Meet a Courtroom Insider

Court is one of those workplaces everyone thinks they understands until you talk to someone who has actually sat inside it for 20 years. Our anonymous guest takes us from her early detour into teaching to a long career in the courthouse, including 18 years in the courtroom and a newer leadership role supervising data entry and phone intake. Along the way, we get specific about the work. We also dig into how the justice system changes over time. We talk about courtroom realities like negotiated plea deals, the role of probation recommendations, and how judge discretion shows up in bail and sentencing decisions.

If you like real workplace stories with practical insight, subscribe, leave a review, and share this with someone who loves the truth behind “official” narratives. What part of the courthouse would you want to see from the inside?

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Transcript

Welcome And What We Do

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors. I'm Elsa Barbie. And I'm Don Andrews. We have been friends since sixth grade. Somewhere between a car wash job, a few questionable boy choices, and 40 years of friendship, we became the kind of people who always want to know what was really going on, including at work.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Don spent 25 years as an employment lawyer digging into workplace drama from the inside out. I built a long career in the beauty industry as a bracket educator with a few TV cameos sprinkled in for fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

We came up in very different industries, but we have the same passion. Meeting new people and asking how they got their jobs, what they love, what they can't stand, and what happens behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Every episode we talk to a new cast about their lived experience in the world of work. And because our casting anonymous, they can spill the truth without the fallout.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

We get into the choices they make, the tiny cruelties, the surprise kindnesses, and some of the moments that never make it into human resources reports.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Equal parts informative and tibbling. This show serves up all the tea while honoring the incredible, complicated, often messy work people are doing across the industries and across the map. Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors. Let's get into it.

From YMCA To The Courthouse

SPEAKER_02 1:46

And I just took money for the participants who wanted to swim. And how long did you last there for? Oh that that was only a temporary job, like three months.

unknown 1:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah. And what do you currently do? Currently I'm a data supervisor.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

We take in anywhere from complaints from different law enforcement agencies and we input them and send out the defendants' dates, times, fines, all that. Answer questions. Yeah, that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

And that's for a court system.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah. And they can set up to see the judge. They can elect to just pay their fines, do community service, however, which way they choose. This is good.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Great. So tell us your journey. What got you from working at the YMCA to your current title? We want to know your whole entire career journey.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

The YMCA was just a monthly job. I was, I would say, working in college. I played some sports, so that was basically my job. And then the following like four years of college, I graduated and I got into teaching and then pretty much started not so much enjoying that. And I just looked for something relatable to my major. And yeah, I found the job at the courthouse and started there. And within a couple years, I became courtroom, like a courtroom assistant, and then became supervisor thereafter. So that's how it led to that.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

What did you teach?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I did some long-term substituting, and it was in geometry, algebra, and yeah, just some basic classes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Cool. And then can we ask you what sports you were taught you were working? You were playing?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Softball.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah. Okay. Cool. So what was it about the path that you're currently on that made you realize that, yeah, I want to work for the court systems, even though we know you weren't happy at your teaching job, but what was it about the court systems that drew you in?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Just fairness of the constitution, everyone's rights, and yeah, being informed citizens. Yeah, that's all it should always be interesting to us. We have our rights to vote.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And uh you are speaking Dawn's language right now. Dawn was a lawyer, she still is a lawyer, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yes. We've worked with many attorneys, and yeah, it should be highly regarded. We have one of the best legal systems in the world, and yeah, that others are envious of.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Can I ask why you didn't go right into the court system and you went by teaching first, then into the court system of what you do now?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

I wanted to teach like political science. So I think that's more aligned to our legal system or our branches of legislative branch, judicial branch branch, executive branch, but that's more aligned to what I was learning in college, and so I just wanted to carry on that. But math as is a a highly, it's highly recruited. They're recruiting all the time for math, and unfortunately, that wasn't something that I really wanted to do. They had made me a math leader, just basically we would get groups together every week, and I would basically put on a meeting, an agenda, have an agenda, and talk about any issues that we were having, how we were gonna align to California standardized testing, and it's called STARS, I think at the time, and it was just so much I felt. Um that wasn't really the path for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

How many years have you been working in the court system?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

20. 20, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

20

How Court Work Changed Over 20 Years

SPEAKER_03 6:39

years? Wow. Okay, we have to ask the obvious question then. How has it changed? Not just your role, but just the things that you see going on in the courthouse from 20 years ago to today, that's a very long time.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah, you know what's crazy is that the laws are ever changing. That's why it's so important to vote. We vote on the laws that are enacted, and the laws unfortunately have becoming have been becoming more lenient and less time. So what happens in the court system is we have to adjust to those laws that are now being voted on and implemented, and that could be reconfiguring sentencings. That's what we did for a long time, is like a recommitment, basically, less time for oh, a good example is marijuana. A lot of uh marijuana in the 70s uh was high crime, many years of imprisonment, and now it's like an infraction, and uh depending on your jurisdiction. So a lot of just that is the probably the biggest thing I've seen. And going from state prison to jurisdictional of county prison, that's a big change because of the overcrowding of state prisons, and especially California, and many other states have that as well. But yeah, that's just it's also interesting, and yeah, and just the high crime, honestly, of juveniles that's changed so much over the years. It's really sad.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

It's increased then juvenile crime.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Oh, absolutely. It's not so much increase, is that because you always have a lot of juveniles too in crime, but it's the type of crime like carrying guns. You wouldn't see so much of that maybe about 15 years ago, and now it's just another crime of the day, or things of that sort. And I feel like there's more murders, I would say, especially nowadays, or it just seems like it's all the rage and maybe domestic violence as well. I could say it was probably more hidden. Now there's many more laws that you can still hold a person to that has committed a crime of domestic violence, where as before, if the victim wanted to dismiss the case, they had that right, they still have the right to say that, but prosecution can still proceed without that victim's uh request to proceed.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

So are you responsible for the civil side and the criminal side?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Oh no, it's just basic infractions, could be like dog off the leash or things of that sort. So not even misdemeanors. Yeah. I for 18 years though, I was in the courtroom. So that's where I saw most of that change.

Juvenile Crime And Domestic Violence Shifts

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

I can't wait for a big money question just to know that you're in the court.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Maybe before we move on too far, would you share what you were doing in the courtroom during the 18 years that you were in there?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Oh, yeah, just basically like a courtroom clerk, we take everything down of what happened, anything we need to process, abstracts and whatnot, issuing warrants, but basically keeping the minutes of what happened in that case.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Okay. So you spent a lot of time around judges.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Oh, yes, every day. Yeah. Yeah, and then jury trials, too. That was probably more fun, but very tedious as well, a lot more work. But yeah, so we get to see everything. Yeah, it's it's I always think if you're gonna be an attorney, you should be a courtroom clerk because you will learn so much, not only of all the proceedings, but of how judges rule on their emotions. If you're gonna be in that jurisdiction, that'd probably be the best internship. Yeah, that sounds like kind of like in federal court, you have your law clerks. Well, we're like the mini law clerk clerks, but we don't need any law school

Life As A Courtroom Clerk

SPEAKER_02 11:05

training.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah. But what does a day in your life look like now? Because we have a lot of listeners who probably don't know anything about the court system, what you do, how important of a job it is.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Now it's a little bit different. I just have this recent promotion, and it's it's basically supervising the data entry to the phone, like intake of phone calls. They have like with infractions trial by declarations, things of that sort, accepting the citations and putting them into our system to upload and all the details that surround that. There's a lot of tedious details, returning citations that officers write incorrectly. Yeah, just an array, and everything's

A New Promotion And Daily Work

SPEAKER_02 11:58

electronic, so everything that's done over the phone can be done by computer, which a lot of people choose to do. So a lot of it is just going into the system and our into our emails and just basically looking up whatever the question is that they have and emailing the feedback with feedback and ex parties, which is communication with the judge, similar to what I did in the courtroom. They have a special request basically, and an after the fact, or like they've forgotten, oh, I wanted traffic school or something. Like, can I still ask for it after they've paid a certain amount? Little things like that come up. Yeah, just everything from the ground up, basically.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

How many people do you have working for you right now?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Right now, about seven.

unknown 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

It's a lot smaller.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Congratulations on your promotion.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Do you miss doing what you did for your first 18 years versus what you do now?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Absolutely, yeah. Like I said before, it's just like I don't have to turn on the newspaper. I don't have to turn on the news because I know what's happening and I know the facts of it. A lot of times, journalism, especially here in the valley, they get everything really twisted and yeah, they don't know the facts of the case. And a lot of the uh I would say like rookie journalists, they unfortunately don't know the legal system that well. So to write about it is something completely different. Although some of them are pretty good. Yeah, I've got to know a few of them doing doing some union work. And yeah, some of them are good. It's just the majority that you read is where are they getting this information from? I'm pretty factual and logical. I like that the court system is set up in a way that only facts are allowed in with evidence and whatnot. I just I really enjoyed what I do, and the downside is there's some really ugly cases too that will always haunt me. And there's like exhibits get seen and you can't unsee them. Yeah, really horrible events, murders and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

So, what kind of skill set does one need to have to do something like that? Like your job?

SPEAKER_02 14:26

I definitely a multi- and I think college educated people might be multitaskers, but not all of them are. But I think that's a good asset to have is some multitasking just grammar when it comes to minutes. So it just I know with judges, it would make their lives easier. Knowledge of the law. Of course, like I I grew up with it and uh like the classes that I took in college are very helpful. I actually took the history of law too, and that was really cool on just some of the major cases of what sets precedents and uh why certain laws are ruled on the way they're ruled on, and yeah, just I think college definitely was key in working with people, of course, because it is a political head that you're basically answering to, and with that comes extreme professionalism, and so either some sort of skill set with a type of law office, a paralegal, legal studies, something I think would be helpful. But yeah, on the job experience as a paralegal or some a law clerk of something of that sort of or a clerk for a lawyer, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

What's the very best part of your job now?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Now before it was more individual, and now it's definitely more teamwork. Everyone has assets and to work efficiently and effectively, and yeah, just bringing that together to help the whole that's pretty gratifying.

Skills Needed And Team Challenges

SPEAKER_01 16:27

And of course, what's the hardest part of your job?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

The personalities, a lot of them have been there for a long time, so yeah, there comes a lot of issues with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

You you mentioned a couple minutes ago about the political environment of obviously in the court system. Could you elaborate on that? What is the political part of it?

SPEAKER_02 16:52

So you have some really tenured judges there. I guess you'd say that they're judges for reasons and they might be more favorable to opposition than let's say other judges. Some where I would see some judges as very disciplined, very strict, very regimented. Sentences like in cases can vary. So you might give one one person some slack and maybe get probation, where another judge might give them, I don't know, let's just say a couple years prison time. That is dependent on the judge and where they see this person, along with what the probation officer recommends as well. But there's not a lot of open plea, they call them open pleas when they go in front of the judge for their sentencing. A lot of them are negotiated deals with the prosecutor, so there's not a lot of movement from that unless something is very drastically different known from the plea deal to the sentencing.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Got it. Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, yeah, there's like I I could tell you some judges are extremely strict on DUIs, some judges are very strict on DUIs and domestic violence. And like in regards to the initial hearings, we're setting bails. Some judges set the bail with what they believe

Judge Discretion Pleas And Bail

SPEAKER_02 18:40

is the correct way of setting the bail where someone has drank above the alcohol, like maybe three times above the alcohol limit. So they would set the bail higher. Or if depending on if there was like a hit and run, they're more of a loss for words danger, they're more of a danger to society, so therefore that allows them to set the bail higher. They just have to take into all consideration all the scenarios as well, their financial assessment, along with everything else, other standards of restrictions, such as a alcohol monitor and stuff like that. Anyhow, I'm just going very deep into all these things, but yeah, so the politics of that some judges set the bail low, and some with certain charges set them very high, such as your DIs or your domestic violence.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

So some judges crack down more harshly on certain crimes rather than others because it matters to them personally.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

I don't know if it matters to them personally, but I would say that's the type of politics of your of a person's agenda could be on I'm gonna show the community that what I believe is more of a danger in our society. And I do think that stems from our culture here, especially when in our jurisdiction here, that is more prevalent. And I believe that's type of politics.

AI And The Jobs It Replaces

SPEAKER_03 20:26

How is artificial intelligence impacting your job at all, if at all?

SPEAKER_02 20:31

So that's so a lot of our complaints are that are filed, they'll get sent to a different AI agency, basically. And everything's just inputted via AI, and it's taken away several jobs of data entry basically. So definitely there, but that's about the only part AI has really I would say impacted to a negative negatively.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Do you feel now with using AI feels like a limited basis now?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Do you feel like it has potential to make a bigger impact in the court systems?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

I don't think so. I don't think AI will it might help a little bit more, but definitely won't take away because people seem to always change their minds, and AI can't go in and change a computer and refund money and do things of that sort of nature. I don't see it doing that yet, actually, but yeah, who knows? Probably no one saw AI doing what they're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah.

Staffing Shortages And Leading With Integrity

SPEAKER_01 21:55

If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about your industry. What would it be?

SPEAKER_02 22:05

That's a good question. I would oh, I would definitely employ more. I would employ more workers because for what little it seems that we only need, it's just it's barely getting by. So I feel that more people would help us. I think it would just help us regulate everything better and be better in customer service as well. Yeah, definitely more people would allow that.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

What gets in the way?

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Ultimately I'm sorry?

SPEAKER_03 22:51

I was gonna go ahead, finish your answer.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Oh no, it ultimately bring in more revenue as well, which is always the big picture for any industry.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Revenue from citations and bail and things like that?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, criminal cases, payments, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

What gets in the way when maybe you want to hire more employees? What who determines whether you can hire or not?

SPEAKER_02 23:22

It's definitely my boss and numbers is what I've heard determines that. So I've yet to see that, experience it. But yes, that's what I've heard so far. Cause and effect, I'm assuming. I would hope.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Is there anything personally that you would change about your industry?

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Personally. That you can see that you if you can make a change today in what you I don't know if I'd say change, but I personally want to be the positive leader and just exemplary to others about coming to work with joy and integrity and organization skills. I would yeah, I've been changing that so far, organizing just every little thing I can. Everything has a place and everything's in its place. Yeah. Yeah, that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

So you know, I'm sure from just living in the world that lawyers don't have the best reputation. I'm curious what impressions you have of lawyers after 20 years of being in and around them all the time.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yes, it's a whole array of them. I know some excellent attorneys, most of them women actually, and some that are just getting by, and I've seen some mid 80-year-old attorneys, and they're amazing. I know. They still go to trial and win. And it's just oh wow, I've been super blessed with some really great company and close-knit company, and yeah, you can tell when someone is barely past the bar, and whereas you have other attorneys that are I've used to work in a lot of different departments, our family law division. We know the ones that are taking the money and wanting continuances, we know which ones are super prepared, we know the ones that are not prepared and but can stand on their feet like they're prepared, which is interesting as well. I think standing on your feet and when you're not prepared is actually really key because you can pick up on things that are said in court. Whereas other ones where you're really prepared, you can do that sometimes, but yeah, there's it's tricky. A lot of the attorneys, it's tricky, and that's just family law, and then criminal. I know who's gonna win that case if that goes to trial. Wow. Um yeah, I know a lot of the attorneys that can plea deal very well and get their defendants less time, and it's all negotiations, and so you know, yeah, we know the attorneys that work really well with prosecutors and hardly go to trial, and but are still fair to their clients as well. But yeah, just a whole array I could go on like all day about attorneys and and what type of law to yeah.

What Court Staff Learn About Lawyers

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Was there ever a moment in your career that you just realized maybe this isn't for me?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

No, I really enjoyed just doing what I've done for so long. The capacity that I'm at right now, I guess we'll see. But yeah, I really enjoyed what I used to do, and I do love this change as well. But if I don't love this change in a few months, then hopefully I can go back to what I used to do. As long as there's an opening for it, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

What is the wildest, weirdest, or most unforgettable thing that you've witnessed at work? And if you have more than one story, we would love that one too.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I would say I don't know if it's the weirdest, but the scariest is we had a defendant just go completely crazy and just start hitting himself in a flurry of anger and just put us on our feet because we were we didn't know what they were gonna do, and yeah, the adrenaline rush of that defendant was just so crazy that uh it was just sight to see, abnormal. But I guess it would also be something that's always ingrained in my mind is that a baby was bit by his own parent and put in a microwave, and I'll just never forget that site. Yeah, it's like the worst thing you can think of. And I believe he was on on drugs. I j I can't remember, but I just will never get that out of my mind. Oh god, oh yeah, yeah, so it's good that I'm not there anymore. Yeah, that one really shook me.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

But were you in the courtroom when Blood Deer was going on when they were examining potential jurors and placing them?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

I was curious if you heard really funny excuses from jurors.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Everything. I have to take care of my puppy, so I can't be here. Just you name it. I I don't think there's anything just I don't think it's crazy, but a lot of them take medication and they are really sleepy, so they're like, I cannot pay attention to this trial.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

And they admit it at front?

SPEAKER_02 29:55

They do like nothing. And like one of them admitted marrow smoking marijuana because it's medicinal for some of them, and where they're like, okay, next what is that, swiping right, or would it be swiping left?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

But no, like no, like court cases that you're like, I how do people even behave this way?

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Like in family law, they're fighting over vacuums, like who's gonna get custody of the vacuum and or property of the vacuum.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

And it's probably a Dyson, so I ended up.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

It's probably expensive. Probably. No, yeah, they're yeah, they're fighting for that. It's pretty expensive, but no, just the craziest things, they'll have a list of different things. It could be artifacts, heirlooms, and they'll they're fighting for it and the money, and then it's basically I think it's like you have to put the amount that the resale or the whatever you can get for it at a yard sale, reasonable, something like that. Not even too much, but yeah, I don't get it. That would make my back crawl. I can't believe you're fighting over this.

unknown 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

When I was in law school, no, when I was in undergrad, I interned or whatever at a law, family law office because I thought, oh, juicy facts, maybe I'll be a family law attorney. And we had to shut down the office one day because there was a bomb threat, and it was a bomb threat between a couple that because they were fighting over a pair of jeans. One pair.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah, no, yeah, crazy things. I can see like a car or something that has some sort of resale value, but or the pets. I know pets always suffer.

The Scariest Moments And Juror Excuses

SPEAKER_01 31:57

So just by interviewing you, I feel like you have a really nice even temperament about you. And with the horror stories that you've shared with us, how do you come home at the end of your day and turn off?

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah, we have to ask yourselves like, how do people get that way? And honestly, I have my faith and I do believe that God not that people do bad things for a reason, but it's like that question, like a psychology question is like, why does God let bad things happen? But our I believe in I'm Christian and God gives us free will, and evil can come in and we can not do the right thing, and these people have not done that and need to pay for their punishment, and I do believe in that, and it's like a Roman law that's passed on, what our laws based off of, and I do believe in the justice system and but treating everyone humanely and given our rights, like I said before. I guess that's how it plays out in my head that even though that we're around all these people that would be criminals, they still have their rights as well. And I think that just plays into what who God is he's ever loving, and it doesn't say that we shouldn't pay for our punishment, but we should be treat treated fairly. So that fits into that.

Coping With Trauma Faith And Justice

SPEAKER_00 33:44

What's the one lesson that you've learned the hard way in your career?

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Not to mix with your friends and business basically each has its place and not to be scared to feel that you are you can't basically do your job and yeah, the yeah, you have to be careful who you're a friend with basically.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

But I I feel like you're speaking from experience.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Not so much. I kind of keep to myself with work and all, but it has the potential, and I've seen the potential that it can create a blurred line, and yeah, it's never good.

unknown 34:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Sorry.

Boundaries At Work And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Okay. So I just I can't help but think, like in my internal corporation, there are tons of happy hours going on, and everybody's like on the even playing field. I feel with the court system, as in there's different hierarchies of judge, lawyer, public defender, clerk, mature, whatever, correctional office, probation officers, all those. Do you see gatherings like that as far as do groups go to happy hour together? And I'm asking this question because you alluded to not hanging out with people after and not making sure that they're your friends and your coworkers. But do you see that as far as mingling between the different types of roles? What's the next step for you?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Next step, hopefully retirement. I don't know. I don't know if there's gonna be a next step. A few more years and I can retire.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Good for you. What keeps you going when the work gets tough?

SPEAKER_02 35:47

I don't know, just not quitting and I have my family, and that's who I get to come home to. That's why I'm working. Great.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Thank you so much for spending your time with us. We would like to thank you and now tell you that you have officially joined the ranks of the brave and the bold. Thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Thank you. It's a pleasure. That's it for this week's confession. We've laughed, cringed, and maybe questioned our own career choices.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Big thanks to our anonymous guests for keeping it real and reminding us that behind every job title is a story worth telling.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

If you've got a workplace confession of your own, we're all ears, hit us up at our email address.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share. Your support helps us keep the secrets flowing.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Until next time, keep your badge clean, your coffee's strong, and your story's wild. This is Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.