The Green Machine's Queer Frontier

Attention!

The dust has settled on Netflix's limited series, Boots, and it's time for a full After-Action Review. This week, we're committed to deep diving into The Green Machines tactical debrief of the maneuvers that worked, the ones that went AWOL, and the moments that left us stuck in the trenches.

We're analyzing the queer frontier right before the peak of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, with veteran precision - separating the strategic victories from the total cluster-fights. 

Whether you marched through the series in one sitting or you're still cleaning the grit out of your gear, fall in and join the conversation - it's time to chat and yap about it!

*Extra music this episode: Elevator to Heaven by Aaron Paul Low via Upbeat

Distribution: Buzzsprout

Editing and Production: Riverside.FM Studios

Music: "Good Things Take Time" by Otto.mp3 and Upbeat

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Attention on deck.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I swear, if you ever wake me up like that, I will Jeffrey Dahmer you.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Not Jeffrey Dahmer. Am I making you feel sick?

SPEAKER_03 0:19

You heard what I said.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Well, I've learned my lesson with the physical violence before. So I mean, nothing would surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Good. So we get to talk about the uh gayest boot camp today.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah. Yes. Yay. Um, so today we are serving Face and Country. While recapping Netflix's limited series, shut the fuck up. While we recap Netflix's limited series boots. Also, I don't know if you knew, but this is actually based off of a real life experiences of Sergeant Greg Cope White. Did you know that this was actually a book adaption?

SPEAKER_03 0:58

No and yes.

unknown 1:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Called the Pink Marine, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

It is called the Pink Marine. Um, now, I guess fair warning, if people have actually read the book, then you are going to notice that the book is more of a comedy relief. I guess Greg has said that the thing that got him through boot camp was actually his humor. So, book is more comedy versus what we're gonna talk about today. Well, the show lacks comedy. It's more not that.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

No deadass. Because the show is pretty dramatic, but also very good. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's time to chat and yap about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

They say the uniform is supposed to make everyone look the same. But as we saw on Netflix's boots, the green machine can't hide who you really are. Today we're lacing up in diving deep into the grit, the glory, and the gay reality of life in the Marine Corps, just as the don't ask, don't tell policy was going into effect. It's time to recap the season that changed the way that we view the service. And fair warning, spoilers are marching ahead. So it's I hey, you know me. I love a good punny. Pony bitch. A punny bitch. Um so this is a show that I personally watched a couple months ago with my boyfriend who is active and serves in not the Marine Corps, but in the Army Army reserves. Yeah. No, no, no. I was I was getting there.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

You said my side man is This is basically my man. This is literally. I love when he when you come into do these recording sessions with me, and he sees you and he goes, What's up, handsome?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

And I reply with, hi Ben, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

It's just the gay love. It's just casual. It's so casual. So again, watched this a couple months ago, and you said we were kind of like brainstorming, what are we gonna chat y'all about? And you say, You want to know what we should talk about? Boots, and I said, Oh man, that'd be a good one. Um when did you actually watch the show?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Um, I wanna say it was around Valentine's Day. Like recently, like recently. Very recently.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

And what was like your initial, I guess, reaction to the show.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Um, I mean I liked it. It was like it was kind of like a fresh tank on like kids who are signing up into the military, and it's like completely like different culture shock almost because the drill instructors are like fucking screaming at you, get your shit and get off the bus. And yeah. I was like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yeah, and I of course, you know, when I I'm watching this with him, I said, How accurate is this? I was like, Is this played up? He goes, Well, everything in Hollywood's played up, but 90% of what happened there i it a hundred percent that is what I went through because he went away when he was 17. His parents signed away his rights, their rights to him, and he went to basic. So kind of similar to the main character of the show, Cameron Cope, who is the protagonist, obviously. Again, this is based off of a book of real life experience of Greg Cope.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Excuse me. Well, at least we're not coughing.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Not yet.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

But, anyways, child.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Um, so I'm gonna punch you in the dick.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

I'm so sorry. Continue. Cameron Cope.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Cameron Cope. Uh obviously the name was changed a little bit because Greg Cope White is this protagonist in his real life story. So Cameron Cope um is kind of like a fish out of the water. He's very scrawny. This is based in 1990. What it is, I mean, gay people were obviously very much around. It was more kind of accepted on the outer side of things, but not really.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

But when it came to the military, you absolutely cannot be gay.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

You could not be gay, which was obviously a big problem. Which is crazy, but it's just the way the world was back then. Um he obviously is struggling to hide that sexuality and trying to pro prove that he belongs in this hyper-masculine world. Uh going kind of right into the don't ask, don't tell era. So that is a big thing that he struggles with. The only reason why he honestly got there was because of his best friend, which is Ray McAfee.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Ray McAfee is like the golden boy, he comes from a military family. He's always out to prove to his dad that he he is he needs to be the perfect Marine.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Exactly. Yeah. Um, there are some other characters that kind of fall in line as the show goes on, one of which is a guy named Joshua Jones. To me, he's more of like the mentor. He's older, but he's also kind of cynical. Um He is also a gay man that is hiding his sexuality. And he straight up lets the well, I guess he straight up lets Cameron know, hey, this system is not meant for guys like you and me. At all.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

I'm currently googling a character because I don't recognize his name, but as soon as I see his face, it's you're gonna see his face and be like, oh yeah, that hot guy. Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

That guy with the butt.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Is he just gonna come up with a porn? That guy. Oh yeah, this guy. Okay, I gotcha. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know his name.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

I just need to start putting pictures.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

This is why we need to make a visual.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

We do need to make a visual. I'm gonna make a visual board on top of an outline every time we do.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah, just for you love. Again, I see him as like a mentor to Cameron to be like, hey, I know you're fucking gay. It's written all over you. Guess what? I'm gay too.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

And Cameron doesn't come off as gay though.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

You don't think so?

SPEAKER_03 7:09

No, I don't see it. I mean, obviously he gives like twink vibes, but like you can't explain that term to people. What?

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Twink.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Cameron Cope.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

For people who maybe have not seen the show or don't know the gay lingo.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Okay, the gay lingo, a twink is a guy, usually scrawny, uh, pale skin.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Usually well, not necessarily white, but uh very scrawny, skinny build, no ass, usually has a big dick, but most of the time is a bottom.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I think that's a that's a pretty generalized condensed uh definition of what a twink of what a twink is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Okay. So now that we kind of know that, that is what Cameron looks like. Um Joshua, on the other hand, that's why I I look at him even when they buzz his head.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

I'm like, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

You still you still who you are. I see it. Joshua Jones, on the other hand, I would not have assumed that he was a gay guy. No, not at all. He's very much more masculine. He's not he's not bear. He's like otter. Kinda. You gotta look at his face again, huh?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

I gotta look at the body.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Oh, okay. Yeah. He's built.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

He okay, hold on. He's not like showing me pictures of boots, bitch. Can you fucking not?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Look look him up.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

I'm going to in two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

I guess I can explain that those lingos. So a bear is uh a gay man who is He's a beefy dude.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

He's a beefy dude. He's hairy.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

He's like mountain man.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

He's a mountain man.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Yeah. And otter is a guy kind of like in between a twink and a bear. He's like your average Joe.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

So, I mean, there's that.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

I don't know if he like what would you put him in?

SPEAKER_02 9:08

If you had only those three categories, what would you put him in? That's why I say otter.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

I think he's a twonk.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I fucking hate you.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

A twon is a combination of a twink and a hunk. No hair. But he's built.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

But he's built. He works out. He's got a butt.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

You guys are just learning all the gay lingo today. And you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

You're very welcome. We were supposed to just tell you military lingo. Well.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

We're gonna get into that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Okay, so we have Twonk Jones. Uh, another character. Twonk Jones.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Oh no, I love that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Then we have a guy whose name is Ochoa. He is definitely the heart of the show.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Do you know what's crazy? He is flying high on my radar.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

You know what? I thought so too.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Yeah, I could see it.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I could see it.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Like he talks about his wife a lot, his pregnant wife. Spoilers. I guess it's not really a spoiler.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Uh well, I already warned them, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Um, he has a pregnant wife, but he I don't know if it's just like his personality or if it's like he's just a sensitive guy. He's a sensitive guy.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

And I could I was when I first watched the show, I was like, I hope we love the duck the duck noise. That's our designated F word.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

F slur.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

F slur.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

If you don't know, now you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah. For anyone who was like listening to the spooky episode we did, you're like, what the fuck are they saying? That is what we're saying.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

The F slur. The F slur.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

It's my favorite word, as we already previously discussed. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Um, so again, he's earnest. He's actually pretty deeply religious. He's very emotional, very much in touch with that side of himself, which is kind of like I can only imagine how hard that is being that type of person, and then going into this very overly masculine, rough environment. Right. Where you're just no emotion, yeah, you're just like deprived of the things that you like. Right. Um, again, like I said, this was a fair warning in the beginning that spoilers were marching ahead. Um, Ochoa does end up passing away in this show, and I feel like that is the emotional reset you need for the show, and that's where it kind of takes a turn. Turning as well is Sergeant Sullivan. He is a junior DI, uh, drill instructor. He's very intense, he's volatile, he is also closeted. Uh, that is the big complex twist, and he makes him a very complex character because of his rank and what he does. I labeled this as a tragic villain because you you know he's the antagonist, but you feel bad for him to be the antagonist.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Because he has to be the antagonist. Yeah. Right. But mama, can I just can I just say something?

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Go. I already know what you're gonna say, girl. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Sergeant Sullivan.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

And he's a redhead. Mama.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Mary.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Mary. Johnny, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Um, I think the things that I would let this man do to me.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

You would just let this man fuck you up and down.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

He could beat the shit out of me. I'd say thank you.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Thank you, Sarge. No, I can't say You're not drunk enough yet.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

I'm buzzing.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Oh, are you buzzing? Hell yeah, modello.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Do you do you think he is hot? No, I do. I do. No. Uh and his big ass blue eyes, too.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah. Man. Take him to Pound Pound.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

That man is so fine.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

He's very attractive guy. Um he but then again, he is a guy. If I saw him on the street, wouldn't it think he's gay? No. And I think that's that goes in his favor, I think, a lot.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

But I think it also is the biggest tragedy to him.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Do you remember like in the first episode where he is introduced as their new instructor?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

And he immediately walks to cope.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

He like spots him out and goes.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

You f you fat. And I was like, not him clocking his tea. From the jump. Are you projecting, sir?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Oh, so you clocked it in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

I clocked it in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Oh shit. I just thought he was an asshole.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

No, no. I was like, this man's gay.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

You said the tension.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

So yeah, makes him a very complex character. Makes him a very sad character to watch as as the the season goes on. Which well, we will talk about. Um, there's also some like honorable mentions. There's a lot of characters in this show that had like versus like Heat Arrival when we went back and we were recapped that Stranger Things, we recapped that. You kind of had, I mean, there are a lot of characters, but it was easy to condense that.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

There's not it, there is no easy way to condense this.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Yeah, because a lot of the characters are like they're interchangeable or there's like shit. The one that um oh my god, what's his name? The one that got kicked out because he was doing racial slurs against uh McAfee.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Oh, uh Sergeant Knox?

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yes, Knox.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Sergeant Knox. Again, this is the 90s, and drill instructors are typically supposed to be cold. They're supposed to what they say is take boys and turn them into men. Turn them into killers. They say their favorite word is kill. And the Marine Corps, what's your favorite word? Kill. That's your goal.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a difference between being verbally abusive and then just being a fucking dick. And then just punching the shit out of this out of McAfee because he's of Asian descent. I was like, he's Asian American. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah. But again, we're in the 90s. So there's a lot of things that I don't know. People get away with back then that if they were to do that now, like I mean, he still got fired. Sergeant Knox still got fired and was sent to another platoon.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

But nonetheless, like, is it acceptable? Absolutely not. Do you like this um group chat I have with my girlfriends?

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Hardcore anal society is absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

A H S.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

I didn't even see that. Yeah. I just saw anal.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

You said, ooh, I want to be in that one.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Anal.

unknown 15:50

Fun.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Um, but yeah, uh, so there's that guy. Uh staff Sergeant McKinnon. He is the main drill instructor. Uh Sergeant Miller is the third guy because you got the staff, the senior basically. Then you have Sergeant Sullivan, he's a junior, and then you have that your third, your third wing guy, which is Sergeant Miller. Santos is a guy who comes in um episode two, three, and he's been recycled through a couple of times. He's an older guy. He keeps failing out of basic because he has a bum knee. So he's been there for like six months. Basic is only like uh six weeks. He's the Dominican guy. Oh, you're gonna look him up either way. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Um I'm just gonna fucking I'm just gonna look at it.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Just pull up the whole cast.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Um there are the twins. There are twin brothers who join uh Cody and John. You get a lot of their backstory as well. Pull up, he is a guy who was told to choose the Marine Corp or choose prison, and of course he chose the Marine Corp.

unknown 17:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Um, and so on, etc. etc. etc. So those are some honorable mentions that I think we'll mention probably a couple times throughout this this episode, just to kind of keep that in. Now, we've mentioned a couple of lingo terms. Obviously, they were more gay, gay lingo terms. But now we're gonna get more into like to the military side. If you don't know anyone who has served in the military, these may be new terms. Or if you know, then you know. Obviously, the first one that is the most relevant to the show.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Don't ask, don't tell.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Don't ask, don't tell. Don't ask, don't tell, otherwise known as D A D T. Uh, from '94 to 2011, it was a prohibited policy, prohibited for openly gay, so LGBTQIA plus individuals to join any branch of the military. 2011? Very recently.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Damn.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

That's crazy. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Um, there's also a term that is called the buddy system. So it's the reason why Cam even goes to Pacif uh Paris Island in South Carolina with uh Ray. Because Ray says, hey, there's this thing called the buddy system. We can join together and go through basic and then we will get stationed together. So we'll always be together. Okay, cool. The buddy system actually allows up to five friends to enlist, attend BCT or AIT, which is just your basic boot camp, and receive the same station orders for the first year of your service. So kind of a cool concept. It's obviously to get people to join and enlist.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Does that actually wasn't there something in the show saying that even if you joined with a buddy that you could still get separated after basic?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Like is that I think after the first year.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

I because trust me, when I was doing like the research that on the back part of this, I I asked my boyfriend, I said, I need to not sound like a fuck ass idiot, so I needed to fact-check my my research, and he he did confirm that.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

That is something that is used you can still do to this day.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yep. Um in the Marine Corps. Maybe you guys have seen the early 2000 film called Jar Head, has Jake Gyllenhaal in it. Very handsome guy in that movie. That is a term they use in the Marine Corp. So that actually originates back to World War II. It refers to the high and tight haircut because it makes them look like mason jars. I was waiting for you to laugh at that.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

I was actually giggling at it while you were talking about uh the uh the buddy system. I was reading it and I was like, oh yeah, they do look like jar heads.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

I mean since it used to be like a derogatory thing where they get like very pissed off about it. But now they're like, fuck yeah, I'm a jarhead. No, fuck you guys. Could you imagine shaving your head?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Fuck you, Navy, fuck you, Air Force, fuck you, Army, Marine Corps, like we're that we're those fucking guys.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Could you imagine shaving your head? I guess girls don't have to do that, dude.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

No, they don't, but they there is a code. You have to have your hair cut to a certain length.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Oh, really? As a as a girl, I think in the Navy, I think shoulder they have like their their hair's like slick back, it's the brun, the buttons perfect.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Shit like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, and that's all in regulation. It's like I hate every time my boyfriend has to go to drill. Uh he goes once a month because he can't have facial hair. So he has to shave all his fucking facial hair. He can't he what's regulated is like a thin stash and it can't go past like the outer part of your lip.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Tattoos have to be covered. Every every branch is different, right? But more so less. Yeah. It's all of the regulation.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Do you know what that reminds me of?

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

It sounds like quidrip. Being a quit trip employee.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

It's like being in the military branches.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

That's crazy. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah. Oh, it's a whole thing, girl.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

So quidroop is the military. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Got it. Good thing you didn't read list there. Yeah. Um, couple more terms. There's something called the barracks. These are kind of more terms you might know. Barracks is your living, commodores, chow is food or the diner hall. So if you were to eat MRT, MREs, excuse me, MREs is considered chow. Going to get food and sit down is the chow hall, etc. Combination of Valor is an award for bravery, heroism, or faced danger in close combat. So that and a silver star is the third highest decoration of Valor. Those are two things that Sergeant Sullivan has underneath his belt. He has seen shit. He's killed people. He's very he involved. Body's ruthless aggression, which again is great to hide his sexuality, but plays against him because of that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Um he can't be who he is.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

He can't be who he is. He was stationed in Guam before going to South Carolina.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

No, no, we will. We will, girl. Um, going from Guam to South Carolina. So when they bring him in after Sergeant Knox gets fired for the derogatory terms he used against McCaffee, um, they're like, man, who is this guy? And so they're asking like their commanding officer, who is a female in this show? Fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah, that was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Back then, was not a female.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

She looks scary too.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

She looks like a bad bitch.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah. Yeah. She'd fuck your shit up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Again, back then, not really happening. In today's date, very much so. I mean, the person who my boyfriend goes to or has to, you know, give posts to or whatever. Uh that's probably not the right term, but whatever. Uh, is a female. So uh very cool, very cool. And so they're like, ma'am, who is this guy? And she goes, What's it to you? He he's got combination of valor, he's a silver star, he's seen combat, he's he's your fucking guy. He's a badass. He is a badass, so don't question my authority with it. And he's hot, man. And he's very hot. So there you go. That's kind of the characters and thalinko or terms that we might use when talking about the show. Okay, let's get into the nitty-gritty girl. Could you physically do it?

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Uh I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I'm gonna beat your fucking ass. I'm gonna beat your ass, bro.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

It's the modello. I can't help it.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

We're gonna take a break.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yes, let's take a break. Hi, hello.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

I got him whipped in the shape, and he's got another beer, so we're good to go.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

She physically assaulted me and she said, get your shit together.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

And you're gonna get your shit together, aren't you not?

SPEAKER_03 24:36

I like how you didn't deny it. Anyways, let's continue.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

We're gonna continue. Okay, so question of the hour, and it's something that I genuinely wanted to ask you. And I didn't want to ask you prior to like our pre-production of this. Sure. I wanted an authentic answer. Could you, after watching the show, knowing what it entails, could you physically and mentally go through six weeks of boot camp? Honestly.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

I think I could do the mental part. I could probably just block it out. Um, but physically, I'm a fat bitch, so no. If I was skinny and maybe like a little mus muscular that's a hard word for Elmo. I'm almost gonna punch you in the face.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Violent Elmo.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Don't fuck with Elmo.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Don't fuck with Elmo.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

But yeah, no, I think I think the physical part, eventually, like it would suck at first, but you'd get used to it eventually.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

But the mental part. I think my problem would probably be talking back.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Or laughing.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Or laughing. Because I wouldn't take it seriously.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

No. Then you'd probably get the shit be out of you.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Probably. Probably. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Um honestly, because I know me know myself pretty well, I probably feel like I'd be the exact opposite. I feel like the physical stuff I could do. I may not look it, but I have a lot of muscle and I'm pretty well-rounded in my muscle groups.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Um, I don't mind running, I don't mind climbing, jumping. The slide of life, do you remember that where they had to use the rope to slide from one beam to the other in the low?

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Yeah, no girl, I'd fall in the water immediately.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I feel like I could do things like that if I put my mental out of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yeah. Um you just kind of like tune out.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Tune out what I'm actually doing.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Um, fight or flight, basically.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Uh sink or swim. Again, I'm a good swimmer, so the water, the the the thing of feeling like you're drowning does not affect me because I know how to control my breathing. Um the gas chamber that mund might give me.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Oh, with the tear gas? The tear gas gas chamber.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Um, I knew a girl, I don't know if you knew her. She was a grade above us. She, kind of similar to my boyfriend, had her dad sign away his rights, and she went to Texas. Um who is it? Her name was Oh, Madison? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yeah, I know her. Okay, okay, perfect. I have her on Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

She's she's in like fucking Switzerland or some shit.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

She was. Um, she and that was what I she was such a badass. I really enjoyed her and her company all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah, I remember um I remember her, I think we had a chemistry class together when she was a senior and I was a junior. I don't remember. But she seemed cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah. Very cool girl.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

I actually haven't seen her a lot.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Um let's see if this vision matters.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

So when she came back her senior year after doing basic, she her?

SPEAKER_04 28:03

Yes. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Um she let us know kind of like what boot camp until, which of course I know sucked because it was the heat of the summer down in Texas. I don't remember what base she went to. I know it was not Fort Hood.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

She was she was Air Force, wasn't she? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Yeah, okay, so I thought um so she was that was one story that she told us where I was like, oh, I don't think I could do that. They didn't where she went and did her basic training at, they never got milk. Water, that's it. For chow hall. That certain morning when they woke up, they were given an option of milk. Well, she's pretty intuitive, and so she's like, I don't fucking trust that. I don't know what we're doing today. I know I can't. I don't want to put myself in a weird situation.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

And it's hot outside. I don't want to fucking throw up pro milk. Right. Well, it was gas chamber today.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

So you what what you do, of course, if you've seen the show, it's just like this. Um, my boyfriend had to go through the gas chamber. It's typical. And so you go in with masks, they tell you how to breathe in the mask, and then they say, now take it off. And they tear gas and gas you in this chamber.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

To show you, hey, this is what it's gonna feel like. This is how you're supposed to get through it.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

And she said that everyone who drank milk that morning was throwing up that curdled milk inside the gas chamber.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Good thing she chose the water.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

I'm telling you, smart girl, yeah. She ended up obviously going through basics. She came back, obviously, because she had classes with you, she had classes with me.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

She never wanted to be stationed here in the United States. She went over to Switzerland.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Um, Italy, which I think is where she met her now husband, and she got a career, obviously using military uh college funding money. And they live happily, I think, outside of the country now. God must be nice. I'm telling you. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

So shout out.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Shout out, Maddie. Um, we're gonna well, we can't really say your name, but we can say your first name, and you know if you're listening who you are, and we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Thank you. Thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Thanks, guru.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Um, so yeah, thanks, guru. So physically, the only thing I think that would get me would be the gas chamber. Mentally, again, I'm the exact opposite. I feel like the mental deprivation, the yelling, the root awakenings, the rage baiting, the name calling, I don't know if I could do that because I know me, and I would I would actually probably want to hit someone for 100% yelling in my face.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

I don't I don't tolerate. I tolerate a lot. I won't I will not tolerate that.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Probably take it up a little bit, like a notch.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

More than what I've ever been used to. Yeah. Because I've had people call me like bitch cunt to my face, and I'm like, period, and yeah, that was me.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

And what about it?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

And what about it, bitch?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

I love you, bitch.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

I love you, bitch. I'm never gonna stop loving you bitch. Oh, but yeah, that was the question I wanted to ask. And so I think that's I kind of figured that's what you would say, but it um I feel like the mental would be fine.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

I mean, it would be shell-shocking at first, but knowing me, I'd just probably just start laughing. Be like, fuck you. Literally, get fucking wrecked, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

You probably would be like Cameron because I think that's how he made it through, was just the the big disassociation because he was not strong. He was not the strongest physically. No, no, but mentally he persevered quite a bit.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah, because you just tuned it out.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Yeah. Right. So I could see that for you.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Um, okay, now here's the the like latter part of that question. So if that's generalized now, that's still what you would say. Now, let's take it back to before we were born to 1990, before don't ask, don't tell. You're still gay. Could you do it back then?

SPEAKER_03 32:07

I wouldn't do it in general. Because I wouldn't make it because I sound gay. I can't.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

No, but you have a straight man voice.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Girl, don't play with me.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Have you listened to our podcast?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I have, but I've also known you for half your life. And you do it, and I've always joked with you about it. When you meet someone new, like when you met Oh, I'm code switch. You co you code switch a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

You come off because no matter because you're not, you know, feminine, you're not flamboyant.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

No, I'm very masculine gay.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

You're a very masculine gay. So I think because you you harbor that when you meet people new, it's almost like a defense mechanism.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

I don't even think about it. I just do it. You just do it out of habit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Um, so it's almost like a defense mechanism out of habit. I don't feel safe right now. I don't know if I can trust this person. Your wall goes up. So what goes up? You're straight. I call it your straight man voice.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

No, it is.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

And you're you're very dominant.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Again, that's why when we travel and we do stuff together.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

I always tell people, like if I do meet new people, I will tell them that um I'm the straightest gay man you will ever meet in your fucking life.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Yes. Snaps for it. Because that's what I tell people.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

When people ask, you know, how, why I said he is the straightest gay man you will ever meet in your life because he harvers a lot of like straight man energy. Yeah. You do some straight man shit where I'm like, oh my god. Yeah. You're doing shit that like my boyfriend would do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

But you're also Okay. Well, dun dun.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Uh I wonder why I feel like every time I say that word, you just get really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

I don't, I don't. I think I get uncomfortable for our viewers if anyone feels some type of way about that.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Obviously, like put that on the episode.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Duck noise. That's why it's a duct took.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

No, that's why we didn't. YOMO can use a big word.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

You see that cup over there? Bend over.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

You're gonna mollywap me with it.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

No, bend over.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yes.

unknown 34:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Oh. See, there's that fucking straight man energy right there.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Submissive Ashley. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay. So you answer that question. I could have guessed that. I probably would say the same thing. Back then, maybe I'm just a pussy. I don't know. Back then, like things were again, I say it a lot. Things were different.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

It's different, yeah. Compared to now.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Definitely compared to now. I mean, even so my boyfriend has been in the service since he was 17. He turns 30 this year, adds attract, do whatever you need to. Even he says so much has changed in his time in the service. Sure. That he almost makes fun of some of some of the new things that come through. Just because it it's just even from that time.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

That was a weak burp.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

That's why the our mics got moved away.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

I know, which is rude. Christ alive, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Okay, so now that we're done chatting and yapping about ourselves, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Girl, we've been getting into it.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

I'm telling you. Okay, so this whole show was extremely hard to pre-product.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Just because, again, it's not like the ones we've done in the past, the two recaps. Um, it's a lot more dynamic. It has so much meat to it that it was just hard to do. So I think the best way to go about it is to just list off some of our, you know, best moments and our worst moments. Are you hot? Are your titties sweating? Go ahead and say it.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

My titties are sweating.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

We're gonna make that an audio and just use it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

I feel like I should just start saying it every episode.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Because your titties are always sweating.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Or we switch up the body parts and start saying different things.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

What else is sweating?

SPEAKER_03 36:31

No, that's for next episode.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Oh, okay. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Stay tuned. If you want to hear what body part is sweating.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Of Brandon's, not of mine.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Just me.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Just you. Um, okay. Do you want me to go first? For best moments? We'll just do best moments first. Okay. Um, I got a couple. I think I got like five best moments of the show. Um, and I kind of like this because at least if people do want to watch it, if they haven't seen and they're listening, they're gonna be like, okay. I they didn't spoil everything for me. You know what I mean? As the show goes on, obviously you get a lot of character development with Cameron, and you go from seeing this.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Oh god. I did tell you what was gonna happen.

unknown 37:18

God.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

You fucking rat.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

I'm sorry. I love burping, and I'm a child. Continue.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Not to cry. Literally crying. I hate you.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

No, you don't. You love me.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

I do, but god damn it.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

So Cameron's realization.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Yes, okay. So I gotta get back on track. Fuck you. Um, obviously, as the character develops, you see the realization from going again. I kind of described him as a fish out of water. Well, that fish is a fucking shark. And he he ends up not only realizing what he's worth, how much of it he is worth, but that no matter if you're gay, straight, bi, black, white, Asian, polka dotted, you are allowed to huh. You just ruined. That was a really good moment.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

No, go ahead, go ahead. I'll ask after. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

You are allowed to take up space anywhere, and that does include the military. Right. Um, so I loved that. Another part is that there are twins, John and Cody. So Cody is the bigger twin.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Yeah, he's built.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

He's built.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

He's an asshole.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

He's an asshole.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

And they had a really rough childhood with their dad. He was hard on both of them, but in different ways. Right. Cody, he was hard on to be physically athletic, to be physically capable. John, he was always a bigger kid.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

So he was bullied, I'm guessing, in school and at home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

No. For being by his brother and his dad.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, for being bigger. They call him like fat, you'll never amount to anything, blah blah blah, etc. etc. So as the season goes on, the thing that I thought was a really good moment was getting to rise above that. And John ended up overcoming Cody.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

And he makes it through boot camp and he makes it to the very end, and he does the crucible.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Well, he gets John gets kicked out of the first platoon, but then he joins another platoon.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yeah. And goes like that.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So he finally gets from underneath that toxic trait that has been literally tied to him since birth. Love that. That was great. Another one for me, Santos. Again, I kind of mentioned that Santos is older. He cycled through boot camp a couple times. He's been away from his wife and his children for six months now. Just trying to make it through with this bum ass knee. Finally, at the very end, he gets to cross the line and he becomes a Marine and he gets his pin. Um, but what I love is that his knee does start to give out as they're marching too. And the thing is, no matter what branch you're a part of, it's a brotherhood.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

You help out your brother no matter what.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

True.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

So they actually end up doing something they're not supposed to do, and they start taking items out of his back.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

To help alleviate the weight of what he has to carry so he can make it through and finally go home. Love, love that. Another thing is with Santos, now Ochoa is also a Hispanic guy. Okay. I did mention that Ochoa does pass away in this season. Well, when you when something unexpected like that happens, rather it's an accident or whatever, and you pass away during a boot camp or even outside of boot camp, you have to give back everything. So that ends up being Cameron's job, has to take back his boots, his cap, his water thingy.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

And he actually ends up asking the guy who takes inventory. Can sir, can this recruit ask a question and says, Can I have the cap? That has Ochoa's name on the inside of it. Because it's just duct taped. I mean, they it's nothing deep where they like engrave it or whatever. Right. Um, he ends up giving it to Santos because him and Santos were pretty close.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

What I loved and made me actually cry was when they were taking the shit out of his backpack to get him across the finish line. One of those things was the cap. Ochoa's cap.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

And he ends up giving it to Santos and says, but you have to carry this.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

And he switches out his cap and puts on Ochoa's cap so he could make it through.

unknown 41:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

As a metaphor. Yeah. That he became It was really cute. Yeah, he became a Marine.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

So oh, I got goosebumps right now. That was such a powerful moment for me. Are you still hot and sweaty? I'm in Are you are you jealous?

SPEAKER_03 42:00

Yeah, give me your goosebumps.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Give me your skin.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah. Well, Edward.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Well Ed Gean ass. Um and then finally.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Wait, what'd you call him?

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Ed Geen.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Oh wait, wait. I'm getting into- I got I f- Oh my god, Elmo.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Joe's on a dick, why don't you?

SPEAKER_03 42:22

You keep calling me Elmo and I'm gonna fuck you up. This is not a threat, it is a promise.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

I love the rage bait. I love the rage bait.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Usually I like to rage bait men.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Rage baiting me like your boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I love to rage bait straight men. That's my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

You can't rage bait a gay man.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I obviously do, because it's working on you. Quit calling me out.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I'm gonna show you what Elmo can do.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

At least I don't say like the things I like to say to like. Um there's one time I said something to my boyfriend, and I said, Do you wanna want me to read off some rage bait things? And he goes, Yeah, why why not? And I said, You look like a rough draft. And then I said, You also look like you still use your fingers to count numbers. And one more thing, you look like you pee sitting down.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Would that rage bait you? Yep. Sure would.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

That man is a fucking G, though. He just took that shit.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

God. That is so hateful.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Um sitting down is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Sitting down to P, yeah. Yeah.

unknown 43:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Anyways, I have one more. Oh wait, no, no, I just stopped in again.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Okay, so you said um when you were listing off uh people's races.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

You said polka dot.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

What the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Have you never heard that?

SPEAKER_03 43:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

So like when people say, you know, it doesn't matter if you're black, white, Hispanic, Asian, purple with you know, yellow polka dots. No. Basically just insinuating that you could be any type of race. Oh, I need you know, they wouldn't give a shit. No. No, it doesn't matter. Anyways. I have one more. Um so again, this is pre D A D P uh T You can do a girl. I was about to say, like I should go D P three times in this fucking episode. So not double penetration, but do not. Do not.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Don't ask, don't tell.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Um double penetration. Fun. Fine. Sounds like a good time for the movie.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

You said actually. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

You said, ah.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Run away.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Run away, run away. Um so obviously, again, with Solovin. At the very end of the show, he ends up being consumed by this rage of I fucking hate that I can't be with the person I want to be with.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

I have to hide who I am all the time. And he ends up getting drunk at a bar. And there's something that he says in the show when he's talking to his recruits. And he says, just know that you're a fucking marine and you are trained to kill. So when you go to a fucking bar and you order a beer, you get it in a tall glass mug with a handle. So when someone comes up to you and says something that you don't like, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Kill. Because there's that one scene where he with Sullivan in the bar.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Yeah. Yeah, and that's what I'm getting to. Is he ends up taking his own advice.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Uh sorry.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

I say it under.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

It's okay. Take it, girl.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

You're welcome. Uh so ends up taking this glass mug, cracking it over a motherfucker's school. Which he deserved it. But I don't remember what the guy said, but I think it was something of like. I think it was just a jar head.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Just a jar head? I think.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Uh no, it might have been deeper than that.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

I think it was a hate crime.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

You think it was the F-word?

SPEAKER_03 46:20

I think he called him the F-word.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yeah. Which is so many ducks in this episode. I know. Oh. We have a whole squawk.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Not yet. Not yet. We're getting there. Oh, I see what you did there.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Pun.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

I'm punning.

unknown 46:41

I hate you.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Uh, but anyways, he ends up cracking the guy over the head. Yes, I think he deserved it. The only thing is, is again, he's a Marine, he's trained to kill. He put him in the hospital on a coma.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

So, and it was a very he's very well described by the people who were there. The police come to the military base, they want to take him away. Family wants to sue. It's a felony.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

No, they didn't even know who it was.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

No, but they had a good description.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Oh, that's right, because they went to the uh the commander.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

They went to her. Yeah. She had to come out.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

And she was like, I know who this bitch is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

She goes, I had your back. Why did you not trust me to have your back? And he goes, What's done is done, ma'am. And she goes, Your whole career. Because that's saying, like, if you catch something like that, everything washes away.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

And like I said earlier, he has combinations of valor, he's had a silver star, he's served his country so well.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

For him to piss it away when he could have just, you know, went for the help. Short in the story, he ends up having this like kind of heart-to-heart conversation with Cameron because Cameron wanted to be like him. Well, Cameron doesn't know that Sullivan is gay, but Sullivan knows that Cameron is gay. He's like, You don't want to be like me, I promise. Because you will hate yourself for the rest of your life. And he ends up giving the walkie to Cameron, and he ends up going AWOL. And he runs.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

Oh yeah, and the force and the that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

During the last episode of the Crucible. So he he he runs. We don't know where he went. We don't know because here's the thing, and what I hated about this show is it ends with I we've kind of talked about this with like heated rivalry. Was they in limited series with open enders for I mean, maybe we could go off this with a second season, or we could leave it how it is. This was one show that I know for a fact it has it was not renewed. No, it's not. Um, but I wish it was.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

I wish it was because I would love to know where Sullivan actually ended up going. Yeah. And if he got away, because good for him. Go live your life.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

He's just living in the forest, huh?

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Yeah, he has to. Or he went down to Mexico because he can't be in the world.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

If you know, please tell me.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Please drop a comment and let Brandon know because he will be packing his bags.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Immediately.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Leaving.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

I'm gonna go get my man.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Yeah, exactly, girl. You go get the old man. So those are my like top five best moments. Um, do you want a piggyback or do you have any like of your own that you're like, yeah, that's kind of no.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

I just added comment commentary to yours.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

Okay, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Now let's get to the worst parts, the parts that made me want to cry. Obviously, Ochoa's death.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

What? Wait, didn't we talk before we started recording about best moments? There was one, wasn't there, that I said I was gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

This is why I told you to write it down.

unknown 49:46

No.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

I got distracted. I got distracted and we were talking.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Um, I mentioned about the shaving cream, but I I know it wasn't that for you.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

That's fine. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

That's okay. It'll come later. Probably when we're talking about the saddest moments. And you're like, oh, by the way, um, obviously we gotta talk about uh Ochoa's death. Yes. Do you want to or do you want me to lead with that one?

SPEAKER_03 50:11

Um yeah, I can talk about him. Okay. Um go for it. So Ochoa. We talked about him earlier in the episode. I thought he was gay. You remember, I remember. Yes. Ashley remembers. Everybody remembers.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Everyone remembers.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Okay. Maybe not me, but uh so Ochoa. Um he I think you were talking about he was the best uh long-range shooter.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

He was the best for a challenge. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

You have to shoot at least in the show, it's like three clicks, which is the span of three football fields. And you have to hit it with accuracy. Well, he was the best long-range sniper that they had during this drill. So he was that guy.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

He was.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

So he won that challenge, and whoever won that challenge got a free phone call to a loved one, family member, whoever it is, you know. Um God, I fucking hate this scene.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

That's why I asked. You want me to say or you want to say?

SPEAKER_03 51:15

No, I'll do it. Uh so he calls his wife, his pregnant wife. Um, and in the background, you could hear her getting fucked by another man. And the look on Ochoa's face was the most devastating thing. Heartbreaking, yeah. And I think he just like he was, I don't think he like pro was processing what was happening.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Yeah, I think it took him a second. Which I mean, if I'm away, but makes sense though.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

You know, yeah. Yeah. So um. Yeah, he heard that, and then they were also gonna do a a movie, I think, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Yeah, so they were not only was Ochoa the best long-range sniper they had, but at that time their platoon was the best overall shooters at Paris Island. Right. So they were rewarded with a movie night, which they just gotta watch Ghostbusters on the rollout TV. Right. So they were doing that when he came out of um the hut, which is where the commanding officers go.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

And he comes out and you can just tell he's like extremely distraught. He sits down by his bunk, and then you have Sergeant Miller who's walking by, who's, you know, like I said, these these guys, they're trained, they're like trained assholes. They're supposed to give you shit. They're supposed to do the things, right? And so he walks by and he goes, Hey, did you uh she not pick up? Uh, you know, she's probably getting fucked by whoever.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

Whoever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Just joke, you know, just joking.

unknown 52:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Um, but he's like, it's okay, I'll let you try again later.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

And Oh, Choa lost his shit.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Like, he beat the fuck out of this man.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

He didn't beat him.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Oh, oh no, he didn't. No. No. He went off on him.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

He went off on him, he flipped his popcorn, and of course, then he gets in his face.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

That Choa, that's right, and then he says, fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Fuck you.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

Fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

And he ends up doing like burpees in jumping jacks at an accelerated rate, and he's reciting the thing that the people in the core have to recite, and maybe in other branches, I'm not sure, about your your rifle. Your rifle is your best friend, you're nothing without your rifle. Right. Blah blah blah. And it's actually freaking out, Sergeant Miller. He goes, Recruit, stop. Stop. And everyone like is looking and they're like, Oh my god, what is happening? The thing that is so tragic about this is not only was he being cheated on by someone who he like deeply loved, he always talked about his wife.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Which he had just found out, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Yeah. Um, but he never reported a medical issue that he had with his heart.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Which is a big no-no. And nor was it caught, I guess, on a physical exam.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Which is crazy because I'm pretty sure military physical exams are very thorough.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Um, yes and no.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

I mean, they report I don't know personally, so you're required to do one yearly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Um, but it's nothing like all the blood draws of anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

It's oh, I thought it'd be like very oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Not to my knowledge, it's not. Gotcha. Not not what he tells me, at least. Right. He doesn't report this issue. And he actually ends up having like a heart attack, like an aneurysm, and he drops to the ground and he ends up dying. I always say I have a broken heart. Yeah, and it just his heart just gave out.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

That or it was also like an actual heart defect where he pushed himself too hard, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Yeah. So that is one of my worst moments. I think it's the worst moment for a lot of stuff. But like I said, that was earlier when I said, you know, he does pass away, but that was the emotional reset.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Because it needed to happen, unfortunately, but that's storytelling.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Um, that was a shitty, a shitty moment. There's another shitty moment where okay, so every recruit is given like a book. Um, my boyfriend still has his book, he still writes in his book from basic.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

Oh yeah, this is a good one. This piece of shit.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Yeah. I can't remember his name.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Um, it was Dr.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Google. This guy.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Oh Nash. Okay. Nash.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

I kind of want to say like something else, and it wasn't that.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Um so Nash. I mean, everyone is is entitled to write in their in their book.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

And he just so happened to not write feelings about what was happening day to day, he decided to write stuff about his fellow recruits. Well, Polak, which is the guy who I said was given the choice of prison or the Marine Court.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

That guy is also hot. He kind of gives me. You watched The Walking Dead before, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Um, this is just a little side note. He reminds me of Shane.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

I could see that.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

I can see that.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

He could also do whatever he wanted to. If he did.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

He ends up Pollock ends up taking his diary. Diary, more so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

Journal.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Journal, diary, and reads that out loud.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

In front of the entire platoon.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Which of course says that, like when he talks about Cameron, because Cameron thought that they were really good friends. He thought he was actually making a friend outside of.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Everybody felt like that though. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Actually felt like he he was making a friend outside of the guy he joined with. Right. Because that was his only friend ever. Yeah. Well, of course, in this book, he says, Oh, Cope. He's kind of oh. I I'm Can you repeat it again? No. I just gotta bleed it out anyways.

SPEAKER_03 56:53

Just say for me. I want to hear it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

You're welcome. But and then of course it says things about everyone else, too. That was a really shitty moment because it was almost uncomfortable to watch.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

And see, I don't think it was, it was just like all the other ones were shitty, but I don't think Cope's was as shitty as the other ones. Yeah. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Yeah, a hundred percent. So like that was not a fun moment for me. Um, Sullivan's villain tragedy story. Sad. Sad because obviously, if you listen to this podcast, you know just how we are and how much we support the causes of LGBTQIA. Um, we're both in that community. Right. We love our people, we love equality for everyone. Yeah. And so the fact that he was never allowed to be who he truly was because of some fuck ass policy. Um sucked. I mentioned earlier that he was in Guam. He was stationed in Guam before. Well, he was stationed in Guam and he happened to meet a higher ranked officer, which is I was wondering if we were gonna talk about this. Yeah, I was gonna try to wait to get to to this this moment, just because it explains why it's so soft fraternizing with a higher rank officer than yourself is all is already a no-no. Right. But the fact that it was done back then and they're two men and they are gay. Um, there was something called, gosh, I'm trying to think of how they labeled it. It was when oh NCIS comes and they they labeled it as something. Uh fraternizing behavioral issue, something. That's how the NCIS labeled homosexuality.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

Well, I don't remember the name for it.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

I don't remember it either. This higher rank officer was being investigated for a whatever that is called, and they associated it with um Sergeant Sullivan, which he at this point that's when he ends up choosing his career over his love life and says that yeah, he tried to hit on me. Can you believe that? Yeah, can you believe that?

SPEAKER_03 59:09

You know, F-word guy, like fuck that.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

I'm just gonna leave, I'm gonna go back home.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

He ends up getting with the higher rank female officer, the one who brought him in, says, Hey, I need to come home. And she that's how he she pulled the string to get him to leave Guam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Which is shitty because the relationship that they that the show portrayed like it seemed really sweet and genuine and I think it was. Yeah, I think they actually had like a a connection, you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

They did, because they actually end up getting matching tattoos on their packs that say Semperfy.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Right, which is how they got caught.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

They got caught was the Semperify tattoos. Um and uh Sullivan does say something really sweet when they're in this hotel room and he goes, What do I have to do? Tattoo I love you on my other side of my body to prove that I I do love you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

And then of course it all unfolds and he ends up turning his back on the person he loved because he didn't want to risk his own self.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

So that sucked. And just and I think that just spirals. I think when he sees Cameron and then he sees Jones and how they work together, he goes, Fuck this. That's when he really starts to have that big antagonist energy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

Um really targeting Cope and Jones as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah, yeah. Um, so hated that. Last one I cover already talked about. No renewal. No renewal. We actually end the season with something that I would have actually liked to see because I don't know if Greg Cope White actually did this, but he how he because he was a writer on the show as well. He he oversaw this. Um was they ended with they all did graduate. Yeah, um, they all became Marines, they're celebrating at a bar. Well, on the screen pops up Dick Cheney and starts talking about the invasion of Qatar, which then goes into the Gulf, which then brings in Desert Storm. And that's how they leave it. I'm like, oh shit, we're gonna go to Desert Storm. We're gonna see how they function out in real life.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

No, we're not, girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

No, we're not. Oh, I was pissed. No, we're not. I was so I I told my boyfriend, I was like, how the fuck? He goes, It's how the book ends.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

He never talks about it because I don't think he's I don't think there's another there's just that one book, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Yeah, it's just the one book. That's just the pink marine. So so hated that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Do you have any other um hate for okay?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

So my girl, uh Farah Farmiga. We love her. Uh-huh. Uh her being the very distant and avoiding mother that she is in this show towards Cameron.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Yes. Oh my god. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

I don't think we ever talked about her. I love her to death as an actor, but I hated her in this show.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Yes. If you don't know who we're talking about, if you've seen the Conjuring movies, she plays uh Lorraine Warren. She plays uh Cameron Cope's mom in this series. She is the definition of a disassociated mother.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

The the type of mother who didn't want to be a mother, and you can kind of sense that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:19

I will say there are good parts and there are bad parts with her.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

So, like when she finds out, I think there was one scene where it was like or she was asking her other son. Yeah, I don't remember his name.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

I don't either. He was an asshole, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

Tubby. We'll call him Tubby.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Tubby because he was he's chunky. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

He was like, Where's your brother at? And he was like, I don't know. And then she goes to walk to the messaging machine and she sees the uh the message from this is Cameron Cope, I'm in Paris Island, blah blah blah, don't contact me. Yeah. And she was like, Oh fuck. He actually did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Because he told her I'm gonna go to the show with um with McAfee.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

And she was like, Okay, bring milk when you're done.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Yeah, like she don't was like she didn't give a fuck. No, she was too busy on the phone with her girlfriend. I think she was talking to someone, yeah, and was more interested in that conversation than hearing anything her son had to say. Yeah, fucking hated that. And then she ends up fucking his recruit officer.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Yeah. And that's what that's what I was getting to. Yeah, sorry. Um no, no, it's okay. Um, I was just saying, so that part, I love her to death. She's an amazing actress. There was one part, another part, where, like you were saying, the uh who was the the recruit officer. Yeah, he was also hot. We're getting distracted. Um the commander pulls pulls uh copin. Yes, and his mom is in there, and she was like, You fucking enlisted in the military and you're not even 18.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Because she lied about his age to get him into preschool earlier because she doesn't want to deal with him.

unknown 1:03:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

So that turns into a whole thing, and she goes, I just love you, and this isn't you, and he goes And she calls she calls him her favorite son.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

Yeah, but she doesn't even know that he fucking enlisted in boot camp.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Yeah, hello, and then went away.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:13

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Yeah, and didn't even realize that. And so she's like, I love you so much, this isn't you, and Cope, thank God, was like, This is me now. And if you love me the way you say you do, sign the paper. Sign the paper. Yeah, and she ended up signing the paper. He he got to stay because here's the thing, if she didn't sign the paper, she he would have been dumb. It would have been invalid, and he would have had to go through boot camp all over again if he chose to go down that route.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Yeah, like I said, I love her, but girl, bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Yeah, literally. So yeah, that that's that's a whole thing. Um that is a really fucked up, like worst part. Good one. Well, there was a lot of things I think that we served today. A lot of laughs, a lot of sidetracking, a lot of burps, a lot of burps, but I think the drama was the most prominent.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

Seriously, though, it was such an eye-opener for how it was for gay men and women back then. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

No, you're fine. You you're struggling a lot today, girls.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

But you want to, and the thing is that it was so hard for gay men and gay women back then, and all they wanted to do was serve a country that hated them, which is super ironic because it's still like that today.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

Fuck the politics.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

That part. So also I think we should end with this. To all of our fans who are veterans, past, present, and maybe even future, when you're listening, we are committed to thanking you for your service, for standing by your oath and serving with honor.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:43

And there's nothing technical about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

No, there's not. We also want to give special shout outs to the vets that are in our lives that constantly, day in, day out, whether it's past or present, have served to keep us safe. And that's Sergeant Jim Munoz Moreno, specialist Javier Duran. Sergeant Noah Hunt, Sergeant Victoria Brown, Staff Sergeant Britton Lawslin, Captain Dylan Ewers, and Sergeant First Class, James Jarogi.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Again, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your service. I'm Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

And I'm Ashley. And this is Committed Technically. Okay, bye-bye.