#38 - Joanne Merrick: Impact Is Everything

In this episode, Sam Bell speaks with Joanne Merrick about management, leadership, music, friendship, grief, and the impact we have on people.

Joanne is an architect of leadership transformation, author, neuroscience-informed talent strategist, and leadership development expert with 20+ years’ global experience across 5 continents and 22 countries. Her career includes leadership, learning and organisational development roles across Deloitte Consulting, Juniper Networks, Amazon Devices, Omnicell, 6sense, The Leadership Recipe and Island Health.

This conversation centres on a powerful idea: impact is everything.

Joanne shares why becoming a manager should be a conscious choice, not simply the next automatic career step. Management is not just “a new level in a game”. It is “a completely new game”, because managers and leaders have a profound opportunity to impact people’s lives in positive or negative ways.

Sam and Joanne also speak about bringing music into leadership development, living and working across cultures, the gift of long friendships, learning through grief, and why the impact we have on people becomes part of the legacy we leave.

Content note: this conversation includes brief reflections on grief and loss.

This episode explores:
• why management should be a conscious choice
• the difference between intention and impact
• how managers and leaders affect people’s lives
• bringing music, memory and personality into facilitation
• living and working across Australia, Hong Kong and the United States
• grief, appreciation and the legacy people leave
• Joanne’s book, Game On! Is Management Your Best Career Play?

Guest links:
Joanne Merrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-merrick/
The Leadership Recipe: https://www.theleadershiprecipe.com/
Joanne’s book: https://a.co/d/09pHXMMz

Conversation references:
Sander Dales: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanderfhdales/
Young Talent Time: https://www.youngtalenttime.tv/

Chapters:
00:02 Introduction to Joanne Merrick
02:02 Deciding whether management is right for you
08:40 Bringing music into leadership development
15:56 Intention, impact, legacy and Sander Dales
29:58 Living and working across cultures
42:40 Grief, appreciation and the legacy people leave

Explore further:
Listen to Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Anacortes, USA, 26 April 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 26 April - 3 May 2026.
Natural Genius Podcast: https://naturalgenius.com.au

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast. We're here to help you tap into your natural genius. Let's go. One of the things I love about Natural Genius is that it's showcasing people's multidimensionality. Joanne is an absolute inspiration in this respect. She's lived in many countries, grown her career through many different business areas. She's an expert on leadership and management. He's a great vocalist, a musician, an amazing wife and friend. So looking forward to hearing what's news with Joanne. Enjoy hearing from her. Jojo, welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast. On this show, you are divine and so special to me. I I yeah, it's amazing that you're here.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

It's an absolute pleasure to be here, Sam. I and I'm getting emotional as well. You know, friendships, you know, I was thinking about it uh this morning as I was, you know, mentally getting ready for today. And we've been friends for 25 years. It's like almost all my life.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

It's like, oh my gosh, you know, we're so blessed. So, so blessed. It's lovely to be here. And with you as always.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And fun to sort of think about the two of us in the Deloitte offices. Years gone by. It's it's such a wild experience, isn't it, to know friends over many years. It's a real privilege and such a there's so many gems that can come from knowing someone for a long time because they get to know your personality. You have developed over the years and studied so hard and lived in different countries. Tell me about the tips that you pass on in that realm around management and leadership.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

The main one, which is kind of the main stay, um, and probably the reason that I did write the book, which I know will talk about um Game Honors Management, your best career play, is to be a little bit more proactive in your decision-making process of actually deciding to be a manager, right? You know, I mean, you and I have both been managers in our careers, Sam. And I I don't know about you, but I know I definitely fell into the role without realizing personally all of the potential challenges, even when I'm teaching, you know, the skills of being a manager and being a great leader, when you're actually put in that situation yourself, you're you're kind of like, wow, this is new. Because you know, everybody that we're managing is different. Um, and we might even be different people at different times during our careers as well, that you know, we're working with. So uh I think in order to answer your question, um, to develop an increased sense of self-awareness and be curious about your own personal management style. And in that, um, be open to learning about what it really takes to be a great manager. And I think finally to recognize that management is about the impact that you have on other people, um, and the impact that we have as managers, or basically as human beings, is everything to me. So to open your eyes, your ears, your, you know, any any kind of self-awareness to to understanding that and being curious about it, and also being accountable for the impact that we have on on other people is um a main a mainstay, I think, and something that a lot of would-be managers probably don't really think about before diving into the role.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Because people are at work for many hours of many weeks in the year.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Well, yeah, if you think about it, you know, we spend more time with our work colleagues than we do in a day, you know, often than many of us do um with our home colleagues or in our home life, you know. Um, especially, you know, you and I.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

That's why I think the relationships that we create at work are life relationships.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

They're life friendships, arguably. Um, I know I at the moment I spend more time at work, you know, nine, ten hours a day than I do definitely with my husband and and puppy dog, you know. So the the relationships that I have there are incredibly important to not only my psychological well-being, but no doubt theirs. You know, so I for me it's a completely different lens to to look at life through um and at our work life through as well. That that whole rubbish of work-life balance, I I can't tell you. It's just like really, it's like it's just this it's just life, you know, and and that's why I think that what we do for work is life and should be seen that way because it's it's just so important for us as human beings and individuals, and so important for the people that we work with and their lives, right? Because we're all human at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

And Toto, tell me you're you've recently fallen into a bigger management role as well, is that right, at the hospital?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Well, I was I I've worked I've started to work as a business partner. Um, I've been in leadership and learning and development my whole, you know, most of my adult life career anyway. Um, so for the last 25, 30 years, and worked with a lot of amazing business partners. And to find myself in a strictly business partner type role within a healthcare or hospital environment has been absolutely fascinating, you know. Wow. I can see why there's shows like Gray's Anatomy and The Pit and all those wonderful shows based on what happens within a hospital environment, because you know, it really is seeing people at their um, you know, the patients obviously at some of their most challenging times, some of their most wonderful times. We have a birth center in the hospital and hear the chime go through the hospital every time a new baby or new life comes into this world, which just gives you just one of those wonderful feelings. Um, and I have just such an enormous respect for anybody who works in the healthcare industry, um, full stop, right? I mean, what they do and how they do it is is absolutely astounding. So to be a little bit closer to um how individuals lead under those circumstances is is an honor and a privilege and an opportunity to impact hopefully not only them in their careers, but obviously the people that they impact, and to be a little bit closer to the C-suite and the challenges of what it takes to actually run a hospital has been an absolute gift to me as well. I'm just I'm just learning so much um every day and a privilege to have the human beings in my life that I I have, particularly in this new field um that that I'm that I'm working in. I yeah, as you know, Sam, I work in a small town too. So it's um here in the Pacific Northwest of Washington. Uh so it's it's interesting to be part of a community now that uh people really care about their health and the health care that is provided to them. And to be part of that uh for the for the final years of my career um is a is an honor. I'm really enjoying it so wow, Joey.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

And then uh it reminded me of your facilitation years at Deloitte and how you helped so many leaders improve and managers improve. And the many, many, many courses that you ran, and it also reminds me of you being a musician and a beautiful singer.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Well, I did bring singing into my career into my facilitation set.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I did, you know, um, I'll never forget I was when I was working at Amazon, I was I wanted to make a link between doing what you love and loving what you do, uh even if what you love is not necessarily something that you can make a lot of money from, you know, but but how do you kind of link those two things together? So I was at Amazon and I was delivering uh a final keynote, if you like, to about 120 leaders, and I wanted to make that point. So um I remember like they'd had the the head of HR and there was the head of devices, and there was all of these really important people in the room, and they'd been there for about an hour and a half, maybe two hours, and then I got up. So I started singing from the back of the room into the microphone, one of the very first songs that I ever sang uh live when I was five years old.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

And it was, I'm not gonna sing it now because there was a little part of me that went like so hopeful and so we were going. Oh my gosh, I don't. It's when the red, red robin comes bop, bop, bop, and along, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

So here I am, you know, singing. I was singing that to, you know, five-year-old Johnny Young's talent team. Do you remember that in Melbourne?

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Yes, I I auditioned and went to training there. And that was one of the first songs that I ever sang live. I wish in those days we had had a recording of that, you know, that I could remember. So I know that song is now in everyone's mind that is listening to this. But it was a fun kind of song. But you know, I I and to be in that kind of audience singing that into a microphone when I was or as I was walking to the front of the stage, I do remember one of the leaders grabbing up their phones and starting to make a recording, and he had this huge grin on his face because, you know, who does that? Who starts who starts a conversation around career development by singing a song that they sang when they were five? You know, I mean it definitely got everybody's attention. Um, it possibly, you know, woke people up as well. I I don't know. Um but then obviously I needed to bring it home. And I brought it home by, you know, talking about the importance of doing what you love and loving what you do. And if you I like I've sung all my life, as you know, like my my first band was called Night Hours. You know, one of my last bands um here in the States was the Bipolar Bears. Um, I was sang in a band when I lived in Hong Kong there for a bit. There, they're they were the Jimmy Two Times, you know, so that's or Jimmy Two Times. So yeah, had a had a lot of experience and and had a lot of fun. And where I can break into song when I'm facilitating training, I I do because it's you know, any kind of music is a memory-making machine, uh, I think, and to create memories with emotion through music was one of the unique elements that I tried to bring to the experience that I was creating creating for the people that I was you know educating in the room. And um I think you know, I I do recall going up an elevator uh once in um when I I worked at Amazon and one of my participants was in the elevator with me, and she did comment to one of her colleagues at the time, oh, that's the singing facilitator that I told you about, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So the singing facilitator. Yeah. And I'm sure that in those in different moments in facilitation, you want to bring different energy into the room. So the atmosphere possibly was uplifted as well, Jojo.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I think so. Um, it definitely wasn't expected, right? It it definitely created a memory maybe for people that I had, you know, and that was the impact that I wanted to have um on those people and to create something that was fun as well. So um, and I was, you know, appreciative of my leadership at the time that let me bring an element of my unique self into the classroom as well, you know. So I mean, who doesn't love music, Sam? Like really at the at the end of the day. I I was never going to be the next, you know, Taylor Swift, right, in Australia growing up as a singer. I I did have a manager as a when I was a singer, when I was about 17 or 18. Um, I did take it quite seriously that, you know, clearly that was not the future that was meant for me. My my auntie, uh, people would maybe if they've been around a while listening to the podcast. My auntie was Lorraine Davy. And uh folks could Google her, and she she was really quite famous in her day. Now, my my voice was nowhere near as as wonderful uh as her. I was nowhere near as talented, but she was um my mum's older sister, and she she was really quite wonderful. She was on the front page of the TV week. If people from Australia are listening and they would remember that uh magazine from you know 40 years ago. She was on the front page, I think, when she had given birth to her first daughter. So there you go. Oh my goodness, I love those flashbacks.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I mean, was mom a good singer as well?

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Mum wanted to be a good singer. Um magic. Mum was fun. Uh, you know, it's it's funny. I think she wanted it more than my older sister did, but mom just didn't quite have um the talent.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

That didn't stop her singing in the house from time to time, by the way. But um my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Mum really wanted to do the singing and the dancing and all that kind of stuff, but um, I think she was destined for other things.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

So you want to be my mum?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, I just that's what was going through my mind. Yeah. Um we you used the word impact before, and I I would love to hear any stories that you've got about the impact that has delighted you in some of the transformations you've seen in managers or leaders through your career, or even just people that you observed. I feel I mean, it's just in my life, it's just so special to see somebody do what they love and surprise others with what they can achieve and whether they're going after it or not, or whether they're just quietly transforming.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, it's it's an interesting word, isn't it? Impact. Um it's not it's it's there's there's definitely a separation in my mind between or there can be, between the intention of the behaviors that we engage in and the actual impact that those behaviors are having on others. And, you know, obviously, in order sometimes to find out that maybe our impact was not what we intended, can be really quite a surprise to to folks. And I mean, if you think about it, that's the feedback loop, right? That's how we that's how we grow and learn as as human beings. I think that people need to own the impact that they have, irrespective of the intention that they that they do have on people. I do believe that if you think about the legacy that we all want to lead or leave in our lives, I would imagine that there is definitely a relationship between the impact that we have on other people and the legacy that we leave, you know, like what do people think of when they think about Samantha Bell, right? Or what do people think of when they think about Joanne Merrick? We we want to leave, we we want other people to think well of us. And for me, that is the impact that we have had on them. Like everybody listening to to this podcast is going to be impacted in some way, I would think, right? Hopefully, um, and hopefully that impact that we're having on them is that is is what's intended. Maybe, maybe it's not, I don't know. But I do, I had a very special friend uh in my in my life. You know, people come into our lives, you obviously being one of them for me. Um, but when I was living in Hong Kong, I met a gentleman by the name of Sander Dales. And it was interesting because I just moved to Hong Kong from Melbourne to start a new role as you know, head of learning and development for Asia Pack for Jennifer Networks. I didn't know anybody when I moved to Hong Kong. And um, Sander was a fellow Kiwi, is a New Zealand guy, and he was moving there with his wife and and children. And as you do when you start a new role, you you get to know all of the leaders. And so I was having different meetings with different leaders of different departments, and every one of those leaders were like, you need to meet this Sandra Dales guy, you need to meet this Sandra Dales, and what's what's so special about this Sandra Dales person? Like, I don't know. Okay, he wasn't around, he was traveling somewhere at the time. But I eventually got to meet Sander and I could see the specialness that they that they were talking about. Sander was one of the most generous, thoughtful, funny um human beings who had a unique way of bringing people together. And I don't think that I would have been as successful in my role and eventually moved with Juniper to Hong Kong, from Hong Kong to the United States, if it wasn't for him and his impact on me and my career. I really I just I just don't. I mean, he was so um he was he he he he had a unique way of bringing people together that impacted them in the most positive of ways. And I could see it permeating through the similarity permeating through all of the relationships that that he had. Anyway, um not long after I moved to the United States, he moved back to New Zealand. And um, unfortunately, I heard by way of a phone call just after Christmas a couple of years ago that Sander had passed away. And suddenly he was mowing the lawn, he wasn't even 50 years old, and and he killed over and and died. And I still remember the emotions that I felt at that time. It felt, and I actually actually it was a gut punch. It was an emotion that I had never experienced before in my life. And this was the fifth person that had passed away for me in the in the previous kind of 18 months, two years, all of whom were very close to me, not just my parents, but for for other people that I had worked with. So I jumped on a plane the next day and went to New Zealand to be with his family. Um, and I ended up being in New Zealand for about four weeks to close out things with them that I felt like I needed to do for him and my love for him. And Sammy, I'll never forget being at his funeral. And I swear he whispered, I heard this voice in my ear. Um, impact is everything. And that's why I wrote one of the that I linked that to not only him personally, but also the impact that he had had on my life, and also the impact that he had had on so many others' lives. And he was one of the mainstayers of any time I had a gig in Hong Kong, he was there shouting and cheering me on from the back. Um and from a professional perspective too, he was in every single class that I ran with him and his team on management and leadership development, cheering me on from the sidelines, you know, from a career development perspective as well. So I needed to give him homage in in the book. And that's it was him that really um provided this this these words of impact is everything. Um, you know, I literally heard them at his funeral. I heard them coming out of his mouth, so to speak, whispered in my ear. So impact is everything. And I think management. management have managers and leaders have such a profound opportunity to impact people's lives in the most positive of ways andor the most negative of ways. And I've seen both. And I think that that's the reason that's one of the reasons that I I finished the book. I'd started the book well before meeting Sandra, but um I definitely wanted to finish the book because I knew that people needed to make more conscious decisions to either get into management roles or not. And whichever way they decided to go was right for them that was ultimately important because of the either positive or negative impact they could potentially have on other people. But that's one of the mainstay of things that I talk to potential new managers about that they need to be more aware of you know you're going to impact people in your management and leadership career whether you want to or not um so you need to think about it before you even decide to jump into that into that role. And I think it's one of the most important things as well as you know all of the other many and varied skills that go into being great leaders or great managers. And I come up with I came up with about 22 of them. There's a lot and I think for managers and leaders or individual contributors thinking about a journey into a management role to think about um all of the skills that they need to create which are so different from from that of an individual contributor. You know it's it's I did a LinkedIn post today actually along the lines of it's not just it's it's not just going to a new level in a game it's actually a completely new game that you are taking on in taking on a management role. And I don't think a lot of people realize that as much as they should so there are the couple of things that that I talk about um to get people really start thinking along the right lines of is this something that they want to do or not? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Jojo when you're talking about Sunder and I feel so blessed to hear more of that story. And when you're talking about him it sounds like there's integrity and gentlemanly aspects that he was known for I was talking to someone recently and there were a facilitator struggling to make sure that the executive were turning up for workshops to lead their people and it was such a disappointment that there was that uh angst around it and it sounds like Sunda was just rock solid just could always be relied upon and in life and in business that's very cool to be around and it's also less noise because you just know you don't have to do extra emailing extra checks you just know that they're going to be there.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yeah and and I think no matter what level of management you are at either whether you're leading a a management team um you've always got something to learn. And I think visibility is really important as well that's that was one of the very special things that we had at Deloitte to a certain degree but definitely at Juniper was pretty much every training program I ran, I was there for seven years doing a lot of training in a lot of different content the managers or leaders were always in the room and that they would tell me afterwards that they learned so much from the experience even though you know they already knew how to give feedback or they already knew how to have difficult conversations or they might have you know already have known you know whatever it was about the content, how to facilitate meetings or you know whatever the content we were doing but they always learned something and and that is to me another important skill of being a great manager is to continue with that humility you know and knowing that no matter how well rounded you are because your skills are so important as a manager as we've already talked about you need to still be open to learning to learning more and particularly learning more from your team that you know they they would often you know learn things personal and professional things about their teams and enter in we'd enter into some really interesting conversations as I'm sure you have as well in the programs that you have run, you know, you can never anticipate what's going to come up because it's people and they're human. So I always found that their presence was appreciated and acknowledged by their team because it was basically telling their team how important the learning of these skills were no matter what level of the organization you were at. I've always been frustrated as you know that I think there's a lot of companies that throw people into management roles without necessarily giving them the skills and the competencies that that they need in order to be successful. There's a lot of companies that don't do that but there's also a lot of companies that do that take it you know very seriously and obviously you and I have always strived to work with and for those kinds of organizations as well. And that's what struck me when you were talking about the hospital and your role at the moment Jojo that you always are learning always curious so it puts you in good stead to be expanding your knowledge expanding your awareness I think especially yeah especially in the in the the healthcare industry I think there's a lot of opportunity you know we've got great nurses and great doctors but um these kinds of human type skills are not maybe as taught as readily as the important you know competency or capability related skills that are strictly uh as you know for their for their roles so that's why I think it's definitely my blessing to to be able to be in that.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

I was going to ask you about what you've observed having lived in different countries other than the one you were born in. I also want to expand that question around uh different places that you've worked because you just had me remember Deloitte days and thinking about the difference between that or Amazon or Juniper or other places that you've worked and where you're working now in a different industry. So do you want to talk to countries or works work places?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Tell me some yeah well it it it is interesting isn't it you know it's it's funny Samai you know where where do these thoughts come from as it relates to your career right you know I mean we've all had career guidance career counseling you know that kind of stuff maybe it starts in high school or whatever I don't know but eventually we have an inkling as to which direction we might want to go and and and you know some of us might go down and get a degree or get some qualifications in that area and then find out that maybe that's not what we want to do and that's fine too because I think at the end of the day it all comes together quite miraculously um so anyway yes so I woke up one morning when I was about 18 19 years old and the thought came into my head that one day I wanted to live and work in a country where English was not the first spoken language. I have no idea where that came from because you know I'd lived in Australia my whole life I um had traveled a little bit but not that not that much I I I've only ever learned one language and that being you know English Australian right so I don't know I don't know where this came from Australia. So yeah but um I'd I always had this in in the back of my mind and um you know 40 years or 30 years later actually no probably 20 years later after that thought um I find myself in an opportunity to move to Hong Kong and live and work there. And I'd never been to Hong Kong in my life I'd I'd worked um I'd I'd never I should actually I'll backtrack from that I had been to Hong Kong for work with Deloitte. But as far as what it meant to live there I did I had no idea I didn't know anybody there at the time but I want to live I'd wanted to live and work in a country where English was not the first spoken language. So it was about as different culturally from Australia as I think I could possibly get to the language is extremely complicated. But I thought you know why not so I think from you know that experience um one of the main realizations was actually two one is that people are people and while the people in Australia that I had met up until that point in time were the most important and significant in my life the people that I was going to meet in Hong Kong now looking back, Sandra being one of them was another one of the most significant changes in my life as well and you know people for me are a gift even if for some if even if I even for some of the most challenging relationships that I might have had in my life looking back on those relationships for good for bad or indifferent have been an absolute gift because they've made me the person that I am today and appreciate and more appreciative now for the people that I have in my life today no matter how long I've known them like people like yourself obviously for over 25 years or something which still blows my mind because I never thought I would get that old um so I think the gift of people has been one of the most interesting elements of living and working in another country. And I think the other thing that I learned is the importance of communication my my actual integration from Melbourne to Hong Kong was actually a lot less challenging surprisingly than my integration from Hong Kong to the United States where I found the culture in and the similarities in the culture from moving from Melbourne to Hong Kong um was I don't know I mean it's a completely different culture. I don't know why I'm thinking that way but the but the the cultural challenge between Australia and and the United States was a lot more challenging and difficult for me than the cultural shift between Melbourne and um even though we spoke the same you know arguably they speak English in America I say that because there's so many Americans that don't understand some of what I'm saying but I I make fun of it and and they love it. Like every American I've met pretty much has been fascinated by Australia and Australians. So that's an absolute gift. So I've always got that as a mainstay you know even when I start up I I start our orientation program uh here in in the States for you know new highs coming into the hospital and we give them a gift on day one of a a food voucher you know so we we shout them lunch and um I say we're gonna shout you lunch today and I get funny looks I'm like why would you shout at me? It's like I'm not gonna I'm gonna shout you I'm gonna buy you lunch right you know I have to kind of explain with colloquialism of of what that all means um which is kind of funny and and insightful I guess for folks to know that you know I'm now you know very happily married to my 14 uh for 14 years to my fifth generation American husband and it's it's some insight into some of the conversations that he and I have had in the past. But anyway I I digress. So the cultural challenge uh was a lot more difficult coming to the States and I'm not really quite sure why I think um the the the feeling of um being part of something like the collectivism that is Asia compared to the individualism that is the United States was something that I very much struggled with. Everybody in Asia that I met was very much come with us, come and join us, come out for a dinner, you know, come out for drinks like it was just part of our day whereas in the United States everybody tended to kind of disappear back to their homes. And so the single girl that moved here um it was very was very lonely particularly compared comparative to to the collectivist nature uh of the culture in Hong Kong. But anyway I'm you know well and truly integrated here now and that was back in 2011 so 15 years ago. But yeah the what I was getting to around communication as much as I didn't speak the local language in Hong Kong there was this collective communication element that was very helpful. I did everything I could to learn as many languages when I was living in Hong Kong I I felt that it was on me because I'd moved there to learn as much about their culture. So you know I'd go to China and I'd say Sheshe, you know, which is thank you obviously in Mandarin and Goisai for Cantonese to say thank you very much and um I was in Japan and I I struggled a lot with the Korean language. I'm sorry for the Koreans out there but I just could not I don't know I I struggled with that but I did make as much of an effort as I could to communicate um without learning full language scripts but enough to at least be polite in Asia. But moving to the States um yeah I felt like there was much more of a language barrier here and a communication barrier here than what I'd experienced in Hong Kong which I found really curious personally.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

And it it strikes me that you you can never theorize around those or hypothesize around those unless you've done the travel and the living in different places like you have done. I always thought that when I traveled Jojo that I needed to know thank you what was it there was about five different words and one of them was excuse me because each time like if you knocked a bag or if you like knocked someone accidentally I'd always be like oh excuse me in English and then I'd be like that's not helpful it's so true Sam right you know you yeah I think I would just use like if if that happened to me in China I would just say Shay and I think it's like it's it's a hello it's an I'm sorry it's a please forgive me you know I have no idea what I'm doing especially the laughter I have no idea what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Yeah I love hearing that is I remember being I remember being in Japan Sam we were running an orientation program and I'd learned in high in high school actually I learned a little bit of Japanese so I learned to count from one to ten.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

So um I would tell my participants in in Japan that they had five more minutes to complete a task and I would say Ichini Sanchi go go go is uh five so I would say go minutes as if to say five more minutes you've got to complete this exercise and then and the most delightful Japanese would write in my evaluations Joanne should not try and speak Japanese that's humility.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

But another story in Japan I was talking to some colleagues uh the other day about Japan I was in Japan um and well I was actually in Hong Kong and I it was around about 2006 I want to say folks might remember there was a huge earthquake in Tokyo and um I'd heard about the earthquake and I cared about obviously my colleagues in in Tokyo and I wanted to make sure that they were okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

So um I ran I rang my business partner in uh in Tokyo her name was Takako and um I rang her on a cell phone and I and she answered and I said you know Takako son are you okay I'm hearing that there's earthquakes in in in Tokyo I just want to make sure you're okay and she said something along the lines of um oh Joanne she said the the the walls are moving around me like you know um paper and I'm safe i'm I'm standing under a a door frame but joanne do you mind if I call you back go son go do what you have to do um but it was just so polite um and and just so respectful chaos right in the middle of at of of chaos of this chaos that she was in in the middle of this earthquake.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

She ended up so much to appreciate about people right and about communication. She ended up walking home six hours I think that night because the whole Tokyo subway was um was closed down and thankfully she was she was fine but you know these are all all of the stories that we're talking about and you know you're in my relationship as well so it's it's the people that impact our lives and for good for bad are indifferent and I I just um you know on my on my tombstone I think will be this you know impact is everything because I think that people just don't pay enough attention to the potential impact that they that they might have on others. And by the way Sam I'm not saying I'm perfect under any shape or form but I do I do try. And I think if we all had a little bit more awareness and maybe tried a little bit harder to understand the impact that we have on others that we would all communicate better and we would ultimately have better human relationships at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Well said Jojo and tell me do you want to talk a little bit about what you learnt through that process of losing five people in too short a time and or um a bit more about impact. Jojo do you want to talk about even uh I would actually love to to hear about your some of the surprises you might have had because of your impact on others to have seen some little twinkling comments that people might have said. I know that you're a very humble person so it's probably hard to extract this from you. But um yeah tell me a little bit more about either what you learnt through the grieving process andor um a bit more about impact I I think um yeah I get emotional when I think about some of this stuff Sam because it's you know we like I said we all try to have the most positive impact and sometimes I don't think we realize some of the impact that we have on others for good for bad or indifferent but you know I like to focus on the positive.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

So I um I went through quite a tumultuous time most recently In my my current role, it was a change in leadership and it was hard. And I walked into work one day, and one of my clients, so to speak, right? One of the leaders that I work most directly with had a gift for me. And she had been at a local fair of some description. And that person someone there had been selling some organic, natural, like skincare products, right? Exfoliant products or something like and clay masks or whatever for the face. And um, and I walked into work and this client person was walking towards me with like a little gift bag, and she said, I know you've been through it and a beautiful card as well. And it was, I know you've been through some challenging times lately. I was, I was thinking about you and thought you might like this to pamper yourself and and make yourself feel better. And I'm like, Well, I why was this person thinking about me on the weekend? You know, I mean, we'd had a couple of conversations, but it wasn't, you know, I I it wasn't a long-term relationship. I'd only met this person a few months before, but clearly I'd have it had enough positive impact on her for her to be thinking of me over the weekend and and and decide to do something nice for me to make my life easier. Um, and that meant the world to me, you know. And then I thought back on some of the conversations that I had had with her and maybe some of the coaching kind of comments that I had made, and really I made a difference. And that just meant the absolute world to me that I had I had had that positive impact on another human being in my life. So that was pretty special. Um I think sometimes people surprise us with that, you know, beautiful gifts, or you know, I I notice I'm your one to be sending little cards or little gifts or you know, and it's just really nice to get them in the mail and go, oh man, that's you know, thank you. That's so sweet. Exactly, right? In in the most positive of ways. So with that, you know, I could I could definitely take a leaf out of your book, right? And start sending a few more little thank you notes, or I'm thinking of you in a really nice way, or a little gift, or whatever. You know, I try to, but um, I probably could I probably could take a leaf out of this person and your book as it relates to as it relates to that.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Um we can always grow and I know that you I know how much you care from the WhatsApp messages that I get from you.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Yeah, that's true, the little ad hoc ones that come through from time to time.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

But there's nothing there's something special about receiving a gift or something physical in the mail, you know, whether it's a little card or you know, I know you've made me some things in the past and sentence.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Well, I had some I had trouble the other day, Jojo, because I wanted to send something to a friend in South Africa and she doesn't have postage, there's no not at all any post. And uh as much as I've heard of different uh you know going on in South Africa, just that basic uh delivery of something that I might want. I hadn't thought about that not being available in some in a place like that. So that uh that's being held in Australia uh waiting for her to come and visit.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

And it'll happen, I'm sure. I'm sure. I think that um you know that that saying what are we in life if not the impact we have on others that I created for my book and one we've talked about today, I wonder the the the one thing that I took out of those five people passing away, Sandra being one of them, um, was Joanne, did did I really appreciate them while they were in my life as much as I think I wanted them to know? And I think in some instances, yes. Um but I probably could have done more of that as well. Um on the whole, I'm I'm very happy in in terms of how I've left or they left literally um the the relationship. But I always think that there is something that more that we could do just to thank the people around us for being in our lives um because their presence is a gift. And you know what, on the other side of things, if there are people in our lives that are maybe not as positively impactful for us, to do the right thing by them and us to create appropriate boundaries of psychological safety between us and them in the most respectful possible way that we that we can. And one of those five people that passed away, I I had created that healthy boundary with for a long time. And hearing about their death was really quite significant, um, obviously. And while I did, I I I did have some appreciation for them being in my life at certain times, there was a point where I had to create a healthy boundary to go, you know what, no, I I can't have you in my life anymore. Um, it doesn't mean that they had less or more impact on me when they passed away. But even for people that might have a negative impact on our lives and were able to create those healthy boundaries around, they've still been in our lives for a reason. You know, the old adage of a reason, season or a lifetime. Um, I would, there's still elements of my relationship with that person that I can still be very thankful for in hindsight. Um, and their death was still a significant death. It just wasn't, you know, all of the the most positive of relationships or what it for what it could have, or possibly what it could have ultimately been had I been been different. Um I'm talking more specifically about my father right now, my biological father. Um but yeah, still some very happy memories there, but a lot of very challenging ones as well. So, you know, your parents are your parents. I I I do wonder, you know, I know that there's a lot of um spiritual very different spiritual beliefs out there, um, particularly as it can be related to the relationships that we have with our significant others, in particular our parents. Um and I still think that you know, in some way, shape, or form, I had something that I needed to learn from the relationship with my father. It's um it's it's just one of those things, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Um Jojo, you are so gracious. Uh I appreciate you talking about that. And one of the things that came to mind was when friends recently have been going through hard times, I've often said, number one, it is enough for you to be on this planet. And sometimes I think we can forget that. I sort of have this sense these days that people are actually just articulating more quickly or more often the thoughts in their head of appreciation and love for others. Could just be the people that I'm around, but I do think the increase there's increasing frequency, JoJo.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

I mean, there's a common data here.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to cover?

SPEAKER_03 52:37

You know, Sam, it's just I'm just so proud of you and um, you know, all of these amazing natural genius podcasts that you have been putting together with such professionalism and humility and thoughtfulness. I, you know, every single one of them I listen to is is unique because you know, you're unique and you bring out some of the most amazing uh elements of uniqueness, and might I say natural genius in other people.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Natural genius. You might like such such a brilliant uh term of a phrase.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

I love it that you know I really believe that everybody has some element of natural genius in them and what a gift you are in enabling that to come out on such a wonderful uh podcast series. So cheers to you. I want to make sure that we acknowledge that as well. Um, because in my mind, you are probably one of the most natural geniuses in my life that I've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

So high five, my friend. You know, very excited, very excited for you.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

And you know, I hope that everybody listening is aware of the fact that you know, whether they've been able to tap into it yet or not, it's there. It's it's it's there, and just to keep being curious, you know, hindsight, as I say, is the perfect science, but I I do find that all of the positive, negative, challenging, wonderful, amazing, whatever experiences that I've had in my life have ultimately all happened for a reason and have gotten me to where I am right now. And I'm thankful for that every day, even the more challenging ones. And I know it's cliche to kind of say, well, bad things happen to good people, or bad things might happen for a reason. I really think that they do. They're just tougher to deal with when we're going through them. But when we do get through them, better things are on the horizon. We're we're arguably better people, better humans for them, and better humans for other people for them.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

So I uh I'm in awe, and I love that your natural genius just some of it is encapsulated. There's way more that we could have gotten into. Everyone has a lot of facets to them, and it's so lovely to honour. Diamonds are rough. Thanks, Jojo. Thank you, Sam. Thanks for listening to the Natural Genius podcast. Please share this with anyone who's come to mind and visit us at naturalgenus.com.au. Thanks so much.