#28 - Corinne Proske: Building for Forever in Nature, Leadership, and Impact

Corinne Proske is CEO of Trust for Nature and brings a rare combination of environmental science, commerce, social impact finance, and executive leadership to her work. In this conversation with Sam, she reflects on returning to her first love, nature, after years shaping financial inclusion initiatives, and on what it takes to build organisations that last.

They explore private land conservation, the people drawn to caring for country, and why purpose-led work still needs commercial discipline. Corinne shares thoughtful perspectives on leadership, AI and workflows, giving people room to grow, family and flexible work, learning from failure, reading timing well, and protecting what matters for future generations.

This episode explores:

• returning to nature after years in financial inclusion and social impact work
• what private land conservation looks like through Trust for Nature
• why impact organisations still need commercial clarity and business discipline
• how to use AI and systems thoughtfully without overcomplicating the work
• trusting your gut, creating space to think, and resisting groupthink
• hiring capable people, letting them grow, and leading with more range
• family, flexibility, office culture, and supporting younger people at work
• Budj Bim, First Nations knowledge, and caring for land and water for the long term

Guest bio:

Corinne Proske is the CEO of Trust for Nature, one of Australia’s oldest conservation organisations, working to permanently protect landscapes on private land. Corinne is passionate about ensuring non-financial value is understood and included in business and has a deep and long-standing commitment to protecting nature. Prior to that, she spent 13 years with NAB in business banking and social responsibility, where she was responsible for NAB’s $130 million financial inclusion programs focused on helping low-income Australians access financial services, in addition to helping the bank become carbon neutral.

Guest links:

• Corinne Proske: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corinne-proske-7093122/
• Trust for Nature: https://www.linkedin.com/company/trust-for-nature/about/
• Australian Land Conservation Alliance: https://www.linkedin.com/company/australian-land-conservation-alliance/

Chapters:

00:00 Intro and Corinne’s return to nature
02:44 Trust for Nature and caring for land forever
05:37 Financial inclusion, Good Money, and designing programs that last
09:19 Building a business for forever, revenue for impact, and AI
14:24 Leadership, space to think, avoiding groupthink, and letting people grow
25:58 Country, First Nations knowledge, and Budj Bim
31:17 Family, flexible work, offices, and the next generation
42:03 Timing, failure, and protecting land and water for the future

Explore further:

Explore partnership or collaboration with Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Subscribe to hear future episodes

About Natural Genius:

Natural Genius is a podcast hosted by Samantha Bell. Through thoughtful conversations with founders, leaders, creatives, and changemakers, it explores how people build meaningful work, live with greater signal, and create things that last.

Credits:

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Violet Town and Melbourne, 11 March, 2026
Produced at the Violet Town office, 11 - 31 March, 2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast. We're here to help you tap into your natural genius. Let's go. Get ready to meet the powerhouse. It is Corinne. She's one of those people that's been able to take her influence and her clever, grounded way of getting a lot of progress in the financial system to help a lot of people through social impact finance. She's uh great fun, uh, loves being outdoors, and we haven't seen each other for a long time. So, this is a really great chance to reconnect. She is an impressive person to know. Enjoy hearing Corinne. Corinne, welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Oh, it's been such an honor to be here, Sam.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Um, and before we started, we before we hit record, we started talking about your role because I was catching up with you after a while of not having seen you. And you were saying that you're now working with Trust for Nature, and through the pandemic, you had a bit of a soul search and worked out what you wanted to do next after great financial social impact work. And now you're doing that work. So tell me, you said that you're a long shot for uh for the role you're doing now and you're having a ball three years later.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So um my first love was always nature. Um I've always been into nature and the outdoors, and at university I um studied environmental science and did a master's environmental science as well as a bachelor of commerce. So um, but I'd got so used to doing my nature stuff in my private time. And after the pandemic, and you know, I was looking for a role and I was thinking things through, and this role came up as CEO of Trust for Nature, and I did think I was a long shot because I hadn't worked in nature for a long time. I'd worked in climate, but um that had, you know, that had also been a long time because I'd spent so much time working on financial exclusion and economic empowerment. So um, but I was fortunate enough to get the gig and I'm three and a half years in, and I'm so happy. I I reckon I have the best job in the world. Um, all the power to you. Tell me more. Um, so Trust for Nature is one of Victoria's oldest conservation organizations, and we work with private landholders who wish to conserve their properties either forever with a conservation covenant or the Land for Wildlife program, which many people will know, is a lime green triangle, which you put on your fence and indicate that you are passionate about nature and you're creating a wildlife habitat. So that's you know, apart from actually seeing beautiful places, what inspires me the most is the people. People who are drawn to nature and who take the time to care for it and think about forever are just really amazing people. And I get to hang out with them, and I think that's that it's just a joy I get every day.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Karen, I am absolutely delighted to hear of that for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

And I think they come, I think what's clear for me now in and I can only speak for Victoria, is they come in all shades of people, and and I think part of that is it provides a lot of hope for the future because climate change is here and uh and we are seeing nature change, but I've got people we work with who are 95 and thinking about future generations. I've got young people, couples, singles, every shade of politics, farmers, but they're people who love their land or um who who are just thinking about the betterment of the both the plants and the animals. So um it's it's just nice to come across people who are are that vested into things outside of themselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Oh, and hanging with great people is a nice nice experience and in beautiful surroundings. Totally agree. And I was um deliberately outside for this conversation with no blurring of the background. And I've just realized why, because the friends whose property I'm on right now, they've actually done, they've got a c covenant on their land as well. So we're looking at a property that doesn't have fences and is being restored. So how fun that that's uh that's come into our conversation. So yeah, go there exactly. And then and they tell me about people around this area. So this is Violet Town, a couple of hours north of Melbourne, and uh yeah, I really love being on different people's properties around here and and the work that they're doing to conserve them. Tell me, I want to wind back the clock a little bit because when last you and I were face to face, you were doing work around financial empowerment and you the person you are in my mind, and uh with a lot of these conversations, I'm like, oh, I wish I'd caught up with that person more regularly. The person you are in my mind is having created lots of great ripple effects in the financial social impact world. Tell me when you reflect on that part of your career, what are you most proud of? And do you still get notes of those ripple effects?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yes, I do. Um, and the the time I spent working on financial inclusion was really important. And I was even invited last week as part of International Women's Day to a session around um women and and the importance of financial empowerment in particular, given the vulnerability that many women face because of money. Um and I think building products that are are both inclusive financially, but also give people the tools to find a future themselves is really important. So uh I can see that you can't you, you know, when I go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you've got to look after yourself and that security as a primary piece. And before you can even think about nature, even though we're interrelated, and it's part of it is we've got to take some of the crisis out for people. Um and and that work was really, you know, impactful. But and I speak to people who have both taken the loans or who are working through those programs still because they're still in existence. And um, one of the good money stores, which is in Collingwood in Melbourne, when I drive by it, I have a small smile.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

You know, I haven't seen you for ages.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah, I haven't seen you for ages, and I do the same when I go past there because I think of you every single time.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

So um, but it's also really nice that those programs survive beyond the individual, and that was always part of the intent that no one person should hold a program. So um allowing microfinance in Australia to thrive, I was only a small cog in that wheel that is continuing. And and unfortunately, the need for those products hasn't stopped. Um, and that's I think you know, and we're seeing probably more and more need for it now as there is greater pressure on housing and inflation, making you know the day-to-day for people on lower incomes incredibly challenging.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Oh, Corinne, I you uh a dear friend Lisa Gamboni, who I've done a podcast episode with, is on my mind as you're talking because she did commerce and psychology. So she does really great stuff in the people space, and she talks about how she's got she's the psychologist and the economist. And I love for you that you're talking about sustainability and uh um and finance or um the economist aspect as well. Such a great complementary uh set of skills that you've studied, and then you've taken thoughts into possibly two parts, two sort of I don't know, decades or a couple of decades of your career heading to the green. Um so tell me more about life now and tell me about some of the programs or the initiatives that you're doing and um what you're proud of in that space.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

So um I think what I've been really proud of is like all businesses, Trust for Nature um had been around for over 50 years, and we have done quite a lot of work around transformation and preparing ourselves for the 21st century, you know, looking at AI, looking at leveraging technology more broadly, looking at a lot of the various spatial data sets and so forth. And how do you build a high-performing team leveraging these tools whilst maintaining that relational piece, which I think is the magic, because it's those human interactions with landholders that that kind of is the glue of the business. So bringing a uh you know, a business mindset to what the organization has been really critical. Um and working with the team to do that, and and some of it has been um, you know, helping a lot of the scientists um have conversations about money and learning around how do you read the the profit and loss and you know why is revenue important for impact? Um and that I think discussions that are not always that comfortable in some of these sectors. Um but if we don't bust those myths, we can't, I think, continue the work. And and so a lot of the work I you I developed and skills I developed in that financial exclusion work, I've been able to bring on around how do you build if we're going to be a business for forever, we have to build it like a business for forever.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Oh, it sounds like you're the most perfect person for the job. I I mean, how how lovely. And uh do you think that that was part of the thinking in the decision makers around bringing you on?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I think I suspect so. I suspect they, you know, I've been able to leverage a lot of my marketing skills, the brand work I'd done, and that kind of financial piece. Um, you know, and and I'm surrounded by a whole bunch of really capable scientists and ecologists. So there's no lack of technical, but bringing that I think that business acumen helps, you know, shape the business. So and sometimes you just have to be in the right place at the right time.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Oh, beautifully said. And tell me some of the applications of technology that you're part of and how you might, what your criteria might be working with what you take on.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah, we're working through that at the moment. Um, but just looking at workflows and and you know how people spend their time. And I think you know, AI has turned up very quickly in in our worlds, all of us. Um, for many, it will have been there for a long time, but for for a lot of us, it's you know, the last 12 months have just been quite full on. And how do you leverage these tools for good? Um, and that's partially what we're working through at the moment. So we're doing you know, our back infrastructure, but really thinking through where is our time best spent and can you automate some of these processes so that the technical skills are used better than just doing paperwork.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah, wow. And also doing tests, I guess, to see what works and what you think is going to be robust.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

And some stuff works and some stuff doesn't. So it's I think just putting the rigor around it to have a shot. Um without necessarily I'm also a fan and having um because in between doing some well, as part of my financial exclusion work, I helped build a technology platform and through that I learned the importance of not customising.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Um, that's a very good thing to learn.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Build the processes around, don't customize the tech.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Um such a it's so it's such an important topic right now, Corinne, because of vibe coding and because of so many different technology solutions that can be tailored right now. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

And I think it's really that people can change, but you can build systems that are way too technical if you're not careful. Um, and so really understanding, having clarity on what you're trying to achieve when you're looking at processes, and then really sticking to that, getting those pieces right before you start adding, you know, the icing on the ground. Um there's a lot of efficiencies in just getting the basics right.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Gosh, how interesting. So when you're working with uh leaders around you and even doing mentoring from time to time, Corinne, what are the things that reappear that you teach other people?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Um I think trust your gut sometimes. Um and I I personally I find it really important to have some creative space, and that to do that, you've got to get away from the emails and the um, you know, the day-to-day piece. So create enough space that you can actually think through options. Um and and and sometimes getting to the right decision can take time, but give yourself time to work it through. Um so I think that's one of the things I see because I can see some people just rushing to a decision. Sometimes a slower peak journey can get you to a better decision. Um I also suggest to people to don't get into the group think, get different opinions around the table. It's not always very comfortable, but you can get a better answer too. Um and learn to live with that discomfort sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Oh, I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Tell me more because you would know. I mean, I think that the person that you are and the success you've had with uh small to medium businesses within or organizations within sometimes bigger structures, you would know how to build an entity. So, what are what other things? Because I mean, you're across so many different aspects as a leader. So you'd be across people and finance and systems and marketing, as you just referred to. So, what else comes to mind as good tips that you think that have given you a good way to chart your course?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Hire it, hire really capable people, you know. Sometimes less is more, but make sure they're really good that because then let them and then let them do their work. Subject matter experts, just let them do it. You know, I work with an incredible fundraising and communications team. I just need to understand what they're doing, but they can do it themselves. And I think there's some real magic in watching people grow into that. Um, but I've also seen leaders hold the reins too tight. So tight when you need to, but also if people can do their jobs, let them go.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

And Corinne, do you think that you were like that in your 20s?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Do you think it might have been hiding that holding the reins too tight? Or do I think my question was clear?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

So I I I think over time you and I think as as you become more experienced, you become more comfortable with with letting things go as well. Um, so I think that that is a something that comes with time, which is I think one of the gifts of time and experience. Um, probably when I was younger, I was probably rushing a bit hard, um, probably a bit too ambitious, and probably didn't let people grow enough. But I also made, you know, you learn from your mistakes in those things.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Oh, and we you have to grow through them. Uh Annie Faulkner, who I did an episode with recently, she uh I met her through change management in Australia, where she was presenting at a change event that I went to. And she was a really senior change manager in Australia and then went on to uh move to Berlin and she's been doing change programs across Europe. And more recently, she advised she coaches very senior leaders and boards and things like that, and she was talking very eloquently around the ambiguity and the adaptability and letting go. So it's lovely that this same thread's coming through in this discussion, Corinne, because similarly you've seen a lot of great leaders and uh developed your own leadership over time, and that letting go, as you say, gets more comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Well, I also think, and I reflected upon it the other day. If you as a leader, you get it wrong sometimes. You're rushing, you're across a whole lot of things, and just taking the time when you reflect upon that and just apologizing and saying, you know, I got it wrong, I'm only human, goes a long way for people who are working with you. Um I think sometimes there's an assumption as a leader that you have all the solutions and that you get it right all the time. So to show that human vulnerability, I think just allows the relationships to deepen. Um and there were two people, you know, I'd had the communication in my head, but clearly I hadn't voiced it to them. Um, so when I made a decision, they weren't quite at the stage that I thought they were at. Um and so I then reached out to both of them independently and said, Look, I'm really sorry. This is where my thinking was at, and I probably should have engaged you a bit earlier. And it just went a long way because both of them, one of them said, Yeah, I was a bit grumpy about that, and the other one said, Oh, no problems, I could see you were stretched. But it creates a much better dialogue and I think an insight as to how you lead and your style. And I think that's really important because leaders are only as strong as the team that surrounds them and works with them. And I think showing that um vulnerabilities is something that probably didn't happen when I first started my career. Um, I remember working in professional services with a partner who was very staunchly, you know, I will always be the partner and very straight-faced and you know, very strict whilst, you know, was dealing with a terminal illness, but we never saw that as part of their personality. Um, and I often think of her and the journey she must have gone on because it would have been hugely isolating because um that was just not what she brought to work. And I think the workplace has slid a bit more into bringing your whole self to work. And I think that was probably a real upside of the pandemic, um, where we have blended personal and and work-related duties a bit more, and I think that strengthens um leaders, I think it also makes it less lonely as a leader because you know you can open up a bit more and share around how you're operating or your decisioning.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Oh, that's so beautifully said. I reflect on when I was a line manager years and years ago and uh the loneliness. I learned the loneliness piece in that environment, and that was uh early 2000s. So I'm pleased to hear you refer to it. Uh the impact of the pandemic. That's that's lovely to hear. Yeah, bringing a bit more of yourself and that um leading as a a human that sometimes makes mistakes and does the best with what you've got at hand. And then what you're talking about is also specific communication, Corinne. You're actually saying. Saying that you're being mindful of what happened and also explaining your decision making and where you're at with it, um, which gives context. And like we're I love how this word context is in our everyday so much these days because of AI and uh and context setting. And I wonder if it's also improving our communication because we're like, oh, we've got to provide context to others in real life, not just the agents.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

And tell me what drives you these days with this lovely being able to be around more green and more green initiatives. What uh what are you looking forward to seeing in the world? What I bet you were pretty clear on what you were driving towards when you were doing the financial work. So tell me more about day-to-day now.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Um I think part of it is just um seeing that the the magic of what nature has to offer, which is what I get a lot of my energy from at the moment. And so really getting out there amongst it and seeing the beautiful things. Um I interrupt, can you tell me? So um, well, I think in the last year the biggest joy I've had has been chasing the Aurora Australis and watching just what a magical phenomenon that is. Um, you know, I have an app on my phone and I check it in the middle of the night, and I check and and then driving out in the middle of nowhere, and you know, and you can kind of see something in the sky, but then you lift up the camera and and all the colours come through, and it's it's really quite special. So I think it's things like that, taking the time to pause, listen, look, um, and there's so much of it around. And and as I've had the great opportunity of travelling across Victoria, I I look at how diverse Victoria is, um, and how humans have shaped the landscape for so long, whether it's First Nations people or even the gold rush, when I go up to, you know, some of the country in the higher country where you can see the rivers have been shaped, um, and you know, all the topsoil is no longer there, and and all of that, just noticing the little things and and having, I think, the luxury of time to to watch that is is I think pretty special.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah, well, and have you seen the light like the northern lights or seen them in other people?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

No, I'm going to I'm going to go and see, hopefully, a solar eclipse in the Arctic this year.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Oh wow. Oh my gosh, Corinne.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Oh, I have become a total nature chaser, I always was, but it's it's taken a whole new level of nature chasing.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Oh my gosh, I love to learn this about you. If something in this conversation lit you up, there's a signal in that. If you want help tuning your own signal into a clear next move, start with a three-minute signal check-in at naturalgenus.com.au. And if you want focused support, book a signal lab and we'll work through it together. Now back to the natural genius. Having not seen each other for a while, I was sort of, you know how you get like little breadcrumbs of friends across the internet from time to time. And uh I did pick up on this nature piece, and I did it sort of made me re recall it when we first got to know each other through do lectures and and seeing you at Payne's Hut. But um I I think being able to experience the land is so very special. And as you're talking about picking up your camera to see even more into another dimension, and uh I bet you would have learned a lot more about indigenous knowledge in different uh parts of Victoria as well, Corinne.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Totally, and I think that's been um a real joy because I'd worked quite a lot on financial inclusion for First Nations people in um my work previously, but to now learn about country um and to hear about the problems and the stories and um and to compare it also because Victoria's colonial history was pretty brutal. Um, so some of the stories we've lost in Victoria, but to piece the ones we have, but as you go to some of the other states where those cultures are probably less damaged, you get these really, really interesting stories and insights. And and sometimes just you know, you look up at the stars and you go, This is the sky that we've all seen for so many years. Um quite grounding about that. So I feel really honoured to hear those stories, to hear to meet those elders. Um, and probably my shout out would be to anyone who hasn't been to BudgeBim, which is in Western Victoria near near Hamilton, um, which are these really, really interesting rock um um eel-catching um mechanisms, so structures that are 6,000 years old. And there's just this amazing World Heritage site in our backyard that many Victorians haven't seen. And it's absolutely amazing to go and experience, hear the stories, and to hear the First Nations peoples today talking about how their families relate to this land.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

So Ian, tell me more amongst all the places that you've seen in Victoria. That one has touched you a lot. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Um I think it what what I uh did, and they've got this great tour operator operating out of out of that area. Um and it it just talks about the stories, but also around the role of eels in um in First Nations histories uh and culture. And so you hear about the the life cycle of the eel, so you get a bit of biology, but you also then hear around how important it was in the trade as part of food for for many, many years. So get out there, and there's this fantastic little cafe that's run by um First Nations, a First Nations business in the middle of it, and it's great. Oh, how it's a must do. I thought it was so good, I went three times.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Oh, I love learning about this. Do you know it's amazing going to certain sites? I was talking to Tim Buzzer recently about um the Top Carpi Palace in Istanbul, and I loved going there years ago because it actually felt like I was in the middle of East and West, like I could kind of feel a little bit of the Silk Road, I could feel a little bit of the trade by going into that palace and seeing like the Faberget egg and then the Chinese gifts to the prince, and then the European gifts, and uh uh I think it was like Muhammad's footprint or something. So there was like, and and then also next door the Aya Sophia and all the different um religions that had taken on that site over the years. And uh and then also uh through lectures is coming up because the two of us uh in part met through that. I remember hearing that there were no or part of the organizing around that is we had difficulties finding an elder to be able to do the welcome to country because they had passed in that area. And um, you know, some of the history you're referring to as to the um colonialization, and then through the processes of us having that experience, all of us coming together for that, and then the uh healing of the land that apparently happened, and then the passing on of Welcome to Country to Graham Payne, who was the venue co-founder through that experience. It's really lovely to see humans build in conjunction with the land.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Totally, totally, and there's so much to learn from that, I think. Um and again, we have to take the time to think it through, digest the history, um, because it's pretty it's pretty confronting. Um but but but this it's also this there's a level of resilience because these stories have remained and and thrive still after these, you know, quite traumatic colonial periods.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

I want to circle back to talking about uh bringing your whole whole self to work. Um, I appreciate what you just said too, by the way. I did listen. I I feel like for you, uh again, we don't know each other that well, but we've got such a care and love for each other, I think. Uh I feel like family has helped to ground and strengthen who you are as a leader. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, I think family's always been um really important for me. Um and so I grew up as a child of two migrants, um, European migrants. And um so we speak French at home. Um, and we've always been quite a tight family because a lot of you know people who are in Europe, they weren't here. So my parents kind of formed their own life and existence, and it created quite a smaller nuclear but really strong family unit, and and it's been a strength score, I think, you know, my entire life. Um and now is also part of you know who I am and how I spend my time. I spend a lot of time with family, so bringing up my son in that is also really important, um, and around the role of supporting and nurturing and caring and but also respect and listening and learning from others.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Oh, you've said that so succinctly. There's a lot in those succinct words, Corinne. That is so beautiful to hear. I have a very dear friend who's very uh their three generations are all very close and they holiday on weekends together and do, and it's just it's just such a unit, and there's the matriarch and the patriarch. And I I think it's lovely to observe that uh strength that they all get and that delight, you know, they don't necessarily need too many other friends around because they've got this beautiful unit that uh walks together.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah, I think I'm pretty blessed with that. It does require a lot of time and nurture, and I think um, you know, I spent a lot of time doing that.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah, and do you think that uh what comes to mind as you just said that was uh that impact on the teams that you grow, Corinne. I wonder if you might take some of those essences to the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Um I think to a certain degree, I think it's part of learning, working with people and valuing people um and respecting people, and that we're all very different but also can work well together. But I think one of the biggest things that I thank the pandemic for um is that uh because of this fair uh this blending of of family and work in a way, um, it probably over blended for a little while. Um, but it's come back that things such as flexible working is has become much more normalized. And I think for a long period, if you had a family and you were working full-time, you kind of had to run the two in parallel, and we don't as humans run them in parallel. So to be able to say, hey, I've got to take my kids swimming, that doesn't mean I can't do my job. Um being able to have a much more open conversation, I think that progressed workplace culture by about 10 years. Um because we were able to blend a bit more. Now it doesn't work for everybody, um, but as we have caring duties, both whether it's from young people or older people, that having that greater flexibility allows you to still perform whilst you know being able to support the other parts of your life without feeling like you're compromising any one piece. And I think that's part of the difficulty. And I don't think we would have got to where we are now um had we not had the pandemic, the pandemic kind of blew it all up a bit. Um and and as with any system of change, that's not usually a really good experience at the time, but what I see coming out of it is something that is probably more human than what we had before.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yeah, yeah, well said. I think if uh different organizations can continue those aspects rather than retracting uh to pre-pandemic restrictions, I think being able to take what works. And no, tell me if you're in the right.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Because I really the people I've seen suffer the most from working entirely remotely is young people coming into their career because that tea room conversation is really important because you learn so much by watching or by listening. And when you're at home and just working on a screen, some of us, like myself, I'm actually okay doing that, but I can see the younger people really struggle with it because they're not exposed to a whole lot of other things. Um, so we've been really conscious that I want to create a workplace where people want to go to the office because they want to interact with their colleagues, but that the power of those interactions can't be underestimated. So it doesn't mean you can't have flexibility, but we do need to come together. As humans, we are better when we come together. And ideas are, I think, of better quality when we join together. So creating the space to do that is really, really important, particularly as we've got to make sure the next generation has the skills to take on what is an increasingly complex world.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Karim, you speak to my heart. And I think you talked about listening and watching in the workplace and it's sensing and uh the energies that you create around each other as well. And so, how are you doing that successfully?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Um I think I'm really lucky in that people who work in conservation tend to want to they love what they do and they tend to have a cup of together. So I think all about the tea. I've got a natural bias there that they're likely to come together.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Um leave the rest of the world, Corinne, lead them.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

But I think um we we just need to create a place that people want to come in and to explain why. You know, it's not because I'm trying to check the you know whether you're coming in. Um it's because there's some some magic that happens when you do interact. Um and some of the things we've thought about is even the location of the office and making sure it's easy to access by public transport in in the head office from every direction in Melbourne, so that that it that doesn't become necessarily a burden for for coming in.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

And where have you chosen, Corinne? Where are you?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

We're in Collins Street, but just around the corner from Flinder Street. So it's really easy to get to. Um, but that is that has been one of our considerations because if you put it in the east or in the north or in the west, you're disadvantaging a group. And my sense is there's something about bringing us together. Um, we also have offices regionally, but again, we know I want people to go there so that they can hang out with their colleagues, share some ideas, and go back out in the field.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

And do you find people from the office there in town want to do they work remotely sometimes from the regional offices as well?

unknown 39:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Just because they can, like they don't necessarily need to for their work, but they do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

I have fun. And that again was one of those um, I think, barriers that evolved through the pandemic where, particularly in Victoria, where Melbourne became quite separated from the regions just due to the level of potential risk of transmission, um, there was, you know, there's always a barrier between head office and region. I think that's a natural business tension. Um but if you add if you add a um an additional barrier to it, that creates these these, I think, chasms if you we are not careful. So we've really focused on, and I've put it in the KPIs of the exec, you need to get out there, you need to understand the grant team on on the ground, you need to understand the business that's happening out there. Um and so you don't need to have a meeting specifically, but just make sure you understand what we do.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

How amazing. I want to be mindful of your time. Is there anything we haven't discussed? I mean, it's just been the most joyful conversation. It kind of feels like so many of these conversations, Corinne, feel like a part A. Like I I kind of just want to run a whole series. But tell me, tell me with what we've discussed. Is there anything that we haven't that you'd like to pass on? Because I love these uh episodes because it gives people a platform and it also gives you a chance to pass on things that have worked. And uh someone said the other day that it's great to be able to bring in sensing and energy and intuition into just the everyday conversation. And I think you and I both know that you just mentioned the word magic before. You and I both know this is like sometimes I often say with strategy, it's uh business plans and other things I've done and done in the past. More and more these days, I'm like, oh, actually, there was more that came into that. It wasn't just that I'd studied engineering and I'd worked in management consulting, like there was other, I don't know, natural abilities that came through for some of those to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

True, I totally agree. And I think the other piece and a lesson I learnt um quite hard at the time is a great idea and has its right time. You can have a good idea, and if it isn't presented at the right time, it can fall flat on its face. Um so it's not only the quality of the idea or the strategy, it's the timing. And timing you don't always have control on. So if the timing's not right, you just hold on to it potentially to see if you can line up the stars. Because that that was a tough one to learn because I had a great idea and it fell flat on its face, and I had that whole business failure moment. Um but there was that huge lesson of saying that's only half the piece. The other piece is is is watch that timing and understanding that external environment and when it's right is absolutely critical. And it's it's that other half of it. And that's where I often see great strategies, but if you haven't read the the right tea leaves, they can go nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

And Corinne, it that's beyond stakeholder management, isn't it? Done well. So it's like you can do all the stakeholder management that you like and make sure that each individual knows what's coming and what the idea is. But at the end of the day, if the timing's not right, then it won't come to be.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Totally, totally. And you know, um I had a great idea, it was all ready to go, and then we had a pandemic. Well, you couldn't have foreseen that, and then everyone locks down and suddenly all of those revenue streams we'd anticipated disappeared. Um, so, but it's that's just one of the things you've got to work with and be open to. So it's really important to also understand your external language. Landscape to see because there's only so much you can control within an organization. Some of it is is is is really resting with the gods.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

And Corinne, well done. Because that would have strengthened you as a leader, what you went through at the start of the year. It was right for the sounds of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

It was one of those, you know, you often talk about the the failures you have to have are the ones you learn from. And it was a tough one to learn from. And I think with the reflection now, it's I've got lots out of it, and I have no regrets, but at the time it felt felt awful.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Brutal. And I'm I chatted with someone uh in the last few months, and he was saying that his focus is to be able to take on bigger challenges. And so he was talking about with each new failure or new success or new experience that he has, he life can give him bigger challenges because he's taking on more and more. And so his drive in life was to be able to take on these bigger challenges. And so I think that sometimes when you're doing your best and you're uh sensing into what you need to do next, you do get bigger challenges and you do get failures and you do get successes, and it's being able to grow through them.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, there's there's lots still to do in this world, um, both I think socially and environmentally to make it a better place. Um and you know, you've just got to keep focused on building a better world for the future.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

And Corinne, is there any shout-out or any call out that you'd make around things that you see, anything that you'd like to see happen in the world or you'd like to see people work on?

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Um I'd I'd like them to stop warring, but I think that's a bit too optimistic.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Um God, I just keep on thinking of the overview effect. You know, they say the astronauts leave as scientists and come back as philosophers once they've seen the blue planet, and they think, why on earth would we be warring?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

That's right. And I think that's partly what I think is like why, you know, we have this extraordinary planet, and we we are part of it, we're not separate, and we need to spend more time making sure it's going to be okay. You know, we've got a really ambitious global goal of protecting 30% of land and water by 2030. Um, we've got a long way to go, and we just that should be our primary focus because the things that we are looking after are just extraordinary.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Oh, Corinne, you are beautiful. Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

It's been lovely to chat with you. Thanks for listening to the Natural Genius Podcast. Please share this with anyone who came to mind and visit us at naturalgenious.com.au. Thanks so much.