#55 - Lucas Maddy: Practical Wisdom, Bitcoin, and Life Beyond the Screen

In this episode, Sam Bell speaks with Lucas Maddy about practical wisdom, Bitcoin, AI, music, self-reliance, focus, friendship, and designing a life that stays connected to the real world.

Lucas brings a rare mix of farm practicality, technical literacy, musical feeling and care for how people live with technology. He created Man Camp at Network School, teaching practical skills, responsibility, agency and confidence through hands-on work. He also helped bring music alive through School of Rock, and now works with The Bitcoin Conference.

This conversation moves from “measure twice, cut once” and the wisdom of physical work, to AI agents, work identity, screens, blue light, Bitcoin, trust, sales, music, camping, bird calls, Do Not Disturb, humility and the joy of noticing what is right in front of us.

At the centre is a beautifully useful question:

What do you want your life to be?

Guest bio: 

Lucas Maddy is a musician, practical teacher, Bitcoin thinker and program coordinator at The Bitcoin Conference. He has worked across agriculture, finance, startups, blockchain, sales, leadership development and whole-life technology. At Network School, he created and facilitated leadership and practical skills programs designed to increase agency, integrity, teamwork and meaningful living.

This episode explores:

• "Man Camp" at Network School, practical skills and why capability builds agency
• “Measure twice, cut once” as a life principle
• Bitcoin, proof of work and the value of doing the thing
• AI agents, work identity and what remains human
• Music, shared energy and creating more than consuming
• Screens, focus, blue light and choosing more time outside
• Trust, sales, integrity and relationship-building
• Humility, older wisdom, circadian rhythm and noticing signs

Guest links

• Lucas Maddy’s wisdom and music: https://linktr.ee/Callous.Music
• Lucas on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucasmaddy/
• Lucas’ Bitcoin Study Podcast: https://x.com/bitcoinstudypod
• Bitcoin Study Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PcEV2hBalDLBeaLjEbwDf
• Bitcoin Study Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BitcoinStudySessions

Conversation mentions

• Edge City: https://www.edgecity.live/
• Edge Esmeralda: https://www.edgeesmeralda.com/
• Jake Randall’s Natural Genius episode: https://youtu.be/3TmQv7kb4LU
• Dr Jack Kruse: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4fjDRjOR7kaMSYEeO1ebU7?go=1&sp_cid=5741edb10bc9069909f3cd7d27a3b4e7
• Jack Kruse: https://jackkruse.com/
• Network School: https://ns.com/samanthaleebell/invite
• NOSTR: https://nostr.how/en/get-started
• The Natural Genius of Aunty Barbara Schacht Randall, who inspires more humility in each experience: https://youtu.be/ww08BIyQEGg

Chapters

00:12 Lucas Maddy: practical wisdom, music and Man Camp
01:59 Man Camp, tools and “measure twice, cut once”
06:16 Self-reliance, responsibility and what we trade away
10:41 AI agents, work identity and human experience
17:32 Creating, consuming, music and shared energy
23:09 Camping, screens and staying close to nature
32:55 What do you want your life to be?
40:29 Offline life, humility, focus and noticing the signs

Explore further

Discover your Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Edge Esmeralda, 13 June, 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 13 - 17 June, 2026

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast. We're here to help you tap into your natural genius. Let's go. Lucas Maddie has a fantastic combination of skills that you might need at the moment. He's technically wise, curious, very practically wise, having been raised on a farm. He is a quiet, aware, uh and sometimes loud as a musician person. We met at Network School in 2025 and he put on Man Camp, a workshop series that taught practical skills, and it was so amazing to see the transformation in participants. He was like a brother, uncle, dad figure to many, and that covered not just the practical wisdom, it also covered the psychological providing a listening ear to many. And he also put on the School of Rock as a musician, helped to get the musical sounds pumping on a Thursday night. An amazing all-rounder. I hope you enjoy this lovely conversation with Lucas Maddie. Lucas, welcome to the Natural Genius Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

We were just talking about camping out last week, you and a dear friend of ours in California.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I was reflecting prior to us catching up about how you played a father, uncle, brother role to many when you ran your man camp at network school and taught people practical wisdom and also provided a listening ear. It still goes on, my friend, with a camping trip last week. Tell me what you loved about that experience of running the madness that was man camp and why you did it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah. Running man camp at network school, it's the most natural thing that I've ever done, as far as I was just doing what I thought needed to be done. There was a sauna that needed to be put together, there was a cold punch that needed to be set up, there were things that needed to be moved, and I knew how to turn a wrench. And so you know, they came to me and asked me to put together a curriculum, make it something that would be worthwhile. And I got to basically just teach all the stuff that my dad taught me, right? But also do it with a an intention of uh taking something of wisdom from it, you know, like uh when you're a digital creator, making copies is really cheap. You can try and iterate again and again and again for effectively no cost, but if you're making a table, uh that would cost a lot of money. Those screws cost money, you know, it takes it's a lot of time. And so you know, measure twice, cut once, you know, like you have to be uh cognizant of your resources and as that applies to life, like cognizant of your time as a resource, the only thing that you can't you can't get more of. So um I wouldn't say that man camp was entirely madness, but it was hilarious. Like I remember giving a I remember giving a power drill to an Indian kid, and I I go like okay, like screw this screw into this board, and he put the screw on the board like you'd put a nail up there, and he took the drill and you started beating the screw with it. And I was like, Oh no, this is not how this works.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

So like the sorry interject, the the madness that I was referring to was the logistics beforehand, trying to get all of the different uh that you needed probably starting.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Found myself in the back alley of Joe Horbaru trying to I try I pet a stray dog and it bit me. Uh that was hilarious. I made friends, made friends with this old man that was running an equipment store, and he uh he made me sit there and eat crackers and crackers. What did I have? Crackers and something, crackers and nuts, I think. While he went and got all this stuff, and then just like learning about the difference in quality. So like things that I would just never in my mind imagine could be a worthy product. Like I I bought work gloves, and he told me, well, these work gloves are intended to be used one time and then thrown away because they're made out of like scraps and plastic and all sewn. Like each each glove was like 80 different pieces of like scrap or you know, like it just looked like somebody had taken trash and sewn it together. Or uh I got jacks in order to hold up a car so that we could change the tire on a car. And he said, Well, these are Malaysian jacks. Um, you're gonna use these three or four times and you're gonna throw them away because they're gonna go bad. And like, this is the thing that's supposed to keep a car from falling on me, and you're telling me it's disposable. Like, yeah, so there's a you know, but that uh that's what when you have when you have a society like that where a kingdom like that, where basically everything is taken care of for you, and granted it's not done incredibly well, but you don't have to do it. You know, you end up with these instances where people just lose the ability to take care of themselves. Um I searched for when I so the you remember this, but being over there, the the Amazon equivalent in Malaysia is called Lazata, like where you go online to shop for things. And I needed rope because we were gonna make Larriettes, and I needed nails because we were gonna hammer stuff in. And I I searched nails, and the only thing that came back was acrylic press-on nails for women. Like you could literally just couldn't buy nails because people don't do projects like that. I searched rope, and the only thing that came back was rope for like bondage, like BDSM stuff. Yeah, it's a big difference from being in Kansas, just being able to drive up to a hardware store and get what you need.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

You know, do you think in Malaysia that they've lost the ability, or do you think that they might have had other skills and other ways of being able to do things? Because my experience in Asia is lots of ingenuity and innovation because they just put stuff together and uh make things happen.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah, things that people they they're just forced to by necessity. Asia, I think, is is a lot like this. In the United States, it's becoming much more like this, but I don't think it's necessarily that they lost it. I think it's that they traded, they traded that ability. You know, um, I'm gonna I'm gonna trade the responsibility of you know maintaining my systems and building my fence and fixing my car. I'm gonna trade that for some sort of security or comfort that you, you know, you say you provide. I think it was Benjamin Franklin, I can't remember who it was that said uh those that would trade a little freedom for security deserve neither and will get neither. Because once you start handing over your freedom, you know, anything that you outsource to somebody else, they're going to do it in a way optimized to their incentives, not yours. Right? So, you know, like think about like universal healthcare, like that's a great idea, it's a fantastic idea, but it gets optimized in a different direction towards you know, towards whoever the administrator is. You know, you can you get your you get your free, but you may wait two years for it, you know, or whatever, or or it may just be shit quality, right? And that's kind of the same thing, or like in America where where people eat out all the time and they get fast food and stuff. It's like I'm gonna trade the time that it takes me to prepare food, but what I get in return is obviously a lower quality product that is slowly poison poisoning me. So yeah, it's uh everything's a trade-off.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

And it's so interesting for you too, Lucas, having grown up on a farm, because you've had that practical wisdom and knowledge that you've developed from an early age, and then you've added other skills and learnings and experience on top of that. Many don't have that start in life to be able to sort of be aware, and that's what Man Camp was about, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's really fortunate. I, you know, I didn't think about it growing up, you know. It felt it felt the opposite, right? Like it felt like everybody else had like a big screen TV and a trampoline and a Nintendo, and we didn't have any of that. I was always jealous of that, and I wanted that stuff, but um then when you leave that and you go traverse the real world, um it having that grounding in like this is and it's a Bitcoin thing, but just like proof of work, having that grounding in like doing the work to get the result, as opposed to trading, you know, trading away your security, trading away your freedom, trading away your responsibility or rights or whatever. You just see that everywhere, and you just look at like this is just ludicrous. Like the, you know, like we were talking earlier, like the modern, the modern workplace now is 90% of your job is listening to other people talk about what they did, telling other people what you did. And then the remaining 10% is when you actually do your job. But mostly it's just I heard somebody call the modern the modern uh workplace uh adult daycare, and there's just no way that I can ever think of it in any other way now. You know, like the company, the company I put up that I work for, they put up uh they put up a leaderboard of who used the most emojis on Slack. And I was you know, like like it's like you know, when you're a kindergartner and they have the little stickers or your first grader or whatever, they have the little stickers for who the good kids are, you know. It's like that's it. Like you know, if it was me, I would just be like, those are the 10 people that you should fire immediately. Like clearly they are not working. Like they've just identified.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Although it's a bit more emotionally led. You said before that you the current role that you're doing, Bitcoin was cheap, so you wanted to find some work. That was my motivation. That that motivation, Lucas, you are would be in a minority, and it is so fascinating to hear. I'd love others to hear it. We're in this like real kind of fragmented, disrupted time where there's the madness of like people trying to get AI agents to work for them, and sometimes that can lead to loads of looping, and sometimes it can lead to loads of success of being able to automate stuff, and then it can actually help people both with their role, but also to uh transform business areas and businesses uh and build new businesses from all the vibe coding stuff that's happening as well, and kind of the old school businesses for the last 20-30 years, like their style that still keeps on going, and then they're adding in digital on top of that. And so the 90% you referred to before and of uh communicating and letting people know, and the 10% of getting stuff done, it just feels like a really interesting time in in business, and it's an identity, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

It's an identity crisis, you know. You're as you are initiating these AI agents and working with you know collaborations, you know, I'm gonna collaborate with AI. Um, what you're doing is you're systematically compartmentalizing your role into things that on the whole of it you thought it was like this is my job, I do this. But when you when you incorporate these agents and and work with uh work with uh additional systems, then what you find is that basically your role is just a bunch of discrete tasks that are all automatable, and that you are effectively the error in the system, you're the thing that keeps it from working efficiently, and the more of yourself that you can get out of it, the more efficiently it'll work. Now, efficient is not necessarily good, right? Like Burger King's efficient, McDonald's is efficient, but it's not it's not good. Um and so that's why you end up with this it you have a lot of people, uh especially in the United States. Well, I won't even say I actually I will say, especially in the United States, um, when you meet somebody, you ask them who are you, and they respond with what they do, not who they are. You know, I'm a lawyer, I'm an accountant, I'm a I do insurance, I'm a doctor, whatever. What that's not who they are, it's where they trade, it's you know, it's the place where they trade their time in order to get resources to substantiate a lifestyle, but you know, it's not it's not who you are as a person. It's not, you know, like don't you have a hobby, you know, like do you fly fish, do you crochet, do you do anything? Like the point of living is not to, you know, uh what we're finding out. Yeah, see, there you go. So you crochet. So, you know, but when you're live living is basically you're you're uh you're sacrificing your time to get some money to support whatever lifestyle you want to lead. And we're just all increasingly living the same lifestyle, right? We're watching the same stuff, we're um eating the same food, everybody's um trying to live in the same, like all houses look as look alike, cars all look alike, you know. Like they that's why like a cyber truck stands out because it doesn't look like anything else, yeah. But it's just it's this unmooring from solid ground of what you thought you were. Like if you place your entire existence upon who being being a doctor or be like being a diagnostician, that's a great example, like being a diagnostician, and then here's an AI update that actually does your job way better, like not just a little bit better, but way better. And it does it for one one millionth of the cost, and it does it all night long, and it never complains, it never gets sick, it never gets sad, you know, it never has a has a bad day. Um then how do you who you've defined yourself by, I am this, I am what I do, when you realize that what you do is just this set of discrete automatable tasks, then how do you how do you come to grips with that change in reality? And you know, it's a it necessitates a return to consciousness and experience, you know, actually actually experiencing something.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

So well said. And sometimes I've used the example of a nurse in the middle of the nightway through their you know, halfway through their midnight shift, would uh when people are really not convinced about uh well when they've got the real dystopian view of bots or robots or um AIs, I sort of tease them with how's the empathy in the middle of the night halfway through a night shift of a nurse that if it was a robot. I think we're heading into really different uh perspectives. And it's I often say it's like social media years gone by, like people were so against it, and now they're just it's prolific, and people have their good and bad views on it, but it is uh integrated in lots of ways, or digital, not just social media. And so I wonder also from what you were saying, that the consciousness piece is interesting because what I'm noticing personally with AI agents is that if I can get that efficiency going, then I find that I'm tapping into more parts of my brain or soul or consciousness than I may have been before. And you just said before, have you got a hobby? Uh and yeah, I I really do think that this next phase in humanity is actually getting deeper into what the individual desires or uh who they are, like just if you can and and I sort of reflect on the industrial age and then the digital age, and then just think uh I still think back to those cartoons of the early 90s that had the guy at work with his foot on the desk, feet on the desk because the computer was doing it all for him. And I'm like, come on, well, let's bring back that attitude. Like, let's get back to the start of the 90s when suddenly now we've got AI agents and other things that can actually bring about the automation, and then we get deeper into the uh soul or consciousness of each individual.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, but let's get away from the computer and let's get away from the desk and let's go outside. You know, they the like you bring up a the great example is that the industrial revolution, you know, and the great story of like John Henry, who was battling the you know, the steam drill to see who could ban. And he in the end he won, but then he collapsed and died, right? Um you know, and the thing is you just you these things you actually cannot fight them, um, but you also do have a choice, and your choice is to be captured by them or to use them, right? So you can't you can use social media um and mindlessly scroll um and it's weaponized for that, it's very good at extracting your attention, or you can use it as a platform um in order to give yourself financial freedom. You know, this difference between consuming versus creating is really important because um for some people social media is a tool of liberation, you know. For you see all you see these accounts from like Africa and uh South America and China, you know, people in Indonesia, all over these tiny, you know, tiny villages, and they don't have anything, they don't have dirt floors, they don't have shoes, but they've got a cell phone and they've got an internet connection. And they're suddenly able to create vast amounts of revenue um from that by by using it, but only by being a creator, not by being a consumer. Nobody gets nobody gets rich or happy or healthy. Um nobody nobody f has a good relationship. No, like consuming social media does not make your life better. Um but producing it does. And I think it's just in the act of producing, you know, that like when I make music, I I actually really like that music is freely accessible because I I don't make my I don't make my music to make money on music. I make my music because I enjoy the feeling of playing music, and it is an experience that I can it's an experience that's amplified the more people whose energy joins in to listen, to participate, you know. So um but again, it's back to that consciousness, that experience of actually doing the thing that has value. It's not the putting it for sale or whatever that has value, it's the the act of actually doing the thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Popped into my mind when you were talking about uh that experience of music, doing yoga in a group class versus doing it at home.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

It's like I it always used to amaze me that I could do so much more when I was in a group class.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yep. You feel the energy, and like especially if you're doing a type of yoga that's like a set, like I used to do a lot of Hatha yoga, right? So it's the same 28 positions, and it's it's a set routine. And there would be days when the group was incredible and everybody was rock solid and everybody was hitting, and then there would be days where one person would start to wobble and another person, and you could just see it move through the room, right? I completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

And it's so funny, actually. I should bring this into the um conversation because it's very timely. So I've just recently started rock pool swimming, which before you and I catch up, I couldn't help myself. It was so beautiful. Uh, it's at dawn, and it's the natural rock pool that's formed that uh here in Australia that one of the councils uh maintains. And there's something about the collective there, there's strangers that or uh regulars that turn up there, Lucas. And so there's like a hello, hello, what's the temperature today? And da da da. So in sorry, I don't know Fahrenheit, but in uh Celsius it's somewhere between 14 and 19. So we're sort of pretty start of the winter here.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

And uh and then uh but one of the things that I've noticed in terms of like going back to talking about the collective in music and and in yoga is that I've had two amazing reactions. To that, Lucas. I've like felt the cold on my feet. You know, it's really kind of okay. Um, and then I'm stepping down, I'm going down steps, and then I'm launching myself into the salt water, and I just feel my whole being going, Oh my god, I'm in salt water. This because often you'd go for a swim in chlorine or you know, yeah. Uh, and then I just feel my being just get so excited, and then I look down through my goggles and I can see fish.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And like those two things you're talking about needing to be in life and in the experience, they're just such joyful experiences. And I think that we're getting into an age where we're gonna have devices like little little bits of technology around us, and I think also there is this drive to want to have these experiences in uh nature and getting out of the away from the blue screen or the the uh blue light or the the screens. Tell me more about how life is for you now after so many different experiences, because you've traveled, you've been a musician, you've worked in finance, you've been in web 3, you've lived in uh co-living places like network school. Tell me about life.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, um life is finding its way as it as it should. Um I think you just constantly iterate to find the thing that suits you. And what suits me now is I bought an awesome tent. I've lived in I've lived in my college, my college apartment was smaller than my tent, so it's like a massive luxury. And uh I've got a nice little campaign.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Can you stand up in this tent, Locust?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Oh yeah, because you're a tall man, so that's a good thought.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It sleeps, I think it sleeps six people is what it says, so it's it's way big, it's it's huge for me. Um but no, just this um this stage of my life where I am back in a corporate role, and uh so I do have to look at a bro, uh, you know, eat electronic shit all day long, is what my buddy says. But the blue screen of death, um, you know, you're or you're just staring at a computer screen all day. And so how do I balance that and stay somewhat in tune to nature? You know, it's not by living in a basement or in a big high rise, you know. I just I've been camping for two weeks now and I have no intention of stopping. So um I can go out there and watch the sunset, get up, play guitar, got kettlebells, got myself a little camp stove, got a star link so that when I need to connect to the world, I can. So yeah, I mean, yeah, you you want to see the sky at night. You want to remember that there's stars, you want to be able to sit and feel the wind on your skin and hear the birds. And um, you know, I I remember making a comment to somebody that it's it's crazy that I can identify a vehicle driving by and I can tell you whether it's an eight-cylinder, a six-cylinder, a four-cylinder, I can definitely tell you if it's gas or diesel. And I might even be able to tell you if it's a Chevy or a Ford or a Dodge, but I can't recognize birds by their sound. And one of those things is useful in life and the other is not. And um I think if we if we make an effort to be able to recognize more bird calls and fewer notification calls, like, oh ding, that's my that's my Instagram, ding, that's my Teams, that's my Slack, whatever, you know, because they all have slightly different tones. You know, I I look for a world where technology continues to progress, but the way that it progresses is by receding, is by removing itself from being this thing that I hold in my hands and I use my thumbs to talk, which it was completely unnatural, right? Or um having to carry around this thing that I've got um to talk to you on. Uh I look to a future where technology recedes further and further into the periphery and it allows us to be more human. And I know that there are people that are working on that. So I hope that they're the ones that uh I hope they find success. Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, if they don't, then we still need to, you know, you still need to take responsibility for yourself and remember that your phone has an off button and use it every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Tell me for those of uh those listening that don't know much about blue screens or don't know much about the effects, what why do you and your friend talk about needing to get away from them?

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

What's the I mean you and I are both fans of uh Jack Cruz and uh some of that thinking, Uncle Jack. Um tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

So, and and this isn't just from from learning from him, but from a lot of other, you know, research papers that I don't read the paper, but I'll read the act the abstract, you know, and just see, you know, what what's the effect here? Um you know there's there's actual physical effects, like um people are developing astigmatism, so they're developing misshapen eyeballs because they're constantly focusing on something that's like six inches to two feet away, and so you're losing your ability to focus at long distances, which by the way, is probably the thing that made humans able to survive, right? Is like we we're predators, we have eyes in the front, we're able to see things far away, and then we also have the cognition to plan uh to you know to avoid or to attack or or whatever. So that's one of them. But then there's the the dysregulation of your central nervous system by an outside force. And and and and that goes for everything. It's not it's not blu-rays, it's x-rays, it's Wi-Fi, it's you know, any any sort, like these things literally are waves of energy, they do impact your central nervous system. Um no one can tell you that they are harmless because they have not existed long enough for a lifelong study of any sort of magnitude. And then lastly, you just know it experientially. You spend all day on a computer screen, you've got no energy to do anything. Like you just sit and you're listless and you want to watch Netflix and order in. Um whereas if you're off, you know, take your calls on your phone, use a headset or whatever, walk in nature, whatever. Movement, movement begets movement. You know, once you overcome the inertia of sitting still, um, the more you move, the more you move. And the more you move, the better you feel.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

So yeah. I've noticed the difference when I am on the screen. Uh there's I try and get there's sunlight in my eyes first thing in the morning. And if I'm on the screen more, I need my glasses more. Whereas if I'm not on the screen very much, I don't need my glasses. Yeah, yeah. It's just such an obvious uh observational hack. Like I'd rather not have to use glasses. So I think um, and it's so fun because where I am at the moment, there's lots of I don't know if you have these birds in America, there's they're called willy wagtails here. They're black and white and they're cute, they're just little. You must have a look on Google when you when we're finished our conversation. But they uh they're little tiny ones with black and white, and then their tail just sort of swings.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

And so it's they're just but they keep on they're coming closer and closer. And also we've got there's uh called cockatoos, and there's uh uh I sometimes see I think that they might be red-tipped tails, and definitely yellow-tipped. I think they're red-tipped, they they fly in pairs, and I've recently seen just over maybe the course of about three weeks, two pairs flying together twice different times, and then yesterday I saw three yellow-tipped black cockatoos, and I got online and I was having a look at at what what they're known for, and they are known to like eat the top of uh like the canopy, so that they and there were some words around them being like the cleaners or something like that, and it was so sweet to sort of think of what role they play because they've got such a uh strong bird song, uh quite unique, and uh they're rare in my world. I haven't seen a lot of sightings of them, and uh, but it's it's nice to kind of as you say get to know the different bird song, and also being like by the coast where I am at the moment, there's um sea eagles, so it's fun to be able to see the bigger birds of prey. And oftentimes when I'm traveling to Lucas, I'll look up when I'm on highways because often it's where the birds of prey are, so you can often see these beautiful circling um eagles or other types. So you tell me more about your travels, Lucas, and and I think that you're such an interesting person around your awareness. Like, no wonder you could provide a listening ear to many in in your band in band camp, man camp at network school, because you're a good listener and also you've had lots of life experience. So tell me about life now. Like, what's what are you enjoying other than the tent? And uh how I guess maybe even what are your aspirations these days around what you'd like to see in your own life or what you'd like to see in the world. Well, there's probably a lot online about what you'd like to see in the world having with being a podcaster.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Um, those are good questions, though, because like what do you want your life to be is a lot better question than like what are you trying to achieve, whatever like that. You know, what are you building? Um because again, like we we go back to the earlier discussion of like all the things that you're building are gonna be rebuilt, and somebody's gonna perfect it, and they're gonna do it for one one thousandth of the cost. So you can't hinge your identity on what you on what you do. Um, you have to do something that creates an identity for you that is that is uniquely you, you know, and like for me, I found myself there's this intersection of I really like wisdom in easily accessible sayings. So I really like quotes. I really like to think about like um you know, that there's a saying, uh it's like, you know, I wrote you a letter, if I'd had more time, it would have been shorter, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

You know, like and you're a songwriter as well, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Like I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so like this this intersection of like the beauty of words and uh music, you know, being a songwriter, and then also of kind of just I guess taking a very sober view of what's coming, you know, this accelerating, um exponentially accelerating AI, robotics. You know, Nick Land is the guy who um identified this, and maybe somebody did before him, but you if you combine artificial intelligence and digital money and robotics, then what you've created is a loop of capital that doesn't require human input. And so um humans are the they are the error in that system, which is great, by the way, because that system really sucks. You know, that system that system of um maximizing money, it really sucks. And like I I feel like I can speak confidently on this because I I think you can. I was just well, I mean I grew up I didn't I didn't grow up like if you compare me to people from you know third world countries, then I I grew up like a king, but um in the US, uh you know it was I was fairly poor. Um, you know, sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

I yeah, I was thinking you came from a perspective, uh a learned perspective on that because you've gone so deep into money, like you've gone so deep into web three as well as your upbringing.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

That too, right, yeah. So, but like having having had the experience of not having much and having had the experience of having you know more than I need, um, then what I consistently see is that people that don't have much are happier, um, and people that have more than they need are confused and they are um conflicted. And so this, yeah, the just this idea, um, this system, this market, um it feels natural because we grew up in it, but also the dollar felt natural because you grew up in it, and then you came to realize that that was just a lie, like it's just an actual lie backed by violence. Um and it turns out that there does exist a different way, and we all get to explore that different way, kind of on our own. So, you know, like my past, like being a I was a wealth advisor, I was a banker, I worked for startups in sales. Um working in sales gives you a great insight into human psychology and relationship building and and understanding trust. And um, you know, people think of sales as this like short-term boiler room type of thing. Um, but the truth is that um if you break somebody's trust, they they just won't do business with you again. And so um you have to learn how to just be you know, high integrity, high agency, um, you know, be a person of your word, do what you say.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

I wonder if growing up on a farm, being around a small community, they didn't have integrity from the start.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah, like on uh so it's different. Yeah, you know, the like you grew up in a small town, like they know your name, and you carry the sins of your grandfather or your father with you because like you know, whatever dumb shit your dad did in high school, they think that you're the same thing. Um or you know, never thought of that. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, oh that's the Matty.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Oh my gosh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Every every little town just runs on gossip and and stuff like that. So you do like you how do you avoid that? Is yeah, you gotta you gotta stay in line. Uh of course nobody stays in line. So everybody's got everybody's got gossip.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

So you were talking about integrity. I'm sorry to interrupt. I get excited.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

No, um, anyways, yeah, like just like you're like you're right, like being from a small town actually did help me a lot with that because you just learn how to talk to people, you know, because you get to talk to people. You know, I I I feel for people that grew up in an apartment building, they didn't know their neighbors, and they, you know, they know their butcher and their baker or whatever, and that's about it. And the kids at school, like in town, everybody knows, you know, in a little farm, little farm town, everybody knows you. But yeah, as far as like how it applies to like taking that a further, like being in sales, um, and and and working that it's all all of sales is just like forming relationships with people. People do business with those that they know, they like, they trust, and they first have to get to know you. And so that's why you know I see a lot of people that are they're writing emails with Chat GPT or with Grok or something like that, and they're sending a lot, and they're because they send a lot, they get a certain amount of responses. But um your response, your rate, in so like for me, in terms of like I was always like exceptionally high at what you call closing. So like you get a prospect, take a prospect to be a customer, you know, it would usually take in the financial industry, it usually takes like between six and eleven touches, is what they say, you know, like reaching out. And for me, I I would do it in like two or three, um, pretty consistently. And uh and that's translated, and it's just because I you just you just have to really not give a crap about the outcome and just be engaged with the person in the moment. Um just care enough about them to give them your attention, right? And that that has yet to be perfectly simulated. And I think it probably will be to a certain extent, but the thing is it it still isn't gonna help you with the things that you really want. And like, you know, what do I really want? Well, I I really want a family, you know, I really want a wife, I really want children, I I really want uh a little farm, you know, I really want you know those things, and um uh you know, AI is not gonna help me uh form a relationship with uh with somebody that way. So yeah, you have to you have to look outside. It's crazy. By the way, it's crazy. I I realized this today. I was reading a book, and like the term offline, it's a thing now. And and the assumed is online, like when nobody talks about being online anymore. You used to in the 90s, you'd talk about being online, but now it's just that the default is being online and the weird thing is being offline, and you need to, I think, structure your life so that being online is the weird thing, and being offline is natural, because uh otherwise then you do you you fall in, you fall into screens, you fall into algorithms, and you lose your grip on not just reality, but literally who you are, you know, this underlying anxiety that's throughout the world.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

So, do you reckon I mean this is this has been such an amazing conversation. I love this format, and I wonder if having been a podcaster, you can completely understand. Uh, another friend that we met at network school said he must, when he was talking about natural genius, he was saying, Oh, I must start mine again because the ROI was ten times. Like he just said that it was just so much more than he might have expected running a podcast. So and this conversation is just another example of the pleasure of wonderful conversations. Do you think that you to me a sense that you're settled, Lucas? Do you have you got a beautiful pride about how much you've done and contributed and who you've been in life? I think there's so much at network school, you've got to be so proud of so many things that you created there. I don't know whether you can be objective enough about yourself to see that.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Um I don't think about it. I don't I don't really think about that at all. I uh the I I access it when it's useful. So like it is it is very impressive to other people to say I work for Bology Sur Boston. You know, that that is very impressive to other people to hear. Um and so uh I guess I I use that when I have to. Um but uh but no, I mean look, like you you gotta be if you start getting pri you know, pride, pride's a really horrific sin. Like it's a bad thing. It's genuinely the bad thing. It's good to be, I think um it's good to it's good to look at the things you've done as evidence that you can do other things, but pride in itself is is pretty useless. Um I think humor is way more useful, you know. Like what was that?

SPEAKER_03 43:19

I think humor is humor.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah, I mean like tell me more. Well, like I can I can talk about like I I worked for David Friedberg um at Climate Corporation, and I worked for Ball G Cerner of Austin at the network state, and I created this um man camp and I created a a music series that's still going that's uh blossomed into this huge thing, and um you know we had so many cool moments, but um you know, like I'm a dude camping in the woods. That's that's all I am. I I'm a dude with a guitar camping in the woods. I got some Bitcoin and I I like to read books. Like it's funny to think of it that way, because then it's like Like um I was just saying that with no expectations, there can be no failure. And having no expectations is really good because then you you can be surprised by anything, and surprise tends to be something that we view as good. Um whereas if you go into things with expectations, like oh, you know, I've I've done this, I've closed this many big deals, and I I manage this much money, and I've got a fancy suit, and I've got a fancy who who gives a shit, you know. That just makes you boring. You know, again, you're talking about the things that you um the things that you did as opposed to who you are. And like me, I'm just a guy camping in the woods with a guitar and a book. You know? Do you think that pride can come from your own metrics or your own so uh I I think I know what you're saying, but um I think so. Like I agree, actually. So there's a sense I I think what you're talking about is less pride and more fulfillment. Like a sense of fulfillment is something that you can get regardless of who's watching, you know, if you did something well, right? Um but I think pride is more of like a it's kind of like pricing, it's like a comparison metric. It's what we used to say, you know, oh, this person did this, I did this, how well does that match up to it, as opposed to I'm in my house, here's a door, this door is not hanging correctly, I'm gonna rehang the door, and now it closes perfectly. I have a sense of fulfillment from that, and that is a source, yeah, it is a source of pride, but it's not the kind of pride that you put on your on your on your LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

I it it reminds me about this kind of thinking around uh AI agents and going deeper into who we are through using them. And I was with an elder recently and she was saying that I in each moment I look for more humility. And I really I mean, I just don't you just love having great role models around I feel you mentioned before that short like quotes and short words that that's like such a beautiful through line for me right now. How do I bring more humility into each moment? It's just the coolest. So when I'm thinking about um uh fulfillment or pride, yeah, it's a it's a nice one. I just I wanted to say that to you, Lucas, those words around pride because it's uh it's always lovely to see in different friends their uh satisfaction or peace with themselves or a settled feeling because I seem to surround myself with people who get a lot of things done and do a lot of things in life.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah. Yeah, I mean if I have a source of pride, I I would say it's probably the friends that I have. You know, I I know some extraordinary people, and um that's that's really cool. And it's that's probably the thing that I can say is probably if if it is in any way a reflection of who I am, um, you know, to be associated with with good people, um, then then that's that's certainly a source of pride. I like the humility thing. I really do. Like um, another one is another little saying is like, what would your 85-year-old self think of you right now? Like the action that you're about to take, the decision that you're about to make. There's a reason why so much wisdom comes from so many old people. It's because they've they've gotten it figured out. Like, if you can go through life and still have meaning and purpose at the end of it, then you've obviously done something in order to orient your perspective of the world to give you that peace. And yeah, to find humility would be to constantly seek humility would be a fantastic use of anyone's time. And also, by the way, just look to the older people for not just your cues on wisdom, but look to them for how to live your day. They get up early, they go to bed early, they quit eating early, you know, they're active in the morning, they rest in the afternoon. You know, this is a good, this is a good thing. Um, you know, your body has a rhythm, your biology has a rhythm. Some of it is trained, um, but but some of it is is circadian, some of it's in, you know, it's natural. You do need to rest, and you do have periods of the day where you're cognitively sharper, you have periods of the day where your body is more um more ready to move. Um, and so try try and align with those natural, those natural occurrences.

unknown 49:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

That's one of the things I've loved seeing on X or Twitter in the last uh what would it be? Few weeks. I mean it comes and goes, it's a bit like uh different topics around Bitcoin or other cryptos. If you've been in it for a while, you're used to seeing the the those sort of disruptive comments come up, similar comments come up each few years. But uh on X recently, I've really enjoyed seeing people talking about productivity from a point of view of rest and recharge. So I just this week changed my uh day to three lots of 90-minute sprints with 20 minutes to 30 minutes in between. And uh yeah, I'm just I'm trying that as a hack, especially from the point of view of screen time as well.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Uh I think that um that could work work well with you 90%.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, that is yeah, exactly. But you know, that only you know this your sprints only work if those times in between you, you know, you put your phone down, you leave your laptop, you walk away. And then the times outside of that, you're completely off of it, you know. Um I actually here's a this is a I think this is a great recommendation. Um set your phone to black and white and put it on satellite mode, like airplane mode, um, so that uh it can't send or receive. And then if you want to use it just as a camera, because when it's set to black and white, you get a better view of contrast and you'll take way better pictures because you won't be um you won't be distorted by the by the colors. Um, but then you also you can have your camera, but you're also not subject to this constant ping ping ding ding. My phone has been on do not disturb since 2022, and I have no intention of changing it. There's been like three 15-minute periods outside of that where I took it off do not disturb because I knew that I was expecting a call, but you know, just again, like this is a thing, like it's it's all it all becomes Pavlovian, you know. It uh it's the cue that initiates a response, and you hear that ding and you grab for the phone and you do this, and you know, once you get into the state of when I check my phone, I also check X, when I check my phone, I also check Instagram, when I check, you know, I do this, I that, the other. You've lost your day. You know, it takes 20 minutes to get into a state of focus, and the average in the average knowledge worker changes their context every minute. So they're just literally going years without hitting a state of focus, and that's I think that's why you see so much trash.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

I love I love hearing about your phone being on Do Not Disturb since 2022. Mine's been on the January second. Yes, January 2nd was it?

SPEAKER_00 52:21

2022.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Hang on, why second rather than first? What happened?

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Uh so the second was my last day at my corporate role when I was a banker. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Wow. Yeah, mine's been on silent, but I think it's just funny because some people don't call or don't message because they see that it's on silent and they don't know that it's always on silence. Yeah, and the great nice. I feel like I don't get interrupted by a ping ping ping.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Exactly. And and like people now, like when you call somebody, it's almost like they they expect that you get their permission before you call them.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

You know, it's such a weird job line offline.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah, so you just, you know, the the the way to get around that is you just and by the way, the Asians have this figured out Malaysians, Asians, Singapore, like all of them, voice messages all the time. All they'd ever do is send voice messages. They're not typing. It's it's you it's worthless to type. I can say this in three seconds. It can take me 30 to type it. And also, when I'm typing it, I'm you know, I'm triggering that response that is going to make me want to look at X, look at Instagram, look at something else, you know, and just continue to distract me.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, gosh, I I remember years ago uh doing some internet marketing course, and in and the fellow taking it was uh talking about setting up a dashboard. And since then I've always just wanted one inbox. Just give me like all of the different accounts, like just give me one inbox so that I can do messages in batch, like you're talking about. I would love to.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

That's nice to I think I think nicer is what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Yeah, it's lovely that we're talking about focus with do not disturb or silent. I am pretty determined with turning notifications off and unsubscribing. Probably 10 plus years ago, I read something about unsubscribing and like how little amount of time it takes versus how much impact it has, and it's a big impact versus low impact to unsubscribe.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

By the way, my favorite Saturday morning activity is to get up, have a cup of coffee, and unsubscribe from things. Just it, just so called out. I'm just gonna have just gonna have less crap coming my way. And you're right, like it does take, you know, and they make that you know, they intentionally make the process difficult sometimes to unsubscribe. If it takes you two minutes, then you're probably gonna gain that two minutes back in the next week from not being triggered by notifications of things that you're not looking at them, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

And back to the refinement that I think is going to come through this next wave of technology, people are gonna get more and more refined as to what they need to look at. I I hope that we do another one of these because I've so much enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah, let's just do another one. Yeah, I would just say just to that, like take advantage of the information that's presented to you in order to gain a new perspective, because the majority of like social media content is designed to generate engagement, and your engagement is 10 times stronger for something you disagree with than for something you agree with, and so people are incentivized to you know try to rile you up. And so all when when all you see is things that you disagree with, uh, all you're doing is solidifying your one position, you know, like you're making yourself very fragile in case you're wrong, like you're making yourself very subject to being disrupted, you're making yourself very uh weak to outside forces that could that you know that if if you're wrong, it means you're wrong in a very big way. So yeah, strong opinions loosely held is a very good uh thing to keep in mind. Other people can be right because they often are, and uh and you carry with you all the biases that you've ever had that you're unaware of. Perspective is the thing that you don't know about it until it changes. So that's what I leave you with, I guess. Go outside, put your phone down, leave your phone down. Spend weekends without your phone. This is not an abnormal thing to do. When you drive somewhere, mark out the directions on a piece of paper, don't follow the GPS all the time. It's amazing how it will change your experience because you'll actually pay attention to what's around you. I have a Tesla, so that's even worse, right? Like I just it drives itself, but I'll take over. And but like here, I'm out camping and I've driven this path probably it's like 12 miles. I've driven it probably 30 times already. And yesterday was the first day I did it. I literally took my jacket and I put it over the screen in the Tesla so I couldn't see it at all. And I noticed everything. I noticed everything as I drove, things that I was completely unaware of along that path. So that's the thing, is like if you if you shut the screen off, you'll start to notice things in your life, and those things don't appear by chance, they are part of your story. I do believe that there is some spiritual thing involved with it as well, and I think that there are signs that you're being shown. But you won't see those signs if you're not looking. So shut off the screen and look for signs. Actually, don't look for signs, you'll know them when they come.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

What a beautiful way to end.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Thanks for listening to the Natural Genius Podcast. Please share this with anyone who came to mind and visit us at naturalgenious.com.au. Thanks so much.