I mean, I don't get me wrong, obviously from Glasgow originally, and you know, I I I love I love my country, love my city, and I know the Isle of Man's kind of got similar kind of weather, but if you're used to having really nice hot weather majority of the time, then yeah, Glasgow. Glasgow does the west coast of Scotland, it rains. You know, I remember when I was younger. Well, when I moved to England, kids, well, my friends were talking about rainy lunch times at school, and I was like, What's a rainy lunchtime? They were like, Oh, when it when it rains, we would all go into the big hall and we'd maybe watch a film or play games, and I was like, Are you kidding me? Like, we would just be given her big coats and get out in it. So, you know, it was uh it was a tough, tough childhood I had, uh Nikki. So so tell us about your childhood, uh, you know, where you grew up and and when you had your first drink.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah, so I grew up obviously in South Africa in Johannesburg, and I had my first drink when I was 17. So I just remember feeling completely lost and like really uncomfortable in my own skin and really not knowing how to act around other people, like a huge amount of social anxiety, and I almost felt like they forgot to give me the book on how to do life. Like, how did everybody else around me know what to do or how to interact socially? So I remember being out at it was an Italian club, it was like a dance disco that we all used to hang out at, and I had my first drink out in the bushes because we weren't obviously weren't allowed to drink. And I just remember this feeling coming over me where it just melted away all of those insecurities, and I felt like I had finally found the solution on how to do life. You know, I could interact with other people, I became this bubbly outgoing person, I became the star of the show, which actually turned out to be the clown of the show, more like, and yeah, from then on I just used it as a a coping tool, almost like medicine, you know. This is I didn't like who I was inside, and alcohol help helped me to be someone that I thought I was meant to be.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, yeah. What is the what's the legal age of drinking in South Africa?

SPEAKER_01 3:53

It's 18.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

It is 18 as well, yeah. But it's but it's interesting that, and I think you know, I had well I didn't know what it was at the time, but obviously social anxiety, I was quite a shy kind of kid growing up, teenager, whatever, but like you're right, it seems like everybody has got it all figured out, but actually do they? I think there's like maybe one or two in a in a school year that have got that confidence, you know, that outgoing nature to just kind of get on with it and speak their mind, and you know, but the rest of us are all kind of I don't know, not maybe not struggling, but just I don't know whether it's like social pra like social constructs that that make us feel like we're not able to say certain things. Do you know, do you know what I mean? Like well, oh like I I won't say that because that sounds stupid, but then when you have a drink, you just say whatever, and it actually it's okay to say that stuff, you know, it's not no one's laughing at you, or you know, they're not they're they're they're kind of laughing with you or whatnot, and it's yeah, but alcohol, you're right, it does have that kind of ability to make us open up, loosen up. But actually, you know, I think if we just if we just wait a bit longer, then as we get into adulthood, we get our confidence, you know, and that's that's what I think with me essentially when I got sober at 40, I was like, okay, do you know what I am quite a confident person, but I was always kind of masking it with alcohol, and I just I just got so used to having this social lubricant that I thought, well, why why should I bother trying it without it? You know, is that kind of how it was with you then?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty much how it was with me as well. And I think I think just not not being comfortable and confident in my own skin, you know, I didn't really know like who who who am I, like who was I? And I also felt like I was carrying this emptiness inside, and alcohol almost filled that hole for me for a couple hours, then of course the massive consequences came back later on. But yeah, as as I've come into sobriety and I've learned to work on the inner stuff like the my nervous system, my confidence, feeling comfortable in my own skin. And I do think it also comes with age, where eventually you just don't actually give a damn what other people think about you anymore, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Whereas before I used to obsess about things like, oh my gosh, what do they think of me? Or oh my gosh, why aren't they answering my WhatsApp when af after five minutes, you know, why are you?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Am I wearing the right am I wearing the right clothes? Am I watching the right films? Am I reading the right books? Is my hair do you know what I mean? All these things, especially when you're a teenager. And then I suppose in your twenties as well, because we live in a society where everything is kind of you know trending or fashionable, and you don't want to be the kind of you know left out in the cold type thing. So it's yeah, so what how what how was kind of so you were 17? Were you still at school at that point, and then did you go to university and what was your working life like?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, so at 17 I was still at school, and then um after school I went to university, and that was just diabolical because I um I went to study veterinary nursing, so the nurses and the vets all sort of lived in res together, and there was a massive drinking culture. So we used to take the we used to take the horse drop bags, so like the five-litre drop bags. Oh right, right we used to fill them with vodka and orange, and then we would take the drips and we'd sip on them, like tie them around our necks and sip on that as a vodkan orange, and it was absolute chaos. And but but during university was the first time that I had this moment where let me explain the moment and I'll tell you why. So it was the first time I felt accepted, and it was the first time I said to myself, Oh wow, look, you're accepted because you're actually good at something. But the something that I got accepted at at well with was I got accepted into the drinking club.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, yeah, and I was Yeah, not like who you are as a person, or you're good at this, or you're in a sports team, or you're good at veterinary nursing, or you know, it it's no, you're good at drinking, we're accepting you for that. But you feel you feel elated, I'm sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Exactly, exactly. It's that's like the first time I felt, okay, yay, I'm accepted, you know, I'm finally good at something, and I was the first girl to be accepted into the Vets drinking club. So this was like a big badge of honour to wear, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah, yeah. And and so what was that like drinking wise? Was that keeping up with the with the guys drinking pints or you know, what were your habits like? What were your what was your tipple?

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, I know it was anything and everything, it was just absolute carnage. I mean we used to have these parties in the Reds, and we used to have parties in the digs, you know, where we were staying or where friends were staying. Um we yeah, I mean, I broke my kneecap once. I was I was on the dance floor, and the dance floor was all sticky where drinks had obviously been dropped, and I was doing some kind of a funny move and my foot got stuck and my kneecap popped out to the side. Oh Jesus. Yeah, but it didn't stop me. It didn't stop me. I mean, you know, I still I still carried on and had to go into hospital obviously the next day, and they wouldn't operate on me because I stank so badly of booze.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Oh wow. Yeah, so the continued on dancing or drinking at least you were probably sat down after that happened, but like you still kind of plowed on through until the next day, really.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

So No, I the I mean I carried on for a little bit and then my friends had to take me and I I had to go home. But yeah, but it's but it's yeah, but that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

We would think that that would be like a red flag for us. I mean, I've had so many different injuries and things, but you just put it down to like oh yeah, I you know that was a silly thing, or you know, it's a it's a story for the for the you know the annals of of drinking stories and all that, and yeah, but it's it's like a badge of honor, but it's it's not it's not cool. But I'm guessing that that well obviously that you said that didn't that didn't learn you your lesson. So how did your did you how were you doing it, uni? Was that okay? Were you still doing the classes, the lectures, and coursework?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah, so what we would do is when we were majorly hungover, we used to hook each other up onto RV drips.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Okay, I mean I mean me and my buddies at college in uni, we would go for a we'd go for a couple of shots at you know, kind of break time or something at the union, but you guys were hooking yourselves up to like a cannular drip, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to put each other onto Ceylon drips with a vitamin B solution inside, and in a couple of hours we were as right as rain.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Off we went to the next ready to get back on it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, yeah, insanity.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah, I well, I mean it's the things we did, and I'm I mean was this like in the uh and I don't want to guess your age, but kind of the the late nineties, early noughties, or or later than that, was it when you were um no that's 2000 and 2001, I think I graduated from veteran nursing school. Yeah, so so like late nineties and that. And that was I don't know what it was like in South Africa, but over here it was a there was a massive drinking culture just in the media, in the in the music, everything we were listening to, it was it was booze, it was drugs, and yeah, like if you weren't out partying, then you were a square, you know, you were a dudge, you weren't you weren't really part of anything, so we just kind of all fell into that. Uh yeah, I'm sure there were people that were sober and and not drinking, but I I didn't know them, I didn't associate with them. Like if they told me they were a strong drinker, I'd be like, Well, what am I gonna talk about?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, like I know, and it's so bizarre because I have now this stance where I'm kind of like you know, um I I I I don't really like booze at all now, I'm really really against it, and it's like but I'm trying to trying to trying to show people that you know it's there is another life out there, so yeah, but how did your drinking kind of did you get a job in in veterinary nursing then and and kind of no so I didn't when I um so my whole the whole reason I did veterinary nursing was because I didn't get accepted into veterinary so my plan my plan was to do veterinary nursing and I actually did really really well at it and I did get accepted into veterinary but in between finishing my nursing and starting the veterinary course I went to Mozambique for the summer holidays to go and look after the horses on the beach and to do the horse riding for them on the beach, and that is where I met my now husband. He was my diving instructor. Yeah, yeah. So I never ended up leaving Mozambique and okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

So you just stayed and fell in love and stayed, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So yeah, my hubby and I ended up um building our own dive center, scuba diving center in Mozambique, and we ran that together for 12 years.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Wow, that's and I'm guessing you get probably a lot of backpackers and things like that through Mozambique, and you know, diving's definitely on the tech list for backpackers and stuff, so I bet it was a thriving business, but partying quite a bit as well with that.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yes, a lot of backpackers, a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol, a lot of partying involved, like a crazy, crazy amount. Um so yeah, it was it was okay until it wasn't okay, until it was starting to really interfere with me getting to work, with just life in general, you know. It was just one big party that I never wanted it to end. I never wanted to come back to reality. That was really hard for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Well, you're kind of your own boss and you've got your own business, so you're successful, and you know it's doing well, and it's like, but if you're like that whole mentality, work hard, play hard, so you deserve it. And was your was your husband kind of is he a drinker? Was he a drinker as well?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Or yeah, so I mean he would party, but he knew when to stop. You know, he knew when enough was enough. Where I'd I would carry on until I fell down, you know, or blacked out, or reigned in some kind of chaos.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah, it's it's crazy, isn't it? Because you know, my my wife, she's you know, she didn't know me when I was in my drinking days, but she's she'll go out with the girls and she'll have a few. I've never seen her drunk. Like she said she's drunk, and I'm like, you're you're really not, you know. But it's like, how can they in this day and age, how are they not finding that gene that we might have had that that others don't have, you know, where they where they know where there's a line and then they can just stop and go, right? I've I've had enough, and that's them for the night. But it's like for me, uh yeah, literally drink until pass out, or you know, if I didn't pass out, it was blackout, and then God knows how I got home, or if I got home, if I didn't end up in some random party, you know, after party and whatnot, it's so dangerous. But yeah, they they must be they must be researching it and finding out why so and it the thing is, right, with me, it's like it is a drug, so the more you take off a certain drug, you're gonna get addicted at some level, you know. There's there's people that I know that wouldn't think they've got a problem, but if you try and said to them like give up for a month or two months or three months, they probably wouldn't be able to do that, and it's because they might not have this negative impact on their life, but because their body's used to having that, like for example, there's a girl I knew, she would only have a bottle of proseco, and she was only little, she'd have a bottle of proseco every Friday night and then not drink the rest of the week. But if for some reason she was maybe busy or doing something else and she wouldn't be getting that bottle of proseco, she started getting a little bit, you know, jittery and angsty, and and like because her body knew that that's what it was supposed to be getting, because you've got a kind of I even in a small way dependent on it, so yeah. But then there are just people that can just obviously like your husband, like Jen, my wife, that can just uh Yeah, I don't I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I don't get it. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

It's like it's the most anxiety inducing thing for me to watch someone nurse a glass of wine over like a two-hour period. Like I j I just I cannot.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, I mean that's the thing, it's like when you're doing rounds and I would go, right I'll I'll get these in, and I would go up to the bar and I'd probably get like a couple of shots in while I was up there because everyone was drinking really slowly, and then it was like right, I'll just I'll just because I'm on the shorts now, so you guys stay on the pints and I'll just get my own because they were just yeah, just painfully slow. Um and all my decorum had gone out the window by that point. Um so how did so did you kind of were you at this point you probably weren't still drinking because of anxiety? I mean, when you were sober during the day, did you still feel that crushing anxiety or as you were?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

I just I just uh I just had this feeling of feeling lost, like I was always lost. Like, where am I where am I going? What am I doing? What is my purpose? Never never feeling fulfilled on the inside. I mean, when we lived in Mozambique and we my husband, well my boyfriend at the time or fiance, whatever, we got married, and then um we had our kids, and I still and everything on the outside was like perfect, you know. We lived in this beautiful house right on the beach. We had this highly successful dive center, um, I had beautiful children, like everything was picture perfect, but inside I felt like I was still dying, like what was wrong with me? And it's like I had this hole in my soul, you know, and I no matter what was going on around me or how good it was, I just couldn't feel fill this hole. And so I turned to or carried on using alcohol and drugs to try and fill this hole up inside. Um and obviously, actually, the more that I used and the more that I drank, the more it was chipping away at this hole inside, and so until eventually you you can't even consume enough of anything to try and fill what was happening on the inside. So I think it's only when I really started looking at ways to find that inner happiness and that inner peace that that I got alcohol to lose its grip on me. Otherwise I yeah, I fear to to think what would what would have happened.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, and like so what what were your your drinking habits like through your kind of twenties? And how long have you been sober now then?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

In March I'll be four years.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Wow, right, brilliant. So so yeah, so still quite a a while to go. But were you were you drinking daily or were you kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, I drank every day.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Like I could I could probably string a few days together, but it was brutal.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Uh-huh. And did you have any kind of rules set up like I won't start drinking until after work or yeah, so you would you were doing that, like get the kids to bed or or whatever with that, then and then start drinking. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Or I'd or I'd only have like wine and soda, or I'll only drink at six o'clock, or I'll only drink on a Friday, that's never ever happened, or you know, all those kind of rules. Then trying to change the drink to a lighter version and everything under the sun that I could think of to try and moderate my drinking, I tried, you know, and nothing worked.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Did your husband or anyone kind of say to you like you're maybe drinking too much, or were you kind of on the surface just functioning fine, so no one was really aware of it, or not aware of it, but but thinking, well, it's not a problem, or was it a problem then?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, I think I was a really good actor in my own show. You know, I put on all the different masks so that because I was ashamed and I was embarrassed, you know. I was a mother and I didn't want people to see what was actually going on underneath. Obviously, my immediate family behind closed doors, they knew exactly what was going on. And I mean, eventually it got so bad that I uh booked myself into rehab in Like I just knew, you know, I I wasn't turning up as the mother I wanted to be, I wasn't turning up for work, and I was in a dark, dark place, you know, a really dark place. And I I really scared myself, you know, and I thought I thought the rock bottom that I hit before I went to into rehab was gonna sort me out and scare me enough to to stay sober, but no, that was just the beginning of my journey.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

And were you still at the were you still in Mozambique when you went into to rehab or where were you?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, I I knew like if something didn't change, there was gonna be serious dire consequences. So I had to fly, I had to fly from Mozambique to Johannesburg because that's where I went to rehab. So I missed the flight three times.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

From drinking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Oh yeah, I thought I'll I need to just get in one last party.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Of course, of course, that's what we do. I mean, I I went to rehab and I was drinking a bottle of vodka in the taxi, and I think the taxi journey was about two and a half hours, and then when I got there, it was like I still had a bottle of wine that I was drinking, and I said to them, this was during COVID, well, it wasn't quite COVID yet. I think it was two days after, but there was still anyway. They said to me, I said, Oh, can I finish this in here? And they were like, No, this is this is rehab, like what are you on about? And I was like, Well, can I finish it out in the street and then come in? And they were like, Yeah, go on then. So I did that and then and then went in. Sorry, you could carry on with yours. So you missed two, two, three flights, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yeah, and eventually I got there. So I um I booked myself into rehab and I originally booked in for four weeks because I thought, you know, I'm not that bad, four weeks is gonna sort me out. Um, and then I ended up staying for six weeks. Right. So I didn't see my kids, I didn't see my hubby for six weeks because they were still in Mozambique.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Um, but I I worked hard, I worked hard at it, and I came out and carried on with my sobriety and working on all the things that I should be working on. And I felt really good, and about two years in I thought to myself, uh, I'm okay, you know, I don't need to I don't need any more help. I've got this, you know, I haven't drank for two years. I I took back my I took back my self-will and thought that I could do it on my own. And also the thought of going to that place I was in, that rock bottom that I hit before I went to rehab, it absolutely terrified me. And so for the next three years I basically white knuckled it until and it was hell, it was hell on earth because all the normal stuff that was still there, well not normal, but like the resentments, the anger, the fear, that empty feeling I was carrying inside, all started rearing its ugly head again, and I didn't have anything to numb it with. Um, so it was hell, honestly, and I I lost the plot at the end, and I eventually lifted a drink again after five years.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Five years, wow. And was this the rehab and then your two years was that kind of fellowship-based, like AA kind of recovery? Yeah, yeah. So after the two years, you kind of stopped going to meetings and thought, right, I've got this, I can do this, right? That's that's interesting, yeah. And then I suppose the three years was kind of almost like dry drunk, I guess, because you've still got all the things in your head, and yeah, that sounds horrible. And I guess like you've you've been drinking to fill that hole in your soul, as you said. Then you've got sober, and I guess those three years were just even even worse because you're thinking, Well, what am I even what am I even doing? Like what like I've got sober and now I'm still feeling like horrendous. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

It was it was really a nightmare. It was a massive eye opener for for me. And like looking back now, I believe I had to go through that to understand that sobriety is not just about putting down the drink, you know. Putting down the drink is really just the first step, it's what's got to come from underneath that is the really important part in order to live a life that is where we have that serenity and happiness and that peaceful feeling inside. So looking back now, I'm grateful, but at the time I certainly was not grateful.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

No, and how was your kind of you know, I mean, those two years that was probably quite good, those the first two years of sobriety, like you know, but how was your family life after that? I mean, you're obviously your kids were getting older and your kind of married life, was that putting a strain on that? Because it sounds like you were probably quite depressed, if you know, at the least of things, uh not not to mention all the other stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Very angry, very volatile, very happy one moment, sad the next moment, and like I didn't know what was going on. I just thought, well, I have to stay sober, you know, this is what sobriety must be like, and uh it was yeah, just I was all over the place. They didn't know what they were getting from one day to the next, you know. My emotions were an absolute wreck, and I I was like a child, really, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Yeah, not able to maintain a you know happy existence or you know, like yeah, it it must have been horrendous, not just for you but for them as well. And what was the what was the catalyst, sorry, that that that made you pick up again after those three well five years?

SPEAKER_01 27:51

I th yeah, after five years, I think it was just I'd I'd reached the end, the end of my tether, you know. I just could not take that feeling inside anymore, that anger, the raw emotions that were welling up in me every five minutes, and I just needed that relief, you know. I wanted to turn it all off. Um, you know, trying to hang on to the edge of my sobriety by a shoestring for th those three years was I just I'd had enough.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you just you just uh thought, did you think like I'll just have one and then I'll be okay, or did you think I'm gonna go back to it stronger than ever, or did you just think it's just gonna be the one? I'll take the edge off and then I'll get back on my sobriety.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah, I mean I thought to myself, well I've done this on my own for three years, you know, surely, surely my drinking wasn't that bad, or my addiction wasn't that bad. I'm sure this time is gonna be different. I'm sure this time I can just have a few, and within a few weeks I it was worse than when I went into rehab.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, I mean the real like I never went a stretch of five years apart from now, but like if I do like two weeks or I think I'd even done well, I did I did close to 90 days one time, and yeah, like as soon as I went back to it, it was it was so much worse than before. It just it just grips you again, and that's that's what we try and tell people. Like you relapse is part of recovery, but once you go back, it it doesn't get easier, it doesn't get better, it only gets worse.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

So there's there's there's no one that's gone out again and said, Wow, I'm really glad I went out.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Exactly, yeah, yeah. Like I've got it, this is I've got it mastered now, I know how to drink properly. Yeah, yeah, like no, we've we've ruined that part. It's that whole what is it you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber, but yeah, so what was that like? Because it didn't you didn't just do it for a while, then it sounds like you you were back that would have been probably the start of COVID, I'm guessing, with the with the years just before that.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, so a little bit before that. Um just trying to think. So probably about it was two because I left rehab in 2014. So 2019, I lifted a drink again.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

And yeah, I was I was drinking again for some time, and then it just it just had me again, you know, back to the the awful consequences, not getting up in the mornings, not being able to take my kids to school, and just all that shame and guilt and not showing up as I wanted to, and in the back of my mind, still having that rock bottom that I had reached before rehab, still having it there, knowing that I knew I was heading in a similar direction. So I got myself back into the fellowship and I got eight months of sobriety, then stopped going to meetings again because I started feeling better and thought that I've got this. The self-will is just incredible.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

We know best, don't we? We know best.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

I am not surrendering to this. I know what I'm doing here. I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Like I've done it, and it's like, no, you you've clearly proved you can't do it, so why are you trying it again? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Insane. Insane.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Absolutely well, that's it, it's the madness of it, isn't it? So yeah. So then that yeah, go on, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

So I got I saw I had eight months and then yeah, lifted a drink again, and again, back to worse than it was, as if it could could get any worse. It was just it was day day in, day out. The drinking was starting earlier and earlier, especially on the weekends. I would start at like 10 o'clock in the morning, so took myself back to the fellowship, and yeah, then things were going well. I was working hard, working a program, and then we immigrated to Scotland and I completely moved away from my home group, my fellowship, the people that I knew. But I was feeling good, so I wasn't worried about it. And I said to myself, you know, if I can immigrate with three kids, two cats, buy a house, get them settled into school, and not think about lifting a drink, then I must be cured.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you uh do you still go to meetings in Glasgow or in Danu?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, yeah, here in Danun. We've got meetings, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Right, okay. And how are they?

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Small. Our meetings are very small because we live in a a bit a little village.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Um, but yeah, no, I love my my Friday meeting every week.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah, I mean the thing is, and I don't I don't go anymore over here, but you know, I keep myself steeped in the in the recovery world. But when I first started meetings over here, like drugs were never a major problem for me, but I went to NACA uh there was an AA group, but I I I just didn't it wasn't my tribe, if you know what I mean. So I went to the NA and it was just great. When we started, I think there was like four of us, including me, so it was tiny, but by the time I left it was it was about twelve or thirteen of us, so tiny compared to other people I've spoken to. Like I spoke to a guy on he was from uh uh Montreal or Quebec, one of the one of the Canadian cities, you hate me for uh getting that wrong, but he said there's literally hundreds in his home group, you know, and that's one of many different home groups in the city. And I've spoken to a friend of mine from Glasgow, and he said, like, he doesn't go anymore, but he went to one and it was just really like a lot of 13 steppers people trying to sell you stuff out in the car park, and just just like really, really a bad vibe. And I was like, Oh, like I so I'm so glad I'm not in like I went to one when I lived in Hull, and there was about 50 or 60 people in that group, and it was very similar, it's very like you know, dure and and really really I like I didn't come out of that buzzing like I did the ones over here, but it sounds like you've got a really good one with because I think once they get too big, there should be a I'm not trying to say like you know, oh there's too many, you can't come in. Of course, they can't stop people, but it's time to kind of maybe set up another one because how is everyone getting listened to and sharing when there's too much far too much, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

That would freak me out if I walked into a room of 50 other people no way.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah, especially if you're like like my first meeting over here. I don't think I said boo to a goose. I was just feeling like I was only a few days sober, I was feeling rough as, and you know, just all the shame and guilt and everything, and but after a couple of weeks, like you couldn't shut me up, you know, because I felt comfortable. I was in my you know, I'm still really good friends with a lot of the guys and the women from the meetings as well, but I just it got to a year, and we had a bit of uh I think they called it circuit breakers to do with the lockdown. And we couldn't get we couldn't get in the room because of COVID. So we took the meeting out into the park, and I was always like, Oh, if I can't get to a meeting, am I gonna relapse? And that really scared me so much so that I was like, Well, I'm gonna try and move on to like phase two of my recovery, and like I know the meetings are there if I need them. I'm still gonna do my like I still continued and finished my 12 steps and I got a sponsor across and I did all that, but I just didn't go into the rooms as much anymore. I still did smart for a while, um, but it's kind of you know, it's each everyone's individual, and you know, I'm so glad that you've kind of got back into them up there.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

So yeah, yeah, I I have the meetings for the for the community aspect.

unknown 36:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Like I do a lot of a lot of my own work that has that I feel now this time in sobriety has been like the missing link for me, you know. A lot of the the nervous system work. I've I've learned that I've got a really, really sensitive nervous system, and I was basically living my entire life in fight or flight mode. You know, so working on regulating my nervous system so that I feel like I'm not spiraling all the time has been a massive turning point in my sobriety.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah, so how did to tell us a little bit about that and what's your what's your company called and and you know what what what is it that you offer people? Tell us a bit about that, the nervous system, and that because it's really interesting. I've not delved into it fully myself, but it'd be interesting to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah, you know, I think it's just everything that I felt like what that was missing from from the inside for me when I spoke about when you asked me when I had my first drink, and I spoke about how I had this empty feeling inside. I feel that from a very young age I wasn't able to process my emotions, and it's not because I was brought up in a house where anything was bad or anything was wrong. I just think emotions weren't really spoken about when when we were growing up. You know, I I remember my mum saying to me, just put a smile on your doll. Like anytime I used to try and express how I was feeling, like Mom, I feel sad, or Mom, I feel this. Sure, just just put a smile on your doll, you know, and just carry on. So I think from from a young age I learned to suppress those emotions. So anytime any kind of emotions did arise, they were very overwhelming, and I would just reach for a drink to to numb them.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

It's a quick quick fix, isn't it, to do that? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, yeah. So just an off-switch, just turn it off, you know. I can't bear the feeling of any kind of emotion that used to run through my body. So from a young age, I didn't know how to do that, you know, I didn't know how to process any of those emotions, and I know that I was a very anxious child. Like anxiety was high for me, and but I didn't know that it was anxiety, I didn't know how to express that. So carrying on through my adult life, I lived with that anxiety, but also the fact that I was just running through my day from next one task to the next task, making sure everybody else around me was happy, but never making sure that I was okay. Like self self-care and self-love was an absolute foreign concept to me. You know, when I came into sobriety this time around, it's been the number one priority that I do. Like I have to come first. You know, if I'm not feeling on the good, I'm if I'm not feeling good on the inside, everything around me is gonna fall apart, you know, and I think that has been one of the turning points, like a massive step forward for me, um, making sure that I am happy and and filled up on the inside because that will just overflow into every other area of my life, and it does.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Mm-hmm. Um no, I mean I I like when I was in rehab, they said, Oh, you've got to do this for yourself and no one else, and you've got to get sober for yourself. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't, I was getting sober for other reasons at the time, and it didn't work. And then when I did get sober for myself, that's when it stuck, you know, and that's the thing they say, it's like the last selfish thing that you will do is is getting sober, and then and then you can start building the rest of your life around that, but it's you've just got to do this one thing, and it's it's crazy. So the nervous system thing, did you did you kind of study that and and then you know um get any qualifications in that to now do the business with it? Is that is that your full-time business?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

No, yeah. So I I I coach I coach women, I'm a sober coach. And yeah, my so my main focus is on helping women learn to regulate their nervous systems. So going throughout the day and we learn gentle tools like breathing tools, grounding tools, so that we're not just waiting until four or five pm to finally exhale. You know, we we're building up that regulation throughout the day where we stop and check in with ourselves so that by the time four to five pm comes, you're not spiraling, and that's how we get alcohol to lose its grip, you know, because you're not spiralling out of control at four or five pm. You don't feel this crazy pull to alcohol to just give you that instant off switch.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah, yeah, it's it's so true, and I think you know, even when I was doing NA and the fellowship stuff, I was like, wow, these like all of these kind of um things that they're teaching us and suggesting to us, like you don't have to have a problem or negative impact with alcohol or drugs to be using these in your life, you know. Like what you're saying there, like I'm sure there's there's hundreds, if not thousands, of women out there that are not not having a problem with alcohol, but they're still doing the same thing, like they're they're kind of screwing everything up all day, like twisting it up and then getting home and then just maybe taking it out on their kids or their their husband or whatever, rather than kind of regulating it and you know, touching base through the day to kind of just just ground themselves and get themselves back to normality. Whereas, you know, because you know, like I I see it with my wife as well, and she's she's great as a as a mother, but like you know, I can I can tell she's she's juggling a lot of things because they're they're not my children, they're my stepchildren, but she is juggling a lot of things all day, like working out where they're gonna go here, and you know, they stay with their dad and and all of this stuff, you know. And I'm trying to help her, but you know, I can see sometimes that it is it's a stressful job in itself, doing you know, being a mother and and having a full-time job. Um, but as I say, she doesn't she doesn't turn to alcohol, um, and I'm not saying that she's super stressed or anything like that, but I can see how easy it is for people to you know pick up a drink for you know to just get that instant gratification at the end of the day. Um and and this is the thing with the podcast because I don't I don't want to have you know people that were as bad as myself or as bad as you that were just drinking, drinking, drinking. If it's causing a negative impact in your life, then it's time to knock it on the head, you know. I think that's I think a lot more people, um especially like you know, uh you know, my age or your age, they're they're starting to realize that the party has to kind of end at some point and it's it's caught it's bringing nothing, no joy to your life. So why do we still do it?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

You know, yeah, yeah, there's definitely a waking up uh around alcohol, that is for sure. Um even even the youth now, like if you there's a lot of these um sober sober clubs or sober bars that are are opening up in Glasgow. Um, so there's definitely a lot, a lot more awareness and uh a wake up around what alcohol is actually doing to society, I think.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah. Scotland are really kind of um they are tackling it because I remember I lived in Cambridge and I remember. One of my colleagues came in one morning and she went, This was this was maybe 2005, 6, something like that. And uh she came in and she said, Oh, I watched this documentary last night, and it said that you know um life expectancy in Scotland and in particular Glasgow was worse than some third world countries. And I was like, Oh. And it was like there was the like the the the death rate in Glasgow was just ridiculous, like the mortality rate compared to other European cities, and it was I think it was like something like people were expecting to live to like 55 or 60. And it's like in a in a in a western civilised country, that's how bad it was. So Scotland obviously, because of alcohol, because of smoking, because of really fatty foods and diet, just it was. I mean, the alcohol was obviously the the the worst one at the top. But if you start drinking, you're gonna smoke because your inhibitions are down, you're gonna eat crap and all that. But then the Scottish health board came in and really the government helped, and you know, obviously there's still issues up there, but it's so much better. I mean, it's back to a normal kind of life expectancy up there because they're doing things like that. They're also, I think Scotland has quite a number of government-provided rehab centres as well. Um, and now they're doing that thing with the um like the safe place for people to take drugs. I think the day it opened earlier this year, they had I think it was something like 40% of the people coming in to use their drugs safely were inquiring about rehabilitation and recovery and and you know getting clean, which is you know astounding. Whereas, you know, in in some places in England it's they they're just turning people away because they don't have the the money or the you know, they're not seeing this as a as a major issue. It's like we need to tackle this head on because people are dying, people are people are getting unhealthy, you know. Alcohol causes seven types of cancers and all of these things that are not being they're not being told to people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

No, yeah, no, that's the scary part. I mean, I I had no idea what alcohol actually does to your body. No idea.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

No, same. I just thought, like I smoked and I thought, oh, you know, I'll give up smoking. And I, you know, I've given up smoking, but it was like, oh, give up smoking before it's gonna cause me issues and touch wood. I hopefully I have done. But alcohol, I just thought, it's just alcohol, you know. Maybe if I'm maybe if I'm in my 60s or 70s, I'm gonna get cirrhosis in the liver, but I'll be an old man then anyway. Oh god, there's people, there's people in their 30s. In fact, I knew I knew a girl from rehab, and she sadly died in May this year. She was only in her 30s, she got cirrhosis. And when I was in rehab with her, you know, she was jaundice, she was yellow, and we had to put her in a wheelchair because the nerve endings in her feet were just shot. She she came, she got sober and she came out, but she was lying to us all. Like, I didn't keep in touch with her that often, but every time I did, she was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, I'm good. And then obviously she wasn't, and she was just drinking, drinking, drinking, and until it killed her. Yeah, it's it's it's a horrible, horrible thing. It really is. But I you know, like I say on the podcast, like I think it is time for the governments to start putting labels on bottles. Like, I'm not saying we're gonna go to prohibition time and you know, stop people drinking, but at least if people know the dangers, you know, it'll be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

No, I mean they put it on cigarette boxes.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Exactly, exactly. You know, but that took a while as well. I mean, I remember I started smoking that wasn't on the packets, it wasn't and then and then you did you you would look at the packets and go, Oh my god, this is a horrible one, but you just didn't care and you'd spark up. But you knew at least we were aware of the dangers.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

But you know the seed was planted.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

The seed was planted, and definitely I think the more and more people that know that alcohol's really not safe, even the government give you these kind of drink safe levels of drinking, they're not safe, no level of drinking is safe, it's it's it's doing you damage no matter what, and also alcohol can you it kind of changes your personality, it makes you into a bit of like a clown, as you said, and you know, but I think a lot of people are using it as a social lubricant because of anxiety, and because they're so used to drinking, they would find it ridiculously hard to go out and socialise without alcohol. Yes, absolutely sad state of affairs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Yeah, I mean the lot a lot of the women I work with, a lot of them use it for social anxiety because they feel so socially awkward, or a lot of women use it for that instant off switch at the end of the day, you know, when you've carried all that overwhelm and stress and anxiety through the day, and then you get to four or five pm and you take that glass and it's just that instant off switch. But unfortunately, it doesn't stop there, you know. It doesn't once that flip that switch is flipped, it's just game on.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Game on, and then it's like, well, I'll deal with tomorrow when it comes, and then you'll probably be hung over and have like maybe four crappy hours at work, but by after lunch you start to feel a bit better, and you're like, you know, I'll have a few drinks tonight to just settle it out. I mean, I was the worst because towards the end it was it was it was morning drinking, it was the first thing in the morning because I knew that was I mean, obviously I was going into withdrawal at that point, so that was the only thing that would make me feel better, and that is that's that's how bad it got, you know. And it was I'd need to drink a certain amount of vodka before I could even function. And from the outset, you wouldn't even know I was drunk, and I wasn't drunk, but I needed like at least a half litre of vodka to settle me, and then I could do things like have some food or or or walk up to the shop to get more booze, and it was just you know, and that's that's where it leads, but that's not that's not the glamorous kind of vision that they put on all the the adverts and things like that, and it's like it's still being advertised.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

I mean, I'm sure up in Glasgow you go into your supermarkets and it's floor-to-ceiling booze boxes and all pretty and glamorous, and uh you're really missing out if you're not having one of these, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Yeah, yeah. I heard this old couple um yesterday, in fact, and they were saying, Oh, I see that they've put Bailey's up again or something, and she said, Oh, it was£10 the other day, and now it's£14. So they probably do that, they probably like put it as£10 at the beginning in December, and then you know, steadily it goes up. Because people go in and they'll buy their bottle of Bailey's for Christmas, but they'll probably have drank it by now, and then it's like, oh, it's£14, and then it's£18. So yeah, it's makes me mad. Oh, it makes me mad, but you know, all we can do is keep banging the banging the drum, Nikki. So do people do you do your sober sober coaching online or is it in person or a bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 51:04

I do it online.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, and where can people where can people find you online? What's the name of your website and your Instagram? I'll put it all I'll put all your details in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Okay, perfect. Um, so it's Mommy is sober, my Instagram handle. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that, I love that. And then and then your website have you got a web, you've got a website, haven't you? What's that?

SPEAKER_01 51:30

So on my Instagram handle, my website is there in my bio as well.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool. Okay. And uh do you have any recommendations of like a podcast, uh book, or a film with to do with recovery?

SPEAKER_01 51:49

I like the um The Naked Mind.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That's a good book.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

I love that one. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Um I'm more I'm more an in-person kind of person than podcasts and and books and stuff. Um a really good book that I've actually just read is called The Surrender Experiments. I don't know if you've heard of it.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

I haven't, no, no. Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

It's all like it's yeah, it's all about um learning to live in in surrender without trying to control everything. Because I know for myself I I liked to be in control of everything in my life because it made me feel safe inside, but it was absolutely exhausting. So really learning to surrender and allow life just to unfold as it's supposed to be, you know, is uh comes with great relief.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

It does, it's like those things where you know I hear people and they're like, Oh my god, this has happened, and I'm like, Well, like, let's let's look at it. Can you do anything to change the outcome of that thing that you're stressing about? And they're like, No. And I'm like, Well, don't worry about it. You know, I know that sounds very blasé and like you know, hippie-like, but it's like if you can't you can't have any impact on the ch the outcome of that thing that you're worrying about, it's like, well, don't worry about it, you know. Only worry about the things that are in your here and now and your capabilities of changing it. And I don't know if it's covered in that book, but that's that's something that I've I used to always kind of be like panicking and worrying about all sorts of stuff, and it was like, Well, I can't do anything about it, so why am I stressing about it?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

You know, exactly, it'll work out if we just step out of our own way, everything will work out. There's a plan for us already.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Yeah, absolutely. The universe provides, the universe provides exactly. Exactly. I mean, my plan was rubbish to begin with. It was just like it was like, oh, you know, live fast, die young, you know, live for today, and tomorrow I'll deal with it. It was like, nah, man, you know, I've you know, I've got such a good life now, and all I did was give up one thing, and it's you know, it's insane. Um, but you know, little by little we I think we're getting through to people, but you know, I'm not saying everyone needs to stop drinking, I'm just saying, like, you know, just just just try and live life without it because there's a lot of people that are still they use it as a tool for not just coping with life, but just a tool for getting getting not getting through the day, but you know, like I had a problem with just being on my own without any distractions, you know. We're we're so used to having our phones and scrolling and watching stuff and having something on in the background to just be without any distractions is a really tough thing to do. And I was you know, I would I would hate just being on my own and doing my own thing, so I would just be drinking, you know. Any time I had when I was with my ex, if I had any free time, if they were out and gone somewhere, it was like I'd be looking forward to it for days. Not because they were out of the house, you know, I loved them, but it was because I knew that I would just be able to drink without any judgment or or or bother, you know. But it was like it was a horrible time because I would drink to oblivion within the first couple of hours and then you know not remember any of the time, you know. Whereas now I'm like I like I like I enjoy time on my own, like I love my family around me, but when I have time on my own, it's like I I like to just be without any distractions. You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

I used to I was the same when when you said that, you know, I used to hate being on my own. I I've I almost feared it.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Like sitting sitting in stillness on my own, like what is gonna come up, you know, what's gonna come out of here? It was awful, and now I crave it. I love being on my own.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Yeah, just to be able to sit, read a book, or you know, I mean I do watch stuff, you know, but it's not like we don't have a TV. I think my problem was in the past, like when I moved into the cottage over here when I first got sober, I had a TV and it wasn't hooked up to the aerial, so I couldn't just turn it on and you know flick through the channels. I'd have to watch like Netflix or other streaming providers, but I eventually, because I was trying to write a book and I was trying to do other stuff with my recovery, and I eventually just stuck it on Facebook Marketplace. I was like, I don't want a TV in my living room, so I just I got rid of it. Like I've still got a laptop and I watched that, but yeah, I was it was the it's the worst distraction ever to just come in and put the TV on and then that's you for the night, you know. We we don't we don't have that. We've got ways of watching films, but we don't just come in and put the telly on because it's a huge um kind of distraction. Um Nikki, do you regret getting sober?

SPEAKER_01 56:46

No, good gosh, no, definitely not. I don't know if if I didn't get sober, I'm I'm I'm I I fear that I might not even be here. So I am very, very grateful to be here and be sober and be alive, you know, just living my life, feeling everything and feeling everything makes me feel alive, you know. Yeah, so no, I'm exactly the same.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

And I like I always say to people, Oh, if I hadn't quit drinking, I probably wouldn't be here. But actually, you know, five five and a bit years ago, if I hadn't given drinking, given up drinking, I I don't think I'd be gone now, but I'd be in a very, very horrible, unhealthy, probably, probably on the streets because my family were ready to give up to me. Because it's that's the thing with alcohol, it's not a quick killer, you know, it does take its time and it's like this horrible, horrible, slow, just ridiculously horrible death that that that's enough with that.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

It's evil, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

So, you know, I'm so glad that I'm you know living my best life and and and not not partaking in uh boozing anymore. Um what advice would you give to anyone that was kind of you know early stages recovery or or sober curious?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Wake up every single morning and put yourself first and pour love into yourself every day. Because if you love yourself, that love is gonna overflow into every other area of your life, and it'll do that automatically.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

I I love that, Nikki. That's that's a great, great way to end it. Thank you so much for for coming on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you and and hearing your story. And you know, I I really appreciate your sobriety and all that you're doing for for women and your sober coaching as well. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Thank you, and thank you for thinking of me and for inviting me.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Oh no, without without a doubt, you've got an you've got an amazing account, and and as I say, I'll put all your details in the description of the podcast. So hopefully, you know, um people will be reaching out to you as well to get some of your uh nervous system recovery work as well. I love that. Love that. I'm gonna look into that as well. But thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Thank you, Jimmy.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Cheers, Nikki. Speak to you soon. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Okay, chat soon. Bye.