#25 - Cameron Stewart: Psychedelics, Building the Future of Mental Health and Unlocking Human Potential

What if the future of mental health isn’t about managing symptoms, and is about unlocking human potential?

In this episode of the Natural Genius podcast, Sam Bell speaks with Cameron Stewart, entrepreneur and Managing Director of Mirabilis Health, about his journey from building and exiting startups and digital product studios into the emerging field of psychedelic-assisted mental health care in Northern Ireland.

In this conversation, Cameron shares how a period of “doing nothing” and going deeply into meditation reset old patterns of thought and opened a new direction. He reflects on stepping into the highly regulated world of trauma therapy and research, and on what it takes to build a centre focused on safety, healing, and transformation.

This is an expansive conversation about growth, courage, stillness, family, human potential, and the future of mental health.

This episode explores:

• Choosing life experiences over convention and creating meaningful memories
• From startups and brand strategy into mental health innovation
• “Doing nothing” as a deliberate reset and strategic pause
• Deep meditation and the effect of stillness on old thinking patterns
• Trauma, PTSD, and the limitations of traditional approaches
• Psychedelic-assisted therapies and why they are gaining attention in research settings
• Building Mirabilis Health and the future of accessible mental health care
• Human potential, healing, and creating the right conditions for transformation
• Fatherhood, identity, and changing definitions of freedom and fun

Important note

This conversation includes discussion of psychedelic-assisted therapies, ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, and related mental health treatments. Laws, regulations, and clinical frameworks vary significantly across jurisdictions, including Ireland, Australia, and internationally. This episode is provided for general educational and informational purposes only. It is not medical advice, mental health advice, or legal advice, and it is not a recommendation to use any substance or treatment outside approved clinical, research, or other lawful settings. Anyone considering treatment should seek advice from appropriately qualified health professionals and comply with the laws and regulations in their location.

Guest links

• Cameron Stewart: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camastewart/
• Mirabilis Health: https://www.mirabilishealth.co.uk/

Chapters

02:22 The Highway One trip and choosing experience over convention
06:23 From clothing brand to startups, strategy, and exiting Dawson Andrews
09:28 “Do nothing”: the note that changed Cameron’s next chapter
10:15 Deep meditation, stillness, and resetting old thought patterns
15:24 Entering mental health and building Mirabilis Health
19:19 Trauma, PTSD, and the limits of conventional treatment models
23:24 Psychedelic-assisted therapies and early research insights
29:28 The bigger vision: expanding access and unlocking human potential
39:27 Fatherhood, freedom, and redefining fun

About Natural Genius

The Natural Genius podcast explores how people discover and express their natural strengths, instincts, and contributions.

Through conversations with leaders, thinkers, builders, and practitioners across many fields, the podcast explores the signals that guide meaningful work and the choices that shape a life.

More at https://naturalgenius.com.au

Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au

Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Violet Town and Holywood, Northern Ireland, 11 March, 2026
Produced at the Violet Town office 11 - 24 March, 2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast. We're here to help you tap into your natural genius. Let's go. One of the reasons why I've invited Cam to come and have a chat is that he knows how to enjoy life. He's a clever entrepreneur, and since last we saw each other, now a dad, and lived in Australia for a little while. I met him when he was living in Ireland, where he's from, and I'm so looking forward to hearing a little bit about Ireland and about what he's been up to and how as a dad life changes. Anyway, get ready for some fun insights and tips on life, I dare say. Enjoy hearing from Cam. Cam, it is an absolute delight to welcome you to the Natural Genius Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Thanks so much for having me, Sam.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

And it's Belfast morning and a Southeast Australian evening, as it is in these crazy time zone differences. You're starting out the day looking fresh faced, and I'm heading towards the end of the day here. So excuse me if it if I lose some of the light. Pam, I want to start out with the fact that you're so good at knowing how to live and sucking the marrow out of life. Tell me about the convertible and highway one.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Well, firstly, I love that that is the story that has stuck out of all the stories I told you.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Um as context for people that uh don't know either of us or don't know of our friendship. Uh we haven't seen each other for a while. And uh when you were living in Australia, I think it was, was last when we saw each other. And we had a very short road trip, and on that you told me this story. And yeah, the reason part of the reason it hit it stays in my mind is that it really, yeah, it really is about living life and creating memories.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Well, yeah, I mean, I love that story, and I love that you've brought it up. It's very serendipitous that that's the question that you've started with because it my life has kind of gone full circle back to that that the purpose of that trip, actually. Um, so to set the context, um Katie Katie is my wife, and we'd been married for a few years, but she was still in med school at the time. And when she graduated from medical school, we were exhausted and we just really wanted a break. And um, there was a there was a bank, I think, I don't know, I think it's like Lloyd's Bank or something, were offering uh zero percent interest for three years on a credit card that had like a 12 grand limit on it. And um we were kind of we could, you know, we kind of thought, oh, we could save up for a house deposit here and get serious, or we could fly to California and spend a month driving down highway one in a convertible. So that's what we did, and just uh absolutely maxed out that credit card, knowing that Katie had work lined up when we got back and we'd pay it off in a few years, and we did, and um and it was it was the best trip of my life, you know. I um I've got a tattoo to to market, and um, but actually the fun the really funny thing about that um trip, Sam, was that the one of the main stops on it was in was at a retreat center called Esalin in Big Sur. And I'm sure you'll have heard of it. Um and uh just this last year, about four or five months ago, um Katie, my wife, was able to visit it again. She kind of recreated it and went and visited it again. And um yeah, like for so for context for uh people that don't understand or know what I'm up to at the minute, I'm I'm working in mental health research around psychedelics, and Esalin in Big Sur was the hub of the psychedelic hippie movement in the 60s and 70s, and it inspired so much, it trained so many people, it did a lot of uh research itself. Um, and when I set off on this journey with Miravolus, um the the big goal that I set that is still there, it feels like it's still quite far away, but is to replicate a center like that here in Ireland and um create a create a retreat center that utilizes these medicines to help people heal and grow and understand their their full potential. So um yeah, it's funny that you bring that up because Esulin is on our lips all the time, you know, we're always talking about it and um you know it it feels like a big distant dream that's so out of reach at the minute, but it it also feels like it's the right goal, you know. You know, I think you when you set those goals, you just need to know where you're aiming for, you know. You you find the moon and you shoot for the moon, and you don't necessarily take a straight line there, but at least you know where you're going. Um so so yeah, but I know you're not even asking about what I'm up to right now, but um please I'm about to, so you're sensing into that well.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

So give it give context to like having done entrepreneurial things and then to um to what you're doing now. Yeah, just all that, just all last in the last, I don't know, 10 to 15 years, Ken.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, just my my entire work history. Um it's a hard one to sum up, Sam. And it it's it's hard when people ask what's your background, because my background is so eclectic. You know, I I just have kind of followed my heart my whole life. And yeah, I started off um I I decided not to go to university and I started a clothing brand and um did that for a few years, and then I got into brand strategy consultancy and did that for a long time and did some call research um and then started a tech a tech company um like a software development business, which is that's what I would have been I would have been running that when I was in Australia with you when I visited you.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

And then Katie was skateboarding to work along Manly.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah. Yeah, on our electric electric skateboard.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

If you're gonna move to if you're gonna move to Australia for a working holiday, live in Manly and skateboard to work, really. I mean, and you got you were surfing a lot too, weren't you, Cam?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

We totally lucked out on that. You know, Katie just applied to a bunch of hospitals, and that was the one that said yes. And we didn't we looked it up in the map and we were like, oh well, it's near a beach, it should be nice, but we had no idea how incredible it was, you know. Um that was some trip uh that was really amazing. So yeah, I was so so Dalton Andrews was a few years old, maybe three or four years old when I went to Sydney, and then I moved back um in like 2019, but I think it was like the start of 2019, and I was fortunate enough to be able to exit that business and and sell my shares to my co-founders. And by that time I was I was pretty exhausted. I'd done a lot of back and forth from Australia, and just starting businesses is really hard work. Um and I really, really wanted a break, so that kind of afforded me the luxury to take a break. And um, I was actually at the do lectures, which is where we originally met, and um it's funny because the do lectures is you know, even by the name, it's all about doing, and it it gathers people that do really cool things to talk about what they've done and and what they're doing. And what they're doing, and and so I'm I'm at I'm at the do lectures, and this is maybe if maybe five or six months before I exited, and I had no foresight that like that's where I was gonna go, you know. I was just kind of thinking what's what's next, what do we do next with Dawson Andrews? And um I remember flying home um from the do letters and flicking through my notebook and I had taken a whole load of notes, but on the last page on the last night, it'd just written, do nothing. Do nothing, like that was what I needed to do. And I I really felt it deep in my bones, you know, like that's actually really what you you know, that's what you're called to do right now. So um we didn't really know what that meant at the time, but obviously that that kind of it was there was a seed that was planted there, and um I think when the opportunity to leave presented itself, it was I kind of knew that that was right. And um, but obviously, you know, being someone who who is habitually doing things all the time, it's very hard to tell to tell me to do nothing. So what I did was I signed up for a meditation course, so at least I could at least I could learn how to do nothing properly, you know, it was like officially doing nothing. So that I kind of ticked that box. And for the next year I got really, really deep into meditation. And uh, you know, I had the year off and I had no work, so um, I committed to do an hour a day every day, but after a few weeks, the hour turned into two hours, which turned into three hours and four hours, and and then I just got carried away and and just got really, really deep into stillness and quietness. And it was it was like my whole career and life of of overthinking and just habitual thinking and all all the patterns that were going on in my mind. That up until that point, I did I I'd done a little bit of meditation, but it but I'd never done more than 20 minutes say. And that and I'm not just discounting at all meditating for 10 minutes or 20 minutes at the minute, that's all I can do. So I'm I need to definitely say that if all you can do is 10 minutes a day, that is incredible. But there's it there's a massive difference I find between 10, 20 minutes and an hour. And when you get to the that kind of hour point, it's kind of in the four from like 45 minutes on. I I find that you just the busyness of your mind really has done its thing, it's run its course, and there's no more busyness, and you and you've set it all down, and you've you've come back to the breath so many times that eventually you just come into this very, very deep presence. And um I just got hooked on that. So you know, it just it was like the sanctuary that I that I always wanted, and um it it really I mean it just reset a lot of things, reset a lot of old patterns and old thinking, and um and uh yeah, so so that so that was kind of unfolding um for a year, and um the the I kind of made a commitment to myself that I would not think about what's next for a year, you know. That was kind of the rule. So don't spend the year just planning what you're about to do, just like take the year off and then do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And it was incredible that's but you're so good at setting games for yourself, like creating your own games. That like those rules, they really that that sounds like really great boundaries for you. And it like generative boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I think I need it to I need like a little structure to keep me engaged without without the structure. It's I know I kind of used to think I just want total freedom and but there's there's too much chaos with that. You know, I kind of I I've heard that before from people you love setting rules. And you know, it's it's yeah, it's like organized fun. Um but but yeah, you're right, I do. I love I love to do that.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Organized fun, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Um that takes us up to like tw uh end of um 2019, it kind of mid 2020, and um then obviously like COVID happened, and the timing of that was incredible because we bought a house like the day our our house completed the day before the lock, the first lockdown happened. So we were contractually obliged to move house. So we we were we were able to and there was no problems. We had to move, and it just meant we had a a year of quiet to renovate a house and um and then it and then also a year to the date of stopping, um one of my old clients from me up, like literally on the day, and he was like, I know you said don't contact you for a year, but I'm pretty sure it's been a year. Can you do this job for me? You know, um, so like the the work just like started immediately and the provision was was incredible, and like we were kind of talking about the magic of of life, you know. I think like when you when you have the confidence or even bravery, I guess, to like step into that unknown the the world rewards you, you know, that there's it just seems to work well that way. So so that kind of happened, renovating the house for a year, and then towards the end of that year, um uh an old friend of mine who used to be my therapist contacted me and um we we kind of got back in touch again. We haven't spoken in in a few years, and uh he's he invited me to come out to his clinic and just see what he was up to. And I was interested because I had in my meditation, I thought maybe I could be a therapist, you know, maybe being a therapist would be a fun career. Um so I went to visit him and he was like, um, I think you'd be a great therapist, but I think you'd hate it. And and he kind of he said, you know, like you don't quite you probably don't understand the burden that a therapist holds, and you you're very creative and you love ideas and and you love freedom, and you don't get any of that with being a therapist. You actually you sit all day with people's heaviest stuff. And he said, Well, I think you'd be capable of that. I I just think it would ruin you. And and then he said, But can I tell you what I'm up to here at Mirabolis? And I was like, Oh yeah, okay, sure. So so Paul kind of proceeded, proceeded to get the whiteboard out and show me his grand plans for Mirabalis. And this was in his his office. And you know, if I just said picture a psychiatrist, a professor of psychiatry's office, you've you've probably already got a good idea of what it looked like, you know, just papers everywhere, books everywhere, about a hundred uncompleted projects, um, just overburdened and overworked. And um, but yet he still had this vision for for this business and which is a private mental health institute. And um, and I said, look, Paul, it it sounds great, but who's gonna do this? You know, that like you're beyond busy, like you can't do this. And he was like, Well, I was kind of hoping you might. And and I was like, Well, I don't really want the job, but I'll give I'll give you a day a week and I'll I'll kind of help you sort out your finances and your website and your customer flows, and we'll kind of get the business up and running a wee bit better, um, to take the pressure off you. And I mean, you know the story without me even telling it, like the one day turned into two days, turned into three days, and and then after a while, Paul just came to me and said, Look, I don't want you to leave, you know, I I want you to build this with me. So I went into partnership with him and um and acquired half the business, and now we're the two of us are are building it, and um and it's I mean, it's been incredible. Um I I'm conscious I've spoken a lot here, so I won't dive straight into Mirapolis, but um yeah, like what we're doing. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Okay, well that's easy, can so keep flowing.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Okay, so here's okay, okay. So well, here's the here's the context, right? So we live in in the north of Ireland, um, which is occupied by the British who came over and stole it. And if you've heard of the potato famine, the potato famine was was created by the British, and um, or sorry, not the famine itself, but the the the starvation that happened. There was plenty of food on the island, but the Brits took it all and exported it, and millions of people died, and we still have not recovered to the population level that we used to have. Um, so our so our little island of Ireland is actually divided into two countries, Northern Ireland and Ireland. And um as a result, there's been you know a civil war that's been going on, and there's there is even though we're in a time of peace at the minute, there is still so much trauma from from everything that that happened. And um, you know, up until recently, I think Ukraine overtook Northern Ireland, but before that, Northern Ireland had the one of the highest rates of PTSD in the world. So um so so Paul and and his colleagues have been they're all trauma therapists, so that they're trained in EMDR or CBT, trauma-focused CBT. And you know, really the whole model of Mirabolis is based on the trauma model that you know, like your symptoms don't, it doesn't mean that you're broken. It it's just your your symptoms are an understandable reaction to something that you weren't prepared for. And we just listen to those and allow that to kind of unpack what's going on for people and and um help people process stuck memories is essentially our our kind of philosophy. And we've we've been doing that quite successfully with EMDR, but their EMDR still has its limits and it's it's a lot of work, and it's also really, really challenging for someone with PTSD because you're asking them in a sober state to recall the most traumatic moment of their life, right? So and and no amount of trying can eat can get them there because there's there's biological systems that have kicked in to protect you from going back to that. So some people with 10, 20 year long traumas, it it's almost impossible to to get into that and and reprocess that. And you know, the result or the the results, the effects of that are beyond just one person, you know, like the whole families are affected by it. And um so I think, you know, when I met Paul, who uh you know, he's been prescribing uh psychiatric medication for 25 years, uh there was definitely a sense of um like despair or hopelessness, I guess, because he knew that he was he was maybe numbing people from the pain or and helping people cope, but he he wasn't fixing them, you know. There was there was that wasn't an option. And um So, so anyway, so that that was the case, right? And then along comes Mr. Psychedelic. And um funny fact, I was thinking about this this morning. Sam, the first time I heard that word, psychedelic, was I was with you. And it was when we were staying with your friend, uh I can't remember his name. Yeah, and yes, his son. His son, who was like nine or something, came in and put on a Spotify playlist called Psychedelic Bunnies. And I was like, What does it what? I couldn't even pronounce the word, you know, it's quite a hard word to read. I was like, what is that? And he put on the playlist, and I was really digging it. So I saved the playlist. I've still got it. Um and that kind of opened me to this like psychedelic music, but I I had never even asked. It didn't even, I didn't, yeah, it didn't even register what psychedelics were, I you know, until years later. Um, or not years later, maybe about a year later. Um so so you know, I had um I done a bit of research myself into it. I had I had experimented with a few of these medicines myself. And anyway, one day I'm sitting in Mirablis, and this email inquiry comes in from one of Paul's colleagues just saying, look, I've been asked if I'd be interested in this study. I don't have capacity, would you guys be interested? And I I brought it to Paul and I just said like Paul, this is the future of mental health care. And you know, if if you you know, if you think we'd be capable of pulling this off, I think we should really try and do it. And um in that time managed to arrange for Paul to take mushrooms himself in a legal, safe setting. And it was uh life-changing, like totally life-changing. He he laughed solidly for about five hours. He kind of he came in very serious thinking he's gonna have this divine encounter with God and sort all the world's wrong. And he just laughed and laughed and laughed. Um and it was amazing, you know. He just and and it, you know, the way he described it, it was like he was he was shifting energy that was that was stuck that he had held for so long.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

And um and Ken Hardy what year was that?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

That would have been uh 2021, I think maybe the end of 2021, something like that. So, you know, it's it's one thing to to be doing a study, but it it's another thing when your PI is a psychiatrist who has seen his, you know, his profession just failing the their patients. And um and and when he when he got that first experience of it, he just got it immediately, you know. And you know, and so you know, he took he took mushrooms, and we haven't we're not we haven't done any studies with mushrooms yet, but um psychedelics, there's there's a bunch of medicines that sit within that bubble uh or that category. And um this this last study that we've been doing for the last few years is with a drug called methylone. And it's if you know MDMA, it's it's uh analog of MDMA, so it's MDMC. So it's quite um it's close to MDMA if if people listening know the effects of MDMA, but MDMA kind of has this um rapid accelerated come-up, and it's quite um euphoric and brilliant for a rave, right? But maybe not so brilliant for therapy. Um but it but it it bursts your heart open. So that's why everybody loves it at the raves. Um you feel totally connected with everyone, you love everyone, you love yourself, everything is good. Um and and anyway, so so methylone has that effect, it seems, but it's much softer and much gentler, and it means that the patient taking it is able to talk, which is which is life-changing because a lot of the people that with with complex PTSD, even if they're talkers, you know, they'll they'll do very well to avoid the topics that they don't they don't want to go towards. And there's something about what methylone does, it it creates this like it in EMDR we talk about the window of tolerance. So it's like this window that you're capable of working within. And if you go outside of that, the processing stops, and and there's loads of ways that people do that to kind of avoid it. And so if you if your EMDR window of tolerance looks like this, you know, the methylone one is is like this, and and it's a it's a bubble that surrounds you and fills the room, and the sense of safety um just creates this real openness that that allows people, encourages people to talk. Um so I don't know if you do show notes, I can give you the yeah, I can give you one of the recent publications of of that most recent study. Um so so yeah, so so that's a long way of saying we've now kind of set up Mirabilis as it does a few things. It offers therapy and and it offers ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, which we've just launched, and then it also is doing clinical trials using these medicines. Um, because really, like that, you know, the big goal for us is to make these treatments accessible on this island. And um well, we've done it, you know, like we're we're the only clinic on the island now that that offers it. I'm sure that'll change soon enough. But um yeah, it's it's been a wonderful journey, Sam. Um in a sense, it feels like we're just getting started.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

And great lead-in, Cam. So I've I sensed pride, which it sounds like to have achieved such a big milestone. Must feel fantastic, Cam, because there's so many nuances to that. It's the effect on people, it's the big heavy lifting to get studies approved and to all the activities that have led to where you are today. If something in this conversation lit you up, there's a signal in that. If you want help tuning your own signal into a clear next move, start with a three-minute signal check-in at naturalgenius.com.au. And if you want focused support, book a signal lab and we'll work through it together. Now back to the natural genius. It feels like there's a bigger vision. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Like there's a bigger vision. I guess the bigger vision is is probably when I um when I look into the future when these medicines are are regulated, because at the minute the only way you can use them apart from ketamine, is within a clinical trial. So that that limits us to the amount of people we're we're allowed to recruit into a trial, and that's you know, that's normally 10 to maybe 20 people max per trial. So that's not a lot of people. And um I'm I'm much more interested in making it accessible to a much wider group of people because I while I think it it has, of course, it has great benefits for complex PTSD, it it could equally have you know massive benefits for you and me, or for for people without a big complex trauma, but are maybe just navigating something tricky or or at a stage in their life where stepping back from themselves for a few hours just to get a new perspective could could be really life-changing. And and I mean, I've I've seen that, you know, like there's there's three places in the world you can do it legally now. It's the Netherlands, Jamaica, and Costa Rica. And we've had numerous patients who you know got did the trial, got a taste of what this could do, but wanted more, and went off to one of these places and went to a retreat. And like it's funny, like in mental health, there's it's not like it's not like in a hospital where you can physically see the difference if you if you help heal someone's arm. But with psychedelics, you actually do see a physical difference, like people they carry themselves differently, or they they project their voice differently, or the eye contact changes, and um it's really I mean, I am proud of it, but it's humbling as well, just to like just see that effect on people. Um and it's funny, like when I um when I left Dawson Andrews, I remember one of the last conversations I had with my co-founder, and he said, We were just having this conversation, you know, we've built it to a point now where we can do whatever we want. We don't we don't need to do the jobs that we couldn't afford to hire people for, we've hired them now. And and Andrew was like, What do you want to do? And I just I said, I just want to get the best out of people, like that that's all I'm interested in, just human potential. How can I help everyone be a better version of themselves? And you know, the answer for Dulson Andrews was, well, we can't afford a full-time person doing that at the minute, and that doesn't make sense. Um, but it was a really it was a it was a good point for me to get to to realise that's what made me tick. And I think that's why I'm so obsessed with with the psychedelic space, because these medicines do that, you know, like as a facilitator, your only job really is to create the setting and help the individual with the mindset to to be prepared and um and to get them there. But then once once the medicine's introduced and and that happens, your job is to get behind the medicine and just let it do the work. And I don't know, I just there's some like we talked, we spoke about magic at the start, and you know, mad mushrooms are are given, have been given the term magic mushrooms, I think for a reason, because there is a sense of magic and mystery about them that is um it's uh just incre it's absolutely incredible. Um and I think like the for for even the skeptics, like my dad. Remember, my my mom asked my dad, what do you think? He's quite conservative Scottish man, and um he just said, Well, you can't argue with the results, you know. He's like, I I'm not sure what what I feel about drugs and all this thing, but like the when you look at the results, like I can't you can't argue with what's happening there. So and I I get the sense that the world is waking up to that more and more. So so yeah, like what's what's the bigger vision? The bigger vision is opening up these therapies to more and more people and creating creating those spaces, those those magical events um that to me is it's kind of second nature, it's quite easy, but there's there's a real art to creating a space where people feel safe and they feel held and they feel like they're brought on a journey without being directed. Um so I think like that, yeah, that's probably where we're headed in the next few years. Um, we'll see how the legalization thing goes. We're probably talking four or five years before we can actually do that, but that's okay. I need need to save up some money and buy it.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Well, and I was gonna ask you about investment because it sounds like there might be investment that comes for that. And also for you, Cam, I loved what you said about the caring about the potential of others because this work sounds like it's that combined with a good future market that you like and a good sort of futuristic technology. So it's it's spaces that you have played with with I think most of the entrepreneurial activities that you've done. And with your great background, investment yeah, I mean, people you've already been able to prove through many ventures that you've been successful. So wow this is the first uh the first chat I've had, Cam, where uh the story and what your vision is is gone for most of the um time together. And I just didn't want to stop you because it's such a beautiful pacing and a beautiful story and a beautiful vision that you're doing and and with lovely intentionality, and you described it so well with the meditation as well. And I do love that we start talking about the convertible because now I understand how it all comes together, and I love the shout-out to Jeff Brown as well, and in Aries that's um he's been good enough to uh guide a few of my me and my friends around. So it's really nice to remember that road trip together. And I was also saying, as a slight sidebar uh the other day, I was talking about someone that is talking to someone about you and I catching up, and I was saying how uh also when we were together, you were like, Oh, I think I've got some like Ethereum and some Bitcoin somewhere, and then you sort of just through conversation, you discovered some of it, and so it's like you and I both understand the beauty that is a road trip and road trip conversation.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

So I don't know whether I'm I need to give you I need to give you a massive thanks for that, Sam. Like that that I don't know. I I well I I hope I would have remembered it at some point, but it wasn't until road tripping with you and you were talking about it, and I was like, hold on, I did buy some of that. And I remember sitting in your spare room on my on my laptop trying to like find it, and then I found it and I was like, Oh yes, this is great.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

I in my mind it was like five grand or something, but you were like, Yeah, yeah, I got the password, or no, I remember the wallet and I could reset the password or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

So yeah, it was I mean Yeah, yeah, and then and then it rocked, and then it rocketed over the next like few months. So um yeah, you and all your friends were retiring on your Bitcoin investments.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I mean, not so much today. That's exactly right, yeah. Yeah, we were um we've been through, and that's part of the reason why I mentioned different technology, Pam, because uh there's so many different perspectives on psychedelics, and you would have seen so many of them. And one perspective is technology, and another is magic, like you said before. And I do love seeing the fast effect that I've seen on friends and what has happened, and I loved what you said as well about the three you described three reactions eyes, the way they carry themselves, and that they might look different. I think was the third one that you might have said. And how cool is that for psychological-based outcomes? I loved what you said, you know, you can't necessarily see it physically for other things. Um, tell me about other aspects of life, Cam, because that sounds really enriching. Tell me about family and living in Ireland and what you're doing to keep the fun rating high.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yes, that that's the other part that we haven't caught up on since I last saw you have produced two little dynamite boys that are great fun, um, but they are absolutely killing me as well. They like they are just so much energy. So there's so much energy. They're up at 5 a.m. every morning, they're just bouncing off the walls. Like this morning, I woke it, walked into their room, and they had um brought in plates and popcorn and chocolate, and then a packet of eggs, and there were raw eggs on the ground, on the carpet, on their bed, like that. And that that's like quite a typical morning, you know. Like there's different variations of it, but I just feel like my it's a good thing that I work in a mental health uh center because I'm able to go in, get to the meditation room, and just recalibrate because I'm it's uh I know my greatest frustration is that I I'm I haven't been presentable for years because there's always snot or or weed a bicks or milk or just like you know, I can't keep any clothes clean when you're on your on your way out the door and it's oh you've just missiles fired at you.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Um so yeah, like it I don't know if it kind of can I interrupt for a second. Have you got that? Is there the height of your children? Like, is there a line, like a little dare I say a little snot line halfway up your leg?

SPEAKER_03 41:17

On the trousers?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

No, no. No, Sam, there's no limits to the heights that these boys can get to. Like the chocolate, the only reason they have chocolate is because Judah has managed to work out how to scale the cupboard to get to the cupboard on top of the fridge freezer and get his hand into the back and pull out the chocolate. You know, it there's no limits. So, you know, my my head is not a limit, they they can get anywhere they want.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

And tell me uh do how how many years until they understand meditation.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I've tried, I've I have tried, I've tried it with them a few times. We've got a lovely little ritual at dinner time where we've got a singing bowl and each of us each of us hit it once and we take a breath and and slow down. So it doesn't always work, but you know, I try little ways to kind of get them into that way of thinking, but um they're yeah, they're quite different, and so I think one of them may never ever meditate. And I do think the other the the little one, Oak Lee, I think he could get into it in a in a bit, but he's still too young.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Um, okay. So that's the fun right now.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

So yeah, it so like that's yeah, that's what's fun. It it kind of feels like I don't know, it's it's interesting being a dad, you know, because you you don't you feel ready for it, but you don't quite you can't quite comprehend the cost of it in terms of like your time, you know, just like your time and your availability. And I feel like I I actually I feel like often quite a bit of guilt around not seeing friends or not staying connected with people. And it feels like my my social circle, which was you know, do lectures in Australia and travel the world, you know, it was like there was no limits, and and I had a great time, and now it's just like shrunk way down, and and it's just in this tiny little bubble of doing the school runs and going to work and going to nursery, and um so so yeah, I I I I think like um, yeah, if I'm honest, I I wrestle with that a bit because there's there's the old part of me that just wants to be free. Um but then but then I remember, you know, even in Oz, like the reason we came home was to have kids. We didn't want to have kids out there without any support. And like that that motivation was like From a much deeper sense of like a lack of purpose, you know, it I was just like, oh, like I I'm having a great time in my life, but I don't feel like a deep sense of purpose. And I mean, and I just I know when I saw kids and stuff in the playgrounds walking, you know, three manly and all, I was just so broody, you know. I was like, oh I need I need to make one of those, you know, I was just so ready for it. So um so yeah, I'm I'm in that, you know. So like my I f I feel like my social circle is very small and somewhat limited, but um I guess just your definition of fun needs to change. So like fun is going to the park and climbing trees or going on the trampoline or lighting a fire and roasting marshmallows, you know, like that's kind of that's my jam these days.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I mean, I had this fabulous friend from Sydney that I traveled with through Italy one time, and she said, whatever blows your hair back. And I tell you, it's such a great saying because whatever it is is is I mean, for you these days, I don't know whether fund rating is actually the the uh the right measure. Um I can't I love that you talked about meditation because I can feel that uh much more ease with you, Cam. And so uh to have that around your children must be such um such a pleasure. That's work's gone.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Yeah, well they don't they don't always get uh, you know, it's that's not uh they didn't get that this morning, but there's bloody eggs. But uh but yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

The convertible cam, and now I've got the eggs cam in my head. That's what I'm gonna be remembering for next time. I mean up. I'll be like, that was the day, Cam. That was the egg day.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

That was the egg day, yeah. It was the first, it was the first time I've seen eggs in their bedroom, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Lock up your eggs, people. Cam, thank you so much. I feel like I could talk to you for a lot lot longer about so many more subjects. I so appreciate you taking the time to explain the journey. And uh I think you and I at different stages with do lectures were looking for role models, and I also love that you just you described uh that it's do lectures is for people who are have done stuff, and I always thought it was also people who are doing stuff. That's why I interjected and added that into the conversation earlier, because when we were choosing when we're choosing speakers, it was always we were spoilt for choice in terms of who we could get to speak, and it was always like okay, we want people who have not just done stuff, we want them still to be doing things. And you and I fit the mold. I still remember like so many of the people that applied to be participants could have done do lectures talks because the way they talked about themselves, they didn't even realise. They're like, oh yeah, I'll fix this about my local community and I run this and I do that, and I oh and oh, and there's that, and it's and no wonder when I turned up there as a participant in Wales, it felt like such a lovely holiday because I was surrounded by people who got that drive to generate and to make uh you know support others and get stuff done and do great things. Cam, thank you so much for your time. It has been such a pleasure to see you.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, it was it was great to chat some. I feel like we could have chatted for four hours.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Easily. We need another road trip, Cam.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Thanks for listening to the Natural Genius podcast. Please share this with anyone who came to mind and visit us at naturalgenious.com.au. Thanks so much.